Lake Bell

Hello, hello. Welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Monica Shepard, and I'm joined by Dax Padman. Oh.

Which one is which? Good question. Do you want to hold on your first name or your last name? Oh, I'd like to get rid of my last name.

Okay, so you're Monica Shepard, and I'm Dax Padman. I like that. Dax Padman. You like it?

I do. It sounds very strong, yeah. Okay. Dax Padman from A.

I think you like the man is in A. Yeah, like Daxman. Yeah. Yeah, Daxman Randy Savage.

Today, my wife's on the show. That's right, but not the original Belle. Not the real wife. The television wife.

Yep. Lake Bell, I should say, or parody, I'm Lake Bell's husband. Oh, I like that, yeah. Okay, great.

So, I'm Lake Bell's husband. I'm the show, Bless This Mess, but you know her from many different projects. She's an actress, a director, a screenwriter. She made the movie, In a World, I Do Until I Don't.

She's in No Strings Attached. It's complicated. Anyways, I adore her. We had a lot of fun working together, and we had an amazing time chatting together, and I hope you'll enjoy Lake Bell.

He's an old chariot's boy. He's an old chariot's boy. He's an old chariot's boy. Listen, I'm feeling a lot of your heavy.

A lot of our musks. A lot of our heavy breathing. What do you call female musk, or is it all musk? Any kind of...

Well, that's what you call it. I mean, more like, he had a musk to him. You know, like a musk ox. Stink?

Yeah, like a strong pheromone. Yeah, I don't know. She had a stink. You know what, the guy had the musk, and she had a stink.

Oh, yeah, that could be hot. Yeah. In the right context, if you said it, well, we've had many conversations like this. I think both of our sensibility leans towards the perverse in some ways.

Yes, absolutely. So, I have to imagine, there's been a moment in your life where you were, like, let's say, on my perverse brain is more in situational, like, I want to, like, talk about situations. Sure. Where I'm, like, tell me more.

When it gets more sort of in the room, if you will, and I'm, like... More 3D. Yeah, when it's 4D. Yeah, yeah.

3D, yes, but also 4D, which is sensory in the... Yeah, olfactory. Olfactory. Yeah.

It is a pheromone issue. It is a pheromone issue, and again, can go good or bad. It can be fair. It can be unfair amounts.

But just so people are clear on what perversion we're talking about, similarly, I had a very similar relationship with Joy, which you have some overlap. We also played Wives, also went to Westminster. Crazy. It's a lot of craziness.

And so, you and I, so Joy and I was a particular sound man. We had a sound guy who was very large and handsome and had a lot of mojo. He let us in on this fact that he plays piano on the beach when he goes on vacation, and he wears a veto. For six years, we were often racist about what this guy's doing when he gets home, where are all of his moves.

And then you and I, similarly... Seth. Well, Seth, we're just... Oh, Seth, we're just...

And Monica, too. Oh, yeah, you're after on this podcast. Gorgeous. Oh, good.

That's what we talked about. Oh, good. I'm glad he's living on. And he gave Monica a double handshake.

It's my favorite. Oh, give me so... Just so it was like a hand hug on you firmly. And then deep, deep into the pupils.

But he is one of those people who is unafraid of holding your eyeballs. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah. Scary.

Oh, yeah. Oh, mixed messages. You like that, don't you? Yeah, right?

Just like push and pull. Now, Seth, he's in his own category. I'm talking more about... And I'm not going to name any names because we don't make anyone self-conscious on the set.

Yes. More we've isolated other members and then just took a gander at what their private life is like. We like to just kind of detail, you know, where would this gentleman take a lady to dinner? What would the moves be?

What would he order? What is his, you know, what's he putting out there on this date? What comes after the date? Does he wear cologne or not?

I think it's a really big thing. And we talked about musk earlier. Yes, yes. Do they need to put on an artificial musk to entice?

That's a very specific person. Also, my husband and I talk about this a lot. Are you a half an arm backpacker or are you a double arm backpacker? Do you think that's a big litmus test for people's character?

Kind of. In broad strokes terms, out of the gate, you're like... Thin slicing. Blink.

Yeah. You get blank. He does this thing called Whole Glory, which is like really interesting. It's a little play on Glory Hole.

But basically, Whole Glory is this sort of art installation that is this large wall that's like an art piece. And there's a hole in the middle of it and a black chair. And he does a raffle for people. And people like line up for this thing in all countries, all cities, everywhere.

And he is sitting behind the wall. And whoever wins the raffle sits in the chair and puts their arm through the hole. And you don't know if you're going to be there for five minutes or you're going to be there for five hours. But you will get tattooed by Scott.

And you will wrap it in black fabric. And then you pull it back out. And everyone gathers around. And then unveiled.

And then they see what they have forever. Wow. Some people put their arm through the hole. Sometimes they have a myriad of tattoos.

And sometimes they have a nut. Wow. So, you know, it's almost like palm reading in a weird way. Because he's very intuitive, Scott.

And you put that arm through. And there's like stories on hand and arm. Like, okay, well, first of all, the first thing would be, do they have other tattoos, right? Do you see like a peak of one up at the top of the arm?

Or, you know, do you kind of get a sense of what age, maybe what gender, maybe not? You know, but all of these cues. Do they wear a watch? Do they not?

You know, is it a wedding in band? You know, it's like all of these. Whoa, that is awesome. Yeah, so let's back up.

Your husband, Scott Campbell, is a very accomplished tattoo artist. And then an artist at large in many, many ways. A bunch of interesting stuff he does. Yes.

He's very unique. He was born and raised in Louisiana and Texas. He's like a Southern boy, you know? And he's very capable of sort of like left home very early.

On the surface, you guys are opposites. Just on the surface. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

For sure. He's out of Manhattan. Right. You know, I was a debutante.

Different socioeconomic background. My dad was a wealthy man. A Jewish man. A Jewish man.

My mom was very waspy. Scott, you know, grew up in the bayou of Louisiana. And that sounds like such like a falsehood. But actually, quite literally, it was like the swamps of Louisiana.

Let's just say, had there been a Leonard Skinner album that he was just on the cover of in the 70s, you'd go perfect fit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The only blind date in my life.

What? Was with your husband. Oh, yeah. That's right.

Yes. You and my wife fixed us up on a blind date. You know this one? No.

Double bell. Double blind date. Yeah. So I think Kristen said, hey, I was talking to Lake and you and Scott are going to hang out.

You're going to bring Nova and Delta back to the house. And you guys are going to go swimming. I think I remember this, actually. And I was maybe floating around at that time.

I was like, all right, let's do this. You know, there was enough cues on the table. It was also because Nova and Delta, they're just like, they're both sparkly magic people, you know? They are not opposites.

They are the same. Yeah. They're like, bonkers. We're wacky.

We're bonkers. We're like, just for the extra. That's for the people. They went to preschool together.

And they don't know where Nova goes to different schools. But that's where you and I first kind of. We came to the chat. Yeah.

Let me just say, the date went spectacular. We ended up extending it. We ordered Shake Shack. We had to have that conversation.

That parents in LA. Like, what will your kids eat? Your kids eat. I'm sorry.

What are we doing? Are we doing paleo for these kids? Are you a French pie family? Yeah.

But we were like, fucking Shake Shack. Bring it on. Protein carbs. Let's get these kids ripped and bulky.

It was really fun. We had a great, great time. Okay. This art installation.

So that's incredible. And you know how when they auditioned with symphony musicians, they put a sheet in front of them, right? So that the people that they're auditioning in front of can't make any assertions based on there. So there's no bias going on.

You're just hearing the music. Scott is similarly doing that because there could be a granny on the other end of that muscular forearm. Yeah. Very built granny.

No, I think that's what's interesting about it. You know, traditionally tattooing is very intimate. You sit with this person that either you know very well or you don't. And either way, it's complicated.

So you have to sit down and are you going to converse with them the whole time? I mean, he has like therapy sessions with people. You know, it's like people come to get a tattoo for this very extraordinary reason of they want to mark their body for the rest of their life. And so in that, that's emotional.

That's personal. You're then consulting with this person. You're representing my children or. Well, the level of trust you're extending this stranger can only be surpassed by like a surgeon.

Yeah. I mean, it is very precise. It is surgeon-like. And I'd almost rather have a botched heart valve than something visual.

Yeah. Yeah. Just because I'm vain. You know, I could just walk slower with my bad valve.

Sure. Like a micro valve prolapse. I'm like, yeah, no, I think about it. And it's like people who have lost a loved one come to Scott.

If they're in recovery on something, they need a stamp to remind them of their resolve or their commitment to something. It's a profound thing. You don't just like, oh, you know what? At four, I'm tattooing someone.

I'm like, I know what that is. You know, that's like a whole thing. Do you have tattoos? You do that?

I do. I didn't have them forever. And I liked being like, I am a blank canvas, you know, and he is all covered. You know, like that was like a fun thing.

Yeah. I think I was kind of like, I've made it this far without having a tattoo. Like, what am I going to get a tattoo in my 30s? And then I had Nova.

And I remember I was so tired when I just like couldn't believe what parenthood was. And there was like on a random Tuesday night, he gave me this little heart that he has on his hand too. It was more just born from a conversation. Like, I'm curious.

Like, what does it feel like? Like, what is that? And he was like, you want me to show you? And I was like, okay, I'm tired.

Just do it because I'm just going to cry again. And it being my kid. But if you wanted to feel it, I might have gone with your heel or something. He's very like.

All in. Yes. Captain All In. Tell him about the tattoo he gave himself.

Yes. His whole thing is people think like, oh, it's so fucking cool to be a Lefario. You know, like fucking date and fuck a lot of women. Okay.

His thing was like, it is so much more bold to just be like, I love you. I love you so hard. I'm all in. Okay.

And he would take that chance. Are you meeting me there? Right. And that's really jumping out of the plane.

Like, oh. Yeah. So when I met him, we both had, obviously there's that chemical thing. And he was like, I'm all in.

Are you? And I was like, yes. Because I was like intoxicated with just all of it. And it was just right.

But then nine days in, he came to visit me. We were living in French towns. And yes, he's covered. And yes, he describes himself as the bathroom walls had CBGB in terms of the visual.

Because it's just from neck to toe tattoos. However, he arrived. And we, I will say, we had sex. He made love.

He made love. You know, yeah. Intercourse. Sexual intercourse.

Intercourse through sexuality. So when we were post-coitus, you know, we're obviously naked. Oh, you guys make love naked. Yes.

It's just different than a lot of people. He's almost like wearing clothes when he's naked even because he's got so many tattoos that it is kind of like a sheath of something. Anyway, so we're there. And I knew he had gotten a tattoo because I called him at some point.

He was like still on the table. I'm like, oh, you're really getting tattooed for a long time. Can't we? And I was like, oh, what'd you get?

You know? And he turns. And on the side of his whole body from like rib. Latissimus to hip bone.

Exactly. Latissimus to kind of like mid thigh. Oh, Jennifer, that deep. Yeah.

Is the word lake with a huge rose in old English. And I was like, wow. I just looked at him. And I was like, it was 90 days.

You were 90 days. And I literally had no words. And then I looked at his face. And he was like, oh, yeah, I forgot to show you.

Oh, God bless you. First of all, you made the right choice. He's a wonderful human being. But also, good for you.

Because I would have been absolutely terrified. I would have been so terrified. I mean, if he was, no tattoos. Right.

Do you know what I'm saying? Because his whole thing is like, look, I got it. You know, I think, you know, one of the girls at the tattoo shop who works there, Michelle Siren Pelley, she was like, oh, shit. She was like, did she know you did that?

And he's like, no, no. I didn't tell her. And she's like, oh, shit, you're stupid. She was like, you're fucking stupid.

It obviously went over. Well, I was like, wow. And he just stopped me. And he was like, look, don't worry.

I already thought about it. If it doesn't work out, I'll just put like an R and an S. And I'll get into Kobe. I'll add a little purple.

Yeah, it's a noun. So in a way, you know what I mean? You're good. But really quick, were you a commitment folk?

I just never understood relationships. I didn't have a great respect for marriage or the concept of deep and meaningful commitment because I came from a family where my dad has corrected me since then because I used to say I come from a myriad of divorces, right? But my dad said, well, wait a second. I had one divorce with your mom.

And then I've stayed with the same woman for, you know, over 30 years or whatever it is. That is great. That's successful. I feel like, you know, my mom who has had two divorces, there's just a lot of divorce in general.

And I don't fault my mom. I'm actually really impressed with what it looks like to have different chapters in your life. Even the strength for like two people to be like, hey, you know what? We had a successful marriage.

We did 10 plus years and we created children together, had homes together. We forged a beautiful life together. Like there's something really successful about that. I agree.

A lot of people will like, they'll have 12 years, they'll relapse and they'll come get another year. And they're just so crestfallen about having relapse. And I'm like, no, no, no. For the last 13 of your life, 12 of the years you were sober.

For an addict, that's fucking an enormous accomplishment. It's huge. We measure stuff weird as a people. I think you have to have faith that it's okay to have chapters.

You know what I mean? It's actually part of our evolution, I think, as humans. It's like a privilege. Yeah.

And that there's a quality versus quantity argument to be made in all situations on all topics, basically. Because I've known people that were married for four years and I wouldn't see five days in that marriage as an accomplishment. And that's what I'm trying to figure out, too, just as I'm married and didn't have an understanding of what the fuck we were all doing. It felt archaic.

I was like, didn't we start marriage when like there was land ownership and we had to like combine land and like it was just such like an antiquated system. It was an economic model. Absolutely. And I understand it through that lens.

But then also, we also died at 40. So it was like, you know, for life was like not that bad. That's not yet. You know, that's not that big of a deal.

It was a fair commitment. You know? Well, when I was with Bree, we watched the 60 Minutes where this guy was saying they're going to isolate the gene that turns on aging. So I said, you know, I'm going to get that procedure for myself when it becomes available.

I don't know if I'll be able to afford it for you. But I promise I will stay with you until you die. But I will then be with many other people. And I thought that was very romantic of me.

Because I would have been stuck in my, I would have been like 30 with a 100 year old lady. Well, and there's something you wouldn't want. Yeah. I probably would have on my way into that.

Yeah. You're like, this is for me in some sort of sorted. Helping her out of her wheelchair and stuff. Or just keep a wheelchair.

Yeah. Just go with a wheelchair. What then shifted for you in your brain that made you think like, okay, I will get married? Well, I think someone like me who's like, I don't know if I'm getting on board with this fucking shit.

I think you have to meet someone who's like, oh, this is bravery. You're thinking like it's cooler to be like, oh, fucking bail when the going gets rough. And he's sort of like, no, if you feel it, you feel it. And by the way, you also need to be deeply, you feel something different.

Right. It gets your attention to get you on board with the concept of committing. And now I think that where I'm on board with it is that when we're in a relationship and we kind of bail out of the relationship when shit gets rough or if the person calls you out on stuff, that in a way is not evolving. You cannot continue to really grow.

This is just my personal opinion. Everyone's like, that's not true. But like, I feel in a marriage is where you have to look at your shit in the mirror and have to deal with it because this other person is very comfortable with you, sees all of your shit and will call you out on things that you weren't even aware of. And so that is, I think, a human privilege to be able to grow, to evolve, to go to the next level, to take on new chapters.

You can do that with one person, but you have to be comfortable with criticism and alternate. Well, I feel like you're kind of entering the dynamic of a pilot co-pilot. The co-pilot's singular job is to be looking for mistakes in the pilot. That's how it's safe in there.

And so your partner has a view of the forest that you don't have. You're in the trees and you're dealing with your stuff as it comes up. But if someone on the outside is not getting emotional about all these things and can just kind of see the whole pattern, like I certainly can see patterns with Belle that she can't see and vice versa. I don't want to say there's a sign of maturity, but definitely when I was younger, I was looking for a partner who fit perfectly in this jigsaw puzzle and caused the least amount of conflict possible and that would let me run my show the way I wanted to.

And someone that was, you know, worked well with that. Oh, yeah. And with Belle, not even intentionally, but maybe somehow sign of maturity, I was like, oh, no, no, this person has things I want in character, some approach that I wish I knew how to take. And I want to learn from this person and hopefully get infected by the things I admire about them.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think we realize when we choose our forever partner, I don't think we realize that I'm going to evolve because of them. But then when kids get involved. you know it's like that's where the marriage and the relationship is tested in a different way it really puts a fire on your feet because when it's just the two of you working it out or compromising let's just say for example when we first met we were just talking we were in a while i'll never forget it i could point to the place on the road where i said this somehow came up and i said oh so you believe in jesus like that jesus is the son of god he came down and he died for everyone's sins and she goes yeah i definitely believe that and i was like oh that's a big problem for me personally because i don't think that way but then i just was like oh is it a problem for me big deal she thinks that i don't think this and for the first time ever i was in no hurry to try to win her over to my side of anything whatever yeah she can exist in her own identity and think what she thinks and i can think it's easier to take that laid-back view of it when it's just the two of you but who knows where this will end up who knows how maybe i'll become a christian maybe she will not be christian who knows what's gonna happen when you have kids it feels immediate that the compromise has to be figured out today because you're about to enact some kind of policy yes and that's what i think puts the screws on the relationship yeah i mean it's second to second minute to minute at all times this is sort of interesting coming back to the tattoo thing but talks to parenting which is like you go through such fucking big and little things with parenting and you know there was something about when we were single the identity of being like no tattooed and like you're gonna play the persona like the tattooed one and then you get married and you have kids and when you have kids all of a sudden it's like how do we keep them alive and make sure that they're good people very basic things it has nothing to do with like vanity for a second right forever even if you can come back in just for the sake of like yourself and for your sexuality or your attraction but like there's something just so holistically base and simple and basic right and when we had two home births right so my first with nova was in brooklyn and i felt very empowered like scott and i had gone through a schism in our relationship for the first time before we got pregnant that was cataclysmic for two people who were just like we're just a tornado of love and then it was like whoa first major schism we're pregnant you know and it was like oh god now we gotta fix the pieces whilst you know me being like what's happening to my body and anyway so the home birth was like this amazing kind of bonding you know he was holding me and i'm like on the ground and blood and sweat and that's just like birth you know yeah a human explosion yes exactly and when my daughter came out she had a cord wrapped around her neck the umbilical cord and it was very scary she was on my chest and she wasn't breathing the midwife gave her three life-saving breaths on my chest and my husband was there and she came to life and we were like we are here and of course when you've just birthed you're not like crying that's all surface right this is like is she okay she is good you know and that's what it is like a wildebeest yeah you're like is it okay right it isn't okay is she not with us she is or she is it's literally not like yes it's black and white especially you have no drugs through you you're just like i am in this experience like an animal yeah and so i felt very empowered by that experience right so after you go through that and then you go through marriage shit and parenting and oh my god this is insane we've talked about then i got pregnant again and this time we were in la and i said i want home birth again and we had ozzy at home i was huge he was 11 pounds oh that's too big like that's just too big it is but the same thing happened so i was at home and he had the cord wrapped around and he was on my chest and he was not coming to and that is seen you're with your husband and now you're in fucking real life okay your child is there and you know the entire room is trying to resuscitate him and they can't and the paramedics are on their way he's still there oh this person you don't know oh there's like the apex of powerlessness yeah yeah and my husband's fucking capable and he is paramedic now but he literally certified you know he we couldn't get him to come to oh so there's this little man that i don't even know and the paramedics come in the cord is still on so he has oxygen through my blood and then they cut the cord and scott ran out half naked i was naked after my you know seven hours of believing scott ran out with ozzy and got in an ambulance got in an ambulance and then the midwife says to me shaking you need to work the placenta and i was like usually the way it was nova you have your baby on your chest yeah and your body instinctually knows what you know because also there's all this like oxytocin you're in the surging area so the milk comes that's how your body's built it's an amazing beautiful machine you know yeah system i couldn't it was all arrested yeah and so they had to give me pitocin and then it came out oh my god and doesn't it get people to induce labor so they have to induce your placenta and all midwives have that so yeah they traditionally do that they give you a hit of pitocin right at the end to birth the placenta at home okay so that you don't bleed out basically okay so then you know you do that and then of course i was 11 pounds i need to be sewn up so they take you to the bed and i just was like looking at my phone and they were like sewing me out as i'm looking at my phone and i get a little video from scott seeing a little ozzy just barely taking breaths with the oxygen mask going oh and i just passed out oh because i was like and i just passed out yeah and then and where i'm going with it is that this is the kind of shit you deal with when you are married when you have children and that life and death is imminently a part of your existence and your daily commute in life and he was in the NICU for 11 days he was hypoxic he was without oxygen for longer than the four minutes that is associated with being okay and wow children's hospital los angeles saved his life wow he was on a cold bed for 72 hours why are they on a cold bed because it slows any brain trauma basically they found children who had fallen in ice lakes or something right oh right undergone um trauma yeah that actually their results had been better than safety yeah who hadn't so and so yeah they had him on a cold bed so here's your little person you know and he's intubated and he has and you must of wires and tubes all over and at this point you must have fear that oh no he might not ever be cognizant and alert and all these things right and i'm in a wheelchair because i'm bleeding i can't even walk after birthing 11 pound baby at home and my mental state is not well my husband and i both got there every night we were told that he could be cerebral palsy or never walk or talk and that was our reality and i never shared the story but i share it because i think you know it's also really important to know that when you step through life with someone and also i think it's ozzy's story i'm proud of him and i'm proud of walking out of that hospital you know with a clean bill of health and you know you don't know the brain is deeply complex and our neurologist was saying that you know you can look at an mri of a medical student and a person with cerebral palsy and they can have a similar mri right it's very confusing that things aren't clear cut and set and still very mercurial and strange and mysterious and so we did walk out with an mri after just the most egregious up and down of my entire life i mean i was medicated after in order to walk yeah i remember driving to the hospital every day because you know i had nova too you know i had to be mom she was what too she was gonna have i remember they were driving to the hospital not knowing how to look down at people on the street because there would be all these like little flashes of life where you see a mother trying to get her son into the gabby on car seat or whatever we can get in there please i said no i'm not gonna say it twice you know and you see it and and i'm like i don't know if i'll get to yell at my son you know what i mean she doesn't know how lucky she is in that moment i get very in the weeds obsessed with everything of course and so i would just like crane my eye line up and i would just look at the sky and the clouds and i would be like oh that's constant okay it's just the sky yep still doing its thing up there you know like it helped like when you're in very traumatic situations i think you have to like lock on to something in nature or that is unmoving unchanging unwavering forever yes stay tuned for more if you dare so my wiring is such that i would have gone to guilt shame i didn't protect somehow this is my fault i would take on all that terrible you took that i took it on because i was insistent to have a home birth and i dealt with that since you know obviously you can blame the midwife you can blame yourself but ultimately the result is the only thing that matters right so i've gone through therapy i was medicated for like a year and a half and i did wean myself off but i was on antidepressants to help me kind of regulate i mean i barely take that though but i was like oh this is absolutely imperative in order for me to function and i think that pregnancy and birth and particularly labor and birth experiencing it twice now and being in your house is very strange you know there was like blood on our sheets and i wouldn't let scott clean them but this was for nova's birth which was very positive but like you know we literally left that house you know right yeah with nova's birth i was like i fucking earned the shit out of that i was like nope keep it right there yeah which is maybe people like girls but i really it was like war but what i find about labor and birth is that it's the most extraordinary ordinary thing because every motherfucker goes through it most women regardless of social nevo or you know background or race or religion there's no getting out of it that it hurts or that it's extraordinary or that it's life and death and high stakes it just is what it is and i remember being like mid-labor and looking to my midwife and saying is this what people do is this what people do is this what people are doing and she was like yeah but okay so after all this malarkey and all this insanity and all this amazing magical mayhem i said to scott after i was like weaning off of my meds and i had this incredible little boy who we rolled over at two months and then he started walking at nine months as if to say mom i got this yeah you can let yourself off the hook bitch yeah i'm working my dad up these milestones early so you can chill the fuck out and i said to scott i was like i want a tattoo and i want my children's names because it doesn't matter anymore that i'm like the one without it doesn't all that's a fake story all these identity markers i was like i need to be stamped with my children on either side of me like warrior pain i didn't ask and look i'm a deeply vulnerable person i have a lot of opinions but i literally came to him and i was like you do whatever you want you know me but back to your earlier point you guys will probably die holding hands so let's hope but regardless of whatever your future holds your point about it being a successful relationship the fact that you two went through that experience together and you were there for each other in a myriad ways that's a huge success it's a humongous success as far as just meeting another human on planet earth sharing something with them helping each other that's like about as good as it gets totally you don't know you really don't know where your relationship is because i think that's what i learned the most you know you usually go through seismic shit like you're like i'm gonna get married to you and that means i gotta like you enough and love you enough not to like walk through the world together you know it's like you have to be able to shovel shit together yeah and still like each other after i think it'll teach you patience because it's going to blow at times it's going to be great at times and if you can hold on to a kernel of hope at all times that oh we've been through a lot of shit and likely we will get through this shit and i can be patient and i can hold on to the kernel of hope also i think the thing i was learning because i am a child of divorce i used to say to my mom i don't like mad which is like she always brings it up with me i just said i don't like mad and that was when people were arguing or someone angry at me i still don't like mad and i don't like i don't mad i don't like people being mad at me and so that's an interesting thing that when you're in a committed relationship as an adult you have to be comfortable when people are mad at you it's okay it doesn't mean you're gonna die exactly you're are you the oldest you're the first one i'm the middleist you're the middleist i have two younger sisters oh who are half and then i have my older brother one of one i'm in love with you you're in love with josie i think uh the song firework perhaps was written about her i don't know she's one of the greats but even more attractive than her was her then i don't know where they're at now her then boyfriend who was an ad seal whose body is just it could rival charlie's it is really i could show you yeah and i could not stop looking at these pictures right when i met her she was talking about me shirtless photos yeah and then we just sat there yeah i'm sure he chose dick yeah of course i gotta see what's happening yeah great arrows really great arrows oh my god monica did you want to say something my spidey senses were saying well i said i love your shoes lake has awesome shoes oh she's got all around great style yeah i do and we're a shoe person you're not mine don't look at mine i'm looking at so sorry i can't now that you've told me not to i just can't even that's the only thing i can look at okay so we're talking a lot about womanhood in a lot of ways i think there's an interesting trajectory that you've been on professionally that i think overlaps really well with that topic in your lifetime having acted starting at a young age you went to college in england you were in plays in london you came out and you started working really quickly yeah that my first thing was probably like 22 or 22 did you ever see me no i know it was a big cast you know what i mean i was like on a different thread i was just like a guest star on the side and i had to vomit that was my first yeah my first role in the movie was vomiteer at party yes it actually says it on imdb vomiteer at party it's hard to do it is hard because you have to hold pea soup in your mouth yeah yeah for a long time because it was one of those really long steadicam shots where it was like a girl comes in come on you know like in the cold open like it blows through and there's like a hundred things happening and then it lands on me and i go like that and that's that you know when you can ruin an eight minute shot it's got to be the most stressful thing i think tanya had a story about that like the shot nine minutes later lands on him he's forgotten his line it's really bad i was like lake you better fucking nail this okay you had to drama school in england for four years you studied the classic elizabethan dramas you better vomit like nobody's business this is it and we've talked to a couple different actors that were in this position where you've had roles that likely won't exist in the future it's so true i thought about it recently too where i was like oh i will never probably have to wear a push-up bra like that ever again for work and also just the architecture of the old man and the young wife because we had evan rachel wood who has been you know maybe in four movies married someone 20 years older than and she's a very empowered woman you're a very empowered woman and that's what was on the table uh 15 years ago i don't really know that any movies are getting greenlit right now where like there's a 55 year old guy going through a midlife crisis and i know i remember on boston legal i was so jazzed to be there and i i was basically hired to be this 24 year old fresh out of law school lawyer who wanted to what like i'm still powerful but i'm gonna dress like a poker like that was like like literally part of my description oh my god brains for days ass for days it's got all of those like character descriptions of women um it's really hilarious we get into it so i really i was one of those the push-up i remember like coming to my dressing room it was just like only sort of like push-up bras like big old but and by the way i had huge boobs i don't even have two kids but like it was just like outrageous fat naturals that's what we call them oh we call them faturals fat naturals or faturals but ph okay this is one of the few things i know about you personally i think it's probably a lot more relatable than i would have ever given it credit for which is you told me at dinner once you just kind of woke up in this crazy body that men could not ignore and that you were very interested in people's intelligence and their worldview and you love getting into it and talking in furious debate and passion debate and having to remember like oh these fucking guys they can't get past this thing yeah because i was like really underdeveloped in my sexuality but like very physically developed your body really outpaced yeah yeah it was like typical thing like i was really scrawny his kid right like i really was though so like sorry like that's just a fucking i was very scrawny and you know it was like lake has no waves you know how your name is lake there's a lot of that right so you know i'm gonna jump in the waves you know a little bit So it was unsettling, but cool because I definitely was like very scrawny and then came into this like body that was like very voluptuous or whatever.

And I remember I'd gone to France as a kid for like school year abroad or whatever. I ate so much food there. I remember when I came back from France, like I gained a lot of weight from, you know, and you know, you're 16 and you're an idiot and you're like, I'm so fat or whatever. And then you realize, oh, no, no, no, no.

You just have boobs. And so then it was like, oh, oh, this is like some cool accessory that I can like utilize. It's a paradox. It's nice to get attention.

Of course, you don't want the attention to be about that at times. Like you were kind of like, oh, you'd like look at magazines and stuff and be like, oh, if I wear this kind of clothes, I can look like that magazine. And that's kind of cool because like, well, then I'm thinking they're cool. I'm like, oh, that looks hot and sexy or whatever.

I'm exploring sexuality in my body. But I was like not ready yet to actually do anything. I just was like interested in expressing sexually my, you know, physicality. So I learned really quickly to utilize it and then desexualize situations.

Oh, if I wanted the attention of someone, I didn't understand what I was doing, I think. Right, right, right. Like 17, 18, where you're like, oh, I can get the attention of this person. Now they're paying attention to me.

And so I got them in here. Now I can actually talk to them and like, be funny. Like they can be funny back. My bachelor's got me in the door, but now it's time to talk about metaphysics.

Yeah. And then they'd be like, we're fucking, you know, like what? Yeah, yeah. So I guess I'm just curious how that played into then initially having roles where it's very on display that you're hot.

In a similar way that when you're intimate in roles and stuff like that, it's not real. You're playing out of character and it felt good in a way to be like sexy. Right? It's an incredibly powerful thing.

Yeah, it felt powerful. And I think especially as I started to direct, I remember the same year I directed In A World and it went to Sundance. That was the same year I was on the cover of Esquire, Naked. And also I think New York Magazine, Naked.

I remember getting confusion from that. Definitely my dad was like annoyed with it. But let's roll it back a little bit. I felt, this was my MO.

It was like, well, why does my sexuality and my femininity have to be curved? Because I wrote and directed a movie. Right. I was just trying to figure that out.

I was like, it feels really hot to be in a visual that's like a beautiful image that makes me feel like fucking like, now you're uncomfortable, motherfucker. You know, I'm standing here naked and you know, you're simply the one having a problem with it. Right? So that was the thing.

Sure. But then in hindsight, and now as I sit here, I don't know if it's an age thing, especially nowadays. Like, I don't think anyone really needs to be on the cover of a magazine fully naked as a woman. I don't know.

I'm like struggling with it a little bit. I'm kind of like, why are we doing that? I think the whole thing is like individually how you feel about it. Right.

If you love being naked, go for it. And if you'd like to be covered up, you know, either or you should be respected either way. I think I used to like it. Maybe I don't like it as much now in the same breath.

You know, when I do a photo shoot and I am dressed sexy or whatever it is, I still can access what's beautiful about that and powerful. Right. It's just like the conversation in my mind is still there and I don't have to have a definitive answer about how I feel about it. But it's evolving right now where I'm like, hmm, interesting.

I speak to other friends of mine who are like big movie stars and they're kind of like, yeah, what were we doing? Why are we on the cover of a magazine with our underwear on? It's my underwear. Like, what were we doing?

Like, there's a little bit of that going on. Sure. But then again, I would also argue, although probably not the majority. We're not talking about the majority.

There are women that are very visually stimulated. They like nudity. I love nudity. I want to see everyone naked.

Sure. And I'm sure there are women that feel like me. I don't think it's majority, but certainly some women are like, they love nudity. I feel like I agree with you.

It's compelling. I just don't like when someone parks their own insecurities on someone else and tries to make a thing out of it. Like, you might not feel comfortable doing that. That's fine.

But you shouldn't. Because I think it's like, because historically in this business, the identification is so insane. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Unannibal. So I think what you're saying, if as society, we're saying women can be in their skivvies and should be in their skivvies, even though they're really intellectually interesting or compelling or badass motherfucking actors or creators or whatever, but they're in their underwear. Like, that's the normal. That's where I start to get confused.

Where I go, wait, why? Yeah. Why is that the thing we're showcasing about a person? It's like if Einstein was on a cover of his dick out.

Or it's like in his underwear. In a revealing bathing suit. Einstein. Or if in every interview he had to talk about his dick size at some point.

Yes. We just wouldn't. Do you want to cover it? I would love to.

It would be one of my first questions to Einstein. Because he has BDE. I mean, that hairstyle. He has some confidence.

So you do a bunch of things. You did a bunch of movies. I just got to say, I read it today. And I just want to applaud the fact that you date Colin Farrell for a second after you guys work together.

I thought you got that. Okay. Okay. Thank God you did.

He just had that time for me. He was the only one rivaling Brad Pitt. I just could stare at him. Because we did Pride and Glory together.

It was like one of my first really kind of fancy movies that I've ever done. And I remember sort of seeing him from afar and being like, well, that guy, you know, seems to not know how to not curse on camera. What's up with that? Like, he's an incredible person and very magnetic.

And I think that there's like poetic and like very romantic. And I feel like unexpected, I think, is what's the most. Mixed messages. I'm not very attractive.

We love mixed messages. But yeah. I mean, he was just cool. I was like, Jesus Christ.

I felt so cool to be in that movie. You know, it's like John Boyd and like Ed Norton. Yeah. And we discovered Brie was Gavin's assistant on that movie, which is such a bizarre.

Yeah. Crazy. So once you had the opportunity, you directed a short was the first thing you did. Right.

I directed Worst Enemy. Worst Enemy. And was there someone you were like, oh, that's the career that I want? I didn't have necessarily anyone that I was.

Oh, I want to be like that person. If anything, it was like, you know, a different time. But I was obsessed with me. I grew up with them.

King of Comedy was my favorite movie at the time, even though it's not Woody. And I was like, I'm so just like turned on my beautiful visuals. And my mom's an interior decorator and very visual. I grew up looking at, you know, just architecture and texture and color.

And literally she would think about like how the light comes in a room and how white looks different on the wall over there than it does the wall near here. You know, it's like I was very, very sensitive to visuals. That explains Palindra. I'll continue.

And so that mixed with my being attracted to great comedic films, I was like, yeah, I want to make something. I wrote in a world, actually, the feature of it almost closeted. Like I did it while I was shooting How to Get in America. I wrote it before I made Worst Enemy, but I took it to my agent.

And he said, well, you know, we shopped for directors on it. And as we were shopping, he's like, he's like, I feel like I'm going to find the right director for this. Why don't you do it? And I was like, are you kidding me?

I would never direct something if I'd never directed anything before. I'd never write a short film and fucking direct that. And so that's a great idea. So I wrote Worst Enemy in like three days or something.

And I just was like, let's do this. And the long story, I love Miranda July. I thought she was incredible. You know, she just was somebody who was like a beautiful spirit animal to kind of guide me a little bit.

So at the same time, like 2008-ish, I guess, is Children's Hospital. You get on that. So did you seek out like a comedic expression or did they find you? How did you start steering in that direction?

So because I was doing all drama and literally couldn't get hired on comedies. I think at the time I was going out for like hot girl stuff, you know, again, the big naturals, if you will. I like that you guys call them big naturals. Well, I don't.

I don't. No, no, I mean her camp. Oh, oh, oh, oh. We're in the fat naturals camp.

She's in the big naturals. Big is just such a clumsy word. No, I actually like, okay, my problem with the whole phrase in general was the fat portion of it. So I like big naturals.

I might convert. Whoa, wow, wow, wow. There's a schism. Anyway, so the point is, I think I did Mismatch was the first slightly comedic, right?

I was like the brunette best friend of Lisa Silverstone on the Darren Star Show, right? My brother, we're like doing bits, you know, I would make clap. Cut and tension. Yes, cut and tension left and right.

And the way my main mechanism for desexualizing situations with guys, when the big naturals came in, I was like, I got to get funny quick, you know what I mean? Because I got to deflect the situation. Yes. And so that was like my main tool.

Your judo, your judo. That was kind of the first thing. And then I got, what happens the biggest? Yes, yes, yes.

That was a huge change point. Your first two picture movies. Yes, yes. Cordray and I, Rob Cordray and I became really fast friends and we were kind of each other's counter parts on that movie.

Like he was like the wacky best friend of Ashman and I was like the wacky best friend of Cameron. I spit in his mouth at one point on the take and we like had to make out furiously and be ridiculous and improvise. And he was kind of like, hi, you know, okay. So you're a fellow sailor at sea.

Exactly. And I was like, thank you for acknowledging me. Thank you for seeing me. And then he asked me to come and do Children's Hospital, which is a little web series.

The first season was just me, Aaron Hayes, Camarino, Cordray and Rob People. And Megan Mullally was part of it and Offerman came on and then all in. And they were 15 minute episodes. It was so low commitment, no logic, totally irreverent, fucking crazy and so fun.

It was just comedy camp. And I've never had a troop like that ever. I got inducted into a group that then became family. And then, you know, obviously seven years later, it was like, we are family now.

You know, they supported me as I started directing. I directed Children's Hospitals as well. Well, and then in full honesty, I was aware of you for the last 13 years. I knew who Lake Bell was, but I had not seen you act until I saw Wet Hot.

Oh, shit. Really? Yes. Kristen and I watched Wet Hot and we were like, oh, my goodness, Lake is brilliant in this show.

At this point, we're already at preschool together, I believe. Yeah. Which was all the way back really quick. The first time we chatted at the school was I have a very big truck.

I talked about this one time on here on the podcast. I have shame when I drive that truck to that school because it's very Bernoulli and progressive. And I'm like, oh, God, they're mad that I have a diesel truck and everyone thinks I'm an asshole. And I remember even thinking, I saw your car because you had a really cool old Toyota Land Cruiser.

1988 Land Cruiser. So I was aware of your vehicles. I know everyone's vehicles. I was like, oh, shit, I like to see her.

I got to time this. So when I get in my truck, she doesn't see me. This is going to be a big check against me. And then you saw me.

And then I just was like, I tow a really heavy trailer. That's why I have to have this truck. I feel like you're very defensive out of the gate. Oh, 100%.

I was like, I tow a very heavy trailer. I have to have this truck to tow this trailer. That's very heavy. And you were like, no, no, my dad races cars.

My dad redid VIR. And I was like, what? And then we talked cars for like 15 minutes. I like that I immediately was like, no, no, no.

I'm big in it. And I'm part of the, I get it. Yes, yes. Whatever the big natural term for gearheads is.

You were saying you had many, many toes in that water. I actually think, I was like, oh, I wonder because I was aware of you too. I had seen the freebie. For me, I just knew you mostly from the freebie.

Which again, is really funny because I saw you in something that was not your main lane. And then you saw me in something that was not my main lane. I know. Yeah.

So look at us. Look at us. This is interesting. Here we are sharing a lane.

I know. Sharing a lane. But the car thing was like, I was aware of your motorheadness. I was actually like, oh, thank God.

He's seeing the 1988 Land Cruiser. You know what I mean? I'm going to get mad props for this shit. Yeah.

And thank God, you know? And so then I was like, oh, what's he driving? Oh, interesting. Okay.

That's up. You know what I mean? He's an off-road guy. I do know that.

So I was like. He's in the 70s and famous in the 70s. And then it kind of like was left to nothing. And then my dad came in with love.

And so it's like, that's his real soulful project. It was the Stuckies of racetracks. Do you remember that chain, Stuckies? It was all along the eastern seaboard, 9975.

I sort of know. So what is that? Well, it was mostly like a truck stop type of restaurant. Like Cracker Barrel, I guess.

Like Come and Go. A Squirt and Jerk. A Slap and Suck. But whatever.

Come and Go is an actual one. Oh, I know. I saw for the first time, like a month ago. We were in Bentonville, Arkansas.

Yes. Not only is it Come and Go. C-U-M. Well, it's K-U-M.