And now, the Low Post. Welcome to the Low Post podcast on a Monday morning where you thought we were done with them. You thought we could leave them in the rearview mirror. You thought the L word.
We didn't get to talk about the L word anymore. Two and ten. No trade could even vault them into mediocrity. Should they trade Anthony Davis?
What about LeBron? Should they trade LeBron? Is LeBron going to leave? When Bronny comes in the league, it's over.
Well, well, well. Just what you thought. It was safe to go back in the water. The Los Angeles Lakers are eight and two in their last ten games.
They're up to 12th in the Western media, 11th actually in the Western Conference, but only three and a half games out of fourth or fifth. They have the third best offense in the NBA in that eight and two stretch. That was obviously their weak link. They're up to a robust 22nd in points per possession for the season.
Hurrah, hurrah. That's an Orlando Magic-level offensive efficiency. They're still 10th in defense. That is held strong.
And I said two things before the season, Dave McMenamin. First of all, how are you, Dave McMenamin? Zach, I'm doing well. I'm feeling the holiday spirit coming upon us, and it's much more enjoyable to cover a team with a shred of hope than a team that is hanging out at two and ten.
Shred of hope. I said two things over and over again before the season. Number one, all the noise about Russ, bad fit, supporting cast, can't shoot, too small. None of it matters if LeBron and Anthony Davis are not gods.
The whole thing depends on them being gods. If they're the seventh and the 20th best players in the NBA, forget about it. It's over. If they're the fifth and eighth best players in the NBA, you got something going on.
No matter what the rest of the noise is, you got something going on. And then I said, all summer, all fall, get ready for the Anthony Davis vengeance season. It's coming. And boy, oh boy, I took notes.
I took notes at who mocked me. I have the tweets saved. Oh, Zach Lowe, Anthony Davis fell down again. Out for another two games.
Vengeance season, huh? Well, here we are. Anthony Davis, since November 12th, is averaging 35 points per game. He leads the league in rebounding.
He is shooting 65% from the floor in that stretch, 46% on threes. He just hung 55, a double nickel on the hapless pink clad Washington Wizards. And boy, oh boy, this is a vengeance season. And they're creeping up the standings.
The Pacers are creeping down the standings. The Bulls are pratfalling down the standings. And so life is getting a little more interesting, Dave McMinn. But let's just have a caveat.
Do we have a caveat real fast? Yes, we shall. Let me bust out my Grinch. The eight wins in this stretch for the Lakers have come against Brooklyn without Kyrie and Ben Simmons.
Detroit without Kate Cunningham. A trifecta against the Spurs, who are going all out for Wim and Yama. Including one of those games against the Spurs, where Sochan and Pertle were both playing good games, and all of a sudden came up with a serious quad injuries and didn't fit in this game. The old quad.
The old quad. The old quad. Portland without Damian Lillard and Josh Hart. The Wizards and Bradley Beal left the game like two minutes into the game.
And of course, the Bucs on Friday when Anthony Davis had 41. That was a monster win against the full-strength Bucs. Chris Milton was back. That was a great, great win.
So you can read this any way you want. If you're a Lakers hater, you can laugh at this entire idea that there's been a run of some. You can laugh it all off. Look at the schedule.
Schedule's about to get even tougher. Much tougher. Or you can actually watch the games and think, hmm, yeah, the schedule's a schedule, but Anthony Davis looks pretty good. Russ off the bench has been, I will say, acceptable.
They have seemed to figure out some things about their rotation and how it should work. For instance, the Russ-Anthony Davis lineups without LeBron, those are a net positive on the season now. The LeBron-Anthony Davis lineups without Russ, those are a net positive for the season now. Both of those types trending in the right direction.
The big three is still kind of hit or miss. Sometimes I only play six, seven minutes in a game together, so it doesn't really matter. The Russ-Anthony Davis pick and roll is becoming a legitimate weapon, and we can talk about the numbers behind that. I think the eye test suggests this isn't just a schedule fluke.
I don't know that I'm buying, like, eight and two, suddenly they're a juggernaut, but something real is happening here. And the last thing before I turn over to you, David, is you look at their offensive numbers. There's nothing really that streams fluke in any of their offensive numbers. They were already really good at getting to the line and limiting turnovers.
They've just gotten better at both of those things in the last 10 games. Their three-point shooting has bumped up, but it's not been, like, absurd. They're shooting 37% on threes in their last 10 games, 33% for the season. 37% is not, like, ridiculous.
It's not some crazy outlier number. Now, Lonnie Walker can't miss lately. Maybe that steps back a little bit, but they're still last in three-point attempts in that stretch. They're still first in rim attempts in that stretch.
Their mid-range shooting, that's increased from 39% for the season to 42% in the last 10 games. Again, like, not ridiculous. They're sort of doubling down on their strengths and just refining things, getting a little better at everything. Like, I don't think anything, I don't think they have the third best offense in the NBA, but nothing about this surge looks completely fluky.
So you're around the team all the time. How do they feel about this? There's a surge of confidence with this group, and it starts with the demeanor and approach that Anthony Davis is bringing to the court, and then I'd say the same type of consistency coming from Darbenham and LeBron, quite frankly, as the leaders of this team. And we know that LeBron is someone who can kind of wear his emotions on his sleeve at times, but starting with him going out of the lineup with a groin injury, he became more engaged with this group.
More vocal on the bench, more vocal in film sessions, more encouraging of teammates in their individual workouts and practices, those type of things. And he carries such a presence to him that people feel how he's feeling. And he has made an adjustment in terms of how he is bringing energy to this group. They're feeding off it once he's come back to the lineup.
He's playing much better. His three-point shot is starting to fall at an acceptable rate when it was dismal his first 11 games of the season or so before he had that groin injury. And they are cutting out, as Darbenham likes to turn themselves in collected wounds. They're not turning the ball over as much, which is not putting them in compromised positions when it comes to transition defense.
And allowing teams to have three-on-two and four-on-three fast breaks, shoving down their throats every other possession. And then just someone else's demeanor who has fell on the court, I would say, is Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook is playing with a joy. He's playing with some excitement and certainly playing with some pace.
That is something that Russ has been asking for ever since he got here. Didn't quite ever find that rhythm last year with last year's team. This year, he has started to not only take the ball and run with it in the second unit, but find guys who now buy into him as that guy. Thomas Bryant, his entire second Laker experience this time around, he's owing his success to Russell Westbrook because Russell Westbrook's looking for him.
Those things matter because now Russell Westbrook has an ally in the locker room that's going to lift him up when the leaders get together and have these accountability conversations. Well, there's some people on Russ's side as well as those other guys' side when they start to have the hard conversation. Hopefully, there's no sides. Hopefully, we can get out of sides.
But man, you think back, the summer league snub when LeBron said hi to everybody, probably including whatever mascot was running around summer league and not Russ, to the Russ just obvious discontent with coming off the bench. The whole idea in preseason of coming off the bench, blaming his, what was it? Was it a quad? Was it a hamstring?
I can't remember what it was. Some leg injury. It was hamstring, yeah. My warm-up routine that I've had for 15 years was disrupted, and that was an obvious passive aggressive shot at Darvin Ham and the idea of him coming off the bench.
You have to give Russ credit. Now, maybe he saw the writing on the wall that Darvin Ham was not going to yield. Maybe he saw that the whole league was watching and that his career was entering a phase of uncertainty if he didn't buy in. But he's bought in.
Off the bench, he's averaging 15 and 8 on 42% shooting, 34% on threes. Not great. Still too many turnovers. But 42 and 34 is good enough.
It's good enough. It's not damaging. And the 8 assists, he's passing really, really well. Really well.
And they found this rotation where he comes in and LeBron goes out, and you have some Russ AD minutes. And then AD goes out, and the Gabriel Bryant frontcourt comes in, and so you have some Russ solo minutes. And you might not even cycle back LeBron and Russ together for the entire first half of the game if things are going well. So you've minimized the overlap between Russ and LeBron in a way that's working for everybody, including, here's a stat.
I looked this up today because I was watching their Wizards game. And Russ and AD were just tearing the Wizards apart. Now, the Wizards are not. There's no great shakes.
But Russ and AD were tearing them apart on that little angle, wing, pick and roll, where it's almost sometimes like a post-up into a pick and roll. LeBron and AD do this all the time. I call it the snug pick and roll. They were doing it against the Bucs, and Jeff Van Gunn, he was talking about it during the game, over and over again.
And the Lakers have been very smart about using that play, setting low screens for Russ, like setting screens at the foul line for Russ, and other little gambits that make it hard for defenses to just go under the screen on Russ, which is what they want to do. And AD is really good at kind of rolling into Russ's defenders so that if he tries to go under, he just kind of shoves them further and further into the paint, and it becomes impossible for him to meet Russ on the other end. Since November 12th, when this streak started, Russ and AD have run 32 pick and rolls per 100 possessions. That's double, double the frequency per possession from before November 12th, and obviously LeBron being out for part of that, impacted that.
But it's really, it's continued, and it's way higher than it was like 18, 19, 20 last season. And those plays have been really productive for them. And Russ's post-ups have been like hilariously productive. They're averaging 1.4 points per possession when he shoots out of a post-up or passes to somebody, and that guy shoots.
That's like, it's not pretty. I don't ever think it's going to be a great fit between the three of them. The Lakers clearly don't think that because they only play 8, 9, 10 minutes together. But you've got to give credit.
I've been really hard on Russ over the years. Like, he's bought in, and his passing has been sensational. It's really been special. And you talk about Anthony Davis being the guy that is lifting this team out of the doldrums.
Russell Westbrook, I believe the numbers around 2.6 assists per game are to Anthony Davis. So he is directly helping the guy that is turning this thing around. How smart is that, right? That is recognizing what you have to work with here.
And that's creating value out of the roster that exists. And if you're Russell Westbrook, that's your best case to try to make it to the end of the season and play out the rest of this contract. Had you mentioned pace? They're second in the league in pace.
Only Indiana has played faster than them. And like, that's not how LeBron has played the majority of his career. And they're way faster when Russ is on. Their pace with Russ on the floor is like astronomical.
And their pace when he's on the bench is fast, but not crazy. But even so, that's LeBron kind of seeding something to the structure of the team. Because he has never loved playing turbo, turbo, turbo all the time. And they're playing fast when he's on the floor.
And they've done this in the last week, too. They're starting to play around with his own defense. And one of the benefits of the zone, other than it hides all your bad slow, ground-bound, small, tiny defenders, is that when you get a rebound and push, all the matchups are kind of scrambled. Everyone's not attached to the right guy.
And you can run off that. And they're running off. I was actually wanting to ask you, because if you look at the numbers, they didn't play any zone until like two, three weeks ago. And now they're busting it out.
I think it's kind of working. The numbers aren't great, but it's a little tool for them. Yeah, sorry. They've used it a lot in the first half against Washington.
And obviously lost in the shuffle of the excitement of the double nickel from Anthony Davis. We had more pressing things to ask Darvin Hamm about. But to me, the question that we got around to was, how much is that you started to expand the playbook? Because Darvin was pretty open about the fact that he was not trying to put too much on their plate as he got through the first month or so of just figuring out a rotation and figuring out some sort of cohesion with what he wants them to do.
And how much of the Wizards are not a good outside shooting team. And playing zone, you're kind of asking teams to launch it from there. I'm almost wondering why teams don't play more zone against the Lakers to that point. Right.
But last year, you did see more teams playing zone against them. I haven't seen it a ton this year, but it's a good point. Look, I can hear the eye rolling from the fans of the other 29 teams. Oh my God.
Another podcast about a below 500 Lakers team. No one's running away with the West. The Suns are 16-7. They're awesome.
The best teams are not super scared of Phoenix. The Pelicans are number two in the West. They look, I mean, Zion, a brief New Orleans Pelicans detour right now. McCollum, Ingram, Zion have not even played that much together.
And they're 15-8. And Zion, I had Andrew Lopez on a few weeks ago. And I said to him, I feel like they just kind of need to run more of the offense through Zion. Like, it's a little too hard.
There are a few too many, like, tough CJ McCollum and Brandon Ingram jumpers when you have this, like, Lawrence Taylor, Bo Jackson, Charles Barkley combination on the floor. And he said, just watch. The Zion pick and rolls are about to go up. The post-ups are about to go up.
I mean, that guy, if he can stay healthy, is going to enter that pantheon of guys who, when you scout them for a seven-game series and have to deal with them for a seven-game series, is just going to be hell. Just hell on wheels to deal with. They look really, really good. Denver, every time you think they're getting it together, they kind of take a couple of bad losses.
They lost in New Orleans in the Jose Alvarado bonanza on Sunday. I mean, look, roll your eyes. When they see him hitting little floaters in isolations and looking smooth again, when they see him playing defense like this, and we should talk about that, his defense has been special all season long. You think they're rolling their eyes at the Lakers?
Because I'll tell you right now, they're not. Nobody, nobody, even if you're favored against them, even if you think their supporting cast stinks, even if you think their supporting cast can't shoot, and it's three little guards around LeBron and AD, and it's too small, even if they don't make a trade between now and then, and we'll talk about that too. This Anthony Davis, even with this LeBron James, who's older, shooting more threes, maybe not quite as fearsome. Oh, they're still pretty goddamn fearsome.
Dave, I mean, you see these guys, when people see LeBron at the rim on defense, there were like three instances just last night in Washington where there was a fast break, and LeBron's near the rim, and oh my God, I gotta pass it out. I don't want to even touch this guy. This Anthony Davis and this LeBron James, nobody is excited to play them in the playoffs. So you can roll your eyes all you want.
The league is watching the Lakers now, and at the very least, even the skeptics, even the skeptics are like, hmm, I gotta kind of start paying attention to what's going on here, because this is getting interesting. And AD, you just can't say enough. The numbers are just crazy. I mean, is he, and I mentioned the fluidity with the ball.
Has he gotten healthier? Has he gotten more confident? Is it just that he got to play without LeBron? What happened?
All of the above. He did get healthier. His lower back was barking at him from the preseason on to the start of the year. He ended up to miss one game, I think five or six games into it, and it was more egg in his face with probably more mentions on your Twitter timeline, because he was the guy who said, I want to play all 82, right?
That was his goal for the season. And there goes that goal at the window after just a handful of games. But there's been a shift, and it began, obviously, in the offseason. He was very intentional about getting his body into a better place to be able to withstand what the NBA schedule asks of you.
But there's also a direction in which he's playing where it's not settling. Look at these nine games. He's shooting 45% from three, but he's only taking 11 threes in those nine games. He's taking 91 free throws.
And that is, there are open looks he's getting from the perimeter, but instead, he's putting it on the floor, compromising the defense, drawing contact, and then once he gets to the free throw line, making his shots, 88% over the stretch. And to me, that is just showing seriousness about the task at hand, because it is a concentration thing. Anthony Davis' shot is good enough to be making these shots, but you have to put yourself in the right mental state. base he certainly is it's a dominant type of mentality where he is playing with a relentless energy of attacking the rim and it really opens up so much for the rest of the team and i think not only is lebron and anthony davis's play right now a reminder to the rest of the league that watch out the lakers in the west but it's a reminder to the corporate offices in el segundo california where the lakers front office make the decisions about this team's future that there is still a championship core in place with these guys and the words of dr jerry bust have they still echo through the lakers organization and his standpoint over the many many teams he presided over was if this team is a conference finalist and there's a marginal trade you can make that involves some risk perhaps involves taking out some more money perhaps involves expending future assets to do so you do it because if you view your group as a potential conference finalist it's worth it to go a little bit more in because it's all about trying to win right so if you review them as conference finals then that little push over the edge can make them in the nba finals and once you're there anything can happen and right now lebron and anthony davis looking like that they look like the best duo in the league so why not over nine games tatum and brown it's still 35 and 16 i guess you guys you guys see i mean first of all it's only been like 16 with lebron and ad probably right so i gotta see it first um for a little bit longer than this um so we learn something every 10 games right like every 10 games the league shifts a little bit and i mentioned okay the pacers everyone's gonna be a playoff team the pacers have played the easiest schedule in the entire league and they're down to one game over 500 they can get to six or seven worst record in the nba pretty easily if they want to i mentioned them because you wrote last week which the endless trade rumors the bulls have gone from well this isn't going that great to full-on just crisis like this is a crisis in chicago 9 and 14 is a crisis i mentioned that because of the derozan bucevich stuff that's never gonna go away with the lakers um and with the lakers obviously have surged in those last 10 games and so everything sort of can flip in that span what's gonna happen in the next 10 games is the lakers schedule is gonna be really tough we're gonna learn more about them than we know today the warriors seem to have found their footing at 13 and 11 are we gonna now we just talked about how the top of the west is a little bit wonky right is it with the warriors playing the way they are the clippers who are now on the verge of honestly taking over the next purchase like the greatest theoretical team that ever existed in the nba well they're about to be a little bit less theoretical because kawaii paul george are coming back can we see it my god is someone picked them to make the finals i feel like such a goddamn sucker can we see it for 10 games can we see it can we see i don't like a month a month forget a month a month is like an eternity can we see it for 10 games and then if we do and if they go eight and two and kawaii looks like 90 kawaii the west may feel a little bit more settled at the top than it does today but those are both big big ifs and we'll see what we learn about the lakers and everyone else in the west over the last 10 over the next 10 games just as though the landscape changed larger point you mentioned the c word championship conference finals as jumbled as the west is i can't i can't i can't conclude i'm sure lebron and ad think that because that's what they should think i can't get there yet given how easy the schedule is and given how bad they looked in starting two and ten i can't just wipe away two and ten as if it didn't exist and say this is now the team i can't quite get there um and and that brings us to trade stuff so you mentioned let me just let me just play devil advocate there though you are still allowing satan's advocate lucifer lucifer's advocate you are advocating for lucifer from the depths of hades if you're going to allow for your uh instinct on the clippers to come to fruition right and in some sense dismiss what has happened thus far in the season because what we've seen thus far in the season they don't look anything like that'd be a final team and by the way i also picked them to come out the west then why not allow for those first 12 games of the lakers to be a growing pain period with a new coach and a roster that only includes six players from last year's team i'll allow for that a little bit but it's all it's all like the clippers are 13 and 11 so they have a winning record they're a few games ahead of the lakers and they've at least proven like without our guys we can scrap together some wins and the supporting cast is better than the lakers but that's a fair point like i said i feel like a sucker i feel like every year i'm like oh i'm gonna look at the depth robert covington is robert covington gonna get minutes this year oh my god nick platoon went 0 for 2 in 28 minutes again wow so i look i'm with you i'm with you if you if you force me to pick a team to win the west right now that's actually a good exercise if you for right now the data you have who do you pick to win the west i have no goddamn idea i might just shrug my shoulders and pick phoenix i might pick i would you know who i probably pick is golden state but i could i could easily talk myself into the pelicans i mean why not i mean haven't you also been telling us an idea today every time you get like don't don't forget about denver i could pick denver but every time i mean michael porter's been injured so so that's a big deal for them and they need him they need his spacing that's what's been sort of laid bare in the last few and they had a bad loss in atlanta without trey young and that was a whole rigmarole for the hawks apparently um and they had a bad loss in new orleans uh so every time you think they're catching a rhythm it's like okay here goes denver again hey sports fans the espn app has all of espn all in one place the espn app is your home to thousands of live events espn shows and originals across every espn network and service now you can check if you already have espn unlimited as part of your tv package for no additional calls visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in the espn app it's all of the espn all in one place sign up for activate now trades that's what we're gonna talk about the front office uh you wrote a big thing last week in the lead up to the pacers game about um this this sort of theoretical two picks and russ for healed and turner um i i don't think anything's changed in that context i don't think the pacers are ready to go there yet i think it would definitely take both picks for them to even start considering it and i do think they're considering a miles turner extension instead of trading a couple of so we mentioned the bulls one um there's a charlotte one that we can talk about and as you wrote in your piece very pre-preciently i don't know um there's also this alternative where they try to trade none plus beverly who's been not good for them and plus one pick for a a less sort of starry return like just one good player maybe who can step in and play immediately and that still gives you even if you maybe you can even do it for like a four second round because they have a lot of seconds they can trade that still gives you the option of like if that deal works well we still have the russ and pick or picks deal down the line if we want to um i want you to talk about the trades in this context because a couple of interesting things have happened number one russ's playmaking feels important to their team like fit flaws shooting lebron needs a playmaker around him he needs multiple playmakers around him is dennis schroeder enough that's number one number two ad is doing this as a full-time center full stop period he's never playing before so if you're going to talk about bringing vucevic for instance into this team ad is playing the four now like you're going to just roll vucevic at the five and what that does to your defense um and ad is going to chase around power forwards and take him away from the rim where he's been extraordinary all season um miles turner he's a five now he's better able to chase around fours he's done a little bit of that is that really what you want in that context it almost feels like the kind of smaller trade you mentioned would aim more towards like a combo forward more than a center i just think it's like you can talk about purdle and the spurt it's like ad is thriving at the five and they need playmaking i think it complicates even at indiana trade a little bit what do you what do you make of all that well i think there's a bunch of things considered here one just starting with indiana if you trade for those two guys yes the idea of you taking ad away from the position he's been thriving in doesn't make a ton of sense but you also do know that anthony davis likes having a true center or another big next door miles turner shooting 39 percent of threes this year that's a little over his head but he's a capable shooter you trade for turner you're going to extend him you have to work since faster uh and then that's your guy that's your guy you're moving forward with uh and are we convinced based on his time in indiana that's someone the numbers certainly look good right now but is that going to be one of your centerpieces that you build around moving forward in la there's some reticence there then let's say you go into the indiana deal and parse it down to something smaller and you say you know what like that there is some risk there with turner we take ad away from the five and we don't know if we want to extend him let's just try to get healed in a smaller context well if he's your one guy right and this thing doesn't work out this thing ends up in a first round flame out second round flame out well now buddy healed we know how these things go buddy healed's left carrying the bag he was supposed to shake things up turn things around uh you could become a scapegoat and that's something remember when the pacers traded for evan turner is like their final piece move and it was like lakers traded for vermont sessions that was supposed to be the guy this just happened i need a second oh my god there was a first round pick in that deal right did luke walton get traded in that deal yeah it may have been the same deal yeah part of me says luke was not part of the deal but um let's just do 15 minutes revisiting that deal let's throw the whole podcast away vermont sessions where is he now anyway okay so so your heel becomes heel is too small like when they play these three guards around ad and lebron or or two guards with russ around the big three it's it can work because the two guys in the middle that are so good but you even saw last like kyle kuzman is just feasting would be a great fit in a great trade target for the lakers um it's just feasting with like hooks and floaters because austin reeds russell buzzer patrick beverly lonnie walker are too small they need one just one bigger guy who can shoot but like everybody needs that guy you're so right on kuzman though well why wouldn't you why wouldn't you offer why wouldn't you make an offer for kuzman now i i wonder about this like do you think that is something that is knowing your personnel knowing a player knowing their background knowing their personality fit recognizing that you know there are all those valuable things why you want to back or is that just like you can never swallow that because there's no room for pride when lebron is about to turn 38 if you think he's the guy call the wizards be like look you don't want to extend him we don't we don't know i'm just saying this like i'm playing you don't want to extend him none beverly four second round picks okay say no then we gotta start talking about first and what the protections are in the first and how uncomfortable that makes make the call what is there ain't got my face because kyle kuzman became really good with the wizards who cares well i do think that is a solution of a one-player addition that can have legitimate games for this group no question i mean another i'll go through some names that i just sort of made up and bounced around with league insiders kuzman was one that came up a lot doug mcdermott comes up i just don't they're not getting any defense it's just it's just i love what garvin ham even playing when it matters because you couldn't trust my defense and that that becomes the point of like is it really valuable if the coach won't use them when we need them on the court so i agree people mention uh i mean i'm not even gonna say the names because they're just so out of the lakers price range so i won't even say them um a guy i would make a call on is pj washington um because he's entering free agency after the season um can shoot although he went over 13 the other night and shoot can play some defense when he's engaged um kind of hit or miss on that end but it's a good young player who fits the positional framework that they need you mentioned personality dynamics mitch kupchak is the general manager of the hornets i don't think he's cutting the lakers any breaks in trade talks i don't think he's cutting rob linka any breaks in trade talks um kenrich williams comes up a lot with the thunder everything i've heard and this may be outdated is he does not want to ever leave oklahoma city and they view him as like potential like nick collison 2.0 in terms of building their culture so i mean i'd call but you know who knows the one other guy that we should mention is boyam boganovich in detroit who the whole league whiffed on um before the season detroit got him for olenic in a song um like seconds that's worth a meeting about i think if you call detroit and you're like done beverly and first and we'll have to negotiate protections on first because we're at risk of already giving away an embarrassing swap to the pelicans i think detroit if you throw the first in i think there's a i think there are negotiations to happen there around the protections i think that's realistic those are the names i came up with for the what cam reddish they seem to have an infatuation with cam reddish and whatever those are the names i came up with excluding the indiana deal the larger charlotte deal that has rozier and all this which i think is too complicated and would require both the picks and not worth it and the why it's so appealing in theory and i love the rose i think the rosen would fit with the lakers but vucevic i don't love so reddish we know there's no reasons why there's an infatuation there mostly because of the length and the athleticism and the three-point shooting um but also because of the business reasons like let's not be represented by clutch i don't even know yeah he is okay uh let's also bring up the fact that you know demardo rosen demeanor wise the place he's at his career the fact that he continues to bring up the lakers when doing interviews um and being quite open about how he thought that trade was going to happen and how he desired to be there like there's something there uh there's something to the fact that lebron went out for the drew league to play with the marter rose in the summer like those things they don't show up out of the air right uh so there's something there and you know i think there are some fit concerns if that was the guy because this three-point shooting traditionally hasn't been lights out and you know how you figure out the spacing if you like to live in the range you're gonna have the other guys working out of the post but i just feel like basketball q wise and kind of his approach to the game it would fit so well personality wise with lebron and ad that there could be a fit there i just don't know if it gives them ultimately everything they need i think like i do think the way this thing is trending is it will be the smaller type of deal for a role player or role players that will be the first domino to fall and they see how that looks and then there's still potential for a one pick russ thing that would happen afterwards but i don't think that's their preference i think their preference is to have the smaller deal be enough to get this team to another level and they continue to grow together and you know russ continues to parse down his self-inflicted wounds as arvinham likes to call them while bringing the positive parts of the game and then you have him come off the books or potentially you resign russ at a much more digestible number in the offseason and he's a potential trade moving forward what a plot twist that would be i my brain has never even contemplated russell westbrook on the los angeles lakers in 2023-24 that would be a happy little plot twist let's let's allow for some happiness let's get in the holiday spirit and allow for some happiness there are also some interesting little second draft candidates laying around like someone mentioned rui hachimura to me someone out with the lakers mentioned rui hachimura chumo kiki never stay selfie i don't know but december 15th is 10 days away you have mentioned that many mentioned that is that's when a lot of free agents that were signed become trade eligible and we gotta start keeping our eye on the smaller deal now according to your reporting which is always bang on you've got to catch a flight to cleveland ohio anything else you want to get off your chest before we let you go to the airport oh wow that's such an open-ended question here zach i'm sure i could go through many things I just think like let's keep an eye on how just watch the games and watch LeBron and Anthony Davis by language it tells you so much and you'll see the belief factor with this group they'll tell you you can see with your own two eyes and if they have that they continue to have that and they're not going to win 8 out of 10 moving forward let's put that aside they're going to come back down to earth because the schedule is going to get harder but while you're watching you see two engaged players that are playing with an intentionality and aggression and a passion and a joy it's worth it for the Lakers to continue to enhance this game you know I'll check back with you in the next 10 days when the schedule gets a little harder I always tell people it's tempting to look at the West and stack them up team by team and say okay punch a chance punch a chance punch a chance you got to win three playoffs seriously out of the West you got to be I'm just making this up depending on where they get seeded you're talking like New Orleans, Denver, Golden State something like that as nice as 8-2 has looked and as nice as you can make it look when you go team by team winning 12 is just really really hard and I don't think they have the goods for that maybe even close to it right now but you never know if 8-2 is going to play like this it changes the entire the entire model of the team becomes valid again it was invalid when he was playing just pretty good and that 20th ranking in our ESPN 100 looked realistic now it's valid again Dave McMenamin coverage of the Lakers just absolutely second to none thank you for making a little time enjoy your continued jaunt around the Eastern Conference my friend appreciate it thanks though alright let's change gears from an older team trying really hard to win now to some of the youngest players in the NBA we are 20 plus games into the season it's time to look around and say hey how are these rookies doing no one better to do that with than Jonathan Caboni how are you sir I'm doing great Zach how are you I'm good I'm excited to talk about these rookies and I want to start with the Houston Rockets who have pivoted between being completely unwatchable must lead the league in zero pass possessions just so much dribbling so little passing which has marginalized Jabari Smith the number three pick in the draft and was up until the final buzzer considered possibly the number one pick and having watched everyone play I'm like how is that a thing how is he going to be picked over Paolo Bencaro we can talk about that but four and three in their last seven games three really good wins against the Suns the Hawks and last night a double overtime against the Sixers with James Harden back and I'll tell you Jonathan that Hawks win was my favorite random win for any team of the entire season the Hawks were clowning Houston clowning them they were up 90-74 I think was the score and Trey Young and DeJounte Murray were just like dancing and prancing and Trey Young hit a three to put him up by 16 and DeJounte Murray did a thing where he looked at the crowd and posed while the shot was in midair and they were dancing and Jabari Smith it was Jabari Smith got in somebody's face with the Hawks and was like you can't do that to us on our home floor and the Rockets came back to win that game and they also have one of my favorite rookies in the entirely not Jabari Smith he's second in rookie player efficiency rating he looks at the top three in all advanced stats among rookies Jonathan I'm afraid I have a little rookie crush on Tyre Eason so pick one of those two what have you seen so far I'll let you lead well both of the Rockets guys were very hard for me to rank because you know with this article that just came out yesterday our power rankings it's not a redraft and it's not based on their potential so it's really who has provided the most value to their NBA team so far neither of those guys play huge roles very rarely the guys that decide if the Rockets win or lose I'm sure the Rockets prefer to lose every game like a lot of the worst teams in the NBA right now and they're a hard team to watch honestly I've always struggled with Kevin Porter Jalen Green is very hit or miss in terms of what you're getting from him way too much Eric Gordon way too much Dejan Nix I don't know what you know what I don't want to talk about Dejan Nix I just don't understand it I don't know what's going on and it's just it's a lot of Dejan Nix a lot of Dejan Nix he got really fat again which was the reason why he went undrafted so yeah I struggled with him I did not have Tari in our top 11 you're off the podcast someone else is going to have to come out how does he have Tari Eason in the top 11 it's a pretty interesting class who's providing more value to their team him or Andrew Nembhard him or Walker Kessler him I don't think so honestly looking at their record I feel like Tari Eason would be a guy that would be a lot more interesting to watch on a better team because there's so much standing around watching Kevin Porter dribble it 17 times and then Jack a pull-up jumper or Jim Green doing the same he doesn't really give them the floor spacing that I think they probably need it's hit or miss but I love his energy I love the deflection I love the offensive rebound I love the way he gets out in transition so he's a really fun guy but Jabari Smith I think they're starting to figure out now how to utilize him a little bit better the first 10, 12, 15 games of the season were a complete disaster I think he was shooting in the mid-30s for his two-point percentage which is maybe the worst in the NBA he's been a lot better I love when he was like I'm the youngest guy on the floor I don't care you don't get to talk to us like that on our home court Atlanta Hawks and they walked the walk they came back and won the game let's talk about Jabari Smith he's going to be number one up until the buzzer was purported to be number one up until the buzzer you can see it you can see the tools he's shooting 38% from three now I think or 36% from three gigantic wingspan can switch across a lot of positions good rebounder I think he's a good contested rebounder he likes to get in the fray can grab and go in transition you've seen flashes of creating off the dribble when he gets rare chances to dribble but like you said he's mostly standing around in the corner he doesn't really even get to screen very much because the Rockets are playing all three of their centers are getting in rotation with Shen Goon Fernando and Garuba so he doesn't really even get to be like the pick and roll pick and pop pick and flare kind of guy so it's been hard to kind of figure out like what is he going to be really other than what he is but you can see tools greater than he's been able to show and it's unfair to him because it's 20 games in on a team that's just dominated by these two guards who love to dribble all the time but man it's like Bancaro we don't even need to talk about Bancaro that guy's a monster I don't care that he's shooting 26% from three he's a monster he can do everything on offense he's actually a better defensive player already than I thought he was going to be given his reputation I don't really know like how Jabari Smith how is he considered the best prospect in the draft what am I not seeing because of the context in Houston he was shooting so well most of his freshman season at Auburn and they did a great job of not exposing his weaknesses instead of letting him play one on one from beyond the arc which is what Houston were doing a lot early on in the season they put him in the post they put him at the elbow Jabari Smith is not an athlete and he's not a ball handler and so he's not a guy that you really want him dribbling more than once at best you want him playing off these quick rip-throughs his turnaround jumper was falling with regularity he was coming off screens he was bringing incredible energy when he would dribble it would be like to take a defensive rebound dribble it up and hit a transition pull-up three which you rarely see a 6'9 guy do and I think the hope was his frame will keep filling out and with more space in the NBA the lack of athleticism won't be too much of an issue but I think people they kind of ignored some of the red flags that were there that we discussed during the year people didn't really want if you can't impose your will at the college level and shoot a respectable percentage inside the arc I think he shot like 45% for two really low and so those were some of the concerns and so a lot of these rookie classic guys we're going to talk about the context is so important how are they being utilized who is surrounding them how competent do they know how to use these guys and I don't think that the Houston Rockets knew what they were getting in Jabari Smith or they were just like whatever we don't care we're just going to let him work on his weaknesses work on his game and it made him look really bad early on and I think that we're starting to figure out how to utilize him a little bit better but there's honestly even in these last 10 games there's still red flags there you know like he's going to have to build up his frame a lot I think to play through contact to be a better finisher he's never going to be an athlete he plays this kind of sped up brand of basketball in terms of passing and decision making that wasn't as much of an issue at Auburn where they played like an NBA style and they had better spacing and then he was the number one option and so that's I think he's had to adjust and there's been some ugly moments and I don't think he's totally out of the water just because he's beginning to make shots the way he has there's still going to be some ups and downs here I suspect as the year moves on of course there will be but I actually when I've watched him it's just such a weird it's a weird place to develop I've been like fine like I'm not I'm not super psyched that he fell to number three and that's what we ended up getting up on the Rockets but I'm fine Eason oh by the way another plus point for Jabari Smith Jr he hit a bank shot corner three last night against the Sixers and this is my litmus test for players what am I litmus test are you my kind of player or are you not my kind of player if you bank in a three particularly from the corner which is like if you tried it a hundred times you might not be able to do it you have two choices act all serious just jog back on defense like not acknowledging that the basketball gods just gave you a gift like almost pretend like oh what some weirdo no no I meant to do that or shrug and laugh at your good fortune those are my guys and Jabari Smith was like shrugging and laughing and then like yeah I know I didn't mean to do it so that's good Eason but first of all the Rockets starting lineup and I don't really think this means all that much considering how young they all are it's like it's the worst lineup in the NBA statistically it's the worst lineup in the NBA the threesome of Smith, Porter, and Green is minus 160 that's raw points that's the worst among any three-man group in the NBA and it's not close throw Shangun in as a fourth player it's minus I think 110 or 115 also the worst among four-man groups their bench which Ryan Hollins is nicknamed the Goon Squad is a pretty big net positive for the season and as an example when Tari Eason and Kenny Martin Jr.
who's been sensational this year are on the floor the Rockets are plus five per 100 possessions and I'll tell you why I like Eason he can do a little bit of everything he's super switchable on defense which is like that was the raw material that they drafted was like let's get the Swiss Army Knights on defense he's an incredible rebounder he averages almost three steals per 36 minutes and like New Orleans has Grand Theft Alvarado we gotta start coming up with something for Eason because he's getting these backcourt steals every game now they almost always end in bloopers with Houston flubbing the opportunity to score and Garuba had just people need to YouTube the Usman Garuba blooper last night off at Akari Eason Steel I cannot even possibly do it justice describing it in words he's also a lot of his offensive rebounds as a caveat are on his own misses at the rim shooting 36% from three I love this guy and when I asked around the scout community like what was the book on this guy why was he not drafted higher can you guess what I heard over and over again let's feel for the game can't remember plays can't remember plays we heard it over and over again that he couldn't remember plays and so maybe same thing you know and so maybe being drafted in Houston where like they don't run plays is perfect for him just like run around and do random stuff again it's early we don't know what he is on a competitive team but I love what I've seen from him so far yeah we have to get rid of Kevin Porter we have to get rid of Dasha Nix I'm not totally out on Porter I'm not totally I don't like watching him play I don't like watching him play but you need guys I just want them to use Shang-Goon a little bit more as a trigger man just to get them out of this monotony of no passing on any possessions just no pass possessions but you need guys who can break down people off the dribble you need guys who can score from three levels and he can kind of do that and you need guys with balls and he's got balls so I'm not all the way out it's just it's not an enjoyable experience though no definitely not yeah I can't believe we talked about them for this long I think they've been fun all right you're so you're not you don't hear my Easton enthusiasm no I like I like our Easton yeah I just I did I watched a lot of NBA games the past week you know like I was stuck in this cave for a month watching a billion college basketball games and I had to come out of my cave and you know focus on the NBA which I don't usually do in the month of November you know like I'm so locked in on the draft and it was actually a very enjoyable experience watching all these rookies you know really catching up and it helped me so much honestly for this upcoming draft because like they kind of put guys in a different light than I thought they would be you know like and it's causing me to rethink the way I have some of these guys ranked and actually I went to a couple of NBA games too and so it was awesome I did not enjoy my Houston Rockets watching experience well don't go all the way out on Tar Easton I like him he's causing Tar Easton was the most enjoyable part of the experience but like Kevin Porter Eric Gordon Dasha Nix you know like I talk too much you know you have to he's not a rookie but I mentioned Kenny Martin Jr people who are listening to this you have to find a moment in the second half last night when he I think he got a loose ball on the left baseline and saw and we know Kenny Martin is a hellacious dunker one of the best dunkers in the league and he saw a long runway to the rim that was clear and one guy underneath the basket defending it and the one guy was Joel Embiid and literally they slowed it down on the Houston broadcast you could see Kenny Martin's eyes widen and a little smirk come across his face because he thought oh I'm gonna get him I'm gonna get the big and he went for it and drew a foul like it was almost a clean block but like he had this glee of like oh Paul Bunyan's under the basket I'm gonna dunk it on Paul Bunyan's face it was great can I pick the next rookie to talk about because there's one guy I really want to talk about this is your show you can do whatever you want Zach I want to talk about Jalen Williams 1 J-Dub on the Oklahoma City Thunder who's been starting for them for quite a while now and I've enjoyed watching his game because he's kind of a high IQ feel player he's only shooting 30% from three but he's a good catch and go player he's a good passer on the move you can tell he thinks the game really well he's one of those guys who reads the game kind of from a step ahead can pass it with both hands has a little funky runner right-handed runner leaning and going left that seems to go in every time defensively I think he has great feel and balance on defense he can close out hard without flying by people he keeps guys in front of him he forces guys to make tough shots over him and they're throwing him in the deep end on defense guard DeJounte Murray last night Boganovich you guard good players every game and the Thunder the numbers don't show it but when they have Gildress Alexander, Dort, Giddy and Jalen Williams out there with one big man you can see the blurry outlines of a regular modern basketball team and he gets to run some pick and roll too when they sit Shea and Giddy at the same time which is like I hate when they do that it's a great way to try to lose but I hate when they do that I like he's a very un-Thunder-y player the Thunder have drafted so much for length and athleticism and we'll work out the basketball stuff and the shooting later this feels like the opposite kind of pick we'll draft for feel and IQ and obviously position and see how his athleticism what he has translates to the NBA what have you seen from him and what was the book on him coming out of Santa Clara he was I think the 12th pick yeah he was the 12th pick he was the big riser of the pre-draft process last year and I think a lot of the things that you just touched on are the things that people saw in workouts which is what they saw at the NBA combine where he decided to play both games which most guys don't want to do and I kind of disagree that he's not a Thunder player because like the 7-2 wingspan he's six four and a half barefoot seven two wingspan he can legitimately guard seven two and a while can legitimately guard power forwards but like you said they play him a lot at point guard especially in their second units he's got a great feel he's got great pace um he's playing off all these hesitation moves he does it with both with both hands he fought you know second side um you know bounce passes skips um off a live dribble um just really knows how to play basketball you know and he's you know he's been underrated skill by the way really knowing how to play basketball i think i would if i were gm i would look for those guys of a basketball team if you don't play basketball i want you on my team yeah i mean that's underdrafted josh you know it's not all about athletes you know i do think that presley does value those guys who who know how to play you know and shape you know he's honestly not athleticism is not his number one trait you know like he's got this herky-jerky game he gets anywhere he wants he can pass he can be some credible shot maker uh so yeah i think he i think he really really fits him and i like never enjoyable to watch because you understand kind of what they're trying to build you know like there's there's a style of play there that really fits the nba game that's why jones he's always gonna have value as a six six guy who can drill fast and shoot i think he's gonna be a much better shooter than the 30 percent he's shooting now you know yeah that's that's rookie stuff he's not gonna be a 30 percent free point shooter he's making 40 percent of his threes last year he probably made 81 percent of his free throws he's making 80 percent of his free throws now i think he's just he's being forced to do stuff that are not in his comfort level right now and that's good you know because like it's gonna get easier for him later on when you know when he has a smaller role i think and that's what you know that he's like six right now in minutes played um which is you know he's he's playing more minutes than any guy outside the top six and so you know the thunder like they're letting him develop you know they're bringing along and um and i think he's gonna really pay dividends for them he's he's awesome i think he's gonna be really good on both ends before i'm a big fan my only concern is like he doesn't seem like a blow away athlete who can like blow by people off the dribble faster guards have given him issues but again he's a rookie but i think he's just a good basketball player uh we're doing by the way the timing of this podcast is unbelievable because some of rookies had their best ever games just last night recording this on tuesday morning as long as we're on the thunder usman jang had i think a career high 13 14 points last night made three threes um you see exactly what he could like what the idea of him is like big ultra switchable three and deep player hasn't played much so it's hard to get a read on him looks a little bit uncomfortable like handling the ball and making decisions but that's he's i think the second youngest player in the nba so that's that's to be expected uh size wise and and is everything you want um have you been happy with him so far i mean they're played after he's been in the g league and recently he's come up and played a lot now on the real team yeah i mean they started he started the year off playing a good amount and then they sent him down to the g league he played pretty well there you know and then you know now he's back um with the big team and doing some interesting things i mean the shot has been very streaky but you know like he's 6 10 um he's you know he can repass he's guard multiple positions and he's got a good feel for the game like i said he's 19 years old and he's really thin and he's not an athlete so it's going to be hard for him in the early going but i mean like the nba scours the globe for these 6 10 guys who can handle pass and shoot and have feel on both ends and so he has a very very high ceiling he's someone i'd be very excited about if i were a downer fan but it's going to take time the good thing for them is that they have a lot of time you know so there's no they have no issue you know throwing him on the floor in an nba game yesterday and just you know if it works great and they'll ride him and if not then you know they'll take him out he had 15 points five rebounds yesterday in 18 and a half minutes he's a willing shooter he's 10 of 34 on three so it hasn't been great but i don't really care he's a willing shooter he's confident that matters to me as much at this stage of his career as anything else you said feel on defense and i don't disagree like defense is hard for rookies but you see him rotating around the floor and making decisions in a way that suggests as he learns the speed and the sort of stylistic tendencies of the nba that he's going to be a reliable defensive player and he certainly has all the tools and the length the ability to both guard quick guards and offer him protection like i like the outlines of him there's a rookie who had 31 points last night that i know you want to talk about so please start gushing right now andrew nebhardt i mean wow like this is why the context is so important because when i was doing my rankings like you know last week i started i saw he had like 40 pick and roll possessions the entire season like he barely dribbled the ball for them but the last two games um no halliburton no tj mcconnell and so they were forced to put the ball in his hands you know against the golden state warriors in san francisco and holy cow what a performance this guy had 31 points 13 assists eight rebounds blowing by steph um you know which is not with explosiveness just with you know his handle and his feel and his pace and he's got a sneaky good size he's almost six foot five and so he sees over the top he lets the game come to him um and you know the confidence that he's playing with is amazing but you know we've seen him play a very different role with halliburton too um a lot of screening action where he's the screener and then he pops out or he rolls and just really confuses the defense almost like a bruce brown type action that carl i was running and then defensively way ahead of you know almost any rookie in the class off the ball just like uh you know just play so hard uh he's got such great instincts always in the right spots he fights over screens he gave steph some real issues yesterday i mean steph were totally checked out yesterday the warriors that's a different conversation um you know not their most intense performance yesterday but you gotta credit the pacers you know they started so well lost a couple of games they're on this tough road trip now no haliburton and they you know they put up 130 points or whatever on the going state warriors that was very impressive and injury no turner either in that game no miles turner that's right yeah so the 31 taking the draft you know like carries you to a win that's got to be exciting you know like if you're kevin pritchard chad buchanan i mean like because ben mathurin by the way is a rookie of the year candidate he's number two and you know most of the the vega sides and so like they had great drafts and they have a very interesting young team moving forward the only issue is i mean i think going into the year they probably were hoping to have a better shot at drafting when byama and that's you know they might make the playoffs you know like the way things are looking you know the playing game i mean we'll see it's a long season but um that's uh you know some tough decisions coming up you know what to do with miles turner and but they're in a great situation right now well i mentioned i recorded part one of this podcast yesterday morning so before they beat the warriors on the road and i mentioned to that point the pacers have played the easiest schedule in the nba by a point of winning percentage and so some pain was going to come well they forced all the pain by one game with a really nice win at golden state without their two best players um and look we've all talked about the lakers trade endlessly a couple of things on that um i mentioned extending miles turner a month ago i mentioned it again yesterday and bobby marsh reminded me of something i said before but it's worth noting again they have multiple ways to extend them including giving them a raise this year with their cap room and then extending them out and i think i don't think that has been i don't think that idea has been disqualified by either side let's put it that way i think there could be some traction there the other thing on these lakers deals and we talked about it with the rosen and vucevic just as a brief sidetrack like the other team has to be willing to do to do those deals and i've talked about before like why that i don't think that theoretical trade with both picks coming back to the bulls is like crazy for the bulls but the bulls have other options too that's what's that's what's seldom discussed in some of these lakers trade talks is like if the bulls actually made the rosen available and i don't i don't get the vibe to be clear right now that they're in that mindset even though they're 9 and 14 and careening i don't think they're they're not going to get into the women yama race without like insane lottery luck it's just gonna get too far away from them they're too good they're better than i thought matherin we don't even have to talk about that guy is that guy is so as advertised as this combination of power and finesse that you rarely see in a wing or guard at that age like he has a really soft like buttery jump shot and then he goes to the rim like he wants to kill people and i just love all you know how hard it is you know how hard it is for a veteran guard to average eight free throws per 36 minutes like a veteran guard deandre ayton might not get eight free throws in a week until the last week he's a center in the last week he's got no line more but like that's like almost jimmy butler level free throw aggregation by benedict matherin nemhard is you mentioned the screening i wrote about that last month and that was what first got me onto him the shooting the defense you see but his ability to screen and make plays in open space was really appealing there's always one rookie her jones whoever it is second round random second round guy who like sneaks on to first team all rookie or is like the first guy on second team all rookie and bumps off like there's always a jalen green who has like huge stats who gets bumped to second team by this particular type of rookie this nemhard is gonna be that guy this year i don't know where he's gonna finish god knows i haven't thought about all rookie yet he's just he looks like a basketball player man he's pretty good and he's you said six five and sneaky i don't know what some guys there's just this weird species of nba player who looks like they're six one and then you look up their height and they're six five i don't know why i don't know if it's playing style when you said six five i was like whoa he's six five i guess he's six five yeah he's just thin and he doesn't have much length and that's where one-on-one defensively he struggled at times they target him you know like that sacramento game malik monk you know guys like that give him problems but he's so good off the ball and he plays so hard that it's fine you know like the question is for me is is he gonna be shooting 43 for three right now that is not who he was at all in college he's a career 34 three-point shooter and a lot of that is because he's taking easier shots he doesn't have to handle the ball especially when you're playing with halberton you're going to step into rhythm threes uh but yesterday holy cow the shot making off the bounce like that was like wow that's eye-opening we didn't see that at gonzaga as much but um yeah i mean like and people are like oh he's 30 years old he's 22 he's gonna keep getting stronger he's gonna keep getting better he's gonna if he keeps up his confidence in his shot and also you know just playing you know at his own pace and getting in the paint because he doesn't do that a lot he doesn't get the free throw line he's not the most physical finisher but he shows lashes of being able to do that a little bit more and you know steel for the game is so good that i mean he's gonna be i mean he's done a four-year contract for basically the minimum you know like he's one of the best contracts in the nba right now and look they have they have a foundational backcourt in halberton mathron like that's a great that's a great place to start how they build out the rest of the roster over the next three years is gonna be really interesting particularly if miles turner eventually ever gets moved because that leaves a gigantic void and isaiah jackson has been pretty hit or miss goga never plays the other guys are you know terry taylor o'shea percent i mean they're kind of fringe you guys i have a soft spot for percent but um but you know the the roster is kind of shallow when you look medium long term but those two guards are special and them hard looks like he's gonna be a good supporting piece for a lot of picks too this is a very good draft coming up i think they have three first renders you know their own they have their own they have boston's via the brogdon deal and they have cleveland's if if assuming cleveland makes the playoffs because it's lottery protected and then it converts immediately and that's the issue i've mentioned about the patients before they have picks they are rebuilding you mentioned the lemonyama sort of pipe dream i think the reason why we are fixated on this and how they are right now at least above the lemonyama uh brigade is yeah they got these couple extra picks oklahoma city has a million picks houston has a million picks some teams that are good like new orleans has a million picks utah has a million picks all those teams that are rebuilding maybe a step behind the pacers maybe even with the pacers depending on how you conceive of some of their players they have a lot more bites at the apple and they're other than utah at least right now much worse in the present day and so you just sort of that's what that's what the uncertainty of how how does indiana find the next guy instead of guys if they don't tank this season but look the pacers have never really been a tank team and they have always found ways to remain competitive i think they're actually one of the you know they're never sexy to talk about other than when they're going head-to-head with miami in the conference finals all those years in the second round one year i think they're one of like everyone trumps out the spurs the spurs won a million titles they deserve all the love the pacers staying this competitive for like since the 80s basically is one of the great kind of just good competent stories in the nba and the fact that they've never won the whole thing and only made the finals ones shouldn't really like we should there should be a little pacers appreciation they've been good for a long time mostly good for a long time and they actually have a license to tank is my understanding if they want to do it i think ownership is on board with this and so we might see them transition promise they're probably too good you know haliburton's too good miles turner mathurin you know nebhardt ricotta is a really good coach so it i don't know how they they flip the switch to being bad because the next two drafts after this i don't know what to say but like not looking great right now you know like so like if you want to do your tank job you better do it this year because not only is victor there but like scu henderson the thompson twins this is a very very good class you know there's depth to it too so you know some tough decisions coming up for them and i think if they want to tank it's there for them i don't think ownership's gonna stand in their way but like they're probably really excited i mean it's fun to win i don't even know honestly i wish i knew the answer to that question would ownership really green light it because it seems to change by the day by the week by the win by the loss yeah you know i've said all along if the lakers came with those two picks unprotected at the very least the pacers would get herb simon and herb jr and all the brain trust in a room and say okay this is this is the one we've got to discuss this one those things are too far off it doesn't matter they still have the meeting and i bet you the front office would try to twist the arms of the ownership and say this is the one we got to do i think they have the equity to pull off almost any trade that they want in terms of ownership is my understanding question is what do they want you know to get a 2029 first rounder i mean like we could all be dead by then you know like wow that's usually i say miami could be underwater by then or like the world could be underwater we could all be dead by then a long time seven years from now like i don't know how much that interest you want to see a first round pick in 2029 i mean like jeez i think i think i think kevin pritchard should use that line if palinka ever makes the offer like look rob we can't be dead by then wait i don't want that pick i want like i'm gonna talk to teams that can give me picks for next season we can all be dead by then oh my god i think i'm like a curmudgeon and a pessimist like i'm i'm wow that's dark you have a young family out there zach you have a young family give him some hope croatia's in the final day of the world cup don't bring me down enjoy that yeah enjoy it while you can oh my god all right well let's talk about another teenager who has a bright future in this world hopefully ahead of him the last time we look there's a lot of we can talk about we're not going to get to walker kessler who is as advertised monster offensive rebounder monster shop locker holding opponents to 53 percent shooting at the rim dyson daniels i wrote about in 10 things last week love dyson daniels he's a fun all-around player i i talked about aj griffin in 10 things last week with the hawks love what i've seen from aj griffin old school stout pull-up two game has earned a big rotation role there written about all those guys so we're gonna cut it short let's go to detroit and two rookies i haven't talked much about jaden ivy and jalen durren durren is the youngest player in the nba um it's been cave's been out sadique bay was out for a while bagley was out for a while now bagley's back when bagley came back stewart was out so it's been they haven't really been able to play the rotation that they want to play i don't even know if they know the rotation they want to play in terms of are they really going all in with like these double center lineups and isaiah stewart at the four ivy hasn't had his backcourt mate for the last 15 games or whatever it is um so it's been hard to get a feel for exactly what these guys are but i think there's reasons for great optimism with both of them and for sure i think detroit envisions ivy cunningham durren as three-fifths of its starting five when in the next two three four years as the team gets into what it's going to be um ivy obviously was the subject of much infatuation and trade trade up attempts to trade up what have you seen from him so far particularly with kate out which is which is tough sledding for him i think jayden ivy it might be the most exciting rookie in the nba i would be thrilled right now if i'm a pistons fan with ivy and durin jayden ivy has been much better than keaton murray even though he's two years younger uh you know like for the modern game just having a guy like that who's six foot four watching his film i was like this guy is like he's a young russell westbrook you know like the athleticism in the open floor you know and also in a half or just changing speeds nobody can guard him you know i was watching the selfish have good backcourt defenders they couldn't guard him either you know like so he's just 20 he's got so much more room to grow obviously his shot needs to improve his decision making his defense you know all the things that we knew coming into the nba season but jayden ivy uh looks awesome and if he weren't in detroit you know which is probably the worst team in the nba and just not a very attractive team to watch in general people would be so much more excited about him i feel like watching him i was like holy cow like jayden ivy is going to be awesome and the same thing can be said about jayden duran he's been you know all over the place you know night to night you don't know what you're gonna get from him when he's already top 10 in the nba dunks he's top 10 in offensive rebound percentage and some of the things that he does defensively hedging out to half court switching on guys you know rotating to protect the rim you know like there's some bad moments there too i mean he is the youngest player in the nba i mean he could almost be in high school right now he just turned 19 years old yeah it's too bad for him we're all gonna be dead in 2029 he's got he's got seven years you know so he may as well enjoy it while he can i didn't hear anything you said the last two minutes i just zoned out thinking about how we're gonna be dead in 2029 you could have said anything you could have said jayden ivy's my mvp of the whole season i take him over lebron james i don't know i zoned out detroit is sneakily a very interesting young team you know once they get caved back um you know i said stewart i mean offensively like that guy's made a big leap too you know i was watching some of the minutes with ivan i'm like isaiah stewart is shooting threes like that now i mean that was something like he never did in college okay defensively he's got you know a lot of room to grow but like if i say stewart run the lakers right now people the season after the last 30 40 games last season we're built to switch almost everything we think isaiah stewart's got good feet at the five we can switch with him and then you know he's undersized for a center and jalen duran just physically is a monster and you mentioned hedging and protecting the rim i think that's the vision with him is we can we can you look at him and you think rim protector and he's gonna be a protector i think the pistons think we can play any scheme defensively with duran we can switch with him and he has so much force and length on the perimeter that he might end up being better than stewart at that kind of defense i do think it's interesting that they seem so into playing stewart at the four basically next to bagley and next to duran i didn't really see that coming he is shooting 36 on threes isaiah stewart on four attempts a game so it's not like trivial like you said and some of them are above the break now it's not just corner threes it's not just like the no one's near me i'm gonna wind up check the wind and shoot threes they're real threes and it is i think they're trying they're trying to see if you know we've been writing for 10 years now small ball is really just about skill not size and the ultimate apex of the nba is size plus skill plus playmaking across the board is like is guys who can be seven feet tall six ten six eight and play like guards and i think detroit is trying to see if like can we can we combine enough size and skill in these two big groups i'm kind of skeptical but i'm in for the experience of watching it like i don't i don't know that isaiah stewart's still like their long-term starting four i'd rather someone like saviq bay win that job and saviq bay's been kind of in this year but i'm kind of into watching it but i think duran's gonna be really good and i think ivy i mean the speed to change the pace he's got floater he's got confidence there's nothing not to like about either of these guys 20 games into the season really yeah you can see the outlines of what detroit is trying to build and that's all that i mean when i'm watching these bad teams that's all i want to see is like what are these guys trying to get to in a year or two and you can see it honestly like it'll be way more visible once kate gets back and then if they get like um you know like a henderson or someone like that they're like yeah then they're gonna be like off the races big time jonathan gabboni your rookie power rankings that don't have tari eason so i don't like them are out on espn.com they came out yesterday uh they are a fantastic reader draft coverage is absolutely essential to everyone in the nba at least this year there's not gonna be any drama about who's gonna go number one i can be one of your sources for who's gonna be the number one pick in the draft everybody go read jonathan gabboni stuff listen to everything he does thank you sir thanks have a great day you