Low-Key Secondhand Anxiety

In this episode of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, former police chiefs Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir use a chaotic, uncomfortable round of golf to explore a bigger question: how do you know when it’s time to leave—whether in a situation, a relationship, or a leadership role? Through candid storytelling and reflection, they unpack the tendency to “stay too long,” often driven by fear, identity, or a desire to be kind, and examine how that choice can impact both personal well-being and others. The conversation expands into leadership, highlighting the responsibility to build a strong bench, avoid clinging to power, and recognize when staying serves self over mission. Ultimately, they challenge listeners to be honest with themselves, noting that true leadership is measured not by how long you stay, but by what happens after you leave.