Kelly Clarkson

Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to our chair.

Exvert. I'm Dax Randall Shepherd. I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman. Good morning to you.

Good morning. We have one of the great singers of our lifetime. Oh my God. She's unreal powerhouse.

Kelly Clarkson. She is a Grammy award-winning singer and Emmy award-winning talk show host. She has many great albums, but she has a new one out right now called Chemistry, which has a cool origin of why she made the album. The album's tracking every single moment in the, what do we call it?

The Star Cross lovers, the, the endorphins, the high, that ride you take. Yes. Yes. Yes.

And in case everyone forgot, because I do think it's easy to forget. But we all know she's great. Yeah. But you forget.

And then the other day, which was sort of some a song of hers. This has happened to me two or three times since we interviewed. Oh my God. Where I'm like, Oh, God, that's right.

She's a, I want to play a little bit. Okay. Unbelievable. Her voice.

Oh, so, so good. And she can let her rep. She can belt it out. You're going to love this.

She's so fun and down to earth and cool. Please enjoy Kelly Clarkson. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online from websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics. Squarespace gives you everything you need to build and grow your presence in one place.

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And when you're ready to launch, use Go Dax to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. I just got back from my ranch. I live sometimes in Montana when I can get there. Okay.

Yeah, because I heard you were going national. In fact, on your late. That's what she just said. Why'd you sell that place?

We had to kind of pick because of the talk show, not the voice so much. It didn't make sense to keep it. And so we had to move. It was kind of a huge house, we didn't need that big of a house.

It was the big house. Yeah. I think we got it. It's such an incredible deal because unfortunately, the person went under.

Okay, wonderful. This is Monika. Monika. Hi, Monika.

They're nice to see you. Yeah. So how many years did you have that house because I got to tell you are experienced with this, which was we bought kind of blindly. We saw a lot we liked.

The lake looked nice from where we were at. But then, I was like, this lake might be terrible. We went out on a boat. Got a tour from a great dude, Tony that lives down there.

And we saw Johnny Cassians burn down house. I've done that door right. Are you going to play server writers? Like, here's Johnny Cassians burned down.

Yes, and I don't, it worked for me. I was like, oh my God, that's so cool. It would have to be a complete turn of a lake for me, not to be into it, because I just love water. Me too.

Like, and I love lakes more than oceans, because sharks aren't in it. Yeah. Also, you went in the morning and the water's flying. It's so beautiful.

Yeah, we've kayaked on it. We only got to do that a few times, because when we moved into that house, we got married and had kids right away. All the fun things you do when you're in love and don't have children. Yes.

We didn't really have that time, because he also had two older kids. So we did a few things that were fun there, but I'm going to find out the name of it. The coolest thing to do in Nashville, though, isn't even right there. It's like an hour away.

They drive you up, you get on the boat, and you just float down a river, and it's so peaceful. And it's beautiful. On a canoe or a tube. I think you can do whatever you want, but they do kayaks.

But it's so fun. And your car's down where you bring a boat. Yeah, there's some really cool stuff. Would you go out on the lake a lot?

My ex loves toys. And I do too, so I can't throw him under the bus. I'm more of a jet ski person. I was in a jet ski, and he's like wave runner boat.

That kind of stuff. Okay. Did you buy the place after the 2008 collapse? Yes, that's why we got in the short sell.

Yeah. And then you sold it, and you did wonderful. You made a bunch of money out of magic. We made money on, I think.

But here's the thing that happens with me. We thought it would be our forever home. Yes, of course. And we had a farm out in Gallatin, which is like 50 minutes away from the house.

I have the same plan. So, okay, so we had a farm, a little orchard, chickens. We have all the thing there, and then we had the lake house. And he had older kids, was married before, so we had to stay there.

So, we knew it was going to be kind of our forever home, right? And so, we spent so much money. Remodeling it. Yes.

And making it perfect. Yeah. It looked perfect when we pulled up on the boat. Boy, it should look nice.

All white. Yeah, all white. It was, yeah. I'm looking at a lot of money on that.

And I can tell my business managers, I was like, what is our forever home? And I'm like, now I'm like in Montana. Am I forever home? And I'm like, what is my forever home?

So, but I'm very low-key on my own. I think when you're with someone, maybe from their experience of life, you just do things bigger than you normally do. My ranch on Montana, I live in a tiny two-bedroom cabin. You have to go sideways to walk around the bed, kind of.

Small. You live in a country album from the 30s. Yeah. But it's wonderful.

I think more intimate is more vibe, because I think that you start learning the bigger you get, the more shit you have to take care of. The more shit. Also, people can hide. Oh, I thought you went like Dateline special.

Like, people are jumping out hiding in your house? I was like, wait, what? No, no, no. I remember watching this great documentary about one of the most legendary, I forget what dude it was.

He did acid therapy. And a lot of people want to be, and I'm one of them. It's his famous. Not Clark Gable, not Fred Astaire, but along those lines.

I'll remember it as we go. He said that they kept moving into bigger houses. And he said what he didn't like about him is that everyone was away from each other. Yeah.

He was so big that people would be in different corners. And you're kind of not living alone. Yeah. I built one bedroom cabins like right next to it when my family comes.

We're all over each other. But it's kind of cool. You're on top of each other. It's only for a little bit because you're on vacation, so it's not for that long.

But it's cool because you all end up watching the same movie. You all end up playing games. You all end up talking. All the memories are shared from the whole experience.

And like that national house that you saw, it was a mini mansion. It was literally like 22,000 square feet. Yeah, that's enormous. Like it's ridiculous.

But we got it for such a great deal. And we had to do it. And we were like, all right, I was not happy that we were leaving Nashville to come to Los Angeles. I love things about Los Angeles that are incredible.

Living here is not one of them. So I've lived here poor. I've lived here rich. Okay.

Every kind of way in every part on the beach. I've lived in the hills. I've lived in the hotels. I've lived in now studio city.

You've been at the college drive. I've given it the college effort. Yes. Although I haven't, I didn't hear Los Felas in there.

Los Felas is one of the places I did want to. But my ex was really interested in that. So we went in Cino because it was like more family. But then you spent your whole time in the car.

Arriving. Yeah. I live literally a song away from the studio. I don't work there anymore now because we're in New York.

But I moved us to where we were like, you could listen to one song. Oh, that's. That doesn't happen here. No.

Well, for me, I walk across my yard. What you're saying about Forever Home, I'm renovating a house across the street actually. And I just had a meeting yesterday. And yeah, you're making these huge decisions with the idea that like, well, I'm going to be here forever.

You don't know. And you don't know. It's scary. The one thing I do know is Montana.

Just because I'll never sell the land. Even for my children's purposes. Also, you just don't know. But I think people start evaluating whether they're going to stay there forever based on the actual place when you're much better off just looking at your own history.

If you're somebody who's moved your whole life, guess what? You're probably going to move your whole life. I don't move. I hate it.

We move so much as a kid. I always had a different bedroom. I couldn't stand it. I've been as a kid too, but I think I'm with the opposite of you.

So I do love change in general. I embrace it. I just think because you only have so much time on this planet and I like to experience things. Yes, I'm with that.

I have wanderlust, but I need my nest. I am with you with like roots. She had a hole. Like I was so sad during this horrible divorce of mine.

You're pointing to your friend. Yes, pointing to your friend. I was so sad because I was just really dark, very sad, and she brought over this giant car and drew a match. She was like, where do you think you'd beat?

I need roots, so I get that. I like to wander. We just went to Italy last month. I like going places.

I like roots. I was like, whole map, I was like a little vision board thing or whatever. It made me happy. And Montana, it's that for me.

So, tell me what you dislike about LA? It's not just LA, but I will say the people. No, it's a season. I grew up in Texas.

I'm used to four full seasons. The Valley is very similar to Texas heat. So that sucks. I miss rain, I miss spender storms.

We're both from Michigan. Monies from Georgia. So yes, we all miss seasons and we miss dramatic weather, which is so fun and romantic and inspiring. It is It is.

Yeah, it's a whole mood. Were you ever a cigarette smoker? Never smoked Cuz those thunderstorms are the best time to crack a window and smoke in your car. Yeah, I've never well won a singer Yes, that's the obvious.

I was a kid. I have an allergy to it as well. My father smoked. I believe I remember something happening I was very young.

I had like some kind of like a tack with that So I don't enjoy the art of that. Are you a rule of follower or were you are we playing a board game? Yeah? I'm annoyingly like that is not how you play You're the enforcer.

Yeah, I don't like my much eaters, but in life I feel like I'm a good healthy mix. I feel like I'm kind and respectful enough to follow the rules But I think that I'm also like I just want to do it. So I'm gonna do it. Yeah.

Yeah, I think you take your moments Okay, let's go back to Fort Worth 1981 81 82 you're aging me It's really a complex my wife. It was like I think you guys are same. I think you're one you're one you're younger But you're two years younger. I think as it turns up.

She's 80 No, she just feels So Fort Worth 1982 now I've spent some time in Fort Worth what year 92 93 94 95 Okay, those are good years. I worked for General Motors and we would regularly have truck shows at Billy Bob's I've performed a Billy Bob course you have one of my favorite memories was working at Billy Bob's then went to a water burger Did you go in time in the break? I'm 30 at night. This is real of the six employees three were shirtless sure yeah This hot as fucking Hades.

Yeah, it feels like God's here And when I ordered I said I'll have a water burger for you know extra mayonnaise no onions or something and the dude over the intercom He's like what a burger no fucking onions extra fucking mayonnaise swearing over the intercom and I'm like this is heaven No other shirts on there swearing over the intercom so memorable The thing about Texas I think it's full of towns and I've always been never the bricks, but the sticks so I'm from those kind of people Yeah, it's very low-key and down to earth and then there's the debut taunts Yeah, whole sea oil money the other side. Yes, you're not old enough to have seen urban cowboy I have you bud and sissy. Yes, and they were always at Billy Bob's I think I saw it so long ago, but a big subplot was like y'all these old money rich fancy women It's literally it's literally night and day you cross the railroad tracks. It's a completely different story.

Yeah now What did your mom and dad do? I'm not sure what my father did I didn't grow up with him you were six when they got Yeah, and I don't remember I don't know how people remember that far back I remember like certain things, but I don't remember him. He wasn't in your life at all after that No, what's curious is you guys split up the whole family, right? Like so you stayed with mom your brother went with your dad and then your sister went with your aunt Yes, you're gonna have to explain that to me.

Yeah, you're gonna have to explain that to me No, having children changed my entire perspective on my childhood of course I remember being just pregnant with River my first and going I can't fathom not being a part of her life Just seeing who she's gonna be when you don't know any differently, you know, you grow up And I was just used to not it's your normal. It was my norm Like I just didn't have one it wasn't like a cry every night or anything. Yeah, my parents were worse at three I didn't want to get back together. I didn't care about it.

I do remember. I did not want them to get back together It was not a happy. Yeah, I remember that much. Did you see your brother?

Not really? I saw him like a couple times. Wow, my sister a couple times I feel like I really kind of met him when I was 17 or 18 and we went up there to Alaska Oh, he lived in Alaska. Yeah, my brother's a decade older than me.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and my sister is seven and a half years I live me. I was very much an accident save the marriage probably child, right? You know, so your sister was then 13 and a half or 14 when the divorce happened.

Why did she go to live with your aunt? She didn't first I don't remember this really but they lived with us for a little bit and the divorce I think hit them a lot harder than it hit me even like my daughter and my son. They're only 22 months apart But boys, they're a little slower. We can say it.

No, they're dumb. No, he's actually really intelligent. He's dumb. I'm sorry.

He's really intelligent. Why is he sneaky? You think he's not paying attention and he's being aloof and then he'll bring it up like a month later And I'm like, I'm sorry. What?

Yeah, yeah, so he's kind of sneakily smart But our divorce hit them differently. My daughter's very intelligent very intuitive and she's eight and a half She's about to be nine in like days. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, well Jim and I super fun. I'm just kidding I don't know. I think it hit my siblings a lot harder. So they had a very different childhood teenage years I think your sister was resentful at your mom.

I don't know. I think my brothers like my daughter She'll still be like y'all are still gonna get back together, right? And I'm like no honey like it's and he I think always thought that was gonna happen I have two siblings. You have to the notion that we would have grown up separately is so crazy of a thought to me It's so normal to me.

Yes, I know but I'm trying to imagine how your mom was able to let two kids I don't know if there was a lot of choice in either way There was a lot of I mean when I say like hardcore things that they're like so I'm not gonna talk about it But like they had a very different experience like I was student council kid religion was beaten to me I was fearful of everything. I was a very good kid I didn't even drink until I was like legally able to drink and I was a waitress a cocktail waitress like 18 So like that's weird, but honestly not because I was like oh, I'm a good good year anything I just saw what alcohol did to certain people in my family and also smoking like with emphysema So I think that's why steer clear to stuff like that It wasn't really for any other reason I see how destructive that can be and if that's in our blood or if that can pass on somehow I don't want to be a part of that Yeah, yeah, I observed all that too and then thought that way and then at a certain point I was like no We're gonna try this and then it was as bad as I thought it would be Yeah, no, I know but like honestly sometimes I think some of us are like that too I have to do that with certain things you can tell someone to be blue in the face or they can watch a situation But some people have to experience that yes, that's a virtually what I told my mom I said look I get it. I'm high probability. I'm like eighth generation addict, but I gotta find out by myself There's no way I can just take everyone's word for it that's gonna happen and by the way, I had a great 10 years of being an addict And by the way, we're all addicts.

Oh sure exactly not everyone's a substance abuse Technology addicted to sugar they say sugar is more addictive than substances that you know you have partaken so sure you know I am worse than you It's harder. It's harder to quit. Yeah, anytime you're trying to regulate your internal feeling so some external shit Yeah, habitually and it's kind of destructive. You know that's an addiction I know it's so funny even on the TV show We have people on all the time that have taken tragedy and overcome that and like done some really amazing things right when they're talking about it They belittle that and it's like it's a human thing you find something that feels good.

You love it Why would you not want to jump in that? You know, I feel like people can take the approach of I know they're too elitist or I would never do that and I'm like Oh, don't say that it's either happening or it's gonna happen. I'm like don't say never Yesterday we were literally having it yesterday this exact conversation because I did say I would a hundred percent not do Trank. I am such a nerd.

What the hell is drink. Let me bring you up to speed. Let's go through so we had our opioid epidemic Obviously, we also have a benzo epidemic. It's a little quieter.

The new one is Trank It's some kind of equine tranquilizer that people started to do. Oh my god COVID as well It's probably the same thing and it heightens the sensation of the other drugs already addicted to but what it ends up is most people get abscesses And there's all these amputations that are happening all over the country Because it's very hard on your body to be shooting it up And I just saw a video of Philadelphia yesterday someone filming walking on the street There was over a hundred people that were fully tranked out and they're all sitting in the same weird slumped standing position Total zombie movie we were talking about that and then I said well I can a hundred percent say I'll never get addicted to Trank. Yeah, but then in talking about it We decided I can't say that she went it right now Certain things you can say you could be hickular manslaughter My child maybe I take that back. Yeah, there's a lot of scenarios in work.

Yeah, I will say though This is what I don't get about but you don't like my jacket. Oh my god. Yeah, that's one of them I don't get you I'm like, okay, what's going on? Yeah, it's not the fucking jacket.

What's happening I said I was never a hundred I get a hundred percent promise. I wouldn't go to jail for rape unless I was being falsely convicted But I know I can say that for certain that I'm not gonna do it. Yeah. Oh, I painted a scenario Here's the scenario, okay, the love of her life is Matt Damon luckily.

He's been here and kissed her on the head So Matt's over there having some cocktails. He gets too drunk. He passes out. He's gonna have to sleep here Oh, we shouldn't leave these shoes on him.

Let's get his shoes off. No, you're thinking you like a dude Exactly, that's what I said. I wouldn't even touch him. I know I know you can't show up in this mess brother figure.

Oh shit I mean my girlfriend is like my girlfriend's I gotta help her even get changed, but not a dude, okay What if the love of your life is over and he passes out the love of my life at some point has been completely drunk And I've done that to him and we still don't you weren't finding it attractive enough to then kiss him? Well, that's all I said was first issues would come off. Okay. She's obviously much better with these shoes.

Oh, and he's like, oh, no I'm sleeping denim jeans. He's all tight and uncomfortable. He's gonna wake up. He's gonna wake up.

Oh, give me out of these right now It's all defendable then she removes wakes up in his pants She takes the pants off. Oh, oh, we didn't know Matt Damon is a rod auger. He's riding He's riding raw. So now when the pants come off all of a sudden now we're confronted with Matt Damon's Peanut and we're gonna go near.

Yeah, he's passed out. We're not gonna go near him, but she's gonna stare for a while Oh my god, see we're getting more insight to you and Why don't you bad office a dude? I want to be able to have this hypothetical woman of all but with a dude if Monica Takes his pants off his ears. It's good for him.

She's a great lady brother. Let me high-five you Okay, what's the segue from Matt Damon's me? I've got a perfect one. Okay, no, but there's a couple of moments in your childhood and your early adulthood that are Very noteworthy and confusing to me.

So you start singing in church You're singing in a hallway a choir teacher asked you to join choir you can come up involved in choir in high school And now you're on a trajectory you turn down a full ride to UT I had an option if you've got a certain chair, right? So I did classical stuff so opera so and that was the only way I was gonna get money to go to college If you get to a certain point, which I think no one as a sophomore at that point had ever even done I'd already reached a point to where I could get scholarship like you and T You T especially Texas schools and Berkeley and Boston was one that I was really interested as well But I had a lot of older friends I watched every single one of my friends waste away the first year of their college and a lot of my friends their parents paid for everything I didn't have that option and a couple of them were music majors It just was not exciting to me So I did have a plan of doing that I worked at six legs over Texas and I did like the singing and dancing and I love the job Were you in a costume or anything? Totally while I was saloon Yes, very sexy I'm thinking of what's the Disney cowgirl? So sheriff Callie kind of like a cat This random girl in the show I didn't know her well.

We just met what it's a loose crowd that takes those jobs Honestly, it was a fun crowd. Yeah, it was a very random grouping of people. You're not up tight if you're performing it's like Great theme park. Yeah, she got let down a person was supposed to move to LA with her She wanted to be an actress they bailed out on her So she had to have somebody else cuz she couldn't afford it cuz it's expensive as hell to live here So I was just spontaneous and was like I'll go cuz I didn't really want to study what they were doing I didn't even want to do it in high school.

You can ask any choir teacher. I hated it That's not what I wanted to sing now. I'm very grateful for it because it's like any guitarist if it's a classical guitarist They can generally play any genre of music. Yeah, so I think if you have a classical foundation It does help you navigate other genres So I'm very thankful for that but it didn't make me happy and it wasn't fun And that's why I wanted to sing was to have fun and I liked writing I wanted a different pass So I randomly moved out to Los Angeles with this girl I hardly knew okay, so that's example one to turn down full rides to some great places the notion that I could have gone and lived in Austin For four years on a scholarship.

It would have been hard for me to I've been to Austin. I had people that live there. I've been in and out. I prize education But I don't really feel like that's necessarily the track for everyone.

This is coming by the way from a teachers kid So this was not an exciting notion. Yeah, I'm sure your mother was not delighted I also was the kid outside of high school doing theater things or opera things really anything to network to find anybody to help me I lived in a city where there was not a lot of help for what I wanted to do There was not a lot of opportunity Right, so I don't think she was shocked at all And I also firmly believe when you have nothing and I have like three or four jobs all the time Just because I had to pay my own everything and so when you have nothing to lose you go for everything And lived on a mattress. Did you take singing lessons or was just in choir in school? Basically quiet in school Yeah, took a few lessons in high school, but I couldn't afford that I only got like a few lessons and she was great But it was the same thing we were learning from Miss Glynn in choir So it's like, you know warm ups and how to take care of your voice properly and be able to sustain a whole show You already intuitively knew the difference between singing in your head voice in your chest all that I didn't know the technical like I'm a choir later than everybody else like I am not gonna be quiet Cut to totally a show choir Cut to all right, this is how I'm gonna get to college, which was ironic because I didn't go But that was the only option for me So I was way late to the game everybody already knew soulfage like the door I mean, but I knew it innately when you're in that situation and you realize everyone else around you knows more than you What type of person are you in that situation?

Do you eval yourself to advise or do you fake it until you make it? You pretend you know, I pretend I know just to be honest Well, so within the first month she separates us into like alto soprano soprano for the choir So it was one of the most embarrassing horrifying moments in my life But also then one of the ones that I was like oh wait She had us all around like a piano and we were doing scales right just to figure out where you were gonna vocally go And I was kind of at the front all this and I noticed it was just me singing and then this other girl on the other side And I was like, why are we the only one singing and we're total for sopranos So people just couldn't go and then she'd scaled down and we could go really low So at first I was horrified because I was new to this and I was embarrassed because I was like, why is everyone not singing? Yeah, and everyone can hear me and what do I sound like I'm only saying in church I wasn't the girl that I am now I was mortified and almost shit my pants and then everybody was like oh my gosh You have a really great range and then it turned into something that I felt special Yeah, which completely by the way changed my entire personality And especially if you don't ever feel special before that anytime a kid find discovering of a superpower Yeah, I feel like that's what's important with kids too Just in general just finding something that they latch on to that they feel empowered by it's so important I think it kept me out of trouble and definitely kept me not pregnant in high school Did you date in high school? Is that another earmarked thing that I heard you saying in an interview that I'm curious about?

Wait, what's the earmarked thing? Will you say that your album chemistry? Yeah, it's called chemistry because you had never experienced chemistry prior to your ex-husband. That is true I remember my first boyfriend.

Well, great. I was a sophomore and he was a senior and I'm gonna be honest with you He's a really nice guy, so I hate him talking about him But I did it really won a date. I was very focused on getting out of the town I was in he was kind of chasing me. We were in the same class.

He was very nice. Why not everybody dates So I was just like okay cool And so I did it was literally for like two months like it was nothing and I remember at the end of it I kept telling my friend because I had broken up and I was like you should date him He really liked me and I didn't feel that way I've had those moments I was praying the person I was with cheat on me like how they meet so much tonight at this bar Hope something happens. It's a guilt-free way for me to get right out of here. That sounds healthy.

Oh my god I'm gonna have had that feeling I think a lot of people. I think so. Yeah, I do too I think it's hard to listen I'd rather be broken up with them break up with somebody One hundred percent even if it's highly unhealthy not a good situation You should feel fine about it You still feel like a piece of shit you do because you can imagine loving someone that doesn't love you back What could be you said or in your responsible for that? I don't even think I was open to it.

It's a romance. Yeah, I think I was open to that kind of death of love What age did that click on honestly? I was singing with the rascal flats I think it was like two thousand six two thousand seven something like that the four years after idle Yeah, two thousand two hundred one. Yes So I was singing with rascal flats on this song and this guy like walks past me and I just got out of a I'd had a boyfriend for a few months like it was always that for me It was never longer than months I just was never in and I think because I never felt what I felt when this person passed me And when he passed me every thought that you could possibly have about someone on this show we say PQ's okay Oh, yes, we've had a couple different basketball players where Monica was like I was PQing like crazy.

It's overwhelming This was a PQ moment. Yes. Yes. It was this a role.

You can't help it can't deny it. It is No, that's why any of the album it's you cannot and there's like a song I called I hate love as well because it's like I hate it Cuz you cannot control you can't control it. Wait, who's this dude who walked my ex? Oh, no shit We just met that night for the first time and then I didn't run into him until like six years later Like we had randomly seen each other here and there a bit of detective work Just very basic which is I saw that one of your managers was named black stock two of my managers have been named like So presumably he's the son.

Well, he's definitely not Right, so my punches so you saw this dude and then at some what you're working with his dad not then okay I didn't realize they were related when I first met him Okay, when I went idle I kept begging for a freaking country week But they're a British owned company and they did not understand country music sure you're welcome carry under it I was like I just really wanted to see country music and so they surprised me in Vegas at this big Show at the end of idle with getting to sing with Reba cuz the song I wanted to see the managers married to Reba And your ex-husband's this doesn't really met him briefly. I didn't know him I didn't know his father. I found out the next week I was like I ran into this guy and it was so sad because I lived in LA at that time right after idle and one of my Friends knew somebody who knew him and he was like, oh, he's married and I was like, oh, are you serious? Cuz I didn't really talk too much, but I just saw him and I was like first around the PQ's and he's taken Yeah, and he was taken so I was like, oh, okay, and then I found out his dad was his dad was in his stomach So I was like, oh, okay, so we didn't even really run into the water until right around and then we didn't run into each other until like six years later That was percolating for a very long time.

I think once you feel the PQ's. Yes. You're like, I'm not going to settle. I love it.

I love it. I love it. I feel like it is I feel like it is a PQ But I think once you feel something like that you will accept nothing less huge problem It is I went on one date then the next date was him because I was like I want to wait for that feeling Yeah, I've never felt that before and it's exciting. Okay, great.

So we're here exactly where I did interpret it Or at least what I was suggesting was it's shocking to me that you would have made it to what were you 24 ish? We'll say yeah, it's not shocking when you're a person that really thought you were asexual for the longest time What I want to know about yeah, how are you explaining it because clearly your friends are like peeking off the EQ It felt for was because everybody was like, oh, I love this words I'm like you love somebody else last week feel fraudulent and honestly childhood issues I ran into my father again later in life and was like hey I live in a shack with my mom and you live in a really nice place And I ran into once because my friend made a trip out to the Los Angeles with her dad And I randomly came out my mom's like you have to see your father and I was like I don't know him But then I saw his life and I was like what the hell you don't like this We like salt for dinner. Yeah, I literally heard him say. Oh, honey.

You're your mom's doing I haven't I have another family now and like you know I'm saying like you hear that from someone that you've been told Yeah, so you don't really trust it you can't have a great opinion of men in general No, I do because I was very fortunate I was actually talking about this person the other day because he passed away and he's in his 90s It's fine He had a well of life But I had a pastor that was the turning point for me and he literally passed this past week And he was that guy that would cut out clippings of performances or things that I do and accomplish and he would just send it in a letter Saying we're so proud of you. Oh, so I was fortunately shown in other areas of my village what it could be and should be did you have Yes, yes more than one one you had one great. Your silence says a lot. Yeah, it does put your life on a path You can go either way, right?

So I have friends that have had similar upbringings and I think you go the way of what you've been shown or you know that You're worthy of better. Yes, but would you agree that it gives you a spidey sense, which is there's a new adult present He's presenting is this way. Oh when she's not here. He's not that person.

Oh, people are duplicitous The world is formed. It changes your worldview people are full of shit. You get really good at reading through bullshit I can't there's literally a song on my new album called red flag collector Okay, because you you are not a good because when I did as a child is I did not have the happiest of moments or life Right, so then I think I'm a creative person. So I would create whatever I needed to disassociate And live in a fantasy world.

Yes, still the person that loves Harry Potter Yeah, and magic and I have to hold on to it So I'm very bad at that because what I do is I see potential and I see who they really are you say you want them to be Exactly. Yeah, yeah, and so I'm not good at that. Okay, very easily taken advantage of I don't like that But then it's kind of good you stayed away from boys until you're older 100% Yeah, it would helped me honestly was singing I felt like it was my way out of where married and getting fulfilled and had purpose through singing and I never wanted to get married I never wanted children. I never wanted any of that I was never that girl I had friends that had like books if this is gonna be my dress and this is gonna be nice Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with it in my world I was just like you are putting a lot of pressure on something and it probably statistically is not gonna work out Right, so I never sought after you that stay tuned for armchair expert if you dare Okay, then without having to tell any of your stepdad's dirty laundry What do you think you personally left that experience with as an ism?

I learned from a very young age that I would never rely on somebody else financially emotionally Okay, right obviously we have different outcomes you and I like I think I am a good bullshit detector But minimally you have to leave with major trust issues. So here's the thing I trust everyone until you screw me over But I don't know if I'm ever fully and ever that's what I'm saying. That's trust I don't know I think we like to label things good bad healthy and healthy and I think also we are just a product of our upbringing Because okay, here's a lyric on the new album. Okay, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna.

I can't remember It's this on me I know but it's like I told you I wanted you but you needed me to need you that is not who I am It's never going to be who I am and I find it far more romantic and far more lovely that someone would choose you when they need you Yeah, I find that more meaningful, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the other person is comfortable with that or wrong It's just who they are. They want to receive love love languages, whatever But I don't know that it's a bad thing. It's just how I am and who I am so for me self-sufficiency was number one There's limited resources a lot of guys coming in and out of the picture You had to have your shit together and get yourself to school and brush your teeth No one else was watching out for that. So that has made me in relationships like I'm a island.

I'm good Let's be with each other, but I don't need any interdependence. I'm my own thing you be your own thing But is that so bad to find another island that you don't mind swimming over to each other's island every once in a while? It's not bad so long as your partner in my case You have a bridge like a drawbridge. My love languages.

I will never drain you. Yeah, that's how I show you I love you. I will never cost you a thing I will just be here to add whereas my wife's love languages No, no how I would show you that I love you is to do things for you and to care for you And I want to be cared for so you can have opposite love languages, which we have she would love to be in service to one another non-stop If she asked me to do something like I'm not your assistant. Yeah, you hear shit I'll do my shit.

I mean that's my instinct I have to overcome that but I think you can cohabitate But it's only a problem if you recognize that your partner is not getting the love language that they would want but interestingly enough We both did that thing that whole lovely thing and we're exactly the same in the same numerical order Then why doesn't that work because maybe you need to be opposites trying to figure out answers? Yeah, it just sometimes doesn't work Sometimes you try and you try and maybe we both have similar damage done to us when we were younger Maybe that plays a role, but it was a really hard thing for me to be with someone that maybe needed me to be somebody I could never be and I never told you I was yeah Like from the beginning even in the song lighthouse the things you loved and held up in such high regard and we're so attracted to Are things that being persecuted for? Yeah, by the way, I think you're in a very uniquely terrible position And I've had numerous hugely powerful women in here that all deal with the same fucking issue Which is men have a very hard time being lower status than their wives It takes a very special man that can live with a woman who's much more powerful in the world makes more money gets more attention Has more say because of all those things that is very hard for many men to deal with and it's very unfair And it puts a lot of you in a position where these men are attracted to your brilliance But then soon as they're living with it, they're very threatened by your brilliance I don't know if it's exactly that because he grew up with Rima McIntyre as a stepmother and his father was her man You know, I'm saying it was a very similar in his mother's very powerful I don't think that's just it to your point of this is the thing that attracted you to me I think it's very common for people to fall in love with that thing Mm-hmm and then ultimately feel threatened by that thing that that thing's more important than they are yes And I do think that rings true for a lot of relationships And it takes a very confident person to be okay with that my wife wants to sing on Broadway more than she wants to do anything with me I love that and I'm gonna have to be fine with that. Yeah supportive of that which I can be they're different desires The truth might even be though at gunpoint you pick one of these two things I might not pick I don't buy that could you love somebody who does have a first love that's in front of you?

I am attracted to people. I'm not saying even sexually I just mean I'm attracted to people that have their own shit going on. Yes, of course I am attracted to people that love being productive I'm attracted to people that have their own drive their own ambition competency industry people that are attracted to me Seemed to be people that are really into people that have a lot of drive and ambition Maybe some of the things they might be lacking that they adore but then get very resentful because they Feel I want to be comparing themselves to you. Yeah, so dangerous about themselves.

Yes, which is sabotaging Guilty of yeah, it can be rough when you desire a characteristic that your partner so effortlessly displays It's just a big mirror and all the time I can understand it being hard for that other person because they pick you because they think it'll like rub off on them or something that the proximity Will mean something it will bleed into them and then it doesn't and then they're upset about that Yeah, especially where I'm from it's like oh, we're half and half and make a hole even in my marriage I've never thought that I think that's very dangerous. Let's say you believe in God Let's say you don't whatever you believe in there's no one like you you are so special everyone even if you have a twin I know twins. They're very different from each other. We're so special.

Why would you give that up? Why would you need to let half of yourself go basically in order to allow somebody else in it makes more sense to me to be a Complete person find another complete person and I think confidence plays a huge thing here because insecurity is the most unattractive thing Let's see if we can crack it right now You came over here. I had too many beers. Let me take off your shoes and remove your You're gonna write the Broadway musical for Chris.

Well, this is for Monica and Matt. Oh, I disassociated during that I had to go she's very nervous when I sing I think it's never that we've had a singer in where you haven't sang That's definitely true, but I also sing all the time. You do. Yeah, it's not just specifically when y'all There you go people talking about what superpower you'd want like you want to fly Do you want to be invisible and I have many times said if I could Reticulate my jaw and let all the air come out and it sounded like a dale That would be my weird coming out of your body that sound but I would you care Anyone thought if I just let it rip because I do love singing so much and I'm terrible at it But that would be for me.

I think the best feeling I feel like it's a gift you feel it when you fucking let it rip There's definitely rough moments when you're like that was not my best But yeah, no when you practice or something you execute it and it works out even better than you planned Yeah, that's a really awesome feeling in the moment though the process forget the outcome of it It feels like a superpower because the only thing I can compare to is like writing a motorcycle on the track is the one thing I'm pretty darn good at and there are moments where I'm just like flying by dudes in a turn and I'm like Like I can feel this sense of power. I felt it when I used to snowboard and I'd like fly by people and I'm not You're not great at it. I'll be like that's you Okay, you'll sing around the house. Do you find yourself singing like in the shower?

I literally was just singing the shower because de-smooth was the last artist I had on the voice Like I just wrapped up and we had this duet and last minute a song clearance is a really fun thing in the TV world And we had to switch not only when his songs had to switch what we were singing to do it So I was like how much heads up 24 hours possibly yeah, or less than that I found out before rehearsal what we were doing so I was practicing because it's interesting to sing harmony when no one singing lead I was doing it. I guess so much that my daughter came in it goes really like this song Don't you like I'm usually singing the shower but not to this extent But I was really trying to nail like what I was gonna do and navigate it because we're both singers that never really sing the same thing Twice we can sing the same song, but it comes out differently every time. Yeah fun when you're a solo artist But not when you know you're creating a dream. Yeah, so that could be a little scary.

So anyway, she was like Oh, we're singing that's right. How about my nine-year-old like you're you done? They do get excited. I don't know the age difference our kids minus seven nine eight and ten they think it's awesome when we're out and People come up then all of a sudden they're right beside me.

It's my dad. You know, she'll be right beside me and she'll be like, oh hi Yeah, yeah, that's lovely. Yeah, go either way Yeah, it really can probably a 2.0 seconds. It's about when she's third, you know, it's not over your mom Yeah, okay wrapping up to me you not going in pursuing the college path Which was about to safer route showed some level of conviction and bravery and believing yourself the thing that blows my mind even beyond that is The notion that you had been offered a recording contract with both in her scope and jive one of those I remember is right But it was like a sitter, you know like how into the umbrella universal there's several labels So is that but the situation was you have to do this this this we own this we own that and I was just like, you know, I'm a really great waitress I think that's a rare choice, but here's why it's yes, you can call it brave my goal It's to be background.

Okay, let's slow down for one second. What if we took a second padded ourselves on the back? Oh, totally. No, I'm brave person.

I'm okay with it. I'm not therapy. I don't know. I know that's pretty fucking gangster You're 19 or 20 years old you've come to LA and you have a bird in the hand and you say no Thank you That's pretty astounding if you would offer me a show decks shepherd sex sticks behind Arby's when I was 19 Out of my like, yeah, absolutely.

How many years are we doing this? Oh, no, it is brave I do have a fair amount of confidence like self-worth But I also think that it has to do with the fact that that was not my actual goal So my goal was not to be a solo artist my goal in moving to Los Angeles was to be a background singer because I love Singing different genres of music. I want to go on tour with all these amazing artists that I love and I love harmony That was my dream. Okay, that makes sense And so for somebody to hand me some shitty ass contract.

That's basically you're giving your first born away. No, thanks I'm an all-in or all-out kind of person. I will dive right in even if somebody says it's a bad idea If it's something I want to do yeah, I'll do it. I think I've demonstrated that.

Yeah, I feel like I have to Okay, so I I was thinking about this. I'm not great at years I also don't know if something was five minutes ago or six years ago I'm not good at time in general Yeah, and as I've gotten older, it's just getting worse and worse. But some part of me was like, oh, yeah So I was watching that first American Idol in my apartment in Santa Monica with my ex-girlfriend Brie I had no hopes of being on TV at that point I was obsessed like everyone else was it was the most thrilling thing in the world when you want It was like justice had been served the right person one It was so triumphant I then because I'm a cynic and skeptical and I'm pessimistic. I'm like, oh, that was her four seconds By the way me too.

That's what I wanted to ask you because I thought this is so incredible But so much of it is about this experience. Does it transfer over to actual career? I don't know if they do now But they wouldn't allow you to do original music a lot of us were writers And I actually think Justin Garnie would have had a bit of an edge because he was a better writer than all of us I had that same thought too. I did have the thought of like man Maybe I won't have to wait tables I'll at least be able to get BGV work background work to be true that someone would get launched as a solo artist out of that Let me tell you why I think that show works when sometimes others don't that show was created by a person that owned a record label Simon Fuller.

Yes. Yeah, that also was a management company if you invest in these artists. They're on the show It's all full circle right so you invest in the artist and you actually put your money out and help them with a career He's very smart even before idol pop idol, which is where American Idol came from Which is the key if you're helping these artists then they're helping the credibility of your show He's invested in the outcome of you He's invested in all of it He's invested in all of it He's a producer, he makes money as a label, he makes money The TV show makes money because it's more lucrative because people believe in it because it's about credibility Yeah, that show stands out above all the others for that reason Are you so flattered when you hear Simon Cowell say that of all the idol winners you are by far the best singer I am extremely flattered because I know that he does not throw out compliments like that Yeah, I love hearing him say that because I never know if I can parse out how much of it was just the first experience with that show And you don't know if you've been swayed by the momentum of that whole thing This gales the best singer playing on earth where was she that's what I'm thinking watching the show So to hear him kind of confirm that I've really just enjoyed There are incredible singers out there that don't get the opportunity or get contracts like that happen to me put in their face It's like no way even with Simon Fuller. He let me out of my deal I was unhappy because he wasn't really able to manage me.

It was all the other people and it was just a really hard situation I just was not happy. I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel whatever I felt I needed to feel and he not only let me out He said girl, I will help you find a manager I will help you navigate this There's another part of my career when I parted ways with a manager And he you know even popped back up to my same lord that I've had since I don't was like hey She ever needs anything. Just let me know like he's legitimately the greatest guy ever Yeah, here's what I want.

I'm curious about I think we might have this in common But we've had nothing in common even though we've had the same childhoods and so maybe it's a fall apart Yeah, so I was on the show punked first season Yeah, I owe every single thing to punt but I had such a chip on my shoulder that I was coming off of a reality TV show I wanted to distance myself from punk so much really in the first five years I felt embarrassed that I had gotten famous from a reality show that I was in a real actor that I was a reality show person And that people thought that about me Yeah, and it was this huge hurdle It took me years to actually be able to look at punt and go that was excellent and that was a wonderful thing And I just wanted to do leave with any baggage. I don't have a lot of ego or pride. I don't get embarrassed I'm just not a person that generally puts time or effort into those thoughts So I went on every single season I think after and came and showed up and they were like hey Can you come back because you're like a success story? I'm very supportive because also I'm well aware that Celine Dion made it huge because of Eurovision.

Yeah, that's a singing contest I don't know that she's a fucking beast of singer that should have definitely been in the top 200 really stone You know same thing Frank Sinatra. I heard he had won a contest a lot of people that we adore And hold up his classics. Yeah, and at the same time I think because I come from nothing I'm like who the hell cares how you get here Yeah, how you stay longevity is the prize and listen I would never be looking at you thinking that but I was feeling that look at you nor do I know but from 28 to 33 I had a big chip on my shoulder about it But also I don't let that time was also really cool. No, no, no, no I had a really hard time because the first season we were jokes They didn't have stylists.

They sent him to the mall. They gave her some money and sent her to the mall What's gonna happen here even afterwards though we went to like MTV awards or something and people were not nice There were people that were nice, but that was rare like a lot of people were very demeaning and like all you're from the talent show, right? That's the thing I'm talking about but it didn't bother. That's so healthy of you What has the power to make you insecure then?

I'm not really an insecure person but doubtful that can be me if I like someone I don't get insecure about it because I feel like I'm a secure person and I'm worthy of a person But I think I'm not good at reading people so that makes me doubtful But when you're talking about things that you're not happy with or something you didn't want to be associated with so When I won I kind of want to Justin to win and Justin wanted to win because he wanted to do this movie that you had to do If you won and I did not want to do a movie because I have never had dream away from Justin to Kelly It will be playing in hell near you. Oh The people were nice Just I never wanted to be an actress and you're forcing someone that is just a singer-songwriter into a position that literally makes me have diarrhea Yeah, I get like a nervous time. Yeah, I see total IBS. No fun.

He's going on So I think I begged my label and I begged some flers like you've got to let me release my single my album before this thing comes out Or I am dead right I will take after all this good positive stuff. I'm not so They let me release my music so miss and it came out and it was number one for like weeks That song is what helped me overcome that because I did not want to do that and it is not good. It's not a great movie It's really not I've never seen it because she's a friend. I said if you're a friend you will never and it's not you're not into like musical movies anyway What was it?

What is it? Horrible? Are you playing yourself? Are you playing?

No, it's not a story of the microphone I got so emotional. No, it's not about us It was like a fictional story and they kept referencing this so I don't even know what I'm referencing because I've never seen these But they kept saying oh, it's like is it Frankie Bally and Bonichella Bonichella Bonich? What is the name? Oh, whatever these older people from yesterday that used to make movies on a beach or something.

Oh sure Elvis used to do those as well Yeah, that's not my vibe. It's not my vibe to watch. It's not my vibe to be in because the only acting I've ever done is on stage That's very different surely you're in the moment. It's one time through I didn't think it was gonna be bad.

No one like sets out to make a bad movie I told them in my closet crying in Texas in my apartment. I was like this is going to be horrible I am very aware of my capabilities what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not gonna excel in Yeah, you're like I'm not being bow humble. It's just not good. It's not me doing any kind of situation like that This is me being really honest.

Okay. Now. I'm gonna fast forward I'm gonna go really quick because we just gotta let everyone know so that first album off of idol 4.5 million copies huge That's then you get a different manger next album breakaway 12 million albums sold to Grammys. That's when albums sold Yeah, aren't you glad you got the tail end of that?

I always get the tail end of every industry. Yeah, you're kind of the tail end of it It's our internal joke like oh, you know, I'll get right in right when it's ending Yeah, yeah, yeah But better to got in at the end than I never got in okay, and then my December it's darker whatever it still does well But well there's a lot of bad Yeah, but who gives a fuck then we go on to all I ever wanted second number one album then stronger best pop vocal album only person win twice It's non-stop. You become so successful. You're one of the very most successful singers of all time take that opportunity And you sell 25 million albums and 45 million singles you go on what eight tours?

I have no idea a lot of places. I saw really no cities just the venue Well, I was gonna ask you how touring life is for you I loved it in my 20s. It was a very good time that I was a single no children friends with you family friends I don't know how people work in an environment where y'all aren't friends anybody even work with your band your crew that becomes your Road family and your friends as well and I bring family and friends out as well You learn to have fun on the road I guess that's my main question I had to learn because I'm also from that classically trained background where I was miserable first and never talking and never going out and Micro-managing myself. I was not fun the first few years and then I got fun.

Okay, and what were the tequila? I'm trying my voice and I don't give a fuck. Sorry Sipping on the same sauce, which of your peers are you most blown away back? That's the one.

What do you think about it though? Oh, I love it. I mean that was just my first I wasn't challenging it. The thing that stands out for me about pink is I just love how real she is on and off camera She's the same person and I love how honest she is I love that she can be playful and sing like fun silly songs, but also do these really cut you right to the bone Yeah, she have the best voice.

I think that's subjective. So yeah, it's your personal taste. Yeah, I think of my generation She's my favorite. Oh, wow.

Are you guys pals? I love her. We don't barbecue regularly We've got two kids and like a lot going on but I find a lot of commonalities with her. I like I just I feel she's like a comfortable place She's good people.

That's what we say. She's good people. Yeah, many people would answer that question with you of course many people I know your boyfriend Jess is absolute favorite Oh, he is a singer and knows all the stuff and he thinks just technically you're perfect Oh my gosh thing that I keep reading as I research you that people are most blown away with is your unique ability to hop into any fucking song I love different genres. It's so frustrating when the industry forces artists who are innately limitless like an artist does not want To be limited to say this is your genre.

This is what you're doing The talk shows been the best form of that for me just to be able to really attack different genres Whether it's Foo Fighters or Rosemary Clooney or whatever it is I just love all different styles of music. You know a lot of people say oh man, she's the artist they can do that I think there are a lot of other artists that can do that. They just don't have the opportunity. Okay, that's nice of you But I bet you're still the best at it.

Yeah, I think that's serious. I know you're serious But also it's doesn't it's bullshit, but it's cute. It's really cute that you think that's kind of Let's talk about the talk show. That's a cute.

Well, it isn't it isn't I guess because you've done nine seasons of the voice maybe nine She's incredible. He doesn't 14 to 23 took when you're off me. I took when you're off cuz I did some of your Snoop Dogg. Yeah, by the way You know, we need that stuff whatever question I was asking because that is one of my questions Can I just give you back story?

Yes, I think I can talk to anybody in fact. I'm cocky and entitled Yeah, I think I can get down with any group of people. Alright, I think I'm that person too. I sense that That's cocky.

I think it's just like you like Snoop is the only person I've ever been talking to where I got insanely Self-conscious about how white I am. I'm like oh my god, this I sound like a newscaster I was like I have no rhythm right now. I was so intimidated. Oh, wow because you're being a fan for so long Yeah, I was overwhelmed.

He's got like nine things to say about you He's a very generous literally the person by the way that doesn't just talk to the famous people in the room That's what I love about it. He talks to everyone. Yeah, the thing you like about pink It's a thing I like about Snoop, which is this dude has stayed the exact same yet wandered into kids movies wandered into this one Or to that being a complete stoner. It's never losing who he is being authentic, but traveling through every little group I think it's important because I think people will look at rappers and think limited and they're not Once again, like I think that people are capable of doing more than you're allowing them to live and be what's one behind the scenes thing That cracked you up a lot about my shoe.

First of all, I am astonished because anytime I've ever been high in my life I can't work. Yeah, I can sit on a couch like it's called in the couch for a reason So I've never been able to move and people are highly productive Yeah, it's almost like with their personality I need it levels me right and I work with actually a lot of artists that are like that so professional on time kind to everyone But this one time because he would have to take a break because I think America's on his like two hours He's got to smoke every what? He's got his own wheels to come in with his router and he leaves during the live show. They're like, oh, he'll be right back It was hilarious, but I think everyone knew it's like having Willie Nelson on set But he would come back and every time I was floored that he was just holding his own like This is impressive.

There was one time. It's a live show Yeah, I don't know if he was turning around where he didn't see it I just picked it up and I just like kind of whatever. Yeah, I have to think he goes. Oh, mama.

Thank you I didn't see that I didn't see that and I was like I didn't want to interrupt you, but I was like does he see that? Yeah, it happened once. It's a live show. Yeah, like that's hard for people that aren't any greater stuff.

It was hysterical I love him though. I would work with him at any point Stay tuned for more arms are expert if you dare Okay back to the daytime talk show. So I still think I really big swing. It's not worked out for more people than it has worked out for Which I didn't know that space probably great.

You didn't know that ignorance was I had no idea statistically that I was doomed to fail They approached you they approached me I was on the voice and it was NBC and they were like hey We have this idea to do a talk show with you and I said, okay, no I'm like I'm not a journalist. I'm not a comedian. I'm not even an actor I'm none of the things that I feel like those people are and they were like we just love your personality on the air and you're really Good engaging and we think you do really well. You know how to connect to people Yeah, so I will say I'll give credit to my ex and the sense that he really pushed me to do the show What was it he saw in it for you that you weren't seeing he just would always say I just know you're gonna be really great It and I don't think he knew if I'd like it or not, but I think he thought I would be great at it It's a very very hard job.

It's really I don't think people realize. Oh, I know people say that and I'm just gonna be honest with you What a wonderful really not. You know why you're great at talking if you enjoy talking if you're a curious person naturally You're communicative in general you surround yourself with a team of people that obviously do all the homework for you I don't know how to do that. They go to school for that.

I'm the person on stage just implementing the plan And then also taking it where I want to because they're like, well, she doesn't know, but I'm a naturally curious person I told him from the get-go. I'm not putting any pressure on myself. This is not a job. I ever thought I would have been able to dust off Yes, I'm just like I'm gonna go in here And I'm gonna need you to let me be me and do it how I do it because I can't be Oprah and I can't be Ellen I can't be any of those people so they let me incorporate it with music real quick question So I interview Ellen about this same thing Which is she danced in the pilot of her talk show as a whim and they were like that works You have to dance every show now and she came to hate dancing that she had to do it So I'm wondering part of what you do is you sing a ton Yeah, I'm 95% of the time excited because I love music.

I'd still am a kid. I'm not jaded at all in that sense Even when I suck I'm like, well, I like having sex, but if I had a fuck every day at 10 a.m. I would soon hate it I would hate it. So no big use anti-cuse.

Yeah, so even something you love Yeah, if you have to do every single day Well, I think it's usually when I was doing the voice the talk show doing album stuff and being a mother It was all that it once was a lot for me that I would be like, you do occasional performances as well that pop up I'm sure we do we did implement though, and we started it in the first season we store up ones that we record But also sometimes we just do like a karaoke encores what we call it and we just do a throwback because I'm like guys I can't today. Yeah, and that's okay They've been very good and trusting so it's not a hard job. Okay, great. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that I have friends who have similar jobs and they're relentless endless five a week that whole thing Well, mine's three days a week and we do two shows a day.

That's perfect. Yeah, so it's like I get enough of a break Yeah, good. I think also because it's not my main thing I mean it is a main thing I just mean I have other things going on to break up the monotony because tomorrow I'm gonna be singing somewhere today I'm doing this. Yeah, I got you now since starting it.

Hey, it's hugely successful They've renewed you to 2025 tons of Emmys right I'll get you in crazy. You're a very charmed life And I'm sure you're aware of it But just the notion that you win idle you sell got these bullet Lots of Grammys you pop in the TV There's a version where we would hate you, but we don't Forget because I'm interviewing people all the time now, and I've been doing tons of interviews where I'm having to talk about myself And I'm like kind of my bar Kelly Clarkson right now It's not like just about the same thing I've been talking about it's about all things Well, I hope so. I think that's enjoyable when people do that because it changes it up. Okay, so you do so much All these shows we just said congratulations on all of them everything you do you want an award for and it's usually Okay, I think if you weren't so approachable you seem very normal and approachable and real then people might hate you But people can relate to you so when you're winning it feels good.

It's like maybe I could win or something Which is totally wrong. Yeah, no one else can win everything nothing left for anyone to win. I've lost so much I think that's the hack though. Okay, so so much stuff and I guess I think I was a little unaware of how much stuff You've been doing I mean it's so much stuff.

Yeah, it's at nine seasons of the voice It's many seasons of your own show and it's a Snoop Dogg show and it's eight albums and it's eight tours And it's now a new album. How many days can you go doing nothing before you fucking lose your mind? It's gotta be an issue it is not it's enough every time I go to Montana my entire crew is afraid I'm never gonna come back you go off Yes, that I might do yeah because I love being off grit But I am always like right now I just built these four little one-bedroom cabins for like family and friends who they come visit and neck right now I'm like planning for this outdoor moving that we can all do I'm planning for this party mind that we're doing and setting it all up I'm building a kitchen I'm always doing things because I like a project I like to be productive But I am very good at sitting in front of the fireplace and just sitting and checking out. Okay good That makes me feel a little better sometimes.

I need help with that to slow down by way of tequila Because I'm very like you want to be able to dial your wife's energy is similar to mine in the sense of I feel like she goes She goes hard and she's like you where she just wakes up places and she can do it They should wake up on a talk show and she's in the middle of reading a thing You're like, okay, this is what I'm doing. Yes. No, I'm like that too I sometimes need like a glass when something will slow me down to where I can be still I've been aspiring towards you guys because Anything that's coming up. I just have that sense of homework a lot and I think about what's coming up next And I've been trying or last few years to literally just find out the night before what I'm doing the next day Which is been very helpful.

It's extremely helpful to not have the entire schedule in your face I'm able to do a lot more when it's just day by day. Yeah, and then that requires you to trust people in your life to help you implicitly Yes, okay, so we talked about the premise of chemistry. It's covering the full range though It's like an emotional world coast of an entire relationship from the PQ's to the desperation of loneliness and Essentially feeling like you're gonna be lonely forever and all those feelings. Yeah, I don't know There's not really a song like that.

I wish we had a medal prepared for you You haven't agreed with one thing I said, no, and I love it. I'm very proud of you No, it's not it's not exactly like to where you feel like you'll be a loner's life Cuz I don't think that there's necessarily anything wrong with that But I feel like to have love like I never thought I was capable of to have felt that and lose that you feel that It's grief and so the stages of grief are on it I've had ultimate conviction that I have to end this person feels differently than I do I go and end it it's miserable and then I leave and then like a day later. I'm like, hmm, maybe I'm super in love with No, so that's like a normal swing and it's also a huge decision, especially if it's not just like a boyfriend girlfriend This is a marriage that means something is affecting more than just myself So I think that's the thing that really is devastating is having to carry that weight of what is going to happen If you make this decision and honestly a lot of the songs are me on the fence You know of how much more could I possibly give to try am I depleted or is there room? And I think that's a wonderful zone to explore because you're right Most songs are either about falling love or breaking up and so off in the bulk of it's like not really knowing Yeah, there's a song and I'm called magic.

It feels magical and special. How could I run away from that? But at the same time, it's very unhealthy and also a big fear for me at least when I've left really substantial relationships Like well, that'll never happen again. I think because I never felt that before and having felt it once I don't know.

I think I'm an optimist. I think I'm capable of that. Oh, that's good. Yeah, a better version of that I think a healthier version.

Yeah, a healthier version for sure. Okay now back to LA What is unhealthy about it? You've used the word unhealthy several times in your explanation for while you're leaving out in New York What is the element that feels unhealthy? I know it sounds silly, but not having seasons does affect me emotionally It's also the ever climbing of the ladder I just feel this energy that people are always trying and then you get sucked into it It's like when is enough enough?

Are you ever going to be satisfied? I can answer that for you. No, but yes Yeah, it's like that's so hard I've been very blessed like if right now my show got canceled or we didn't do it or nobody wanted to hear a record from Kelly Clarkson again I'm fine I've built a beautiful life and that's a thing a privilege of being able to do it I think people lose sight of that even if you're able to be in one major movie, right? Yes, that's incredible people would die to have that opportunity I think we get lost in that society tells us that that's not successful or we tell ourselves that's not successful But this person successful and I bet you've you talked to that person They're still thinking of what they have in a complex door.

They want more like it's just town has that vibe My hunch was some of that was in play because I live on this side of town, which is helpful There's no real billboards around me. I don't ever see them I go to Bel Air once in a while to go to an amine and I drive down sunset and when I drive down sunset I'm reminded of how triggering all of the billboards are it's everyone you know, they're in all these different things I have the thought I'm not on a billboard and you're also reminded by society that this is what success is and that's not true I know I'm at the risk of sounding like a self-help book right now, but it is incredible. You should go into that water I'm sure you win a Pulitzer. I'm sure I've read a billion my therapist literally heard one thing to me It was like you are not allowed to read self-help or anything you're gonna educate yourself on I want you reading fiction.

Yeah, it's just hard for me because I like learning But I don't want to just shit on it because it's also a very beautiful creative environment big time at the risk of that is a Constant craving for more one is not healthy, but to that's not a happy life, right? Why can't you just be happy for that person like okay? They're killing it on that you know dream world You would get on an elevator in Montana and you would come out on to your sound stage in a dream world They let me move the show to Montana and not New York Yes, and then you could just escape every other part of it Yes, cuz it comes back to that initial dream. I wanted to be background singer I did not handle fame well in my 20s It crushed me that I couldn't go anywhere and people would not notice me not the fact that like oh poor girl The people notice her I had a certain point in my garage in Texas and I was like 24 And it was like I can't take it back.

Yeah I have the same moment and it was also in Texas I went to a foot records by myself and I noticed like 90% of the people in the restaurant were staring at me I was by myself and I felt so self-conscious and I went outside and called my girlfriend like I don't know what I did I don't want it My garage and my brother was like shut up calls and what it was overwhelming and the thought that I could stop then and it's still gonna be there You know, it's always gonna be there. So I learned to lean into that we have to accept it You have to go and now what cuz that's life. Okay, so my therapist has helped me through this for me Of course you won't agree a lot of me not being able to enjoy that attention as I didn't really feel worthy of it Okay, so a lot of mine is I feel guilty. Why me?

Why did I make it out? Why did I get a survivor's guilt? Yes, and my business manager is like you have to stop because I feel guilty so I'd give everyone Yeah, and then you have a lot of transactional relationships, which are very bad Yeah, and then when people are texting or calling you it just immediately changes absolutely Yeah, the phone rings. Oh, yeah, that's what normally happens.

Yeah. Oh fuck this person I normally love getting a call from yeah, I'm nervous that sucks But my mom fixed that for me by the way she gave me the best advice She said in life you can either be the person calling for help or the person giving help Just what one you want. I guess I'd rather be getting called for help But in life, I think also you could be both you should be both sure am I disagreeing with you? No, the important thing was there's two players in this situation.

I just remind myself well, you know It could be worse. I could be calling and asking for help that would actually be way more uncomfortable for me than providing help It's hard for you to ask impossible. I could be on fire You could be holding a hose and I would spray it on me man. I'd be like We learned more opposites.

We could have perhaps married I like you though in the sense that I do love giving help given the talk show like going through horrible divorce going through COVID going through all that those things at once It's nice to have to almost look outside yourself and focus on other people doing incredible things and other world issues going on It's nice because then it's not that you're necessarily not addressing it. You're minimizing the power it has on you That's helpful too to focus on other people to kind of climb out as well It had been what six years or something since your last non-Christmas album this album I think it's around six or so years I often have this thought about art this happens to comedians It happens a lot of people is like you're a comedian because you feel like an outsider You have a great perspective on everything and you can really skewer and poke at the things that are happening that you feel a little Bit left out of but then you get invited into this party And in fact you might even rise to have the power within the group and as your life becomes more and more comfortable And you're actually not the victim of any suppression from anyone else It can kind of erode your comedic edge It can be kind of a death sentence for comedians and you're a very comfortable life You're already honest about it that the divorce did create this album What are your thoughts on suffering and art? Unfortunately my thoughts are what is reality from darkness comes a lot of light It comes a lot of art. I wrote a ton of music for me It was just therapeutic and writing is a way of me figuring out honestly like where I'm at and like how I feel because sometimes I'm so bad At voicing potential and like always seeing hope that that can really fuck me, but when I'm really really happy I don't tend to write I listen to music differently when I'm very sad or very elated.

That's right. They give life to the emotion I'm having that I can't articulate. Oh my god Here's this exact emotion I have existing in the song and I want to hear it over and over again because I recognize this and I feel connected and not alone because This exists and so I must feel the same way as I personally know and to connect like that is invaluable isn't it interesting that you can hear The same song ten years later and it completely hit you differently Like a song you've known since maybe childhood as well And then all of a sudden you go through something and you're like, you know what that I actually get now And I thought I got it before art in general anything that moves people anything that powerful has to come from something powerful and unfortunately Tragedy is powerful and it makes a big footprint on us Would you get down on yourself in periods of happiness where you weren't feeling as motivated to write? No, cuz I'm not one of those artists and I'm not downing artists that do this But I've always written on my records, but I've also had other artists write on my records I didn't write strong or Ali Temposita.

There's incredible writers out there who are going through it can be the vessel for so no I would rather be happy Yeah, cuz I don't really mind if I write it or not if I can connect to it, then I'll be the vessel for it Yeah, I feel like you really don't have ego after this conversation like at all, which is amazing. Yeah, I think you kill people No, I'm very boring. It's very much this. I'm not that exciting in that sense.

Well, you're the loveliest person to root for But I'm so delighted that you've had so much success cuz you were so I love conversation. I love other ideas. That's why you know people always say stay away from faith Stay from politics over like the things that you should talk about. I love hot button.

Yeah, I love to hear people's thoughts on it I love if I disagree with you. Why do you think that I think that's when you learn? That's a confidence thing I'm totally secure in how I feel about it. It's not gonna hurt me to hear the contrary opinion or some criticism of it And I think it's scary when you can't I think it's when people don't really have full conviction about their opinion But they feel threatened by hearing something different.

Yeah, fear creates a lot of chaos But back to how easy it is to be a cheerleader for you. I'm so delighted for you with all this success And I hope chemistry is enormous. Oh, yeah, we do a tour for it. Oh, you were gonna do a residency right before COVID I was actually a very different thing.

It was gonna be the big kind of big show So now I'm doing 10 shows starting the end of July It's more of an intimate rock and roll all about lighting and the music and the music and the story telling so it's more that kind of I because I felt like it fit more with this release no festivals or anything You're not popping in anywhere. Well, I don't know. We're kind of still trying to figure that out because I really love Montana Yeah, try to figure out what's the biggest thing we can do? I don't have to work as much.

Look, I've worked so hard. Yeah, like I Desired to actually enjoy this place. I worked my ass off to pay for it. Well, Kelly.

This has been a blast. So fun You're a party. Yes, it was so lovely and everybody listens to chemistry from beginning to end to go for the full range of emotions Yes from PQ's to All right, well good love with everything and thanks so much for coming in Study toon for the facts actually can hear all the facts that were wrong Are you recording? I'm recording.

I'm recording. Oh, wonderful. Have you just come from supper? You're kind of dressed up Yeah, I wear dresses in London.

Oh, you do. Yeah, that was decided before you got there Or when you arrived, you thought I'm gonna stick with these dresses. Yeah, when I packed rapidly I mainly packed dresses. Oh, okay.