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Conditions apply. Offer includes 1% loyalty rate reduction for qualifying customers. Visit HyundaiCanada.com or your local dealer for details. This Sunday, Biden's red line.
President Biden warns Israel he will cut off some American weapons if the Israeli military launches a full-scale assault inside the city of Rafah where more than 1 million Palestinians are sheltering. If they go into Rafah, I'm not going to supply them the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah. Israel defiant, saying they are willing to fight without U.S. help.
If Israel has to stand alone, we'll stand alone. Give Israel what they need to fight the war they can't afford to lose. The American people want an immediate ceasefire and they do not want more U.S. military aid going to the war machine.
Is the relationship between the U.S. and Israel at a crisis point? My guests this morning, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, and Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Plus, legal storm.
After ruling Donald Trump violated a gag order 10 times, the judge presiding over Trump's criminal trial threatens jail time if he violates the gag order again. If you say anything slightly off, he wants to put you in jail. And after Stormy Daniels takes the stand describing her sexual encounter with Mr. Trump, the judge rejects the defense team's request for a mistrial.
Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba, former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press. From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
Good Sunday morning and happy Mother's Day. Today, the world's eyes are on Gaza as the Israeli military widens operations, including ordering more evacuations from parts of Rafah, a densely populated area in southern Gaza. Despite President Biden's stark warning that he'll withhold weapons if they launch a major operation, the U.N. says 300,000 people have fled Rafah over the last week.
Now, last week, the White House halted a large shipment of 2,500-pound bombs to Israel. And on Wednesday, President Biden warned the pause could extend to even more weapons, even though the administration continues to send smaller arms. It's the president's greatest breakout with the Israeli government. And Mr.
Biden made a striking admission that bombs supplied by the U.S. have killed civilians in Gaza. Civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers. I made it clear that if they go into Rafah, they haven't gone to Rafah yet.
If they go into Rafah, I'm not going to supply them the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities. It's a notable evolution from the way the president talked about civilian deaths back in October. The Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Ministry says Israeli forces have killed over 6,000 Palestinians, including 2,700 children. You've previously asked Netanyahu to minimize civilian casualties.
Do these numbers say to you that he is ignoring that message? What they say to me is I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed. I'm sure innocents have been killed. And it's the price of waging a war.
I think we should be incredibly careful. I think now we, the Israelis, should be incredibly careful. But I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using. Now, on Friday, the State Department released a report criticizing Israel for failing to protect civilians in Gaza, saying the results on the ground, including high levels of civilian casualties, raise substantial questions.
The report says it is reasonable to assess that Israel has violated international law in Gaza, but said the U.S. hasn't been able to verify instances that would justify withholding military aid. That finding allows the U.S. to continue supplying weapons to Israel.
Responding to President Biden, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said Israel is prepared to go it alone. I've known Joe Biden for many years, 40 years and more. We often had agreements, but we've had our disagreements. We've been able to overcome them.
I hope we can overcome them now, but we will do what we have to do to protect our country. And that means to protect our future. And that means we will defeat Hamas, including in Rafah. We have no other choice.
And joining me now is Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Secretary Blinken, welcome back to Meet the Press. Morning, Kristen. Thank you so much for being here.
I want to start with that State Department report that did not draw a definitive conclusion about Israel, whether it's violated international law. Amnesty International says of the report, this is the quote, international version of sending thoughts and prayers. Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen says it ducks the ultimate questions that the report was designed to determine. Mr.
Secretary, is the U.S. trying to avoid holding Israel accountable for its actions? No, we don't have double standards. We treat Israel, one of our closest allies and partners, just as we would treat any other country, including in assessing something like international humanitarian law and its compliance with that law.
I would invite people to read the report. They can see for themselves everything that we've laid out in the report. The report also makes clear that this is an incredibly complex military environment. You have an enemy that intentionally embeds itself with civilians hiding under and within schools, mosques, apartment buildings, firing at the Israeli forces from those places.
It's very, very difficult in the heat of war to make a definitive assessment about any individual incident. But what the report concludes is that based on the totality of the harm that's been done to children, to women, to men who are caught in this crossfire from Hamas's making, it's reasonable to conclude that there are instances where Israel has acted in ways that are not consistent with international humanitarian law. At the same time, Kristen, we continue to look at investigate each of these incidents, but critically, so does Israel. There are hundreds, as we understand it, of open inquiries into particular incidents that have taken place since October 7th.
There are criminal investigations that are going forward. Israel, unlike many other countries, has both the means and the will to try to police itself. So we need to let those play out. But our own process that has been underway for many months to look at individual incidents, that will continue as well.
And when we can reach definitive conclusions, we will. But it's very difficult to do that in the midst of a war. And I hear you saying how complex the situation is on the ground. But here we are in the seventh month of this war.
Mr. Secretary, how is it possible that the State Department, with all of its resources, was not able to reach a definitive conclusion on this critical question of whether Israel has violated international law? Again, precisely because we continue to be in the midst of that war and making these assessments in real time when we don't have people on the ground, when we also have to make sure that we're getting information from all concerned, that takes time. And we want to make sure that we can reach definitive conclusions.
But as the report makes clear, given the totality of the damage that's been done to civilians, to children, to women, to men, given that, given the fact that Israel clearly has procedures, rules, regulations, laws that go into the targeting decisions they make, the way they conduct themselves, but the results that we've seen in terms of the horrible loss of life of innocent civilians, it's reasonable to assess, as we say in the report, that there are instances where they've acted inconsistent with their obligations under international humanitarian law. Those investigations continue both by us and by Israel. Let's zoom out a little bit and talk about U.S. policy.
The U.S. has urged Israel not to invade Rafah, yet troops are already on the ground. And this weekend, we learned that over 300,000 people are being evacuated. President Biden threatened to withhold certain weapons if Netanyahu goes into Rafah in a full-scale invasion, while at the same time sending in other weapons.
Big picture, why should Israel believe that the U.S. is willing to back up its threats? Well, first, let's step back for one minute. No one has done more to defend Israel when it mattered than President Biden.
He was there in the days after October 7th, the first president to go to Israel in the midst of a conflict. When Iran mounted an unprecedented attack on Israel some weeks ago, 300 projectiles, including ballistic missiles, launched at Israel, the United States for the first time ever participated in its active defense. And President Biden brought together a coalition of countries that helped defend Israel. So no one has done more than Joe Biden.
At the same time, what we've seen over the last few months is a deep concern on our part about the possibility of a major military operation in Rafah, given the damage it would do to civilians. There are more than 1.4 million Gazans in Rafah, most of whom have moved from other parts of Gaza. Absent a credible plan to get them out of harm's way and to support them, the president's been clear for some time that we couldn't and would not support a major military operation in Rafah. Now, at the same time, we share Israel's objective of making sure that Hamas cannot govern Gaza anymore, that it be demilitarized Put down his weapons, and all of this would have been over.
It still has that possibility. The quickest way for this to end is for Hamas to give up the hostages. We will get a ceasefire that we can build on and build to something more lasting and more durable. The different teams continue to talk.
It remains our view that the fastest way to get to a ceasefire, the fastest way to get hostages home, is through an agreement, and we're determined every single day to pursue that and to try to get it to happen. I think you can question whether Hamas actually wants to get this. It would also be the best way to make sure that we can really surge humanitarian assistance and better protect civilians in Gaza. Hamas purports to be interested in that.
Its actions certainly demonstrate the opposite. All right. Secretary Blinken, thank you so much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it.
When we come back, Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont joins me next. Drive off in a new Hyundai Elantra today with zero dollars down during the Hyundai Advantage Sales Event. Take advantage of the $1,000 Spring Drive bonus and lease the 2026 Elantra Essential for just $73 weekly at 4.99% for 60 months. And you're covered by Elantra's best-in-class 5-year new car warranty.
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Welcome back. As tensions on college campuses mount, students protested the war in Gaza at commencement ceremonies across the country on Saturday from Berkeley, California to Chapel Hill, North Carolina and Madison, Wisconsin. Dozens of students walked out of the Virginia Commonwealth University ceremony as Governor Glenn Youngkin delivered the commencement address there. Joining me now is the Independent Senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders.
Senator Sanders, welcome back to Meet the Press. Good to be with you. Well, we appreciate your being here on a busy Sunday morning. I want to start with your reaction to that State Department report and what you just heard from the Secretary of State who defended the report, the fact that there was no definitive conclusion drawn.
He also said he has not seen a definitive plan from Israel to go into Rafa without mitigating civilian casualties. What was your takeaway, Senator? Well, Kristen, I have a lot of respect for Tony Blinken. He has an impossibly difficult job.
But the reality is, as I think any objective observer knows, Israel has broken international law. It has broken American law. And in my view, Israel should not be receiving another nickel in U.S. military aid.
Look, the facts are quite clear. Hamas is a terrible, disgusting terrorist organization that began this war. But what Israel has done over the last seven months is not just gone to war against Hamas. It has gone to war against the entire Palestinian people.
And the results have been absolutely catastrophic. I mean, Kristen, we're talking about not just 35,000 Palestinians dead and 77,000 wounded. Two-thirds of whom are women and children. That is not the way you conduct a war in a civilized society to the degree that war is civilized.
We're talking about 60% of the housing in Gaza having been destroyed. The civilian infrastructure, that's water, that is raw sewage now running out into the streets. No electricity. You are talking about a systematic destruction of the healthcare system there.
Every university in Gaza has been bombed. And right now, most frighteningly, according to the humanitarian organizations, we are looking at the likelihood of hundreds of thousands of children facing starvation. The Foreign Assistance Act is very, very clear. 6201, the provision.
Any entity, any state, any country that blocks U.S. humanitarian aid is in violation of law and should not continue to receive military aid from the United States. That is precisely what Israel has done. Senator, let me just press you a bit because I hear you saying you believe Israel shouldn't receive another cent.
And yet, 26 House Democrats wrote a letter to the White House saying they are, quote, deeply concerned about the message the administration is sending to Hamas and other Iranian-backed terrorist proxies. Does withholding weapons to Israel run the risk of prolonging this war and weakening Israel's hand against Hamas? No, well, I understand. Look, every Republican, as I understand it, wants to give huge amounts of money to Israel.
My guess is that many Republicans want Israel to go into Rafa despite the incredible humanitarian destruction that will cause. And there are Democrats who also feel that way. But this is what I will tell you, Kristen. That is not what the American people feel.
Poll after poll suggests that the American people want an immediate ceasefire. They want massive humanitarian aid to get in. People of our country do not want to be complicit in the starvation of hundreds of thousands of children. And by the way, when we talk about the international community, we are increasingly isolated in terms of our support for Israel, who is becoming a pariah nation.
But Senator, I mean, is there a non-military way to get rid of Hamas, given the threat that they pose, given that they say their very goal is to destroy Israel's existence? You're right. You're absolutely right. Look, Hamas is a...
That is exactly right. That is their goal. It is difficult. I don't want to minimize this.
So the goal is to defeat Hamas, but not to destroy or cause the enormous amount of destruction that we're now seeing in Gaza. And I hope that the future for the Palestinian people is a new generation of Palestinian leaders who focus on allowing the people to have a state of their own. We've got to support a two-state solution, improving the economy, rebuilding the economy. That's the long-term goal.
Senator, I have to ask you about some comments you made this week saying that the Middle East, the Israel-Hamas war, could be Biden's Vietnam, arguing politically speaking this could cost him the election. In the wake of Biden's new warning to Israel, do you stand by those comments or do you think that the landscape has now changed? Well, I certainly support the president saying that it is absurd to provide Israel with 2,000-pound bombs which could level an entire square block in the midst of Rafa, which is an incredibly densely populated area. So the president is clearly right.
What I worry about is that this war in Gaza right now is not only strongly opposed by young people, but a whole lot of people in the Democratic base. So you still think this could be his Vietnam? I am strongly supporting... Do you still think this could be his Vietnam?
I am... Look, I am strongly supporting the president because on many domestic issues he's done an excellent job. But I think there are a lot of people in the Democratic base who are concerned about what he is... his support for Israel in this war.
Senator, very quickly, you have talked about and you announced this week that you are running for re-election. Of course, this comes... you are 82 years old. I don't have to tell you this, but age is obviously a big issue in the presidential election.
Are you concerned that age could be a political liability for you? Well, look, I think age is a factor. Experience is a factor. Accomplishment is a factor.
And most importantly, a factor in politics is what do you believe in? And I would hope that the people of Vermont and the people of the United States look at candidates in their totality. But I should also tell you, I would not have run... announced re-election, my intention to seek re-election, unless I felt pretty good.
With the exception of a week off of COVID, I've not missed a day of work in the last three years. I'm feeling pretty good. That is what your staff says, that you never take a vacation. We're almost out of time.
Let me try one more time. Just yes or no. Do you still think that the Israel-Hamas war runs the risk of potentially being Biden's Vietnam? I think there are a lot of people who are very disappointed.
Well, it's hurting him politically. Yes, of course it is. OK, there you have it. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for joining me this morning.
I really appreciate the conversation. And when we come back, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina joins me next. Welcome back. Senate Republicans are criticizing President Biden for pausing the delivery of high payload bombs to Israel.
At a Wednesday hearing on the Defense Department budget, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham grilled Pentagon leaders. If we stop weapons necessary to destroy the enemies of the state of Israel at a time of great peril, we will pay a price. This is obscene. It is absurd.
Give Israel what they need to fight the war they can't afford to lose. This is Hiroshima and Nagasaki on steroids. And Senator Lindsey Graham joins me now. Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press.
Happy Mother's Day. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that very much. Look, you have been quite clear, as we just heard there, that you are opposed to President Biden's threat to withhold military aid if Israel does invade Rafa.
But let me ask you this question. Why shouldn't Israel's war against Hamas proceed in a more precise way with a clear plan to mitigate civilian deaths in Gaza? Well, I think it's impossible to mitigate civilian deaths in Gaza as long as Hamas uses their own population as human shields. I've never seen in history of warfare such blatant efforts by an enemy, Hamas, to put civilians at risk.
And the last thing you want to do is reward this behavior. They put weapons in mosques. They fire artillery rounds from apartment buildings. They put command centers under hospitals to maximize civilian casualties, as Israel tries to destroy the terrorist group.
You don't want to reward this by restricting weapons to the victim of their attack. But let me just say this. Shut these people down. This decision was political.
He's trying to appease the radical left Bidenists. Senator, just to be clear, the administration's position is not to cut off every nickel. And I guess the question is, why does Israel need the most massive bombs that can potentially level an entire block in order to wage this war? Why can't it be more precise?
Listen, you know, here's what I would say about fighting an enemy who wants to kill you and your family. Why did we drop two bombs, nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to end a war that we couldn't afford to lose? You don't understand, apparently, what Israel is facing. They're facing three groups.
Iran, who has received $80 billion in aid. When Trump left office, they were exporting 300 barrels of oil a day. Now they're at 1.3 million a day. They've been enriched by Biden.
They're taking that money to kill all the Jews. So when we were faced with destruction as a nation after Pearl Harbor, fighting the Germans and the Japanese, we decided to end the war by bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear weapons. That was the right decision. Give Israel the bombs they need to end the war they can't afford to lose and work with them to minimize casualties.
Senator, military officials would argue that there has been so much technology since those bombs were dropped, that for that very reason, that is why Israel and other developed countries can be more precise. But let me ask it this way, because President Biden is not the first president to use armed shipments to try to influence Israeli policy. As you know, former President Ronald Reagan, on multiple occasions, withheld weapons to impact Israel's military actions. Did President Reagan show that using U.S.
military aid as leverage can actually be an effective way to rein in and impact Israel's policy? When you're telling the world you're going to restrict weapons delivery to the Jewish state who is fighting a three-front war for their survival, it emboldens Iran. It emboldens Hamas. Sinwar is probably juiced up on the idea of there's daylight between the United States and Israel.
The hostage deal is harder. This is the worst decision in the history of the U.S.-Israel relationship to deny weapons at a time the Jewish state could be destroyed. So here's what I would say. There is some hope we can get over this.
Non-negotiable to the destruction of Hamas. Nobody in Israel will allow Hamas to be standing militarily or politically when this is over. How we get there is subject to negotiation. My problem is not with the weapons that Israel is using.
My problem is with the tactics that Hamas is using and the idea that America would not send a nickel of aid echoed by a United States senator when all the Jews are trying to be killed by radical Islamic groups tells us where we're at as a nation. The Republican Party is with Israel without apology. Historians would say, why is it okay for Reagan to do it and not President Biden? But let me ask you about the big deal.
Can I say this? Why is it okay for America to drop two nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end their existential threat war? Why was it okay for us to do that? I thought it was okay.
So Israel, do whatever you have to do to survive as a Jewish state. Senator, again, military officials say technology has changed. But let me ask you about how all this could be impacted. Let me ask you something that I know you care a lot about, and that is the Saudi normalization deal.
How would a ground invasion into Rafa impact what you believe is critical, getting a deal for normalization in the region with Saudi Arabia? Really good question. Number one, I want to keep pursuing this because you asked Tony a good question. What happens the day after?
To my friends in Israel, what happens the day after? To Tony, what happens the day after? I want the Arab world, the UAE and Saudi Arabia to come in and give the Palestinian people hope once we destroy Hamas. I want normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
And that's the worst nightmare for Iran. That's why October 7th, I think, happened. Here's what's happening. When you deny weapons, Israel weapons, the Saudis are beginning to wonder, are we a good ally?
Should I sign up to this? Will they turn on me if I get in a conflict? So I think the biggest threat to the deal is to use Rafa invasion. The deal is a negotiating tool to back Israel off.
I am still going to pursue the deal. I hope we can get this issue with the weapons transfers behind us and we can get back on setting the conditions where we can normalize between Saudi Arabia and Israel. And it's part of that having new Palestinian opportunity where they'll have a better life where the Arabs help them rebuild Gaza and the West Bank with a new governing structure. I'm not giving up on that.
I've just never been more worried about the signals we're sending to our enemies than I am right now. What we're doing to Israel is unconscionable and it needs to stop. We need to be with Israel without apology. Very quickly, Senator, before I let you go, a quick question about 2024.
Will you accept the results of the 2024 election no matter who wins? Yeah, I'll accept it. I think, you know, there's no massive cheating. I accept it 2020.
Here's what I would say. President Trump is poised to win. He said last night when it comes to Israel, I will have their back. I'll give them what they need.
Bernie Sanders is wrong about the polling here. Most Americans, 80%, side with Israel. The 20%, unfortunately, are in Congress and the State Department that side with Hamas. That's the problem with this war.
All right, Senator Sanders, we are out of time. Senator Graham, I should say, you just invoked the other senator's name. We are out of time. We're often confused.
We're often confused. Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you so much for having us on. Thank you very much. Appreciate you joining us.
When we come back, Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps opens up about his struggles with depression. Welcome back. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and 23-time gold medalist Michael Phelps, the most decorated Olympian of all time, is opening up about his battle with depression. Phelps sat down with me for a Meet the Moment conversation and talked about how he came to grips with his mental health struggles and his advocacy on behalf of others.
When did you first realize you were really struggling with depression? I would say probably 2004. 2004 was my first taste of post-Olympic depression. You know, coming off such a high, it's basically you get to like the edge of the cliff and you're like, cool, now what?
I guess I got to wait four more years to have a chance to do it again, right? So, and for those who don't have a successful Olympics, those four years can feel like an absolute eternity. So for me, 2004 was my first. 2008 was my second taste of post-Olympic depression.
Because coming off of that high, after doing something you set out, like you set out to do your whole entire life. Like my goal was to do something no one else had ever done before. And I did it by the age of 19, 20 or something. Did you know it was depression or did you just think I'm feeling a little off?
I think at that point, you know, like I'll say as a male athlete, you know, like I could tell something was off, but I think I saw it as a sign of weakness. And if I shared anything about it, then it would give my competitors an edge. And I'm not trying to do that, right? Like I don't want to give my competitors an edge.
I'm trying to be better than anybody period has ever been. So for me, I looked at it as weakness. So for me, I had to learn that vulnerability is a good thing. And it was scary at first, but I learned that vulnerability just means change.
And for me, it was a great change. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call or text 988 or chat at 988lifeline.org. You can see much more of my conversation with Michael Phelps next Sunday, right here on Meet the Press and tune into the Paris Olympics this summer on NBC and Peacock.
When we come back, Donald Trump's former attorney, Michael Cohen, is expected to take the stand this week. The panel is next. Welcome back. The panel is here.
NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba, Jen Psaki, former White House press secretary, host of Inside with Jen Psaki and author of the new book Say More Lessons from Work, the White House and the World. And Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. And Jen, here we have your book with us. Thank you.
Happy Mother's Day to you and Monica. We'll have a signing after the show. Monica, start us off. Set the table here.
Obviously, this extraordinary warning by President Biden this week saying that he would cut off military aid. It's been obviously the focus of all of these conversations I've had this morning. What prompted him to make that warning this week? Was it the buildup of political pressure?
Was it his own frustration with Israel? The White House officials will tell you that for decades, this president makes foreign policy decisions based on national security and not on politics. But in all my conversations with Biden advisors over the course of this consequential last week, they concede that it is impossible to ignore the political ramifications here. And they certainly talk about that in the context of this policy shift, of drawing that line as you were discussing.
And it is very notable. They point out that Israel has the weapons it needs to go forward with this full scale In mid-June in Los Angeles, and there's also going to be a fundraiser with former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton early this summer. They see a direct line from huge halls from events like that to being able to build infrastructure, open offices, hire key staff, run ads in those critical battleground states where, yes, some of those young voters who are so disillusioned with what they're seeing right now with the president's handling of the war could be critical and it could make all the difference. So they're going to go all in on that.
Stephen, of course, the backdrop to the Biden campaign kind of relying on this celebrity power is we are seeing Donald Trump in court day after day this week, Michael Cohen takes the stand this past week. Stormy Daniels, the adult film star at the center of his hush money trial, was on the stand. He was in New Jersey overnight campaigning, taking aim at these legal battles. How do you see this all playing out moving forward?
Do you think these legal battles will alienate some of those critical independent women moderate voters that he needs to win? Yeah, I think they might. We will. If you look at the speech that he gave in Wildwood, New Jersey last night, he was giving a speech to his base.
He's trying to rally his base. It was very clear that he was saying, look, this is Joe Biden's doing. This is the Justice Department. This is keeping me from campaigning.
This is election interference. And that is a message that his base not only is receptive to, but rallies to. But I think there's a huge risk here. You're talking about a trial that involves hush money payments to a porn star that he had a fling with while he was cheating on his wife.
Like that is not the thing you want in the news to appeal to those kinds of voters. And Jen, the voters, the critical voters are, quite frankly, those Nikki Haley voters. She's got a lot of buzz. Could she potentially be Trump's running mate?
He says, no, he's not considering her. But those are the voters that could make all the difference in this election. There's a lot of it's gonna be a close race around six states. Everything makes a difference, to be clear.
But to Monica's point, the Biden team feels they can they can already do the organizational stuff that the Trump team is going to be a little behind on. Definitely the fundraising is going to close, as Monica has reported. Just to add to what Stephen pointed out, I mean, there's been polls that suggest that if Trump is convicted, it could make a difference. I guess we'll see in terms of how people perceive it.
But I think to suggest that you have a woman on a stand, I recognize she's a former film star. She talked about blacking out when the former president of the United States was having sex with her. She talked about that. This is the same man who also thinks women should make choices about their own health care.
Those things do impact people or to suggest that they don't, I think, may be underestimating the movement of women. We'll see. But I think the character aspect of this trial, that that's what's interesting to me to see how that impacts people. The polls just getting tighter.
You guys, fantastic conversation. Really appreciate it. And again, happy Mother's Day. Hope you all have a great day.
Thank you. Thank you. And that is all for today. Thank you so much for watching.
Happy Mother's Day to all of you moms out there. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention.
They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Mankiewicz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all-new podcast from Dateline.
Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.