Legalizing Kinship with César Rodríguez-Garavito

In this conversation, Victoria Loorz speaks with legal scholar César Rodríguez-Garavito, founding director of MOTH (More Than Human Life) at NYU School of Law and a leading voice in multispecies justice. César has led landmark climate change, rights of nature, and Indigenous rights cases, including serving on the Science Panel for the Amazon and as an expert witness before the Inter-American Court of Human Rights.Together, they delve into César’s collaboration with Project CETI, which uses AI and non invasive technologies to study sperm whale communication. They explore the audacious possibility that whales might one day be heard in court not as property or evidence, but as subjects with legally recognized voices and interests. At its core, this dialogue is about dismantling human supremacy, crafting ethical guardrails for emerging technologies, and midwifing a shift from dominance to kinship.Connect with Cesar:Website: mothlife.orgPodcast: Crossing The RiverMentioned in the episode:Ecology Law Quarterly Journal (2025 Publication): What if We Understood What Animals Are Saying?: The Legal Impact of AI-Assisted Studies of Animal CommunicationOrganization: CETINYU Article: Marine Biologists Are Using AI to Decode Whale Speech. NYU Law Scholars Are Exploring What That Means for Animals’ Legal RightsThe New Yorker Article: Can We Talk To Whales?Plus: The New Yorker Companion VideoNYU Article: MOTH Unveils New Framework for Nonhuman Animal Communication TechnologiesPEPP (Prepare, Engage, Prevent, Protect) Framework: Nonhuman Animal Communication TechnologiesCity of Ojai Ordinance No. 940Book: An Immense World - How Animal Senses Reveal the Hidden Realms Around Us by Ed YongConnect with the Center:Website: wildspirituality.earthVictoria's Website: victorialoorz.comEmail: [email protected]: linktr.ee/ctrforwildspiritualityInstagram: @center_for_wild_spiritualityTimestamps:00:00 – Introduction07:35 – Interview Begins08:16 – Formed By Columbia10:52 – Spiritual Formation11:50 – Learning the Language of Sperm Whales14:44 – Expanding The Understanding of More Than Human18:41 – Letting the Whales Testify For Themselves21:17 – The Birthing Rings of Sperm Whales26:28 – Gentle Technology and Ethical Guidelines32:19 – Imagining the Future of Multispecies Justice38:59 – How To Connect41:45 – Wild Invitation43:37 – Credits