Lizzy Borden

In the dead of night, as people sleep, that's when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three, dark things take power. We like to call it the supernatural hour. Best sign out.

What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. And unfortunately, I know every corner right now, so they miss you and say the idiotic thing that somebody just said. Yeah. Man, it's got to be original.

It's got to come from the heart though. You can't steal it from Billy Madison. No, but the whole thing's funny. It is funny, but that's kind of long for a sign out.

You stole everything, you have some fun storming the castle. Yeah, well, that's why I did steal that from Princess Bride, and I changed it because peace out butterflies is a short, sweet to the point. Yeah, I would. I'm not giving a freaking monologue on my sign off.

No, that's why it's funny though. Oh, okay. Welcome everybody to Supernatural Hour. The battle will reach.

I am your host, Castle. I'm the battle of the side-offs at the start of the show. With me, I've got another host, Tim. What's happening?

I like this microphone. And we've got Mike, aka Boo Boo. Howdy how? I still don't like this name.

I don't know about this. I don't know how I feel about it either. We'll come up with one. We'll have one.

Maybe I can be a Facebook poll. Maybe it should be a Facebook poll. They can be Castle Beaker and Mike. I'm not going to look for it.

I don't know. I'm all for it. Maybe we should let the listeners decide. Oh dear.

Is Boo Boo a good name? You know, we tried that once with Granny Cinnamon and we never actually did the poll like we said we were going to. Well, I have connections. We can put that on.

I know. We definitely couldn't. We should do a poll. Boo Boo.

I don't know. It doesn't quite fit you though. Last time I heard about a poll to name something. It was a boat in Britain and it got named booty-mick.

So I don't know. Yeah, maybe we better not do that. Well, we'll just call him. Captain Tarkin.

This could go poorly. So tonight we have got some fun things in store and we've had a lot of investigations since our last we're gonna spend an hour just coming up with a name from Mike Hold on to your butts Okay, so By the way, we're changing up the format of the show just a tiny bit and what I mean by that so we're not gonna actually change What we do we just realize that we're making guys listen like 40 minutes of us BS and before we actually get into the topic Which is kind of not cool. We're already 15 in so we are going to actually try and get some of this out Of the beginning and then add some of the other stuff near the end of the show We're gonna see how that goes so if you guys like listening to us BS by business in 40 minutes Let us know and go back to that but I guess much rather listen to uh I have stuff than I was talking about yeah I have a feeling that I have a feeling no one can complain about us getting to the topic quicker I mean I know I've listened to other podcasts and I love everybody that does the podcast But yeah for me sometimes it's rough and tough listening you talk about nothing for an hour before you finally get into your actual topic That's why I have a hard time listening to a lot of podcasts. It's like all right I don't care so but I mean we're doing this off for you guys so whatever you want us to do We'll do it except for you know jump off a bridge because we like living.

Let's get some business out of the way I think we have some investigations coming up Tim yes, so I know last episode We did announce that we were gonna be going to some of the buildings in your UK Utah unfortunately due to some scheduling conflicts With some of us here at Wisps being out of town that weekend or apps. I don't know what we are anymore But that's paranormal services Yeah, there's speakers plumbing the mike squad actually that's not too There's just there's some issues with the scheduling with the venue itself and so we're still gonna be doing investigations that same weekend But we're gonna be bringing you two nights instead of just one we're gonna be Friday August April Friday August Just over the four August jump right ahead Friday April 26th and Saturday April 27th. We're going back to our favorite venue fear factory This time though we are doing fair factory. I don't know we just didn't talk.

I don't know family tree I saw her she perked up unless I let's see a family tree restaurant kids You know what I think it's time we might need to start implementing like a random drug test like I'm safe I'm safe. I don't know if that's true to him. I drive a forklift for a living and I have to be in my right state of mind Based on your performance tonight so far that doesn't inspire confidence You've been bitten by a spider or received an injection of morphine sulfate Why are you looking at your lizzy board notes when you're asking those questions like is that in there for some reason? Yes, okay, I'm scared Maybe not the radioactive spider thing, but yeah, no, I'm not spider-man.

Um family tree We're going to family tree again now. Here's another little twist of the sound like three investigation in the past The tickets have been a little spendy and we've included dinner in that This is actually gonna be a little less spendy, but dinner is gonna be on your own dinners not included a ticket price And so it's gonna be a little bit more reasonable if the ticket price is kind of scared your way You can come and just investigate not for you about dinner if you want to pick up dinner while you're there You're welcome to do that but that won't be included in your ticket price So keeping out for that that should be going up on our website here. Hopefully by the time this airs should be going up by the time This episode airs so go to advanced for normal calm and you can pick up your tickets there for both April 26th and April 27th to family tree family tree Great venue even if you've been there. I've been there.

I don't know how many times that's fascinating and interesting every single time I go I've never been disappointed with the venue as far as venue quality goes Speaking of venues Tim do you want to tell us about the fear factory investigation? We went to fear factory and we investigated Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to investigate I was there mainly just to get people settled in and going because I got that wonderful forced over time that my work loves to give me So I'm actually gonna turn the time over to Mike and talk about some of his experiences because he actually did get to I was there. I lived it It was that was great. It's my first time ever going to a family tree restaurant fear factory.

Yes What have you done to me we went to fear factory? All right, where's the cup? I just want to start over here. This is like yes, okay So this is my first time ever going to fear factory.

I have driven by it numerous times I've seen it on TV. I've heard about it, but I'm not much for for spook alleys because I just get annoyed by all the people The guy chasing out the chainsaw thought the blank on it. Oh, they're just gonna get annoying they get right in your face It's like okay, you're cute. You got high school tomorrow go away Get out of my face because you don't scare me and so not being scared of them.

It just kind of you know Anyway, so This one yeah, we're trying to sign which side of the microphone as well speaking to speak into speaking to the side of the red glowy light Okay, you're not the red light facing you There we go. Is that better? Yeah, yeah, no better. Okay, homies.

Here we go All right, you'll cut that part right no no, no, okay, so okay, so fair factory I got it right this time So we got there We had a big briefing the getting part Tim was there for that part. They broke us up into separate groups, which we usually do By the way before we get to start I tend up to you as I understand we had a couple little snafoos in that one getting started And yeah, we don't talk about those well I was gonna say our investigations are usually very well oiled and run real well But we had a couple snafoos and so for those who are there we apologize for the delay and getting started That's not how we do a spring break. We'll take a little bit of slower apologizing for delays I want to apologize for this episode a week late. Yes We will be back again next week and then from there We'll be back every other week back on schedule if you're in Utah it was spring break for two of us Tim doesn't have kids so castle was out of state I don't have a life I was out of town, but I did come home for the investigation early much to my family's Grumbles by the way, Terry I have a spring break story, but I'm gonna wait till after you talk about your factory, okay?

So I'm here back. We go down. We went down to my group. We had down to the catacombs first and you've been a fair factory It's a very big venue.

I'm in the catacombs first It's long and narrow it's kind of hard for big groups and so we spread out along the corridor there We ran into we had spirits all over. I don't know what do you want to know? I'm talking about any particular events or activities. I didn't have any of you.

I personally didn't record anything because I figured there's so many people that I probably just pick up cars on the freeway, but we did have people in our group that did record things We did have a nice conversation with a lovely lady I forget her name now and her husband worked there and is in the one building with the electrodes It's the same building the catacombs are in but it's like the second level up open that one tower Yeah, the one tower on the south side south tower They were lovely they were very gracious a lot of us into their home, you know, but cooked us brownies They were great with the small brownies over in the other tower. It goes cookie brownies. Yeah, it was awesome. I bought man stupid work So we went over over into the we got a lot of activity down there in the in the catacombs first and There's some stuff that was over on this the stairs on the very south end and so that Occupied a lot of time there when we rotated over went over to the other building the north tower and in the I'm thinking it's a seance room is a round room with a table in the middle sounds like a Sam's room to me.

I was like a Sam's room, but there was we did have one spirit We were talking to in there that wouldn't believe us that he was dead that he was playing with the ghost meter pro But he he wouldn't believe us that he was dead He was just passing through and he's like that's kind of cool and he was thought yeah And then into the famous silos we went into the health silo now If you've ever got an investigation with us, I have my spirit guide Mary who's always with us She is always quick with dowsing rods. She is right on the spot with an answer and I can feel that energy when she answers I know it's her in the health silo. There was a type two spirit and they're very powerful It's a really dark probably the most famous in the darkest spot in the whole venue There's a lot of type three spirits that kind of wandered that venue as well But I know you had a like your time at engineering experience with this one This is the first time Mary has not answered me when I asked her questions and asked her to point to things My rods were just perfectly still and it was actually really concerning me because she was not answering and it was very Unusual so I was worried that it was that she was being affected or something bad had happened to her and she told me after we were done That she was there she was trying but he was holding on to the rods and wouldn't wouldn't allow her to answer So that guy's but but other than that it got cold We had some people start leaving early because they got cold and it was so much chilly There were two sweatshirts now you guys also have some residential destinations recently having it we did yes We did actually so the first one is I believe the daughter of one of our listeners actually contacted us and asked us for some help So I went out there with peaches with Dell with Leave mark was there then we had nate and Dave For me it was kind of fun because I'm still like opening up and I was actually able to pinpoint that there was one Spirit standing right behind me and I actually got part of her name brandy was able to help me the rest of her but her little girl named Anna Lee Happened to be walking through and saw the family saw the dogs thought it was a safe place to say so she just the little girl just kind of hanging out and I believe she was from like Arkansas or something I'm Missouri Michigan summer back east and she just like it's all the dogs thought I was a safe place to say so she's hanging out the family is kind of okay with that They didn't mind that she was there, but there's also two type 2s. There's type 2a and a type 2b The type 2b actually came with they had some ancient like ceremonial masks and like warm masks from Africa Some old artifacts and it was funny because I was actually able to pick up on as I was trying to figure out You know why the spiritual they're like why is this here?

And I just kind of look at brandy and I'm like well It's from that mask kicking up there on the wall and she confirmed that it actually was so he was there and it's funny because this family's actually had this mask for 10 some odd years and They never got any activity from the spirit and even in their old home before they moved in their current home And they were doing some remodeling so we think that's what kind of kicked things up And kind of got the spirit mad that's why he's starting to act up and he was getting the other type 2 to He was kind of coursing this other spirit to help act up and cause problems for the family So what we did is and we did a little bit of investigation trying to figure out why the two guys were there We talked to a little girl. You know found out why she was there kept the girl You know we told her she could stay because the family was fine with it They didn't have any problems with that I know that they did mention that they've woke up in the middle night They've heard little girls laughing in the hallway. They don't have any other kids are grown. They're all adults So they you know they thought I was weird, but they know what it is now or who it is now and they're kind of fine with that But as far as like we got some advice from Jamilin darling on how to break the attachment for the mask and the spirit which evolved basically bearing the mask and And I asked Randy to actually because I have different smudge rays that actually made for me specifically on investigations by Michelle Newman She's been a huge help with making sure I have the right stuff that I need when I go and do house cleansings So we're actually able to use one of the smudge rays that she made to break the attachment So we don't have to break the mask or anything the family didn't have to wait for all that to go So we broke Brandi did her your little ritual with the the mask And used this much way went on she's able to break that attachment that we went around we sage the house Salted the drains and the windows says and all of that they'll also has his own smudge way that he makes now as well for house cleanses so between the two different smudge plays and the Stays that we were using and we also had mark going around blessing each room and blessing the house We were able to get all the spirits out of the house and keep them out except for you know We gave the little girl permission to stay so they were fine with that But we were able to get him out of the house and I actually saw the lady yesterday Because I was on a follow-up to Mike's investigation He's gonna talk about here in a second and she told me that it's been about two weeks since we were out there But everything of the house is calm and peaceful now They've got some of the best that they've had in a long time So everything is going good for them and it's always nice to hear that follow up that feedback from when we go How people that everything is working everything's fine in the house now so Mike actually went and investigated it was actually Her mom's house.

Yeah, so we had received where their parents were having issues with a lot of water mysterious water And so some things that they were that we understood was that there were puddles that were appearing on the floor just out of random places Places where there's no overhead pipes. There was no leakage from the ceilings They were there's like water to put it on a dresser. There was a tax on him personally where he would wake up Just soaking wet dripping sweat, but yet the blanket underneath like the mattress wasn't wet The blanket on top was and so like water was being you know splashed on him and They were also seeing a lot of shadows in the house as well Most of the activity was on one side of the house near the master bedroom But we went we went in the master bedroom first we determined that there were two spirits that were in there as well as a portal in there and We were also we were the team we had was we had Lara and her son Jared and we also had Dave super Dave we love you Dave and myself so it was just the four of us and We also picked on we went up downstairs to kind of you know investigate the whole house before we just because that's what we do and we went downstairs and there was a big portal downstairs and We also in that same room with the big portal there was a teenage girl who had passed away We determined her name was Kristen and she had made some poor life choices was very embarrassed about that It was afraid of being judged so she didn't go to the light was afraid to cross her in fact at first She was afraid to talk to us but Just talking with her and just convincing her that we were friendly and Mary talking to her Laura I was talking to her and finally she opened up a little bit and was able to tell us that the portal was there And that there was a really really mean spirit over across the hall and across the hall which was the laundry room So we go over to the laundry room and he was definitely in there I mean, I'm not really all that sensitive But I could feel that cold and that negative energy there and you could go stand kind of right where he was and you could definitely feel it Some of them are on our team that were that are sensitive in fact all three of the other members somewhere with me were Are sensitive and they could feel like him pushing like he was you know physically affecting them So what's ironic with that was so going back to these puddles that are appearing the puddles on the floor would smell like fabric softener Most people aren't easily said the homeowner said I'm not in the habit of just going around and smelling random puddles But he got down and smelled them there was a fabric softener there They also had another instance that was kind of interesting where they she had five pairs of Levi's that were stacked up on On the dresser there and the bottom three pairs were soaked but the top two pairs were not like the water had come up Which was really interesting in that room where this type two is was all the five fabric softener right next to there was someone on the floor there was someone on the table there and The girl there christen told us that he was the one that was doing it which I've not heard of type two's being able to do I was about to interject and say based on all the water stuff It sounds an awful lot like I know we've talked about it on the show before but a water elemental That's kind of indicative of a water elemental you know and explain puddles just all the weird water issues You're talking about sounds an awful lot like a water elemental right and that we went in actually expecting it to be that from the preliminary reports We had it also said that was almost a stuff usually only happens when there's water in the canal behind the house too So we went in thinking water elemental but all things indicated delts when we were investigating well, you know Elementals are really difficult to diagnose I guess for lack of a better word, so you very well could have had a water elemental and not realized it and dealt with it I know that I know that you guys contacted me ahead of time and I Sent you guys with some tools to deal with that But didn't even end up using any of those so yeah I mean those are all signs that point towards a while water elemental and I probably would have thought the same thing however This house is surrounded by ley lines, which feeds energy to spirits So the fact that the house was just basically full of emf Due to these ley lines and the river the creek right behind the house that type two was actually able to feed off of all the energy coming from The ley lines that that's what caused him to have the ability to do the puddles whatnot So we cleanse them out we smoked them out with sage we did do salt and basil in the in the portals to try to help To finish the portals we were able to shrink one of them But that's the reason why Tim and and peaches went back the next day so they could go and close off the portals that we didn't yet But I was happy to hear that so asked Tim and what was the report what what happened You know was there anything left there the spirits come back in after we cleanse the house and you told me there were no spirits left There that they were all still out there was just the portals and it was pretty quick they didn't out visit the family is very Excited for what you guys did for them They their little dog they've had since it was a pop he was awesome. Yeah This little guy has been afraid to sleep pretty much his entire life because they've been in this house for like seven years And they've had this dog to see the puppy They said after you guys left he curled up on the couch and went right to sleep no problems for the first time in seven years And you know they kind of wish that they had known us seven years ago So they didn't have to deal with all this but unfortunately we weren't around then we've only been around for about five years But yeah, I mean that's why we do this is knowing that we help people feel better in their own homes But they definitely did feel better I followed up we actually went back a peaches caden and myself and there was there was actually two portals They were still open how the one that you guys try to close on another one so brandy and caden worked their magic got the portals closed and After that was everything It's nice to go to a clinic to cleanse the house a clear house and then you feel that feeling you just like it feels so different So and we also talked about podcast too.

So if you guys are listening hey welcome. Yeah, it was good time to listeners We're now up to six team All right, well that's for our recent investigations. I'm aware. Oh, yeah, 40 minutes yet.

No good. Let's go all right Let's talk lizzy board and I think recent investigations don't count as part of the main topic. So we're probably right along Lizzy Borden this is kind of interesting because I know that Tim recommended as a topic and I honestly didn't know a whole lot about Lizzy Borden other than people died with axes and it's kind of fascinating case is actually a little bit shorter than I thought it was gonna be Excuse me and this kind of more isn't the true realm of true crime versus a paranormal But it's still kind of interesting. Yeah, we've done this before we did with Jack the Ripper, which we're totally off on by the way Oh, yeah, so update on Jack the Ripper if you guys listen to our episode apparently now we got glossed over this Just a little bit castle mentioned that there was a suspect named Aaron Kermanci.

I believe Kuzminski Kuzminski Kuzminski his name was Aaron apparently there was a on the fourth victim near her They were a shawl that they found covered in blood and apparently also semen I know in the past the castle just kind of mentioned that they tried some DNA DNA testing and kind of weeded him out as one of Possible suspects. Apparently they've done some more DNA testing and matched his DNA Those on the shawl to a living relative of his and according to the findings They have now said for sure that this Aaron Kuzminski was the actual Jack the Ripper and he was just like a Polish barber That was like 21 I believe a barber like Sweeney Todd. Yeah I think so the fine thing is like you castle also mentioned like serial killers usually just don't stop They usually die or they're put in a sand and silum or whatever and funny enough He actually went to an asylum there near the white chapel area Which is why the burger stopped do you think Aaron the Ripper has the same kind of zing to it like Jack does no Aaron the Ripper Aaron the Ripper that's probably why he wrote Jack the Ripper when he wrote that letter from hell He wrote a letter from hell. He's addressed it from hell.

You send a letter you put your return address He's mother in laws house sure. Yeah Lizzy Borden took an axe and gave her mother 40 wax when she saw what she had done. She gave her father 41 Fat not I've did little research on this subject because I wanted to give Mike a chance to shine But that's not true. It was only like 28 Well as actually not even that many it was a I can tell you think he's exact number because I did a crap ton of research and I took notes That doesn't matter Mike why don't you start us off?

Abby was found with 19 blows. Yes, and Andrew's found with 11 blows. So really blows blows. So it's 30 So let's start a little bit and give a little backstory on Lizzy Borden So these murders occurred in Massachusetts These mortise these mortise fall over Massachusetts just over the right order and the address was two thirty second street in Falls River Now what's interesting about Falls River is it was kind of a It was a town of kind of two divide you had kind of the poor section of town and you had the folks He lived on the hill if you lived on the hill you actually had money If you didn't live on the hill you're considered kind of a lower class now Lizzy's father Andrew Borden Came from the Borden family, which was actually a rather wealthy family, but Andrew was kind of on the poor side of the Borden family But Andrew still did very well for himself.

He actually started as an undertaker Became a banker had a furniture shop, but he kind of wanted to live closer to his businesses So he chose to live down on the poor side of town instead of up on the hill where his cousins and some of the other more Well-to-do people lived Andrew had two daughters Emma Borden and Lizzy There's a third daughter who actually died when she was I think she was what two I think two years old talk You don't have to just give me a talk over him. That's rude. That's what we do here at the supernatural hour They had they had a third daughter named Alice Alice Esther who died when she was two she was the middle daughter Right and shortly after Lizzy was born. I think she was about four or five years old Her mother died and her father remarried Abby Winters And so Abby Winters became the stepmom now what was kind of interesting is Emma was ten years older than Lizzy and Emma kind of took over the mother role For Lizzy kind of acted as a surrogate mother and both Lizzy and Emma both were not huge fans of Abby Abby kind of went out of her way to try and mother and befriend and otherwise kind of integrate herself into the family But Emma and Lizzy were just kind of rotten kids rotten kids.

Yeah, you know kind of an example I don't know if this is factual or not but Abby would do something like bring in some ribbons and say Hey Lizzy I got some ribbons in your hair and Emma would basically say I'm one who does the ribbons take the ribbons and they just kind of gave Abby the figurative middle finger and Just kind of excluded her and was kind of awful to her Well Emma had actually made a vow on her mom's deathbed when Sarah Moore sport and died Emma was 12 and Abby was actually Lizzy was actually two okay, and she was ten years older So when she was 12 she swore to her mom on her deathbed that she would take care of baby Lizzy And so she resented Abby for stepping into this role. She's like I'm mom and Yeah, so she was exactly with the ribbons stuff. She did that all the time and yeah that they would just they were kind of rude Just yeah, Abby was trying to damn just and they were just kind of shut her down on every occasion Now both Lizzy and Emma at the time of the incident I believe Emma was 32 and Lizzy was 22 is that right Mike? I believe Lizzy was actually 33 at the time or 32 at the time was Lizzy 32 So Emma would have been older than that so she didn't have 42 then because I know there's a 10-year age difference And they're both considered spinsters neither of them were married which is kind unusual their age in that time frame And part of the reason why is because they live down in the kind of the poor section of the city And so they weren't really part of the in crowd they didn't get to go to the the catilians and the that sort of thing that They had the fancy name so they were kind of higher born, but they weren't total Poverty stricken either like a lot of the factory workers that live down that level where so they're kind of stuck in the middle well Andrew had a lot of money, but he was kind of miserly Not the jump to our heads, but when he died.

I think his estate was worth I think five million dollars in today's money You know that figure I didn't get but just give you an idea of what his what living with Andrew Borden's house was like first of all It's a very long skinny narrow house, okay, so it's 20 feet wide if you think about how wide 20 feet wide is basically the width of my living room There were no hallways in the house So in order to go through the house from one room to the other to go back you had to go through Different bedrooms to get to the next bedroom and so there was very little privacy. There was very little Well, you got me you didn't say that was very little privacy. What was interesting along with that? I apologize for cutting off and by the way, I did double check my notes is actually he was worth 10 million dollars By the standard when this all went down, so he had money.

He was just a miser. He was just a cheapskate Talk about the house A lot of other people had running water and things of that nature The middle class at this time would have running water and they were still using like buckets from the whale right? I mean just really cheapen out if you would Then they had most middle-class houses at Klaus middle-class houses in the 1890s would have running water rather than a pump They would have electricity or gas lights instead of kerosene lamps. Oh, they were using kerosene lamps.

Yeah, so and then To take a hot bath meant they had to boil the water on the stove and haul it upstairs and go dump it in the bath That whereas all you just the middle-class folks had those luxuries in their homes And so he wasn't very very tight with his money now the later houses You're kind of getting to do is kind of interesting because there's basically two staircases in the south There's a front staircase and a back staircase now if you went up the front staircase There was kind of a guest bedroom and then you walk through the guest bedroom to get to other bedrooms Which is where Lizzie and Emma basically resided now there's a door between I believe Lizzie's bedroom and Andrew their father's bedroom But that door was knilled shut to get to Andrews bedroom You actually had to go up the back staircase and you could get to his bedroom and the maid's bedroom and some other rooms up in that second story So basically Emma and Lizzie can have their own Apartment if you will kind of in the front part of the house upstairs where the back part was kind of Andrews So if Lizzie and Emma were having a Collars at their house they basically take them up to that guest room use that as our own private sitting room Which kind of plays into the murders a little bit later in our story now kind of along with Andrew being a tight-wad Lizzie kind of resented that she wanted to be part of the in crowd she wanted to go to the party She wasn't getting married because she wasn't meeting young men Basically she was kind of upset their father is cheap Lizzie actually had a habit of shoplifting She would frequently go to the local Department store if you will and she would shoplift stuff and the store can had a policy that if they noticed her stealing something The their clerks would actually write down what she stole and they would just later bill Andrew kind of on the backside So problem child. Yeah, she had some issues. Well, just a few Not to get too far. I'll save this.

I was gonna mention something but I'll save it for later in in a story I think I might be thrown too far ahead about the other stuff So go ahead run with it Mike. What do you got? So just a little bit about some about why Abby was so looked down upon by the girls She was also a spinster herself when they were married her mom had died about five years Or about three years after their mom had died Abby came from genteel poverty That basically means that she had their money their family at one point had the money But they just slowly had lost bad investments things and so they had the fancy stuff But it was really worn down so they had a big house up on the hill just everything was broken It's like the toilet handle that just I'll just jiggle it you know, but go ahead I was gonna say and that marriage it was kind of a marriage of convenience I mean basically like you said she was a spinster and Andrew was kind of a single guy who needed a wife He needed a wife he needed a housekeeper and someone to keep his girls in line while he was at work And so it's kind of like a hey, I'm single you're single. Why don't we not be single together?

So that's kind of how that whole marriage most marriages start out. I think right not these days But no so what you were saying as far as Lizzy you know with her her aspiring to be wealthy She had all the wealthy cousins she'd go spend time with them But always presented having to come back down to the slums where she lived it wasn't really the slums But right and he even sent her on a trip with all of her wealthy cousins in 1890 Really and her sense of the one a tour of actually was one that it was all the Europe with her wealthy cousins just to try to appease her But it only left her more frustrated. Yeah. Yeah, well she came back and had to also have kerosene lamps again and hold on buckets from the well ungrateful little Yeah, at one point in their house They actually had a break in and I can't really amount of money I think it's like $50 which in those days was a considerable amount You could buy a car and a new computer VCR and some other things with $50 back in the 1890s That's that's not true But basically $50 one quite a ways $50 and I think some jewelry and after that Andrew started locking all the doors in the house I'll be extra your doors and he kept the key right on the mantle in the living room And it was kind of a almost like a message of I know what you did and it kind of everybody kind of thought it was Lizzy Who did it that she claimed that she'd when the police can't investigate that she claimed she took them on a big Tour of the house and everything and then showed them a screen door that had supposedly been pried open with a really small nail Which wasn't a story that they really bought but yeah Lizzy was the one who was thought to have thought to have taken the money and again given her propensity for shoplifting and Some of her other issues it kind of clearly points to Lizzy So what happened as far as the actual murders go?

Do you want to cover your history before the words just look about Lizzy She because she didn't have anything to do with her time. She spent a lot of time at church She was part of the Christian women's temperance union Which is a kind of a women's church group there in Fall River She also taught Sunday school regularly and so she was very well known and very active in the church there and which would also prove As kind of one of those defense weapons in court of just kind of her character Well, I thought it was really interesting as far as church service goes Apparently the church they went to they owned a pew. I didn't know you could own a pew in a church But apparently their family had purchased their own pew. It's still that way.

It's that way anyway I've been kicked out of pew the church before My family always had the same pew that we used for years So did I was growing up? It was weird when I went back to church for the first time when I couldn't find my mom because she wasn't right there in the Rayback row with my the rest of my family had a actually look for him There was a couple families my work when I was a kid who you always knew that they were gonna sit in a certain pew and it was yeah Anyway, that's anything they're gonna go on for that for that right till that's that anyway, um So the murders happened August 4th of 1892 a few days prior to that The entire family started getting kind of sick now back in these days food poisoning was kind of a relatively common occurrence You know they don't have refrigeration like we do nowadays It would be common to you know cook a pot roast for Sunday dinner and just kind of leave it on the stove and be chewing on it for the next two or three days You know they had a big general electric fridge with an ice maker and stuff to keep things right the cool master 5000 Right, and so food poisoning was kind of a big deal in those days and so they the family kind of got started getting sick Andrew got sick Abby got sick Even Lizzy and Emma got sick if I remember properly Now after a couple days of this Abby went to the doctor who lived across the street was kind of concerned wondering Maybe they've been given some poison bread or something along those lines and they were kind of worried because Andrew was a businessman But he was kind of imagine a businessman in 1892 a little Less scrupulous maybe then a businessman nowadays a lot less regulations and basically just kind of hate the renters do Friday And if it's not paid, please look at the president of the bank and so people have to come to him for loans So think of it think of like a not quite as mean Ebenezer Scrooge type of a guy right if you're thinking back to so he had people that owed money And you can't just wave off everybody's fees as much as you want They wouldn't rent to do it. You got to deal with it In fact, there was actually an argument that happened a couple of days before the murder that Lizzy had mentioned that where there was this this young man that come and he couldn't pay the rent and Andrew Wanted to wave his you know his fees or his rent whatever it was But he had to be firm and and said no and that the young man left pretty upset and it would remind me I kind of headed myself just a little bit. I'm gonna jump to just a few days before they got sick now Was it a cousin or an uncle who came into his uncle?

It was uncle John Morse. He was a Sarah Morse So their mother who had passed away it was her older brother John. Yeah, the day before everybody got sick John Came into town and Lizzy overheard John talking with Andrew about the will and it was believed that in part of that conversation Andrew had mentioned possibly cutting both Lizzy and Emma out of the will and so that was kind of Head of all this and then another thing that kind of was in Emma is apparently a relative of Abby Winters Approached Andrew and Abby basically talked him into buying her house So she didn't get evicted and so he paid money to buy her this house to live in and so Lizzy and Emma were both kind of Besides themselves upset that he had bought Their step-ant a house and they didn't have anything so he ended up selling them a house for Don't mind Tim he's just eating over the corner founder. He got a new microphone and it picks up every time I'm realizing that it picks up a lot more than the other one did so Alec is gonna lose her mind Listen to you.

Oh, I look at Lisa. I look at Anyway, so they were pretty upset that basically their dad bought this property for a Step-ant so they kind of pitched a fit and he ended up buying them a house for like a dollar He sold them a dollar or sold them a house for a dollar and then they ended up selling it back to him for like Was it five or ten grand? I didn't see how much they sold it back to him But it was their grandfather's out there his dad's house They he'd pretty much given them and then all of the rent income because they still with with him all of the rent income that came with it also was theirs as well and They the money didn't make up for the their you know being but hurt and I was like five or ten grand But they sold it back so he not only be buy a house or gift them a house But they had to buy it back from them just because they were ungrateful So he sold it to him for a dollar and then they sold it back to him for basically five five thousand Yeah, so he made a great investment Andrew. Yeah, that's a five thousand percent profit margin there Things you do for your kids and especially your kids are little shit So back to everybody getting sick again So they got sick and Annie kind of confided the doctor that she's worried that maybe because of the bad business Dilda Andrew had that maybe they're being poisoned about the same time Lizzie talked to one of her friends Jeff her name They're handy written down Mike her best friend.

Yeah, best friend was Alice. I live next door Did you do? Anyway, about 11 pages of notes here, so yeah, I've got a couple of notes to it there my phone and I'm busy talking So I can't look him up I've got Wikipedia and most of the stuff isn't in there See me like it lots of research Anyway, she confided in this friend that she was worried that someone was gonna was trying to kill them and she was nervous and afraid to go outside And in hindsight, I was kind of wondering if maybe that was her trying to kind of create an alibi for what was about to happen the following day Now the following day was kind of a hot day. It was August 4th, 1892 and Andrew leffert for work He was still feeling kind of sick, but he was kind of getting over the sickness a little bit went to work And basically said he'd be back at noon for his lunch, which was normal for him now They had to mate her name was Bridget Sullivan and Abby actually asked Bridget to clean the windows indoors and out and Abby basically said she was gonna go upstairs and Basically clean the guest room meanwhile Lizzie was downstairs ironing handkerchiefs in the main sitting room in the what he called that the parlor We don't do parlors these days.

She's much she was in the parlor ironing handkerchiefs. We also use handkerchiefs because they're gross We now use Kleenex. I know people say he's handkerchiefs I keep one in my suit coat, which I can't wear it because I'm too fat for it But I still have an air chip big man in a little coat I mean, I always thought I was a great idea like blow your nose and then stick it in your pocket Stick it in your pocket Usually I'm giving it to somebody's like we're the super like funerals and stuff and it's usually when someone's crying at a grape Side and it's like here's something here's something here And then I usually know it usually happens when someone cries and I usually get it back and then blow their nose Yeah, well, I don't usually get it back. That's good So this sets the scene for where we're at So by 11 o'clock Andrew comes home He's feeling ill he decides to call an early day arrives back at the house tries to come in the door But the door is locked.

He kind of jiggling a lot trying to get in and bridge it Sullivan the maid Here's the door rattle and goes over to Andrew in and she thinks she hears Lizzie upstairs giggling for a brief moment She lets Andrew into the house and Lizzie comes and helps him lay down on the couch And he decides to take a nap right about 15 minutes later at 11 10 a.m. 11 10 a.m Lizzie calls Bridget over and Basically they find Andrew on the couch from murder His eyes cut in half his nose is pretty much cut off his face and basically his entire face and skull is caved in Lying on the couch So really had gone upstairs to go take a nap to go rest in her room She'd been cleaning the windows she'd gone upstairs after he'd come in to go take a nap and he laid down about it was about 20 minutes to 11 and then 11 10 about a half an hour later is when Lizzie yelled to Bridget come quick somebody's murdered father, right? Keep in mind now this goes back to the way the house is designed There's front stairs and back stairs that hopefully through different parts of upstairs that are technically not connected because they're divided by the door This no shut so the top floors divided into two parts with two completely different staircases that lead to them So Bridget comes down they find Andrew and he's had how many blows to the face Do we say 11? Yeah, 11 blows to the faces I was cut in half his nose is pretty much severed his skull is basically caved in his face was pretty much unrecognizable.

It was pulp it was pulp She stands bridged across the street to go to dr. Bowen to go fetch him and the police and not yet actually That's what was weird what I thought was weird so she said to be the doctor and then by the time the doctor gets over there that There was already several other neighbors who were already on scene and what he gets there He finds that the blood is actually still oozy. Yeah, it's still dripping and it's still dripping and things that hadn't even congealed anything And so they're wondering well where's you know an at Lizzie had said that she didn't know where Abby was But she figured that she'd gone to go visit some she said she received a note and that she'd gone to go Go care for somebody they went upstairs and at the top of the stairs They looked into that guest room Abby had actually gone up to go clean that guest room where where uncle John was that spent the night he was off visiting family for the day and They looked in and saw her body in there on the floor there Right in this restaurant the bad face down and she had been hitting the back of the head 19 blows and then I had in the back of her skull was caved in so it was actually found Abby that someone got the idea Maybe we should call the police and that's when they went notified the police now in the police got there. Hey, we've got a murder Yeah, let's poke around.

Oh, there's a second People are living with this dead body when oh my gosh Just like hey we should these days you call my one right away So I can tell you guys real quick a little bit of personal experience I have been to more than a few scenes with that bodies both fresh and not so fresh that blood Coagulates pretty quickly amazingly quickly. So the fact that Andrew had blood still dripping it. That's like chop chop chop. Hey, come here Again, it doesn't take a whole lot of time for that blood to start to congeal Yeah, they determined though based on the congealed state of Abby's blood versus the dripping state of Andrew's blood But Abby died probably an hour and a half prior to Andrew dying so I've even dead for a while probably even before Andrew came home Dr.

Bowen even suggested that that Andrew died just minutes before Lizzy found it so Now when they got there the doctor gave Lizzy a shot of morphine basically to calm her nerves. Everybody know though the Lizzy seemed unnaturally calm. She wasn't beside herself. She wasn't freaked out.

She was very calm Which is kind of unusual and they brought that up after the fact So at this point they involved the police and then they start to kind of try and figure out how this happened who did this Some of the suspects that were kind of thought of were the uncle John Morse. They thought maybe he'd done it But they were able to kind of do some research and figure out that he had a pretty airtight ally He was out with cousins for lunch. He was out visiting family and they all corroborated that he was there with them And he didn't come back till you know quite well after the murder study Some people thought it might be Emma because she was not there when they got there But they're also able to figure out that she was actually out of town with somebody And so they're able to corroborate her alibi as well Um, some of the later theories were that it was Bridget Sullivan the maid Um, one of the initial theories had been that basically Bridget had was upset that she had to go wash windows on a hot day And so she murdered everybody, uh, which doesn't seem like really wise job security There were also some rumors that he that he may have been a little bit more handsy with her than what she liked as well Which would be another motive, but they ended up ruling her out as an as because Why would somebody who lives in the house kill her employers? Throw herself out of a job and out of a residence.

It's just a really bad motive. Yeah, it was a terrible one If it's uh Crime of passion. You don't really think about that kind of stuff when you're killing somebody true You know, it's interesting you say that because let's go back to the actual murder scene And you've got 11 blows to the face and 19 blows to the back of a The head, um, usually and they said that basically both the first blow on either party would have been enough to kill him Um, usually when you've got a crime scene like that where someone stabbed somebody multiple times Especially that many or wax them with a hatchet that many times there's usually some pretty intense rage involved um, and so You know looking at lizzy, you know, she hated abby winters, you know 19 waxed the back of the head of the hatchet That's a lot of rage, uh, you know frustrations are bad for being a cheapskate. There's a lot of rage there Well, they with that will they also lizzy, you know, was that they're being cut out and all this money is going to abby You know his wife.

Well, there's that's a lot of anger there too, right because she's not my mother Angry dad for talking about cutting them out angry abby because she's the intruder in the family Um, eventually they start kind of within two days the mayor basically told lizzy said hey, you're the suspect Um, and they start kind of an inquest into the murders Um, the one thing that to know really well though too is so if they if everybody's arriving just shortly after the murder Had had lizzy done it. Why would she not be covered with blood? I mean, I've seen csi on tv so I know it's real, um, but no, usually when there's when there's things like this There's a lot of blood spatter, right? What I mean even watching like she was like Dexter where that's what he does He's a blood splatter analysis if you're crushing someone's skull with it with a hatchet You know you hit someone you pull in that hatchet out lots of bloods coming like he said 19 times to the back of the head exactly She have blood fine everywhere.

It's gonna be on you Or guaranteed There's going to be some blood so we're gonna so we'll talk about some of the theories with this as well. Um, so they did this inquest and a judge Um actually questioned lizzy and he questioned lizzy without any legal counsel, which is kind of important later Um before we get to the inquest they did search the house the police on their investigation did search the house They actually while he was there doing that they also did the autopsies the medical examiner came That was interesting. And did the autopsies right there in the house Where the family never actually moved out. They didn't go stay in a hotel.

They stayed there Somebody will get me a snake map out of the kitchen. Like oh, he's downstairs cutting up my dad and examining things I mean, it's just morbid but I think it's a little different. No, they did and then the police They did search the house, but at that time it was really not conceivable that they would go through a woman's personal belongings Very inappropriate. It was you know, that's her private stuff and so they really didn't go through lizzy's things To you know, but they did go down the basement.

They did find Um in the box that was hidden behind the chimney. There was a box that had three hatchets One of them had a handle that had recently looked like it had been broken And then the handle blade or not the handle blade the axe blade the hatch of blade the metal part was Ach and so they surmised that maybe that hatchet had been washed to clear off blood and then tried to try to dry it with the ash And kind of make it look old and dirty and used so they did find out in the business. I didn't need to catch off Are you okay before the inquest with the judge Josiah? When we get to the criminal aspect of this to we're gonna come back to that hatch of blade with ash Um, that was kind of a fascinating part of the criminal trial.

I don't know if you got into that at all Mike, but we'll talk about that here in a minute Um So judge Josiah, what's his name? Um, I will find it as soon as I find out this last name They did the inquest with lizzy and questioned her and the questioner without legal counsel which was kind of detrimental later to the criminal case Um But basically lizzy story didn't make sense. She basically she said she'd gone out to the garage Um and to look for some fishing stuff and they went out to the police had gone out to the garage and they didn't find anything in the dust They uh in fact there's cobblows where lizzy said she'd gone to look for fishing gear Um, her story just kind of fell apart during the inquest. I just she was here that she was there.

She just contradicted herself Uh considerably as they were talking about how that all happened Um They At that point, I ended up finding the criminal charges and arrested her and took her to a jail actually outside the area because they didn't have a woman's jail They're in a false city where this all occurred at And so they started doing the investigation on the criminal trial and as they started doing the investigation Uh local pharmacist recognized lizzy and said that she'd been in the day before the murders asking for prisic acid Now prisic acid is actually a better known as cyanide Uh she tried to buy 10 cents worth of cyanide and she claimed it was to basically clean a seal skin coat what she had Uh the pharmacist however basically said that cyanide and it's really dangerous and I can't give that to you about prescription Uh so he refused to sell it to her That had apparently happened the day before the murders. Correct. Um again the day after the murders Um What that that story ran in one of the papers that was the fall river globe that that story ran with the pharmacist And then on the other paper the fall river herald emma and ad lizzy had posted a $5,000 reward anyone who could secure the arrest and conviction of the killer So it's kind of two different papers competing against each other Um one kind of running one of the story one kind of more sympathetic with their side I thought that was interesting Well, they ended up going to a criminal trial and though one thing that was interesting with the criminal trials They took the hatch of blade and they actually zoomed both uh, and drew and ambi-winters bodies They removed the heads uh boiled the flesh off of them, uh And took the skulls into court as evidence and tried to fit the hatch of blade, uh into the wounds on the skull basically Um now what was interesting in the criminal trial is that trial was almost slanted very heavily in lizzy's favor Um, and there's a reason why Yeah, it was slanted really heavily in her favor If I give you the instructions to judge gave the jury was kind of basically more or less instructed than to find her not guilty Um, so it was it was judge josiah blazedale was the judge who heard it and said all right i've heard enough of her rambling stories I'm gonna arrest her her best friend next door was allis from us all that trial allis from so um, but they Lizzy had the dream team so you're if you're remember if you're old enough for remember the 90s the 1990s We have the oj simpson trial right yeah johnny cockroon and you had the which by the way I have had a sit down with one of the forensic investigators on that case and oj did not kill her but was totally involved in the cover up I was gonna talk about that but anyway continue. Yeah, so um, they heard lawyers So she had two of the best lawyers one of them was her father's attorney.

The other one was a former governor of the state Um, we're not just seeing my dream here No, I just lost it. Anyway, he was the former governor of the state and he was a great Well-known judge he actually was rumored to have paid him $25,000 for his services which was a huge amount of money at the time and um on the other side Was uh, new but it was a district attorney and then there was the neighboring county's district attorney who had never had tried a murder case And so you have two kind of less prominent lawyers who are prosecuting and then she had it was former governor George d Robinson Um, so kind of consider him the johnny cockroon So $25,000 worth of money and it was actually, you know proved himself be worth every penny Essentially what happened is the trial judge threw out the cyanide evidence saying that there was too much time between that and the actual murders And they didn't die for hours. So they didn't have poisoning so they couldn't use that evidence that she had tried to buy cyanide the day before Um, they also threw out her uh ski wampas testimony that they pulled apart in the inquest saying that she was under the effect of morphine And her story was uh, inadmissible because she didn't have legal counsel during she was never given Miranda rights like what we know is our Miranda I thought I don't know if they were called that at that point. No, they didn't exist in those days But they still they basically said she didn't have legal counsel.

Yeah, she was just they were just asking her what happened and so it really wasn't Admissible that's where I was talking about that that morphine sulfate earlier today. Now the jury Uh took 10 minutes to decide that lizzy was not guilty But they were worried that taking 10 minutes to say she's not guilty would look really bad So they waited for an hour to come out and I give the verdict Uh, but they had made that decision in 10 minutes part of what uh may have swayed them as well is Um governor robinson had appointed one of these judges There was a three three judges on the panel though and one of them He had actually appointed and given him his job seven years before and he was the one that ended up Um Giving the instructions for the jurors, but some of the things that happened She was very well coached by her her attorneys. She would come in and she was wear black every day a very elegant black dress Neat little hat that would always be angled and she would cover her face without her flowers or a little fan and then every time that That they would talk about any of the gruesome aspects of things she would kind of hide her face with the fan There was a moment where the uh prosecutor took a dress and laid it out on the On the table there and had knocked over the bag that had the skulls in it and the skulls came rolling out of the table And she fainted straight away. Now.

This was all this was all the tactic Not I mean it may have been legit, but there was a tactic with it that her lawyers were doing if you remember from the oj thing Put this glove on and you watch him show this video the glove and he's not fit You must be tries every way possible to make that glove look like it's not going to go on his hand I mean, I was looking I was looking at that actually yesterday and it was like yeah Now what another piece of it we forgot to talk about is a day or two after the murders allison resol the neighbor Actually came over to the house and caught Lizzy burning a dress in the in the stove and uh When asked what she was doing basically allison kind of called her on said hey That looks really bad if you didn't supposedly kill your Your dad and your stepmom in fact even the stepmom thing during the inquest or like well your mother and she was very very adamant very Directed that that is not her mother that is her stepmother and my mother died when I was a child Yeah, uh, anyway, she basically said hey that looks really bad that you're bringing dressed like two days after this murder Uh, and she basically kind of said oh had a bunch of paint on it and it was stained so I was destroying it and then emollator backed up That's right. Oh, yeah, she addressed with a lot of paint on it. Um, there's also a seamstress and a house painter who corroborated that too Right, but it kind of looks an off like destroying evidence Uh, and nothing says that you don't put on the paint cover dress to go do the murders and then take it off Now before we get into after the acquittal, let's talk about some of the theories on why she was not covered in blood Well, it also says here about the hatchet Uh, it was they said that the person had removed the handle because it was possible because it was covered in blood And then one officer said he actually found the handle couple days later Um, but I guess for whatever reason they didn't he didn't actually show it to anybody. Um, just make a cool souvenir Yeah, but it says another officer contradicted that so I think an officer just was like wanted the conviction So he's like yeah, I found the handle but didn't actually have it.

I guess yeah in reality This whole case from a long first standpoint was just botched on every level I mean reddit is 1892, but they still screwed it up about every possible conceivable way They were kind of the keystone cops on the case I mean I've been in their defense in fall river at that time. It was a kind of a nicer town They only had to deal with drunks prostitutes and the occasional robbery so having a murder case where they've got to collect evidence And meanwhile, you know, they get there and there's people all over the house and the people that live there are still living in the house And so all the evidence just kind of well the punch scenes completely crumpled The punishment for murder in those days too is hanging and it's not like it is today where you get 40 years of appeals before they might get around to do stuff about it I mean those days it's like guilty they take you out to the nearest tree and away you go And I think part of the reason for the acquittal was I think everybody was pretty queasy on basically Executing a woman. Well none of them thought she could do it I mean this was a crime that at that point, you know poisoning somebody would be a lady like a crime But this was very violent and women just were not possible that a woman could do this Well, and the last execution they'd had a massachusetts of a woman had been not too terribly long before this But the woman basically said she was pregnant after the execution they figured out she was pregnant So I think they're pretty squeamish about executing a woman I think they were really not wanting to go down that road But some of their theories as far as the Well her not being covered in blood was that she basically Either used Andrews overcoat which would have covered her To kill him and then basically just wash her hands and face after discovering him Also with Abby there's talk that either an apron that she could have worn or a dress They did get covered in blood that she could basically throw another dress over the top of that dress because again the police aren't gonna search a woman You know 1894 the police aren't gonna be patting her down and checking to see if she has another dress another dress she's currently got no dresses Or poofy and don't give any ideas nowadays though. Yeah, you won't get away with it now And so there's a lot of uh Of good reasons why she might not have blood all over one was even that she might have committed the the murder in the nude and uh in fact You mentioned that so when we first talked about this topic my wife and I actually watched the recent movie lizzy Borden with Chloe svegane and christen Stewart and that's what they did in that one that they was it was presented that they were actually lovers Bridget and lizzy and that they both committed the crimes but they did it in the nude so that they could easily just Wash themselves off and then put a clean dress back on and and that actually was kind of one of the theories too that uh It was later floated that basically abby had caught uh lizzy and Bridget in a compromising state basically a Whole homosexual love affair would have been hugely hugely hugely frowned upon in 1800 if not flat out illegal right and uh That lizzy had freaked out murdered abby and then when their dad came home he freaked out and they murdered him But that was later kind of decided that probably didn't happen.

There were lots of rumors There was also a rumor that lizzy was having an affair with dr. Bowen across the street there were rumors that um that Lizzy had had a boyfriend who andrew didn't approve of and so she had him kill abby and then hide in the closet for what's it about? Our about an hour and a half and then come down and kill andrew But yeah, he never if that was the case that he would have been sort of mentioned he had a boyfriend Right, it was also Accusations or rumors that there may have been incest there and that that's why lizzy could have acted in such a way with such anger because you know If she'd been things done to her or see if she had had seen her in a position such as that that that's why there was that anger and why you know I was cut in half and and I don't know I've never seen I've not dealt with with crimes like that Castle could probably testify to that kind of the level of violence that happens when something like that happens But what's interesting too and just kind of get to some other theories now got two contradicting things that were said about Lizzy one was that she actually had tortured and killed animals as a child even an account that basically sounded brought over like some baby chicks And I go baby chicks and she said let's kill them and they basically killed them so that they she could stage a funeral That she tortured kittens and birds and was basically a stereotypical Pull my little Killer killer kid right um but also there's accounts later in life that she was like a huge animal lover and donated a bunch of money to Animal charities and whether that was a smoke screen for her other behavior or whether somebody just made up the And there was a little torture stuff. I don't know there was also rumors that Andrew had also had she kept pigeons out there in the barn And that Andrew had killed her pigeons with the hatchet as well that hatchet that they'd found that they did the forensic testing on it and determined that there Was blood and there was hair on it, but that none of it was human Right now so she was acquitted and most people like you or me if we'd been Arrested for murder and basically put on trial and acquitted we probably Find somewhere else to live we you know if the community was like Really happy with us.

We would pick up and go somewhere else You know we kind of talked about the keystone cops aspect of this whole case and you know from the outside looking in you know 2019 looking at this case from 1894. It's pretty clearly that he did this. I mean, it's the only thing that makes sense There's motive. There's opportunity I'm It's pretty hard not to say she did it.

I don't know it could have been the uncle because it does say the cops said That he had an absurdly perfect and over detailed alibi for the death of but they checked it out and he was able to remember uh train car numbers that he took and that's where the overly detailed part comes in right but they're able to verify his location maybe he's just intelligent Unlike myself. I would already know it's certainly perfect norley detailed clearly she did it now I agree it's I mean everything points straight to her especially like oh, I'm burning address two days later Yeah, because I got on wet paint. I need some sign I had to clean my coat Oh, I can't get sign that's the thing so hatchet all these things are circumstantial evidence though And if there's there's sometimes circumstantial evidence doesn't mean that you did it But there's enough circumstance I think it makes a pretty compelling case and by today's standards I think they would have proven beyond if she didn't do it. She got hosed Yeah, she did because she spent 10 months in prison or in jail had this piece this Horrible trial to go through with you know dragging her name through the blood through the mud and through the blood And then and then what castles get into she comes back she lives back in her own house where she Live where the murders happened.

She lives there for two months after the the murder right when the community told the ostracizer at that point I mean they wouldn't talk to her they ignored her in fact We talked about the pew that they own she showed up to church in the family pew and every single pew surrounding Empty like no one even sit by her shit to sit by herself at church They'd all rallied around her for her trial saying oh she could have done it. She teaches Sunday school She's vouching for a character, but then after she was kind of like yeah, I don't want her to die But I'm not gonna invite her to my birthday party either right and so her sister ended up taking the 10 million dollars Inheritance that they got from Andrew's death and they ended up buying a house upon the hill or the snow hill and they called the mansion maple Croft as what they called it in fact she started going by Elizabeth She called herself maple craft quite a bit instead of lizzy board of Elizabeth of maple craft Herner sister lived there for a number of years until basically lizzy became friends with an actor or actress her name was a O'Neill was her first name. Nancy O'Neill Nancy O'Neill now back in the 1800s 1890s like nowadays we look at actors and think they're awesome and we want to be They don't like them. We want to vote for their political candidates.

We think they're amazing. That's what they think we do but Back in the 1890s if you're an actor you might as well have the scabies because they were about socially on par with prostitutes Right. They were not popular. They were not they were frowned upon it was cool to go to the theater But you just didn't bring the gross people to go to the stage at home with you kind of like carnies It's fun to go on the rides, but you wouldn't want to invite a carne to your house if we have any carne listeners I'm sorry, but it's true.

You're not coming to my house small small hands smell like So anyway, I don't did you ever see the 2014 movie with Christina Ricci on lizzy board? I did not try to do either. So I mean it was a great movie excellent movie the music didn't kind of fit the movie though It was like yeah, so the the movie The movie is a movie that's not lady Hawk. It's like a little boy here You know set in the 1890s, but they had like modern like 2000s music It was just weird But at the end of the movie after the trial and everything they suggest and they actually have Christina Ricci who plays lizzy board in the movie Basically confessed to her sister that she committed the murders Now careful it's interesting because you're kind of getting to her exactly where I'm getting at so the house her and her sister and she had these raging parties with these 18 actors Carne equivalents and her sister basically kind of said that's it I'm out her sister moved out They never spoke again now some one of the theories is that lizzy confessed her sister and her sister got mad and Moved out the other theory is is that basically she's having these wild crazy parties with these actors and And that's kind of it was also rumored that she had a passionate love affair with Nancy Neal as well And that Emma couldn't stand that either so she moves to New Hampshire But there was something that I one of the documentaries that I watched mentioned that there was a nurse So it lizzy had had or Elizabeth at the time after she changed her name Which also was something you didn't do in that day It was very odd and very looked down upon that you changed your name unless you were married for her something So for the change your name Elizabeth was also very socially awkward She didn't get invited all those neighbors parties that she wanted to but she had a nurse that she had a gallbladder out And the nurse that said that she this was years after the fact after she had died claimed that she had told her that she had committed The murders that she had gotten off but so there was supposedly somebody and this woman who was her nurse was fairly reputable had no reason You know not found to be crazy or anything like that, but hmm.

Yeah, I got that gallbladder surgery Lizzy Borden died at the age of 67 shortly thereafter from complications from that surgery and Kind of after the fact and interestingly enough her sister Emma Died nine days later in 19. They're also that happened in 1927 so that's kind of the story Lizzy Borden. I know it's not paranormal. I was just kind of interested in story to touch on I hope it was entertaining for y'all You know, I'd be curious to know what everybody's thoughts are on this, you know if you have an opinion go ahead and shine in on our Facebook page at Advanced paranormal We'd like to hear what you have to say you don't interesting enough Stanford University Their law students did a mock trial not too long ago over this and she was also acquitted again Really because they couldn't yeah because they couldn't there was just wasn't enough evidence collected to convict her Yeah, they're the search and everything else were kind of botched in this case.

Um, all right, so moving on from Lizzy Borden I've got a really good paranormal news story that you do probably one of the best ones I think we've had on the show Should do so the week first. Yes, we are gonna do some of the first okay, so this week stone. I'm gonna touch a little bit on Moonstone, but in particular, it's going to be black moonstone and just so the fellas here at the table. That's kind of you That's last week stone Black moonstone that's not black moonstone this one here.

This is this is my black moonstone again I know I promised and I needed to start getting pictures up on Facebook and the website for these Mike described the black moonstone the black moonstone This particular stone is just slightly smaller than mine, but the similar shape it is round It's about the size of a 50 cent piece But about three or four times as thick it is black with kind of gray and sometimes white Marbling marbling through it, right? It's one of my favorite stones of mine and I actually went and got hit got after Tim Show me his the first time I'm like I have that I went got my own yeah Mike everyone wants to be like Tim comes over shows me as their stones and I get stoned and I get stoned and I go By my show Mike's my stones and then he wants to get his own he must be handled them so Everything that talks about on black moonstone Basically says it has all the same properties as regular moonstone and then its additional properties as well So I'm gonna kind of go over moonstone and then we'll get into what black man What sets separates black moonstone apart from other moonstones? So the minstone crystal meaning is associated with the inner goddess. It's a symbol of fertility and sensuality The life giving feminine figure is empowerment and visualization that gives us a gift of increased intuition the perfect Perscription for cleansing the mind of negative emotions holding you back With the moonstone crystal by your side you're able to channel its healing powers with daily meditation a practice that helps to clear the mind and center the spirit For a deep and healing therapeutic session with moonstone Retreat into a sacred healing space free of clutter and distractions You want to meditate on your intuition for the new moon and the next monthly phase of goals aspirations and dreams you have for your life Repeat this ritual on a full moon and so you can experience the full potential of your soul under the glow of the moonlight Now the moonstone crystal reminds us to go with the flow which doesn't always mesh perfectly with the man the demands of modern life resonating the mysterious and enchanting moonscape the moonstone crystal is like a painted landscape of moonlight on a clear night sky It's distinctive sheen reflects a rainbow of pearly hues like blue yellow silver gray and white Which symbolizes the moon and its connection to flexuating moods and the ever-flowing cycles of life The moonstone helps to open up the heart chakra It also allows us to be more receptive and in touch with our inner feelings like waves crashing on the beach in a study push and study Push and pull of the tides get back into your own natural rhythm and discover hidden treasures deep within the self Moonstone is a creativity charm and it rocks at bringing out your muse because it reminds you of the miracle of life and our vast Universal vast universe of infinite possibilities now That's all kinds of some of the properties and whatnot of just moonstone in general now What sets black moonstone apart from just regular moonstone and other moonstones?

That is black. That is black. All right. Well, no, so it's actually a stone of deep feminine energies It enhances intuition and inner knowing a black moonstone helps one to connect with their feelings and emotions on a very profound level That way mike's crying now.

Yep. Oh, wait, I'm just sensitive now It opens blockages and allows for guided healing for past emotional trauma Black man stone is a stone for feeling and understanding of via intuition and emotional thoughts rather than via intellectual reasoning now again When I talked about how I have my channeling experience and my spirit guy told me I need to carry three stones I currently am black moonstone and chevron amethyst and I was to talk to talk about them on the show in that order So we're on a black moonstone reason why I got my black moonstone is because I know you've been there when I've had readings done with mediums that have never met before and it's on some of our previous podcast you can hear them tell me that I need to Focus more on my intuition and not think things through with my intellectual side as much. Can you need to man up less? Yes, pretty much.

I mean it's a paranormal Expo episode from 2017 I believe we had I can't remember her name for the life of me But she was one of the ones that told me that I focus more on my intellectual side not enough on my intuition I don't go with my gut feeling enough. So this is black moon stone is one of those stones It helps you do that helps you focus more on your intuition It helps you just kind of follow your gut feeling So to speak instead of just doing like what I do and I know Mike does as well And this is why it's a great stone for the two of us is a kind of step away from that logical like intellectual side of things And just going with you gut feeling just making those decisions that just feel right Excellent I like my black moon stone that folks is a black moon stone and I just took some pictures about to him was talking Then we're gonna post these on the face. We're gonna do it because I took pictures I've got a whole list of stones. I need a post all right, so you guys ready for some we're pretty normal news Okay technically this is a paranormal that we're gonna run with it Well, this is a natural hour doesn't always have to be a panel.

That's why we're talking about murders Kate coral, Florida, you know when they're Florida involved. It's gonna be always this one I demand a recount a man named bill Thatcher was arrested last week for pretending to be a ghost at St. Joseph's cemetery There was a funeral going on And bill was an influence of methadethamines, so he actually believed in that moment. He was a ghost Mr.

Thatcher can't see walked up to people taking the funeral kept asking can you see me? Hey? Hey? Can you see me?

I'm a ghost. Yo this totally sounds like something that I would do Zero come on my nose. Hey Can you see me? I need to borrow your ghost costume from Halloween.

I need to borrow my sheet Yeah, I need to borrow your sheet with holes in it And he lets us say everybody the funeral could see mr. Thatcher And he was nothing more than a distraction to the 55 people who are attending the funeral their loved one I hope he was wearing clothes. He was wearing a sheet. Oh, he's just up as a ghost I got when we caught up to mr.

Thatcher He was pretty irate and he was in complete disbelief of what he had done while under the influence of meth Meth as a hell of a drug. He kept saying when we tried to questioning him. Was he Rick James there? But he didn't make an apology source of the family the funeral.

I am so sorry for hella parting around you guys I didn't realize that there are so many effing squares. I suppose meth and cemeteries don't mend well You know I want to go high. That's the first place I think I was let's go to cemetery Because there's no one ever there ever if you're gonna use the sheet for a costume for a ghost costume I'll still tell you now don't use a twin size. It doesn't fit right You got to go queen or if you're little taller or cooking and don't go with the floral print.

Yeah Well if you're you know fancy ghost I've never seen one of those yet Needless to say his uh his apology was empty. He was charged with a few crimes public intoxication possession of an arctic To sort of conduct things just imagine him like apologizing. I'm sorry a party too hard next year But who calls people squares nowadays? That's not a 1990.

You know here's my favorite part of the whole story as a guy's walk up to people If you're going to see me and his cure People squares as a 90. I think he was the best part of the story No, I'm gonna point out the things that other people probably thinking about who calls someone squares really I find the whole thing fascinating That's why I want to borrow mike's Halloween costume. Do you want should we post a picture that on the Facebook? You put that on there.

No mike is a no We went to Moab we went to go treating Moab and I put that on I took a picture of our team and it was me standing in the corner of the room Like you think my room's haunted because there's a picture of a ghost over in the corner We'll post that on Facebook too. That's like the ghost column tape. Anyway, that is you know I have the other one You know I'm saving that for next week. Okay, that's a good one.

I promise I'm excited here. Yeah, we will we will do that next week because we did this a week late sorry for spring break happening But we because we love you we're gonna do another episode next week Spring break almost forgot my story. Oh, I had a moment Vegas. Oh, hey, hold on What happened to Vegas stays in Vegas?

No, I happen to Vegas gets tested here You're my man. This is too awesome sustain Vegas. So castle and Mrs. Castle.

We're walking down the strip in Vegas Okay, this is already starting out wrong does it still itch? Anyone who's been to Vegas has seen the billboard cars that drive up and down the strip Did you have to buy this special shampoo and go home? I know so the billboard is girls direct to you It's a pink billboard with scantily clad woman and a phone number Seamos there's like several of them driving up and down the strip all night as we're driving down the strip We see one of those cars coming down the strip and we see an adult male with a six-year-old male child with him And he goes son that's gonna teach you something come here and points it The girls direct to you billboard truck and the press of the crowd move me along so I didn't get to hear what the lesson was I don't know what lesson you teach a six-year-old at the girls direct you billboard son I'm gonna teach you lesson. This is where I met your mom That right there's the sin of the flesh and the devil's gonna get you these girls are icky and I'll give you kuddies I want to I want to hope that he's parenting and he's teaching that that's wrong for six-year-olds to do I think he heard Candy's story about tender in Vegas and he was showing him how to hook up with people Just try to figure out what kind of wholesome lesson you can teach a six-year-old with the girls direct to you sign drivers Why are you taking a six-year with the Vegas?

Oh, we took our kid to Vegas all the time. It's six point now that have negative We don't point those it's not like you're walking out of the street be like hey I'm a there's a certain hour when you close it off and go home about nine o'clock three months We could start getting very adult time to take the kids home But anyway, well we will call that an episode for tonight and maybe that is how you're dead Not your mom. We don't know have a good night peace out, but it's classy You've been listening to the supernatural hour at advanced paranormal calm