And now below welcome to the low post podcast live from Los Angeles, California on my last day on the beautiful west coast It's so nice here Bobby Marks the season is approaching. How are you sir? I'm good Zach doing great working on a little bit of a training camp primer That will come out on October 2nd, but all is good Primer primer who's gonna be on what team there was a lot of About damn name related tangential Dame Dame industrial complex yesterday Thursday. It's Friday morning nine o'clock here on the west coast Not sure How accurate the buzz was or how much is actually going on The buzz was not really Miami directly Miami related We all know that's where Dame wants to go Whoa, which I believe is going to have an update of sorts on NBA today in a few hours I do not know what's gonna be in that update but stuff it stuff something some stuff is like mildly a foot Do we have any idea what is mildly a foot?
Well, I just think it's the the listen we're 10 days away from training camp I mean, that's the reality of it here where a Damian Lillard is going is going to report to Portland for training camp And there's gonna be me today on Monday That's the first or second something start a little bit earlier And I think if you're Portland you're looking at the big picture like we need some clarity I think if you're lillard you want some closure, and I think that's why we're hearing a lot more rumors And buzz I mean Thursday with there was a lot there was enough buzz Thursday where for the first time in the month of September I was out last night I carried my backpack with me and my backpack I stayed home with my computer So I think the reality is that there there's both everyone wants some closure now It's a matter of you know Portland figure out. What's the best deal for them here? I also I almost canceled my dinner at a 715 dinner in Los Angeles last night I was very excited to meet this person for dinner has a nice meal I almost canceled it and did not end up feeling good about the fact that nothing was gonna happen I Agree with you. I just think this is time pressure.
I still would bet on Miami just just because I mean inertia tends to win other teams are definitely thinking through the idea of How worried are we actually that he's gonna come here and say well? I didn't want to be here. Can you trade me to the other place? I you know I think with the contract teams just that's a tough conversation for some of these other teams that are just I don't even know how serious the interest is in some of these places that have been reported as like wildcard teams or whatever That's definitely a conversation I said on TV there They want one GM of a team that I don't think has any real interest in Damian Lillard has so assets to do it if they wanted to I Don't see it said the phrase way station.
Are we gonna be used as a way station? I don't know how to how to parse that Toronto has been mentioned rumored as as a wildcard team That's why I had Kevin Pelton discuss, you know, is there a Toronto deal that makes sense? Don't think Scottie Barnes would be involved. I said that the other day I think you could you could make you could make one be interesting good players gonna go out.
I think Be interesting any other teams that you we probably all spent yesterday making calls any other teams that you're newly on alert for Yeah, I mean, I think you mentioned Toronto Toronto's intriguing here I just and we Kevin Pelton 9 Tim Bond times I think a week ago did this fake trade article and that was one of the teams that was mentioned and I just thought there was so much risk there because let's say Hypothetically OGs in a deal and whatever draft picks and I think there's just risk from all both sides where a year from now Damian Lillard a year older With three years 150 million dollars. Who knows what happens with Pascal Cacum looks and says I want out again With and then Toronto was basically left with you know Scottie Barnes and cap space to build around I think it's I think it's interesting You know, we have you know Friday, which is we're talking today is the first day that Janis is extension eligible We have an article up on ESPN calm why he's likely not going to sign it and kind of the ramifications now and in long term here I think if you're Milwaukee, I think you're interested And maybe just kind of dipping your toe in to see what the availability of Damian Lillard is and certainly would cost you Probably it would cost you true holiday What's the value of holiday around a league a player? That's on an expiring who's got player option for next year expiring extension eligible and on February 22nd? Can you flip him if you're Portland for something more stuff or something else because I don't see how holiday fits You know, certainly with trailblazers here But yeah, I mean those are some of that that those are some of those non Miami teams that you know certainly if you've kind of caught The other teams that have been mentioned, you know across across time now since July Your San Antonio's Utah's Brooklyn's New York's I still just continue to hear no No, not like a hard strong though, but it's like doesn't seem like likely for us New Orleans You mentioned Milwaukee.
I just I can't see it I can't I mean I get why they would look into it for sure I mean the pressure that is on them that was extraordinary they have drew holiday and they have I believe one first round pick They can trade if you unprotected given the uncertainty the honest that's a valuable asset. It's a very valuable asset I just don't know that drew holiday on an expiring deal is fetching the blazers through a third team The kind of bonanza that they're gonna want the kind of bonanza that has to trump the you know, whatever you think of Miami's offer There's stuff in it like a pile of stuff. It's might not be the most attractive pile you've ever seen But it's a pile and drew holidays on actually is a very good player. I loved you.
Howdy I had him on my own day team last year I thought he was outstanding Maybe the best year of his career struggled in the playoffs again And you're just in a position if you get him where you either lose him for nothing or you pay him a lot of money As he enters his mid 30s, and I just don't know that the bushel is gonna be there Toronto is interesting just because they have these pieces right? They've got Siakom and Nobi they don't control all their picks because of the one they owe San Antonio But you know you can finagle around that if you want And obviously if you're if you're trading for Damien Lillard no matter what team you are you have to be good enough Either immediately or pretty soon like within a trade deadline cycle To make a real run at it and if one of your good players and you mentioned it'll be that's that's just common sense to me I'm not reporting that that that just seems like the most common sense to go one Maybe Siakom because he's like I don't know you're hurting your present day team to bring in Damien Lillard I just the only thing I'm curious about the more I thought about it was You do have if you're a team like Toronto in that case you do have Damien Lillard on a contract for a substantial amount of time I do wonder if you have if you have a discussion about okay, yeah, maybe we don't have the ideal team right away Maybe we don't have the ideal team after the trade deadline. Maybe we don't even have the ideal team after one free agency Cycle these right away. What if you honestly isn't a walkie.
What if Philly implodes? What if the time of the Mitchell thing becomes more uncertain for Cleveland? If we get Dame Miami doesn't get him. What if Jimmy Butler gets a little older like You can almost talk yourself into wagering against the rest of the East like who else are we scared of in three in the next three years?
Yeah, we're imperfect. We have work to do. We have pieces to still get I just think that's an interesting discussion I still think it's just gonna be Miami because of inertia that I but that's not even reporting to be clear I have no I don't know what with any certainty what exactly is going on if you just asked me Zach you have to bet actual money which I don't do on which team gets damn I'm just still gonna bet Miami because he's made it so clear that's where he wants to go I don't I don't do disagree or no no I I agree with you. I agree with you.
I mean I think Miami I mean we basically know what the parameters of what type of deal could be just based on what they have with Whether it be hero and you know the two big numbers Robinson or Kyle to make the money work And then certainly the young players and then the draft picks I think I think going back to Toronto Toronto is just interesting just because you know certainly Messiah is a risk-taker But man he holds his cards to his vest I mean we went through last year's trade deadline We thought that whole team could have been turned over whether it be Van Liet going into the last it was You know gonna be a free agent in OG and Pascal now you're looking at the same situation with two players with Pascal and OG who are extension eligible OG I don't think it's going to sign one because it's low and if you're Toronto again It's like do we make a do we make a high-risk move at the cost of OG and if Pascal leaves then we maybe do we flip Lillard again But a year older and now three years left on this contract like that's kind of like is it we do we see like there's kind of a little bit of a window We know where the Eastern Conference is here But but I think it for me it does go back to where to where Miami is and I think it's a matter of you know Getting a third team involved if you know if the hero component does not appeal to appeal to Portland Could be three could be four teams when surprised me if it turned into a four-team trade rarely rarely do these big ones or just They're rarely clean right it's really just a two you know like two teams six players multiple traffic You're you're dead and here's the other thing too Zach why maybe a little bit of a sense of urgency is it's a lot easier doing these deals We saw it last year with Donovan Mitchell trade with Utah in in Cleveland It's a lot easier doing these deals up to October 23rd because we're dealing with 21 players on the roster You know you we've got expanded rosters right now where you could do a four for one deal and basically You're just waving guys on exhibit 10 contracts That's really it when we get into the season October 24th Pulling off a Miami deal or any of these deals a five or two type deal becomes a lot more challenging because now we're waving guys Now now we're adding three or four teams to try to get rid of to get rid of contracts and some of those See I mentioned like a whole litany of teams that I still think are kind of lean know It just takes it takes just a couple changes of heart to make lean. Yes, you just you just never know But I do think it seems like there's some acceleration towards something and the next couple could be a couple weeks could be training Can't could be in camp doesn't have to be this weekend who the hell knows Let's talk about the Indiana Pacers a team. I'm very excited to watch this season that will rank high in the league pass rankings With Tyree's Halliburton and a lot of speed and a lot of dunk in and some interesting pieces 135 games I think last year over under 38 and a half this year So so you know I think this could be a play in team for sure and if things go right Maybe they get out of the play and maybe you know I think there's a path for them to make a playoffs this year There was some news this week via the athletic that buddy healed who was a valuable member of last year's team And has been one of the best high volume three point shooters in the history of the NBA After extension talks have apparently fizzled that the Pacers according the athletic are working with buddy healed on finding a trade So I ask you Bobby Marks I love we you know trades everyone likes talking about trades. Are there anybody healed trades that you that you like?
Yeah, I actually brought the whiteboard and have a bunch of buddy healed trades Well, first of all 19 point three million dollars this year I've got some bonuses likely bonuses in here based on three points shooting that he reached last year I think it's interesting the athletic reported that extension talks fizzled because there was healed It wasn't a comfort level. I think if you're in the end and I'm just talking out loud from a front office perspective not that they offer this I think they have 7.5 million dollar cap space use renegotiation eligible I think if you're Indiana, you're looking to maybe add that money there and then drop his number down similar to what Utah did with Jordan Clarkson, right? We'll boost it up to like 25 and then drop it all the way down to like 15 16 million dollars and It did with my concern. Yeah, that would have been a tremendous deal for you know for them.
He holds 30 years old here So here's one that I like I'm gonna look at Oklahoma City Shooters shooters shooters put some shooters around Shea and basically, you know, certainly the Bertons contracts It's probably going to be the one right just to get that, you know, and you know, certainly there's with the new trade rules or some flexibility But I'm looking at kind of Bertons and a combination of like Isaiah Joe in like three seconds I don't know if that does it for for Indiana What's up? Yeah, yeah Isaiah Joe nice, you know, here's another shooter's got a team option for next year non-guaranteed Bertons partial next year Oklahoma so you can do whatever you want with the draft picks They've got so many first and second here So that's kind of just from a philosophy standpoint as far as putting another putting shooters around the Shea in Oklahoma City I just think Isaiah Joe's good. Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna say no to that from Oklahoma City's perspective But they're not on my list. Give me another one.
Let's do rapid fire If we've heard Milwaukee, I just have a hard time with Milwaukee just getting to the number so you're at 19 3 you got to get to collect 17 and change because it's 110 percent there a second apron team now you're starting with like It's it's too rich for a combination of at Grayson Allen or Pat Conantin and adding Bobby Porter That is rich man. That's so Milwaukee was the first team. I thought of yeah, just the idea of Another just absolute knockdown stone cold assassin around Yannes appeals to me. Yeah, Alan and Conantin together get you there Right is our team.
Yeah, yeah, definitely and so Grayson Allen's on an expiring deal. It's good It's good playoffs are never kind to him but the playoffs won't be kind of buddy yield defensively But he was never played in the playoffs by the way, I know Conantin I've always liked Pat Conantin had had a disappointing season last year felt to the fringes of the rotation when it really mattered It's still two rotation guys for one who is probably the worst defender among the three of them But also the best shooter I just Grayson Allen's expiring deal is semi-valuable Pat Conantin on a three-year $27 million deal That's not a bad contract I just don't know if it's enough of an upgrade and if if I'm worried about his defense in the playoffs more than I am about Grayson Allen's I don't know if I can do it. You certainly can't put my porpoise is just too good Yeah, yeah, you're putting a buddy. You'll deal.
Yeah, but they were the first team I thought of I That's when I take a vote on but I don't know any other ones. Yeah, I mean I looked at Memphis Potentially here just where they are with um, you know, certainly I think you would probably be looking at a canard swap For healed and whatever else can go with it. Um, conard's got a team option for for next year I think you know, certainly you could go smart and with moran out smart healed bane as your three guys At least in the short term if you had to I looked at Dallas potentially. I don't know if they were the second team I thought it was a way he's got two years left on his deal, buddy's got one So if I'm Dallas, I got to pay something to get off a year of money and get a guy who's a better shooter He's a less dynamic with the ball, but a better shooter.
I guess I got to pay a second. Do I have to pay two seconds? I don't know. Yeah, that's all they have.
They've got two seconds in the kitty here Um, you know, you're looking at players, you know, I mean is it is hard away and Josh green too much for buddy heel Yeah, too much. I can't put Josh green and it's just got to be a straight up with a couple of seconds next to it And I don't know the Indiana wants that extra year to hard ways money. Um, that but that was one that was one that was on my list Okay, can I give you a couple of words? Sure.
I thought about um, Detroit Uh, just I like the idea of shooters on a team that doesn't have a ton of it other than Bogonovich who might be a trade ship I thought you know a team that could could stand to trade big for small because they have so many centers So I thought bagley and killion haze. Um, but Indiana's just got so many bigs. I mean we're gonna talk about all their bigs They have miles turn or daniel types. I say a Jackson jail and smith I think they're gonna be interested in playing the wara some at the four.
There's a lot of toward no part of us Top-in is gonna be their starter the Walker kid. They just I don't think that they're hungry Mason played a little four for them. You know, like they've got like, you know, yeah, he might be the odd man out in the rotation And I I am the president and czar of air in east smith island and have been for a long time I like air in east smith. Um, I thought about um, I mean the Lakers would be the funniest one because it's one of the roads not taken But they just don't have no one is tradable right now and I know you uh when he was in Sacramento.
Kyle kuzner. Yeah Uh, I thought about both the spurs and the jazz just as like I just like the idea of giving Young players shooting like just make it easier for some of our young guys, but the spurs have McDermott I don't sense a lot of jazz interests. So they're no my wild ones Are charlotte Um, again, the team that you know could everyone could use shooting a little more clarity in the back court a good bench I think buddy here would still come off the bench if roger and the mellower there and I can throw in Cody martin who who you know kind of fell to To the fringes last year and as a player that's under contract for multiple years at a good number And maybe indiana is like I want a player who's under contract I want to trade an expiring for someone who can help my team A wing a legit a legit okay wing is actually kind of what they need off the bench And then maybe I get a shot at like book night Or kai jones or both of them to make money work. I mean kai jones has had a very active social media Summer, um, that's when I thought of I keep waiting Orlando gary harris gary harris and like chuma okiki and a couple of seconds just say hey, you know what Let's get let's get a knockdown shooter Let's turn gary harris who's a better defender by a long shot And I thought and I thought after injuries and injuries and injuries start to look like gary harris a little bit last year So maybe that's a no-go and then i'm and then i'm out of ideas Yeah, no, I mean I get it I think or land i would be almost more Like let's see where we are come mid-December and I don't know but I don't think buddy.
He'll be still on the board Who knows, you know, maybe that's something that gets that's in there there You know, they've got you know the kind of a litany I guess of guards, but not really a shooter Right. I mean you look at fault sugs, anthony anthony black gary harris kale houston. That's like jet hower. Yeah jet hower Um, so that would certainly make make sense and as you said, they've got that big expiring contract for gary harris Big year for jail and sugs it's a big year given who they drafted and how high they drafted him to big year for jail and sugs I'm not giving up on jones sugs.
We just gotta start making more shots. I like his spirit as a player Um, I like his his mentality. I just have to see some more shots going Let's talk about the paces as a basketball team and not just a factory for trades Because I like to see him. I think they're gonna be delighted to watch and tyree salad burden has stamped himself As an all-star level player and and someone who's just everybody's gonna want to play with this guy Um Team USA kind of reaffirmed what he's what he's gonna be in the NBA It's funny, you know I was talking about lamello a couple days ago with somebody and like this person said Could you imagine like even a year and a half ago if you had asked lamello versus like I remember on NBA today We were talking about lamello or john moran two seasons ago lamello or trea young was like a popular one Now it's like if you asked 30 gms lamello or tyree salad burden.
I think it's like 2010 haliburn. Yeah, um, it's kind of that It's the I mean certainly what when a player is not available Um, certainly like lamello was last year with injuries, um and haliburn plays at a really high level and then he has a really good summer You know, it's it's like I don't want to equate it to what we saw back in i think 2018 We didn't see like why for like two years, right? And then he goes to toronto like man, it's good Yeah, so I think it's I think the mellow plays and he's available and he plays 65 70 games I think he can get back to that. You know how we want to talk about him So they're starting five.
I would guess Will be haliburn Matherin and the the healed thing whether they trade or not I think clarifies that mather is just gonna start and we're gonna roll with our lottery pick from last year who was a rookie of the year candidate until kind of peter out of it Bruce brown Obie topping miles Turner to fund starting five At the one and the five you have very good shooters for their positions Which allows the other three guys to slash and roll and dunk and do the stuff that cut and do the stuff that they do The shooting between matherin and topping from long range If one of those guys has an uptick and becomes a serious three-point shooter and I still have faith in obie topping to do that I mean serious I don't know but make enough wide open kitchen shoot 3s That lineup becomes real interesting because it's gonna be fast as hell and fun to watch Off the bench tj mcconnell's a great backup point guard andrew nephard I mean you talk to people there even though i'm penciling him in off the bench you talk to people there I mean they talk about this guy like it's gonna be hard not to play him 30 minutes a game As a combo guard who can do a lot of stuff big strong different bigger than you think stronger than anything that's two Back up four and five. I think there's gonna be a competition between a whole bunch of players We just mentioned them jerez walker. They drafted jordan warra their high on back up five. Tice I feel like is the safer choice.
Jackson is is the more exciting choice jail. It's mythal factor into there somewhere backup wing The other the backup wing spot and maybe that's still buddy healed. I don't know like that's a that's a I feel like it's both of an interesting and deep team and a team that i'm Trying to check my excitement on because it's still young and unproven Like I want to pencil them in as like a really hammer the over at 38 and a half This could be a 45 wing team like all goes right They can push for the six seed and like definitely get into the play in I'm trying to check my excitement a little because I feel like i'm getting that's a little exuberant but it's an interesting team that owns all its picks and I just think they're worth watching based on how halliburton develops and how this all fits I think them and um, them and Orlando for me. Those are the two teams the non, you know The lottery teams that weren't in in the plane last year Indiana for me and I wrote about um when this article comes out kind of what to watch and certainly There's the healed fact that we talked about mather and it's going to be that he's kind of a little bit the extractor for me Just because of You know, he started he had such a really good first half of the year and then he you know He dipped and you know, I mean our great matt williams pulled some some stuff from me You know 32 percent 32.7 on jump shots ranked in the bottom 10 of 135 players 28 six after february first Summer league summer league 35 percent from the field 27 percent on threes so he's you know, I mean He's an extractor for me, but you know, there are a lot of good things that that he can do here But i'm interested to kind of see where he's at and you get the addition of Bruce brown to this group Uh ben shepherd who was their first round pick is a nice young guard.
They're forgot about forgot to mention them They're maybe he gets in the mix for some of the backup win minutes. Um, it's uh, it's a deep team You know, we're not we don't have the turner rumors hanging over like we did last year here And I think once you get a little more clarity with yields, um, you've got a nice mix of of young players and certainly some of these veterans Mather and the stat that I would look at almost as much as the jump shooting He is in 78 games and over 2000 minutes. So he played a ton 116 assists 152 turnovers. I just think the tunnel vision, um, has got to improve for him And that's fine.
He's a rookie and he is a an absolute bulldozer going to the rim who wants to dunk on everybody and inflict pain Which I like, um, I just want to see a little bit more unselfishness and feel uh miles turner You know Through all the trade rumors All the extension talks that resulted in a deal all of it. I'm glad he's still on the team He's only 27 years old and he's good now Is he gonna develop into the sort of in-space playmaker? You would really love from it from a guy in the short role and handoffs and all that stuff? That's the weak point of his game But this dude is as good of a rim protector as there is in the NBA and is a legit three-point shooter Like that's I know everybody wants more dribbling and skill and like all that from their from their pick and pop fives now He's still a damn good player who opens the floor for all those other guys Who's a good pick and roll partner pick and pop partner for Halliburton allows pop in to be a good pick and roll partner for Halliburton I'm just like we've all been guilty of jettisoning him to all these other teams who need centers and New Orleans was the sexy place I'm glad he's on the pace.
He's good and he's not like old and they extended him on a good deal. He's a good player He's on a damn good contract. I mean two years 40 million dollars I think he's the 10th highest-paid center in the NBA here But yeah, I am I am and I got a good coach and Rick Carlisle. Yeah, that's that and I think with Kevin Prichard He's never really wanted to kind of never embrace like a full rebuild.
It's like we want to be competitive Okay, let's see where we are at trade deadline, right? Maybe we have to take a little bit of a step back and maybe we can add a little bit here But I think we're the used to shaking up. I don't think there's there's no reason why we're not talking about them for you know play in Back-end succeed some somewhere there if they're not in the top 10, I'll be disappointed and that's not as easy as it sounds when you've got like You know, we all the strong teams at the top that are still depending on how things settle in the day and harden situations Which are volatile, but you know Milwaukee Boston Philly Cleveland Knicks heat are also good Atlanta. I'm bullish on Toronto we'll see what they do Chicago is like just Chicago in around still trying to shoot bulls their way into a decent team Orlando was 500 over the last 50-ish games of the season Charlotte is was 27 and 55 last year They're healthy now and Steve Clifford is gonna ring all the winch you can get like it's it sounds Like it should be easy to make the top 10 in the east.
It's not gonna be that easy, but I will be disappointed if the Pacers don't make it This is an exciting team You just hope they find somehow by hooker by crook the other All-star level player that they're gonna need to be a true great team in two or three years around Halliburton Look, this is a team that as you said is rarely bottomed out Found away without a pick above number 10 to turn into the what became the biggest threat in the east of the beat to the eadles They just seem to find ways and I hope they find a way to build that kind of team and and It's an exciting project and I think people shouldn't sleep on the Pacers are gonna be fun to watch this year and they're solid across the board No, I I totally agree with that. I'm glad buddy. He'll give me an excuse to really think more deeply about the steam I like to steam Bobby Marks go to work. I will see you soon Enjoy, Florida And let's go Mets hashtag.
Let's go Mets. Oh boy Another losing season for the common and soon. Thank you. Well, at least you have the Jets.
Oh, yeah, that's even better Like any sports teams who are good You have a hockey team? No, I don't get a hockey team Just pick a great hockey become a Golden Knights fan or something You could all be going funny all the time for the MPa But before we end this I did give my 14 year old the lesson last year of what becoming a jet fan means and what it means Is that there's going to be a lot of misery and heartache and I gave him the out I said pick the 49ers pick another team And he's a no down the stick with them and I said, okay, it's fine But this is what you're going to deal with at some point in his life and God's willing yours the Jets will win and it will be all the more sweeter that he did not cherry pick You know, whoever for for no reason a great team as a as a youth as a youth as a youth Um, at some point they will win and when they win it will mean more. That's what I that's what I've always told myself But that's the nature of sports venom, right? That's that's what we'll do it.
That's the that's the nature of sports Bobby marks. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Zach Hey sports fans. The ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network in service And now you can check if you already have ESPN unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls visit activate.espn.com To learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in the ESPN app It's all the ESPN all in one place sign up or activate now Alright, let's bring in friend of the podcast Recently spurned by the hoop collective in what is being billed as an internal scandal wearing a hat that I need to get the next time I come down to Texas roll their town beer works to talk about a couple teams We haven't talked about in a bit as preview season comes fast and furious media days are just a couple of weeks away Preseason basketball will be here before we know it.
We're gonna talk about a couple Tim McMahon specials today with Tim McMahon. How are you? Howdy partner. I am doing just fine Of course, you know roll down beer works from their famous beer the big German Occoles with minimal hops and smooth finish and yes, that is named after Dirk It's actually if you want to grab one you can get it.
No, Dirk's got a restaurant at DFW airport now He does. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, it's gate C 30 some odd Um, but you know they've got them there they can go grab you one right there Dirk wearing this exact hat on the little sign outside as matter of fact first of all, I do have to say This is a family podcast. It's a wholesome podcast and um alcohol alcohol related paraphernalia.
I'm a little disappointed in you, Tim You know that I don't tolerate that. I am a tea teet holder tea tea. Whatever that thing is I'm not tech. I've got a bar tab from Denver.
This is differently. Oh god. You do this, right? And by the way, I just want to make sure you're telling the truth This is a big German is a real beer and I hope people got the joke minimal hops and smooth finish That's just yeah, I like that.
Yeah, and Dirk. Dirk is very clearly in on the joke. Yes, but that's it's a real it's tasty I will have to have I will have to have someone I come down. Keep it away from luka We'll talk about the mabs in a few minutes Let's go unconventional and start with the Utah jazz a team that is near and dear to your heart A team that I have not talked too much about this offseason and you know, why not the jazz deserves a little love They exceeded expectations last year by the way, I should start by saying I have I have rarely been as wildly incorrect about a team in a player As I was about the 2023 Utah jazz who I described in my league pass rankings in which they finished 30th And let me tell you this the entire Utah jazz front office is still giving me about putting Utah jazz 30th in the league pass rankings I described as less a basketball team and more away station or awaiting area at an airport for everyone to get on different flights to other places and lo and behold I underestimated the collective malleability adaptability IQ of the players and will hardy the coach They all came together found a way to maximize skill sets that would not necessarily have appeared To mesh all that well and turned into a damn good team that won 37 games and that includes kind of sputtering Slap and go the rope a little bit down the stretch This could have very well been a 500 team and the player I was wrong about enough cop to it before I sold all my lowery Market and stock I sold it all I had a lot.
He was in my most intriguing players column years ago He and Wendell Carter jr Just didn't seem like it was gonna happen and I mean he did he win most improve player to Che I must admit, I'm not quite sure but he was he had a held a year. I mean, he was a legitimate all-star You know, he was an efficient 25-point score. Um, he scored a lot of different ways I am glad you brought up the league pass rankings because it is still a source subject there in Salt Lake City I reached out to some folks yesterday and one of my uh, one of my friends in the jazz organization and the upper regions of the jazz organization I said hey, I'm going on low post tomorrow. I want to talk to about some of some of your guys The first text back is oh good.
I'm sure Zach will have his rank last in his league pass rankings again So still still a bit of a source subject there, but no look You were wrong about larry marketing. It's cool. You know who's wrong guest was the chicago bulls It's not like you were just out in the wilderness on this and you know, the the cavaliers I get worked out great for them because they were able to use marketing in a trade to get a guy who We'll see what the future holds for Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers But at least a shot at a perennial all-star player there But marketing it started really when he went to play for Finland and Eurobaskin You saw him doing all these things like dude, you know Because you kind of got to the point where you started thinking to him is like a seven foot spot up shooter, right? Like a seven foot floor spacer and you saw wow man This guy's like grabbing rebounds and pushing pushing on the break and finishing like he's scoring off the dribble He's doing all kinds of things and will hardy's thing when when not just with marketing But what would everybody's team is is more like let's not assume they can't do these things Let's see what all they can do and especially with marketing and it was just like, you know Let's just keep on spoon You know keep on feeding this guy and see how much he can eat and the answer was a whole lot And so the question with marketing now is Where on a pecking order of a potential contender would he be can he be the second best player on a contender?
Uh, you know, is he a really good number three You know, obviously they they'd have to get one and potentially two and that's a down the road thing But there's no doubt that marketing's a guy that uh that they can do around for a while Yeah, I find those questions where does he slide in on the on the theoretical contender to be so context-based like I think depending on who number one and number three and number four are there are teams where he could be the second best player on a great team I think there are probably more teams than what you would be number three But look, I mean, I can't remember a player who leapt from in one season Um, I sold my my sock to is he gonna make the all-mba team like I see my last cut for the all-mba team I mean that is as big of a leap basically as you can take mid-career. He's 26 years old He's not young anymore. He's not old by any means just right in the fat middle of his brian Um, and as you said the down the road questions are down the road You mentioned Donovan Mitchell who brian wind horse and others have said is unlikely to extend with the Cleveland Cavaliers Uh at first opportunity or at next opportunity event. I mean, we'll see Um, the coolest thing about what's happening in Utah is I mean, they own so many picks from teams where you could reasonably see I mean Cleveland even if Mitchell leaves should be kind of insulated from any devastating downside with garland and mobley Minnesota is has aunt so you would think they should be Um insulated from devastating downside.
They have a Lakers pick as well. That's top four protected in one season The cool thing about having all of those picks is you don't have to worry so much about tanking on your own to get the proverbial the theoretical number one option You can try to do what they did last season would just say let's let's get these guys on some games that matter See what they can do get them some experience and maybe we can have the best of both worlds Sunday by the way just as an aside This must have happened while I was away What did what is all like the why did I come back from vacation? And everyone on NBA twitter was angry that people were trying to get like think about Anthony Edwards getting out of minnesota at some point What did I miss on this? It's not like everybody was angry about something that like didn't happen or I just must have missed it I what happened I think what you missed was he played in the world cup He was kind of the most prominent player on team.
You know, I saw that I saw that so that's smart numbers Somebody said it some former players. I don't remember You can like what's it? That's a down the road conversation. There's pressure to build around him because he's that type of a player Um, you know, it's a bit but it's a down the road conversation It's we're at least two probably three years away from that potentially being a talk And so back to the jazz You know feel good season have all these picks And yet you look ahead and you're like, I mean, they not only do they don't do they not know who the quote guy is going to be Unless marketing makes another leap, which I kind of don't see coming, but maybe who knows It was a brief question by the way He was I know, um, I just looked it up in our producer Dan reminded me Something that did not happen that long ago and both of us should frankly be able to remember that and did not Their ball handling future is so uncertain.
Yeah, that, um, I mean, we'll see what can't that george can give them as as a rookie Um, they really like him. They have some other oh chai baji is gonna be more of a wing I think that it's semi primary ball handler will talk about him But that's the big question more forward is like you have to look around the league today and think if we don't get That guy on the draft somehow and maybe they will we'll talk about that Who three four years down the road is gonna be available safely under contract because this is still you talk And we can put this bushel of picks and play for that might be a conversation from the other day Let's go back to this team. Yeah, let's talk about the ball handling present, right? Because it's murky It's it's murky there there's some candidates there Um, but I think that's the biggest question about this year's team and uh, you know big picture down the road It's one star power to that guy and they really like jonte george You know they have three first round picks He was the only one available for summer league because of health issues They they feel though.
He is the most ready. He looks the best of that rookie class. He was impressive in the summer league Um, you know the comps a very common comp for him coming out is a guy who's on the roster who just signed a contract extension Jordan Clarkson, which is that you know, he's starting to guard now Obviously he's been a six man most his career, but basically a an instant offense Uh smaller two guard type, but they want to find out if kiante george can be a lead guard Will hardy would love for kiante george to develop into and he uses the term lead guard He doesn't say point guard because you know, like what's a point guard in today's mba guy who has the ball then runs pick and rolls a lot Right. That's what we're talking about.
Right and not in the john stockin style right like the the old table setter Uh, you know you look around the league you talk about the best point guards in the league They're adding 25 28 30 points per gain and then you know the goal is to find out. Hey, can kiante george be The kind of player who he's your primary offensive initiator Um, you know taylor horton tucker showed some things towards in the last season. I feel like he's had a really good summer You know physically looks good going into a contract year Maybe he can be part of the future. Maybe that contract is something that could be part of the trade to be determined.
I'll say this I wouldn't shock me at all if chris don't starts point guard for him Um, he's a guy who he was out of the league. He was in the glee he barely played the mba for like Three years or so since it kind of went bust Uh with the bowls but they signed him to I think it was a couple of 10 days in the rest of the season last year And he played well for him and you know, like you know he can guard the question is can he like he's gonna kill you offensively? He was solid for him last year and and and again they feel like I said they feel good about him I would not be surprised at all if he ends up starting at point guard or at least playing a lot of minutes for that team this season Saying chris donkengard and I know you don't mean to do this is is underselling. Yeah, I thought I believe it was the pandemic interrupt this season I thought he was the best defensive guard in the mba It's borderline uncomfortable watching him with his giant arms and just super strong bot.
Just harass people bully people envelope these little guards Get in the passing lanes. He's phenomenal I agree with you. He's gonna be in the mix of what is a very crowded back court Look if you ask me like what they're starting five is I only know three spots for sure And they're the three front front court spots marketing collins kesler john collins on the utal jaz by way A lot of people forgot about that john collins former lana hawk that same guy same dude now plays for the utal jaz Essentially nothing to get him actually like him In in this group, although he's gonna fit in the starting five He's gonna face the same problem of they have a big guy who rolls to the rim Just that was clink of pellet's job in atlanta So what is john collins gonna do but will hardy solved a lot of these problems last year figured out what all these guys could do What's the skill that you can lean into even if the fit doesn't appear optimal and then in backup lineups either with kelly olinic Or just as the only true big guy on the floor. He can get into that roller mode But um, let's just zoom out beyond the rotation steam on 37 games last year Ninth in offense and again, that's despite sliding down the rankings toward the end This was a top five offense for a lot of the season, which is like incredible when you think about it Yeah, 23rd in defense, which tracks 37 and 45 their over under for this season is 35 and a half So vegas across the board is projecting them to win fewer games despite having 137 last year and bringing back everybody I ask you tim mcman, why do you think that is and do you think it is accurate slash fair?
Uh, I don't think it's anything necessarily related Just directly to the jazz roster there. I mean the west I think is stronger than it was a year ago But look they won 37 games last year and they tanked blatantly down the stretch I mean to the point where when I was quizzing folks In the league office about hey like doing anything about this mad's tank of blues in the last week of the regular season They're like somebody actually said to me how can we have an ask this about the jazz And my reply was oh, I don't remember ryan smith getting fine six hundred grand for talking about tank in a couple years ago Um, but they take they tank down stretch last season. They were basically a They're 35 and 36 and then they kind of they went to tank mode Um, so I would take the over on that. You know, I I guess one thing you could say is A lot of the reason there were a 500 team was the work that they did when Mike Conley was on the roster Obviously, he was traded just before the trade deadline in the trade that uh, you know really didn't bring them anything immediately That is the trade where and it wasn't just conley.
It was conley. It was yeah. It was vander built. Um, I'm leaving somebody else Somebody else out of it, but you know they they were more competitive than anticipated for the first half of the season Um, but you know, danny age and jess and zannick and ryan smith didn't you know, they they weren't like hey Let's see how good this team can be because the answer probably was maybe a play in team and so obviously kept their their eye on the uh, on the bigger picture there and You know, we're aggressively exploring trades and then you know ended up settling on the the deal where they got that lake Was top four protected pick i believe it's a it's a 27 So, you know, that's something that would make sense vegas wives is when you're looking at their record As much as you want to say they tank down the stretch of the season It's yeah, a lot of those wins were with guys who were you know, in minnesota or uh, the lake rotation now I think it's a fair line.
I might actually take the under and again It's just that the jazz kind of stayed the same I think i guess they traded for john calls. They didn't even say the same they drafted all these guys at least a couple of them Were gonna get cracks in the rotation the henryk skid they got it nine he wasn't healthy for summer league We'll see if he plays certainly george is gonna get minutes off the bench i think so they're not the same But the west is better top the bottom everybody's trying to win even the spurs have women yama We'll see how aggressively they tried with they have some talent You know, I do think this could be one of those have your cake and eat it two seasons where you're competitive You're playing hard you end up 32 and 50 and you have a top five six pick in the draft I mean it or or better you get a little like they could they could kind of do both at the same time with this group Because I do think the west beefed up around them There are no easy outs anymore and they're not catching anybody by surprise And they have some uncertainties particularly in the back court that they've got to figure out Yeah, and I do think you you mentioned three guys in the starting lineup. I'd be very very surprised jordan clarkson doesn't start Um, you know, really playing well as a starter last year Is the veteran leader on that team is a beloved, you know, culture guy throughout the organization You know, uh, I don't know that they discussed specifics about his role when he signed that contract extension But signed the contract extension that I think is relatively team friendly Actually, I refresh my memory looking at the number today was two years 28 14 a piece I'm actually kind of surprised he signed a little surprise he signed that like that's not that's not that's a good deal for the jazz Maybe it's a good maybe he just looks at the cap landscape and says you know what no one has cap room The cba is scaring people. Yeah, i'll take $28 million.
That's fine. Yeah, I do think he'll be Uh in the starting lineup, but you mentioned like have your cake and you do two the worst case scenario for the jazz is they are Uh a playing team that gets bounced or just misses the play in and oh boy. There's the 11th overall pick There's a 12th overall pick because that's not their pick their pick is top 10 protected ode to oklahoma city for the Derek favor salary dump So, um, you know, I know there's new rules in place But if you get down to the stretch of the season and you're in that territory there might be some there might be some uh, you know Tinder hamstrings or things along those lines. I agree with you clarkson's gonna start I think he might actually start at point guard and i'm rooting for him to start at point guard because if i'm utah I'm throwing a baji into the deepwater right away.
I want to start at the two I want to see what he can do as a starter. I want to see what he can do surrounded by our best players I want to see how he defends and what he does against the other teams best players So if it's me and i'm will hardy i'm going clarkson a baji market in collins kessler and off the bench I don't know what the hell i'm doing except probably sexton's got to play collins sexton also still on the team probably george has to play You always have one of a linick and collins back in a walker kessler They don't really have a true backup center I think that's gonna get minutes and then it's just kind of like are you gonna play tht Are you gonna play fontecchio fontecchio was pretty good in euro basket had some moments last year Kind of a tweener forward. Are you gonna play hendrix? I mean, there's other guys.
Are you just done get minutes? I don't know what happens off the bench Right? I like that story five you think that you think i'm baji starts or no I think it's totally up in the air from whatever. Yeah, I do think it's up in the air Uh, and you know just mentioning collins sexton like could he start possibly I guess but I Do know that they consider him long term to be that six man type of guy I would expect them to want to keep him in that role um, you know, a guy who Uh, he kind of compares to it just happens to be on the jazzy's coaching staff And that's jason terry who obviously was a starter for a long time in the mba But had his best years as a six man including on the uh, 2011 mba championship team in dallas And so we don't offer a good guy to be working with sexton on a daily basis But yeah, there's there they've got a lot of people.
Look what the jazz roster looks like now And what the jazz is roster looks like after the trade deadline it could be drastically different and and you know, you just know You know, dani ainches always along with jason sanik those guys are always going to explore the opportunities And it's not their vision is not how good can we be this season? It's you know, how can we get really good as soon as possible? And so, you know, they've got a ton of picks Uh, they and that doesn't mean they they wouldn't stop how more picks because obviously if they're gonna ever trade for a superstar It's gonna be a pic intensive Package but I would anticipate that the jazz would be one of the more aggressive teams in the trade market again this season To go either way because they have a lot of interesting players that can help contenders I mentioned the backup five situation. You know kelly olinix on an expiring deal.
He's extension eligible I would be a little surprised if an extension got done there just because that expiring deal could be in this new cap environment It could be an interesting trade kelly olinix good Um, and they have like interesting wild cards on the roster like I just you're seven from miami I I'm on an on guarantee deal. He is an incredible offensive rebounder with good touch like that's worth the flyer Sominage is still here. Romeo Langford is hanging around in an on guarantee deal for some reason who knows who could emerge? Um couple of housekeeping notes trades you just hinted at trades.
Um You know, bobby and I just talked a little bit about damey and lillard I've never sensed any appetite for you talk to dive into those waters unless the price got so low is to be irresistible Yeah, not not aggressively But like as you said it would have to be the sort of deal that that portland is turn its nose up And I I made a couple brief inquiries about buddy healed because I just thought you know We're talking about the back court and the uncertain about the back court and do they have a pure shooter on the team? Maybe i've got to kind of steps into a little bit of that role but buddy healed his buddy healed And I just I didn't sense a lot of I didn't sense a lot of interests Yeah, again, I think any trade they do is going to be more about two years from now than it is Right now the thing with healed obviously expiring contract and clearly he wants to get paid Uh, then he started talking about timeline, you know, marking in 26 at the guy who's a Unquestion foundation piece there walker kessler. You know obviously going into his second season Abaji was the third guy who they told teams going lead up to the trade deadline was it was off limits and conversations Um, you know, I don't know that it's premature calm foundation piece, but it's that that kind of indicates to you Their optimism about him. I like what I saw from him in in limited minutes I should particularly at the end of the year another part of the dynamical trade by the way, um, they get I can't take on everything you can get um in that trade end like we scurried it over collins I still think john college is good.
He's got his flaws as a player Um Makes mistakes here and there in terms of scheme. He's really really skilled the shot has gone wildly up and down I wouldn't I wouldn't just skirt over that. I understand his place in the starting five little strains This team is very big to see like laurie is a kind of a three again like he wasn't cleaving like it was last year I am excited to see what will hardy has in store for john collins because he's a good player who kind of fell off the map a Little bit last year in atlanta and either he's gonna be good in utah where they should want to rehabilitate his reputation as a player Not as a person. He's a fine guy great guy.
I like john cons a lot as a trade asset. Um, and what it was a great I mean to get him for nothing is a great piece of business for them. Yeah, and I would say Be patient in judging the john columns fit with jaz because it's probably going to take some time Right both him kind of learning how to play in their system the way that they want to play after playing In elana where obviously the ball is going to be in the hands of trey young the vast majority of the time also He is accustomed to playing with a you know a non shooting big man But there's going to be some some fit issues there There's going to be some things that john colins has to figure out more so I think that will hardy's going to have to figure out You know as you mentioned just from a you know quick Fit standpoint it's probably going to be easier for him office When he's on the floor with kelly elinik who can shoot the ball who can you know kind of serve as a as a facilitator Linik can space the floor if if Collins is the role guy in You know in picking rolls down if you ask welcome kesser he could tell you give me a chance Let me you know, let me get some corner threes. I'll just say walker kesser kind of disappointed for team USA He's gonna be a stud in the NBA.
Don't let that performance for you the guy who didn't get a ton of minutes He'd whatever like he's gonna be really good. Uh, and oh look you know what I said before I'd be surprised if he gets an extension. I would be surprised But danny age is always had a soft spot for him if you can get him on a team friendly deal Similar to the Clarkson deal something like it's not it's not the craziest I mean like why not it wouldn't shock me. I would bet against it but wouldn't shock me I'd be surprised if he got one before the trade deadline Fair enough, you know Just because that takes a amount of conversations And if the jazz can be talking to teams because of the expiring contract and because he's a guy who can help in tenders I think elinik would be one of the the guys who edit teams are or asking I know a lot you know They were asked about him a lot last year as well and it nothing ended up happening But uh, I would think you'd want to keep your options open there All right Let's move to your hometown team the Dallas Mavericks that we have not talked a lot about since Just the initial reaction to what was a very active off season for them Omax prosper in the draft Derek lively in the draft Seth curry down to exome Rishan homes and a salary dump Derek jones jr Grant william sign and trade probably the headliner i'd the home run fit to me if i'm plotting out there starting lineup It's the two big stars who are back together kairi Irving and lukatansh Them abs were five and 11 with the two of them in the lineup I'm not gonna go crazy about that with both of them on the floor They were plus 49 in 444 minutes.
That's quite good. Their offense was particularly out of this world defense So so uh, so those two oh that is a very pleasant way to put it Well, they're defense with them on the court 115 points allowed per hundred possessions is is just plain bad It's not like astronomically bad. It's just plain bad They did achieve that number with opponents shooting horribly from three point range So perhaps it was a little qualitatively actually worse than that But that will be obviously that's the big question for this team They're gonna have a great offense with these two guys defensively We'll see those two josh green grant williams and Dwight powell who i affectionately referred to as an NBA cockroach last week on the podcast Just can't cannot kill Dwight powell as a starting center. I think they'll open competition for that spot Um off the bench.
You're probably gonna stagger kairi and luka So they get to cook individually that makes a lot of sense. Tim hardaway jr kleba is gonna be in there I think they might pencil cleba in as a back up for to start the season who slides to five some just to give or shawn homes a Chance or to give lively a chance Um, and then you got this sort of brigade of wings the curries the eczoms the hardies the prospers I would imagine Playing Seth playing with Seth kairi with kairi Irving. That's probably too small. Maybe you just set it up So seth curry plays when luka is the stagger guy Um and Derek Jones jr provides a lot of interesting Flexibility you could play him at the four with either grant williams or maxi cleba at the five and have him be the rimrunner for luka We know luka loves lobcatchers rimrunners this team I don't know how the hell to project them in the west, which is absolutely loaded.
This is a this is a team Where the fit this is gonna sound crazy considering who their two best players are the fit is greater than the talent Particularly below the first two guys. I mean the first guy is by himself Capable of turning you into a 50 win team. That's why I kind of don't know how to project them because below luka Who again by himself is a potential 50 win team By himself with fit with fit. Okay, like I said, it weren't they they It didn't happen last year with with fit that makes sense And I think they have fit that makes sense He alone is good enough to get them to that level if he's healthy and in shape and he looked in shape in euro basket And um playing both ends of the floor And well, we'll see about that.
Uh, which is good with being in shape But yes And then uh and kairi and then the drop off from there like everyone all the other players are like decent All the other players have been backups like here and there or for most of their career So it's but they they all fit and that's what I mean by fit greater than talent I think they're over under is like 44 and a half I would take the over just on star talent But but I just I don't know how to fit this team in the western conference hierarchy And I'm wondering if you can maybe help me. Yeah, I don't know I mean obviously last year was an immense disappointment to go from being a western conference finals team to Being a not even a playing team and and yeah, they tanked on a stretch of the season But they tanked because they weren't going to be a playing team anyway, right? It wasn't in their favor They and they had a top 10 protected pick that they decided they had to keep Um, which made sense the problem wasn't that they the tanking strategy the problem was that the tanking strategy made sense For a team by the skin of their teeth They kept it then they traded down got off protons and got the guy they actually wanted in lively I was a great trade and then they picked up the prosper pick in the home salaries on I think they had a great summer like I think grant Williams is Just a perfect fit on a great contract I agree with that. Um, they gave up a hefty price to get grant Williams though That picked you're talking about the pick swap in right now.
I'm talking about that. Listen, that is a huge Risk, it's a 20 30 pick swap with San Antonio And listen, this is a team that is all in on trying to build a contender around leuka As you have to be when you have that kind of a talent and you know, understanding the way that things work in the modern in the a If this doesn't work out though, woof because you've given up your 2029 first round run protected to get kyrie Which you know, this is all related and now you're 2030 It's an unprotected swap of san Antonio, which you assume san Antonio with victor in year What would that be seven or whatever is going to be good There so there's a massive risk there and they gave up they they move bullock In that deal and i'm not gonna sit here and pretend the bullock is you know, and i'll start anything like that Um, I think grant Williams is certainly an upgrade I will say this though I don't know who's guarding all these really good point guards that you're gonna run up against because that was bullock before it's Grant Williams is a Outstanding defensive player a versatile defensive player. You don't want him Yeah, I can't waste his I can't use his size there. That's not well Also, you don't guard up and down but The small quick guards give him trouble even in switches, but certainly as a primary sign I like I don't know I don't know who's guarding those guys and the the matrix will score they scored last year with with luke and kyrie They they were lightened up offensively.
You know, there's some stuff down the stretch crunch time where You know, they didn't figure it out. Whatever. They will put points up on the board and a lot of them But you know, Lucas had himself last year. We can't stop anybody.
Is that going to change? They they tried that's why you went out and got Grant Williams. That's why Uh, you know, you you targeted a guy like omax prosperer in the draft. You know, why I think we'll play some this year I just ran into somebody the other day with the mass who says I'm more optimistic about him now than I was Even in summer league, but the thought there is hey, he might really be a Impact contributor later in the season.
You know, he is more of a project. You know, Derek jones jr I think can help them defensively, but again, I I don't know who's guarding you know, the the step curries and the Uh, you know, john marance once he's back and I go down to the Western conference like you can run into a really good guard on the vast majority of teams that you might see Not completely. You know, john mary come play off time. Um And so will there be defense and then the other thing got asked was will there be drama?
You need Yes, better defense and no drama. Well, you got to minimize the drama and maximize the defense for this team to have a chance to do anything that would remotely ease the pressure in the big picture Yeah, I think 10 12 years ago If you studied championship teams finals level teams then In elite defense was slightly more important to a championship level team than at elite offense You need it to be good at both, but if you parse the data, I remember doing this in like 2010 elite defense a little bit more That's flipped now in this era of you can't touch anybody On the perimeter. Everybody shoots threes pace small ball skill ball Elite offense has probably surpassed elite defenses the most important building block of a championship team That doesn't mean you can win with a defense and just outscore everybody on the way to a title You still need a competent defense and I don't care what teams you look at whether it's last year's nuggets team an incredible offensive machine built Around probably the best offensive player in the world had a top 12ish defense in the regular season That was a little better than that when they tried to cleave like cavaliers who did not win the title in 2017 One of the greatest offensive teams ever seen they were like a 13 14th best defense in league better than that when they tried You still need to be decent if the maps can be fourth in offense and 12th in defense 16th in defense is probably like around there is probably where it gets iffy They got a shot to do some damage you mentioned omax that those backup wing minutes are going to be really interesting because exome shot The hell out of it internationally figured that part of his game out jade and hardy I take his gotta play he showed enough last year off the dribble Shooting threes which has been up and down from him across his his all other levels of basketball he's played And he's got a 6-9 wingspan to answer your question about who's guarding point guards Maybe it's josh green to start games if he indeed wins that starting spot And I hate to say this I hate to burden him with this responsibility Sometimes it's gonna just have to be Kyrie Irving like you're gonna have to defend your opposite numbers Sometimes that's just the way it is he's a capable defender. He's big.
He's tough He can get around screens like when he buys in He's a capable defender and like sometimes the answer is just gonna be him and if you want to win Like that's just gonna have to be the case some nights Yeah, and you mentioned don't take some I think he can be part of that solution You know, he's a guy. He's always been able to defend in the NBA. He couldn't shoot before and he couldn't stay healthy That's why he ended up out of the NBA. Um, you know, if he stays healthy At least in europe he shot the ball really well, you know, he shot it at 42 percent last year in the euro league So, you know, that's a that's another one.
I think they did really well in the minimum market You know, I with him and Derek jones like they wanted to get better defensively and more athletic Those two guys to me are a really nice uh minimum type of signings, but You know, it like the maximum guys got to buy in on the defensive end but you know, as you just said with kairi and with luka and Look, there's a there's a lot of factors in this but a primary reason that the Mavericks fell apart late last season Is because luka stunk on the defensive end and a primary reason why the Mavericks really got a role in the year before And you know made that western conference championship run. Yeah, it was because jam bronson Really had a bust out season, but it was because that team went from a bottom 10 defense to seventh in the league And a lot of that was luka buying in they are going to build a defense In large part around minimizing luka's responsibilities protecting him I always say one of his best defense of attributes is the ability to hide him on various different positions Um, when he is in shape able to give effort on that end willing to give effort on that end He's obviously a very intelligent player. He has great hands. He is a very good Rebounder defense rebounder in particular.
Um, he's got all those things have to be rolling He's got to be as j kid likes to say willing to participate defensively because it didn't happen down the stretch last year and that's how you go five and 11 with You know to max salary superstars on your roster And look to be clear you and I talked after the trade for kairi and said we wouldn't have done this trade Like we just don't want to be in that business Offensively, I think that math is going to be vindicated for that trade. I think it's going to work offensively for them to review They gave that 2029 first to Brooklyn, which is unprotected didn't witty finny smith That was about the ceiling of what kairi Irving was going to draw as a trade target then It's a cop that's being used across the league right now for James harden and other sort of um troublesome nettlesome situation I don't think I've ever said the word nettlesome in my entire life until right now. Um, it's an exciting moment You think you say a word for the first time? Dartmouth guy is a new word.
Yeah, that's a long time ago. I've gotten stupider and stupider as the years have gone on Um, uh And to put that 2022 conference finals running perspective, it feels like ancient history. It's like not long ago at all Um, they had a great. They had a very good defense that year as you point out and it was one that was built on No magic talent bullet.
It was scheme Execution and attention to detail. It was not luck like there was not a lot of shooting luck involved in it It was just a team that was kind of dialed in across the board a team of unspectacular defenders I mean finny smith's good bollocks good, but they're not spectacular They don't have didn't have a great rim protector or anything like that backing them up They just executed their scheme really well almost every single time down the floor They need to get back to that and I keep I write this sat down every time I talk about the Mavericks You look at the minutes in that playoff minutes in 2022 It's still 2023. So not long since then players who ranked first second third and fifth in post season minutes for that team are gone Like the degree of turnover is astounding Um, and here we are with the team that I do think is good I just like if you asked me what is a successful season? What is like a above Expectations outcome for the Mavericks what maybe if you want to say ceiling, maybe that's what we're maybe ceiling is the right terminology I don't know it feels like second round to me is like a reasonable I don't want to say so I don't like putting the skilings.
I don't like putting the skilings on people to make man To make people can develop and change but that feels like a reasonable like oh wow We had a great season outcome beyond that feels a little iffy to me So I I would say a successful season is a season in which leukadotch Gets on the private jet to head home to Slovenian says, you know what this thing's heading in the right direction Um, I I feel good about the direction of the franchise I feel good about the pieces in place around me and you know the way that they're going like whether Probably would require a second round thing But you know like Derek lifley is probably not going to be a guy who just hits the ground running as a one and done NBA rookie, but as the skill set you want. Yes your defense, but it's it's hard for rookies man It's just hard. Yeah But if he's a guy who you know over the course of the season like this guy's talking says hey By the end of the season he's really giving them good minutes and because for this team to be a real threat They've got to be better at the center position like it's not Dwight pals fault that he's the magic starting center most likely He gets beat up by fans. It's not his fault.
They haven't upgraded there They've tried and they failed miserably to to use your taxpayer mid-level Uh on javille mcgee and give him a three-year deal in the promise of a starting job And then the promise of the starting job lasts two weeks and you know, I wanted to get a special way For a year. I look forward to when we can get through a whole maverick's podcast Just for the sake of the sanity of Dallas fans without using either of the j-words jailin brungsen or javille mcgee Maybe it's 2025 we can get through a whole maverick's podcast without mentioning one or both of them Listen, it's it's not our fault that things have gone. Hey, why are and Seltics out there. Seltics out there jays the maverick's out there jays Hey, and you know, you go back to the three jays back in the day.
One of them's the head coach now Moshburn, you know, there's been some jays People need to google google do some googling on that. That was a that was a interesting era on it off the floor for the Dallas mavericks Yeah, I'm not sure how much of what you find on google will be true. I'm still not sure to be honest with you I hope it's all true But again, they've got they've got to get better at the center position The hope is that by drafting dare gladly developing him tyson tanners been working with him They did hire Alex jensen Um who'd been with the jays for a long time was the driving force behind really good bears development I think they've got good people in place to work with this guy I've heard nothing but good things about him from a you know, obviously athletically like he's a seven foot one athlete I've heard nothing but good things from him about like a you know character or work ethic all those kind of things He very well could be a significant piece of a really good team sooner than later, but it won't be right away Um That I mean, that's that would be great. If you if by the end of the season, they're gladly playing 12 to 15 good minute tonight You'd feel fantastic about that.
I think Um, that's where I am with the maps. I think they're gonna be an elite offense I think kairi you met one thing you said before lucas defensive rebounding one of the things I liked about kairi on this team from the beginning was When lucas gets those rebounds, he's got a guy he can hit it ahead too And this team just desperately needed someone to get their ass moving in transition to get like just a couple possessions Where you get easy shots early in the shock line. It's not a goddamn slog every time kairi is really good at that And I don't want to belabor this who we've talked about before the two-man game between them is something they've got to lean further Into than they did last year. I was actually surprised how rarely they used it It felt like just such a natural extension of the small the the kind of wing point guard pick and rolls that luca likes to run to get size Mismatches and what kairi had with lebron in cleveland I would imagine that was one of the projects talked about in the coaches meetings in the off-season You put those two things together.
I just don't see any way. This is not a very good offensive team. Yeah, listen I don't think anybody's worried about their school points There's a lot of things to worry about I think as you mentioned, they were a damn good offense after the trade last year They should be better than that um, but that's That's not enough even to crack the play in And I know mavs fans don't want to hear about like a second round exit would be a quote ceiling or something like that for this team That's just life in the west man like there's gonna be you go across the board I was out to dinner with someone last night in LA We were listening all the decent to good decent to very good to elite teams in the west And we talked about how people do this exercise like they don't even mention minnesota minnesota is like an afterfly I think minnesota is going to be good this year Like they push denver is I mean they didn't push them. They lost four to one But without make the annuals without naz read that's a good team That because people focus on the sort of top teams and then the sexy wild card teams like dallas or the pelicans was zion Like they're just the west is absolutely loaded Uh, they thunder get a lot of buzz because they're young and exciting and blah blah Houston upgraded here and there West is just loaded like second round exit for the maps I think would be a great a great season anyway I mean it's hey a second round play index.
It would be a massive update from what we saw a year ago It would be it would be we're just gonna just some years you got throw into the dustbin of history move on Pretend like they didn't happen don't say any of the j-words and move on with life to mcman A regular on the hoop collective. I think a co-owner of the hoop collective You need to get your image you and bond temps need to get your faces on the logo of the hoop collective I can I can I feel bad asking either of you to come on this podcast because you're you're that that's your show along with brian now You need to get your faces up there. There's a there's a bootleg Cartoon drawing that has bond temps very prominently on there. I'm also on there now It was done by kiki bond temps the beautiful misses bond temps an outstanding artist That's my preferred logo and not this thing where it's windy Actually, did you know that he is changing the pronunciation of his name?
He's gonna be vint hers now. He's decided that he's really leaning into the german thing So he's no longer windy. He's now vindy globetrotting but just across the world I do he does have the best hair of the three of you and arguably the best hair at the worldwide leader No, he was he was a lot cooler when he had a bloodscot. He's gone You know, he's got all he gets he's basically an endorsement deal with his goop that he puts in his hair now Vindy's gonna Hollywood on us Vinthorst.
All right, Tim McMan, uh, your coverage is awesome across the league I'll see you soon buddy and keep that Denver bar to have between us, please Appreciate brother Nadios amigos