Welcome to the Practical AI Podcast, where we break down the real-world applications of artificial intelligence and how it's shaping the way we live, work, and create. Our goal is to help make AI technology practical, productive, and accessible to everyone. Whether you're a developer, business leader, or just curious about the tech behind the buzz, you're in the right place. Be sure to connect with us on LinkedIn, X or Blue Sky to stay up to date with episode drops, behind the scenes content, and AI insights. You can learn more at practicalai.fm.
Now, onto the show. Welcome to another episode of the Practical AI Podcast. This is Daniel Leitnack. I'm CEO at Prediction Guard, and I'm joined as always by my co-host Chris Benson, who is a principal AI and autonomy research engineer at Lockheed Martin. How are you doing, Chris?
Hey, doing great today, Daniel. Looking forward to a conversation here. Yeah, yeah. Excited to chat about all sorts of things, both in terms of background and current work with Chetan Gupta today, who is chief AI officer at Rackspace. Welcome, Chetan.
How are you doing? Good. Thanks, Daniel and Chris for having me. Quite excited about the conversation. Yeah, yeah.
Well, like I say, we had bonded even yesterday when we were chatting about our backgrounds and in physics and mathematics. I know you started out in mathematics and spent a bunch of time at Hitachi. Do you want to give us just an idea of a little bit of your background and what you've been involved with over the years? Sure, sure. Sure, sure.
So my background is actually quite diverse. It's sort of eight people in my role. I side off at the PhD in mathematics, then I joined Hewlett-Backett Labs with a research scientist working on data mining, machine learning. Then I joined Hitachi as a principal researcher for member correctly. And then I sort of, you know, through the management ladder was when I left Hitachi in 2026, I was leading all of AI research at Hitachi globally.
This is a very strong team. And that's what I did. And we were focused a lot. We started focusing, we started with focus on industrial AI as we defined it at that time. And as the sort of industry matured, we sort of started looking at a broader spectrum of things.
And that's what I was doing. And then I joined Rackspace and I have been here for months. So it's been sort of a very, very fascinating journey. And in some sense, if I try to this podcast, I was thinking about my career, you don't think about these things. In some sense, I followed the trajectory of the whole community at a broad level.
I mean, if I remember, if you remember, guys, we were all doing machine learning, making small models, solving specific problems. And there was a community in Bay Area that was focused primarily on set accommodation systems. And as Chris, you would know in companies like Lock in Barton or Hitachi, we focused on industrial problems. And so that's what I was doing for the first half of my career. And then more than half.
And then obviously deep learning became important, we decided to get vision models, language models that didn't blossom to total, as language models. And in some sense, a lot of the traditional machine learning problems today are much more solvable with automated tools with sort of like coding and so on and so forth. And the new challenge now is, yes, you can do all this in machine learning and AI, but how do you make it accessible to more people? How do you make it actionable? How do you make it much more safe?
And that's where sort of like space comes in. So in some sense, you look at the trajectory of problems. That's how I have traveled in some sense, like looking for travel. So to speak, I love that. So I've got it.
I want to go back for a second. I'm going to drag you back as you kind of went through your timeline for a second because as you were talking about kind of coming up through the ranks, the managerial ranks at Hitachi, you know, and you look at, you know, with kind of AI world exploding, you know, in terms of volume and importance and budgets and all that stuff. And so many times organizations will go to kind of an outside expert and bring them in to fill a particular key position and stuff. And yet you kind of came through the ranks at Hitachi. And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about like what, what, you know, because there are other people out there that are watching this and listening to this right now, that are in their careers and they are aspiring to move up through the ranks themselves.
And what were some of the things that you brought to bear that made you able to kind of move up through that and take on the leadership role at Tai Chi before you were able to come over to Rackspace just from a kind of a growth learning standpoint, if you, if you wouldn't mind sharing. Because that's a high one. I was more prepared to answer the question. I'm sorry. But I think that's actually a very, very interesting question.
I think one thing that I think helped in my career with Tai Chi was we decided to take a bit on Industrial AI. This was 2016, 2017 and not very many people were talking about it. So we started a small research lab in North America. And I said, given that it actually is a giant industrial conglomerate, it makes a lot of sense. But there wasn't a lot of background around it.
And it was a risky bet we were in Bay Area. We were competing with like the likes of Facebook, Google, for talk talent. But we took that risk. We were sort of forward looking in the sense that we figured that industrial AI physically will become important. And we tried to succeed.
And we did succeed to a large extent. I think that's sort of a paved the way in some sense for management, for our leadership, from the CEO and onwards to have confidence and internal sort of talent to take Hitachi to the next level. And I think, so mine, if I look back, I would say look forward, see what's sort of around the corner. It's difficult, but I think if you spend time thinking about it, not just reading about it, but thinking about it as well, just stating what's happening in the industry around you. And take a risk, take a bit on something different, something new that is aligned with your company's direction as well, obviously.
Then I think that sort of shows your leadership in terms of looking ahead in ability to take risks and then to execute. I think that's maybe that's what worked for me. Yeah, I love that answer because even Chris, I don't know if you remember, but the beginning of this year, I think we said, Chase and we do a kind of forward looking episode, usually at the beginning of each year. I think we talked about kind of coming into its own was this idea of physical AI, I think, if I'm remembering, right? And so you were very much ahead of that, as you mentioned.
You took maybe a gamble or a risk of looking towards that direction. I'm wondering for the listeners who might not be as familiar with industrial AI, physical AI, these sorts of terms. If you could just help us understand maybe what that meant when you started getting into it and what that means now, if those things are different in any sort of way. That's a very good question Daniel. And I think it certainly doesn't mean the same thing.
Nothing means the same thing anymore. But when we first started out, we were trying to solve industrial problems. So if you look at the industrial value chain from design all the way to manufacturing, and this is not just manufacturing, but you think about power plants, you think about rail systems, you think about any industrial system, you could sort of organize the challenges in say maintenance, design, production. You could look at these verticals. And if you took a step back to realize that, although every vertical is different, the data itself is different, but there are a lot of commonalities in terms of the problems that you could solve and in terms of the techniques that you could bring to bear on them.
So initially it was much more around the prediction, like your failure prediction. So there was a classical rate of maintenance problem. And then can you recommend the right repair to a technician, whether that technician is an automotive technician or sort of in some of the domains doesn't really matter. So but the math behind it was somewhat similar. And that's how it started out.
And those are the kinds of problems we were solving around maintenance around quality, how do you sort of predict if the part is going to fail and so forth. And then as the industry evolved both, the physical industries meaning these companies like say Hitachi, they started collecting more data. And sort of the AI industry also was evolving towards deep learning. So and as the technology was becoming more mature, then you, then computer vision didn't problem became much more important. Can you detect defects in on the surface?
Can you count number of cars in a parking lot kind of problem? And then as we got into large language models, then there was further expansion of what you could do in the industry world itself. So one big move obviously is what we, what people call physically AI now, which is sort of contested definition, but the idea that you could do robotics at scale. So part of the work that fit on automation with traditional reinforcement learning now could sort of be in a much more formal larger basis with sort of around robotics. And you make multiple robots work together or even a robot can work in this environment or not.
And also the, the, the, the digital sort of industry, I kind of problems also became on a larger scale. So people started expecting much better answers away for humans to communicate. Metavors sort of became becomes important where you could construct these sort of virtual worlds for training for problems that you should write. So in some sense, the, the field has moved along with the maturity of the AI technology as well. So that's right.
And then this is a very exciting moment to be in that space as well, I would say, because there's a lot of an ocean will come there. Yeah, I know in, you know, that you have, you've run labs both in North America and Japan. And as we're talking about physical AI at this point, it occurs to me as I'm listening to you, that you know, we have a global audience here and people from different parts of the world have different experiences in terms of this move into physical AI and in some of these processes. And I would imagine, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would imagine your time in Japan. Yeah, there's a lot more robotics out there.
And as we're all sitting here in the United States, there's a little bit less exposure to most people out there in terms of physically on robotics. I think we're kind of, in my view, we're kind of lagging other parts of the world in that capacity. I'm kind of curious as you, as you're looking at this, kind of what your experiences were about different parts of the globe and how that's moving the notion of physical AI forward in these various contexts you're talking about. And maybe, you know, with the advent of kind of embodied intelligence coming more and more into play with robotics and edge computing and stuff, what your thoughts are about that, you know, with your experiences. That's a, I think that's interesting sort of a reminder because it's a dimension to all of this.
Right. I think I'm a culture generalization and often people, but I learned that at least, say folks in Japan are much more open to sort of robots than say, folks in North America. I think that is something cultural. I can't explain it why. And that's why even like very many years ago, we were thinking about robots for elderly support, right?
Even if they could not know what they could talk and understand and be empathetic, right? So getting the empathy right was a very hard problem. In just the way, you know, a machine would talk to a human, right? So how do you introduce the right sort of the language, the empathy, the warmth that typically humans have for each other. So in that sense, so for use cases like L. L. L. K, I would say, yes, so the United States
was sort of behind other sort of Asian countries, not all the Asian countries, but like the leading countries in Japan, China and so forth. And then when it comes to industrial robotics as well, you're right, the center of gravity is not in North America. Like the center, if you think about large language models, the center of gravity is North America, but in sort of in robots for the industrial world, the center of gravity is sort of in China today, you've seen sort of the robots do multiple things. And but I think we are catching up. We have some excellent startups that are sort of trying very, very new ways for this, the robots to sort of work in the physical world, right, whether they are for industrial use or whether they are for sort of more commercial use.
And I would say the commercial use robots would be the first one to have an impact because a lot of industrial processes are already in some sense, robotized because there's tasks specific, they don't need to be that general. Like more general robotics are needed, more for sort of human environment, whereas a lot of factories are quite automated already, right? And I think that's what that's where the next sort of battle lines are. And I think in that there is, I mean, it's this anyone's game right now, I would say, because some of the underlying math is where we are better than everyone else, some of the underlying mechanics, maybe other countries are better than us. But yes, but culturally, you are spot on, right?
So there was a broader acceptance and maybe that is still the off robots for digital interaction in Japan, computer, same, ultimately. Does that answer question or sort of take it down sort of? That was a great answer. I appreciate it. Thanks.
I hope that you're finding this episode practical and helpful. As the name suggests, we want this podcast to be practical, not just hype. And that's one of the reasons why we've partnered with the Midwest AI Summit, which is happening October 15th in Indianapolis. This summit is more than just a bunch of hyped talks. There's really practical things there, like an AI engineering lounge, where you can sit down with experienced AI practitioners, like myself and others, and work through your architecture, your tool questions, your roadmap, your strategy, et cetera.
And that way you can actually leave with a huge value from the event. Again, the event is happening October 15th in Indianapolis. Some amazing speakers, some practical advice. Don't miss this event. Make sure you're there October 15th in Indianapolis.
You can check us out at MidwestAISummit.com. And you can use practical AI20 to get 20% off registration. Again, MidwestAISummit, and you can use practical AI20 to get 20% off registration. So Chitin, I want to circle back to a comment that you made as you were talking about the arc of your career and landing at Rackspace. You mentioned something to the effect of going with the technology, but now moving to a place where you could make it more accessible and safe and et cetera and operationalize it if I'm understanding you're right.
Could you help us understand that dynamic a little bit more around the technology? Now it almost seems like with AI everything is feasible, but not everything is easy. Or not everything is you can't operationalize everything. You can't make it accessible. Could you help us understand your thought process around maybe that transition then from that world of industrial AI to now where when you're thinking a lot about these types of issues around operationalizing, scaling, making accessible these technologies in an actual useful and safe way?
So when you're working with industrial partners, we would have a team of highly trained researchers with engineers, ESDs and all of that. And so we will take up a customer problem. We'll understand the data. We'll build a model and then we'll work with the customer deployed. And that deployment just not meant throwing the model over the wall, but you work with the customer.
You talk to them, you understand exactly the same point, you understand the workflows and then you integrate your model in the workflow. And typically that model was small enough that you could have it in their own environment. And this is what we did again and again. And if you look back, maybe even five years, most of us were not using AI directly in a world. So AI was always mediated through maybe a solution that was developed, deployed and operated by some model.
So they took that responsibility. Now with generative AI, AI has become democratized. Everyone has access to AI. Every enterprise wants to use AI. And you don't have the steam of PhDs and researchers everywhere who can build a model and deploy it.
First of all, it's cost prohibitive. These large-language models are typically very difficult to build, they're very expensive to build. So the whole model of how you would bring AI and machine learning to enterprise changes with generative AI. So that's the challenge. So at a high level.
But what does that mean in practical terms? The number of things. So you ask a question. I use, for example, some large-language model. I could simply ask what's the capital of CID?
So for that, I don't need to go to say, GPT, Vase, my two cons are expensive. If I have a local model, I should ask that question, it'll be much cheaper. And right, so that's number one. Number two is this is an issue raised by Satinadella and even I think Jensen, whenever you as an enterprise say, now you want to say, I want to operationalize AI, AI is accessible, I want my staff, anybody want to use AI. Now, every time you ask a question, say to a large-language model, in some sense, you are sending your data over to them.
So your data sovereignty is not guaranteed. So the way Satinadella, you're losing your alpha. That's your IP. That's another problem. Then an AI in some sense today is Jagged.
So meaning that there are some tasks for which AI is really good at. So I can really write some very good software program using AI. I can code with AI. But if you try to write an email with AI, you realize that it's not all that great. It's quite, right?
So I can write emails and I sometimes annoy me because they are very verbose and they're very cliched in some sense. So although we thought that writing is the strength of AI, but it is turning out that it's good at it, but not that great at it. Humans can still do better at writing emails maybe than AI can. So that means in terms of capabilities of where AI is good or bad, it's Jagged. So from enterprise, they need to know.
So this is where I should use AI. And then to my first point earlier, whether I should use a local model because that's more expensive, should I use a larger model? And then how do I press a man for it? So these are all three questions that are today difficult to answer. Now the Jaggedness of AI also is in terms of how do you guarantee that it behaves in a responsible manner, right?
So we all heard that anthropic sort of the latest model hacked, working phase website, right? So now if you're going to deploy your own model, suppose you say I won't develop my own model within the enterprise on my own data and you deploy it, how do you guarantee that behaves in a way that is safe? And also if you're using someone else's AI, like you're using a larger element, how do you ensure that it behaves within countries? Right? So the problem of governance and assurance becomes very important.
The government, the problem of how do you maximize the value of your AI, the economics becomes important. The value of preserving your IP becomes important. And the problem having the right architecture to so that you can get it to the multiple needs within the enterprise, promise your programming to writing emails to summarizing to research can be done in sort of a safe guaranteed manner so that you can sort of interchange the models if needed, you can sort of, right? So because there are more technologies changing very rapidly. So all of that requires every systematic way of thinking about your AI architecture.
And I think this is the next frontier, this is the next challenge. So now how do we go from simply sort of chatting with an AI through an interface to working with enterprise where there are people, processes in all of the complications? There's a very long window to answer, but I hope sort of addressed the question. Yeah. And not only was it good, I'd like to actually get you to extend it a little bit by throwing a couple of extra logs on the fire.
One of the challenges that we see in industry right now, and it's been evolving over the past year, is where open weights or open source models are available from. And there's so many external considerations that get brought into bear as, you know, while, you know, to your point earlier, that the center of gravity for model development, you know, for element development, maybe still in the US, a lot of those are closed, the number of available open weights models kind of shrunk a little bit with, you know, meadows kind of going away from that. And Nvidia started stepping up a little bit more because the rest of the commercial industry in the US was reducing.
And we're seeing an explosion of capability in terms of new models that are kind of rapidly catching up a very close followers or potentially equal from China. And overlaying all this, you have all these countries have their various exports, concerns, import concerns, what you're allowed to use. And that makes it quite complicated as an ecosystem for companies and various businesses to try to figure out what makes sense for me. You talked about governance, you talked about data sovereignty. How do you navigate, you know, with some of these big issues that go beyond the technology of AI and the implementation of AI and can affect, you know, management concerns all the way up to the CEO and the board of directors.
And how do you start, if you're a company now, it's late 2026 and all this is rapidly developed. How do you look at all these and make decisions for strategic interests in your organization going forward because it's quite the quagmire at this point. Yeah, no, and it's quite, and it's changes that are distinct pace as well, right? And so there is no easy answer to that. I just, I don't want to address the question of open models, right?
And I know you said that we are somewhat behind as in terms of open models, but I think the beauty of United States is that the right incentive we really step up, right? So now we realize, I mean, the AI commit realizes as well that look with open source models, maybe they're from China today, obviously NVIDIA is doing a great job in it, right? There is a lot of merit in that. And from what I know of people I talk to and friends I talk to, I think it's a matter of time before our open source models will be thought of everyone else. That's number one, right?
On number two, like how do enterprises get started? I think they have to sort of fix few things, I would say, right? Fix few things meaning they need to sort of understand how much of their workload is sensitive today, meaning if you are, say, doing an HR query, maybe it's okay to work in a LMM. So one thing is to get out what data is something you really want to work around. And there ideally you should sort of think about local models, open-weight models in your own environment that you control.
So I would say that's one not-style you try to fix. Don't marry into any model family because they will swap in and out both for commercial reasons, geopolitical reasons, right? So all of that will sort of evolve, change. So don't marry into any sort of, marry into an architecture review of thinking, right? Meaning that these are the workloads that I can push to the X2 to an LMM, outside LMM, this is either workloads that I need to have on-prem or in a government environment.
And what are my governance and assurance layer that I want to have? So what are the properties that are important to my enterprise? And that I really need to enforce in the way I work with AI. So I think if you have some of those principles pinned down, it becomes an easier way to get started. And I think most, and then I, like you're a show, I would have said, I pick one problem up and then do it well all the way, and then pick the second one up, then do it all the way, because at least six months, two years ago, there were so many pilots and not as much impact on the bottom line or top line of a corporation.
But I think people are learning that, but that's the other thing. I pick one or two problems that are meaningful in terms of impact, if you're not started yet, and start with the, but for most enterprises, which are already somewhere in the journey that have started, I would say stop thinking modules and start thinking architectures, right? Enterprise architectures for AI, right? So that would be sort of my one line, or if you would, for how to go about it, if that makes sense. I love how Chayton in this episode is emphasizing the need for operational sovereignty as we move into agent AI.
As agents have autonomy in your own infrastructure and touch your critical systems, it's absolutely crucial that you maintain control and limit the blast radius. That's why I'm so privileged to be leading a company called Prediction Guard, which has a self-hosted control plane that allows you to maintain least agency for the agents operating in your environment and limit the blast radius of those agents. This runs in your own infrastructure. You have complete sovereign control, whether that's on-prem, air-gapped, or in your cloud VPC, and it's available on the AWS and Azure marketplaces. I would encourage you to check us out at predictionguard.com slash practical AI.
Again, check us out at predictionguard.com slash practical AI. So Chayton, you brought us to the point of talking through thinking about architecture. I do want to come back to that here in a second in terms of how you're thinking about that and enabling that at Rackspace. But before I do that, I wanted maybe to get your perspective on a word that you used a little bit ago, which was sovereignty, which has to do. I think maybe there's listeners out there that are thinking, oh, I work for an industry company.
I'm not a nation state. I don't need, I don't have a sovereign cloud. What does sovereignty have to do with me? Would you help clarify that because some people might be thinking or have different views of what that means and kind of bring it down to maybe the commercial or the industry setting. What does sovereignty mean in that sense, both in terms of privacy and control?
So that's an excellent question, Daniel. And I think that's exactly the evolution that has happened. Folks typically associate a sovereignty with the organization state. And it needs to have the only ice stack. And that's how the conscience started.
But I think a few months ago, the conversation shifted because people realized that whenever you are interacting with a large language model that is not sort of in your own environment, you are sharing your data, your context, your processes, your information. And that is an IP. And given how powerful these AI tools can be, so that is an IP in terms of your data, your knowledge that you're giving to someone else. And not only that it can be acted upon using AI to build solutions that might impact you as a corporation. So the notion of then sovereignty sort of comes down to not just a nation, but also an entity, enterprise entity, for example.
And I'll sort of give me an interesting extension to it. And then that means that how do I protect my own IP, how do I protect my own data, how do I ensure that my model behaves in the way that I wanted to behave, my AI behaves in a way, not model, sorry, my AI behaves in a way that I wanted to behave with sort of the governance and assurance that I think are appropriate in my environment, not someone else dictating to me what my governance should be. Because there's not someone else's constitution that I have to use, but my own sort of constitution as from a sovereign standpoint. And I think that idea will extend further as we go ahead, maybe to an individual as well. So we are quite sort of now used to the idea of sharing our private information with the abandoned, so to speak, right?
But I think this idea of sovereignty, I think will eventually extend to humans as well, to us as well. We will say look, how do I protect my own data? Well, when I'm interacting with these language models, because people are sharing a lot of private information now, right? They are sort of using them as therapists, as guides, as friends. So this notion of sovereignty will come all the way down.
And the idea is I am this entity. I have my own interests that are distinct from someone else's interest and I need to protect. That's great. And I love, well, I love that definition. I think it gets people thinking in the right direction.
But I also loved how you actually kind of made a distinction there when you talked about AI versus model. And you brought us to the point of thinking about architecture before. And I'm wondering if you can help us now that you're kind of you're at Rackspace, you're helping Rackspace think through the architecture that needs to be enabled for different enterprises. Actually that in itself becomes a little bit complicated because like you said, models are not the same as quote AI that you're deploying in the sense of, oh, maybe there's an agent that uses multiple models. It has a harness.
Next to MCP servers, there's a governance element to it. There's an observability element to it, et cetera, et cetera. It's almost like you can look at that AI stack and it can be very overwhelming to understand how to put all the pieces together. What is the right architecture? Could you help us understand maybe how you're helping Rackspace enable the architectures that are important for people now and how you're encouraging your customers, your partners to think about that architecture, not just as a model, but as a whole architecture that's supporting the deployment of AI.
So in some sense, Rackspace today goes from chip to outcome, because we have enough partnership with AMD, we have our own data centers, so our stack goes all the way. And for our customers, we provide the whole private AI environment, private AI environment where they can safely run their AI in their own environment and completely controlled by them. And this is what we're trying to do. I'm trying to build this sort of stack out for our customers' partners and also internally at Rackspace. And I know I completely agree that this can be quite overwhelming, but I think it's not all that bad.
So if you take a step back and think systematically about it, it's sort of following the same paradigms of architecture and design that have come before. So if you think about start with say compute layer, then you have your data, fine, then you have a model layer. Now, by the model layer, it could mean not just sort of the larger limbs, but also your own model. Right? There's a model library.
And on top of it is an inference layer. So inference layer is how you get some intelligence out of a model. So that is the inference layer. And on top of it, I would say the harness. And I think you've read the word harness.
And I think it's very important to think of harness as a sort of key construct in how you deploy your AI. So harness is what in my mind dies machine learning model to an outcome that you can use. So when, for example, people use a code, it's not that you are directly working with the model itself. It is the coding harness, right? Around the underlying machine learning model that enables you to do something very useful.
So you take the same model and you build two different harnesses and you will get two different outcomes. So it's very important to think through what sort of a harness looks like. And harness simply thinks think through a harness as sort of the machinery that sort of specifies the logic for the underlying underlying AI model to use and setting a set of tool sets that it would use, right? Through MCP or whatever. And then in any enterprise, there will be multiple harnesses, right?
So you will have a coding harness. You might have a harness for your agents for HR. You might have a harness for agents for blah, blah, blah. And so ideally, you should think of building an orchestration layer to manage multiple harnesses, right? And on top of it, you can then think of the consumption layer.
And around the whole thing should be wrapped, I would say, with the governance and insurance planes. So if you think of this, this is not so different from how we thought about other sort of stacks in the past, it's a matter of just abstracting out that if the use cases and commonality and think from that point of view. And once you do that, sort of this falls out naturally, at least to me. And everything can then be done through sort of the way we have done that in the past, through APIs, the specifications, who says what to flow and how to interact. And that's how these multiple layers can track.
So yes, I mean, it looks overwhelming. But I think the design principles are the same in the past and it should not be all that intimidating. No, I think that was I think that's quite an elegant way of describing how architectural components fit together. I really, I really found myself gravitating to the way that you were explaining it. And in my head, as you were doing that, I had a question, which I think you started, you've already started to answer, but I wanted to extend it a little bit.
And that is from a customer standpoint, as they are looking at the products and services that whatever their business is, that they're offering their own customers. And there's some sense of stability to achieve that value. They need the product or service to be reliable to their own customers over time. And yet on the back end, your customer who's providing that service to them is trying to navigate those decisions that you just were describing in terms of what harnesses for what kinds of jobs I want to get done. And I was in my question, which maybe I have a glimpse of was how do you manage the tumultuousness ticked and of the evolving set of models, the never ending set of new harnesses and stuff that are always coming out while keeping that customer experience downstream steady and level based on the value that you're trying to provide.
I'm guessing that that's somehow being managed through the orchestration layer in terms of how you're doing that. And you need to build a valid for your own workloads. I think one thing people often gravitate towards is like, oh, these are benchmarked, this model is doing something else better than the other benchmark. But those benchmarks are only guidelines in some sense. They don't represent your workloads.
And as you said earlier, the boundary of AI is jacket, right? So although a certain model might do very well on a benchmark doesn't necessarily translate into that it will do very well for your workloads as well. So I would say having your own evals is very important. And once you make that eval there, then in some sense, you can have a very consistent experience for your customers. You can swap in models in and out based on your evaluos.
So you should say, OK, I have the same evals from my previous model to your model, new model to super, like whatever, or it's safe. I'll use this. So I think you need to build an eval as part of the orchestration framework. And that can help you decide which sort of harness you go to. Sorry, sorry, Danny.
No, I was just going to say I think that ties into what you were saying about some of the intuition that we've had from building software over the years and architecture over the years, certainly testing into end testing, et cetera, is a key piece of that. And maybe the kinds of tests are slightly different or there's different ways of testing in this case. But I love how you tied that piece together. And also thinking about the, you mentioned the term outcome. What outcome are you after?
And are you really testing for that outcome? I think that's a key piece of it. I wonder, just to add to that, I mean, when we were doing these machine learning models for industrial use cases, we had this golden data set. So before you could deploy, the customer would say, prove your model works on this golden data set. So I think it's the same, like, non-equality as it is more comprehensive, but the basic idea is the same.
You got to prove that your model works on data that's relevant to me before you deploy it for my customers. Sorry, sorry. I'm talking about that. That's great. Take that connection.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I guess kind of as we get closer to the end here, I want to give you a chance to, you know, you're sitting in this chief AI officer role. You've kind of navigated this career, are coming to Rackspace. Obviously, I know you can't share, you know, anything that's not public, but I wonder if you could give us a sense of what are the types of challenges and the things that you're encouraging Rackspace to think about as we're going into the rest of this year and next year. What's on your mind as that chief AI officer for Rackspace?
What's kind of, yeah, what sorts of challenges are at kind of the top of your mind as you're laying down to sleep at night or coming to the end of the day? What's at the top of your mind that needs to be addressed, you know, within Rackspace and maybe the industry a little bit more broadly to make sure that we move forward to produce the types of AI outcomes and the accessibility and the safety that we're after? It's a couple of things. And there's one sort of, a couple of things I think about, right? So one is obviously the architecture, right?
So like, how do you make it better? How do you define it? What do we partner with for what layer? What are the different types of customers? Like what makes sense?
No, there's no one's answer that fits all. So the general design questions around architecture and all the underlying components of that are of interest and of importance to me and we think about that. The other thing I think about, and I think in this case, in this case, in the sense Rackspace is unique, but like, other companies will learn from us as well. I want to build, I don't know what the right word for it is like a mirror all, meaning what you're saying now is if you can build it internally and use it internally, then you can go sell it externally, right? I have proven on my own workloads, then I can have confidence and go to my customer and say you could use this.
And so what I'm trying to do is from an internal standpoint, build a discipline around it, right? So it's not that the central project is less valuable and it's like a throwaway project, right? The intent should be that if you do it well, then we rotate it out to our customers. So that's, I would say, that's number two. And number three is around sort of the governance assurance and orchestration.
I think these three layers are underserved today and especially in a sovereign sort of our environment, right? So how do I bring sovereignty, self-sovinity to our enterprises, to our customers? In a way that it is cost effective, it is safe, it is reliable, and I can orchestrate multiple workloads for them because any enterprise would require multiple kinds of workloads. Yeah, I would look for that. And I think that is sort of the broader design question.
I think about, I'm not sure if I answered your question correctly, but those are some things that sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's great. I love that perspective. Of course, from where you're sitting, you have a broad view of what challenges you're trying to address and what's important.
So always eager to get insight there. This has been a great conversation. Chayton, I would very much encourage our listeners to check out what Rackspace is doing. I'll include some links in our show notes. Is there anywhere in particular Chayton that obviously people can go to the website, see what you're doing with AI, but anything to highlight in terms of what Rackspace is doing, a kind of a jumping off point for people or anything to highlight as we close out here in terms of what's currently available from Rackspace and what people can explore?
So I would say that the questions that Rackspace is trying to answer is where the industry is going to work. So you should think about those as well. How do you maintain, how do you build AI that is sovereign, that is safe, that means your outcomes and all of that, right? So those are things that everyone should think about. Those are the kind of solutions that Rackspace is bringing to market.
So please, would it us send me an email or reach out to me LinkedIn if you have specific questions as to what Rackspace is doing. But I would encourage everyone to think systematically about these problems because that's how you can ensure that AI succeed in your own environment. That's great. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Chayton. Look forward to having you back on the show to give us some updates as you continue to advance with Rackspace.
Thank you so much for joining. Thank you, Chris and Ariel. Fantastic conversation. Thank you for hosting. Okay.