The low post is presented by Amazon music. Did you know you could be listening to this episode of the low post ad-free on Amazon music? And now the low post. Welcome to the low post podcast, the NBA finals are over.
The Denver Nuggets of Denver, the Nuggets are NBA champions, champions of the world, world's champions, just champions, the Miami Heat after an incredible playoff run. I think they finished 13 and 10 in the playoffs, two and seven in their last nine games, but they gave it a hell of a run a delightful time all through May and June. And now it's off season time. The world rumors are swirling.
The smoke screens have been sent in every direction to help us navigate the draft part of it, the free agency part of it, a dynamic duo, like no other, Jonathan Gavoni, how are you? I'm doing great, Zach, how are you? Bobby Marks, what's up, buddy? What's going on?
From sunny Florida, is it sunny in Florida? We've gotten the humidity has finally taken over the Southwest part of Florida, we are in human season. But I'll be in Bristol, so get, you know, I only come when it's above eight degrees, I'll make sure. Bristol, Connecticut, a top 8000 most exciting town in America, according to Bristol Magazine.
Okay, before we move on to all the buzz that's going on, I just want to take a moment. Because I don't like how fast we move. I just, it's just me, I'm a purist in this sense. The finals in the championship is the whole reason we do this.
All this buzz that we're about to get into, it's all to get where the Denver Nuggets just got for the first time in the history of their franchise. It's all now to try to compete with the Nuggets team that looks set up to be really, really good for quite a while, as long as you'll catch and marry are healthy. And Denver fans, I will knock on wood, should have a very special Denver guest on early next week. They just wanted to get through the parade.
I think is starting shortly in Denver. But before we move on, I do want to say, I just want to read some yolkage stuff. In this past playoff run, 20 games, yolkage average 30 points, 13 and a half rebounds, nine and a half assists. So very close to a 30 point triple double every single game.
Shot 55% from the floor, 46% on threes, 57% on twos, 80% on seven free throws a game. So 50, 40, 80 shooting, basically. He wound up from 79.9. For his career in the playoffs, can he get it done in the playoffs?
What is he ever accomplished in the playoffs outside of making the conference finals? For his career, 27 and a half points, 12 rebounds, seven and a half assists on 53% shooting, 41% from three. That's his career stats in the playoffs, 68 playoff games. Here are some other interesting figures.
27 and a half points per game in the playoffs is now ninth all time among every person who has played in the playoffs, minimum sum amount of games. Exactly almost one point behind LeBron James. The names above, yolkage, the eight names have averaged more points per game in the playoffs. Michael Jordan, Luke Adanchich, Allen Iverson, Kevin Durant, Jerry West, LeBron James, Devin Booker, David Mitchell.
That's it. Rebounding. He's 17th all time in rebounds per game in the playoffs. All the names above him except Charles Barkley are old timers.
Bill Russell, Wiltschamber, Bill Russell's for career rebounds per game. Take a shot. Bobby, you go first alphabet of order. What do you think Bill Russell's career rebounds per game in the playoffs is?
21.5. Gavoni? 23. Just even Gavoni wins.
24.9 rebounds per game. Wiltschamberlain, Weston sale, Bob Pettit, Walt Bell, Daniel's, Dave Cowins, Moses Malone, not quite at all time. George Mike, Nate Thurman, Elvin Aes, Elgin Baylor, Charles Barkley, Ardis Gilmore, Walter Dukes, Dolph Shays, and Yolkich. Assist, he's 19th all time.
A couple of guys above him on the list have not played very much in the playoffs. Number three and four all time assists per game in the playoffs are John Wall and Trey Young. I mean, so he's top 20 in the playoffs in scoring, rebounding, and assists. And for as much as we hear about how selfless he is, and he is, he's highest rated in scoring among all three of those categories, 27 and a half per game in the playoffs.
Player efficiency rating for those who care, and I understand some people don't. Bobby, where do you think Nicole Yokich ranks in playoff player efficiency rating for all time in the playoffs? Man, I don't know. I have a PR higher than 30.
He does not. His PR is 29.02 in the playoffs. Right at it. Yeah.
That ranks one number one in the history of basketball over Michael Jordan. Okay, so you know, look, that's not everyone's cup of tea. Wind shares per 48 minutes in the playoffs. Another advanced stat that some people like, some people don't.
Number one, Michael Jordan. Number two, George Viking. Number three, LeBron James, in a virtual tie with LeBron James and Nicole Yokich. I just want to put it in perspective.
This is the greatness that this guy is, and that we are seeing. And so then I put it to you guys, a question we had on NBA today before game five in Denver. Nicole Yokich is 28 years old. I just read you the stats.
Devony, I'll give you first crack. The question posed to us, and it's one of these sort of silly TV questions, but it's fun. It makes you think for the next five years, you own an NBA franchise for the next five years. And obviously, it's not the question does not tell you whether your franchise is currently good or currently bad, currently old, currently young, whatever.
You own a franchise. You have your choice. You can have Nicole Yokich for the next five years, or you can have any other player in the field for five years. John, think of only what is your answer to that question.
We all have the answer on TV. Now I'm making you guys do it. I'm taking Yokich because he's 28 years old, but he's only been playing basketball seriously for 10 years now. And we see the way that he's improving year after year, averaging 10 assists a game this year, shooting 41% for three.
I don't think that we've seen the best of Nicola Yokich yet. And so I'm taking him because I just be able to like, his game is not based on his athleticism. And he never gets hurt. So I think he's going to still be.
I'm knocking on the wood. I don't want anyone to get hurt. I get nervous when people play. He does seem impervious to injuries, not jumping.
I think barely jumping. I think helps. For sure. And now that he's become this like 40 plus percent three point shooter who is basically the best passer in the NBA, I mean, like you can run your whole offense for him.
He's basically a guardable. We saw that. And then the defense much improved. Like when I first started watching him, couldn't he guard a chair?
Could he guard a chair in the NBA? It was first year, he didn't play as much as he probably should have. But yeah, so he's getting better and better. And so I don't see any reason why he's not going to be like an incredibly dominant guy still when he's 31, 32, 33.
He's the best player in the NBA right now. If you can keep adding to his game, I'd definitely take your pitch all day. Mr. Marks.
The same with me. I mean, I just look at it. Hey, if I'm building a team, I can just plug in guys around him and be that there's so many good things that he does, that he's not pitching all that one thing, right? Whether it be playing point forward, whether initiating the offense, playing through him, I would take him because I can put, you know, I can put, you know, certain players around him and they all don't have to be high level caliber players here.
Welcome, play guys. I also, I thought hard about it as I tend to do and I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment, but I also took you okay to over the field for all the reasons that you guys just said, most notably his age and his continued curve that he's still, it's not even a curve, it's a diagonal straight line. Go ahead. What about the fact that there's absolutely zero bull around him?
You know, like you don't have to worry about him coming in your office in, I don't really like the city anymore. I want to get out of here. You talk to my friends in the NBA, that's what they say, that's what keeps them up at night. And that's, you know, they say, at any moment, my entire life could come crumbling down because our best player wakes up on the wrong side of the bed, comes into our office and say, trade me or else, you know, so you don't have that concern with yogic, where you do have that concern with some of these other guys that might be some of the candidates to be picked, you know, like for the next five years.
And that's a huge advantage, you know, like just the way that he sets the culture and the way that teammates gravitate to him, you know, he just looks like such a fun, awesome guy to be around. And that you, you know, you can't discount that part also. Well, as the 2019 draft class has taught us, there are other things your best players could do that would keep you up at night and have your whole life sort of unraveling a little bit. By the way, are we gonna get, are we gonna get to Friday and news dump on Jon Morant tomorrow?
Like I have not been asking the League office, like when is it coming, when is it coming? I got back, because A, I don't care about breaking it, and B, when it comes, it comes. It just felt like it was gonna come soon. And Adam said, I'm still, we're said, you know, I just don't want to announce it during the finals out of respect for the Nuggets in the heat.
Well, the finals are over. I just, I'm smelling like a 4.55 p.m. email from Mike Bass, and everyone is like heading out and then, oh, there it is. I'm smelling it, it's in the air.
Well, I think next week it would take away from the draft week, right? Like so if it's Friday, it's like 3.30, you know, 1230, right? It's not gonna be the parade. Live in the parade, Zach.
5.02 p.m. Friday, ding. Okay, so the only three players I really seriously thought about in the field are Janis, self-explanatory, Luca, self-explanatory, and four years younger than Yolkich, and Wenbin Yama. I mean, that's like, I think he has to be in the conversation, and I got pushback from Perk and RJ saying, well, he hasn't played a game in the NBA, we don't know how he is, I'm just saying.
Five years. If there's a subset of NBA executives and coaches who think he's walking in the door and has a chance to be an all-star, not a fake like the fans voted in all-star, or a K-pop band votes in in all-star, like a real actual all-star, then he's gotta be in the discussion. He just has to be. He's 18, 19 years old, whatever he is.
You could make an argument, I guess, for Tatum, Devin Booker got some love. Those were only really the three. And the way I would describe Yolkich is this, and then we'll move on, I promise. He's the best passer in the NBA.
He's the best low post scorer in the NBA. So right away, I don't think that combination of things has ever been seen before. He's an elite mid-range scorer off the catch, and off the dribble. He is a very good three-point shooter.
If you switch, you're dead. If you run him off the R keys, an incredible pump and drive, make the next pass guy. If you send a third defender flying into his vision, he's gonna make the right pass every time. That's like 10, 12 discrete offensive skills I just named.
And he's not just good at each of them, he's great at each of them. And basketball has never seen a player who is great. And remember, this all starts from being the best passer in the NBA. Not just a good passer, I just like a good four or five assists, like the best.
Basketball has never seen a guy who's great at every one of those discrete skills, and also seven feet tall, or six, 11, and huge, and just never happened before. So I think he can continue to get better. And so I took Yolkich and congratulations to the Denver Nuggets. It might have been the wildest post championship locker room I've ever been in.
I mean, they were going bananas. Everybody was offering me drinks, and I said, come on guys, I can't drink with you. I'm not on the team and I'm in public, until, and it's always the Australians. It's always from Aaron Baines to Jack White.
Jack White saw me in the locker room and he just walked by me with a bottle of champagne and said, I'm not gonna try to do an Australian accent but if you're in this locker room, you have to drink this now. And I'm like, I'm not gonna fight with Jack White. And so there was no one around. I took a swig and moved out.
The amount of cigars smoke in the air was definitely a health risk, and it was just a delightful. And Michael Malone, I saw he's wearing his stick that, your pipe and smoke it, T-shirt. He's still making cracks about the Lakers. Michael Malone is doing the championship, right.
Enough politeness, enough like faux humility. This is fun times, so congratulations to the Denver Nuggets. Either of you have any parting thoughts on the Nuggets or the finals or anything of that nature. I just thought that at the end of the day, the Murray injury in 2021 almost bought them time because we would be talking about this team if they had lost, if they were completely healthy, right.
After the Gordon trade and Murray was healthy and Porter journey didn't have any setbacks. And let's say they lose in the first round, they lose in the second round. We would be talking, oh, we're gonna have to break them up. They can't play together.
What happens with the Oak Ridge? All these different things where it almost, I don't wanna say we gave them a pass, but it just bought them time until Murray came back healthy because they basically what they got, Terry Stott's fired that one year in Portland after they beat them in the first round and then lost to Phoenix. And then last year they lose to Golden State in the first round. And we all just kept saying like, well when Murray comes back, there's gonna be their window here.
And I think that year and a half just kind of, I thought it just bought them time for this roster. The other, I'm glad we can do this because at one point I wanted to make is immediately they win. And even before they win, when they were up through one, the next set of articles and TV segments is are the Nuggets going to be a dynasty. And we can't just live in a normal world.
We have to go from one extreme, which is like everyone, like a poll panel is picking the Lakers over the Nuggets to now is this an unbeatable dynasty. And I understand the sentiment and this team is entering, will enter the league next year, barring craziness and free agency, the favorites to win the title. They could be the favorites to win the title going into the next four seasons. Like their window is that wide open.
I just, when people start doing the dynasty thing, A, I don't know what it means. And B, I just think it undersells how hard it is to win one championship. The Spurs never repeated ever famously. They won five and 15 years.
In an alternate universe where the cap spike doesn't happen, like there's a chance the Warriors have won or maybe two titles in seven or eight years. I actually think they probably get more than that, but like it's just people go right like, oh, they got a four P, it's just really, really hard to win one. And if this is the only one they get with the Oak-Hitch, that doesn't, that's not going to mean the era is necessarily a disappointment. If they don't get another one until 2027, that's totally reasonable.
In terms of, you know, you mentioned the Warriors and I'm done talking about the road to the championship and you know, the play in teams they face on that. I thought it was actually a pretty solid road all the way around. If you're talking about teams that they were quote, unquote fortunate not to see, I think in the West it's really only the Warriors, just because of Curry and the way he stresses out, he's like, oh, I'm not going to be Oak-Hitch, but I think they win that series anyway. No one else in the West that they didn't face is like, oh my God, they avoided the Clippers, who are never healthy and their guys never play.
Oh boy, I'm sure they were scared of the Clippers who they beat the hell out of every time they play. And in the East it's Milwaukee, well, you know, Janice got hurt and then they fell on their faces. And Boston, I had a conversation with a front office guy yesterday who said, oh, I still think Boston is the best team. Boston's the best team, Boston's got the best roster.
If they can only just get their sh** together and crunch time, they'll be the best team next year too. And I'm like, what point is like, this is just what Boston is, this whole like, they make it so hard on themselves, they have trouble closing games. Like maybe Tatum and Brown go out of that, they're still young, but for now, that's not, that's a feature, not a bug of the Boston Celtics. That's just who they are.
We have a lot of evidence that that's just who they are. So anyway, that's my nugget stick. Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service.
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Geboni, now we turn to your time of the year. The mock draft. Starting at the top, congratulations to Andrew Sharp for the Tweet of the Year, my friend Andrew Sharp, who, upon the reports from Wojestray, that the wizards in Bradley Beale are working on potential trades, which you will get to, tweeted earnestly, so earnestly that he actually fooled so well-meaning people that I know something to the fact that I know the Spurs love when be, but when a name like Bradley Beale becomes available, you'd have to think pop at least thinks about moving the number one pick. And there were some people were like, yes, this is ridiculous.
No, he's not serious. He's a Wizards fan, having fun. So I think we can skip the number one pick, Geboni. The drama, and boys are a lot of drama at the top.
The drama starts with Charlotte at number two, and then Portland at number three, with Brandon Miller and Scoot Henderson being the names there. Tell me the latest intel from Charlotte, because I know you've got some. So both Scoot Henderson and Brandon Miller worked out this week in Charlotte. And Scoot Henderson definitely was the better of the two, I was told, in terms of the conditioning level, in terms of just the explosiveness.
And Scoot Henderson in many ways is built for a one on zero workout. I mean, when you see him like he's not tall, but he's jacked. And he's so explosive with the way that he changes gears. And he just punishes the room every time.
And he's a very good measuring shooter. I mean, people criticize Scoot for his lack of perimeter shooting and all that. He was not a great three point shooter this year. He shot 32, 33% in the G League.
But he's got a good measuring chain. And so I think I don't know that that moves the needle entirely for Charlotte. I'm told that Brandon Miller's still ahead there, but it's not like 100%. And we have this kind of elephant in the room out there with ownership situation.
Like what if we get some news here in the next few days that something that it's finalized? And then will there be another voice there that wants to have a say in who they draft? And so that's kind of the unknown with a week to go. I do think it'll be Mitch Koczak making the pick.
And they've done all the work. But there's still some unknowns out there. And I think Scoot Henderson gave himself a better chance of being the number two pick with what he did this week in Charlotte. The Blazers pick at number three after moving up a couple of spots in the lottery.
And obviously what they do to some degree interacts with the future of Damian Lillers. But I guess I would start with this. And either one of you can answer, but Gavoni, this is more in your wheelhouse, I think. How, and again, this is smokescreen season.
It's very hard at this point to discern the truth from the half truth. How much does Portland care who's there at three and who Charlotte takes? Is there room for maneuverability between those two teams? If there's one team definitely wants player X and the other team definitely wants player Y.
How much does Portland care? I haven't asked them that question directly, but I just, I don't think it, you know, they're in a great spot because they'll just take, you know, whoever is left there between Henderson and Miller. So I don't see why they need to, you know, put assets on the table here to move up because I think that they really like Brandon Miller and they really like Scoot Henderson and they'll be really excited, you know, for either of them to be there. And contrary to, you know, what people think, if the draper tonight, they're making that pick, you know, unless something crazy comes up, you know, some type of trade that you just can't say no to, by this stage, they haven't had, you know, anywhere near that level of conversation, you know, to get their value for that pick.
And you know, I mean, you very rarely have a chance to get that type of talent, like a Brandon Miller or Scoot Henderson in Portland. And so they're just not going to pass up on that unless, you know, something absolutely incredible comes out of thin air, which, you know, doesn't appear the case right now. Yeah, I think some teams that have players that they're interested in have kind of turned their noses up at the idea of a package of Simons in number three. And I wonder how much of that is at least semi-postering because I asked a lot of people a very simple question yesterday, a lot of people around the league.
You know, normally there's a cliff between number one and everything else. And we overvalue draft picks for the most part, although the top five are pretty valuable. I asked, is this number three pick given that it could be Scoot, could be Brandon Miller? Is it more valuable than the average number three pick?
And the answer was almost universally, yes. On Simons, every team would want sharp over Simons. The blazers are keeping sharp as far as I know. I have not heard any, that's almost, no one's untouchable untouchable, but that's pretty close.
I haven't loved Simons, like he's an undersized guard who's been a very poor defender at both point guard and shooting guard. And he's signed for three more years at good money. But I also think like, I think people are under rating Simons a little bit if that's all they see. Like that guy is a legit really good pull up three point shooter.
Like one of the best in the league, catch and shoot and pull ups. He's a really good offensive player. His contract is 24 million next season, 26 of the year after, 27 and a half year after that. Like that's not a 50 million dollar Albatross.
That's actually not a terrible contract. Like I think, I'm not saying they're moving that package. I'm not saying, I'm just saying, like I think the teams that are turning their nose up at that package are either posturing a little bit or kind of not maybe thinking all the way through. Bobby, does that make any sense?
No, it makes a totally sense. I mean, I'm looking at it right now. I mean, it's 18% of salary cap, which is certainly well below where some of these where these other numbers are. I think, I think for me, what Portland is, is that, and I've said this all along, is that, you know, do something to appease Damian Lillard or do you do something that protects you in the future with three and Shane and Sharp and kind of go in that direction.
Because who's to say you're from that, Damian Lillard says, now I want out, right? Like, and I think that's the balancing act that the Trailblazers go have. And I think you go into the draft and if it's Scoot Henderson and he's the best available, you take him and then you figure it out later. But I do think, yeah, I do agree with his act that basically turning your nose up at, you know, three and Anthony Simon is like, you know, he's a bucket getter.
He can go out and get your points and stuff like that. So, but for me, Portland, I've got them. That's the team I've got circle as far as where, what direction we go here and what's the fallout, right? What's the fallout if they stay at three and, you know, and take another young player?
So I think there's an, the general theory of Portland is that you can either use the pick, like take the Henderson, let's say, or Miller, you either take that player or, and taking that player means you have to trade the middle of you have sent Damian Lillard to signal that, yes, you are going to have to play with a lot of young guys and know we are not necessarily competing for a title. And those two things are untenable. You either trade the pick and keep the middle of the or use the pick and trade the middle of the. I actually don't think it's that simple and I think Portland to Jonathan's point could try to thread the needle of, no, this prospect is too good.
This opportunity is too rare. We moved up in the lottery just to get this opportunity. We tanked another end of the season for the second year, just to get this opportunity and the prospect is actually that good. But we still love having Damian Lillard around.
He's the greatest blazer of all time. He's had just came off the best season of his career. We can maybe resign, probably resign Jeremy Grant, maybe work some other kinds of trades and, you know, put a pretty good team out there and hope to catch some breaks next year. Like I think there is a middle path that I think the blazer certainly think is accessible to them and would not necessarily alienate Damian Lillard, but what do you make of that?
I think Damian Lillard would be okay with whatever direction they win in, especially making the pick. I mean, he's a basketball junkie. He's in there every morning at every pre draft workout. He studies players around the league.
He studies prospects. He studies the salary cap, like he knows trade value. And so like I think he understands that like there isn't a trade out there right now that makes sense for them from an organization standpoint. And so I think the idea that they're going to make that pick at number three and Damian is going to storm into the office and next morning and demand a trade, that's completely false.
I mean, that's totally overblown. And I think he wants to be important in long term and he also wants to win. And so it's on them to try and do both at the same time, like you said. And there's a pathway there to being a lot better next year.
Sharp makes another step and free time makes another step. Two hundred senior brain in the middle, whoever it is, at three, they make the right signings and they have a number 23 pick. They make a couple of trades. I mean, I think they're right there in contention for making the playoffs.
The West is open enough where that's available to them, especially if Lillard has the kind of season that he had this past year. So yeah, I don't, I think it's totally overblown. You know, there's something that he's going to ask out and he wants him to just trade the pick for, you know, 80 cents on the dollar. Well, John, he made it when he did that interview on Showtime and he's a, he knows the land, later land.
I mean, he's as smart as it comes and he said, listen, if I get traded somewhere, like what's to say, like based on everything that team has to give up, I'm walking into a better situation. Like that's the, you know, that's the beauty of it that he could be going somewhere and he might be there and be like, man, I had a pretty good Portland. You know, I had a better roster in Portland than what I had in New York or, you know, or, you know, Miami or one of those teams. So that's something to certainly consider there.
And I do think Western conference teams simultaneously view Denver as a juggernaut and also view the rest of the conference is pretty muddled. Like what's the future of the Warriors? I think they'll probably keep the band together, but we'll talk about them later. What's the future of the Clippers?
Like those dudes don't play. They don't play. So if their representatives walk in Lawrence Frank's office this summer and Trent Ren's office and say, hey, how about the four year max extension? How does that, how does that conversation go?
Does Lawrence Frank have a garbage can next to his desk to vomit in on demand? Phoenix, people came away from that Denver series and they were the only team that went more than a game off Denver in the playoffs. But you got this Chris Paul thing floating in the air. I have no idea what to make of these.
Like could they get hardened to Phoenix? That seems like somewhat unrealistic to me. And the depth is what it is. Like I don't.
And by the way, it hasn't gotten tons of attention because he's Kevin Durant and he was incredible in the first round against the Clippers. This is the second year in the playoffs in a row where I thought that in the Denver series and then in the Boston series the year before back when the Brooklyn next existed as a basketball team of three superstars. The second year in a row that I thought Durant looked kind of uncomfortable when faced with a really big physical team. Like that we're able to knock him off his spots a little bit and just create a lot of turnovers and make his looks just uncomfortable and difficult.
I just don't sense a lot of like super duper fear of the Suns amid the Western Conference of Lakers. We'll see it. So anyway, that's the game analysis that I have. That I think we can stop the mock draft there for a second because a lot of the same teams that I think would try to trade for Damian Lillard if you were available are the same bucket of teams that I think will try to trade for Bradley Beale.
And Wojiport yesterday that the Wizards under Michael Winger and Mark Bartlestein, Bradley Beale's agent, are planning to slash are cooperating on if the trade is the end game. Let's find a place. And of course the Wizards have to do that because they inexplicably gave Bradley Beale a no trade clause as part of his contract that pays him $46.7 million next year, 50.2 the next season after that 53.7, 57.1 Bradley Beale's last four seasons, 57 games, 60 games, 40 games, 50 games, he has shot from three in those seasons, 35%, 35%, 30% and 36.5%. In two of those seasons he did average over 30 points a game because he shot the lights out on twos.
It's a big contract. I said probably a year ago, maybe to you Bobby on this podcast that there is a large division among league executives about how to value that contract and the Lillard contract because they're so big and so new. We haven't seen contracts that big. Some executives will tell you, yeah, those guys are really good players.
Like Bradley Beale's made an LNBA team. They'll get real value for them. Other executives will tell you they should be happy just to get off the contract. Ryan Winhorse echoed that yesterday by saying on TV that people are going to end up being surprised by how quote unquote little the Wizards get back.
I think the truth is somewhere in between. I think they'll get real value for him, but it's obviously not going to be like a blow away package of stuff. I do think he's going to get traded. If you ask me to predict it right now, I think he's going to get traded.
This is the most real it's ever been. I'm sure there is part of the Wizards that is saying to themselves, well, this guy loves being here. How many stars you ever love being here? He's really good.
Maybe not. He's not first or second team All-Imba player has made an all-star game. He's made one all-star team since 2019, so he's not like knockout amazing, but he's really good. We have some interesting young players.
We own, I think, all but they own one future graphics somewhere. Is that a good New York? New York. Well, we own a lot of our picks.
Maybe there's a universe where we can bring back Kuzma, bring back Puzenga, bring back Puzenga, bring back Puzma, bring back Puzenga, bring back Puzma, bring back Puzenga, bring back. We'll make a couple of trades. We're competitive and Bradley's happy because Bradley wants to win. That seems unlikely to me and unlikely to happen on the timetable that Bradley Beale will accept.
So I am going, as of now June 15th, I'm expecting Bradley Beale to get traded and maybe very soon. Bobby, what is your assessment of the current Bradley Beale situation? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think certainly with the Puzengas and the Kuzma options coming up, I think it's the 21st for both.
And I think the likelihood is that one ops in, which would be Puzengas and one ops out, which is Kuzma. And I think the likelihood is that the appetite to bring Kuzma back in a high number basically would probably set the wheels in motion for Beale to look at this roster and be like, maybe now is the time. We start to get this going here. I looked at it and I went on NBA today on Wednesday and put up some fake stuff.
Some more salary dumps, as you mentioned, some executives believe. So what does a salary dump mean? Does that mean if James Harding goes elsewhere, would Philly give them the bias Harris in a future first, right? Like in 2030.
That's my, yeah, that's my, that's my, that's my, that's my, I almost, you know, certainly we talked about the heat with, um, with Hero and Duncan Robinson and they've got, they've got some ones to move in there. Um, I almost equate, you know, we went through it in Brooklyn in 2012 and Joe Johnson was an older player than Bradley Beale, but, you know, we traded, you know, expiring contracts in a future one. I think it was a pick swap that actually turned out good for Atlanta because it, you know, got him like the 15th pick and draft. That's kind of how I look at it.
I think it's going to be hard to kind of check all the boxes as far as draft pick, young player, um, expiring contracts there. So you're almost, you're trying to get somewhere in the middle here. And I think, listen, we're going to be talking about these new collective bargaining agreements rules for a long time here. If there's a team that can debunk the system, it's probably the heat, right?
That can kind of infiltrate the second apron and have out of bio, um, butler and Beale and then figure out everything else. It's the Miami heat. I like the word use the word infiltrate like, like they're like they have an attack plan. I don't know.
Star Wars in me when I was saying that it made me think of the photo, the famous photo of Andy Ellisburg, their GM and cab guru blocking the entire heat roster from entering the nuggets locker room after Yokech deck, Marquis Morris two seasons ago. Never that photo of like it's like Andy Ellsberg and single handedly like freaking Vigo Mortensen in order the rings single handedly stopping and offensive. Um, Jonathan, any initial deal thought you want to get before I start going hog wild on trades? Not really just, you know, talking to teams, you know, after the news came out, it's just, it's a lot of money and it's very hard to put together a trade.
And so it's a complicated situation and, and people echoed with body said, like they don't necessarily think they're going to get this incredible haul, you know, that, um, that we've seen for other, you know, major stars in the past. Oh, they're not going to get an incredible haul on the level. Like forget the like to demand go bare whatever comps you want there. That's not going to happen.
So, um, rarely do we get to this stage in a trade and I just keep coming back to one team. Now, we can go through the other teams and there are a lot of them. The heat deal just writes itself. It's just, it's too easy.
By the way they, they, they, um, change the protections on that pick. They owe the thunder. They can now trade three first, not saying they would trade all three, but they can. And you just kind of pick two of hero Robinson, Lowry to get to the salary and you're done.
And I, and you could, you could argue that I think hero, if I'm watching and I want hero in the trade, I'm not taking just Lowry and Robinson. If I Miami, I might want hero plus Lowry to be the deal because if I keep dunking Robinson, maybe I can just sort of finagle this thing. We're like, okay, now I've got a shooter who reproved himself in the playoffs. I don't have to resign.
Struce as a result, because as you said, Bobby, they're over the tax in that scenario with just Butler, Bam, Robinson, Beel, Yovitch, Oladipo, who's going to pick up his option, Kayla Martin, Hay, Hay Smith, who I always just say Hay Smith for some reason, high Smith and, and they're picked. They're already over the tax. And so bringing back both through St. Vincent puts them into the apron, lead apron territory, bringing back one really gets them there.
So that, that's, that deal just kind of writes itself. And yeah, you're going to kind of be in roster building prison with Beel, Butler and Bam, although that's when Bam signing that max, that, you know, lower max after your rookie scale contract kind of comes back to help you. I just, I haven't, we can go through the Warriors, the Bucks, the, the, the Sixers, the Celtics, who I don't really think are going to get into this. I think the Kings are a team to watch.
The Knicks, you will run your fake trades. I just, it's just right, the Miami one just writes itself. No, you're right. I mean, I think the Robin, you know, the swabbing, um, Lowry, um, for, for Robinson makes sense just being his time.
Like, we're already, we're already knee deep in it, right? Now, like I would rather have Duncan Robinson than a guy in a veteran minimum. Like that's the reality. It's certainly for the following year, because he's got a partial in 2024, 25.
It's the cleanest, um, you know, in that, in that perspective compared to some of these other ones where, you know, even like, I went through like New York, right? Like, in like, let's just say, you know, we just give them, as I said, like just expiring and it's not R.G. Barrett and stuff like that. But still, even if you're the Knicks, man, your salaries are starting to come up there, right?
Like eventually you got to, you got to extend quickly and you still have Josh Hart, who could become a free agent. Um, it adds, it certainly starts to add up. And I think either it's going to be a team that has already two max guys. And as I said, we'll figure out how to work around this or it's got to be a team that's got like, you know, three guys making 20 to 25 million there.
And this would be your one, um, your one max guy, like, like Houston, for example, based on how all their style, not saying B on Houston, but just saying like, you know, how the salaries are constructed. I actually, you know, New York, New York has, is, makes a lot of sense. Just in terms of Barrett plus salary filler, plus they have all the picks and obviously they would really negotiate hard over which and how many and it's not going to be the amount that they offer for Don of the Mitchell. They clearly need another offensive creator off the dribble.
That's, that's known. You know, like there's, Jalen Brunson only has two years before he's a free agent again. Like you could remake your team. I think they're one of keep Jalen Brunson obviously.
Is he, what does he become extension? Oh, Bobby, after next season? Next. Yeah, this would be year two of four.
So after next season, that's an interesting conversation for down the line. I just don't know if the money is just so big that I don't know if that's, I like the theory of could we get him for half the price that we would have been given up for Don of Mitchell and get similar level production for a couple of years and just sort of try to level up another level for a couple of years and figure it out later. If it's not working, I like that. I haven't heard a lot of buzz.
Not sure Michael winger in the new Whiz regime really like Barrett that much. Philly, you mentioned they got the hard and thing. That's got to resolve itself first. And then like it's Tobias Harris and what?
Yeah. Because if I'm the Sixers, I cannot trade Tyree Smaxie for Bradley Beallop. So I can't do it. I can't do it.
That guy's a big game player. Bradley Beallop had some big games. I thought he was impressive early in his career in the playoffs. Had some big games against the Hawks in the Celtics in 2017.
We just haven't seen him on that stage in quite a while. So I don't know what the Sixers path is. The Bucks, Wendy said on TV today, the Bucks are in it in the thick of it. I haven't heard it quite to that extreme, but I do think- I just don't like you look at Milwaukee.
Like, I mean, certainly outside of Giannis and outside of, you know, through Holiday, like how are you getting the numbers there, right? Like that's kind of the challenge there unless it's Chris Middleton, right? Unless Middleton is opting in and then you're basically putting a package around him and then figuring out what, you know, what the draft pick. It wouldn't surprise me if the Bucks shook things up a little bit this summer.
And I don't know what that means. Just wouldn't surprise me. I totally unrelated to this and just complete wild two guys over a beer in the playoffs. After a game, spitballing a trade, one guy, one guy who was at our group pitched the trade that I just haven't stopped thinking about since since.
I think about it like five times every day. Drew Holiday for Carl Anthony Town straight up. Bobby Marks? I would do that if I was Minnesota.
The only two of them I would do it if I'm Minnesota for sure. I don't think I'm doing it from Milwaukee. Tim Connolly went hard after Drew Holiday and Denver. That trade is the kind of trade that makes both teams sick to their stomach, which means it's like kind of reasonable.
Again, this is not a thing that I've heard any tell of of anything like that. I just kind of like it as a concept because I do think we got to talk about Carl. We got to have the cat side, but no. I do think Kat in a new place with a clear alpha guy.
And I don't necessarily mean personality. I mean, like this guy is just better than you and you can't debate it and it's his team and he runs the team and you're the new guy. I think he would look incredible in some scenarios like that. I just, I saw the Pat Beverly podcast where he said when he hangs up his sneakers, he's going to be regarded as someone who changes the game and reiterated for the 17th time that he's the greatest shooting big band ever.
And sometimes, sometimes I just, you just got to bag it. You just got to pass on the opportunity to talk about how you change the game. And it's not just that the Wolves have a one of playoff series with Carl Anthony Towns. It's that because they've been a tire fire for a long time.
Coaches, GMs, bad trades, bad draft picks, bad signings. It's that Carl Anthony Towns in half his playoff games has just not been good. And now I do think his last three games in this, in this first round long forgotten, his last three games, he got, he scored 70 points. So like 23 to 24 game on 24 of 43 shooting and was a problem for the Nuggets.
I thought he maybe can build off those three games. He did foul out of the last two, which is just an endless, I just, can we just like, stop? First, no one's arguing about your shooting, Billy. No one, you're arguing with ghosts.
Second of all, I just, before you start talking about the way you've changed the game, can you A turn 30 and B win a playoff series? That's all, that's all I'm asking. I don't have any other thoughts. I like that trade though.
No walker, you're right. It's complicated. Warrior. You're back old and stay, right?
You're bad. Yeah, you're good about going to stay. So it's great. Does pool, hate in and for whatever gets you, you know, whatever gets you.
Come in, go. It's gotta be coming. Yeah. If they're getting anybody, it's gotta be coming.
I mean, they might want to, they might want to, you know, also. I'm not going to do that. It's gotta be coming. And it's depressing if I'm a Warriors fan that I still believe in coming.
I understand that there was a lot of sulking and pouting and the minutes went up and down and like that made people there unhappy. I think he's young and good and does stuff on the court that's really hard to find. And I would certainly take a flyer on him from my team. I understand why the Warriors would be like, wait a second, wait a second.
The great double track program would end with Gary Payton the second and our other guys to throw in in the Bradley Bealt, not throw in, but part of a Bradley Bealt raid and then Moody, who's a good, nice role player probably that the team trusts. It's not awesome. I also just like Steph plus Beel plus Clay. To me, that's not the fit.
To me, the salary just, it's too big of a salary for me to make that to move if I'm the Warriors. That's just my take. Any other thoughts on them? No, that's a good point.
I mean, you know, I mean, that's almost like the pool pieces, you know, like, is that who you want to use it on? That's like that combination of salaries you just mentioned comes like $3 million short of Beel salary, which is not, you can still make the trade, but that $3 million for the Warriors that you're adding on is like, I think $9 million when you factor in the Repeater penalties. Sacramento, herder, Holmes and Monk get you to get you to just barely enough salary and I got to throw in a pick or something. It's not crazy.
Is it crazy? How much does that actually help your team? Putting two shooting guards in it for one. Both of whom had fantastic years for you.
One of whom had a shaky playhouse and the other from what's pretty awesome in the playoffs. Does that help your team that much? What does that do for Washington? I mean, at some point, they're just going to say, we're just going to wait, you know, like, let's wait until the season starts and somebody gets hurt and people start feeling pressure for their jobs.
And that's when you could, you know, get somebody to make a better trade than that. I don't, you know, I just don't understand. I mean, how many picks are in it, I guess, from Sacramento side? Well, they owe one still to the Hawks, right?
Yeah, next year, 2024 protected. Yeah, right. Maybe that doesn't do enough for either team. I've just been told, watch out for Sacramento.
Vivek is in Monaco. Sorry, Vivek is in Canada yesterday watching Victor Winbanyama. What does that mean? So herder Holmes and Monk for the number one pick is that was your suggestion?
Maybe instead of Brad Biel. I was just surprised by that. He must be on vacation or something. Let me just go watch like a really good basketball game.
What were we talking about the Kings? Bob, you wanted to say something about the Kings? No, I mean, I think for what it does for Wizards is it, you know, you got a guy on a, you know, making 16 million, basically a third of what Biel makes in herder. And you know, it basically just, I think a lot of it's just about getting that big number off, you know, off your books here and stuff like that.
I mean, the one thing that was, you know, certainly thrown at me yesterday was like, what happens in Toronto? Does he make sense in Toronto? And I'm like, I don't know, you know, like that's, you know, that's, you know, what would it take for you to get to that number with the Raptors? I also got that same buzz in Toronto.
There's just so many balls in the air for Toronto with hurdles free agency, Gary Trans option, OGN and Obie's extension, see, Occam's, like they're just too much, Van Vliet's free agency. I can't even keep track of what's going on in Toronto. It's too much. So the other sub lot of this, and then I promise we'll get back to the draft going.
If poor Zinga's opt in and becomes a $36 million expiring contract, I actually think he'll have pretty good trade value because I do think we might see a run on trades that will not be allowed in two years by teams that are over the second apron now and can aggregate salaries now and will not be able to in two years. By the way, it's June 15th. No CBA. Still teams are starting to get a little impatient with like, can we see the goddamn thing?
Is it done? No, it's almost there. Well, the draft is in a week. Do any of you have any poor Zinga's destinations that you like?
I thought Indiana, you know, I mean, that's a, you know, just because they've got some buffer in room and they've got some spare parts. They do have a bolo to draft picks, whether it be the two, two later ones in late in late twenties there and they're certainly in need at the, you know, they can go four or five and they might even address that where they're picking there. I thought the Pacers could be a team to potentially take a flyer on him. I like it.
I don't know how he fits with my listener, but maybe that's, maybe that's besides the point. Can I give you guys a few? Of course. All right.
So just assume Toronto's included in all of these and we'll just leave Toronto to the side. The Clippers are going to be that I would, if there's another trade that I'm certain is going to happen, it's that the Clippers are going to aggregate two of like the Powell, but the two more is coming to contracts for a player. Of course, this person gets me that for to get, get, get, put some spacing around PG and go why? And you know, I don't think that necessarily means you're moving on from Zubots, but you have two centers.
That's fine. I think that's kind of interesting fit. Chicago's a wild card to me, depending on what happens with which of it could Bobby, is this legal could Portland do like nurkage plus little plus sign and trade one of Thiebel and who the hell is the other for you reddish plus draft compensation for poor's, I guess yeah, you could do that. I mean, you could, you could do, you know, add that up, you know, get the, the one of those two reddish or thibles number out there to make it work.
And then you just got to figure out the draft compensation because you still, oh, actually, because you still owe the bulls that pick from that was a liren and straight from a few years ago. So you've got to figure out that part of it. But they've said, Joe Cronin has been out front saying that if, hey, if there's ever a trade out there, we'll, you know, we'll just a compensation. So that's, you know, that's certainly legal.
I like that fit a three point shooting center with name. I thought about the Hawks and we'll get back to them, but they have a Kong who kind of is the air parent, I think, at center. Boston, some interesting possibilities. My favorite one, I'm not saying I think it's going to even going to ever be discussed, but Cleveland coming off kind of a, you know, like kind of the offense kind of the bed, playoff run.
And we don't know if Evan Mobley is ready to play center. We kind of want to take another leap now and Jared Allen had a disappointing playoffs and, you know, can we pay all four of these guys going forward? Is there a deal built around like Jared Allen plus salary filler for poor zingas? I kind of like that.
You can get there. I mean, you have, you know, Allen, um, osmond, Dean, wait, you know, like numbers like that. They've got a bunch of seven million dollars, these seven million dollar guys to get there. I also thought about New Orleans because they have the Balanchinos and dance pieces and, you know, there's a lot of balls in here there.
That brings us back to the draft. Mr. Gavoni, there's been a lot of buzz about the Pelicans trying to move up into the top three to get scoot Henderson. That has lent itself to a lot of buzz about, wait a second, how are they getting there?
Can't be all draft picks. Does that mean the pig fellow who's played a hundred games and changed in four years? Could he be made available? What is your latest intel on the Pelicans and their intentions?
I've been told New Orleans is not trading Zion at no interest in trading Brandon Ingram. And I'd be very surprised if anything ended up happening there at two or three. You know, they were the number one team in the West last year when Zion went down with the injury, you know, if he's healthy, which he rarely is, but when he's healthy, he's easily one of the best players in the NBA. So I don't, yeah, I just, I don't see it happening.
And I don't even know, yeah, so I was pretty much shot down to me, you know, as a possibility as Zion to Charlotte. Or Portland, either. Or Portland. They haven't even spoken with Portland, you know, so, yeah, I think, um, yeah, I think New Orleans has made some calls, you know, just to say, Hey, what, you know, what it would take to get to one?
What would it take to get to two? But I don't think it went, what would it take to get to one is like the Saints. Um, he's the call was that NBA teams make, you know, just to say, Hey, what would it take? You know, not or making you an offer, but I would love to be on that call.
No, no, no, I would actually say, so here's what it would take. The Saints. The Vince Lombardi trophy from a few years ago, which is probably not even a few years ago anymore because I'm old. One vintage paper bag from the time we're in the Saints were the aunts.
The super dome. I don't know, probably more. Um, that's interesting because I don't, I don't know, I don't know what to make of that because Houston was always the team that made the most logical sense of like, what the hell, we've got a lot of assets like trade something for Zion and be relevant and pop, pop the market a little bit. But they're only four.
Like they, they, that doesn't get you into scoot range or scoot to target. You can do things with four, but I don't think you can get up to three or two Houston and Detroit are sitting at four and five and there. I, that's where like the draft trade, it doesn't stop there. Like there could be movement there, but that's where you start hearing the Thompson twins.
People have them mocked a little lower than that. Are they just, is the latest that those seems just going to stay put or is there still like buzz that they could maneuver around a little bit? I haven't heard a ton coming out of Detroit or Houston. I mean, I think the assumption is that both teams want to be good next year and they would explore, you know, trade scenarios that, you know, got them, you know, some veteran pieces that, you know, you know, help them win games next year, but there's not, you know, there's just not a lot of teams around the league where they're looking to offload those type of guys and you're not just going to give away the number four, number five picks.
So it's hard to find, you know, like the right, the right pieces in a trade is my understanding. They're very valuable picks and I don't know that teams are offering, you know, really, really good players off the roster for, because nobody wants to take a step back, you know, like a man Thompson is an incredible talent, can't win more super talent, but you're not going to be good, you know, like building your team around a man Thompson next year. So it's like, what is that, you know, who really wants to take that huge step backwards? There's just, it's a very small list.
There was another, there is a, not a man of mystery, but a man of rising and kind of all over the place, Drasstalk that you want to talk about that is currently mocked in your latest mock draft on Yes, man dot com to the Thunder at number 12. And that's Kobe Buffkin. Tell me about Kobe Buffkin and tell everyone listening what you are hearing about Kobe Buffkin. Yes, Kobe Buffkin is a sophomore from Michigan, but he's actually a younger than a lot of the freshmen in this draft, a younger than Jerry's Walker, younger than Hichofino.
He's younger than the Thompson twins and Brandon Miller. And he finished off the year in a pretty spectacular way. The last 12, 14 games of the season in the Big Ten, when Michigan really finally put the ball in his hands, he did some very, very impressive things. The average, you know, 19 points, five rebounds, three assists were getting shot the box extremely well, 47% for three in that time.
And then you look at the bill, he's six foot five and a half, six, eight wingspan, 187 pounds, and he is just a tenacious, tenacious defender. And people are starting to, you know, as the process has gone around, gone along, you know, he's interviewed extremely well. Everybody's looking for that type of guard who is, you know, tough, versatile, not ball dominant, high character, you know, 19 years old, has upside as a shooter and as a ball handler. And everybody's tried to get him on their books, bring him in for a workout.
And pretty much people have run into a brick wall there. Nobody's really been able to get him in their gym. He had some workouts scheduled, you know, earlier on with New Orleans, with Atlanta, with Utah, 14, 15, 16, all of those were canceled. And you know, even some teams ahead of them have been unable to get him in their gym.
So now the thought process is does Kobe Buff can have a promise? So does somebody shut him down? Does he know where he's going? Why can nobody get Kobe Buff can in their gym?
The only thing that they've seen of him is this pro day that he had in Los Angeles, where, you know, everybody says he was very, very impressive and he really helped the standing, you know, it's the pro day you take with a grain of salt, but the buzz out of that pro day was very, very strong. And now he's starting to hear his name at Washington at eight, Utah at nine Orlando 11. Okay, see, 12 strongly in Toronto at 13. And you know, the question now is like, where are they trying to maneuver him to?
You know, what are the teams in that range that, you know, have a big opening in the back court, you know, like you look at Washington for sure, Utah, definitely the Raptors for sure. So, you know, that's kind of one of the, you know, the mini storylines that I'll be watching on draft night is where is Kobe Buff can going to end up? Well, in Oklahoma City, just going back from my days in Brooklyn, man, they have a tracker could have promising guys, you know, represented by Wasserman and you know, was it worked and what? Okay, okay, see, but okay, see, says we haven't made anybody get this guy or either.
We don't have a medical on there. Yeah, I mean, Mitch McDarry basically went and he was like, was in the witness protection program for a home on and Reggie Jackson was a guarantee. So like, yeah, I mean, if the thunder and the same boat as everyone else, then you can totally, you can totally understand it from their perspective. Cam, I mean, there's a long line of guys that you poke a chef ski that everybody had a promise from Oklahoma City, you know, and so.
I have a Pokemon a couple months. Thanks for bringing a Pokemon back into my life. I had a couple, I thought, I thought, who's all right, last year? I mean, in phases, every time you say Kobe Buffkin, my brain, and this will date me, thinks of the old animatronic Teddy Bear toy, Teddy Ruxpin.
Every time you say Kobe Buffkin, I think of Teddy Ruxpin for the older listeners. Yeah, I don't see it being Oklahoma City because they have their starting back court in place already, you know, Josh Gideon, Shago, this Alexander. Those guys aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I could see his camp targeting one of these teams with a wide open back court where he can go in and his value, you know, if he hits is as a big point guard, you know, and so he's going to need to have some freedom to make mistakes and have opportunity and the thunder, you know, very excited roster, but they're pretty stacked right now with young talent.
I didn't have research. Just popped into my head right now. I wonder if either of you guys know off the top of your head. Is there a famous example of a broken draft day promise?
Oh, was it was a Richard Lewis maybe or I don't want to throw any of the bus? Because that's awkward. There are definitely there are definitely times where teams have made promises, not thinking that another guy would be on the board and then that guy's on the board and they have a moment of like, whoa, well, we made the promise. We got to take the guy.
We promise. We kind of want the other guy, but we got to take the guy. We promise. That's the danger.
That's the danger. I mean, we promised, I mean, I'm really going to date back here. We promised Zorn Plunnage, I think in 2002 or 2003 and man, you put yourself in an awkward position. If a trade comes about or if there's a guy on the board that you love and that's falling all of a sudden falling and you're staring at him as far as what you do.
And I always say is that you burn the agent and we'll come back and get you somewhere down the road. Teams are very reluctant to promise guys at any point in a draft. There are a lot of players that withdraw the deadline who said, hey, would you promise to be a two way? Would you promise me you would take me in the 40s?
Would you promise me like an undrafted roster spot? And teams are just, they don't want to box themselves in. You just don't know who's going to follow their, what trades are available. And so it's just very hard.
Everybody's got a promise at the time of year, but it's very, very rare in actuality. There are no backsees is what you're telling me in the NBA promise game. No backsees. A couple other teams.
The next team in line is Orlando. Orlando has number six and number 11 courtesy of the Bulls and a lot of cap space. And I think finally has reached the stage where they would like to win more basketball games next year. They were a 500 team basically over the last 50 games.
So I think their goal is going to be the playoffs next year. Six and 11 looks like it gives you a lot of optionality like they can package it and move up or they can package it for a veteran. It's not quite as powerful a combination as I think it maybe it looks on paper, but is there any Orlando is like a black box dating to last year when people didn't know who the number one pick was going to be until it was made. Is there any Orlando buzz of any kind?
I mean, I think that there's the thought that the number 11 pick is attainable, but at the same time, if you look at the tiers of the draft, it's right around 11 that it starts to break down. And so I don't think they're going to do anything before they see before they're actually on the clock and they see who's available to them. You know, you could a guy like Grady Dick from Kansas, you know, six foot seven, you know, probably the best shooter in the draft could very well be there at 11. And you know, what does it take to get there?
I'm not sure. And you know, what pieces from their roster are available with trades. So I don't, I don't know. I mean, we always talk about trades and they're going to be by the end of trades and then they very rarely materialize it, you know, like, especially in the lottery.
I mean, there'll be a lot of trades like the back half of the first round. Every pick in the second round will be traded like 17 times. But in the lottery, I don't know how many trades they're actually going to see. Indiana comes in at seven.
They also have 26, 29 and 32. That's a lot. I've heard teams have called Indiana trying to get seven, but I don't think there's been any traction there. And those back end first round picks, there are some teams who, like you said, the draft kind of falls off at a level, wherever you think the draft falls off right there, some teams who kind of like those picks more than like 15, 16, 17, because the salary is a little cheaper.
But that's a lot of picks in one draft in Indiana between Halliburton and Turner when healthy has, you know, they were right in the thick of the playoff and then play and race before everybody got injured. Any Indiana buzz from either of you. They're going to be, they're going to definitely look to move some of these picks. I mean, they have five of them.
Nobody, nobody wants a roster of five rookies, even if, you know, that 55 is probably a two way, even four rookies is just way too much. They have so many unplayers in the roster. So I could definitely see them, you know, taking 26, 29, 32, calling somebody like the Lakers at 17 and saying, hey, you know, like, do you want to, I think the Lakers, I could be very interesting for them getting a bunch of cheap contracts. You know, there's, this draft is a lot of depth.
And I think it would be the kind of move that maybe happened on the clock, but I could see that, you know, you know, the, you know, trying to think who the Warriors maybe is another team that, you know, is in, you know, salary cap, hell there. And so I, these, we saw the trade with them with Denver getting the 37th pick from Oklahoma City last week. I mean, some of those, they're second round picks are going to have some value on draft night, just because of that, that new second round exception. It's, it's pretty attractive for, for teams.
What teams are doing too is that they're looking ahead towards two, I know it's like 20, 20, 20, 20, like Oklahoma City, for example, like eventually you're going to have to pay Josh Giddy, right? And eventually you're going to have to pay, you know, Jalen Williams down the road. So when you have all these, you know, when you, if you can parlay draft picks now into something four years from now, it just gives you, you know, more security. I think you could see that with, you know, Orlando, I mean, at 36, for example, which is a good number.