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Oh my God. Oh my God. The last time I can ever remember feeling any sensation like the out of body experience I felt last night watching the Milwaukee Bucks completely collapse at the hands of Jimmy Fing Butler in Miami. He had a team by the way that looked absolutely dead in the water about 10 days ago, two weeks, I don't know, whatever it was, when they could barely score a basket against the Chicago Bulls.
The last time I felt like that, my jaw just on the floor for an hour straight, anything like it was in the bubble when in game seven of the Nuggets Clippers series, the Nuggets rallied from another big deficit, the Clippers just collapsed in every possible way. A team that I thought could have won the title that year. That's the last time I felt anything like the feeling in my gut, in my brain, in my dreaming this, in my hallucinating that I felt last night. And this, this was worse.
This was worse. The Bucks, the Vegas Championship favorites. My pick all season twin title. Nice job, NBA analyst Zach Lowe, Clippers Bucks Finals.
Well, that worked out for you. Better luck next year, idiot. The Bucks are out. It might be the biggest upset in the history of the NBA playoffs.
I haven't been able to dive down into it that deeply yet. One versus eight, obviously, John has played only two full games, they lost both of them, so I don't wanna hear that as an excuse. Only one you won was without him when you made a zillion threes. And look, I'm used to the Bucks offense in the half court disintegrating into nothingness, into John is taking inexplicable fadeaway jumpers in the post over by Amato bio, people dribbling the ball off their feet, people not having any real idea what a good play to run might be.
John is taking a pull up jumper just cause he still thinks that's a good idea somehow in the 10th year of his career, wherever the hell we are. Now you saw that. I'm used to the Bucks not adjusting. I'm used to it.
That's just what they do. They don't adjust, they're gonna do what they do. Is Jimmy Butler tearing you apart with maybe the greatest first round playoff series in the history of the NBA averaging 38 points a game, destroying single coverage, bulldozing everyone who's not named Drew Holiday, even scoring officially Andrew Holiday is all that happening. Are you gonna throw Giannis on him?
No, that's fine. That's not the Super Bowl that everybody thinks it is. What I've tried it. Yeah, sure, try it.
Try anything, anything. They don't have any other players. Hit him in the groin. Get the playoffs, they're going to say, hit him in the groin.
Get Dylan Brooks on your team and hit him in the groin. 38 points a game. Minimal help, minimal double teams, minimal anybody but Jimmy, defense. I'm used to all that.
That's Mike Boone-Hoser, that's the Bucks. Should not have a timeout, or excuse me, to not call a timeout at the end of regulation. And then in the press conference afterwards to answer the question by just saying, yeah, we needed to call a timeout there. I just, I don't think there's any coming back from that.
To not have Brook Lopez in the game on that unbelievable sideline out of bounds to Jimmy. How he caught that perfect game Vincent passed. Shout out to game Vincent, who went out there, like he thought he was the god damn best player in the NBA and made enough shots to justify it, including the pull up three that nobody will remember to put the game within one before the Bucks started doing nine million crazy things. How about when Yannes got to jump ball and almost threw it out of bounds because he was so afraid to get fouled?
What are we doing? What are we doing here? Where was I? Oh, the out of bounds play.
Yeah, Jimmy Butler, amazing play. You don't call timeout. You don't have Brook Lopez in for that play. And then you let the clock run out at the end of your season without taking a shot.
There are some losses from which there is just no going back. You cannot come back the same team. And the Bucks cannot come back the same team from this. I don't know how it will go.
We have very smart people that come on now and talk to us about their off season league insiders. And you don't really have to be an insider, but league insiders are extremely skeptical that Mike Boudenholzer can return his head coach to the Bucks next year after this. He has, according to Wojcie's last extension, which happened after they won the title, runs through the 24-25 seasons. He's got two years left.
I just don't see any coming back from it. It's just logic. I don't see how you can have the press conference where you say we should have called the time out there. I think the league insiders are going to be right.
I just don't see any other way. And now you just come to mortality for a team comes really fast in the NBA. Brook Lopez is a free agent. Chris Middleton can be a free agent.
Drew Holiday will be eligible for an extension in the middle of next season. They're all in their 30s. Giannis will be eligible for the Super Duper, Gudupre Max in September. You think that's going to be a big landmark moment in the NBA?
You think the other 29 teams aren't like, whoa, whoa. What just happened in Milwaukee? They didn't call the timeout. And Giannis threw the ball out of bounds in shot 10 of 23 at the foul line with a bad back, but still.
And then they missed other free throws. And then they didn't get a shot off. And Grayson Allen is probably still drippling around downtown to Milwaukee right now in his uniform. But maybe I can get my floater off.
Oh my god. This is, I literally couldn't fall asleep last night because I was just sitting in my bed thinking, hey, I have to get up and watch Warriors Kings tomorrow morning. Warriors for Breakfast is one of the slogans in my house because they always play so late. Warriors for Breakfast.
I love Warriors for Breakfast. You get my coffee. Give me Steph Curry. Give me the words.
And like, what just happened? Jay Crowder didn't play. Jay Crowder, every Instagram post and cryptic tweet was dissected. Like, oh my, what does that mean?
Who's going to trade for Jay Crowder? Could he report back to Phoenix? How many sec around picks? Five?
Jordan O'Rourke, who actually played well for the Paisler? Jay Crowder couldn't even get on the court, except for one defensive possession. West Matthews. God bless him.
That's who you turn to to save your season. West Matthews. Bobby Portis, six man of the year, finalist played 25 minutes combined in the last two games or something like that had zero points last night. Maybe 32 minutes.
I don't know. Some amount of small minutes. Oh my god. Bobby Marks and Howard Beck Bobby, you're going to help us plot out the box of offseason.
How are you? I'm good. The beauty of it is I couldn't even watch the game last night because it was blocked out of here in Southwest Florida. So we had to go old school.
We had to go Golden State, sack on the screen. And we went serious radio in my office. So with the box going running. So I watched it this morning.
It was everything you just described. And then some. I forgot that Janice fouled Max Drew's down by two shooting at three landed underneath his feet. And it was such an obvious call that everyone was like, oh, yeah, the two time MVP, the guy who was campaigning for third MVP.
Well, just did that at that time. But it's fire at all into the universe. Howard Beck. Howard Beck, how are you?
I'm doing well. I love that opening rants. It might be my top five. I'm just astonished.
I'm not angry. I'm just astonished. I get through. Top five all time low post intro slash rant.
It was rinky. We can do the Janice thing where we pin this on Janice and talk about his legacy. We can do that if we want. He had 38 and 20 playing with the bad back.
Yeah, he shot 13 of 23 rather, 10 of 23 from the foul line. That sucks. That's really bad. You should be a better free throw shooter than that.
Really bad, really bad hot potato at the end that Chris Middleton superman dove into the stands to save your goddamn ass from really a really an all time blooper. Janice hit 16 free throws in the biggest game of his life to win the NBA finals. And he just keeps going to the line. He's never afraid.
He's going to keep going. He's going to keep missing. Like he's got my respect. 10 of 23 is bad.
It's not going to really tame his legacy all that much for me. Like he's got my respect. He won a title. He made all his free throws, played through a back injury.
The foul was dumb. The hot potato was embarrassing. The free throws were bad. The shot selection was bad.
It's bad. It's part of it. It's part of it. Just like LeBron's 2011 finals.
It's part of it. It's part of the story. It doesn't make him a fundamentally different human being or player. To me, it's just going to be part of the story.
With respect to what he answered after the game about the season not being a failure, the season is a gigantic colossal embarrassing humiliating failure. Bobby, I'll start with you. What's the most interesting question about the Milwaukee team? I mean, it's the coach.
It's the coach. All the other things were flowing. The Brooke Lopez, Chris Middleton, Janice, eventually D'Rihale. It's the coach.
Two years removed from winning a championship. Likely was going to get fired if Kevin Durant's toe was not behind the three-point line in the Brooklyn series. How much, as I say, championship equity did he buy by winning a championship? Hey, Nick Nurse won a championship four years ago and is out in Toronto.
We're two years removed from that. I think if you're Milwaukee and you're in the front office there and you see someone that you think could be the coach in waiting on your bench, whether it be a person like Charles Lee, for example, and you think he could be your coach, or he could get a job somewhere else, okay, then you are making a change because it's almost like if Boston would have known the whole email, Doca stuff and would not have let Will Hardy go to Utah. If you had a coach in waiting on your roster here, then I think that's something that Milwaukee is going to have to consider. But for me, and I didn't even really write about it because I didn't think it was such how games five was going to unfold.
But for me, it starts with the head coach and then it's going to filter into all these other questions about the roster. Howard, what stutter stands out to you? Say something, just say something. I'm out of the questions.
Well, I mean, Bobby's right, but I think like the coach is almost and you said exactly the opening. The coach is almost the obvious part and I hate saying that because like I'm one who I usually try to steer away from like predicting or speculating on guys getting fired. But man, I don't see how that's avoidable here, but that's not going to be enough. I mean, I think everybody could agree.
Yes, there were decisions made and not made last night that are a huge part of this. I thought it was interesting too that Janis, you know, without actually blaming Bud didn't exactly absolve him of anything and some of his responses about those decisions. When the superstar says we didn't adjust, we didn't adjust, we didn't adjust. It's an indictment.
The spray paint is on the wall. Well, here's the thing. I'm going to go back 19 years from my days in New Jersey after we lost to San Antonio in game six of the NBA finals when we were up 14 points. And we know what the press conference was.
We didn't adjust. And you know what happened five months later? Byron Scott got fired after going to the NBA finals. So you're right.
When your star players say that, then they're certainly writing on the wall. Also, listen, listen, you could see, I'm not going to say we could predict this kind of collapse in five games in the first round. By the way, the first number one seed in the best of seven first round era to lose in five games. Like the last time a one lost in five games was back when it was the best of five series.
I missed the best of five, by the way. The part of this that I think was foreseeable, if not necessarily right now, this month, yesterday, but that was on the horizon was that this roster was getting old. The supporting cast was starting to get a little older and a little less reliable. And I thought at some point in the near future, I didn't expect it would be today, they're going to have to reckon with how to refresh the lineup around.
They've done a really nice job of bringing in the right pieces at the right time. Guys who were like, Brooke Lopez, the Lakers didn't even value him enough to keep him around. The Nets had offloaded him. Chris Middleton was a brilliant pick up in a trade with the Pistons years ago.
Drew Holiday was the one all in move that they made that was kind of the we need our last piece. But Drew is 33 in June. Middleton's 32 in August. Lopez is 35.
And keeping everybody together means a massive luxury tax bill that Bobby could speak to much more intelligently than I can. This was coming. This moment was, I did not expect this moment would be today. But the moment where they were going to have to reckon coming, I will just note as a quick aside, the self-interested plug here.
I just had a Q&A slash kind of exit interview with Mark Lazry, the Bucks, one of the co-owners who sold his share a couple weeks ago, which just went through. Interviewed him for GQ Sports and talked about why leaving now. And he put it in financial terms, right? The profit that he's making off of selling his 25% share is just a mind blowing him out.
But I think on some level, he did not say this. I'm not going to put words in Mark's mouth. But on some level, I think this was the right time to get out for competitive reasons too. He got to ride the wave through a championship and threw these great years with Giannis becoming honest.
This is now an inflection point for the franchise. They've got to change an ownership. They were probably going to have a change on the bench. I assume John Horst is fine in the front office.
The roster, I think, is up for reimagining. Welcome, new owners. It's a flexion point. It's a flexion point.
I would put it that way. Oh, it's a crisis. It's not a crisis. Before the season, I had Bill Simmons on the Popcrison just for fun because I thought it was a bit he would enjoy it.
I said, let's go through the list of the top 75 all-time players, the guy who's got a name, top 75. Who's under the most pressure this season? It's a talking head thing, but it was fun. And I assumed he would say hard in Durant is what's his choice.
And I said, let me make the case for Giannis. Let me just, I don't think it's Giannis, but let me make the case. And the case was exactly what you just said. You've won one title to MVP.
You're an all-time player. Whatever you do for now on, you're in whatever top, whatever pantheon, all-time, already done. As you get up that hierarchy, the littlest things start to differentiate, right? Two titles, one title, whatever it is.
How many more chances are you going to get with this core to realistically win a title? And Bill was like, I didn't think about it. It was less about Giannis and more about the age of the roster. One person put it to me like this last night.
Here's the good news. If you want to keep the honest content, you probably have to pay Chris Middleton if he opts out, or even if he opts in for one year, whatever. And Brooklyn Pez, because there's no replacing them in free agency. You don't have the cap space in your Milwaukee.
There's no replacing them. Here's the bad news. You have to pay Chris Middleton and Brooklyn Pez and you're trapped into this roster. And it's a great roster.
They could run it back next year and win 55 games again. Who knows? But they are, at a certain level, this is just what happens to great teams, right? You trade your picks for good veterans.
You trade the future for now. And you end up old and capped out and having to find a way to like wriggle your way to your next era without falling back if you have a 10-pole star. They have a 10-pole super-duper star. It's hard to do.
And it's hard to do when you look at what the Bucks have done in the draft since Giannis, which is one of the all-time great draft picks. Since then, they have gotten zero, almost zero out of the draft in 10 years. Almost it's a whole list of Thon makers and DJ Wilson's and RJ Hampton's and Blobblades. It's just a whole list of nothing.
And yeah, you pick at the back. That's part of the deal. When you win, you pick at the back, you're going to miss most this time. You got to hit like one out of every four.
It's just not even big hits. And when they did hit, they hit Malcolm Brogdon, who they traded for largely financial, at least somewhat financial reasons. And you hit with Dante T. Vincenzo and a trade that Bobby, you and I were on this podcast when that trade happened.
People liked that trade for Surgiabaka. And I said on that podcast, I just did not. I know Dante T. Vincenzo's slumping.
His ankle was injured. He couldn't make a shot. I am not in the business of trading wing for big, particularly a big who had not shown anything in a couple seasons in Surgiabaka. And the Bucks fans all laughed at me and said, he hasn't been watching the Bucks.
Don't the D. Vincenzo can't make a shot? No, I was watching the Bucks. I get it.
And I'm not saying that trade makes the difference between this, whatever this is and something better. It's just they don't have a lot in the cupboard and they haven't helped them. And again, to credit this run off, it's due holiday trade, master stroke, getting Lopez for nothing, master stroke, getting Bobby Portis for nothing, master stroke. They did a lot of great work.
There's just not a lot of young stuff in the pipeline. And here we are. Here we are. I will say this.
This is, to me, reminiscent of a couple other situations. And all of these are very different. But in the abstract, they are similar enough to bring up this analogy. The Shakin-Kobi Lakers, by the end, was they were crumbling, right?
They go to the finals three times in, excuse me, together, win the three championships in a row, come back, get to the finals again, and get smoked by the Pistons in 2004. There were a bunch of things going on, but not least of which was that Robert Orey had moved on and they replaced him with, Karl Malone took that flyer, and Malone got hurt that year. Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, Ron Harper, bringing back Horace, they were old. They were old and creaky around Shakin-Kobi.
Now, Shakin-Kobi wanted nothing to do with each other. There were other things going on. But what I saw happen over the course of the seven years, I was covering them and threw that bitter end for them. It is hard drafting late every single season.
It's hard to find those diamonds in the rough in the late 20s of the first round, if you have your picks at all. No matter the economic system, them in the NBA or the economic system now, there's always these built in limitations where whether it's luxury tax, cap exceptions, having enough of them to be stay competitive, it's hard to keep refreshing. And the other one I think of is the Heetles era. Did anybody still refer to it as Heetles?
It was a Heetles. I never had those. I was always anti-heetles. That's a nickname, not as a team, isn't it?
Yeah. But that four year run was in some way shorter than it should have been, and maybe less glorious than it could have been, because they had so much invested in the three stars that there just wasn't a lot they could do around the edges and think about how old and creaky they looked by the end of what was just a four year run. And this happens. Great teams, if you were in the finals every single year for a four or five year span or you're making deep rounds.
Or once. Or even once in the box case. But you are perpetually drafting late in the first round. You have probably traded picks as they have in this case.
So you're limited in the other ways you can improve. And they tend to dissolve anything. And they did the most important thing, which is they won a title. Nothing ever takes that away.
And I think, although it's fundamental and obvious, as everyone is going through the wreckage of this today, like we are, I think you have to put front and center. They won the whole damn thing. And they kept you on us and they won a title. I mean, I was kind of the big, but now we move forward.
And like, I mean, Zach, you didn't even hit on like, and like, well, all these decisions, like, and then you add in the new CBA coming in, right? Like, which will further, further restrict how this roster is going to be built out, where it's basically, they are going to be forced almost to keep this team together. And they were going to be forced to pay substantial penalties here. Bobby, can you take us through the honest extension timetable, please?
Yeah, so he is extension eligible starting on September 22nd. He's got three years left on his contract. The third year is a player option. There are two different ways he can do it.
He can sign a three year, $174 million extension. That would take that player option year, which is that 52 million goes away. We replace it with a new contract, and we add two more years onto it, OK? Or he can opt into that 52 million dollar number and add another two years at $119 million that would put him in a Milwaukee uniform to 202728.
So big picture, he's got three years left on his deal. Last year is a player option. He can add either another two or three years onto his contract. That is a late September thing.
That's right, before training camp. Does he have any real incentive to sign a extension? No, no. And there's a deadline, October 23rd.
I mean, the real incentive is that it's another $100 million plus million guaranteed money, right? Or you just play it out and you wait until you're, you know, into the off season of 25 when you'll become a free agent and you'll be able to sign for 300 million plus from a Milwaukee or somewhere else. But there's no real incentive there, except for the guaranteed portion. The Bucks have two things going for them right now with regard to Janis, given the era of the NBA, we're in where stars are constantly either leaving free agency, demanding out with a year left or then two years left or four years left.
Like they've got the one star who in a small market said, I'm happy, I want to be here. Right after the, it was right after the Drew Holiday acquisition, right? That he committed to the extension. And I think they're fortunate that he's built the way he is.
The clip of him that's gone viral today, that's stirred an entire journalism debate. It was a very thoughtful and fascinating answer because Zach, you said it objectively speaking, there's no question, it was a failure. Their season was a failure. And a pretty embarrassing one given the expectations, the talent level where they are in the standings, the fact that they're in five games, all of it, every single bit of it is an objective failure and we on the outside will all define it that way.
But every athlete, coach, the people who are playing this game at an incredibly high level, they get to define for themselves what a failure is. And if Janis' answer is, and this is what was so fascinating and valuable about it, he can put it in philosophical terms and in broader life terms. I'm glad that he is not judging himself and his value or his work over the last eight months based solely on this. That's fine.
It's like very healthy response psychologically speaking, right? But it is a failure from a competitive standpoint. And if Janis weren't the kind of person who would give that kind of answer, the Bucks I think would have to be an utter panic over. Oh crap, is our guy going to ask out?
Because a lot of other stars in this situation might not be so philosophical about it. And might have, and listen, Janis could turn around and still do that too if he wanted to. I think what we know of Janis or what we've learned of him over these years is that he's not the kind of star who is going to start stamping his feet and demanding firings and trades and everything else we're saying getting out of here. That is at least working in their favor.
Also working in their favor is that he's won a title. So there is not this endless like ring, ring, ring, ring, and he was injured. Like this was a really good one. Yeah, well that's the other thing too, Zach.
He didn't play most of game one, didn't play game two, didn't play game three. I think there's a more of, if he was completely healthy, right? And played all five games and his team still lost four one. Then I think it raises more of the red, the alarms are going off, but I do think you give a teeny bit of a benefit, I guess it bends into the doubt.
For sure. Yeah, because of the circumstances. And I heard the scene and Sean Strania reported some of this yesterday. I heard the scene after game four was rough.
Like he was in rough shape in the locker room in pain. And I think they mentioned some fluids and all that. I think that was true. I think he was in rough shape after game four.
Look, I mean, ultimately, we don't, like Howard said, everything that Giannis has said and done in the past and the fact that he's won, would seem to indicate that he does not have the same wanderlust as maybe other superstars have had. That said, I mean, I don't need to tell you guys, the other 29 teams in the NBA are watching this and thinking is this nuclear bomb ever gonna go off? Because if it does, and I'm not saying it will, I don't know, I have no idea what Giannis is gonna do. My actual baseline assumption is that Giannis will just stay in Milwaukee forever and ever and ever.
I have no idea if that's true. And if there were a moment where he's gonna look around the roster and think if what I really wanna do is win, is this gonna be the best place for me to do this over the next five or six years? This is the first moment I think where he's gonna start asking where he could, not going to. I shouldn't say he's going to, I know what he's gonna do.
Where objectively he could look around and say, did our best chance pass us by? And I don't need to tell you guys, if there's ever, first of all, the bucks, the bucks will never trade them. They should never trade them unless he has to be traded. You just don't, it's like the thunder with the rant.
You go down with the ship. You don't trade guys like this. If they're your guy, homegrown guy. If he makes it known at any point that he's concerned about his future in Milwaukee, what is the list of players and draft picks that would not be made available in the event that Giannis ever asked for a trade?
I think the list might be one thing long. I think it might just be Steph Curry. I think that might be, now you can, obviously there's realistic things like, LeBron is not gonna get traded to rants. He's like, we all know that, but it's just in terms of sheer player and pick value.
I think Steph, maybe Luca, despite what happened this year. Yeah, I would say that if let's type of thethetical. Hypothetical. Yeah.
Get to be clear, this is just a fun theoretical challenge. John Horst called, let's Nico Harrison and said, hey, what were your thoughts on Luca for Giannis straight up? That's not a hang up call. That's a thoughtful conversation.
And I don't, like, this is just theoretical. I don't think this is on the verge of it happening or anything like that, but I was just thinking about it. Because all the stuff at the rant last summer, right, when you first requested a trade. And all the stuff that was like, well, with Toronto put this in and with, that's all in, all of it's in.
This is a 28 year old, two time MVP, considered probably the best player in the NBA. And everything's in. The other thing I just thought to myself when I couldn't go to sleep last night, because I'm a crazy person, is the other asset I thought a lot about was the number one pick in this draft. And I don't even know, I don't even know if, and some people were spitballing about this with me overnight, like just go, what if Giannis for Wim and Yama is like, my brain just exploded.
And I don't even know how to value either one of those things. But if a team, it would have to be a team that A got a commitment from Giannis, right? That's the number one you got to get a commitment that he's going to stay for more than two years out of left on his deal. And you got to be a team that's like the rare lottery team that's actually in a position to pivot pretty fast to being good.
If a team like that won the lottery, I mean, I don't even know, you'd have to shut down the NBA for like a year, if even a whisper of that discussion happened. It's not insane, it's not as a value proposition, but I have no idea how to buy it. Those are the only two assets I thought about. Listen, I think Giannis and Shae Gilles Alexander would love playing with each other.
I don't think we're there yet. I'm just saying like, this would be, why are you laughing? No, I just, that would just be, that would just be fitting. Like, I'm just saying, look, they're in the lottery, they've got a bazillion picks, they've got player, I'm just saying.
I hope for the sake of the Bucks in the city and the walker we never ever can do. Like I said, I have absolutely no indication that anything like that is never going to happen. I just know that this is going to be a very angsty next 12 to 18 to 24 months for the Bucks, not just because of the honest extension, but just because of what happened to their team and how old it's getting around Giannis. And if he doesn't sign that extension, it's not necessarily like, just a sign that he wants out.
It's just gonna be what Bobby said. He's going to get, he could break two legs today and get paid the max on his next contract. He's going to get his money. So the security doesn't necessarily mean anything to him.
It's just, it's gonna be an angsty 12 to 18 to 24 months as they try to sort of reorient this roster one way or another. And maybe it's just a simple change here and there and there back on their feet, but this is bad. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, as you said with the roster, I mean, like, we talked about the coach in Giannis, like now you've got Brooke Lopez and Chris Middleton. Those are your two, that's priority one A and one B.
And Lopez, you can extend them. You can extend them before June 30th. You can extend them for another three years. I got to miss you good.
Oh yeah, three for 54, you can't do four because you over 38 rule, Brookturn 35 in April. And Middleton is going to be the most interesting thing because of that $40 million player option. Let's face it, he had injuries the last couple of years. He has not been Chris Middleton.
There's been signs of it, but in this conversation, he's got leverage. I think he's got leverage. I think he's got leverage. I'm curious about this.
If I can ask the question for a sec, let's assume that they're, because they have no good options, right? You're still way over the cap. It's not like you can replace those guys with other younger players. So your re-signed Brookloaf is whether Middleton opts out in your re-sign or however the math works he stays.
You have the exact same roster and no reason to believe necessarily that they're going to get better from here. They were good enough to be the number one seed and maybe it would be again. But if we take it as a given that this group as constructed, if brought back at whatever the price might be and all the taxes and everything is still not good enough, what realistic options do they actually have, especially with the new CVA coming in, which I still do not have my head wrapped around entirely with second aprons and third aprons and probably dish towels and other things that you find in kitchens. Like what can they realistically even do once they're maxed out to this extent?
Well, I mean realistically what they can do outside of their core guys is that they don't have the tax, they probably won't have the tax level, which is that five? That's what they signed Joe Ingles to last year. They can bring back Ingles. 7.7 I think is the most they can bring back.
I don't think they're going to bring back Jay Crowder. I mean, that was the benefit of trading for him because you get his bird rights and now you can see the cap and you pay a price. But I don't, for me, I don't think, I mean, unless he's come back on the veteran minimum here, you've got a player option in Jevon Carter. I don't know what he's going to do.
It's 2.2 million. So I realized he'd never given their perimeter defense in the series. I'm a little surprised that he didn't get on the floor. Yeah, I mean, so your options, as you said, Howard, is that you've got Conanten, you've got Grayson Allen, you've got Portis, those are your guys, your kind of reserves, your other players.
And now you're really a March on Boat champ, you've got the 58th pick in the draft, you've got the veteran minimum exception for your other pieces of all those players that are. The West Matthews who you're not going to bring back. I mean, your picks, I mean, your picks are going out. I mean, 25 is O2, either New Orleans or New York.
You owe an unprotected 27 to New Orleans, 24 and 26. The Pelicans can swap. All worth it. They would have it.
Yeah, all worth it. But that's kind of where, so you are, as you said, like you're almost kind of, like you have to almost bring this group back and then hopefully you hit on some of these kind of fringe moves here. And at the end of the day, you bring them back and if it's not working, hopefully they still have, so many guys have trade value where you're kind of moving off players. You would rather have guys on your roster under contract than the cap space is overrated, right?
Like the reality of it's rate, you want movable pieces here. I think back for many reasons to the Cavs decision to extend Kevin Love on what was like a four year, one 30, something like that. It's a big deal. Hey, but it was the selling point, was that it was a decreasing contract?
I mean, how? And the other selling point above that was this will be a trade, we can get positive trade value out of this. And I remember saying to people, they're like, I don't know if that's going to be the case. And of course, they end up waving him.
And now he was phenomenal last night for the Heat. When they needed size and they needed shooting, he stepped up until he fouled out. And they were running out of guys. Everybody was fouling out.
And so the Cavs kind of misplayed it at the front and the back end of the Kevin Love situation because oh my god, could they have used Kevin Love in this debacle against the Knicks. Before we leave this bucks heat thing, let us come and praise the Miami Heat, who Jimmy Butler, 37.6 points on 60% shooting, 44% from three. Because when the calendar turns to tax day, Jimmy Butler gets a three point shot, 64% on twos, 9.6 free throws a game, six rebounds, five assists, two steals, two and a half turnovers, almost never turns them all over considering his usage, two and a half turnovers is nothing. And by the way, Guarded Ju holiday.
And then when he needed someone to guard Giannis because those were the matchups they had on the floor, I can do that. And then when he needed someone to guard Brooke Lopez down the end of game four, oh yeah, I'll do that too. We might never see a player, he's better than that from an individual player. And the Heat, Donkka Robinson, you didn't play all year, step up.
Gabe Vincent, step up. Kyle Lowry, forgotten, shell of himself. We thought we were getting a better Kyle Lowry than this. Not the same guy, but showed up, scored points when they needed it, defended really well, made shots, defended well enough that they could finagle the matchups a little bit and ways that were more favorable to them, played different sorts of lineups.
And the coaching staff, I mean, Eric Spolstra, at some point I'm gonna vote him coach of the year just so he wins, because it's a crime that he's never won. And last night, I mean, every page of the playbook came out last night. They sprung the Bam Jimmy inverted pick and roll on him at the end of the game, Bucks didn't know what hit him. Decide line out of bounds, maybe we talked about.
The corner pin downs for Jimmy Butler. At the fourth quarter, we hadn't seen a lot of those. They got bucket after bucket after bucket out of it. The weird plays where they would send Bam to the corner and have him be a Draymond style dribble handoff guy over there, Bucks were like, what is going on?
What's happening? I mean, it was like every page of the playbook came out. Everything worked. And then the other team didn't call it time out.
Any parting thoughts from either of you guys on Bucksy? No, I mean, and then you had the Tyler, no Tyler hero. No Tyler. Yeah, no Tyler hero.
I mean, like, back, like this Miami team was like a corner away from being home in the Chicago game. They were lifeless in Atlanta here. I mean, like, it's one of the more remarkable things. It's almost like Spose said, like, just get me into the tournament, right?
Just get this group in and I can figure it out how to make it work. And it's a man Kevin Love one from starter. He was coming off the bench. Like, Gabe Vincent was, you know, star and like, it's Max Drew's like, oh, listen, I Bam.
I mean, Bam was awful on the Atlanta game. How about Bam last night, a play nobody will remember. About three and a half minutes left in regulation. They were on the holiday, Giannis pick and roll on the left side of the floor.
And one of the stories of Game 4, and I wrote about this, was that we didn't see a lot of Giannis screening in the pick and roll. That was because he was hurting because they had lost faith in Middleton a little bit. But they ran that play about three and a half minutes left. Side of the floor is clear.
There's no help defender on that side of the floor in the corner. Drew turns the corner. It's not like the elbow. And Bam drops back.
It's playing two. Drew throws the lob. And Bam does the same thing Giannis did to Aiden in the finals. Jumps backwards and just gets a hand on it and knocks it off of a Bucks player.
And he also stonewalled Giannis on a couple of post-ups. Ladies and defense was phenomenal. Baseball fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events.
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Sign up for activate now. And now the old geezers like us. We get to relive Alan Houston and Jeff Band Gondia on Alonzo Morning's leg and Pat Riley. Betrayal.
Nick's Heat. The second round playoff series we also are coming. Did Nick's dispatched the Cleveland Cavaliers in five games. They were just tougher, meaner, strategically sounder.
Still don't really know why JB Picker's staff was determined to have Geline Brunson being guarded by Darius Garland until he finally went away from that. Late, the Cavs half-court offense just ground to dust. Their big men weren't quite there. Evan Mobley, love them.
Ten points a game. Eight free throws a whole series or whatever it was. I think he had eight free throws a whole series. Eight free throw attempts.
Not good enough. RJ Barrett rebounded after a bad first two games. It was just marauding picking his spots, getting out transition bullying people. Julius Randall got hurt, Ob top and stepped right in.
provided some spacing, some defensive toughness. Really great series by the Knicks. And I think for the Cavs, chalk it up to youth, right? This is our first go around.
Obviously, this nucleus of four guys everyone's really excited about. We all knew the fifth guy was going to be a question the whole year before the season. We all, everyone pinpointed like, OK, is it a quarter? He can't really shoot very well.
Is it levert? Well, he's kind of redundant. Is it ball handler? Doesn't defend very well?
Who's it going to be? Is it Dean Wade? Deane Wade disappeared? Had a shoulder injury?
Is it Lamar? Steven's old? Lamar? Steven's still on the team.
Let's try him. Jadi Osman. Danny Green. We got Danny Green.
That seems interesting. Let's do that. We all knew those were questions. The future is still bright.
I do think, and either one of you can take this, I do think it did raise some long-term questions about, there has to be a little bit more offensive creativity and variability in Cleveland. And how to engineer that is, I think, the next big step for the franchise. And maybe it's just experience in a jump shot for a mobile. I don't know.
But Bob, you want to start? I don't know. What would you take away from a cash perspective? I think it's kind of like two seasons for me.
I think it's the regular season. 51 wins the four seed after losing in twice in the plan last year compared to. So there's one. That's one there.
And it's, hey, they had a great regular season. But when you got into the playoffs, I thought they were at work. They were exposed. As you said, their half court offense was nonexistent.
If they couldn't get out and transition, they were in deep trouble. I think for me, I wrote about, so you basically have different options to look out for Cleveland, just based on, hey, you run it back, you bring Laverte back, you use your tax, a non-taxman level, and you try to see if you can get a wing in reinforcements. Hey, the Ruby of signing did not work out for them. Right?
Like he's not. He's coming off the tour, and he said, I don't know why people thought he was going to do something. And then the other guy, Ramam Lopez, Rolandetta, guys, like those guys were just supposed to be your veteran guys. That's what goes to your free agent.
I think the question, and I'm not ready to go there yet, right, is the Jarrod Allen question. Right? Like if there is a drastic move, that would be the guy. But on the other end, I'm not comfortable putting Evamobia 5.
I mean, can he be your full-time 5? Because although their offense, I think their net rating was like plus 7 when he played center this year, like, I mean, you're going to get buried off, offense are rebounding, because you're going to get buried and stuff. So there's like kind of like a balancing act here. So for me, it's like, yeah, it was a good regular season, but there's work to do.
I mean, and then the Mitchell thing, like, hey, whenever you acquire a player like that and you mortgage everything, like the clock is ticking for him. And we talked about Giannis. He's extension eligible also this offseason. Like, I don't know what the incentive, I'm just pulling up with the incentive for Donovan is here.
He can go three years, 135 million. Or he can go. Honestly, Bobby did not remember that. And they just mentioned it right now.
Yeah, so he's basically kind of the same thing. He's got a player option for 25, 26. He can extend for three years, 135 million or two for 92, 92 based on that year. Or he just play out the contract.
And you can sign for two for two. I think it's for 257 when he becomes a free agent. So there's really not much incentive for him either. But as I said, like when you make a four pick trade and give up a lot, the clock starts, right?
The clock starts as far as trying to retain him. And I do think part of figuring out the offense, and their offense was good in the regular season. It was like nine to 10th or something. In the playoffs, it didn't work.
And that was predictable. All year we talked here about how, no, no, no, no, they're going to have the spacing shooting. But part of it is also they need to find a little bit more chemistry between those two guards, a little bit more zip, a little bit more pick and roll on one side, swing at pick and roll on the other side. I thought, I thought Donovan Mitchell got a little shot happy.
Last night, there were a couple of times where he missed a lob. I think Tomowoli on the back, or maybe it was Allen that was right there. He missed a couple of kickouts, just forcing things a little bit. I think if I were them, I'd be looking around for a Chris Finch style, not for a head coach.
Remember when Chris Finch was like the assistant in Denver in New Orleans to optimize these double big lineups and as the offensive coordinator, I'd be looking around for a guy like that on my bench. But I'm not going to be too worried about the future going forward. Howard, you're a New Yorker. How about those next?
Bing freaking bong. It's astounding, incredible. Just try not coming to the next. Don't you regret not coming to the next.
I love that guy. I want that guy to come on the podcast and just say that. Maybe I can do that. I just want to do that.
I got to find that guy. Maybe it could be, don't you regret not listening to the low pole? OK, don't you? OK.
Holy moly. So I've been here for almost 20 years, 19 years, but 19 years. And of course, I covered the next on a daily basis during a time when they never actually made the playoffs. But once, so the last time I actually was in the Gordon for a playoff day was 2013.
That was that 54-win team with Carmelo. They lose in the second round to the Pacers. I've forgotten what it was like to be at a playoff game at Madison Square Garden. Because two years ago was that Hawks, they've been back.
I was not there because there were still COVID rules and it wasn't even a full building, blah, blah, blah. So this was really a Games 3 and 4. First time that the Knicks have actually been able to have a packed, fully operational, Death Star Madison Square Garden for a playoff game. It was insane.
Before they even did player introductions, it was ear splitting. My ear drums were vibrating. And not from any kind of fake crap that a lot of these arenas now do where they're just cranking up the PA. This was just crowd noise.
The very first possession of the Cavs had in that game, there were defense chants that were just vibrating the whole building. It's just different. And by the way, I know it sounds like just reductive and simplistic to say like, oh, the Cavs were young team and they were rattled. The Cavs were a young team and they were rattled.
Like you could see it in Game 3 and a little less so in Game 4, but especially Game 3. Like Evan Mobley, Darius Garland just did not know where they were, what was happening, like what planet are we even on? And that's part of it. It's part of it.
And it is part of it. They exceeded expectations this season. So I'm not gonna let the Cavs off the hook entirely. But look, there were 50-win team with a really young team that hadn't been in the playoffs.
Their first great non-Librand season in 1,000 years. And I'll credit for that. But yeah, listen, the guard was incredible. Nick's fans, I could not be happier for many of them in my life and they were do this.
And now like they were, the talk was started three days ago, four or five days ago, in fact, of well, if they get out of the series and they heater, get upset, the bucks, finals, maybe? I'm not prepared to like jump that far ahead. I think the Celtics are really good and really deep, really talented, but it doesn't, this doesn't sound like an exceptionalism type delusion right now to start speculating on having a path. It's been incredible.
And by the way, one quick just side note here. I think one of the things that's most, that's easy to love about this team, and especially of course for Nick's fans themselves, but I think anybody else could admire it. This is not a team with great star power. They don't even have a Jimmy Butler for that matter.
In terms of what's on your resume, right? Julius Randall has been an all-in-v-a player and maybe again when those results come out soon. Jalen Brunson's not gonna make it, but is at least in the conversation, but he hasn't even been an all-star. This is at least somewhat reminiscent of the Verontus outline, Vegas outline, of those Nick's teams in the 90s.
Yes, they had Patrick Ewing, but they never had the most star power. They didn't have Scotty and Michael. They were a team that just outworked you, played their asses off, made smart basketball plays were just tougher than you. Mitchell Robinson hasn't, there's nothing on Mitchell Robinson's resume.
He kicked the crap out of him, and Moby and Jared Allen. Partly because, partly because, partly because he just was tougher and stronger than those guys. That was a large part of it. You can't watch that away.
He was tougher, smarter, bigger, stronger, whatever. But also when you're blitzing the way they were blitzing Jalen Brunson because they were afraid to have him go one-on on one against Ari's garland or whatever, you're leaving your big men vulnerable on the glass because one of them is out 30 feet from the rim. I haven't even started thinking about Nixi yet. I will say that interestingly, this is the second consecutive season where a good team that I think internally was maybe more optimistic about where it was than people were externally, traded what's gonna end up being a pretty man first round pick for a reserve player in a deal that kind of was a footnote, but just sort of like, oh yeah, we should probably talk about that trade on trade deadline night.
That turned out to just be massively important and like so far outweighed the pick cost that went out. And last year it was Derek White and Boston. And Derek White has maybe been the second best player on the Celtics and sometimes the best player on the Celtics in the playoffs. And Josh Hart this year in New York.
And you look around, if you've got a little low hang and pick like that, 20, 25, whatever, you think you get a guy, you can be your sixth or seventh guy, but he's good and he's a playoff guy. I think the lesson of those two trades is go out and get that guy because the impact might be bigger than the number suggested will be than the open minute suggested will be because they are dead in the water without Josh Hart. I thought the Cavs were the team that needed Josh Hart by the way watching that series. I know, the Cavs had no picks to the problem.
I know, I know. And the beauty of it too, Zach, is that like, you don't do that deal, you're not getting Josh Hart as a free agent, right? Like that's the reality of it. You go out and you get him, he's got a player option, you can resign him, you get his bird rights, like you weren't having cap space to go out and do it.
I mean, like he had a great, I mean, the stuff I'm bonding to an article in the New York Daily News. And it was basically like, he like, I live for offensive rebounds in the playoffs because you could just feel the air out of the building when you're on the road, taking out of the life of the people there. And he had three or four last, and he gained five against Cleveland here. And man, you're right.
I mean, basically you traded a 23rd pick and cam reddish for Josh Hart. Let's go to the West and talk about the two series starting Warriors Kings. Warriors in a pretty exciting game last night, Malik Monk missed a good look in three that would have tied it at the end, but the Warriors more or less led, a lot of the second half. And finally, one on the road.
Only took a three-play, they got one. All they need to do is get one. Now they're going home where they never lose. They're up three, two.
Tough one for the Kings. The Aaron Fox got it out with a, with a, a Volcan fracture in his index finger of his shooting hand, which if I had an a Volcan fracture, a Volcan fracture, no sleep last night. So forgive my pronunciation. A Volcan fracture on the index finger of my writing hand.
I'd be like, you know what guys, I need like a DNP, couple of DNP stay. I got it in a Volcan fracture. I can't hold a pen very well. Aaron Fox is going out there and Draymon Green and other guys are like slapping at loose balls.
Well, yeah, he shot nine of 25, three of 10 from three, six to 15 from two, but they need him, scored 25 points. They need him, was a game effort. They're getting nothing out of Kevin Herder, which is a problem. And the Warriors, the shot making of Steph and Clay, the last two games in Jordan pool, in game four, phenomenal.