The views, opinions, statements, advice, legal or otherwise, or other information expressed or shared by the podcast participants are attributable solely to the podcast participants and do not reflect the opinions, viewpoints, policies of, or any endorsement by the producers Guild of America. Kids at Play is a collaborative production studio that has developed content for just a library platform. The projects have attracted the best talent in the industry and the intention of a significant number of household brands. They take their work seriously, but promoting Emma, a Fulbright boxer to COO, shows that they have a playful site as well.
Joining me today are two of the forces behind this creative powerhouse, founder and executive producer Jason Berger, and producer and president, Amy Lasslett. So let's start from that last piece there. How did Emma get her job as COO? It's interesting.
You know, Emma has literally since she's been coming to set. The very first real job we ever had was, we had six spots, right? Six spots for Intel that we were shooting. I was like, you know, let's just get her right into it.
So she came to set it with her sound face. She just started running around and having a good time and kept the atmosphere up. So she really did, you know, her chief operating officer, I think. How she got her first.
And I think it's, yeah, she definitely, you know, keeps the name, kids at play. Keep us all honest to keep being kids at play because she keeps it light around the office. She's our stress doc, which is great. I think that's incredibly important.
So I mean, talk a little bit about what you guys actually do over there, kids at play, and sort of what you're governing ideas of philosophies are. Yeah, so Jason started the company about eight years ago before content was kind of the buzzword in the industry, which really is the idea of making agnostic content and really the viewers and the best home for it were more important than, you know, getting it on a specific TD network website. So it was really boring in the branded content space, which we can talk more about because of Jason's previous relationship. So we started, you know, doing really the first kind of short form digital series for brands when brands were kind of recognizing that that was an important part of their business.
And that really grew from there. So, you know, that's kind of a true today. We operate in four buckets, pretty equally. One being branded content, one being high-end digital content, and then more traditionally TV content and film.
And a lot of those now, those lines between what we classify those are pretty blurred. So, you know, digital series can also be branded. Digital series can also be TV. So we really cross the boundaries and try to think outside the box of how we're reaching the best and the most viewers.
And then, kidsify is, you know, a full service production and development company as well. So we have development, you know, production staff and post-production and house. So we're able to jump into a project at any different point, but really, you know, our product is a lot of the stuff we developed with partners and collaborators and other networks and getting it produced and finished and on air. So Jason, what is your background?
Is it in commercials? No, it's actually in television. I mean, I came out here and literally just tried to learn every aspect of the business. So, you know, I was, you know, my first kind of job out here was like a basically just pick up the track work list at the lot at Universal and kind of moved my way up into, you know, working as a runner and then a PA.
And then I would just come and float from a different department. Go to Gini and go to Sound and go to the cam ops and I would just, you know, wrangle cables or, you know, hold the boom while they were, you know, getting a lot of together. Just thinking like that and then I would, you know, on the post-site I would just help blog footage and, you know, transcribe stuff. And then we'd just sit in the line producer's stuff like that when they were doing budget.
So, and fully worked my way up to get on the desk of a guy named Frank Simpson who was at the time with Red Skies Entertainment, which is now a silo. And, you know, which is a speed Michael's coming. And, and really just kind of was on his desk and the system at the same time was just also a PA for a couple of shows. So, I was really kind of burning the Midnight Oil in terms of just working for him and, you know, logging, transcribing footage at night for the show that we were producing there.
But, you know, at the time, this is kind of a time, it wasn't necessarily like commonplace to do proof of concepts or go and shoot something. And he's kind of a, you know, book, aren't you, you know, the episodes that got picked up. And the minute was worked out. So, to go back to your question, my background really isn't in how that kind of came about as just a brother's advertising and creative executive.
Nice. And, Amy, what about you? What's your background? Did you make your way similarly through or did you have a little bit of a different journey?
A little bit of an Amy Jason, you know, was always new. He wanted to do this in which a school for business and film. I had no idea what I wanted to do. So, definitely didn't grow up with a dream of this.
But kind of fell into it in happenstance in college. I went to school in Los Angeles and started for extra cash. So, I was basically sitting for my college professor who I got along with really well and it turned out his wife was an independent film producer. So, she was like, oh my gosh, after the kids go to bed, do you want to learn this industry and help me and write some coverage?
And I was like, I have no idea what any of that means. But, totally, I will do that. And so, I just kind of jumped in and, you know, did whatever she needed. And so, similarly, got kind of a quick crash course in a little bit of every part of the industry, which I think Jason and I share the importance of telling kind of upcoming producers now that's the best way to jump in.
It's just learn everything you can from a runner's job to a PA's job to a grips to a gaffer to a production coordinator to a producer. To our department. And that's kind of what I did with her. I worked with her in all sorts of fields on independent movies and interns in the costume department and just said a little bit of everything.
And, you know, her advice to me was learn everything you can in each department, ask questions and you'll become a really good producer. So, that kind of led in to meeting Jason after I worked on an independent film with her. I think I wanted to kind of explore the other types of content that were starting to be produced that I could be on the forefront. And so, while I loved the independent film space and that also really taught me how to make a lot on a little, meaning by the individual, it kind of opened my eyes to all of this other amazing content that was being produced.
And, you know, I'm a huge multi-tacker and so when I met Jason, it was just kind of a perfect fit because he was doing so much at once. And I was so intrigued and attracted to that kind of structure of a company of not just focusing on one project. So, jumped right in. So, similarly, I fell into it a little more accidentally, but then fell in love with it.
So, Jason, what was the final moment where you said, I'm forming my own company. This is what it's going to be. This is what we're going to do. You know, I was probably just having multiple conversations with executives in terms of the conversations that we had.
We're just about there being a need for high quality content that other companies were able to modify. And I think that that was kind of the jumping off point, I would say, with the conversations I was having not only in an entertainment world, but also in the advertising space. So, it's just like this need for high quality content and it was like digital kind of with the conversation. And nobody really could monetize it.
I mean, the big commercial production houses that were out there, it didn't make sense to them to do it. And these are the budgets that we're talking about. I mean, you know, the six spots that we did for in time, they were just tiny. And they got, you know, they were to be distributed digitally.
So, it didn't make sense. I mean, you know, from economic perspective, you know, from economic standpoint for these companies to do it. So, I think that was kind of the moment. And I think also it was before, you know, to talk about his decision and the brand and jump.
It was before brands were doing really anything that created. You know, it was like they had their commercials as people holding up, you know, a beverage can and smiling to camera. But that was about it. You know, the most creative things, obviously, were like the Super Bowl commercials for millions of dollars that everyone watched.
And I think it was kind of at this, you know, turning point in branded content where they were recognizing, you know, very people like Jason were recognizing, but to really connect to an audience that's maybe not the best way. And not the best way to get your consumers to go buy your products and not the best way to build brand equity. You know, to be a cool brand is not necessarily spending $5 million on the Super Bowl commercial. Not that that will ever go away, but that there's other more supplemental content that's more creative and targets a very specific audience.
And you can see, you know, click through the people going to sites from that content. And so, I think that that was, technically, if I'm wrong, is a really intriguing time for you that, you know, kind of also you saw that bleeding into digital content where brands were then going to pay for scripted beer, you know, and that was going to kind of all, eventually, the industry was going to recognize that and content was just going to become content and brands could become studios. And studios were going to partner more with brands and that there was going to be kind of a more fluid conversation between all those parties, which we've seen happen today. There was this ability to just have, you know, immediate real-time analytics to the content that you're producing, which now obviously we see it on time, but I think that that was really exciting for me because I feel like I could, I could, I could, I could, an client could really see how well the content was doing immediately.
And the idea too was that if I could build a production company that could pivot based on the analytics, you sort of like for, just really just in terms of saying, hey, look, at, you know, one minute, 20 seconds, does it drop off? Or at one minute 20 seconds, we're feeling like, you know, there's a spike. Whatever that may be, what I could then do is go into, you know, the, you know, in a post in the same house, go to post, and make changes to the content, immediately re-upload that content. And I think that that was very, very exciting for me.
And I think that like at the time, I don't think that anybody was really taking advantage of that. And so, and from a production standpoint, really the idea too, you know, to me's point is that like being able to pivot like that and being able to kind of also understand that like, it would be a time at one point where it was no longer about, you know, and that idea I think is just very, very interesting to me. And I just like that idea to be able to actually push content that would, you know, all the showcase, the ability to move to the pond, what the audience is doing. So when you're working with brands, how do you walk the line between sort of being a straight up commercial and being a narrative, because I know that there's a lot of discussion about how certain demographics can smell that they're being sold something from 100 miles away?
How do you negotiate that? That's a good question, you know. I think we can talk about all that Jason jumped in because this is definitely his brainchild is connecting all these parties. But I think a good example is a series we did, which, you know, took a while to get everyone to realize exactly what you're saying and walk out fine line.
But it was called Junketeers, and it was a collaboration between us, the two creators Joshua Wichand and Mayans who, you know, in their careers have been very high level celebrity news correspondents, and the stories were kind of based off of their experiences. And Lexus, as a brand and comedy central as a distributor. And so obviously a lot of parties, a lot of things to juggle and you're bringing a brand into a very established network. And so it was a complicated deal, a complicated conversation, but really what we were able to do is produce this scripted comedy series with Lexus underwriting the content as really the studio.
And, you know, it was Lexus was a great match for it because, you know, the basis of the show is scripted comedy based around the celebrity news junket. And we had a slew of celebrities come in and play themselves as really the normal people in this crazy world. And so there was a gliss and glamour that Lexus, you know, equates to its car line that was naturally built in. But what we didn't want to do for a multitude of reasons, one was we didn't want to, you know, infuse the brand so much that the series became something we didn't want to be.
You know, we wanted it just to be a scripted series. And then also we had really high level talent, you know, so we didn't want to have any sort of, you know, we had a lot of interactive brands competition. So that was a fine line to walk. And really, you know, Lexus was great in realizing that, well, we don't need to play our products in this because the series itself and the law line and the talent and what stands behind it is really what we're trying to, the audience we're trying to reach and the message that we're trying to provide.
And I think that like, you know, the idea is that, and I have always believed this, that like real content, you know, really good content. You know, you can come from a brand and you don't have to have the product with me through it. I do believe that there is something to be said about just going out and getting street cred. You know, and I feel like the audience will recognize that you're behind that piece of content.
They'll seek out, they'll find it, and it'll raise your street cred. I think that's what we get here. And I think I can, like, just for doing it. And obviously we had, you know, killer partners at Comedy Central.
So it was like, it was a great marriage. It was definitely like the easiest thing to do. But I think that like everybody saw the benefit of it, you know, because I think it's big. I mean, you guys have had such incredible talent in your projects.
How do you, I mean, is it just as simple as reaching out to them and getting them interested, either in just sort of being with the brand or are they familiar with your work and willing to come along for the ride route? How do you guys do that? Yeah, you know, it kind of came naturally a couple of ways. We were first doing, you know, digital series.
Most of them were really built around, you know, A-list talent's passion products. And so, you know, five years ago now or something, we did a few series for Yahoo and AOL when they had their kind of streaming platforms. And one was, you know, Meecy Nash loves giving advice about love. And so, you know, we built a series around her doing just that.
Judy Greer, you know, was on the road so much being such a successful working actress. And, you know, she was like, it's so hard to stay healthy and have a normal life routine when I'm out on the road. And she wanted to talk about that. So, we created a project with her on that.
Ed Helms, you know, gloves, remote control vehicles, we ended up creating a scripted kind of adventure comedy series where they're the poor and child private investigator who solves crime, but only through R.T. vehicles. Now, I think we sometimes forget that that level of talent, you know, they're stuck being and granted they love it, but they're, you know, being an actor on a TV show and that's what they're doing. When they also, you know, got into the film business to get our hands dirty and make stuff.
And so that might mean that someone wants to also dress or someone wants to also produce. And so we're able to kind of create a studio and a home for people who are wanting to do that more. And I think that word honestly just kind of spread. Like, this is a cool place to do this and it's fun.
And you can go out and like, it's not, you know, it doesn't feel so grueling. And so we started doing more and more of that. And a lot of it, you know, honestly, is also just like, we love this person. We love their work.
Let's reach out to Acne Agency, our management company and see if I want to do it, you know. And then just making sure that they have a good time doing it so that that reputation kind of keeps up. Yeah, I think that, you know, Andy kind of has really just, he's just done a fantastic job in terms of just making the sets efficient and light in the process extremely efficient, extremely enjoyable. And I think that just keeps people from more and wanting to be involved.
And we have wanting to be involved in all aspects of process because of kind of how she's running the productions. And it's like, you know, everybody lifting those. I mean, you know, production is just weathering the storm, you know what I mean? And so it's like things are going to happen that are, you know, on your control or things are going to happen that, you know, are correct enough.
But it's just like, you know, how you can come back and how you can keep the light, keep the better efficient. And she does really do a great job. And I think that also just the word amount kind of people end up wanting to work with you. So let's shift a little bit into more of the scripted, non-brand based type work.
How do you guys approach that? Are networks still coming to you? Or are you just, again, coming up with ideas for shows and pitching them to the networks? It's a combination.
You know, I mean, it's like in some ways we'll get stuff that's just like, hey, you know, and really we can come in at a point. Hey, we have an idea, pushing it out and then, you know, executing it from script like, hey, look, you know, here are the scripts. We've got this amount of money, we just need to make it. And then there's also the, you know, that kind of gets created internally and also gets created.
Picking off an extremely established writer or actor or director or it can be, you know, someone has a great script. When someone's coming to you to pitch, what do you like in a pitch with what you're hearing? You know, I'll tell you this. I mean, the pitch can be something that we're going to pass on, but I will say that the number one thing that I look for is just, if you come at it and you're so excited about it and you're passionate, to me is like either way, you would be like or not, the idea thing that you're passionate, it's a good meeting for me to come in and just show them enthusiasm, then it's already in out.
I also think it's like really knowing your project. You know, it's like, you can tell the people who've been thinking about this for so long and like are obsessed with their main character, whoever that is, or just like no different situation they're in and you ask them questions and they, you know, granted they may not know everything, that's okay. But they're like, oh my gosh, you know, this character, you know, then go do this because they know them so well that I think you can really see the people who have to base this point, you know, thought things through, first of all, you know, and are prepared, but also just love their project so much that the characters and the situations are just in their mind and they can kind of navigate questions that you're asking. So I think it does come to passion and also just knowing your project inside and out.
Do you guys often work with fresh talent or new talent and try to, you know, groom them and guide them through the process if they have a really good idea? Absolutely. I mean, I think that's one of the most exciting parts of the job, you know, and it's, and not me, I've been in front of camera talent or behind camera talent, you know, if we find someone we just truly believe in, will, even if it's just, you know, small one day roles will be like, please come in, we love this person so much, you know, and kind of handle a lot of that caffeine, you know, ourselves too, just because we find this kind of like group and family of people that we love, and same thing on the, you know, writer and director side. Of course there are times when you need someone to establish or want someone to establish for one reason or the other.
And I think part of the fun is kind of helping give these new voices whomever they are, a chance to just kind of do what they do best and become part of, you know, our family over here so that we're part of their success in turn. You mean, look, you know, the good idea. I mean, that's really kind of what comes down to it. And then we'll find a way to, you know, cut through, you know, the, the clutter and the red tape is to go back down, you know, meaning like, you know, you take your number, the first one to establish, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you're not going to be able to do that.
And then we'll establish, you know, we need a showrunner or not. You know, we'll find a way to know. Yeah, that's fantastic. What is it that you think is sort of very important to being a producer?
The skills that you need, the background, the way to approach the work. What is important for a producer? You know, I think two things. One goes back to, you know, how we both kind of grew up in the space and one is really knowing all aspects of production.
I think a lot of people jump to being a producer without understanding each element of production, really, because they're on one specific path, which is a great thing because you have focus and you have a goal. But I think, you know, you need to know each and every bit of the production process from, you know, the viewpoint of each department. And that's because really then you know when people need more time and you know when people don't. You know, and so I think that that's a, just a really important piece of being a good producer because your dog is to empower people and give people what they truly need.
But also to keep things on schedule and unbunded and on a specific delivery path and creative path and if people are asking for things that you know that they don't need, then you have some sort of, you know, knowledge base to back that up. And then I think the second thing is really just being calm. You know, I think there's a lot of people who take, like Jason said before, production is weathering the storm and there's never a production that goes perfectly. And so I think knowing that is kind of your baseline and not getting freaked out about every little thing that goes wrong and really saving your stress and anxiety for the bigger things that do.
I think really just as a tone for the whole project and the whole series because it's a stressful set or a stressful process in pre-production or post-production. You can see that really in the finished product, you know, and so I think your dog as a producer and kind of the helm of the project is just about that tone by just kind of having a steadiness to your attitude. I don't think it's a better, usually how many things go. Amy's exactly right.
I mean, you know, it really just, I mean, that is the thing I think like I said, you know, you're weathering the storm, you know, I mean, it's like, you've got a budget, you know, the storm. You've got a budget, you know, like the budget's always, the budget's always going to be an issue, you know, and I had this camera guy or this DP once said to me, you know how many lights a DP needs? And I said, what, how many just one more? Just one more.
You know, everybody needs another light. Everybody needs that. And you know, it's like the more that you can just kind of try and do your best, even during those times to enjoy the process, you know, it'll be in reflect and it'll trickle down and trickle. Let's let's wrap up with what excites you about the world right now in terms of media and where it's going and what's happening.
What are you looking at? What I'm excited about is that, and I think that, and there is obviously a lot more outlets. I love that, you know, more savvy and then I have no idea what we're talking about. It's more like, okay, I think we're saying it behind it.
I'm very excited about that. I'm really, like I said, I'm really, really excited about the fact that last year. And that great flexibility, Amy, like you were talking about before, where you bring, you bring the story to the platform instead of bringing the platform to the story. So if something is for, and it's long, it's long, if something is five episodes of 20, then it's five episodes of 20.
Like, that's just how long it is. That's exactly right. You know, I think that the other, you know, it goes back to the thing, it's all about my time. And it's like if the content feels like it should be three minutes, right?
You know, if it should be 35 minutes, that's great. You know, and I like, and I'm very, very excited about the fact that a lot of these platforms and networks are starting to say, hey, look, if it's, you know, it's quarter hour great, this would have our great, you know, and that's really cool. Yeah, and I think the other thing is, you know, there are more and more network executives taking more risks on kind of new talent. So granted, that's a harder sell.
You know, sometimes you still need a big show runner or, you know, a big EP attachment or whatever that might be to push it through. But a lot of the times you're seeing that, you know, you can walk into a room and get something made if you have a good concept and a good up and coming voice, you know, and a good presentation of some sort of proving that this is the right voice to carry this project through. I think it's exciting to see so many new young show runners that people are taking chances on and that they're being successful. And, you know, kind of pieces of content, I think networks are now more willing to kind of blur the lines between roles a little more, you know, and so it's like, well, this person can be the writer and director or this person can be the creator and to the piece of talent and, you know, not separating those roles so traditionally, because I think it makes for, you know, more people's passion projects getting made which are usually the best.
And one of the things that's come up a couple of times in various episodes, this idea that digital content is not being created just to sell something else, but that content is created to stand on its own. It's not supplementary. Is it something? Yeah, no, that's exactly right.
I definitely agree with that. You know what I think that this idea that, you know, why not entertain? And what's the, you know, why not try and create, you know, great content that can stay in the world regardless of it, you know, it all or brain, I think that now we're seeing the lines are being so blurred. And I don't think that's a bad thing.
Well said. So thank you guys both very much for being on the show. It's been a pleasure talking to you and getting to know a little bit more about the work you do. Really, really appreciate it.
Thank you. Absolutely, and give them a treat for me. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Produce by more information about the producers guild, find us on the web at www.producerskilled.org. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube at producers guild. In the meantime, help us out by subscribing, commenting and sharing wherever you get your podcasts. It helps other people find us and lets us know how we're doing.
Until next time, I'm your host Kevin Fairchild.