Livestream: From Marital Debt to Mutual Submission. Has the Church changed? episode artwork

EPISODE · Aug 25, 2025 · 1H 44M

Livestream: From Marital Debt to Mutual Submission. Has the Church changed?

from Uncharted Catholic Man · host Craig and Jonah

Did Aquinas make errors, does "Mutual Submission" mean anything, and is the Story of Onan real?Historical Figures and Neurodivergence (8:01-12:02): The conversation shifts to historical Catholic figures and saints, with Midnight Philosopher bringing up a Twitter discussion about potential neurodivergent tendencies or disturbing ideas some saints held regarding sex and suffering. They suggest that the Church tends to emphasize less controversial stories of saints.Evolution of Church Teachings (12:05-15:56): Craig and Midnight Philosopher discuss how the Church's teachings evolve, particularly concerning historical figures like Thomas Aquinas who made errors (e.g., denying the Immaculate Conception of Mary). They note that the Church often quietly moves on from past errors rather than issuing explicit repudiations, which can create a perception of infallibility for certain figures and ideas.Mortal Sin and Sexual Sins (17:30-21:12): The discussion delves into the concept of mortal sin, particularly focusing on the two main categories often highlighted: missing Sunday Mass/holy days and sexual sins. They analyze the differing perceived "difficulty levels" of various sexual sins like adultery, contraception, and masturbation, and how these are all considered grave matters despite their varied impact and frequency in people's lives.Marital Debt and Mutual Submission (22:49-33:00): They critically examine the traditional concept of "marital debt," finding it objectifying and "loveless," especially when used to threaten mortal sin or place blame. They contrast it with the concept of "mutual submission" from the Theology of the Body, which they see as a softer, more communicative approach, though Craig also finds it somewhat "nonsensical" if it implies sex is purely optional. They argue that while sex is an integral need in marriage, the approach to discussing it should be communicative and loving, not cold or legalistic.The Story of Onan (33:53-43:30): The conversation concludes with a discussion about the story of Onan, questioning whether it's a historical event or a metaphor and its integral role in the Church's teachings on contraception and masturbation. They highlight how the changing justifications for certain moral teachings (from biblical stories to philosophical arguments) can unravel the foundational logic if the initial premises are no longer held true. They also touch on the similar debate regarding the literal interpretation of Adam and Eve and creationism versus evolution.

Did Aquinas make errors, does "Mutual Submission" mean anything, and is the Story of Onan real?Historical Figures and Neurodivergence (8:01-12:02): The conversation shifts to historical Catholic figures and saints, with Midnight Philosopher bringing up a Twitter discussion about potential neurodivergent tendencies or disturbing ideas some saints held regarding sex and suffering. They suggest that the Church tends to emphasize less controversial stories of saints.Evolution of Church Teachings (12:05-15:56): Craig and Midnight Philosopher discuss how the Church's teachings evolve, particularly concerning historical figures like Thomas Aquinas who made errors (e.g., denying the Immaculate Conception of Mary). They note that the Church often quietly moves on from past errors rather than issuing explicit repudiations, which can create a perception of infallibility for certain figures and ideas.Mortal Sin and Sexual Sins (17:30-21:12): The discussion delves into the concept of mortal sin, particularly focusing on the two main categories often highlighted: missing Sunday Mass/holy days and sexual sins. They analyze the differing perceived "difficulty levels" of various sexual sins like adultery, contraception, and masturbation, and how these are all considered grave matters despite their varied impact and frequency in people's lives.Marital Debt and Mutual Submission (22:49-33:00): They critically examine the traditional concept of "marital debt," finding it objectifying and "loveless," especially when used to threaten mortal sin or place blame. They contrast it with the concept of "mutual submission" from the Theology of the Body, which they see as a softer, more communicative approach, though Craig also finds it somewhat "nonsensical" if it implies sex is purely optional. They argue that while sex is an integral need in marriage, the approach to discussing it should be communicative and loving, not cold or legalistic.The Story of Onan (33:53-43:30): The conversation concludes with a discussion about the story of Onan, questioning whether it's a historical event or a metaphor and its integral role in the Church's teachings on contraception and masturbation. They highlight how the changing justifications for certain moral teachings (from biblical stories to philosophical arguments) can unravel the foundational logic if the initial premises are no longer held true. They also touch on the similar debate regarding the literal interpretation of Adam and Eve and creationism versus evolution.

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Livestream: From Marital Debt to Mutual Submission. Has the Church changed?

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Did Aquinas make errors, does "Mutual Submission" mean anything, and is the Story of Onan real?Historical Figures and Neurodivergence (8:01-12:02): The conversation shifts to historical Catholic figures and saints, with Midnight Philosopher bringing...

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