This Sunday, courtroom clash. President Trump calls for a federal judge to be impeached after ruling against the administration's deportation efforts. I think at a certain point, you have to start looking at it. What do you do when you have a rogue judge?
I don't care where the judges think. I don't care. The left thinks we're coming. The chief justice pushes back with a rare rebuke as questions grow about what happens if the administration defies a court order.
Is the United States in a constitutional crisis? Yes, and democracy is at risk. My exclusive guest this morning, Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer and Republican Senator John Curtis of Utah. Plus, backlash.
It's important for people to know, you know, when it's time to go. Frustrations boil over inside the Democratic Party as the top Senate Democrat faces pressure to step aside. Are you feeling pressure to step down? And Fast and Furious.
Elon Musk's budget slash efforts are fueling violent protests at Tesla dealerships and igniting more outrage at overtown halls. I support Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson, NBC News White House correspondent Yamiche Alcindor, Adrienne Elrod, former senior adviser to the Harris campaign, and Stephen Hayes, editor of the Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday.
It's Meet the Press from NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welken. Good Sunday morning. President Trump's clash with the courts is growing as legal experts and lawmakers warn the country could be nearing a constitutional crisis.
Last week, a federal judge temporarily blocked the Trump administration's use of an 18th century law known as the Alie Enemies act to deport hundreds of alleged Venezuelan gang members to a prison in El Salvador. The judge ordered the deportation flights to turn around. That didn't happen, but the Trump administration denies defying the court's order. President Trump lashed out, calling for the judge to be impeached.
We have very bad judges, and these are judges that shouldn't be allowed. I think they, I think at a certain point, you have to start looking at what do you do when you have a rogue judge. The judge that we're talking about, he's, you look at his other rulings, I mean, rulings unrelated, but having to do with me, he's a lunatic. Just hours after the president's social media post, Chief Justice John Roberts delivered a rare rebuke writing quote, for more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision.
The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose. NBC News has tracked 37 rulings from federal judges that have at least temporarily blocked actions taken by President Trump. President Trump has insisted he would not defy a court order going forward. I have judges.
We all know that. I never did defy a court order. And you wouldn't win the future. No, you can't do that.
However, we have bad judges. We have very bad judges. But then on Friday, the president left the door open. There's a flight tonight full of abused gang members, and somebody called and said, Mr.
President, I know that this is still being adjudicated, but we can get these guys down to El Salvador right now. Would you say that that's okay? I would say that I'd have the Secretary of State handle it because I'm not really involved in that. But the concept of getting bad people, murderers, rapists, drug dealers, all of the.
These are really some bad people out of our country. I ran on that. I want on that. But they should be asking judges, radical left judges should be saying, why did Biden allow these criminals in our country?
Meanwhile, across the country, elected officials are feeling the heat from voters over Elon Musk's efforts to slash federal government agencies. We have sent you to Congress for decades. We expect you to follow through what we Iowans really want our government to do and not to be have a federal government that is being dismantled by this dragon. Trump and Elon Musk, please stand up for what's right and do your job.
After his election, then President Elect Trump told NBC News, quote, we're not touching Social Security. But now, after several comments from Elon Musk, Social Security is the biggest policy scheme of all time. Some of the president's allies on Wall street, in corporate America and in Congress are questioning whether the billionaire should continue to do so. Many media interviews for sources familiar with the matter tell NBC News Trump allies have called and conveyed to Mr.
Trump and the White House that Musk either has to be taken off air or needs to be more scripted. White House press Secretary Caroline Levitt responded, defending Musk and telling NBC News, any American receiving Social Security benefits will continue to receive them. The sole mission of Doge is to identify waste, fraud and abuse only. The political landscape is also challenging for Democrats who are struggling to find a message to counter President Trump.
Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer is now facing some of that frustration from members of his own party after siding with Republicans on the government funding bill. I myself don't give away Anything for nothing. And I think that's what happened the other day. I was deeply disappointed that Senator Schumer voted with Republicans.
You know you're on bad ground when you get a personal tweet from Donald Trump thanking you for your vote. This isn't just about Republicans either. We need a Democratic Party that fights harder for us, too. Let me just say it's important for people to know, you know, when it's time to, to go.
On Thursday, I spoke with Leader Schumer, author of the new book Anti Semitism in America. A Warning. Senator Schumer, welcome back to MEET THE press. Good morning, Kristen.
Glad to be back. Well, it's wonderful to have you. We are going to talk about your book, Anti Semitism in America. A warning in just a moment.
I do want to start with some news topics. This back and forth between President Trump and the judiciary. This week, the president called to impeach a judge who ruled against him on deportations of alleged Venezuelan gang members. As you know, Supreme Court Justice John Roberts released a rare statement rebuking the idea of using impeachment to sell judicial disagreements.
Some constitutional scholars and fellow Democrats leader Schumer say this is a constitutional crisis. Do you agree? Is the United States in a constitutional crisis? Yes, I do, Kristen.
And democracy is at risk. Look, Donald Trump is a lawless, angry man. He thinks he should be king. He thinks he should do whatever he wants regardless of the law.
And he thinks judges should just listen to him. Now, we have to fight that back in every single way. And we actually have had over 100 cases in the courts where we've had a very good record of success. So Donald Trump in said judges should be impeached.
Let me tell Donald Trump and the American people, Democrats in the Senate will not impeach judges full stop. President Trump said he would not defy a court order. Do you agree? Do you believe him?
I don't trust him. We have to watch him like a hawk. Defying court orders is why our democracy is at risk. And we'll have to do everything to fight back in that regard.
You know, I'm curious to know what that looks like, because in a recent interview, you said Democrats will have to take extraordinary action if President Trump defies the courts leadership. Can you be specific with me? What exactly is extraordinary action? Look, this is an extraordinary moment.
It does require extraordinary action. If he defies the Supreme Court, then we are in uncharted territory that we haven't been in for a very long time. And our entire democracy, this whole beautiful enterprise of democracy that we've had for over 240 years is at risk. And look, I believe that if Donald Trump should defy the courts public, the public will rise up.
We will. Democrats will fight it in every single way. And I believe, you know, autocrats only succeed, Kristen, if the public lets them. But if the public is so, so angry and takes action, and certainly we Democrats will, it will trigger a mass movement from one end of the country to the other, something that we haven't seen in a very long time.
All right. Well, I do want to move to some of the discussions on Capitol Hill because of your decision, Linda Schumer, last week to clear the way to pass a Republican funding bill and avoid a government shutdown. You have faced calls from outside groups, even members of your own party, to step aside as minority leader. When asked about your future to town hall, Senator Michael Bennett said qu it's important for people to know when it's time to go.
Leader Schumer, are you feeling pressure to step down? Look, I'm not stepping down. And let me just say this, Kristen. I knew when I cast my vote against the c, against the government shutdown that it would be there'd be a lot of controversy.
And there was. But let me tell you and your audience why I did it, why I felt was so important. The CR was certainly bad, you know, the continuing resolution. But a shutdown would be 15 or 20 times worse.
Under a shutdown, the executive branch has sole power to determine what is, quote, essential. And they can determine without any court supervision. The courts have ruled it's solely up to the executive what to shut down with Musk and Doge and Trump and this guy vote V O G H T I think is how you spell his name is the head of ombudsman. They would eviscerate the federal government.
On day two, they could say, oh, snap, feeding hungry children, not essential. On day four, mass transit, oil transit to aid to the states, not essential. We're cutting it on day six, Medicaid, we'll cut that by 20, 30, 50, 80%. We'll go after Social Security.
We'll go after the veterans. Their goal is to just eviscerate the federal government so they can give more taxes, no tax cuts to the billionaire, to their billionaire class over there. And so it would be devastating. And here's what makes one more thing.
Here's what makes it worse. There's no offramp who determines how long the shutdown would last, only those evil people at the top of the executive Branch in the Trump administration. And one senator Republican told a Democratic senator colleague of mine, and this guy is close, this Republican senator is close to the Dogemus people. They would keep the government shut down for six months, nine months a year, till everyone was furloughed and gone and quit, and there'd be no way to stop it.
So I thought that would be so devastating to the republic and anger so many people that we actually went forward with the shutdown, which had even the worst consequences than the cr. It was a vote of principle. You know, sometimes when you're a leader, you have to do things to avoid a real danger that might come down the curve. And I did it at a pure conviction as to what a leader should do and what the right thing for America and my party was.
And to that point. Yeah, to that point. I mean, some Democrats are saying they want leadership to show more fight in this moment. They think that's what's required.
You were, of course, instrumental and urgent President Biden drop out of the 2024 race when he himself wasn't convinced. I've had conversations with Democrats leaders who say this moment feels very similar. Are you making the same mistake that President Biden did? No, absolutely not.
I did this out of conviction. And look, in my caucus, we have a disagreement as to, you know, some people voted one way, some people voted the other. But we've all agreed to respect each other because each side saw why the other side felt so strongly about it. And our caucus is united in fighting Donald Trump every step of the way.
Our goal, our plan, which we're united on, is to make Donald Trump the quickest lame duck in modern history by showing how bad his policies are. He represents the oligarchs. As I said, he's hurting average people in every way. And we are, through oversight hearings, we're exposing what he's doing through the courts, which I mentioned, we've had some real succession through legislation and through organizing in all the districts throughout the country.
So that I believe that when. Because the Republicans are already nervous, you know, a lot of them said down whole town hall meetings. I believe by 2026, the Republicans in the House and said will feel like they're rats on a sinking ship because we have so gone after Trump and all the horrible things he's doing. And they will know it, see it, hate it, and act on it.
Let me ask you about something former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Tuesday about your decision. She said, quote, I myself don't give away anything for nothing. And I think that's what happened the other day. Do you acknowledge that Democrats didn't get anything in this fight?
SCHUMER well, what we got at the end of the day is avoiding the horror of a shutdown. There was no leverage points that we could, we could have asked for things. They just would have said no. And because they control, let's not forget, they control the House and Senate, they could force a vote yes or no on the CR without any additions.
Patty Murray tried very hard to get them to add things, and they said no. And because of the rules of the Senate, they could force a vote, yes or no. It was a difficult vote. We talked about it in caucus a lot.
And I voted because I thought, you know, when you're, when you, I said, I say to people, when you're on that political mountain, the higher up you climb, the more fiercely the winds blow. And the only way you stop being blown off the mountain is your internal gyroscope. My internal driver scope said regardless, regardless of the fact that some people would not like it, which I knew that I had to do the right thing for the country and for our party. Just very quickly, leadership, I want to get to your book.
I want to play a moment of protests from last month. Other Democrats protesting Elon Musk's dogecots. Take a look. I am going to stand with you in this fight, and we will win.
We will win. We will win. We will win. What do you say to members of your own party who feel like that type of resistance is not meeting the enormity of this moment, this political fight that's required?
Well, I said no. That was one day in one line. But we are fighting in every way in the courts, in oversight, in legislation, in organizing. And we're united.
Hakeem and I are united. Our caucuses are united in moving forward on that way. And I think if we fight, fight, fight, fight, as I said, we can make Donald Trump the quickest lame duck in recent history. His Republican colleagues will want to abandon him and will do very, very well in the 2026 elections.
All right, let's talk about your book again. Anti Semitism in Americ. I read it. You talk about the rise of anti Semitism here in the United States and globally, particularly after October 7th.
I thought it was very notable that you talk about the fact that on a very personal level, you have received anti Semitic attacks, including online. You even talk about the concern that you have that your grandson could one day find that hateful content. Do you ever personally feel afraid for you and your family leader, Schumer. Well, I don't feel afraid for myself.
You know, I'm from Brooklyn, grew up in a tough neighborhood. What can I tell you? But I just worry about the effect. Because once anti Semitism is not rebutted, history has shown 5,000 years of history that it can metastasize into something even worse.
It hasn't done that yet here, although there's been many terrible things, you know, directly anti Semitic things. A Jewish bakery, A stone is thrown through his window. It's a Zionist bakery. The leader of the Brooklyn Museum, who was Jewish, lives near my house.
Her home, I believe, was smeared in red paint simply because she was Jewish. She had nothing to do with Israel. And I wrote this book. Can I explain a minute why I wrote this, please?
I felt I had to do something. I gave speeches on the floor about anti Semitism, but I had to do more. And here's why. We Jews, Jewish people in America, had what we call the golden Medina, the golden age.
From 1950 to 2000. First, all of America was advancing my family from poor into the middle class and so many others of every different ethnicity. But anti Semitism actually just receded dramatically because the shadow of the Holocaust and the horrors of the Holocaust were hanging over America like a curtain. So Jews who wouldn't be allowed to live in certain neighborhoods were allowed.
So Jews were admitted to different firms and professions which they were discriminated against in. It was a great time. In 2000, it began to change. Whenever this trouble, it begins to change.
We had nine, 11, you had all those conspiracy theories that the Jews knew about it and evacuated the towers. 2008, the financial crisis, the international Jewish conspiracy did it. But it really just jumped up dramatically and horribly after October 7th. So I'm writing this book.
Actually, I felt impelled to do it for five at five, aimed at five audiences in my generation. Why are we going through this? And I wanted to show that me, I'm the highest elected Jewish, highest Jewish elected official in America, is feeling the same kind of worry that they are second to their children. Their children are basically the Jewish people's children are pro Israel, pro pro Jewish, but they don't know the history of how Israel struggled, how the Jewish people struggle.
Third, I'm aiming at Christians of goodwill. They understand anti Semitism is bad, but they sometimes say to themselves, hey, why are they making such a fuss over this? Well, we have 5,000 years of history on our backs. And as I said, it can metastasize.
Third, I aimed at both the hard right and we've seen how viciously anti Semitic they could be. But also with the hard left, I felt as if aggressive. I could talk to them about how some of their anti Israel activity, I might disagree with it, but they're certainly entitled to do it. And it is not anti Semitic has been sliding over into direct anti Semitism and fifth Christian.
I would like all of America to read this. So I hope it will be reading in colleges and high schools to learn, teach people the history, you know, of people under. I think it is 25, 20% believe the Holocaust was a fake and another 50% don't even know about. I believe the best antidote to anti Semitism is education.
And that's what this book does. And I think it does it in a sort of non professorial friendly, not friendly, but, you know, engaging way. Well, it does. And look, you are the highest ranking Jewish elected official ever in the United States, Leader Schumer.
Do you think you will see a Jewish president in your lifetime? I think that's possible. I do. America in general, you know, we're a beautiful people and glass ceilings are broken every day.
So I hope we've seen an African American president. I hope one day we see a woman president. It would be nice to have a Jewish president, too. All right.
The book is Anti Semitism in America Warning. Leah Schumer, thank you so much. It's an important read. Thank you for being here today.
We really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. And when we come back, Republican Senator John Curtis of Utah joins me next. Welcome back.
And joining me now is Republican Senator John Curtis of Utah. Senator Curtis, welcome to Meet the press. It's great to be here with you and in person. It is wonderful to have you here in person.
We really appreciate it. I do want to start off by talking about this back and forth between President Trump and the judiciary. He said the federal judge who disagreed with him on his deportation order should be impeached. The Chief justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, made an uncharacteristic comment saying, quote, impeachment is not an appropriate response to a judicial decision.
Do you believe this judge should be impeached, Senator? Well, first of all, let me say I hope every high school civics teacher and every high school student is paying attention because we're having a lesson in civics. It's not crisis. It's.
And our founders created a system where there was these tugs and poles between the three branches. And it's messy sometimes, but that's the beauty of the Constitution. And, you know, you can talk impeachment, you can throw it out there, that's what you could do. But the reality of it is it takes two thirds of the Senate to impeach.
We know that's not gonna happen. Do you think it's appropriate for President Trump to be talking about impeachment in the context of this federal judge? So, listen, I would never be one to say to the president what he can say, what he can't say. I'm gonna tell you, if it were me, I probably would be poking the people that are gonna make decisions about me, but that's me.
And the president's gonna do what the president does. And just to button this up, I mean, you heard Leader Schumer say he thinks this is a constitutional crisis. It sounds like he wouldn't go that far. Well, listen, it's easy to throw out.
And by the way, when everything's a crisis, nothing is a crisis. President Trump has been very clear multiple times. He will obey court orders. So I don't see the crisis.
Like I said, I see the civics lesson. Like, people need to be watching this and say, this is. This is actually what our founders intended, this tension right. Between the three different branches.
And Congress has a role in this. And you could fairly say we need to do more. And I'm with you. Right.
I think a lot of this opens up for the president when we don't do our job. Are you confident that the president, the Trump administration's actions here in this specific case are legal? When you say specific case, you referring to the flights? Yes, the flights.
I'm watching all this. I'm trying to gather the information. I'm not a lawyer, so let's let this play out. And I think that's the beauty of the courts, is having confidence that it will play out.
We'll get the right answer. Let's talk about one of the other big issues, Doge. These attempts by President Trump and Elon Musk to cut the government. Republican lawmakers, as you know, are facing backlash at town halls across the country.
We saw that play out in your home state just this week. I'm sure our viewers were a little bit catch reaction on the other side trying to answer the question, so what are we doing to make sure anything illegal we're all going to push for you. Senator, are you comfortable with Elon Musk making cuts to the federal government, something that is constitutionally the job of Congress? Well, first of all, we talk about town hall meetings and a shout out to these two members and the other members who are doing it.
I think one of our fundamental responsibilities as elected officials is accessibility. And last week I drove a thousand miles in my truck and I saw teachers, I saw elected officials, I saw students, I saw school board presidents and protesters and talked to all of them. It basically was a week long town hall meeting. And I think one of the things we're not talking about is this.
The stereotype over the town hall meeting is I've done over 400 town halls in my seven years in Congress and I've learned that the stereotypical town hall may not be the best way to communicate with your constituents. I've changed my town hall format. I actually say a few remarks and then we break into groups and I take five minute interviews with constituents. As long as they will wait.
I've got as long as two hours during these five minute interviews. And they love it. And that's the accessibility they're longing for. And part of that accessibility, though, what we're seeing is this outrage that Elon Musk at the forefront of these cuts.
They say that is Congress's job. What say you, Senator? Should this be the job of Congress? Do you have the oversight responsibility for this?
Yes. First of all, let's acknowledge that their anger and their fear is real. Right. And I think that's what I learned.
Right. Going around the state last week. But I think it's this false narrative that somehow somebody can't get involved. It's not an elected official or just because they're a billionaire, they're a bad person.
Right. President Trump can consult anybody he wants to. Elon Musk is not making any cuts. He's only suggesting the cuts and then President Trump is making the cuts.
Let me ask you because Elon Musk ruffled some feathers when he referred to Social Security, something that he's also eyeing as a part of his doge efforts as a Ponzi scheme. Senator, do you see Social Security as a Ponzi scheme? Well, I would use those words, but we're not being honest either with people. And that's why you'll actually see me in a couple months introduce the change to Social Security.
We're not being honest when the people in the eye and say we're not going to touch it. If we don't touch it, it touches itself. You know that, Right? That's not being honest with American people.
And I think that's one of the things that makes them not trust us when we say something that they just know is not true. And you're absolutely right. I mean, there's broad agreement that entitlements are not solvent in the long run, but the question is what to do about it. And about one in eight of your constituents actually receive Social Security benefits.
Roughly the same number are on Medicare. I think the question is, the concern is that these folks don't lose coverage. So can you sit here today, guarantee your constituents they won't lose coverage, they won't be subject to deep cuts? All the ice involved you right now.
We don't need to impact the people that are in Social Security. But if we don't have a conversation about my kids, 20 year olds or 30 year olds, that's where the problem is. And so we can't be afraid of this conversation simply because people think we're going to take it away from. We all need to say, look, those in retirement and those in near retirement, we're not going to touch it, you're safe.
But let's have that conversation because my kids don't think they're going to get it. So why can't we have a conversation with them about moving some of the variables around? And the sooner we do it, the less dramatic it has to be. If we don't do it, we have worse decisions thrust upon us.
Continues to be one of the greatest challenges of our time. Your predecessor, Senator Mitt Romney, I have to tell you, he was known for breaking with President Trump. You actually expressed his agreements with President Trump on a range of different topics, whether we're talking about Ukraine or tariffs. I wonder, are you publicly comfortable voicing your disagreements with President Trump in the second administration?
Look at President Trump for sitting right here today. This is what I'd say. I want you to be wildly successful. People in Utah want the border fixed.
People in Utah want inflation to come down. People in Utah want peace abroad. I'm going to be winning your back, Mr. President.
But that doesn't mean we're always going to see things the same way. And when we see things differently, I'm going to speak up and it will be respectful. But I do have a mind of my own. I was elected to represent my constituents and they have things that are important to them.
And it's a false narrative to say we're always going to see things 100% the same way. Two months in, are you comfortable with everything you've seen so far? Is there one area of real disagreement that you have? Well, listen, I think everybody is uncomfortable in the United States right now.
That's why we're seeing the protests right in my drive around the state. I mentioned 1,000 miles. You know, I've got people in mostly rural Utah and they're uncomfortable, too, because of what's happening at the border, what's happening with inflation and all of us. This is all hands on deck for all of us to solve these problems very quickly.
Can you name one area where you've dismissed President Trump? What about his tariff policy? Do you have concerns? So listen, of course I have concerns, but he campaigned on tariffs.
Nobody should be surprised that he's doing tariffs. He told us he was going to do that and that's what he's doing. Steve Bannon this week made some headlines saying that he's working on a plan to allow President Trump to run for a third term. Is there any scenario where you would support a third term for President Trump which is not legal under the Constitution?
Yeah, I wouldn't support a third term for George Washington. So that's a no? That's a no. Yeah.
Okay. Senator, thank you. Please come back soon. Senator Curtis, really appreciate it.
Thank you. When we come back, is the Trump administration defying the courts? What's next in the multiple escalating legal fights? The panels Next, let's kickstart your wellness journey with the app.
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The panel is here NBC News senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson, anchor of the Sunday edition of NBC Nightly News NBC News White House correspondent Yamich Alcindor, Adrian Elrod, former senior advisor and spokesperson for the Harris campaign and Stephen Hayes, editor and CEO of the Dispatch. Thanks to all of you for being here. A lot of ground to cover. Hallie, let's start off by talking about this big back and forth between President Trump and the courts.
There's so much at stake here. But if you zoom out, part of what we are seeing is the president really try to test the bounds of executive authority. How do you deal with pushing and pushing out pushing? It was interesting to me to hear Senator Kersi, you know, if it were me, I wouldn't be like coking the bear quite so much.
I will tell you the base of my conversations with sources outside the White House, but close to the president. I heard something very interesting over this week as I was making calls. Senator Schumer called what's happening a constitutional crisis to I heard that language from those inside the Trump orbit in the other direction, meaning what the judges are doing they see as a constitutional crisis in pushing back on what the president is trying to implement here. Now, obviously, fact check, the Constitution does delineate.
Obviously, judiciary has a role, but there is a really strong, I think, push to try to fight back. In other words, don't expect these attacks to go away anytime soon. Coming from President Trump, it is something that he really deeply is agreed by. So you know what Hallie said, He's fascinated.
It could be a little bit of a preview of the fight that we could see this week as we continue to watch what happens in the courts. That's right. And I think what Hallie said is right in that President Trump feels like this is a lane, that he's having success in that he can keep attacking the courts and then he has a sort of political win at his back to do this. I also been talking to some Democrats about the language here and it's interesting to hear Senator Schumer, Schumer talk about a Constitution crisis.
There are some Democrats who according agree with him and are really worried about his attack. He think of the chief justice of the Supreme Court saying that extraordinary statement that the right way to do this is the appellate process and not through impeaching judges. But I also Democrats, younger Democrats who are worried that if Democrats are saying it's a constitutional crisis now, if President Trump moves to impeach Supreme Court justices, if he pushes back it in some other way, that is even worse. Than what they're seeing now.
This language could become a little too, a little too hard to navigate and that everybody being able to ratchet up. Yeah, Asian. What about that point? Could this language around constitutional crisis be getting ahead of the curve and basically giving away some key cards too early in the fight?
Well, exactly. I think the majority is exactly right. I think we have to be very careful when we use this type of language. You can certainly make argument, especially when Trump defied the courts on the movement of illegal aliens.
You can make the argument that he is, he has defied the courts and that could lead us into a constitutional crisis. But I don't think we're there yet. I think we have to be extremely careful how we use this language. But if we get to that point, we need to see Senate Republicans stepping up.
We need to see CEOs in America stepping up. It needs to be an all hands on deck moment. We are just at the very beginning of this presidency for the second term. We just have to be very careful in terms of how we message it.
It's a really fascinating divide that we're seeing because leaders clearly wanted to lean into that. Stephen, how far do you think this president will go to test the limits of his power? How do you see this plan prepare? I mean, if you look at this in context, I think the way that you turned into your question, Dalley, exactly the right way to think about this.
You can just look at this as an isolation of the courts. This is a broad attempt to consolidate power in the executive. You look at what the President has done on tariffs with Congress agreeing to cede power to the president, not being willing to bring it back. You look at what he's doing with spending and with what he's doing on Doge.
You look at the way that the White House handled nominations, approaching Republican senators, as if he were somehow entitled to his Cabinet nominees. This is the President who wants strong executive power. I think, you know, I think it'd be hard for White House to flip the script and make that opposite argument, in part because you have people, conservatives, conservative legal scholars who have been enthusiastic about executive power in the past, particularly in the conduct of national security, informed policy, like Amy McCarthy, like John Yu from the Bush administration, who are saying, look, we think the executive has a lot of room to maneuver here, but pat the brakes. It's one of the things that we really are going to be watching and even mentions Doge, you have new reporting overnight.
The fact that some of the President's allies are urging the President the White House to either take Elon Musk off air or say, you gotta have a better set of talking points if you're gonna go out and be the spokesperson, particularly as it relates to entitlement, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. That's right. My reporting, our reporting is here, sharing that filing with us this morning. What Trump allies and even Republican law makers are telling the White House and Trump himself directly are reporting shows is that Elon Musk, in his language, is making a lot of people nervous and when it comes to Social Security and Medicare.
And it's contradicting the promises that President Trump himself are continuing to make. So they've been calling the White House, saying this idea of Elon Musk getting on Joe Rogan's podcast and saying that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme is really problematic because there are seniors out there that see that news and say, wait, is it going to touch my, my Social Security? I will say that I've talked to a number of officials who are also talking to President Trump before top 80s, who say that they continue to believe. The White House has also told us that they will not be touching Social Security.
The president will continue to keep that promise. But there are some changes. Right. We know that the, there's this phone service that's being pulled back where seniors can't change their bank information over phone.
That has big impact because if you're 84, 85, you might not be able to get online or go to the office. And that's the sort of things that people are also worried about how you and I cover the first Trump administration. These relationships are so fascinating how see this moment playing out with Trump and Musk where Musk's proverbials continue to drop. So one of the questions I've candidly been asking many my sources, is it interesting to you that the president hasn't soured on Elon Musk?
Right. Because we've seen that in the past when it comes to folks who maybe quote, final, too close to the sun. As far as getting to the White House or near the White House and amassing power here, that has not been the case so far for President Trump. I have heard from outside allies who suggest that what Musk is doing is a little bit distracting.
What they'd like to see the president be focusing on and the White House be focusing on. But at the same time, I think there is an understanding he's here, the president likes that, the president continues to like him. And so everybody's got to figure out how to navigate that rather than having Musk figure out how they navigate them, does that make sense? And to this point, like the president kind of putting Musk in a box of cabinet officials couple weeks back seem to have gone along with, well, I think we're not likely to see the end of Cabinet officials who are frustrated with what Elon Musk is doing.
The Republicans I'm talking to say this is a problem. It's a growing problem. They're able to sort of keep it under wraps right now, but it's coming. But the White House did tell me that the president does like everything that he's seen Elon Musk do, but there is no daylight there.
And that's something I think that underscores, you think about with the presidency. It's a fascinating relationship. We will continue to watch Standby with a lot more to discuss when we come back. President Trump release the remaining JFK files.
This week we look back at what the plot to kill the president revealed about the American government. I mean, the president is next. Welcome back. The Trump administration this week declassified more than 63, 000 pages of documents related to the assassination of President John F.
Kennedy. Delivering on a campaign promise, legendary newscaster Walter Cronkite broke the news live on the air, his voice breaking as he delivered the official announcement of the President's death 35 years later, Cronkite joined MEET THE PRESS to reflect on that unforgettable day. That continuity was the most impressive thing about the assassination, other than the tragedy of it to most governments around the world. I heard many times since then, even lately, that many people feel that this is the strongest feature of the American government, is our smooth transition at a time of great crisis.
We realize at the moment we didn't know what the plot was, perhaps behind the death of the president. We didn't know whether that plot would be carried out against the vice president as well. We didn't know whether there's some revolutionary force that we hadn't even dreamed of that was about to come out of the woodworkers where. And it was a really remarkable thing, that smooth transition.
When we come back, as the Democrats struggle to find a message to push back against Trump, former President Joe Biden says he wants to step back in to help his party. More with the PANEL next day with us. To learn more about the books featured on Meet THE Press, go to nbcnews.com books. You'll also find new releases on history, biography and more.
NBC News receives a commission for sales made through our website. The panel is still here. Adrian, let me start with you. In my conversation with Leader Schumer, he was defiant.
He says he's not stepping down. I guess the question is, are we seeing the same type of groundswell that we saw when President Biden ultimately stepped in? Yeah, look, Leader Schumer only in trouble as somebody actually formidable once more. I have not seen that happen yet.
And it's been a hard few weeks for Democrats. There's no question out of it. Look, we've got to go back on office because there's so much going on. We just talked about some of this, the dangerous policies that Trump is erupting, you know, divine courts, et cetera.
We've got to get back on offense. The tax side is coming up. I think that's a place where Democrats can really unite, come together, and remind the American people what we're all about as a party. You know, Yamiche, it's so fascinating because Leader Schumer was one of the people who convinced President Biden to essentially pass the baton to Vice President Harrison step down.
He rejects the notion that there's a parallel there, but are folks seeing it that way in any context? The Democrats are talking to doors, seeing this more as a generational divide than a mental facilities divide. When you think about the fact that there was all these questions about President Biden's ability to actually do the job, I haven't heard anybody question Lee Schumer's ability to do the job. It's about his vision for the party and his vision for pushing back against Trump and younger Democrats, especially the ones that are really wanting to see the Democrats really embrace the next generation of leaders.
They're wanting to see more fire. They're wanting to see the tone of aoc. They're wanting to see Democrats say, we're not giving an inch and we're not making any deals with Republicans because they aren't going to do anything but continue to cut, make massive cuts and continue to do things. That AC is cruel, frankly.
It all holds up under this bigger umbrella of what is the Democratic strategy right now at large, pushing back against President Trump. And I had one Democrat say to me just last night, you know, we may not be very competent on that front, but they are so incompetent, in this person's words, meeting Republicans. But that message is one I think a lot of Democrats who feel like they can't sell right now. And this conversation around you, Schumer, somebody asking me, listen, like normal human beings kind of don't care about whether structure has a book they care about.
What is the fight inside a Democratic Party? What's going on with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, these sort of classic bread and butter issues that people care about. But if you look at Chuck Schumer, including his interview with you, it feels like Democrats are playing the oldies. When it's Chuck Schumer, and if you think about the arguments he's making, you know, eight of the 10 elections since 2006 have been change elections.
Yeah. When you look at Washington, people want change, Democrats want change, or politics want change. They're schizophrenic about what they think about the policies, but they want change. You look at Chuck Schumer and think, is this change?
I heard him this week defending Joe Biden. He did push me to have Joe Biden step out after the disastrous debate, but he basically went back and said, hey, look, we didn't, I didn't have any idea that he was having declining mental faculties. That's not believable. That's not plausible.
Nobody believes that. Well, as the party sort of searching for its message, for its strategy, we saw Senator Sanders, Congresswoman Alexander Castel Cortez teaming up, crisscrossing the country, basically warning of this oligarchy, drawing massive crowds. Adrian, and it comes as former President Biden, and we have new reporting on this. Apparently, once back into the fight, he wants to help the Democratic Party revive itself.
What's your reaction? What do you think the reaction will be in the party? Do you think that can happen in this moment? Look, President Biden had a very historically successful administration.
There's no question about that. And there are probably some candidates out there running for office who would like to have him on the black one side. And that is for them to decide. But the bottom line is this is all hands on deck moment.
We need people like President Biden, President Obama, President Clinton, all the former Democratic presidents to be involved in some way, shape or form. This is also about the future of our party person. And I think there's sort of a. You can play it both ways.
We need, you know, the leaders of our party who've been former presidents to be involved in this moment and to step out and to really let the voices be heard. But at the same time, we got really focused on the future. And that's certainly where I think a lot of my colleagues in the Democratic Party are asked. Speaking of that, Hallie, I mean, President Trump was asked, how did you feel about Biden getting back into the rain?
He said, great. I mean, it's Very fraught. Because here we are two months into the Trump administration, and Adrian's talking about the future of the Democratic Party. That's right.
And that is a huge question. Who is next? It's not just what is next, it is who is next? Well, right now, I think there are many Democrats, and we see it.
And you played those town hall clips, and I thought that was really illuminating because we're seeing over and over again these town halls, not just the Republicans, both with Democrats. Right. And people shouting down the member of Democratic member Congress saying, what are you doing now? Right.
There's a lot of discussion inside the Democratic what is next? But I think there's a real hunger from voters that we have seen play out this past recess. We go, what are you doing tomorrow? Right on month two and four days of the Trump administration.
That's what they want. And people are wondering what we're seeing at these town halls. Are we seeing a little mini Tea Party start to form? I think that we're seeing the town halls is a real.
A real example of the frustration that so many Americans are feeling, Democrats and Republicans. I spent all day outside the Department of Education, the day that the president signed that executive order saying that he wanted to close down the Department of Education. And when I saw I could wake up that day was so many workers coming in, including people who were retiring, who were told that they couldn't even go into the building to get their stuff. These are people who did what Elon Musk wanted them to do, took the deal to say, I'm going to leave, and they weren't allowed to get their office plants out of their cubicles.
And I think that that's the sort of frustration we're seeing boil over in town hall. People are feeling like not only are people sad about the changes in the cuts, but they're also, there's like an actual embarrassment and actual shame and actual cruelty that being played on that. And that's what we're seeing in final 30 seconds. Against this backdrop, there's all this discussion about a possible third term.
Are Republicans taking that seriously? I mean, I think they'll start to. Now, you've heard Steve Bannon advocate for Donald Trump having a third term. It's one of these things where, you don't know.
It sounds ridiculous at the beginning, but, you know, the President said that he was going to challenge the election, and then he did. People didn't take it seriously, and they got to, all right, we'll continue to watch all of it. Great conversation, guys. Thanks.
So much for being here. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet THE.
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