LIVE: Martina McBride

He's an old chair that's fine, he's an old chair that's fine When I was just a baby, my mama told me, son Always be a good boy, don't you? He'll wait with guns, but I shot a man in Reno Just to watch him die And when I hear that whistle blow, I hear my head get cry After midnight, we're going to let it all hang down After midnight, we're going to struggle and shout We're going to stimulate some action, we're going to get some satisfaction We're going to find out what it is all they found He's an old chair that's fine, he's an old chair that's fine Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene I'm thinking of you, please don't take my bear Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene Please don't take him just because you can I'm crazy for thinking that my love will hold you I'm crazy for trying, and I'm crazy for crying And I'm crazy for loving He's an old chair that's fine He's an old chair that's fine He's an old chair that's fine Oh, Bob Murbach, Isabelle, Damon Parker Oh, you guys Thank you Oh, my God, hello, Nashville Gang, how's everybody out there on Mount Everest? Woo! You guys, we love Nashville so much We started coming here Well, I used to work here when I worked for GM Those were dark days But this town has become, you know, for me, only second with Austin, Texas I mean, this is such a wonderful place My wife hosted the CMAs or the CMTs or the Country Music Somethings Maybe five years in a row, fell in love with Hattie B's Chicken, Princess Chicken One of the loves of my life, Houston Estes is here He's the one who told me to audit my business manager if you listen to the show A lot of great friends here, just a wonderful, wonderful city We're so excited to be here And I brought a little friend with me She is miniature in size and maximum in power Monica Parable On your feet, the queen is here Look at this A southern welcome Yeah, for a southern child returned home The prodigal daughter Southern now, that's right I wish you hadn't worn heels so they could really get a sense of dimorphism between you and I I know, I have a good five inches right now that I don't normally have Like, is anyone scared I might injure her just by being next to her?

It's so big Oh, I'm powerful enough I can take it So The kind folks at Lazy Boy Have donated All this This furniture for us And we will be donating this after the show to Habitat for Humanity Right, so We've been wanting to come to Nashville for a while But we very much wanted to come and get to talk to somebody that was significant for the city Yes And lo and behold, we landed ourselves a queen Oh yeah, we did A legitimate Nashville queen That's right Every nomination imaginable She tied Reba McIntyre for Best Female Artist of the Year She is the toast of the town Martina McBride You guys Please join us Martina McBride Is that Needlepoint or Macrame? What is that? Needlepoint Needlepoint Isn't that gorgeous? Very nice, thank you so much Now you've done a million live shows in your day Have you ever seen a crowd of nicer human beings than Armcherries?

Never, never, never Got some good ones Yeah, if you're feeling low, you just step out in front of the Armcherries And everything else takes care of itself So Martina, first and foremost We were shocked to hear that you would do this First of all, there's no win for you There's several thousand people I'm a big fan of the show I find that really hard to believe It's very flattering It's flattering It is very flattering Are you a podcast person in general? I have just started getting into podcasts Okay The past, I don't know, eight months or a year Uh-huh So, you know, we met on the set of Parenthood I don't know if you remember Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes But we were friends with, our friends with May and Miles May Whitman Yes, love May And so we came out to go on set And I met you and the rest of the cast Yeah, May Whitman is probably our favorite human being on planet Earth Yeah, she's amazing Yeah, and in fact, her ex-boyfriend's brother will be coming to the 930 show That's neither here nor there Now, you've been in Nashville now for quite a long time, yeah? Since, what, 89? 1990 1990, so that's 29 years, fast math In a couple months, that'll be 30 years Yes And tell me, why is Nashville so fantastic?

Because as I've been traveling through town and talking with my friend Huey Y'all are pretty mad that this place is getting so popular, it sounds like We are kind of pissed about it Yeah No, it's just Nashville has been such a small city It has always had this really small town feel And I'm from a very small town of about 150 people Uh-huh, in Kansas? In Kansas, so for me, I'm not really a city girl So for me, moving here was like, oh, this is cool, I can handle this It's like, everybody's really nice and you can get around and it's easy And, yeah, you know That's over It's over It's over So, I mean, I go out of town for the weekend and I come back and I'm like, what is happening? Now, for us on the outside who visit, it just appears to keep getting better and better and better There's so many amazing restaurants here That's true You got a Crate and Barrel, we heard Congratulations on the Crate and Barrel We heard it was a really big day I went to the Grand Open Oh, yeah, there you go Oh, wow I'm a big Crate and Barrel fan Was there a line, like, for the iPhone? Was there people around the block for Crate and Barrel?

It was an exclusive party Oh! I got invited It was, like, a pre-Grand Open, so I got invited I was so happy They had wine and, you know, got the shop And it's great Did you get a discount? I did get a discount Oh, good I would hope so Because they probably put pictures of you in the paper and stuff I've been on, like, Twitter for years saying We need a Crate and Barrel in Nashville Wow, this is great You've made it all because of me I made a mountain You've climbed that mountain Is there another chain you'd like to see Get to Nashville that maybe we can help promote? You got a Chick-fil-A, I assume We do, we just got one, though Oh, you did?

We just got one just a few months ago We boycotted it because Monica and I are pro- Gay rights With that said, we fucking love it It's so hard to not eat It's the hardest ethical thing we've ever been faced with It really, it truly is We will sit around and talk about what we're missing out on Yep, yep We haven't been eating it for a while And I still want it every day Yes, yes And we've lied to ourselves and said Oh, I think they're pro-gay now Yeah, yeah, yeah We'll find the headline that matches what we want to hear Yeah, confirmation bias So, and the most frustrating thing is our very best friend Jess Rowland Yes Who's as gay as it fucking gets Oh, yeah, could be gay He comes by the house sometimes, Martina 10, 12 Chick-fil-A's Yeah And we're like, what are you doing? We're not eating it, you shouldn't be eating it We're doing this for you Yes And he's like, they're too good, I don't care what they can do It's very upsetting, it's very upsetting And one other fun thing will happen is on set for my TV show Sometimes the caterers order it Well, that's not my money, I didn't give any money to them So, you know, hey So, I'll call miniature mouse and be like I've got seven hot ones coming in And we will sit there and devour them all I do have a cheat I will eat it when I'm home in Georgia Because I feel like it's not going to go away in Georgia Oh, okay That's what you tell yourself So, they'll see me in Georgia No one can All right, so you're all covered there Now, you're from Kansas and you're from I didn't really even realize I'd never heard of the town So I assumed it was small But 120 people? But 150 150 So, it's possible to sleep with 10% of that population Was it in a phone booth? It was pretty bleak Yeah But it's like going with your brother Do you know what I mean?

Like, I've known these boys since kindergarten So, I never dated anybody in the actual high school Right Did you have, like, a dairy cleaner or anything nearby? No, no No, I'm talking about There's no stoplight No stoplight Dirt streets Uh-huh There's a few churches There is a liquor store And a post office Oh, wow And your dad, your mother and father owned a dairy farm? I was really young When he had the dairy farm, I was probably, you know He quit doing that when I was about five Or maybe seven And then it was just a wheat farm Oh, it was a wheat farm And also he got A weed farm Oh, boy A little doobie A couple edibles You'll forget what you stand for But your dad, well, first of all If you were five or seven Did you actually, like, milk cows? Did that happen?

I milked a cow A cow Yeah, it wasn't a regular thing But I did go with my sister We'd go down to the pasture And we would round up the cows And drive them down the lane Or walk them down the lane to the barn So my dad could milk Do you miss that at all? Is that something that you would want your kids to have? Yeah I do, actually, growing up in that really rural, safe You know, me and my brother We get on our bikes and ride all day Just total freedom And also having chores Like physical labor chores And having animals to care for I really miss that for them And I would love to go back And live on a farm at some point This is how macabre But also you have kind of First-hand experience with the food chain Which I think people would be Helped to recognize, you know Like, I read this book called On Killing About how we're kind of all fascinated with death An average kid watches like a million murders By the time they're eight on TV Normal TV This person's theory was You know, we used to Grandma and grandpa used to die at home We buried them maybe in the backyard We dealt with all that We actually processed meat on our farms We had a first-hand relationship with death And the whole circle of life And then when you're completely removed from that You just become like perversely fascinated by it Because you don't have any connection to it Right Yeah Do you feel good about death? Probably not I have seen a first-hand We used to have one time a year Where we would, you know, put up chickens And so, yeah, you definitely get to see that first-hand And then my mom would go through the whole process Of plucking them and, you know My great-grandma had them And I do remember watching my uncle Kel one And boy, they get busy for a long time after their death Yeah, yeah You're running around with like They're running around with the chicken with the head That's a real thing Yeah, I've never seen chickens more active Sorry, Monica Yeah, more strikes against Chick-fil-A You're right Chick-fil-A is not looking so good Yeah, not bearing well But your father started making cabinets And then he actually started selling cabinetry at some point?

Yeah, and he was a carpenter Like, he would build houses And really kind of just whatever needed to be done You know, install cabinetry Fix up bathrooms Build houses He was a carpenter Yeah, and you used to Is this hypocritical or true That you kind of spent a lot of time with Dad in the shop And that's maybe where you were introduced to country music? Is that Yeah, well, my dad also had a country band as a hobby So he was a guitar player He still plays guitar and sings as a hobby Daryl, right? Daryl And so there was always, you know, music around our house And it was usually really traditional country music Ernest Tubb, Hank Williams, Loretta Lynn Patsy Cline And then also he got into the outlaw country Oh, that's where I live Oh, yeah I was going to sing a Whalen song And then I ran out of confidence Oh Yeah I was going to sing Lonesome or Rameen And then I pulled the plug, yeah You still might Yeah, so there was always music around the house He always has bands So the hobby I started singing in a band When I was about seven years old In his band, right? In his band So Martina's real last name is Shift I shouldn't say real No disrespect, John, who I'm at Originally, how about that?

Your maiden name is Shift And so the band was the Shifters Shift and Shifters So couldn't be cuter It's a family name, the Shifters It's a family name, yeah And my mom ran the soundboard My dad played guitar and sang I was a band leader I played keyboards and sang My younger brother played guitar And still guitar and sang And I had for a while My older brother played drums So it was a family We would go out on Saturday night And find this abandoned school building We'd just have a dance for four hours And people would come from miles around Bringing their own big coolers And people of all ages Like from little kids to Grandma and grandpa Yeah And we'd just play music for four hours And they'd two-step How would you promote that show? How would people know to come To that abandoned Well, it's a pretty small town It's a small town, okay You didn't need radio advertising Let's just put it that way Right, so seven or eight years old Were you too young to even be nervous Or were you nervous Or did you feel protected by You know, the safest group of people You could be with Did that help to be out on stage with Yeah, I just loved just to sing I started when I was about four years old So for me, it was just who I was It was what I did And people seemed to like it And I got to be with my parents And so I didn't really think twice about it Right, and then your role Kind of increased throughout this process Because initially you just sang When you didn't play keyboard Right Were you taking lessons and whatnot Yeah, I took lessons Okay, so is it kind of Because I'm imagining like the Jackson 5 Where it's like, oh, look at all these And I was like, oh, hold on a second What's this one's name, Michael? Huh, let's put him up front Let's get him to Is there any more songs That are in Michael's wheelhouse? Like, was it I mean, not to put your other family members In an uncomfortable situation But was it obvious you should be like Let's get her, let's push her to the front?

I don't know Because I think it was just so unique You know, I think that I was the only little girl That really sang in that area And did it on a regular basis And, you know, it was just unique and different But my family's very talented It wasn't really like they pushed me out front It was kind of an equal opportunity situation, yeah And did that make you popular in town? Did that help? I mean, you only had nine other classmates So it doesn't really You're not going to fall into any of my stereotypes About, like, jocks and preps and socials and whatnot But did it help to be, like, known in your community As this spunky singer? I don't know I think it made me a little weird Oh, did it?

You know, only because in a small town You know, sports is so the center of everything Yeah And, like I said, I was the only one doing this Not that I, you know, had friends and stuff And I was not, like, an outcast But it just was so different But at the same time, we took it for granted And it was just the way it was Does that make sense? Sure Well, if your entire family's doing it There's nothing that unique about it I mean, from our point of view That's a very unique experience To be in a family band But, yeah, that's just normal And when you were doing that Did you, at what point did you have aspirations To do this professionally? Or did you? Yeah, I did When I was a teenager Or even before I always just loved to sing I was the kid that would be You know, while other people had sports practice I would come home from school We lived 10 miles down the dirt road So once you were home You were kind of home It was like you could run down And play video games at the corner stores Right So I would just put on records And I would sing along with Linda Ronstadt records And Bonnie Rae records And later, you know, Pat Benatar records And Heart And I would just sing for hours Because we didn't have a vocal teacher In that little town So that was really how I learned to sing Was just trying to match the tone And the pitch And the nuances of those singers Yeah And so, you know, I can remember Friends would come stay all night And be like, can we go outside and play?

And I was like, well, no Don't you want to sit and listen to these records? You knew Barracuda inside now? Oh, yeah You did? Yeah Oh, wow God, I'd love to hear that Have you ever played that live?

That would blow people's minds If they came to see you And you just just consider it think about it yes so great so you went from the shifters a very wholesome family band and then you joined a rock band or maybe formed the rock band and guys buckle up for the name of the rock band it was the penetrators oh okay you're like one of these Disney stars that like they turn 18 and they're like I'm a slut now woo no I'll tell you the thing is like I was so naive that I really you know these were older guys oh I imagine most penetrators tend to be of age they came to my parents and asked if I and they were kind of family friends or whatever and so I went on the road and I did not know I had no association I thought yo penetrators will penetrate you with our music yeah it's so rock and roll oh wow first with our music and then later in the evening I didn't know I swear I didn't know and we rode around in this van that had a hole in the floor and we went throw your drugs out if the cops were coming I remember one time we were going to play a week long at this holiday inn or something we pooled all our money together we bought a huge jar of peanut butter a jar of jelly and a loaf of bread and that was going to be our food for the week and we were going to share it all and everybody was like stop taking so much peanut butter like you know this is the last of all week anyway the gig fell through when we stuffed ourselves on peanut butter wait how old were you during the penetrators you have to keep saying that right I was the overrunner of me saying penetrators is at least a dozen times just to get your expectations I was 17 17 were you the lead singer of the penetrators I was of course and did you guys do covers or did you have original songs we did mostly covers we did Heart and Journey Pat Benatar oh yeah and this is what mid 80s late 80s 84 84 ooh prime time to be singing some Benatar at a Holiday Inn Express well they weren't even Expresses yet do you remember off the top of your head what the guarantee was for that week long residency I would love to know I bet it was in like the $70 range yeah probably so did you have any aspirations to go to college well yes I moved to Hutchinson which is about 40 miles away a town of about 40,000 people and I worked at the Dairy Queen oh here we go I knew a Dairy Queen would be in this story someone who actually worked at the Dairy Queen but you're not Indian or are you you don't seem to be Indian you don't know this but Monica unfortunately as a kid a boy she liked said he would date her but he couldn't because her family worked at Dairy Queen which they didn't they didn't but it was a stereotype I thought you were going to say if you don't know that Monica's unfortunately Indian no I briefed around was the exact opposite of a college prep school okay was it one of 10 students yeah the year I graduated there were 34 kids in the four grades of high school oh my goodness what are you talking about sports what do they play tennis eight man football eight man football oh wow basketball and whatnot the good news is if you have a shitty athlete as a kid move there they're going to play yeah sure they're going to have to play who else will they play I mean many years later I was watching football with my husband and I was like what are all these teams that are going in and out because there's a defensive team and an offensive team oh my poor guys just have to stay out there and play the whole game they probably ripped tickets at the front of the stadium too and park cars stadium that's so funny the field so you're over the DQ the blizzard has just come out by the way that's like shaking up the whole paradigm it was very cool the peanut buster parquet was my fave me too I love that I'm allergic to peanuts and I'll still eat it twice a year I don't care extra hot fudge do you know the year of the blizzard off the top of your head I don't I just remember when I was in 7th grade that shit hit the front page am I right it's in that zone yeah I learned how to make a blizzard you had to do the little curly Q you had to be able to do that before you could wait on people and a swirl and did you hold the blizzard upside down just peanut butter cup we don't smoke blizzard oreo cream pie silk grass and I'm like you can forget the pageantry just give us the damn drinks they look good I don't even know why you want it to be so thick yes like Dinty Moore soup eat with a fork they really want you to dig into this blizzard yikes that's extreme alright sorry you're working over at Dairy Queen I'm working at Dairy Queen I'm trying to go to college but I'm so overwhelmed and confused how to do it I was living off campus I don't know if I had a campus but I was living in a little duplex you know that cost me like $200 a month just didn't understand like the whole scheduling thing and it was just overwhelming to me so I only went a semester and then I didn't go back and I really wish that I'd stuck with it but you know well I think it worked out yeah everything seems fine there was the penetrators yes yes yes the penetrators are only going to wait so long for you to learn intro to biology or whatever now the penetrators unfortunately broke up and then you formed another group called the double penetrators no no no you wish was it called Lotus or something peaceful you went the other way yeah I did what I was saying a band called The Works The Works which I sang you know Whitney Houston Bonnie Raitt these are big swings Whitney I didn't know any better did you dance with somebody I did I want to dance with somebody with somebody who loves me I got it you always sing in front of our amazing artists I'm doing it in hopes that she'll it sounds so bad she has to fix it no but I'm trying to get to the band that you formed where you then met your wonderful husband who I met backstage John well I sang in a band called Lotus you're right five nights a week at this club and I ended up having some vocal issues and so I had to take a little bit of time away from the band plus well I ended up doing two nights a week instead of five and the club owner came to me and said by the way you need to do more interaction with the audience so I think that we're going to have you give you a wireless mic and have you come out and sit on people's laps that sounds safe I was like I'm not your girl also you look very unstable on stage so we put a pole up in the middle just feel free to stabilize yourself in a circle and boy you seem to be spitzing up there so just why don't you drop a layer while you're stabilizing yourself so crazy then I decided to put this band together on my own and that's why I met my husband because somebody said John McBride has a rehearsal space so why don't you give him a call he's just building it and you can rehearse your band there and I said cool so I went and did that I met John and our band never made it out of the rehearsal space because I was dealing with a bunch of babies like I was 18 years old and I was the only one that had a car these are 25-30 year old men I had to go around and pick them all up at their parents' house so I got it stacked against me from the get-go but we rehearsed and our biggest dream was to do the Holiday Inn circuit so we got a guy an agent from Kansas City named Frank literally had a trench coat like very shady character he came down to see us and he said you know I've got you this week in the Holiday Inn in Missouri and we were like so excited band imploded I go to my husband we hadn't even started dating yet but he lived in this warehouse where the rehearsal space was I thought this is a catch he doesn't even live with his mom I was like wow he had a car too so I said to him I don't know what I'm going to do I think Frank is going to kill us like he's not going to be happy and John said you want me to call him I'll call him for you and I said really because I was so used to being on my own and taking care of everybody and everything and paying all the bills and I was like you'd really do that you'd call that for me and he was like yeah I'll call him for you and John says Frank this is John McBride this band ain't going to make it and I was like hey hero he hung up that phone and you're like what are you doing for dinner or how no we just became really good friends and I would go there after my set finished at the club because I was still singing in that band at 3 in the morning and we'd just talk and hang out and we met and like a month later we started dating and a month after that we got engaged and we got it for a year ahead so conventionally terrible plan most people who get engaged on day 30 aren't long for this married life but you're one of these cases where it worked out because you guys have been married since 1990 yeah no 88 so 31 years oh my god 31 years that is actually impressive very stay tuned for more live show after this exciting commercial break we are supported by Airbnb if you've ever traveled kids or with extended family you know how much difference a little extra space can make everyone's on different schedules you want room to actually relax without disrupting anyone that's where Airbnb really makes a difference giving you the space you actually need having separate bedrooms a real kitchen a common area where everyone can spread out it just takes the pressure off we were up in Toronto and we opted for an Airbnb over a hotel what I love about it is everyone can be on their own sleeping schedule that is nice you're not required to wake up when the earliest riser gets up not for me I always start by checking out guest favorites they're the most loved homes on the platform consistently highly rated by guests some trips really do feel better when you have the right space 31 years that's impressive so you guys you decided to move to Nashville because he also has bigger dreams than where he's at yeah he had a concert sound company so he provided speakers and mixing boards and sound for concerts that would come through Wichita yeah so I'll never forget I had taken some time off from singing and singing in this background for this country band I mean the Fowler Brothers very wholesome name right and then my dad decided to sing in the Battle of the Bands at this club which he never did the entire time that I grew up we never did a Battle of the Bands thing but he's like I really want to do this would you come and sing I'm like sure and I sat in and sang country music which I had been singing rock and pop and stuff and it just hit me like a ton of bricks I was like this is what I want to do because I'd sing all of this different kinds of music and I love to sing a lot of different kinds of music but it just hit me I said I want to sing country music and I want to move to Nashville and I told my husband and he said let's go God bless John thank you John for co-signing on that now we just interviewed David Brothers yeah yeah we love them and you know they went on a little journey too like they left Concord, North Carolina and they kind of went into punk and you know at some point they came home and they like figured it all out that they were already sitting in like a fertile ground of great music I'm just curious when you originally set your sights on rock or pop music did you want to shed where you were from or can you remember why you thought that's where you should go you were just young I think it was a rebellion I think that I had grown up singing kind of what my dad wanted me to sing and then just felt like when I got out of high school I wanted to be on my own I was so ready I moved out the day after graduation to Hutchinson I was 17 years old and just wanted to be on my own and can I ask because you said Heart you said Pat Benatar maybe Joan Jett was in that mess oh yeah so I would also imagine at that time there was a nice offering of pretty powerful females in that space in the rock space like you're a young woman and here you've got all these like you know Heart and Joan Jett all these women that are crushing and they're rock stars and it's very empowering I just wonder if that was at all part of the appeal yeah it was totally the appeal they were so strong and I'll never forget when I first heard Heartbreaker by Pat Benatar on Casey Kasem's Top 40 I was at my grandma's house holding clothes and I was like what is that like she was so just strong and powerful and like a rock star and I don't know I was definitely drawn to that strength yeah because again I could be totally wrong but my idea of the history of country at that point I feel like in the early 80s and stuff you still have like this male-female domain in country I was even thinking about it backstage because I was just thinking about how much it's probably changed in your lifetime in your career some of my favorite songs are like she's a good-hearted woman in love with a good-timing man she loves him in spite of his wicked ways that she don't understand there's many songs that the guy's just going I'm a terrible husband God bless you I wrote this song for you I hope we're good I mean there's dozens of hits they all but list the ladies they're having sex with in the song and so I just wonder if you were conscious of that or again maybe I'm ill-informed obviously Dolly was always a really powerful woman and there were those people but it just seems like you and a batch of gals really took this thing forward a bit yeah I can remember hearing Reba who I love and loved growing up and I can remember when she had whoever's in New England was through with you I just love that song but I can remember even as a young woman going what are you doing like why are you waiting around for this guy yeah even Jolene which was just saying which is one of my all-time favorite songs it's like please don't take my man because you can it's a little victim-y a little passive a little like who the fuck's this guy he's got his pick between Jolene and Dolly Parton was it Burt Reynolds is that who that song's about I don't know who had that that cachet yeah and I think in the 90s middle late 90s early 2000s we had a ton of women on country radio singing really smart songs very strong female points of view I was part of that which I was so grateful to be a part of that yes you were a big part of that and I'm really grateful for that because you know it was so important I feel like for young girls to hear a strong female perspective on the radio and we don't really have that now you feel like right now there's a bit of a void for that I do yeah now Taylor is quite a phenom right do we consider her country she's kind of a crossover yeah or no you guys like her but she's not country is that it we're split we love her oh I love her and she's so talented but she definitely made it drew a line in the sand and said I want to be a pop artist that's what she's been doing and being hugely successful at it yeah I love that song that was written about me do you know that song mean oh that was good that was really good really really good no it goes on he's so tall and handsome as hell he's so bad but he does it so well that's the one the first title was Dax Shepard but the label didn't think anyone would know who that was so they made it ambivalent I'll be back checking that so please get her on the phone and ask her if it's about me I will so you know I think anyone I've talked to who's successful there's so many pieces to the puzzle right you have talent and that's great you're a great singer but also you're a hard worker and you're picking up the dipshits who live with mom and dad and that's definitely a part of the equation and then luck's a huge part of the equation isn't it and that's the part I have a hard time talking to people who are aspiring actors in LA it's like we'll do everything you gotta do and then just kind of wait to get lucky which kind of needs to happen at some point right so if I have this right you guys moved to Nashville and John your husband side note about John I met him backstage he watched Parenthood and I said do you think I did a good job acting like a sound engineer he said not at all I didn't buy a I didn't know what you were doing I'm like I didn't either I didn't learn one thing in six years they would just go like do more things and I just hit buttons and slide stuff and I even say to them do you think there's this much stuff changing while they sing down reverb off bass boom boom lights yeah he was pretty embarrassed for me but at any rate you guys moved to Nashville and by some way or another I don't know the particulars but he gets involved with Garth Brooks is that kind of how it happens he was his production manager he was his production manager so he's designing the whole shebang and then do I have this right you were selling souvenirs sometimes at the show yeah I did well we were newlyweds we got married in 88 in Wichita moved to Nashville in 1990 and I didn't know anybody and I was singing demos and waiting tables and he was out on the road can she sell merch he said sure so I sold t-shirts for Garth for about 8 months at some point he says you can open for me if you get a record contract well he never told me that but I just had him on my podcast and I was asking him what was he thinking Because he'd never heard me sing. He'd never seen me on stage. But I did get a record deal with RCA Records. And he had John and I over to the house and was giving me business advice.

Which I'm like, if Garth Brooks is giving me business advice, I'm there. Yeah, he just helped me refinance my home. And he was very clever. He asked me if I was working on the studio.

And I sang a little bit of something as well. If, you know, I would like to have you come open my tour for me. I mean, you know. I was like, sure.

So we went out and did 77 shows with him. Wow. I have to imagine for you, it's like someone just fucking hit the light switch. Like he plays to tens of thousands of people.

Oh, yeah. It was crazy. And this was like, he had friends in low places, the thunder rolls. Like he was like on fire.

Yeah, yeah. I don't even think my single was out when I did our first show. We did our first show in Denver, Colorado. Uh-huh.

He just took a leap of faith, you know? Uh-huh. That's kind of the part where it's like, you know, do everything you can. And then hope Garth Brooks says, hey, open up for me in Denver.

He tells the story. Because I asked him when I was talking with him. I was like, what happened? And he's like, well, we were in Arizona.

And I was selling t-shirts. And he was up on the bus. And you could tell something was going wrong with the PA system. It was about 116 or 20 degrees.

Anyway, I was at the merch stand. And I heard this terrible sound coming from the PA, which is my husband's PA. So I left my position at the merch stand. And I'm like, what can I do to help?

And John said, we've got some dry ice. I just need you to pull it and put it in front of the amplifiers because it'll cool them off. I was like, okay. So I'm actually barefoot, which I think is weird that I was selling Garth's t-shirts barefoot.

Yeah, that's a bit of a mystery. So he looked out the window. He told me, he said, I saw this girl pulling these bags of dry ice that are bigger than she was. And I was like, who is that girl?

And his brother said, that's Martina. That's John's wife. And by the way, she sells t-shirts for you. And he said, whatever she gets, she deserves.

You can tell she's a hard worker. And then that's, I guess, when the opportunity came, when I got a record deal, he remembered that. And we awarded it. That's so awesome.

So cool. That's also kind of Monica's story. Well, I was going to say, I don't see it as a story of luck. I see it as a story of someone who is like, I will do anything.

I will find the avenue. And I will get as close as I can and work as hard as I can. Yeah. That's the trick, I think.

Yeah. And a little bit of luck. So can I just ask, that first show in Denver, I'm picturing Lady Gaga in, you know, Star is Born. When she comes out, she's a little timid.

She's like, ah, ah, ah, ah. How nervous were you stepping out in front of all those people? And did you find your Gaga moment and let it explode? I feel like I was nervous, you know, but also sort of fearless.

You know, I was young and had just made this album. And I had like this little short skirt and these white cowboy boots and this white French cowboy jacket. I don't know what the hell I was going for. But honestly, if the crowd had not dug it, my confidence would have been shaken.

But, you know, you're so young and you're just going for it at that point. You black out a little bit, right? You kind of like go, oh, if I dial in and recognize how many people here who spent money, I might be disappointed with my overall selection tonight. It's overwhelming.

Yeah, you can't think about that. Yeah. So you do 70 shows with him and then you just start writing albums and then they just keep working and working and working, right? Is the ride, it's kind of punctuated, right?

Your career in that you have a stretch before kids and then you recalibrate and then you have a stretch after kid. Or you still have kids, but you know what I'm saying? You dip your toe back into it. So that first period, is it as exciting and as wonderful as I imagine?

Are you and John like pinching yourself? Oh, yeah, it's amazing. It's hard work. You know, we had to visit every radio station in every city during the day, sometimes two radio stations.

And just all the phoners and all the press and promotion. But I was loving it because, you know, I was getting to do that. Yeah. But I will say that there were times when I took it for granted.

Sure. There were times when I was tired, especially after I had kids because I brought them on the road with me and they were little babies on the road. And I can remember when I had Delaney, my first daughter, I was opening for Brooks and Dunn and I showed with them up until December 12th and she was born on the 22nd. Oh, boy.

You weren't in that miniskirt for that show, were you? No, no, no, no. You should have been. But basically, with my second one, when she was three and a half weeks old, I was on a plane to the ACMs to sing because I had that opportunity and I had to take it.

I got to a point, I think, where there's so many exciting things happening, but it's human nature to take it a little bit for granted. And also, I was just tired. I was just tired from being a new mom. And with my third kid, who's 14, I took some time off.

Yeah. I learned my lesson. You did. You lucked out in that you started releasing albums back when people still bought albums at pretty significant levels.

You sold 14 million albums to date, maybe more. That's bonkers. Yeah. But as the business has changed now, or today for sure, and then I imagine gradually throughout that period, more and more your money or livelihood is performing as doing shows, right?

As being on tour. So at the Apex, how many days a year were you on the road doing shows? Probably 98. 98.

Yeah. That's probably a big year for us. Okay. Meaning 1998 days.

Yeah, shows. Okay. And yeah, so then days of travel on either side of that. And so do you have, now here's what, so my wife, she's the best person I've ever met in my life.

I adore her. She's a mother of two. And I've seen her, and I've seen this to be common in my business back home, is that she feels guilty at work, and then she feels guilty at home. It's like, if she's at home, she's like, I should be a woman who's out making a living, and I shouldn't have to be here with the kids.

And then when she's at work, she's like, oh my God, I should be home. And this is something dads don't even have to think about. When I leave, I'm like, sayonara, suck asses. I'm out for two days.

I'll sleep 16 hours. I'll watch three movies. I don't feel any guilt. And when I'm home, I'm digging it, and I love it.

I never think, oh, I'm supposed to be working, because, you know, it is a unique kind of guilt that working mothers have thrown on their shoulders. Did you wrestle with that? Oh, definitely, yeah. I mean, even though I took my kids with me when they were little, you still feel like, I don't know, like you're falling short.

I don't know why we do that to ourselves and where that came from initially. Well, and to each other, I mean, I guess I say this, but I definitely hear women say to my wife, like, oh, how do you do that? There's always like this little subtext, or she's on a red carpet. They never ask me, how do I do it?

Like, oh, you have two shows and a podcast. How are you parenting? They don't even think about it. But with her, they're like, oh, you're on two shows.

How do you do it? It's societal, and it's all these little suggestions that are supposed to remind you. I got asked so many times, and I still get asked, how do you balance having kids in a career? Every working mom, we do it.

Sometimes we feel like we're killing it, and sometimes we feel like we're falling short. It's just, you know, you do the best you can. And my kids, I think, always really knew that they were my priority, and I think were super well-adjusted kids from being on the road with me. As long as they're not in a van called Penetrators.

So when you make a decision that you want to spend more time with your children, that means you're not going to be on the road as much, and that's a big source of income. So that is just its own thing to wrestle with, you and John, right, to figure out. But then also, you're aware, I'm sure, that there's probably 80 families that you somehow affect. If you go out on the road, that's not you and a guitar.

That's hundreds of people in some capacity, right? And their livelihood is in your basket. Does that become even harder to make that decision? Yeah, it does.

I was really lucky that I was able to put my band and crew on the salary at some point, so that alleviated a little bit of that guilt, you know? But, you know, when Delaney started kindergarten, I said, when she starts kindergarten, we are cutting back and just doing weekends, because I really want her to have the same kind of, like, going to school every day, having her little friends, you know, as a room mother. That was, like, so exciting to me to be able to be a part of that. Yeah.

And did you have the experience that I had where I had this fantasy of doing this? I knew what all that was going to feel like. I knew what it was going to feel like to be famous. I knew what it was going to feel like to have a lot of money.

I just knew. I was going to wake up in the morning like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. There he is. You do that.

I do do that, but now based on something else, this is where I'm going, I did not find that I felt the way I was expecting to feel having accomplished dreams I had set out for myself. Yeah. I mean, on some level, I have this deep sense of gratitude for it, and I know I'm lucky as hell, but the self-esteem I thought that would accompany that just didn't. And my children, they arrived, and I was like, oh, this is that magic thing I had always fantasized about, and it delivers.

Like, being in that room, right, handing out cookies, there's something about it. That's really something to hang your hat on as a human, right, or self-esteem-wise? Yeah, and you're raising people. Yeah.

You know, like, what you do and say to them matters in their formation as people. You know, so it's a huge job, and it's one that I took and take very seriously. Yeah. That's crazy rewarding, isn't it?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's the best. That beats all the stuff. Yeah.

It's in 2002, you released a Greatest Hits, and it went three times platinum. But when you release an album like that, first of all, I must be like, oh, my God, I have a Greatest Hits. Like, I can do a Greatest Hits. Yeah.

That's just wonderful. That's a great part of being a musician, isn't it? Well, you know, it is an accomplishment, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's amazing. When I put that record out, I felt like every song on there was bonafide hit. You know what I mean? It wasn't like this two hits and a bunch of filler.

Yeah, sometimes you see people, and you're like, a little early on the Greatest Hits. A little early. You can't say three songs, and then the other ones you're new to. Yeah, we put four new songs on there, which were blessed.

Concrete Angel. Oh, shoot. I can't remember. When God from When We Get the Blues, and I Think, Where Would You Be?

And that was humongous. And you have been called, and I just want to ask one question about this, you've been called the Celine Dion of country music. That's crazy. That's the moniker you have.

Being the Celine Dion of country music, have you cloned any of your dogs? No, that's Barbra Streisand. Oh, shit, I got him wrong. Ay, ay, ay.

Although, I wouldn't put cats. No, she has to have some cloned cats or something. Have you cloned any animals yet? No, yeah.

You guys are building your legend, you know what I'm saying? You've got to do some crazy eccentric shit. That was a woman full of champagne or something. Now, you also, as I said earlier, you were a female vocalist of the year several times, and you tied Reba McIntyre.

And can I do my Reba McIntyre impersonation for you really quick? Don't look at him while he does it. I love her, too. You don't look at his face.

I'm Reba Brackenbrier. That's my full impersonation. I say her name, but I change it to Reba Brackenbrier. I'm Reba Brackenbrier.

Why? I'm so confused. I don't know. My wife was hosting the award show, and I met her.

I met Reba. I was so excited. She gave me, like, the Tom Cruise level, like, here's my full energy. And she goes, I'm Reba Brackenbrier.

No, she did not. Oh, my God. And I said to Kristen, I think she said her name is Reba Brackenbrier. That really happened.

That did not happen. Clearly, she knows her own name, but I swear to God, it sounded like Reba Brackenbrier. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

You're good. What are you on, Scrubs? Now, quick question. Are you going to have her on the show?

Of course. Oh, we'd love to have her. But her initials will say BB. BB.

Reba Brackenbrier. I want to ask, have you gotten to be friendly and friends with some of your heroes? I have, actually. Yeah.

It's amazing. And so I've gotten to spend a lot of time with Loretta Lynn. Oh, yeah. She's just awesome.

And Reba. I got to meet Waylon Jennings. Oh. And Willie.

Oh, wow. Do you watch this show called Tales from the Tour Bus? Yes. You've seen it?

I love it, yeah. Okay, so there's a Waylon. Waylon got a two-part episode. And what they do is they interview the whole band, and they tell you the history of the musician, and then they animate it.

Mike Judge makes it. He animates the stories. It's so great. The first season's all country stars.

Almost all of them have shot somebody. They've not gone to jail over it. But my favorite part was, he's talking to, like, the drummer of his band, and he goes, he goes, yeah, you know, before shows, we would take uppers, and we all would want to make sure we was on the same page. So I'm going around the circle.

I said, Jimmy, how many uppers do you want? He said, I'm on three. I said, Mike, what do you want? He said, I'm on three.

I said, good, I'm on three. You hauls? I'm on 42. It was Wild Wild West back then.

Oh, my God. I always really fantasized about that lifestyle, because it was fucking hard partying. Somehow they all had these awesome wives, and no one seemed to give a shit. And as a young man, I was like, they figured it out.

They're on Yellow Jackets, and Sidewinders, and Blue Widows, and Black Beamers, and popping pills, and singing music. He was sweating like a motherfucker. Oh, my God. You can't find a picture of Waylon that doesn't look like you just hopped out of a sauna.

True. That's so true. Now, when you met Waylon, that was in his calmer years, I'd imagine. Yeah, it was.

I opened a couple shows for him, and my dad idolized Waylon. Yeah. And he kind of looked like him. He had a beard and a kind of long hair and wore the cowboy hat, and that was kind of his persona, you know, minus the speed and the drugs.

Sure, sure. That we know of. So when I met Waylon, I was like, you know, I'm so happy to meet you, and you just remind me so much of my dad, which is probably a terrible thing for me to say to him. He's probably like, nice.

But anyway, he took a picture with me, and I got to see him several times after that. And it was just, yeah, I mean, that kind of thing, meeting your heroes. First of all, I'm so shocked that they even know who I am. Yes.

It's so flattering, right? Have you ever had your dad out to play with you? My dad got to sing on the Opry with me. Oh, he did?

Twice, yeah. I had him on stage to sing, and, you know, I was so nervous for him. He was fine. He channeled his inner Waylon.

But it was like such a cool thing for, I guess, for me to be able to do for him, because he's listened to the Opry since he was a kid, and probably in a different place in time would have pursued a career as an artist. Yeah. And so I'm standing there going, I'm so nervous for him. And of course, he opens his mouth, he has his guitar, he opens his mouth for singing, and it's like, oh, yeah, this is the guy that taught me.

I mean, he knows what he's doing. Yeah. It's so sweet to be able to share that with him. And my younger brother was playing guitar on the stage with me, so we got to kind of, you know, go back in time a little bit.

Yeah, that's so beautiful. And isn't it nice? We were talking about it earlier. It's like, yeah, you can get used to success, and you can take it for granted.

And it's hard to actually even sometimes internalize the good things that are happening in your life, but it's much easier when you see that you could give your dad an opportunity like that. Like, isn't that kind of, isn't that moment almost better than any moment you've had for yourself? Oh, yeah. A hundred percent.

Yeah. Yeah. To be able to, you know. Like, Monica's rich and famous now.

That makes me so much happier than anything I've ever done. Oh, she's lovely, guys. And it was one of those experiences where it was just, we clicked, you know, and they clicked with my whole band and crew and my family. And, you know, sometimes when you go out on tour with an artist, there's a separation that happens.

With us, we stay, we were out in the parking lot every night after the show until the crew would pack up and we'd move on, just having some drinks and talking and listening to music. And they're the salt of the earth, by the way. I'm so talented. I cannot root for them enough.

And so I think what they maybe took away from that was how to treat opening acts on tour now that they're in that position. And so just to be able to see them and watch that star take off. Yeah. Have you ever been in Willie's bus?

I have. Yep. What happens on Willie's bus? He's on Willie's bus.

Willie's got like Vatican status, right? Like wherever his bus is, it's legal. Yeah, exactly. He's a sovereign nation within our nation, right?

And now his son is using his bus, Lucas Nelson. Oh, he's, yeah. Yeah, he's fantastic. I imagine they don't even have to light up in there anymore.

Just shut the door and take a couple deep breaths. I went out to Pilgrim Festival to interview Lucas for my podcast. I walked on the bus and saw him before the show and I left that bus feeling kind of happy. I didn't even do anything.

It was just from the air. Yeah. I'm 15 years sober and I went to interview. Oh, thank you.

I went and I was going to write some project and I thought Kevin Smith, that writer-director, you know Kevin Smith? I thought, oh, he knows a lot about superheroes. I'll go talk to him. And so I went to his office and he's like, oh, yeah, I'd be happy to talk to you.

He's like, you mind if I smoke pot? I'm like, no, not at all. Go crazy. And I was in there for two and a half, three hours talking about Superman with him while he burned doobies.

I was riding home on my motorcycle and I was like, I'm going so slow. I never ride this slow. I'm always in a hurry. And I'm just like, don't think I got out of second gear that whole ride home.

And I was like, oh, I think I got a freebie. You're planning like a meeting a month with him. I got to meet with Kevin. I got to work with him nightly now on this project.

I'll never write. Stay tuned for more live show after this exciting commercial break. Tell me about your podcast. What's the name of your podcast?

It's called Vocal Point. Vocal Point, yeah. Okay. And Luminary.

Luminary. And how often do you record it? I have to work around whenever people are available. So we have 26 episodes in the first season.

I think we've recorded maybe 18 or 19 so far. Oh, yeah. But I think we've had five or six released. Okay.

Barth was the first one. Uh-huh. Coming up, I got to talk with Loretta and Brenda Lee. John Party was this week.

Did you enjoy it? I love it. You know, I love it. I'm kind of an introvert, so I don't know how I'd like it.

I was kind of like, I don't know. But I've loved it. And what I've loved the most about it is getting to sit down with these artists. For instance, John Party or Pam Tillis.

We've known each other for, Pam Tillis and I have known each other for years. We kind of see each other backstage. But I've never sat down and had a conversation with her. Yeah.

So it's really fun to, I just have to talk with Vince Gill and Amy Grant. Oh, no kidding. Coming up around Christmas time. And, you know, I've known them for years.

But to sit down in this capacity, what I love about it, too, is that people when they're out of the promotion cycle, they're not just saying the same old soundbites. I think people see a different side of them and a different side of me, because it's like this. It's just a conversation, which is so cool. And, yeah, I've interviewed, like, friends I've had for a decade where, in this context, all of a sudden, we're talking about stuff I would have never known about them.

Or even my mother, like, talking to my mom and going, like, oh, I guess I would ask anyone else I was interviewing this question, so now I've got to ask you this question. Yeah, it's really kind of a special little cocoon you get into, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that's fantastic. Now, I want to talk about your charity work, because I noticed you work with several, you're the spokesperson for the National Domestic Violence Hotline, or you are at one time work. And a lot of your work is about domestic violence. And I'm curious, what drew you to that?

It all started with a song I had called Independence Day. In a really realistic, hard-hitting way, if the record company wants to sugarcoat it, I just don't want to do it. So we really made, for the time, was a really hard-hitting video. Because growing up in a small town, of course, there's probably domestic violence, but nobody knew about it.

It was really swept under the rug. And so I had no idea. It never really occurred to me, to be honest, and in the scope of it. And so when I recorded Independence Day, when I heard that song, I was so enraged.

It just ignited this passion in me to try to figure out a way to make a difference. And so that's how I got started working with the National Domestic Violence Hotline and a great teen dating website called Love is Respect. I can remember feeling so on fire about this issue. Yeah.

And not because you had personally experienced it or witnessed it? Not really. I mean, I think, you know, as women, I feel like we, if we're really honest with ourselves, we've all been kind of helpless at the hands of a man. Yeah.

There's so many layers to it, right? You just think like, oh, someone kicking someone's ass. Well, that's one thing. But then there's these layers of control, right?

Yeah. And there's gaslighting. And there's all these things that us terrible men do. But it can start small, right?

Like, I read a quote of yours. It's like, I don't want to hang out with your friends. Right? So like, first is like a step of isolation.

Isolation, sure. Like, getting your lady away from the other people in her life that might point out, you know, Paul's kind of an asshole. Yeah. That's kind of the strategy, right?

And not letting him be with your family. Right. Or talk on the phone. Or have any money that's in your own control.

Did you watch the R. Kelly documentary? I did. Oh, my God.

When you look at those steps, it's just a game plan of how to do this. And yeah, it keeps ratcheting up. Then call me daddy. Now I'll tell you when you can eat.

All these things. So people need to know, oh, they could be in an abusive relationship or controlling relationship that doesn't maybe have the physical aspect. Sometimes when I'm performing on stage, I think to myself, statistically, someone in this room is being abused. I was at a show and they hear it.

And my hope is that it gives them some kind of, I mean, I got so many letters about that song back in the day when people still wrote fan letters. And I mean, just reading over and over about the impact of that song. And my point is, I don't take credit for that because I feel like I was just a vehicle that that song flowed through to do its thing in the world that it was meant to do. I'm so lucky that I'm grateful that I got to sing that song.

But it did make a big difference for so many women. Sometimes they would say, I've been in this relationship for 10 years. I heard the song on the radio and went home and got out. That's amazing.

Yeah, that's amazing. And it's true that because those folks are probably isolated to such a degree that weirdly, the only thing that might penetrate that bubble is a song or is a movie or is a show or something that can get in there. And make them feel like they're not the only one going through it. Because that's the thing, right?

Everyone feels very alone in all of their own trauma. And that's not their fault. You know, I had my mom on, which is my favorite interview. I know her whole past and I had a stepdad that abused her and I witnessed all that.

And the disconnect I had was, I know my mom. She's a fucking badass. She raised three kids by herself and built this business and she's tough. She would get out of the stoplight and challenge guys to fights and stuff.

I mean, she was a beast. She is a beast. And I had never thought to ask her, like, how could you of all people have been in a relationship? And she said, you know, I was so ashamed to admit I had failed again.

I'd already been divorced from your dad. And now I knew I was going to have to call my parents and say I did it again. But that shame, I would rather get hit than have to deal with that shame. And that fucking broke my heart.

And I just thought, man, that is the power of shame. And that's the power of people not sharing their imperfections and not owning all this many struggles that we all are up against all the time. So it's so important. I thank you so much for being a part of that.

I'm really happy that you've spent your time and energy helping women like that. Well, you guys in Nashville, we love you so much. I want to thank Martina. You guys, let's give her a huge round of applause.

Miniture mouse. You guys are beautiful. And I hope you'll have us back. We would love to come back.

Thank you guys so much. And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate, Monica Patman. Nashville, boy, what a town. What a town.

Tinky town. What fun food. King Prime we ate at. We did.

We loved it. We loved that place. Yeah. Is this as good as Houston's?

It might be. Kristen thinks it's better. Right. I don't.

I'm not going to say it's better. Yeah. I don't think it's better, but I did love it. It's a bar.

It's in the same world. It is. It's Houston's. So delicious.

And then, God, Huey, Houston Estes. Houston Estes. He makes me so happy. Yeah.

I enjoy his company so much. Houston is our friend that we got to see in Nashville. He told me to audit my business manager. Yep.

I love him so much. He's so fun to talk to. Yeah. And you got to party with your friends just so far.

I know. My friends, my nice friends. Your good-looking friends. My beautiful, good-looking, nice friends grow up.

And I was really excited because one of them has been in love with Martina since she was just a little gal. Oh, really? And she was so excited. She got to get a picture with her.

Oh, good. Yeah. I was happy I could give that to her. Yeah.

I was really, I don't know if I gave anything to her, but I was excited. You were a part of her meeting someone she loved. Yeah. I like that.

I really liked Martina. Me, too. Yeah. She has some kind of smooth confidence that I really am drawn to.

Me, too. Me, too. She's very special. Yeah.

I think I fell in love with her a little bit. Oh, wow. Yeah. But John was there.

John I fell in love with. Yeah. He was great, too. Speaking of, he sat next to my friends.

Oh, he did? Yeah. The whole time, he was just fact-checking her. Oh, he was like, oh, it was 178 shows.

Well, that would be me. I was laughing. I was listening to Kristen get interviewed. Yeah.

Yeah. Such a husband and wife thing to do. Okay. So, you said that the average kid watches a million murders on TV by the time they're eight.

The average child will watch 8,000 murders. I think you got the eight number. I was being facetious. I didn't really think it was a million, but that's a lot.

8,000? Before finishing elementary school. Oh. On TV, yeah.

I feel like it would be a pertinent time to mention Jack Nicholson's great quote. If you hack a breast off with a machete, that's PG-13. If you lick a breast, it's NC-17. Yeah.

You have to talk about that. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. It's a real good.

It's an eye-opener for what we allow. What we're threatened by. Yeah, exactly. We're threatened by sensuality and not hacking a tit off with a machete.

I know. That's disturbing to me. It's so disturbing. You know, some people were understandably put off by the Richard Dawkins interview.

Mm-hmm. They felt like he and or I or both of us were too harsh on religion. On religion. I understand that.

I think I'm supportive of people being whatever they want to be that makes them happy. Mm-hmm. So, I'm not being critical of any specific religion, but I do hate how puritanical our country is. When it comes to sex, it really bothers me.

It's like so laden with shame. I think it's all about the patriarchy, too. I think it's all, the foundation of it all is males' fear of women having pleasure and them not being the one that provides it to them, or their fear of being terrible lovers or insignificant. I think that's the bedrock of it.

Maybe. And so this puritanical thing and the notion that being sensual is dangerous or sexuality is dangerous. Right. I think it's rooted in male insecurity somehow.

I like that. That's probably true. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons and layers. I mean, you are the most vulnerable when you're naked and you're intimate with someone.

But in the most beautiful way imaginable. Well, or not. Or you're getting taken advantage of, or you're getting... Yeah, but the percentage of the sexual activity that happens in America, that is something negative over a criminal, daily rate, it's under 1%.

Whereas all violence is violence. Yeah. No one's loving getting hit in the head with a bat. That just doesn't exist.

Right, right, right. We're getting shot. No one's pumped they got shot. Right.

But the vast, vast, vast, vast, 99.9% of people are being sexual. It's a pleasurable experience. And that vulnerability is a beautiful thing. It's like you're saying to someone, I trust you to take me like this, uncovered.

That's what a beautiful thing. Yeah. And that's somehow negative. I know.

I agree. It's disturbing to me. It seems backwards, for sure. A study in the Journal of Pediatrics says the average eight-year-old child spends eight hours a day on media.

By age 18, a U.S. youth will have seen 16,000 simulated murders and 200,000 acts of violence. Well, I guess if they're a boy and they have the internet, they've probably also seen 6.9 million sexual scenes. Probably.

Well, I don't know that those are independent of violence. And by the way, that's the result of ushering it into the fringes. Yeah, I agree. You reap exactly what you sow.

Like, if you think lovemaking's dirty and shameful, then that's what you get. That's what you're going to get. Yeah. It doesn't mean you're just going to turn that section of your brain off.

No. It's just going to get, like, pervertized. Yeah, exactly. Fetacized.

Yes. Proclivitized. Yeah. If you leave it to people who have no regard for society to present it, then, you know.

Yeah. I agree. Steven Spielberg should be making a lovemaking scene, you know? I'm sure he has.

I don't think he has. Yes, he has. I don't think he fucks with sex. I don't see these guys don't fuck with sex.

They're like, even Tarantino. Tarantino, who's so bold and so fearless. No lovemaking scenes. Ever.

There's a couple of rape scenes. Yeah. There's a great, great sexually charged date between Vincent Vega and Uma Thurma's character. Couldn't be more romantic and sexy, but there's no physical sexy stuff.

I think it's a little disturbing that he's not showing that and then showing rape. That's kind of my point, though, is that all of these people feel much more comfortable with violence than they do with sensuality. Yeah. Even a guy as fearless as him is afraid.

I don't know if he's afraid. He's never done it. I don't know why. It does beg the question why there's no lovemaking scene in any Tarantino movie.

I'm sure there's a lovemaking scene in a Spielberg movie. There has to be. Maybe. I can't think of one.

But yeah, maybe you're right. We'll put that on the list. Rob, you're in fact check. Was there no lovemaking scene in True Reliance?

He only did the screenplay. And yeah, there was lovemaking scenes, but I think that was all Ridley Scott or Tony Scott, whichever one directed that. They have tons of lovemaking scenes, like Top Gun and Days of Thunder. There's beautiful lovemaking scenes with Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and all that.

Some people do it, but I think a lot of directors are very nervous about it. That's so interesting. I mean, in my head, most movies have lovemaking scenes and not all like earned. Like, you know, it's just like a girl just decides to have sex with a guy.

Yeah. But I don't think there's like a lack of lovemaking scenes in movies. I'm going to say, on the count of three, say your very favorite lovemaking scene. One, two, three.