Mailbag 2.0 (Ep. 139)

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Now! Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm editoratheregore.com, and joining me in the studio, he's got a surprise album dropping at midnight.

It's Andy Greewell! Mr. Reop, let's do this! Let's go, Kendrick!

Andy, we were probably talking about Kendrick Lamar's new album on Monday, I would hope. Is that really coming tonight? It's supposed to be coming out tonight, but today, do you know that from your industry sources? I don't know about that.

I know it from checking the internet. You'll have to show me how to do that. Yeah, you just gotta plug the phone right into the back of the computer. We are doing a mailbag pod today.

We just got done, I guess we can tease it, right? We just got done recording a very exciting pod with a guest. Yeah, we won't say the guest. We'll just say that one of the major shows coming back this month, we will have an exclusive ish podcast with the creator of that show after the second episode airs.

Is that vague enough? That's vague enough. I think people can guess. I mean, it's not like this person has departed or anything.

Right. It's not like he's lost. No. No, he's here.

Andy today is a mailbag episode, so we're gonna burn through some questions from our listeners. Thank you to everybody who's sending questions to the At The Watch pod Twitter account. Zach Mack was nice enough to compile these into different categories. Did you make a spreadsheet?

Yeah, well, Zach wanted to, you know, the main questions that people were asking. These are repeat questions. They want to talk about the expanse and the missing, either of which we've seen. I watched the missing one by the way.

It's very good. And I've watched a few episodes of the expanse. Where's my Chequi Carrio hive? They out there?

You remember that dude? No. You don't remember that dude? The Russian actor, but like that guy.

Yeah, he's the best thing in the missing. Yeah, he's gonna be in the Russia game movie. Oh, he had a big role to play. And then people want to talk about S town, but mostly people also want to ask about what's the next book in the double down book after we had so much love for Zoo station.

Oh, really like that. That was awesome. We were debating this. I think that we will, I think we're landing on a book, Jeffrey Vandermeer's.

Jeff Vandermeer's Annihilation. Now, Annihilation is a little bit of a sci-fi, I guess you could say, book, and we could put a link to it. It is being made into a film. It's already, I think it's been shot.

It's gonna be released this year with Natalie Portman, Tessa Thompson, Tessa Thompson, it's directed by Alex Garland who made X Machina. So we're very excited for the movie. The movie looks gorgeous. And I would say actually, you know, it is, it's not, it shouldn't be, it would be like a very good book.

If you like lost, if you like, like sci-fi, that is in the real world, but it's a little bit tweaked. I think you would really like this. Yeah, it's a book that is inspired by Vandermeer's, I think he lives in Florida. And it's basically like, it's very, very into the idea of the natural world-running muck.

So there are a lot of details of a very fun guy in Moss and lichen and trees. It's very, it's a very creepy book. It sneaks up on you. It's the first book in the Southern Reach trilogy.

We are not requiring you to read books to her books three because I think Chris and I both had mixed feelings about them. Yeah, but Natalie should itself is pretty great. It reminds me, you know, everyone's in a while, you come across like a page-turner like this. Like the ruins was like this for me where you're just like, gosh, look at it.

Just an incredible, you know. The passage. Yeah, the passage was like this. So yeah.

I think it'd also be really fun for us. It's a podcast family to read this book, talked about it, and then just be super hyped for the movie. Yeah. Because I do think it's a 360 degree deal.

I also don't think that this is dinging the book in any way to say that I think the movie has the potential to be even better. Just because of the type of story it is and Alex Garland who is himself and now who is making it. I'm pretty psyched. So I think that'll be a fun book to discuss.

Let's get into these questions. You've got mail. Okay, first question comes from Malcolm. And I think this is an interesting one because Malcolm asks, I'm, what's not asking.

He's actually saying he's telling. I'm over comic books as IP. What's next? Rapskits?

Fakeshows movies within other shows and movies? Radio or podcasts? First of all, I remain patiently waiting for Methadman's torture skit on the first Wu Tang album to become at least a 10 part mini series, preferably on a pay cable channel. Yeah, it's like a one house kind of thing.

I think that could be incredible. Yeah, look, I mean, it's interesting. I'll say this before we even get into the other possibilities. I too am exhausted by comic book IP.

Can I see something? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're gonna follow me.

I didn't even finish my thought. Have you identified why that is? Well, that's exactly what I was getting at. I think it's because they've calcified into the same story.

I think that adaptations of anything can be anything, but we've now come to understand comic book adaptations as portentions origin stories, you know, as building to a inevitable world rattling climax between a good guy and a bad guy in a very certain type of almost Christopher Nolany type of experience, you know, and I think that on TV, they've taken different forms and obviously I'm a partisan of a legion, but even if you look at like the Marvel Netflix shows have their own which is that all of them, okay, I'm not getting high on this because everyone says it's terrible, but the three other shows all had enormously promising aspects to them, Daredevil, like Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. I love it aspects of all three of them. I was unable to finish most of them because again, they're just stuck in this rigid format. This is not 13 episodes of television.

So I think if one of these projects has been announced and I actually kind of hopeful about Kevin Beagle who made this a comment listed. It's a really funny show, really talented writer is making a show for Freeform, which is what ABC Family's to be called the New Warriors and the main character is the Marvel character Squirrel Girl. Was this Squirrel Girl going to be like a whole thing? Well, he's a thing now in the comic books and so...

Say it halfway in a place, Squirrel Girl? No, Anna Kendrick was like raising her hand like the emoji to say like, let me play Squirrel Girl Girl. I'm just saying like, okay, that is going to be something different and so there's possibility there. But the larger question, what's next?

First answer is IRL, man. The biggest unexploited IP is recent history, right? All of a stone would disagree with you. He's been mining those fields for quite some time, those killing fields.

But yeah, I mean like we have a few of the American crime story. I mean grabbing things from the headlines in the spirit of law and order and turning them into prestige has been the thing. But what else is out there? Well, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens when...

What? He wants to talk about podcasts. I know, I'm doing the podcast, Zach. He's saying I'm blackmail.

Who is that? Zach? That was Zach, Mac, a producer? That's producers, you can't see him?

Save this part. That was the CEO of Panoply Media. I thought that was like some guy running in. Do your job.

I think it'll be interesting to see what will happen if any of the prestige podcasts that are out there like the narrative podcasts, whether it's S Town, whether it's what was one of the Catherine Keir and Oscar I was going homecoming. Oh, I'm coming. Is he actually a doctor now? Yeah, that was a bidding war and it went to Sam and his company.

Oh, congratulations to him. You know, the other one that I think is flying under the radar is just a pretty rich piece of IP as the Andy Greenwall podcast. Yeah, that's... The music is great.

I think the music is great by the Scottish band churches. I think the conversation that Andy had with Sam Rockwell, Colin Farrell, like these were like bangers. They could really become eight, ten, fifteen episodes of miniseries. Yeah, good luck with that.

Sure, I'm developing it. But to your point, honestly, I don't think there's going to be a good movie about the Russia scandal. You know what I mean? I don't think there's going to be a good movie about the 2016 election.

The thing that would be interesting to watch, to make a good adaptation of something that jumps mediums, you have to understand and respect the abilities of each medium as a distinct entity. And that's why the Watchmen movie was such a failure because it slavishly tried to recreate what the comic book did and that doesn't work on the screen, right? And so it'll be interesting to see as these podcasts are developed into TV shows or movies, if there's an understanding of why they work as podcasts, right? Like what made it more compelling for it to be audio only?

What do you gain by adding visuals? And I don't know, I'd like to thank the people like Sam and the other people involved in this stuff and we'll be paying attention to that. But I think that's a tricky thing to see as we enter into that world. The bottom line to the mountains question is all IP is fair game.

Yeah, comics are westerns, just get used to them. They're going to be around for a while. I'm not going to be able to actually watch away in terms of their popularity, but they are a reality. Noah asks, with Atlanta Fargo, Americans, people versus OJ has FX stolen the prestige television belt from HBO.

And if not, what would it take? First of all, Noah Hall, you can just text me that question. You don't need to tweet it. So the question is why is FX dope?

I think it has FX kind of taken the belt from HBO specifically what he's asking. But I would actually, I can take this one actually. I would say that show for show night for night and maybe even month for month. I think FX has maybe a stronger lineup than what HBO has.

But what HBO has at FX has never quite been able to find is me and Andy. No, it's been the show that stops time. It stops the clock. It's the show that everybody wants to say we're watching the Sunday night.

It is, you know, this is what everybody's talking about on Monday morning. Everybody's waiting on the edge of their seat for the comeback the next week, the next season. And FX has never found its Game of Thrones or its Walking Dead. I think even with OJ, which had a ton of momentum, that was still something we knew it was going to end.

You know what I mean? And I don't think that FX has developed with a quittle. You got away with it. I know, but like they haven't figured out a central show.

And in a lot of ways, FX and HBO's fortunes right now, this is just my read on it, reflect how television has changed. Because HBO actually has several tent pull shows by Big Oly's Game of Thrones. And then, you know, when it was on, True Detective was actually quite a big deal. And they have like five of those shows, three to five of those shows a year.

Right? And they put on like what? 12 shows a year? Not that many.

FX has a bunch of doubles and triples. Yes. And I think that they are starting to fill up the scoreboard with doubles and triples. And as those shows keep going on and growing and getting better and adding, add and add, cumulatively, that library is going to almost seem as impressive as HBO's.

I completely agree with that read. I think you've done a very good job of that. I'm saying there's no question that FX would like to have a Walking Dead or anyone who owns it. Did they go for Walking Dead?

They pass on. They pass on. But I think it is actually a very smart strategy to go the other way, to go for doubles and triples, to have the critical darlings, to have the risk takers, to attract the talent and give them the freedom to do things like Atlanta. It's funny that it's come full circle, but HBO's greatest strength, even as it went through a rocky year or two, it goes all the way back to its original ad slogan, which is not TVHBO.

HBO has the biggest bullhorn and the biggest footprint. And one of the smartest things that the decision they made was never to expand. They experimented a little bit with Monday nights. I think they put it on Monday nights and then immediately gave up on that plan.

It was a never-expanded on Sundays. They said this is the one night of the week that's going to drive conversation and this is where we are. And more than the shows, I think that other networks wish they had that megaphone. And sometimes the shows that are given that megaphone don't deserve it, like vinyl and are dealt with.

But I think Big Little Eyes in many ways is a page from the FX Playbook to take a piece of not necessarily celebrated IP, give it to talented people, bring in a lot of talented people, and have a billion-in-a-series and just let it run. HBO HBO had it up with the biggest names. And as we said on Monday, we talked about it through the clutter. So I think that's interesting to note.

But those two networks plus Netflix are the biggest dogs at the moment. Kyle wants to know if you were separately making a Mount Rushmore of TV comedies and dramas, separate Mount Rushmore. We have four Mount Rushmore's, I guess. That's a lot of Mount Rushmore's.

What shows would you choose? Land is cheap. So four shows, I guess, per damn. Now, I'm going to add a little bit of a layer of content that Kyle's talking about.

I'm not prepared for this. The Presidents on Mount Rushmore aren't just like popular or cool. I mean, all the President is popular and cool. I love cool Presidents.

I love cool Presidents. But they're also formative. I think that they had a lot to do with making the country what it is for better enforcement. So what would you say putting you on the spot?

That's tough. Drama-wise, because I know comedy-wise, it's kind of harder because comedy you just say like Seinfeld Friends Cosby. You know, you could just kind of like, the comedies are there. I think it would be interesting to talk about comedy recently, but we could maybe table that.

But for dramas, I'm always curious because everybody's got their personal favorites. Yes. But what do you think are the formative ones? Well, I think that's a very interesting thing.

I think that, particularly in regards to drama, it's a very tricky question because I think, you know, people will push back on one or two, but I think that for the era of television that we are most involved in, that we discuss, it's a pretty easy Mount Rushmore, right? It's the Sopranos, the wire, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. But what you're talking about is formative. And so we have to, that being Mount Rushmore, it depends on a kind of like cultural revolution idea of like 2019, 1990, and year zero of television.

You have to think about the shows that made those shows. And you could make a case for NYPD Blue or Hill Street Blues or Twin Peaks, which we've been talking about yet, or certainly or ER. So, or some blending of them, you know? I think that those four shows are probably the best serialized dramas that television has ever made.

Or you could put the say Twin Peaks next vials could go in there too, because arguably those shows have had a bigger impact on what's getting made now in terms of like the best of what we're doing, you know, like when you watch it leftovers and when you watch, you know, genre storytelling, serialized storytelling, fan engagement with storytelling. On the comedy side, I wonder, like, is it easier or harder to do it? Like, what would, cheers, cheers Seinfeld? You know, and then I, I could make an argument that something like 30 Rock was just joke for joke, maybe the funniest show in history television, but shouldn't, shouldn't mash beyond there?

Should friends be on there? I'm gonna say no. That's just personal. I would personally, I mean, like, for me personally I would make an argument in terms of its inventiveness for how I met your mother.

Interesting. But also that's a different conversation to do. That may be formative for what we see going forward. And then you get into telling and then you get into living color and then you get into it.

Oh, I like, as a veteran of making nonsense lists when I was a TV critic, I would just arbitrarily say, sketch shows, I'm not gonna consider animated shows, I'm not gonna consider, which is ridiculous because the Simpsons should probably be on it. I mean, I think the Simpsons was the number one, was the number one show in TV history in Matt Sites, and now it's seven-walls. This sounds like it's almost like an episode unto itself. It's interesting.

I feel like I'm gonna look to our producers, Zach. Is he still nodding or is he wanting us to do a Mount Rushmore podcast? He's like, how come you guys haven't talked about all the game-like properties? He just wants me to make sound effects like he's doing a radio lab.

We'll table this, we'll come back to it at some time. Great question. You know, and a lot of these questions, I don't know the names here, but there was one question from one person that I was a little disturbed to get from. It's like, you know, you don't mind if your adversaries are enemies or nemesises, but to see Shae Serrano's name on this list was a little disappointing.

Oh, gosh. And it really, the question sort of matches the character of the person. Oh, the man. Why will you all never talk about Sons of Anarchy?

I'm tired of the anti-jax teller bias you all have. He should be celebrated. You know, I met Shae for the first time at the Ringer Holiday Party, and we had a very pleasant conversation. That was a complete bullshit.

Based on what I thought was a facade of mutual respect. Yeah. And the way I was able to do that was that I did not mention my antipathy for basic cable, biker gang dramas, because I knew that that would have been a very polite event. It's holiday season.

It's holiday season. Holiday season before gathered by the Simmons family pool. Sure. I didn't want anyone splashing down.

So can we take the high road here? I mean, I know it's hard with the guy. I would just say this to Shae that it is about to be Charlie Huddam season out in this bitch. That's true.

Charlie Huddam is so good in Law City of Z. He's just coming out. Yeah. And he looks very convincing as King Arthur and continues to just, his doctor keeps going up by missing out on the 50 Shades of Grey train.

Really strong point on that. So I think it's like everything's coming up on him. So anyway, do you think the most influential person of the century so far is the is Judd Apatow's casting director? Yes.

Because she cast Freaks and Keaks and undeclared. Yeah. And I remember thinking like as the Freaks and Keaks cast were a sendant being like too bad to say magic and strike with undeclared. You know, I like that show a lot.

But your boy Huddam, he just needed to percolate. If you've got a little bit of money burning a hole in your khakis, put a little money on Huddam or the next bond. Whoa. Just put it out there.

You just keep these little truth bombs. Look, in all seriousness, I couldn't have a son's of anarchy. I just didn't do it. And it's actually perfect for me because that was one of the shows that was well into its run when he was in the movie.

He was like, right when he's spin off is starting. So I basically live in the uncanny valley between yeah between Kurt Sutter projects. Andrew wants to know if really Scott claims he has five more alien sequels possible. Do you think an alien franchise would be better served as a television show?

Here's the thing, Andrew, you're absolutely right. What? I am a big alien fan. So like I love that franchise.

I find Merritt in every one of the movies. Do you find Merritt? Like Kate and Rooney? Neither one of them has been in the alien franchise.

Because if Kate Maritt was in one, I would see that. They're what that actress is to be in these films anyway. So I'm sure that they are coming. Heather Sternhams crack.

I was looking to see a little bit of Covenant when we went down to South by Southwest. So I saw like 20 minutes of it. Who are you? You're full of all these thoughts and observations.

You see movies? Here's the thing. As you can tell from the trailer, Covenant is about a group of people who don't have any idea that there is something like an alien out there who arrive at a planet to do ostensibly one thing and then obviously get consumed by literally and figuratively. That thing is bone, right?

Isn't it like Temptation Island, the movie with an alien? Yeah. Isn't it about couples who go to a planet? Yeah, I think they're going to colonize.

Right. It's dope. Great idea. I realize while watching it, well it's incredibly it's incredible to look at and I can't wait to read that.

That's because delve deeper into like some of the Prometheus mythology that can set up in the previous film, that I, the things that are cool to me about the alien franchise are actually not the thrills and the scares. Those are nice. Like I love the fact that they're there. I find alien very scary.

The action scenes and aliens are amazing. There's some stuff in Alien Three that is all this stuff is true. But to me, it was always like, I was always curious about like waylin' you tiny corporation and what, and Prometheus really hints at this. Like where these things come from and who made them and what they're you want the Paul risers spin off.

I do. I want to know what Burke is up. Oh ho ho ho, he burned wind up in a vest on that ship. Yeah.

Like you just like the business bro. So I just really would love to see, I mean, in the same way, I think that we often will say like, oh, that could be a TV show, you could just play around with it. I think that there is a lot more going on in the Alien franchise than just going down a dark hall and getting your head ripped off. Yeah, I mean, there is the deep space nine version of this universe where you're like, okay, we're gonna talk about like.

Also, he's got his 80. I don't know how he's gonna make five more alien movies. No, he is Guy Pierce in Paris, right? Like that's gonna be his move.

He's got a medical fast-bender shooting hoops in his studio trying to just figure stuff out for him. No, there's the deep space nine version of it which like you set up a show about the mining colony at the edge of the universe that runs into something. I think that I hear you and I agree with you, but I also think that that runs the risk of stripping out the compelling thing about the thing. Right.

The mining colony, the Charles, to quote the great Charles Dutton, the prison colony of rapists of women is the speech that runs in my head because they brand that ad. You guys don't know what it was like having watched ads and the ad for Alien 3, which Charles Dutton is like, I mean, just women. Anyway, like the story of how they all got there is kind of interesting, but they were made more interesting by the fact that a chest cracking alien was about to go mess things up. So I'm anti, not everything has to be TV show.

I want to get through a couple more of these. Do you think we will ever see a pay-per-view model emerge for some traditional content like a word show, sporting events or television shows? What was the last one, the last? Or traditional television show?

A pay-per-view? I mean, we are reaching kind of reaching that point as the bundle gets broken up and we get more into all the cart over the top viewing. I mean, CBS is really trying to do this. There is a good wife spinoff starring.

I mean, I scribe to see you. Do you? That's all access because I get to a very pleasant survivor experience to watch and I get good fight. But like that is a pretty big bet.

They are spending network money on a TV show. Yes, it has money. Yeah, so I know. And they're going to have a Star Trek show and a majority of Americans and a majority of CBS viewers who, by the way, are Americans don't know this thing exists.

But they are playing a long game that people will pay to see the one or two things they want to see. And they have it. It's also like the library and it's like a viewing experience that is relatively pleasant to go through just like you can just watch these episodes. To the other question, right now we're in a place where a word shows and sporting events are the killer app that keep people from cutting their chords.

And but should we enter a more uncertain future where everyone is cutting chords and playing? These are coming up. Well, where people start buying all the cart packages and bundles, then you will start seeing the ability to not have basic TV but be able to pay $20.99 to watch Super Bowlte. I think what's going to happen is that there's going to be this increasingly moving away from paying the one fee you're cable provider and getting 300 channels of DVR.

You're going to keep going further and further away to where you're subscribing to like five to 10, 15 different packages to get this. And then there will be a unification where then someone is going to figure out a way to be like, pay one fee and get Netflix and get Amazon and get this. Who's going to bundle the anti-bonders? I don't know.

Also, we are still enjoying reaping the benefits of the trouble we check on. We are still reaping the benefits of this ridiculous hypothetical arms race where every tiny network at once survives solely by cable carriage fees is trying to build a library to become one of the last packages standing. So that's why AMC networks is putting shows on IFC, like Rockmire, which is apparently good, or Sundance channel, which is another channel in their portfolio. It happened later coming back in top of the lake.

If we reach a point where it's like, now people are really only going to pay for three of these, five of these. And guess what? AMC, you have the Walking Dead, but you might not be one of them. Is AMC going to be like, OK, well, we are now going to partner with FX.

And we're going to become the true titan of this. We are not anywhere near that. That might be an interesting thing to hypothesize about. We'll be back to answering one of your questions.

Let's just take a quick break from our sponsors. This episode is sponsored in part by Delta Airlines and their Delta Studio. You go up and air, you're flying, you just want to catch up on stuff. Sometimes it's a little bit dicey up there, though.

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See for yourself and go to Sonos.com to learn more. That's S-O-N-O-S.com. You've got mail. OK, Andy, we're back.

We're going to answer a couple more questions here. Jen wants to know, I have to ask your thoughts about the possibility of a writer strike, which I think you should handle. Because I'm freaked out. Yeah.

So can you give me a 30 second primer on what's going on? Yes. Why don't you guys just like cite that it's peak TV? Every few years, obviously, there's a renegotiation between the various guilds, the directors guild, the producers guild, screen actors guild, with the conglomerate representing the studios who signed onto the agreement.

And those set things like, in terms of writer's guild, things like the studios compensation towards the writer's pension plans and health plans. And also what you get paid, basically, there's a floor for what you can get paid as a story editor on a network sitcom or as a supervising producer on a premium cable drama. That's all negotiated and worked out. And also other things like residual rights and blah, blah, blah.

At the moment, the current deal with the writers expires May 1. And the writer's beef, and I will include myself in this, because that's a member of the guild now, is basically that record profits right now coming from TV. It's a TVN movie, right? $51 billion worth of profits going to the studios.

And the arguments of the writers are not getting their fair share of that, particularly because it's a short up health plan, but also because other things have affected writer's salaries. Like, yes, it's peak TV. But apparently, the average salary of a working TV writer, for example, has gone down. Because now there are shorter seasons, whichever it says is great creatively.

That means you are locked into 10 episodes worth of pay and you're paid by the episode. And you could be in production on those 10 episodes for longer than 10 weeks. You're not productive in them for half of the year. Then you may need to get another job or another job.

And some people might say, how great? You can work on two or three shows a year. Maybe, and you could make more money. But some of these shows lock you in.

You can't work on another show. You work in triaxially obligated to work on those 10 episodes of that one. So the opportunity to make more money seems to be limited. So you want to debate that.

Anyway, all this is to say, it is a crazy, crazy time for content. And some people worry that it's a bubble. And writers want to make sure they're getting their fair share of it because certainly at the moment, people are profing off of it. Personally, I'm super freaked out because now I remember the guild.

And I feel like I just got here. This is fun. And I think there's real concern on all people's parts that were there to be another major work stoppage and shows would go off the air and not come back for a while. That it would really only hurt the writers and also the directors and also the traditional television networks.

Because this is my opinion now. The one entity, the entities that are really going to probably OK with a strike are the Netflixes of the world. The Amazon's of the world. Because they're like, we have the library.

Look what we have. Exactly. Like, I can catch up with billions now. I can finally catch up with billions.

But that's really true. Well, it would be noticeable that CBS doesn't have new shows on the fall when they usually do. Netflix can just be like, well, we have all the old shows. Plus, all the shows we put on when you weren't paying attention.

So I think in terms of maintaining the status quo of content and keeping people working, I very much hope there's not a work stoppage. But I'm freaked out. That's a very good answer. Last sort of larger question.

And then we'll get into some quick response things. In light of the endings that we've recently gone through or about to have happen, which is rectified girls and soon the leftovers, what are some of your favorite series endings? Mine's really the answer. You say it.

Frightly. I was going to say it. Most satisfying series ending I can think of. It's really hard to think of one better than that.

I mean, I think now that we live in an era where comedies have to end too, and a lot is expected of them, I think 30 Rock was pretty perfect. I think Parks and Recreation was pretty perfect. But I would say that one of the brilliant things that Breaking Bad did was basically end twice, one for each kind of fan. They're the people who like the way Granite State, I think, was called End of the Second Last episode.

And that was the episode where Walt is in hiding, New Hampshire, the whole episode. And that's sort of the dark ending. And then Emily Nussbaum from New York had a great theory where she wanted to show the end of the second last episode and consider the final episode with a lot of its fan servicing to be a dream, like Walt's dying dream. But I love the way it did both.

It's such an interesting question in today's day and age. For any, it's purely satisfying on an emotional level and on a plot level, and it was just a thrill. There's a whole other category to be discussed. Maybe we'll talk about this in a future time too.

Of shows that ended in ways that I didn't love, but you respect, because that's what the creator was doing. You know, that feeling of like, oh, that's what the show was. And I felt the way about the Mad Men ending, for example. I was kind of out on it.

The more I thought about it, the more I I twisted myself and not so appreciate it. But it's not what I wanted. But then I kind of like that we're in an era where shows that feel like they belong to all of us. And then they're like, no, this was just some dude in Burbank's show, the end of the way he wanted to do.

I'm going to burn through some quick ones here. Favorite Showtime series that ruined itself by staying on the air past its expiration date? Homeland? Yes.

Follow up answer? All of them? Is there a Showtime show that ended in an appropriate fashion? No, I think that billions has become the very best version of billions it is right now.

I don't know what season nine of billions is going to be about. Although it doesn't, billions is not like Homeland in that it doesn't have a ticking bomb inside of it, literally in figures. Yes. That's the second time I've done that today.

But it's like Homeland, actually because of the stakes, has become season seven of 24. And I know some people are fans of the season, but it can't actually sustain what it's doing because every, the main character and the plot are both like in the red. Yeah. Billions is very cool and controlled.

It's like a nice, merino, v-neck sweater. It's like, you know, it's not tearing your skin off. And it has the ability to shift up and shift down. I have not died back into billion season two, like Scrooge McDuck into a vault full of money, like everyone suggesting that I should.

But I have to say this, even from a distance, it strikes me as the perfect Showtime show. And I've said this, you know, I show time makes some very good choices. They make some very questionable choices. But there is a certain type of show that works best considering the way they operate.

Shameless is another one. Shameless is essentially a network show with cable show problems and cable show content. It can run forever because it's a family show. Billions seems to be the perfect show for Showtime, because as you're saying, it has a sense of fun.

It has a sense of play. It's set in a very specific world. It could run forever. And it wouldn't feel wrong, right?

And that in and of itself puts it a little bit out of step with what we've come to think of as prestige dramas that for the most part, like Homeland, ask a big question, and then take in four to six seasons to answer that question. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So there's a whole lot of interesting shows like LA Law and YPD Blue, like the ER, whatever you want. But they have the stakes and the set up of something that really should only go on for 20 episodes. Or the frenzy pace. Yeah, exactly.

So let's bring through a couple more of these. Andy, can I get a letter from American's Island? I don't know from American's Island. Wow, we haven't talked about it.

I got a say, Chris, so this has been a very interesting season. So far, this isn't, I think it has been a slightly weaker season. I've not said this publicly before, but we're only part of the way through it. One of the most daring things about season four of the Americans last year was that it wrapped up to, it didn't it definitely put on ice to major B plots that have sort of sustained the show.

That was wild and surprising and really gratifying to see them do it in such a surprising unexpected way. But it left a gap. They didn't start to fill those holes with new subplots. They didn't bring in new characters.

And again, that's part of the DNA of the Americans that I respect. They're just slowly boring into the heart of the show, which is this family and these specific lead these two characters. And it makes sense as they turn the corner. There are only a few episodes left in this season and shorter season.

Next year before they wrap up, they didn't start to add stuff. But I felt the loss. It felt a little bit lesser without Martha, without Nina on the show this year. But Americans is always playing a long game.

And it's funny, it's almost like the show is now being paced better for the streaming era. Because there have been some things this season, like the dug a hole in the season premiere. Like literally, they were digging a hole for like 15 minutes. I was like, well, just settle in.

There was an episode that ended with them and bed looking at each other and being like, are you sure? I was like, this is like the anti-PTV show. There's literally nothing happening here that's making me one of two next week. Even though I'm a huge fan.

But it sinks in. And so it's rhythmically out of step even more so than it always was. But I remain, I ride, man. I'm on the island.

I love that show. Couple one word answers here. Is Kendrick Lamar, or Lamar elite? I can't imagine why we were asking this question.

Is Kendrick Lamar elite? Yes. Yes. Do you have part in humble where he talks about Ted talk?

Lee C.K. or Dave Chappelle? When? Just what's your first, what's the response though?

Like, yeah, I know there's a lot of caveats to it. There's so many questions within that. I'm gonna go Chappelle. Yeah.

Like, who do I ride for forever? Chappelle. Like, but who's, I was gonna say who stand up to I want to watch more of it. Yeah.

Secretly kind of, I was gonna say C. But secretly Chappelle because you don't know what he's gonna do. Is the sopranos still the goat? Yeah.

Probably. I mean, you could argue other shows, but yeah, sure. I would say no. What is?

Meghan. Interesting. I kind of want to agree with you. I go all over the place where he shows.

I can get very, very hyped on the idea that the wire was the greatest show of all time, and I've often espoused that. But I think a lot about Mad Men. I miss Mad Men a lot. We're gonna end on this question from John, who wants to know if I could spend a little bit more time on the podcast talking about my belief in magic.

I think that's an exception. I think that's a good use of mic time. I went to the magic castle again last week. What?

Yeah. First of all, why are you living the secret light for me? I knew that I'm gonna be closer to you. It was a really good night there.

Like, back up. Do you like, is it like you drop and buy the comedy set? No, it's actually quite complicated to go. Like there used to be a thing where you could like if you went and you paid to get your picture taken there, then you would get a pass for the next time you went.

And that was kind of like, because it's a club. It's not like you don't just buy tickets. Didn't you have a hat or hair sticker? No, but he doesn't have a cocktail named after him.

Yeah, he does. And so we went last week and it was wonderful. And they had like a really good lineup of guys that was doing kind of like close magic at a bar for a while. He was doing a lot of like, card tricks that were pretty good, but he got warmed up and like sort of really doing some wild shit.

Yeah, but there was definitely like two guys at the end where I was just like, magic is real. There was one guy who was just like straight up like, what card are you thinking? Like, what card? Like, think of a card and then he would guess it and you're just like, do you have my Facebook account?

And then there was another where a dude straight up produced three baby chicks out from under cups that had been like empty. And then after that produced like two doves out of straight fucking nowhere. They did bird magic. So like, I'm sure I heard the birds like while I was there like, oh, there's birds somewhere in here.

Like, like, bird hand call like, like, the birds were there. I don't think that he brought them from a different dimension. It is like the magic is the sleight of hand. That's amazing that someone can do that.

Are you a magic head now? Not magic head, but I'm just like, I appreciate the art form. We do have to wrap up a little bit of a short show today. Stand up comedy or magic.

What are you going to on a Friday night? Magic. Really? Yeah.

Magic. I feel like we have to just stand up comedy. What would you do? Yeah, comedy.

I don't know. It's its own kind of magic. They make laughs appear out of thin air. We'll be back on Monday.

We'll probably talk about Kendrick. We'll let you know about some other stuff. Thanks for listening. Thanks for sending in your questions.

Until next time.