Matthew Rhys

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Mike Wallace, and I'm joined by Heather Thomas. Hello. How you doing?

Great. Wonderful. I'm one of our favorite actors that's here today. We love him.

He's sensational. He really is. Matthew Rhys. And the exciting part of Matthew Rhys is you've probably come to know him in the Americans or Perry Mason, maybe brothers and sisters.

I don't know why you know him, but you've most certainly only heard him speak as an American. Yes. And this motherfucker's from Wales. Yeah, it's real tasty.

Oh, it's real tasty. His accent's so tasty. And he even spoke in Welsh for us, which is very exciting. This becomes a little bit of a history lesson on Wales.

And boats. And boats. Yes. So if you like boats in Wales and perfect acting in the Americans, you're going to love this.

Also, we want to remind people to watch Perry Mason. Perry Mason has been nominated for four primetime Emmy Awards, including Best Lead Actor. Not surprised. Not even a little.

And also, an all-bulletins announcement. Is that a word? All-bulletins announcement? ABA.

I got a quick ABA, and I'll that for you. If you're interested in participating in Season 2 of Nurture vs. Nurture with Dr. Wendy Mogul, we will have applications up on our website, armcharexpertpod.com, for your perusal and submission.

So if you want to be involved with that, please go to the website and fill out the form. Please enjoy the charming Matthew Rhys. He's an armchair expert. He's an armchair expert.

I went down the entire Instagram rabbit hole of your boat, which is madness. Now, look, I have a similar affliction, not to the degree, but what an undertaking. I have to assume you're obsessed with Hemingway. Yeah.

I wouldn't quite say obsessed, but what's the word that's before that? Infatuated? No, I think that's more. Oh, really?

Yeah. I think you respect it deeply. No, it's more than that. Why don't we mull over this over the next hour?

Also, I want to talk to you about your seating arrangements. Let's do it. Well, maybe you talk to me because you see such contrast between the two of you. For those who don't know, is it a lazy boy?

It's a hard-working lazy boy. Yeah. Well, hang on. First of all, have you talked about this before?

I might just retread. No, no, no. You're the first person interested in a lazy boy, I think. What?

Because the image I'm seeing is just quite striking. Dax is in a hard-working lazy boy. Monica, what are you in? Oh, this is a joy bird.

And it's architectural, right? We would say it's like mid-century. It's very architectural. Yes.

Yellow. Yes. I pop on it. It's a very attractive arm.

It looks like a cherry wood, maybe. Probably a laminate, but yeah. I call it more of a walnut, but sure. No, you're right.

Okay, quickly back to Hemingway. I do want to bullseye. What's between respect and obsessed? Intrigue?

I am definitely intrigued by him. That's very true. I also like boats, which is probably why I bought the boat. So did you see the Ken Burns documentary just on about him?

No, but I love that. I love those docs. It's amazing. And also Kerry Voices, which was a boat.

But it was one of the first times where I thought there was some real insight as to who he was as a person, which I think is someone who was deeply complex. Well, can I suggest something that maybe you've already read? I recognize that he was one of the greats. My interest level is like a 6.87, but I got obsessed with this book between he and his editor, Max Perkins.

So I want to see the editor's name is Max Perkins. Definitely Max. Very famous editor. He worked with Hemingway his whole career.

He worked with Thomas Wolfe. He worked with Fitzgerald. So this guy was like the hub of all these crazy, mad literary geniuses. And you get to learn, I think.

Imagine if every interaction with you and your agent was unveiled. We would learn a lot more about you than probably any interview you'll ever do. Absolutely. Well, you'd certainly glance at the deep-rooted vitriol that lives inside me on a daily basis.

And fear, right? I think so many early correspondents with my own agents was just like so much fear, assuming they had some keys to the kingdom they didn't have. It's part agent work, mostly therapy, really, where you're saying, why don't you fix me in my life? Why don't you tell me why I'm craving attention from strangers and approbation from people I don't know?

Yes. And why do I need all this attention? And why am I so jealous of everyone else? And why?

There's a lot there. I actually made an apology to one of my agents years after this agent had left the business, but I called him like, and we remain friends, mind you, but I just think through getting sober or something else, I called him, I just want you to know that you bore the brunt of a lot of my anxiety and my fear. And I so apologize for that. And by the way, I was pretty disappointed in my own behavior.

And he said, oh, you're not even in the top 30. I was like, oh my God. It's like 10, you expect five made by 30s. Why do they even do that job?

Well, he quit. God bless him. Greg, he's still my friend. Yeah, he was like probably 32.

And he's like, you know what? I'm out. This is not for me. It's admirable.

It's a strange job. It is. Now, you're not in your boat, but you are in a room. Wait, I'm sorry.

Why did you think he was obsessed with Henry? What about his boat? Oh, sorry, sorry. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I was bringing it back to the boat just now because I was like, the inside paneling of his room, it makes me think he might have a general aesthetic. Yes, I do. I like to be cabin feverish wherever I go. No, we're in a rental in the Catskill Mountains at the moment, which is why there's an abundance of work.

Okay, okay. That helps. Yeah. Well, three and a half years ago, I used to look at boats on websites anyway, and I would always look at boats on eBay and things.

And I was on eBay one night. My son hadn't long been born, and I was a little bit drunk, and I saw a wheeler playmate for sale, and I knew enough about Henry to go, Henry had a wheeler playmate, and I knew there wasn't many left. So I looked up, there's only like four still registered. Oh, wow.

And there was this old guy selling a wheeler playmate on the West Coast, and I ran into Carrie, woke her up. That was smart to do when she was breastfeeding, and said, I want to buy this boat. This boat needs to be restored, but I want to buy it. It's like my Middle Age Crisis project.

She went, sure, fine. I have like boating friends. Two of them said, we know this amazing wooden boat shipwright. He can do it for you.

So I'm set up. I can hand it over. It can be done very easily and very quickly. Sounds very turnkey right now, but I know enough.

Go ahead. Sadly, it didn't work out with the shipwright. So very quickly, I found myself looking at YouTube videos of shipwriting and restoring vintage wooden boats. I had this incredible captain.

She's called Captain Kelly Fowler. She had her own kind of woodboat dinner experience on the Hudson, where she would cook New England food and then drive this massive old wooden minesweeper. It was incredible. She joined me, got her on board, and the two of us basically restored it over three and a half years.

Wow. You got to look at the pictures on the Instagram, because there's so many faces. Like, I'm really putting myself in your head, right? Because I've done stupid shit like this.

And you see it, and all you're seeing is USC on this thing, and I get it. And it's gloriously restored. And you're ignoring it's on the West Coast. You're like, yeah, probably going to be a little bit challenging to get that boat all the way to New York, but manageable.

Oh, here's a place that'll restore it good. And then it's got to be up in the ass to get that boat to New York. That's got to be its own one month process. First of all, I didn't know there's plenty of guys who haul boats across the country.

Not a problem. You can find tons of them. You call them up and you say you have a 1939 wooden boat. You're like, hello, hello.

And that's all I had for so long until this one guy like in a cowboy hat went, yeah, pick it up. It's a semi. It's like a wide load situation. Guys going 49 miles an hour all the way from California, probably.

Yes. Yeah. And he's to have the air thing. I can't remember now.

So like it cushions the boat. Yeah. Cause he could hit some pothole in your anyway boat is now sawdust. Yes.

And I talked about that with him at length. And then I remember there was one point where are you? He's like, I don't know, but there's some demonstration and people are on the road and I can't move. I was like, this boat's never, never going to come.

You got to be an agent. You were like, you got to recognize the guy's frustrated. He's hot. He's tired.

And you got to get them across the finish line. Yes. And you just say, I know you're tired. I know you're tired.

You've only got eight more states to go and you've done so well up until now. And I love the pictures you've sent. Thank you so much. There were other elements to this that I had these kind of ridiculous notions that you probably well know.

New York is incredibly overpopulated and we live on these kind of wild waterways and they kind of ignore it. People just look at them or they walk across them. But it's the last part where kind of the wild meets gross urbanization to me. It's where the two meet.

I had this notion that I would get this boat ready and it would be one of the last quiet places you could immediately access. Like you don't have to drive hours up north to get to the quiet. You can get a sense of space by being on the water. And that's what I wanted kind of rose tintedly for my son.

Yes. Yes. Although I'll never let him on the boat. Okay.

Let's geek out for a second because I have a similar fascination with the Hudson. Hey, I'm from Michigan. Everyone owns a boat. So I'm shocked that no one owns a boat in New York because you're in between these two huge waterways.

That's weird. Yeah. Two, the history. The fucking British sailed ships up the Hudson and fucking shot cannons at Battery Park.

That happened? You could be standing in Manhattan and boats were blasting cannon? Really fascinating. Second big obsession of mine.

John D. Rockefeller. He had this amazing place up the Hudson and every morning he'd get on a steam powered boat and he'd have this beautiful breakfast and read the newspaper and start his day and he'd sometimes pick up other friends and then they would deliver them to roughly Battery Park. And I thought, if you're loaded, why don't you come into the city like that?

Get on a boat, have breakfast, read the newspaper. Like I agree. It feels like a superpower. If you can harness that river in New York, it's like you're the only person doing it.

I know. Listen, I'm aware of how white and privileged that is. But I had this notion that like you could feel space again in the midst of millions. Yes.

Don't you have an RV as well? Well, it's a bus. I have a 45 foot diesel tag axle tour bus. And like you, I'm like, oh, I'm set for life.

Everything hits the fan. I get in that thing and I go somewhere. I figure out whatever place is not on fire, whatever place is not flooded, whatever the thing is, I've got a life raft in my life now. Was that the motivator for it?

No, no. I wanted one forever, my whole life. Not to bore you with the details, but they don't make the big, nice buses with bunk beds. Usually old people build them and live in them.

They don't have kids, but I have two little girls, so I had to have bunk beds. It's very hard to find the floor plan I wanted. So I've been looking for probably three years for this thing. And it just so happened I found it in quarantine.

How's it to drive? Oh, it's a dream, Matthew. Oh my goodness. It's going to be simpler.

The only risk you're really running is the bus weighs like 50,000 pounds and it's crazy powerful. And I know a trailer, you'll have blowouts. You have no fucking clue. The thing could just drag a trailer on no wheels down the road and you as the driver would never, ever know.

If you're not paying attention to it, it could disintegrate behind you. You wouldn't know. That's a lot of responsibility. Or freedom.

You decide. Yes. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah.

The other way to look at it is like a car. You'd be all out of control. This is kind of freedom. It'll just keep plowing forward.

Good for you. Thank you. I'm glad you can recognize what's happening here. What percentage of people do you really think could drive it for real?

Of all the people in the country. Well, let's start by saying that more people could drive it than think they could drive it. And also I put that number at under 1%. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How are you captaining your boat? Once you're on the open waters, there's nothing to it.

And it's twin engine, right? So you got to learn to forward, reverse thrust and all that. I leave that to the captain. Captain, yeah.

Who drives the boat, chief? Yeah. Okay, now back to the project. So, Monica, as you will go through tonight on Instagram, as you're laying in bed and feeling spunky, this is a great album.

You look at that picture of you, Matt Damon, and you go, God, I can't believe you came in. Right? Well, yeah, after she stares at that for 30 minutes. Just his arms alone.

His arms alone in that picture. I found myself staring at them. God, look at his arms. He still looks tip top.

Dreamy. Let's go for half the second, Matthew. You don't know what name you're going to get because he's such an incredible character actor. So he's often playing like pudgy or bloated or frumpy.

It's very admirable, but you don't know what one you're going to get. And this motherfucker walks in here and he's like, you walk on the set of Goodwill Hunter. He looked like he was 28 years old. He was down to probably 8% body fat.

It was incredible. I would have loved him regardless, but he did it for me. He was at his peak peak shape. Yeah, it's great.

Is it still waters on the end of the movie? It's legitimately great. He's incredible. You'll love it.

You'll love it because you're an actor's actor. I'm looking forward to that. He's one of those where he comes on screen, you go, oh, we're okay now. Yes, yes, he makes you feel safe.

That's a great idea. Yeah. So consistent. We're okay now even in Contagion.

The whole world's fucking unraveling. You're like, it's okay. Yeah, but you go, yeah, it's okay. Matt Damon's here.

I just got to wrap up your bow thing. So Monica, literally he's stripping fucking 70 years of paint off the side. And it's so encouraging, right? Like I was watching it because it's in order timeline wise.

So when you take out the top layer and you expose the wood under there and all those great little dolls, I guess, that were put in in place of rivets or whatever, it's gorgeous. And you're thinking to yourself, I found a diamond in the rough because the top is gorgeous. But then as you get down to the lower thing, I'm like, that's a lot of rock. Oh, what are they putting between everything?

Oh, after you've already been standing for God knows what a year and you're so encouraged, then you get to the bottom and it's just fucking mush. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a P wet wood. You're like, I don't know if this is going to hold up.

We might need to replace this bit. And prioritizing probably better that the bottom of the boat is watertight and not the top looking gorgeous. Yes. It all starts making sense.

You're like, oh, right. That's why it's rotten because it's in water. Anyways, they clearly put 10,000 man hours into this personally and the boat is fucking gorgeous. I love it.

And they rent it out. If you're in New York City, you can charter it and have dinner on the boat. It looks really cool. It's called Movable Feast something.

Yes. Movable Feast NY is the website. Yes. Hemingway, when he's looking for a boat, the story behind that in itself is incredible.

When SQI was established and they went to Hemingway and said he wanted to be the first contributor and he's like, I want to buy a boat. So if you put a 50% down payment on the boat, I give you an article. And that's why I went, yes. And they still have the deeds to half of his boat.

They still have the people. No way. I know. But Hemingway came to Brooklyn because he's like, there's this family in Brooklyn called the Wheeler family.

The Wheeler's were kind of like trying to make Cadillacs of the sea for the everyday man, basically. There was another part of me that thought, you know what? We're kind of restoring a piece of Brooklyn history that I want people to experience again. So yes, I like to think they kind of, you chartered a little bit of Brooklyn history.

It's not just a white piece of fiberglass. Okay. So on that boat you speak of, he went down and there was a national fishing tournament every year in Cuba. It was the most popular thing in Cuba.

And he went down in that really nice boat and he caught the biggest marlin. And the papers kind of turned on him. They were like, oh, this northerner with this really fancy boat. He came in.

The second place guy was a Cuban guy. And so his response to that was to take out an ad in that paper saying, I will be boxing men for four hours on this day. And anyone that can beat me can have my marlin and have the prize money. And he went and fought four or five gentlemen in a row, Monica.

And he kept that fucking marlin and that money. I mean, you know what happened for real when you were telling that story? I zoned out just like I do when I'm reading his work. I am not a fan, but it was kind of interesting.

Like I just clearly can't take in any info about or from him. It's kind of a boy's voice. And he killed himself. It's a tragic story of mental health.

He really wrestled with it. He was clearly a functional alcoholic. His own father killed himself the same way. Is it the whole machismo thing that puts you off, Monica?

Machismo. How'd you say? Machismo, yeah. Are you using the Estonian pronunciation?

Yeah, it's machismo. No, no. It's just far too boring. I find it incredibly boring.

I think that's a fair observation, especially if you don't get to the meat, because really what it does is it kind of lulls you into this weird voice. And it's slow and consistent and blah, blah, blah. And then the thing happens. It's always like really heroic.

You know, you have to read that in school. So it like translates in my head to something I had to do that I hated. I really hated it. Yeah.

I'm going to cut all this out because I know everyone doesn't mind. No, I think he's kind of popular to this life. He's weird. He's like mixed messages because he's by all accounts the manliest man to ever live.

And he's in World War I. He hunts big games. He's in Africa. He's alone at sea.

He fishes. He boxes. He's an alcoholic. All this stuff.

Yet underneath we go, this guy's a prolific artist. That's fascinating. Therein lies some of the masculinity or something. Like, that's why he's intriguing to me, right?

Me too, because it's the overt masculinity. You're like, whoa, what are you hiding in? You also love cats. You don't shout about that too much.

No, but he loves cats. So I'm fascinated by how overt he was. And like, you know, I'll fight anyone for this. And he's like, what?

What's that about? Yeah, compensation. I think my posthumous psychoanalyzation of him would be, he was a guy who was incredibly sensitive and fearful and open and ashamed of that and compensated. stadium and all these other ways like so to me it's a wonderful kind of just full story of masculinity especially in that era i can relate like i had to do all this shit fucking ride motorcycles jump shit race things fight guys fuck drink too much do too much also i could tell you i'm scared i was molested i've been victimized like i felt like i had to earn it all just to get to a point where i can start being honest with you that i'm fearful of everything so i just really relate yeah there's also a man who's dressed in girls clothing as a young boy that's true okay let's talk about whales for a second because i am embarrassingly ignorant on the history of whales i think monica and i both have our full knowledge oh not the animals very similar in fact i know a ton about whales the mammals so just i don't know anything about whales the country but i'm good on whales so i think monica and i probably have the same shared total knowledge of whales which is at one point prince charles had to go there and learn the language and make a speaking language of whales in the crown they sent him there to learn to speak welsh so that he could actually make a speech in welsh and i don't know up until that moment if i knew that welsh people had their own language i'm so embarrassed to admit that but here we are did you know i mean i've heard the term welsh i thought it was like latin like yeah a couple hundred years ago people spoke welsh did you know scots and the english have their own language yes there's not any movies about the welsh like we've got braveheart we've got roy rogers yeah roy rogers the first scottish cowboy yeah great cowboy so i know it's a lot to ask you but why don't we know anything about well i mean i guess i think tons of responsibility but also maybe there's no movies do you feel underrepresented in the united kingdom oh yeah yeah oh my god yes yeah we're the cousin that was kept in the attic because the english callers what i enjoyed the writer cup was in wales i can't remember like 10 years ago and all the references the american references were like wales is the size of connecticut but the population of pittsburgh it was all it was like it was all that is put it in american for us yeah yeah but also it's like growing up in wales it was always like the newsreader will be singing to english right swathes of amazon being cut down the size of wales you're like you're always a reference for something not quite big enough but sort of relatively small can i make a parallel you're the rhode island of the uk because that's that's also i was in a military base not long ago and they're like this size of rhode island i'm like that's huge and i'm like i have no fucking clue how big rhode island is is it nine mile long i might i might get a t-shirt just saying wales you're the rhode island of the uk but would it be patronizing to ask you to describe how pretty monica looks in wales i would just love to hear how it sounds oh my god you've never sounded more beautiful i know and i don't think he said that i do you do we're doing a lot of reverse engineering on who we think you are simply based on having carry on which was a fucking party we had so much fun interviewing carry and she brought beer she's still the only guest that's ever showed up with her own beer she loves a beer she brought beer but to be just clear she's the only one that brought beer but she's not the only one that has drank beer or alcohol well many guests drank her beer that's right that we left the rest day and people drank it including me that's nice so you're saying other people came to your show and said do you have any beer they just happened to be in our fridge from her and they're like oh beer and they took it oh okay and similarly we just had the umbridges on and rob got him a really nice bottle of mccallum mccallum what is it mccallum mccallum mccallum 12 year old so had you been here we could be feeding you a little nectar what did matt damon want he didn't it was pretty early it was pretty early in his defense what would he have liked i wonder um i bet he would like that mccallum mccallum mccallum oh boy big mac a tea a very specific tea no he's like big mac oolong oh sam adams that's two on they love a tea yeah they love oh yeah they really like to use it as a projectile so okay now i need to catch people up egocentrically on my experience with you and i told carrie i doubt you listen to her episodes i'm gonna tell you it the americans comes to us highly recommended to the point where you're gonna have to watch the show like the wire or you're not gonna be in your friendship group right you know these shows well the americans was one of them and we start watching it and just i'm gonna be brutal with you but total honesty and when it first starts i'm like this is our spy huh this guy is our sexy sp9 spot i'm being dead honest with you this is our guy carrie's goddamn right she's our spy but you i'm like this is our spy huh you're gonna keep saying it well i'm dragging out what he knows about 40 minutes into the episode i paused it and i turned to chris and i go this motherfucker is sexy and she goes oh my god i was just thinking the exact same thing and i'm like oh my god this guy's got fucking rhythm like fire coming out i was so sold by 40 minutes and then i just thought you were the sexiest most charismatic guy and i was like fuck yes this guy is our espionage hero there's nothing i can say yeah that's a weird compliment to receive isn't it well it's probably the best one i've ever received at first it was nagging and then it turned into something real there's a lot going on intrigue then obsession then infatuation wow we ran the whole we went up the ladder all the way to infatuation but anyways i became obsessed with that show like everyone else's and you are truly so unbelievable in that show holy fuck are you amazing i'm not a couple questions for you my wife and i she's also an actor so we watch things differently as i'm sure you do right so there were a couple scenes in the americans where it's like you guys had your hardest conversation as a couple while both deeply undercover right so there are times in the show where you're having the most important conversation you'll have your characters will have but you're in a huge afro and funky clothes and she's in god knows what and i said to my wife this is the day they gotta have this conversation they're looking at each other and they probably don't recognize each other like a really unique situation yeah as a character that happened several times in real life where we were having big moments in the trailer and you're looking at her dress and in the most bizarre oh she's got contacts in and you're like hey look at me she goes i am looking at you like oh we had some strange moments like well there were times like we have an argument and i couldn't move my mouth because the mustache i'm trying to shout and be angry and everything and it all happened yeah it's so there's a point where it got so meta because it's like you're already playing russians who are living as americans so that's one layer and you're i imagine you're even considering that when you have these big moments where it's like you and your wife are having a come to jesus moment but i guess for me as the actor i'd probably be annoying being like when we'd be doing this in russian i gotta get over that hurdle yeah no the kids though but they had many many private conversations where it got really tough yes that was discussed at length with the show's creator like wouldn't there be moments where we burst into russian like and he's like yeah well you know listen i think you dedicate yourself not speaking russian years and years and years you know how dangerous it would be to speak russian and also the russian you spoke in season one was so bad we can't write anything in russian for you ever again we're like that's fair and that's accurate i remember with the russian kind of person helping us we were just drilling russian and i was like am i saying this right she's like yes you're saying it right but you don't sound anything like a russian and i was like oh oh we'll never get this we'll just never get this and i was like maybe we should put a line in just for the audience to say why it is we don't burst into russian at a certain moment or like there's one moment where you start shouting one russian word in the case like right so i'm just saying you're stepping over all these realities and now you're adding on to it and now i'm wearing a humongous afro and big lapels and i got ignored that too so i just think it was a unique test of being truthful and sincere despite a lot of distraction and i kind of appreciated how well all that went considering well thank you for saying that i know sometimes it gets boring when i have to say this but i attest that to the writing it's the same for us the other stuff fell away and you're just so invested in those people and what they're going through there are moments when she walked on set like john denver and you go wow what the fuck is this and then you have to work through that that was the worst one i know because she did she did look like john denver and i struggled with that scene but that's about the only one i did there was one other the hair makeup stuff was so quick and turn around you shoot you know the lighting okay then she walked on and literally said i took a side i went are you i don't know if you're meant to be a boy or a guy yeah yeah yeah she's like yes i'm not sure either stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare i want to get into one moment in the show if you don't mind i was having these very very visceral feelings while watching the scenes and then i kind of opened up the conversation to monica because i thought i pinpointed why i felt the way i did and it wasn't the obvious so at one point in the show you're tasked with kind of wooing a teenager and you're like on the surface this is rough for all the very obvious reasons why it's rough but there's a scene with you guys in the kitchen and you've smoked pot and you have the munchies and you guys are having fun like you're having fun by the way that actress is so incredible who's gone on to be incredible in a million other things but i thought i pinpointed for me why i wanted to be in that kitchen in that situation it was that she helped you time travel like maybe that's the appeal of that thing is that you got to go back in time and smoke weed and have the munchies and be a kid and so i found myself like really into that scene but not for the pervy reasons just for the time travel reasons and i just want to tell you that i didn't give me an answer but i was like why do i love this so much because it's not the gross thing but i do love this i love the notion of being able to go have a day as a 17 year old again yeah i'm sorry about the depth of your perception because you thought about it far more than i did but i think you're right like because in some of the flashbacks you see how they lost their youth to what they had yes he never had a youth level in american youth and yeah you're absolutely right and beautifully put it was that there were such a few times where that was evident or allowed for them as well yeah to just have carefree fun it was such a reprieve from your fucking life yeah that's what when we had estra perel on the first time she talks about affairs and that it's not really about your partner it's about you what is it she said you're not necessarily cheating on your spouse with another person as much as you're cheating on your spouse with the other version of yourself that you miss yeah you're clicking back into an old part of yourself yeah and i was like oh god that sums it up in a way i have a lot of compassion for it's like yeah we say goodbye to some parts of ourselves as we take on more responsibility and all that it's all groovy but there are sometimes you're like fuck i miss me i miss how i felt and then this other person's a conduit to that not that the person is that yes oh my god do we have a cry yeah i'm slightly affected by that statement it's powerful right it is but it reminded me it's like that that scene and that relationship was like that it was a part of that character that he didn't have or missed yeah yeah and also the youth they never had the innocence they never had now we maybe share this i mean i could be wrong about the history of the americans you can correct me but i kind of had this experience in a movie where i was in this movie no one saw it at all i mean literally no one saw it it was a movie idiocracy it was out for like 10 seconds at theaters at like 40 theaters and no one ever saw it and then a few years later people started saying to me like hey so idiocracy and now it's probably at its pinnacle 16 years later it's at its pinnacle which is a very bizarre experience which i love and i wonder if americans a little bit like that like you're like i think i'm doing some of the best work of my life and i think i'm one of the best shows i've ever been on and i'm not sure if anyone's seen it yet yeah it's definitely that but like you referenced by your movie the americans has had a lot of afterlife and continues to yeah it still trickles you still get references of people who've just seen it or finally been put on to go around to watching it yeah who have that same experience about mainly about relationships i always enjoy when couples come up to us about the americans that did just the different takeaways and just how sometimes very visceral like you'll just be called an asshole you're an asshole you're like oh right yeah god you're lucky to have her you're like are you talking about the americans oh yeah i hope you are for anyone's not seen it i'll say two things about one is yeah i can imagine for women's like the story that carrie's going through in the 80s and what it was like to be a woman what it was like to be a spy and what there's so much great amazing stuff and mother daughter it's incredible but what i always say to people is give it four episodes i want to say it's episode five where and i'm not ever seen a show that sets a pace that it maintains for so long i just don't know how they did i mean you guys are at the eye of a storm for four seasons yeah i totally agree with you that's what i can understand about how the writers maintain that because at any given moment i was like this house of cards in a fall and i say this but i didn't feel like it did no i don't quite still quite understand why i didn't i put it up there with sopranos as far as just like kind of somehow managing this impossible weight and stakes and plot forever and it just always worked yes so good and i suppose if you know the consequences can be so big at the end you do want to know it's just a metronome tempo until the inevitable yeah all right well i hope everyone sees it now based on that of course you get this opportunity i read this the la times what's great about you is you can consume everything you've ever put out there in about an afternoon your wikipedia there's nothing there i mean there's nothing i don't know your parents did i don't know a fucking thing about you and i guess it's a congrats to you because that must have been intentional you must not like doing press what's great is you're still this wonderful mystery to me like when i read i was like oh great i'm gonna find out everything about him because there's nothing really here for me but anyways i read the la times thing and come to find out that perry mason had been developed for robert donnie jr he and his wife susan she's a fucking beast right yes yeah and has such such take on story and tempo like she has that produces analytical brain of what makes a story work why and at what time her notes are always i'm always like how do you know to say that it's like you i'm just as shallow as a puddle because i can't get a sniff of half the things you're getting from this she's incredible we have to start by going she's a woman that looked at robert downey jr and said yeah i can handle that how long was he in jail where's he was yeah yeah no problem and now they're this total force production team yeah so it was developed for downey and then for all the many reasons people don't end up doing stuff and then you were immediately in their mind and i don't know that i would ever put you guys together thematically but once it was proposed that way i was like oh yes i see a ton of the downey thing with you which i hope you take as a compliment it's so weird that someone can be so sparkly and yet have so much pathos and all the other stuff you would want it's pretty wild combo and i think you very much have that as well have you seen yeah have you seen him in chaplin it's crazy that still haunts me because i remember watching i in a cinema at a young age going oh i give up now what's the point if you can't do that there's no point and if someone's at that bar don't even try jumping you're absolutely right if you were a long jumper the olympics are out right now so let's put in that world and you saw that someone jumped 22 meters in the standing long jump and your best was 10 you wouldn't go into it but lo and behold the nature of our business is 10 might win the olympics when it's your time i know you go you know what i know i've only jumped 10 but i'm gonna have a go i'm still gonna try to go in the olympics yeah but sir robert downey just jumped 18 meters yeah but i'm still gonna do it i know yeah actually him in chaplin was a real kind of moment we go oh i don't know if i should yeah so when you got that role that wasn't the first time you didn't have to audition is it or just maybe of a lead role i would say almost one of the only times i wonder if we shared this at all so my dream was just to get offered shit but then the times i got offered stuff and i didn't audition i realized i would show up to set and about three days before i would go i have no fucking clue who i'm playing because i wasn't forced to figure that out during the audition process and now i'm pretty nervous they hired the wrong person yeah you only do the work at the audition that's when the work is done virtually once you get the part just spend the money and congratulate yourself by old boats that shouldn't be restored yeah it is so lovely but there's some weird mental thing about having not gone over that hurdle before you start for me there is but with mason it kind of got in my head a bit because because it was meant for robert yeah i just was overwhelmed with pressure and fear because then they're like hey if you're like oh well if it's not robin's him he needs to be the same as robert yeah or better and you go that's not how it works I'm here by default it's a default process he can't do it so by default I do it so you'll get a defaulted performance this is so great because of course you think those things and everyone thinks those things and then you remember acting is as much about the fingerprint of who's doing it as it is about any particular skill so yeah you probably wouldn't do as good doing chaplain as he did I certainly wouldn't he couldn't have been on the Americans the way you are so that's fascinating he probably could no I don't think so it would be good but different we're getting sidetracked this isn't about Downey this is about you of course so I have seen the show and I absolutely think you're fucking again so fantastic in it and you guys are doing a second season yes sometimes it keeps getting delayed for various reasons the most obvious but we're all fighting so yes we were supposed to be shooting but it keeps getting pushed and pushed so we are hoping to go before long do you like having to come out here to work I do I love LA I lived in LA for like 6-7 years I love it it's still incredibly exotic to me because growing up you'd see images you know everything that I associated with film and television you would see images of LA and you kind of go I want to go then and you go I'm in LA it still has that when I come into land I still look at the wind and go there's LA it's bizarre I totally agree I was on the show Parenthood and I went to Universal every single day for 6 years and every single time the gate opened in my head I heard I was like I can't believe I'm driving on a Hollywood set it's never left me yeah I had that on Mason we shot so much on Paramount on every soundstage it tells you what's shot yeah so he's just like Wizard of Oz Godfather you're like oh my god yeah just adds to the nerves but it's incredible it is especially coming from Wales which may or may not be the exact same size as Rhode Island you've worked really just consistently at least from the outside in what little exists about you it seems like you've really just worked consistently the whole time you've been doing this is that fair like you got in to the Royal Academy did that seem improbable when that happened to you yes and no because strangely enough a good friend of mine who's a year older than me as we were growing up doing our kind of drama classes and workshops and all the rest of it he said I'm going to apply to the Royal Academy and I was like what you can't do that most people don't go to the Royal Academy only Tony Hopkins goes to the Royal Academy and then he got in and then he was like oh my god maybe I could get in so that was the it buoyed me to attempt it and then we did but when we lived together for years 10 years yeah Johan Griffith and then he got a part in Titanic and all these American actors were like you should go to LA and then we both did that but I was always lucky enough that he was the true pioneer doing it and there were others Michael Sheen and Reece E.

Vance and all the slightly older guys who were doing it so it became possible and overall it's interesting that a job comes with living in America as well but unless you're going to drive yourself insane you pretty much got to be here yes and is that aspect of it fine you love Brooklyn you seem like a Brooklynite to me I love Brooklyn New York has the same exotic out in the LA dance because we live by the Brooklyn Bridge and I still feel like I'm in a movie when we're going to see it I'm like a nice little kiss out of Gary sometimes I'm talking in a Brooklyn accent when I go into a store she's like stop don't do that it drives me insane and I was like I know but I just feel like I'm in a movie it blows my mind that my son will see the Brooklyn Bridge and go oh we're home I know no we're not we're in a movie I know I try to tell my kids they're from Michigan even though they're from LA I'm like but you're a Michigander just know that we're still visitors here this is not real I only found out they're called Ganders the other day I had a group of Michigan people on the boat one of the ladies had a Great Lakes tattooed on her back oh yeah and I said what those she's disgusting Peria's bigger than whales yes yeah that's what I'm told that's why it's called 2Pier 2Pier is welcome and then I also wonder I've had this thought because I have a couple English friends with American kids and I have an American friend with an English kid is it trippy to look at your progeny this thing that is an extension of you speaking in this American accent and being just an American is it freaky yeah it is well it's not long six seven years ago it was taken off the endangered language list so there's not many people who speak it and my parents were incredibly passionate about the survival of the language they campaigned and protested and my cousins were arrested you know it was a big thing and they were like you have to pass on the language otherwise it'll die so I do speak to my son in Welsh but when he replies to me in an American accent it still blows my mind yeah it does many things to you there's an element that kind of breaks your heart as well and kills you but it's part of this evolution in the trailer you're on I don't know this but I'm guessing it would be very natural if the Welsh folks had a chip on their shoulder which they do yes and so I'm from blue collar Detroit we have a chip on our shoulder and God knows Bostonians have a real chip on their shoulder it's a bizarre notion but I kind of want my kids to have that same chip on their shoulder I'm not even sure why I guess because it's a defining part of what makes us us yes but I also think you want them to be like you or to come from you and that's such a defining characteristic of mine and he's going to have the chip and I go well if he doesn't have the chip how will he get on it's like where's his hunger where's his drive how will he hate the English as much as he yes and without that fuel in his tank can he propel and then you start questioning do I need to have that to propel that's always my battle can't I work out of joy can't I try to accomplish love and joy why does it always have to be I'm a terrible failure and you're proving everyone right why does that have to be the thing because it's such a powerful incentive it is like the big joke about Celtic songs like Iris Cross and Welsh there's only two songs you're on the dock waving goodbye to the boat going to America you're on the boat waving back at the homeland there's no joyous songs at all we can only work from melancholy how often do you go back not often enough we're going to go to Dublin now which is great so my parents will come out of there but it's been since Sam came like once a year I miss it I want him to know the usual paternal cliches about wanting to know the homeland and father's upbringing what is the thing when you land in Wales and you leave the airport and you're in the car on the way to your parents' house what are the visceral things that you're connecting to the big joke is because when you cross over from England to Wales it's this giant bridge like it couldn't be more of a symbol so you always wait to see the tip of the bridge and as it grows into its enormity usually the second your wheels touch the shout goes up so that's always something very childishly I look forward to is that shout when we cross the bridge since it's on Wikipedia what did your parents do or do they do yeah they're both teachers my father's a principal my mother was a music teacher in a blind school oh wow Monica where are you from Georgia oh you what is it for you oh that's a great question I don't I also get back there so it feels nice but I always feel really grateful to live in LA after living in the south so I'm happy to go touch back down but I'm happy to be here very much so the south comes with a lot of stuff I'm happy to avoid it does have a distinct feel though atmospherically I'll say it's very similar to Michigan in fact in the summer it's like very humid it smells like deciduous trees there's no pine trees oh yeah storms summer storms that's just nice I mean it definitely like gets ingrained in your molecules so like when it happens even here like if there's a random thunderstorm which is like once every six years or something you feel it in your body when you're used to it yeah it's nice yeah that to me is always the funny stuff as much as it's the physical triggers that you don't even know exists yeah exactly you must hate this question but alas I will ask it I think for many people still it'd be shocked to hear you speak in your native tongue and your American accents are so varied and so fucking good they're amazing yeah do you have a specific approach to that impersonate George Clooney okay see that's wonderful that's where I started years ago when I was auditioning for American shows I just would listen to him and not necessarily impersonate him but he was my reference for a long time in ER and I just I don't know why I just latched on to the way he spoke yeah so that was a big one for me we grew up with American shows as children we would be impersonating members of the A-team Stansky and Hutch that's what you would do in your garden or in the playground we weren't playing Downton Abbey we impersonated Americans from the early age do you have Fall Guy or Dukes of Hazzard I had a Fall Guy Dukes of Hazzard AWOLF you and I are virtually the exact same age you're like one month younger than me I'm January 2nd 75 you look much better no no I don't think so you look years years I can tell by your arms you're in the arms you're like a butcher's dog he's a man I know I like it I've gotten to the point where I embrace that I have grey and shit that's happening I'm starting to look like a middle aged man and I think for those of us who embrace it we're going to be unicorns in this business we're going to be the ones that look not like a bloated balloon but I cannot accept the body I can't accept it I can't have an older man's body I just right now I'm still wrestling with it I need to feel like strong and virile I can look like anything I don't care I need to be able to lift shit that's all I got left where does that come from? oh hyper masculine upbringing no dad all the tropes in search of masculinity looking for approval from other male figures and that's who I am now aging is scary when things are changing and you can't lift something anymore or things start to I mean that's universal I don't think that's necessarily because of the masculinity thing what's not universal is my response to it so I think what is it that gets me to go work out six days a week there must be some other wow six days a week I try to Jesus Christ we're doing different things you're doing incredible acting work and I'm like jumping stuff now for a living I just jump things and do wheelies on things so we're doing exactly what are you jumping what are you jumping well I host Top Gear so I jump tons of shit on Top Gear holy shit I didn't know that well it's the American version that's why you wouldn't know it probably but when did you start doing that season one has aired on Motor Trend it's about to hit Discovery in a second window and then we've shot season two already and then hopefully we'll do a bunch more but it's just me driving like an idiot and that's what I do now which I have a fucking love like everything they told you as a kid not to do now people love you at work for doing what a feeling wow good for you thank you have you seen that F1 series on Netflix we love it obsessed and didn't care at all about Formula 1 prior to that nor me now can't stop watching it like oh my god you watch Sunday's race it's crazy it's the best place I've ever seen other than on motorcycles unreal who's your guy this will tell us a lot about you to be honest I don't have a guy because I kind of bounce around quite a lot with him like everyone dislikes well not everyone likes a lot don't like Verstappen but I think he's kind of I like him Zach loves Verstappen I do I'm personal friends with Daniel Ricciardo he's our favorite he's our favorite right right but Verstappen is an android from a planet where they drive with the consistency of a laser beam I don't know how he can do what he does in the car no no you watch the race he couldn't get by Mick Schumacher right and then at some point I don't give a fuck I'm gonna fucking die right now I don't have the pace to pass him but I have the wheelbarrow to pass him I was like oh he's insane I know there's a part of me I want to have that drink with you and see if I'm gonna crack a shell or are you just am I just gonna see the wires coming out of your ears he's basically the Hemingway of Formula 1 now he's my hero he's my crew he's the next James Hunt have you seen that doco on James Hunt that's amazing that was the final race in Yorkham and there was rain coming and his manager goes he walked into the hotel he's like listen you have an opportunity to win this championship it'll be the only championship you could win don't have a drink tonight and he goes I won't I promise you and he said literally he was about to hit the W other second I won't and he said you saw James Hunt eyes just go and his manager looked across the hotel and it was like this cabaret singer and he just went we're fucked the next morning he's like I'm not gonna need you at 5.30am he's like yeah fine fine fine he's walking up the stairs at 5.15am and James Hunt is coming down the stairs with the cabaret singer and he's like it's over it was in the day when they had manual gearbox and Hunt he's winning against Nicky Lauda and the top of the handle gets popped up and flew out of his hand and he's like and he's got like a few laps to go and then he put his gloves up rammed his hands down on top of the gearbox and used his own hand as the shifter and won at Yoke Ammon in the Rain it was like well clearly what happens with boys needs to play too okay now they know about Hemingway and I know about Hunt and we don't like Lauda even though Lauda's like he dedicated his life to it he deserved to win every time he put in the time he was a choir boy off it was his life and yet I'm drawn to these other people who are like juggling chaos yes why because this is what I don't understand I can have half a bottle of red wine and not be able to act the next day right how does Hemingway drink as much as he did and then turn out for whom the bell told how does James Hunt win at Yoke Hammer on no sleep and two bottles of vodka how does he snap and do it I'm like how do they do it I've also had this great fascination with certain musicians namely Waylon Jennings obsessed with Waylon Jennings and if I'm honest about what I'm attracted to it's that he lived like a teenage male chimpanzee yet his art was such that everyone excused everything if I'm being honest about what I'm really attracted to is this notion that I could have everything that I could live like a monster I could be drunk and fucked up and be on drugs break everyone's art but the art would be so good everyone would look away from it so this fascination with people who can be horrible and then people excuse it do you think you feel good about yourself if that were the case well so no so that's what was revealed about my addiction is that I could do all these other sparkly things graduate Magna Cum Laude do these things and offer them up to everyone in my life but I had to go to sleep with me that's the lesson I learned is like oh even if I could do what Waylon did I don't have the personal constitution to live with all of that wreckage I feel personally guilty but it seems like a way to live with your id and your super ego all at the same time and pay no bill but you have to pay a bill you do you pay a personal bill yeah right or if they know that you do it and you're still capable of what you're capable of it's okay the other great example was Colin Farrell he was another guy I watched with great interest because I was already sober at this point and I was like this guy's doing it man he's in Tigerland he's in Playboy admitting he did ecstasy and coke this weekend I love it for some reason that's who I'm drawn to I'm like oh could you do the best work could you be as good as him and do that I'm so good I can still do this and deliver the goods I don't necessarily think it's one of those juvenile masculine things there are women I've seen do it equally as well so I kind of have to show myself that it's not some bullshit masculine that I'm drawn to I'm just like how do you do it I think it's all humans desire to have absolutely everything they want period and then you start finding out oh if I have that I can't have that and if I have this I can't have that and you start shrinking down what the possibility is if you want all these things that are contradictory so I think like the fantasy is that it appears some people are getting to do all the things and paying no price for it but again it comes back to I just emotionally pay a big price even if I quote get away with it right well Matthew god damn it you're as charming as I was expecting oh that's not true but thanks for saying it can't cut my hair today this is why I look like a monk if someone put a gun to my head and said to save the world you must join some couple's lovemaking you'd be right on the top of the list for me just so you know you wouldn't have to save the world you'd be welcome any time oh thank goodness thank God because it's going to be hard to orchestrate that yeah where the whole world's at risk it's a knock tax jeopardy it says the world's ending let me come in oh all right come on in we're going to come on your boat yeah for real come you're welcome any time thousand percent we're going on your boat that's a guarantee let me know we're in New York it'd be a pleasure to have your boat no I just felt like such a dick it'd be a pleasure to have your boat that's what you need to say if you have a boat I know and then I hate myself for saying that no you earned it well listen like Hemingway I know a lot about your character from taking that boat from the grave to its illustrious state now and I say that sincerely I look at that Instagram and I'm like this dude has a quality that I admire and I aim to have as well so maybe I learn more about you from those boat pictures than any role you've ever taken on we're going to meet you in real life and we're going to be on your boat glorious I support you thank you for this invitation please tell your lovely wife we say hi and we miss her I will she sends lots of love by the way ask if she can have her other two be in fact bye alright bye both stay tuned for more Armchair Expert You dare. Yeah, but it means brown, so I don't have auburn. Okay, nice black long.

If it was auburn, it wasn't mine. Ooh. Auburn is brownish red, actually. Oh, a hint of red.

Like a chestnut? That's very nice. Mahogany? A cherry?

No, that's not. Those don't have red. None of those things. All right.

How's your mood? You were in a little bit of a bad mood yesterday. I was in a terrible mood yesterday. I don't know how much of it was psychosomatic.

What happened, as you know, is I woke up pretty early to research somebody, because we had kind of an early interview. And right upon rising, I was like, well, I slept for five hours and 45 minutes. And this could be the psychosomatic part where I'm like, I'd never have a good day if I sleep. Oh, you told yourself that story.

I don't even know that I thought it out explicitly as much. It's just I want eight hours. And if I don't get it, I just feel like I'm going to be tired all day, maybe. But I was tired all day yesterday.

I ended up taking a little nap, which was nice. But yeah, I was cranky. It was a big day yesterday, though. We interviewed someone really early in the morning.

Yep. And then Aaron was here, best friend Aaron Weekly. Yep. And I knew, well, this is the time.

If I want to move all my exercise equipment from Carly's basement to my garage, today's the day. Yeah. And so I slammed that in the middle of all that. And you're talking about carrying hundreds and hundreds of pounds upstairs, putting on a truck, putting on a rubber man.

It was a lot of work. Yeah. And then we had a second interview, but that one was really so fun that it kind of, as you recall, I was in a great mood afterwards. Yeah.

It bullied you. It bullied? Bullied. Oh, bullied me.

Yeah, I like that. I mostly got excited because you had gotten so excited. I think we could tell people your clothes exploded during the interview, which I didn't think was atomically possible. But here we are.

We're mid-interview. Very sexy guest, for sure. Very, very. Totally warranted.

And I glanced over to my right, because it's on Zoom, and I see Monica's full brassiere. No, not full. Okay, 30% of your right brassiere, your third love. I saw black hanging out.

I was like, whoa, what happened? And she had it buttoned up to a level where you would have never seen the brassiere. And then somehow, one of the buttons just exploded during this interview. And you're full cleavage, as much as one can have.

I didn't realize. You didn't know it. And to be fair, it was a very loose shirt. It's not like a tight shirt where it would easily pop open.

I have no idea how or why that happened. I wish we recorded it so I could replay the tape to see if you dropped a button, like, subconsciously. You're just like, no, I didn't. Okay, so that was, first we were like, wow, your shirt exploded during the interview, which is exciting.

And then, I think Ruthie discovered that you had a huge hole in your crotch, in your pants, later in the day. So we're like, holy shit, your crotch blew out, too? And you're like, that was not there this morning. So it definitely happened in the interview.

Well, it happened at some point during the day, potentially during the interview. Well, if other items of your clothing were rebelling. I mean, context clues would tell us that it did happen during that interview. And also, a very loose pant.

Incredibly. Like, yeah. Like, for no reason at all. Loose his pants, you own, probably.

Yeah, well, and now they're in the garbage. Oh, you pitched him. Yeah, I had to. There was a big hole.

He was in the garbage. Anyways, certainly this is the first guest that's made your clothes explode. And that's exciting. It is.

I hope he feels so proud of himself. It was unexpected. Totally. For all of us.

I wonder how hip to it he was. I wonder about the shirt. At what point in the interview would that happen? And if he noticed the shift?

We have the Zoom video. We're not going to watch that. Oh, the video is recorded? Yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, that might be worth me going through to find out the exact moment that your shirt exploded. The tie stamp? And I wonder if we can see your pants exploding.

Like, you might have missed it, but maybe it's visible on the replay. Maybe. Play the tapes. Anyways, that was really novel.

That's about as novel as it gets. Both your upper and lower wardrobe exploding because of someone's smile. Well, the smile was outrageous. It was outrageous.

And the way the guest handled his smile, which is he starts, there's no smile. You almost wonder if he's grumpy. Yeah, sure. Or he doesn't like us or whatever.

Yeah. And then he bangs that smile at you. Oh, it's a pop out. It is.

Sometimes pop outs do. Make your clothes bounce off. They do. Pop off.

That was enough to get me out of my bad mood. Because you were so excited. Your clothes were exploding. You left deep in your fantasy world, which is always fun to watch.

It was kind of a bummer because there was a plan yesterday night that was supposed to happen. And we were supposed to have another one of our guests. Daniel Ricciardo. We'll just say it.

Daniel was supposed to come over for dinner because he's in town because they're on break. Yeah. He had some sniffles. Yeah.

Or so he claims in the morning. And so he was being responsible. He didn't want to risk any of us sick. Or he hadn't yet been tested to see if he's got Delta or whatever.

It was a smart move. It was a safe move. It was a sad move. Not to our liking.

Because we were going to all have dinner and Monica was going to wear a certain outfit. And it was going to be. And when he left that outfit, it would have exploded. Disintegrated.

Yeah, exploded. Now that we know it's possible, it might have happened. Oh, my God. This could be its own reality show where you meet people.

It's almost a contestant show. Who can make your clothes explode off? Yeah. Holy shit.

Maybe it'll be an episode of Monica and Jess season two. Oh, yeah. Or that could be a test that someone has to. Do you have all the toothpicks with you?

Yeah, you only have one. Yeah, can I have one? I don't have my nicotine toothpicks. Of course.

I would like to update the Arm Cherries who maybe were concerned when I was vaping and dipping. I just want to say, it's not a brag. I'm not making a claim that I won't fuck up again. But currently, I'm off vapes for almost two months and off dip for a month.

Big, big, big congrats. And then what I do in place of that, of course, is I got to pick something else up. So now I'm back addicted to toothpicks. Yeah, but we like this addiction much more.

Yeah, other than I inadvertently leave toothpicks everywhere. Like, if you walk around my house, now there's toothpicks everywhere. It's just terrible. And I chew on them until they start disintegrating.

Again, like my clothes everywhere. And so I just have like tiny shards of toothpick, of wood. And then I just leave them on the couch. You pick them out and throw them anywhere.

Yeah. Yeah. I have it in my head that they're organic because they're just a piece of wood. So like anywhere I'm at in real life, I just pitch them on the ground.

Not in the house, but like out in the yard, in the driveway. They're going to disintegrate in my mind. This is the only addiction that me and you share. Or like, what do we call it?

Addiction. But you know, like a habit that we share. A vice, yeah. And to be clear, these toothpicks don't have nicotine.

They have tea tree oil. The ones that Monica's on, that I'm now inviting. Yeah, but you also like the nicotine toothpicks. I love them.

They're awesome. You love them. But I don't do dip, and I don't do nicotine mints, and I don't vape. Right.

You don't do any nicotine. Correct. But we share so many other addictions. Of course.

But I just mean, like, you know, other people connect with you. They're like, can I have that spray? Can I have a mint? Can I have this?

Like, everyone's doing that. Like, pass me that vape. And I don't have that with anyone. But now I have it with the toothpicks.

And I'm just grateful. Me too. Yeah, the fact that I could bomb a toothpick off you were in there was awesome. Although you were previously addicted to toothpicks.

The last time I was addicted to toothpicks as well. Well, we weren't friends then. Yeah, we were. We were just brand new friends.

Okay. Okay, so you have that, David. Now you're better. Yep.

Ish. Uh-oh. Tell us. Tell us about it.

I hate when I hear grievances on here. No, it's part of the show. It's part of the show. Okay.

I have reached a saturation point with emails. Oof. Tell me about it. I can relate.

I know. This is something you know inside now. And there is something fundamentally flawed with the way emails work in that everyone responds, they respond, they respond. At a certain point, I open these emails.

I don't know where the new text is. I don't even know what is new about this email. There's 75 replies. None of it applies to me most of the time.

So I'm trying to figure out, like, what is my role in this? Someone asked me to do something. And it's, but I have, like, 30 chains open on my email right now with replies from all these people. And I don't know if I'm dropping the ball on any of these.

And it's just, it's overwhelming. I couldn't possibly read all these emails. Um, I could. I don't.

Right. I'm not gonna. But see, okay. This is where things get a teeny bit tricky, I'll say.

Tell me. Because with Kristen as well, the job of the people around you two is to not have you have emails for no reason. For you to have emails in your inbox that you do need to respond to. Right.

And not be inundated with all this other crap. Yeah. Now, you like being involved. Yeah, I don't have an assistant.

Like, it's as simple as that. Yeah, but you also just like being involved. Yes, I do. You want to be.

So, like, for Hello Bello, if you then aren't on email. If they name a product and I'm not aware of it, then I flip out. Or, yeah, other things like that. So, I think for them, it's like, well, now we just have to include them on every single thing.

I couldn't agree more. It's no one's fault. None of this is fault. No, I know.

It's hard for people to know what things I think I need to be involved with. That's impossible. That's why I don't have an assistant, to be honest, because I don't think I could even give marching orders. It's hard, yeah.

There are solutions, but also, emails sucks. Yeah. Anywho, why don't you bring that up? Oh, just today, the emails.

You know, I just have several people in my life right now that are trying to get some resolution to something that I'm not as invested as they are. Oh, just respond plainly. So, sorry, I'm just not that available on email, and I'm just super busy right now. Period.

The end. It's okay. I know. I'm a codependent.

It's hard for me to do that. It's interesting to me that that is the case for you, because I don't think you're like that with people you actually are close to. I don't think you have a problem in that way. No, no, no.

Totally false. I, for 10 days now, an hour of my day is ruined with the idea that I don't know what to get you for your birthday. Oh, my God. Literally.

Well, get that off of your fucking place. That's what's happening. And there's nothing you can tell me to alleviate it. I'm smart enough to go like, oh, Monica's really thoughtful, and she gives great gifts.

And, of course, I should reciprocate, and I can't think of anything that's not just me just buying a gift for the sake of doing it. So, every day for about an hour in my subconscious, I'm like going through, what did I hear her say? And it's building to this terrible thing where I'm going to not have anything of any real value to you, and it's going to ruin your birthday. She loves gift cards.

That's fine. I was going to say, ask Rob. He's really good. Rob is incredible.

It was Rob's birthday. I was fucking all wound up about that. Just relax. Relax.

This is not, on my birthday, it's going to be annoying for me if my birthday is on the list of things. Like, no, just don't worry. You don't need to get me anything. I just had a 25-minute conversation with Kristen, but I think she already nailed it.

It's okay. You can just write on that. I don't want to, because it's a cop-out to say you guys are good at it, and I'm bad at it. But also, you guys are good at it, and I'm not good at it.

It's not even being good at it. This is the difference. I get joy out of it. It's not even that I'm good at it.

It's like, I really like the hunt, figuring it out, doing something special. Like, all I clocked this last year was that Matt likes pecan pie, and I wrote it in my calendar for six months later. Buy him a pecan pie on a birthday. If I don't do it like that, where I hear it, and even though it's six months out, I write that down ahead of time, I don't know.

You don't have to get me anything. Okay. Now I'm on the way down. Yeah.

Now you're going to. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Do you ever do this?

Stick it in your teeth? Love to. Yeah. And just let it hang.