Lawfare Daily: The Law of the Shutdown episode artwork

EPISODE · Oct 3, 2025 · 51 MIN

Lawfare Daily: The Law of the Shutdown

from The Lawfare Podcast

In this episode, Molly Reynolds, Senior Fellow at Brookings and contributing editor at Lawfare, sits down with Nick Bednar, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and contributing editor at Lawfare, and Sam Berger, Senior Fellow on the Federal Fiscal Policy team at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. They discuss why government shutdowns happen, what determines what functions keep operating, how the Trump administration is using this shutdown to pursue novel cuts to the federal workforce, and how to think about the shutdown in the broader context of the Trump administration’s exercise of executive power.For more on this topic, see the following articles:In Lawfare:“A Primer on Reductions in Force,” by Nick Bednar“Don’t Use Shutdown Plans to Slash the Federal Workforce,” by Bridget Dooling“Reductions in Force During Shutdowns,” by Nick Bednar “Reductions in Force During Shutdowns: Easier Said Than Done,” by Nick BednarFrom the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:“Understanding the Legal Framework Governing a Shutdown,” by Sam Berger“Administration Plans for Mass Firings in a Shutdown Not Justified by Law or Prudent Management,” by Sam BergerTo receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, Molly Reynolds, Senior Fellow at Brookings and contributing editor at Lawfare, sits down with Nick Bednar, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and contributing editor at Lawfare, and Sam Berger, Senior Fellow on the Federal Fiscal Policy team at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. They discuss why government shutdowns happen, what determines what functions keep operating, how the Trump administration is using this shutdown to pursue novel cuts to the federal workforce, and how to think about the shutdown in the broader context of the Trump administration’s exercise of executive power.For more on this topic, see the following articles:In Lawfare:“A Primer on Reductions in Force,” by Nick Bednar“Don’t Use Shutdown Plans to Slash the Federal Workforce,” by Bridget Dooling“Reductions in Force During Shutdowns,” by Nick Bednar “Reductions in Force During Shutdowns: Easier Said Than Done,” by Nick BednarFrom the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:“Understanding the Legal Framework Governing a Shutdown,” by Sam Berger“Administration Plans for Mass Firings in a Shutdown Not Justified by Law or Prudent Management,” by Sam BergerTo receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lawfare Daily: The Law of the Shutdown

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In this episode, Molly Reynolds, Senior Fellow at Brookings and contributing editor at Lawfare, sits down with Nick Bednar, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and contributing editor at Lawfare, and Sam Berger, Senior Fellow...

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