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This episode is 1 hour and 32 minutes long.

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This episode was published on July 17, 2023.

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McMenamin and Schwartz - The Lowe Post

And now the low post podcast Monday morning on back from Vegas. Vegas is still in my bloodstream Somewhere and it's time to take stock of the offseason for a few different teams and fittingly wearing a Philadelphia Phillies hat our Los Angeles Lakers insider Dave McMedaman How are you? I'm doing well, Zach. I can't believe we were completely ships plus passing the night in Vegas I think we had one kind of drive by as I was checking in the time of some back through the security and you were you know Headed the way out.

I probably to meet your room or to a cab to some parts unknown to meet one of your many Insider sources around the league, but I'm glad we can catch up now. Yeah, there were some late nights in Vegas So misbehavior, but we are we are back. We are on the home front and we have to start We're supposed to talk about the Lakers, but we have to start with Joellen Bead one of the rare instances in which a player makes a comment several days ago at the uninterrupted Sports Film Festival being interviewed by Maverick Carter And Joellen Bead said in response to a kind of a vague question about like what do we need to look for from Joellen B Going forward said I just want to win a championship whatever it takes I don't know where that's gonna be the weather. It's in Philly or anywhere else I just want to have a chance to accomplish that whoa, that's a record scratch I don't know where that's gonna be whether it's in Philly or anywhere else and if you're paying attention You've been paying attention rather that none that should not surprise you I've said for More than a year that this is a simmering situation in Philly and then the harden stalemate which remains a stalemate on July 17th Has only sort of I as soon as the harden news dropped from Wojd that he was opting in and had quote according to Wojd Likely played his last game with the Sixers.

I said forget all these other names. There's only one name that matters It's Joellen Bead. What's gonna happen Joellen Bead? All the teams with draft picks nicks are lurking and Joellen Tried to on Twitter kind of play this off his arm.

I'm a troll. I'm just trolling. I don't buy it I he's too smart for that he knows exactly what he's doing by saying that he knows the door that he's opening and Look Philly has has signed Pat Beverly and mobamba and some centers and but they've lost George Nang They've lost shake built in there in this harden limbo I don't want to read too much into a comment But the comment confirms what everyone on paying attention to the NBA landscape already knows already knew what what are your thoughts as if it's a Philly a Philly guy Dave. I mean line up the SL express Yes, sent him up to New York.

That's been what has been the murmurs. You said New York We've all heard New York. We know the connection between Leon Rose and Joellen B We also know quite frankly that Delmory came into a situation that was largely set up before him and he will Continue to craft that team in the fashion that he wants it to look like And Joellen Bead now that he has the stamp on his resume of being the reigning MVP He should be applying pressure to make the urgent window exists in this moment for Philadelphia and if it doesn't Now this is what we see with stars in this game And that's a beauty the NBA if you are one of the singular name stars in the league and you can sway the championship odds of a franchise If they can acquire you there's probably you know 10 names in the league like that if not less if not fewer I got in trouble on Twitter about six or seven years ago and I did not include Stephen Curry into that list of names I for one I for one have not forgiven you Dave. I still have it.

I had no memory of that until you just said it now Every day every day you walk around and feel sure it's the worst thing the worst thing I've ever had and it's the biggest blowback I ever got but one thing though. It allowed me to open up like the the vortex into manipulation of the masses because had I purposely because I could have done the same exercise over and over again made an Operatory list speaking about something in the NBA You know touting the greatness of a group of players and purposely leaving a player off the engagement goes through the roof now at that time I I think I was down playing in my mind the masterful career. That's that curry was in the midst of I apologize Steph that's what we know about it in person. Yeah, you can't apologize enough Dave every day You should begin the day with an apology every single day get on Twitter and say hey, I'm sorry every day I'll tell you those as a as a true, you know, tie a bow in at me a culpa the NBA's NBA store had an auction and They had the net available from his game for against the Celtics basically to me the pantheon of pantheon games for stuff You know in the finals they could possibly lose that game, you know, who knows what happens in the finals He shuts up the crowd.

He's on dream on he goes nuts 40 plus points and it was like a very reasonable bid price Like I think I did it was like oh for less than $200 If I can win this thing if no one's paying attention to it next time I see him like here you go I was buried for good the last day of video went up to like five thousand dollars somebody else But I've been quite a good point for that, but okay, all right. I digress let's talk about Joellen B. He's one of those guys that he's on that that list and You should recognize that value of where he is in his career right now And he should use that to apply pressure to the Sixers to make them a winner in the moment And if they can't I think he's well within his rights to make a statement like that And I say that as you know growing up proud fell if it's for span and certainly I care my brother lives and died by the six year Successor failures, but I also know how this business goes and if Billy can't get it done for Joellen They deserve a chance where they can't get it done and build a contender round him and this hard thing is very important Not just you know to keep that team intact and keep them, you know, very competitive I thought the Sixers were you know top five or sixteen a league last year But harden has also allowed Joellen be it to be the leading scorer and the MVP in the two years you play with them You know, whoever they replace harden with if they do orchestrate a trade Better sure to make sure that I can play a style effectively to keep Joellen be happy look to be clear He said, you know, Joellen is well within his rights to do this This is about as vanilla of a very polite hint of pressure that a superstar could apply Like this is in the scheme of things basically nothing from a guy who by all accounts from what I've heard publicly and privately Wants to win in Philly values the fact that he's got this bond with the team and the city part of the reason He has that bond with the city in particular is from the process until today There's one thing that's stood the test of time one and it's Joellen Bead and everything around that is complete chaos To the point of absurd comedy I mean I don't need to delist all of the things that have happened almost happen didn't happen should have happened around Joellen Bead leading to this Place of another guard in chaos this time harden and again It's 515 Eastern on Monday July 17th as far as I know the harden situation remains a total stalemate There's only really one team that he wants to go to that team is the Clippers their level of engagement here to me is unclear slash not super enthusiastic I don't know what to make of the possibility that harden would never go back to Philly I continue to hear from people who would know that you know the bridges burned But that's what people who would know would say on July 17th with two months or whatever before training camp I don't know how this is gonna resolve itself I know that Darrell Murray has no history of trading star players and James Harden is still a star for spare parts that if Darrell Murray somehow deviated from that because he felt he had no other alternative Joellen Bead by all common sense would be like wait what just happened we had Ben Simmons and then we had James Harden and now we have this and I'm not even interested in going back and visiting revisiting all the other Ben Simmons possibilities, you know Bill Simmons the other B Simmons mentions Tyree's Halliburton a lot there were Dejanthé Murray trades like all that stuff is water under the bridge to be They made a good trade in acquiring James Harden. It worked They had either the best or the second best team of the entire Joellen Bead era this past season The other one being 2019 with Jimmy Butler who they inexplicably in retrospect at least let go or traded away or gave into his demands Or wouldn't pay him the full five-year mat whatever it is ends up in Miami And again, they got to the second round it again They lost now take this Dave when they won game five in Boston to go up three two and they spanked the Celtics I thought finally they're gonna get over the hump and they ran smack into the hump and fell on their faces again in game seven And you know Joellen has three years in a player option for fifty nine million dollars in 2027 left on his contract I have no idea what's gonna happen, but it's been an obvious thing brewing You mentioned the nicks everyone's mentioned the nicks the funniest possible subplot or resolution and one that actually makes a ton of sense Is a Brooklyn Nets revenge trade for Joellen Bead after whatever happened with Harden ends up going from Brooklyn to Philly?

They've got all the assets They have a team that's actually kind of all the draft assets anyway a team That's actually kind of like positioned to win with a centerpiece player. That would be the funniest thing but you know I don't this this look man. It's July 17th. I've no idea what's gonna happen, but this is he's the MVP of the league he's the MVP and For the MVP to say anything like that is at least a little bit of an alarm bell Absolutely and again They didn't catch you by surprise or me off guard because the idea of Joellen Bead finishing his career in Philadelphia It's not something that it seems like a lock by any search of imagination before or after this time And he made the Maverick Carter on stage in Los Angeles.

I think what this means is that you know, Mobamba and Patrick Beverly as additions are enough Tyrese Maxi who's tremendous and assuming that he continues to improve Is not enough. It's a bias Harris probably the biggest victim of a contract Sully and his reputation because he's still a really really solid player But he's viewed as not the guy worthy of that contract versus just looking at what he does but still not enough and this is a team right now, you know, I think ever since Jimmy Butler was not retained hasn't gotten to that level as a group even as Joellen Bead has approved and Again, I'm sure all these guys who are in that elite conversation of the one name guys the one name guys that matter they watch the moves of the other one name guys that matter and they went with other guys have and There are more I've had several peers over the years I think I can name to I think might have been more than that say he's the best of us He's the best B MLE key he can create cap space scenarios that we had can't even dream up So if there's a guy who can figure this out, I think there are more he's someone Philadelphia fans should have some faith in But the clock should be ticking. Yeah, you bring up Maxi and Beverly and Harris and whatever Like the Sixers will be a good team next year if Joellen Bead is on the team with some combination of those players Maybe hard and maybe what they get for like they're good They're gonna be good It is interesting how the triangle three team trade involving lillard and harden and the clippers and the Sixers and the blazers You don't hear much noise about that anymore within league circles. Maybe there's just never really been anything to it The last time we saw Joellen Bead was game seven against the Celtics in Boston five of 18 four turnovers minus 28 getting roasted on the perimeter by Jason Tatum and He just hasn't been the same guy in the playoffs ever throughout his career a lot of that is Health and if you health and whatever else I mean if you go just through the years in the playoffs 2018 They lose in the second round to the Celtics.

That's his first playoff first That's fine. He like was fine kind of meh in that series But like they were young and you know lost four to one was an okay series first first alarm bells of Ben Simmons in the playoffs and being like Whoa, what this what's happening? 2019 is the butler year, you know, and he had a respiratory illness. He had stomach issues.

He was dealing with knee soreness He's always dealing with new soreness. He missed the game in the first round and in the Raptor series 16 points 12 points 33 points 11 points 13 points 17 points 21 points in game seven on six of 18 shooting But you know famously and I had to relook this up They were plus 90 within beat on the floor in that series and minus 109 in 99 minutes within beat on the bench Which is like pretty impossible to do and again He's dealing with just a litany of stuff 2020 bubble totally overmatched Simmons out. No shot swept by Boston 2021 is the Ben Simmons past the Matisse stable They lose to the Hawks in game 7 and beat is playing through a cardily Just you in a knee in that playoffs and miss the game in the first round against Washington commit 16 turnovers combined in the last two games His assist to turn over ratio for his career in the playoffs is 148 assists to 193 turnovers. That's bad.

Just bad His play is regular season numbers 27 11 three assists three turnovers on 50% shooting 54% on twos playoffs 24 So minus three points 11 rebounds 2.8 assists 3.6 turnovers 46% shooting 28% on threes His free throws go down a little bit to just has him in the same guy 2022 he has the buzzer beater against the Raptors to essentially clinch that series an all-time great shot And then misses the first two games of the Miami series with a concussion member Pascal Siacom knocked him in the head toward the end Of the Raptor series they go 2 and 2 with him beat in that series. Oh and 2 without him game 6 They lose he's 7 of 24 in game 6 and this year also dealing with knee issues miss a game against Brooklyn a game against Boston You know, I don't it's is it luck is it size is it going all out for the MVP and not pacing himself correctly to be ready for the playoffs Is it just it's it's three different playoffs. It's been nice stuff knee soreness, but you know It's not as if he's completely Blameless for Philly just being unable to win a second round playoff series He's their best player. He has been their best player.

It hasn't been closer than the butler year really I don't think maybe hard and no it wasn't close this year other than those first two games But it's just it's a lot of everything in Philly. It's just a lot of everything and I don't know man I don't know I mean you do literally laid it out very cut dry and And I mean man is that this is turnover number telling about how effective he's or lack of effectiveness He's had in the postseason for his regular season But then is I hypothesis? Will you just be running from your problems go well and you do almost what championship you almost went run from the grind? You almost you almost a hashtag run from the grind or Solution that you just get a little bit better And it's really really really really hard to win a ring in this league And you need a lot of luck and you need a lot of work And you need a lot of camaraderie, and are you doing absolutely everything you can to maximize the areas where you can control?

Obviously luck injuries and stuff sometimes out of your control. I don't know and I do think though This is something we need to be talking about because we have spent as Folks who come to league the better part of the last month having the conversation about Dame Lillard as being you know the biggest piece that's out there that can affect how the chase of the championship looks next year But you know even with everything you just said Well indeed is going to affect winning far more in my opinion Whoever he goes if he does go somewhere then they love it well Well, I don't I mean that's a debate for another day I and to be clear like I don't think there's any immediacy to any of this like I I think the Sixers have this season At least with him be but that could change on a dime This episode is brought to you by FedEx These days the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the track at a corporate lunch The real power move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks Level up your business with FedEx the new power move Hey sports fans the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service And now you can check if you already have ESPN unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional call visit activate.aspn.com To learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in the ESPN app It's all the ESPN all in one place sign up for activate now Okay, your actual beat is a Los Angeles Lakers And I thought it'd be fun to talk about them because there are winners on the free agency winners and losers columns and podcasts all over the place now everything's mostly done and And and when we name them winners just kind of like list the names like oh gave Vincent Tory and Prince Austin Reeves comes back on a great deal They drafted, you know a couple of guys that make a tribute they get camera to shame about let's talk about the actual team Like how good is this team gonna be what do they look like on paper and where do they go from here? D'Angelo Russell brought back hachim bura brought back I think this team's gonna be really good I think what they did in the last 30 40 games of the season and in the playoffs was pretty legit and the single biggest reason why I was Austin Reeves Austin Reeves became if not quite a certified member of a certifiable big three almost And one of the stats of the season for the Lakers is Reeves LeBron Davis regular season Plus 14 and a half points per 100 possessions plus 149 total points in 390 minutes 390. They played more minutes together in the playoffs as a trio than they did in the regular season So the single biggest reason the single biggest reason for optimism that the Lakers have something going with this continuity with this group With this style of play is those three guys together are really really good And they have only started to scratch the surface of what they can do together I will just open the floor to you What interests you about this team going into the season if you are optimistic that they can compete with Denver and Phoenix and Golden State and Sacramento and Memphis And whoever else you want to put toward the top of an absolutely loaded Western Conference with LeBron approaching 39 years old Anthony Davis sometimes injured sometimes healthy sometimes injured again What is your reason for optimism?

What's interesting to you? Well, I am optimistic about this group about to start with a conversation I've had with a couple folks One person attached to the team. There's long time People in a league who find there to be some merit and legitimacy to this thought process This is the alchemy of last year's group when they went in that 24 game stretch 18 and six prior to getting swept in the Western Conference final you had this intense shared purpose of not only Okay, so you have the chance to make the play into our men. So that was one level of pressure then for Basically half of their rotation in Austin Rees and D'Angelo Russell and really how to more up It's play well enough to justify getting a big payday this summer There's another big ingredient to what the group was going through then you have Darwin ham who I don't think is motivational Ever waver knowing him for as long as I don't him But again him looking to make up for how he stumbled out of gates to begin his first coaching job in the league Start off to intent and LeBron who at all-star break in Salt Lake City said This is the most important stretch of my career coming up And all of most immediately has to go out of the lineup for 13 games with a foot injury And so when he gets back he is trying to push the pedal to the metal for the duration and see us far He can take them so all those elements were working in their favor right up until they met the best team in the league And even then you know again, it's as sweet as a sweep I'm not trying to change history here, but it was a very competitive series against the governor You take away a lot of those ingredients and it's a group you know playing even from the start out of the gates And it's a bunch of young players who have now been paid Can they capture that kind of thrust and that intensity that was such a big part of their success?

I think it's possible, but that element I don't think should be overlooked when we look back at what they were able to accomplish last year You just gave him what Tim McMahon has coined the bronze broom. I think a word for the competitive sweep I like that from Tim McMahon how do you partner? Strikes me that we probably should have led with the quote unquote news that LeBron is not retiring I think that happened over the weekend at the SVs I guess Bad bad formatting by me should have been the top of the podcast LeBron arguably the greatest player in the world not retiring After hinting that he had a lot to think about no one really thought retirement was a real possibility But I guess now we can formally say LeBron James will be returning for the last guaranteed season on his current Los Angeles Lakers country Yeah, I mean, I think the series against Denver ended on Monday I spoke to LeBron on the way out of the arena and yeah He told me that you'd be contemplating retirement but the end of that conversation that pre-conversation we had was well I'm still better than 90 or 95% of the league right now So it didn't sound like a guy was on a retire that I reported four days later Cornice was close to LeBron that he would be fulfilling his contract with the upcoming season So yeah, not a shock whatsoever I thought it was interesting though. Just to hear the mindset He sounds like someone who's pretty refreshed and is looking forward to the challenge already with about two months ago versus the last two seasons It was a lot and again Anyone can say I would may agree with you or even join the chorus that when it's a lot LeBron brings a lot on himself too Just by who he is and sometimes intentionally the guy who says he is most comfortable being uncomfortable And I think he sometimes Introduces situations and things that are on the test them and sometimes just to so he doesn't get bored throughout the course of a season But listen, I mean look I know modern sport science is different than it was for players in you know decades past in this league I know you know the amount of compensation these guys are paid that they can afford to you know invest in their bodies Though the way that LeBron has but I mean you look at the guys who have played in year 21 I think there's been five guys prior to him.

He's gonna be number six and it's Dirk and it's Kevin Willis and it's Robert Parrish and it's Vince Carter and I guess I'm forgetting a name here the average like eight points per day LeBron Assume that the foot heals the right way and the rump Lincoln said as much as he said all good things about that being something you put behind him Going into next year. He's gonna average 20 plus you're gonna average, you know Five and five if not better numbers like he always does and he will be the you know many nights the best player and many other nights The second best player after Anthony Davis on a team is going to be 10 for a title And we are so I guess numb to what he accomplishes that the numbers don't speak for themselves Sometimes I guess sometimes distance make the heart grow fonder and he doesn't allow a lot of distance The guy's stays in the light guys as much as possible But he's gonna continue to be one of the guys that matters and so long the Lakers can you know Have some injury luck on their side and get into the playoffs, you know This scene the West are better. They're gonna have a real shot to make a run just like it this past year Who's more comfortable being uncomfortable Darrell Morier LeBron James Darrell boy, yeah, how many times we heard oh Darrell Morry loves being uncomfortable. I like being comfortable I don't want to be uncomfortable.

I don't like being uncomfortable on planes. I don't like being uncomfortable I like being comfortable. I just want to be comfortable. I want everything to be fine I don't like this idea You have a compartmentalized feeling for that because the way you treat your work like you put in a long hours That's not comfortable because you have a standard of what you want to build to do.

So that's you know I think always seeing seeking comfort is that's not the exact level. I know all right fair enough By the way you mentioned the money This is just a total aside and a conversation I had with that just came up organically quite a bit in Vegas It's just that the salaries that the players are making and that they can afford to invest like LeBron does You know Zion was talking about this too We are I think people are starting to like realize I don't want to say sticker shock But as the cap goes up like we're not far from a guy's making $70 million a year not even that far It's some point not from a million dollars again. There at some point in our lives covering the league There will be a hundred million dollar per year player Damian load is already on the books for 2027 at 63.3 million and I always go back to something My dad told me when I was a little sports fan Zach like and it started to be a thing like oh my god a player makes a million Dollars player makes five million dollars. It's like he told me back then Zach.

Here's this big pool of money in sports Who do you want to get it the guys you like watching play sports or these like rich billionaire dude? You don't even know like that's the choice and I think a lot of fans can Do do that calculus in their head of like okay, so someone's making 80 million dollars a year That's crazy, but we know that there's this pool of money. They're dividing it this way, but I do think players agents unions team executives are kind of just like Bracing for the optics of that and how that's gonna as the disparity between what regular people make and what the best players make just continues To widen and widen and widen what does that mean for the NBA? I haven't really thought about it I hadn't really thought about it because I just it's 51% of BRI divided by this 35% of the Catholic It's just sort of a mechanical part of my life, but I live it every day I'm not a fan who wakes up one day and is like wait this dude makes 87 million dollars this year It is gonna be like almost strange in a way Adrian was asked to be reported on some of the details of Jalen Brown's potential super max extension with Boston and it will reach north of 70 Million should it come to the agreement at the numbers that it could land upon and I saw that 70 million number ripple throughout Social media that already grabbed people's attention when it's 82 and above it's going to be only more pronounced and it will come down to The idea in my opinion that a player missing a regular season game and getting paid a million dollars to do so when he's quote unquote healthy We'll be seen as highway robbery and I think a couple things need to be adjusted here in the sport so that does not Turn off potential consumers and fans and viewers and readers and listeners and everything else people come to be a part of the World as one and I'm still just already trying to do this you incentivize the regular season So that the regular season matters and whether that be you need to play in 68 games or more or with the 65 games or more to qualify for post-season awards whether that be You want to participate in the in-season tournament because there's a half a million dollar cash prize waiting for the team who wins it at the end per player These are things that are put into place in order to Hopefully get players to treat the regular season with more pride and then recognize that you are going to be a good steward of what it means to be A player and appreciate those fans who spend their hard work hard-earned money to go see you play by playing regular season games And then the second part would be and this is I don't know if this will ever de-bride itself So long as we talk about the sport the way we talk about it But the final to be petro be his name that they're Bill Russell 111 rings the universally kind of heralded guy As the goat is Michael Jordan it was six or six and maybe a final is winning six ring There's so much emphasis on having your team and you know your best players ready to go at their top form for the post-season That you'll sacrifice regular season period in order to get there and you'll take whatever You know backlash that may come if you believe that you are following a track that you better position to hoist the lego brian trophy at jude like That is going to remain a rock and hard place as players allergies ex-escalate and I don't know what we want like what what does tv networks?

One right I Theoretically you know when you get the the big numbers in the playoff You know television viewership, that's where the next tv contract spikes anyway So does anyone really really really want the regular season to be treated like balls the wall? well, and so I don't want to get too far into this but part of this is like part of the deal you you make when you sign a contract is that you play and we're gonna maybe see some scenarios and we already have with ben simmons of Of guys not playing and that's going to be a big issue going forward It's like I keep saying it with name like part of the deal you made when you sign the extension is you don't get to dictate everything I still think he ends up in Miami He's totally within his rights to have his agents try to get him to Miami That's all part of the game, but you are not free and clear do whatever the heck you want because you signed a contract Um, and also we in the media are not just like passive recipients and bystanders and all this like it's on us to like hashtag rings With a Z like the media is partly at fault for that Um, if we are on tv segments in three years where the host is like 100 million dollars so and so is not worth that It's incumbent on us even if it's boring to be like, yo, okay, here's the salary cap Here's why this guy's making this amount of money. This is just what it is anyway Lakers hard pivot back to the Lakers If all this player movement and drama and willard and blah blah blah Anthony Davis is eligible for an extension in august not much murmuring about that Uh, maybe because everyone just kind of assumes the parties will agree to a deal. What should we be looking for there?

Yeah, so come august 4th ad is eligible for a extension of three years 167 million dollars He has a one plus one deal currently right now He's under contract for next season this player option the following year Uh, listen, I asked romp link about it on the record He cited the cba and didn't want to begin negotiations before they're officially allowed even though it's his own player I feel like the league is generally like okay about that type of stuff But if he wants to follow the law that that's fine Uh, Anthony Davis in Rob Rob's estimation is someone that he has represented the Lakers really well Uh, so he decided how he played through his foot injury last year as was a major reason why they won a championship in 2020 And he wants to continue to have Anthony Davis a Laker So no alarm bells went off and then of course you circle back with people who know Not when there's the microphone and camera in their face and I am not too concerned about how this thing plays out Whether the max amount of years and max amount of numbers are reached that remains to be seen that will be figured out between rich Paul and romp link engineering bus and the like but uh, Where things stand right now? I expect some sort of agreement to be reached and a lot of it is one recognizing that Anthony Davis as a trade chip There's no way you can replicate the value of what he brings to the court combined with LeBron James when he's healthy Just you won't it's it's absolutely impossible You also recognize that the LeBron turning 39 years old entering your 21 as a limited window Uh, so then to try to coalesce with a new group if you were to find this beautiful trade for Anthony Davis Uh, that's that's folly. You could be wasting what you left the LeBron and then beyond that Listen, we know the business of this league. No extension offered.

What do you do? You apply pressure to the way and say I want out So I I'm I'm fairly confident that Anthony Davis will be coming into training camp And extended you I know Anthony Davis was the best defensive player of the playoffs in the entire nba Um, bam out of bio maybe had an argument too But I think to go back to let's just let's assume all this copacetic on the ad front to go back to what this team is and what it has To be to compete with the nuggets who lost Bruce brown i'm going to talk more about that with mike Schwartz Shortly to compete with the sons who are loaded or loaded up at least and finagled some picks over the weekend with some trades that we'll talk about Um as long as Anthony Davis is playing and healthy i think the Lakers are going to be a good defensive team They were a great defensive team last year. We'll see if they can replicate great Um, they they got a little lucky with opponent three point shooting, but they are rock solid rebounding team rock solid rim protection team They don't foul. Uh, there's a lot of stuff that they'd nail defensively and ad is just a monster um Reeves is a solid defensive player and LeBron people kind of focus on effort level and how he slowed down and all that He's still six nine and huge and people are scared of him And he's always in the right place at the right time I actually still think he's probably a slight net plus defensively Not on the days when he's just sort of like, all right, it's a back-to-back.

I got a coast here like what it actually matters And he keeps still a net plus defensively. We know those three dudes are going to start. They're going to play a ton of minutes together That's a solid defensive trio If the other two starters are d'Angelo Russell and rui hachamura And if I had to put money on it now, I would put money on that as the Lakers opening night starting five You know d-lo is a liability on defense and rui's okay. I thought rui made strides last year in every kind of area of his game toughness defense rebounding all of it Um, I still think that that lineup will be a good defensive lineup that obviously moves van der built into a bench role instead of like a starting five defensive stopper role Um, you could argue that gave incid should start a point guard over d'Angelo Russell I don't I mean actually there's not that much of a gap in their salaries They're I mean, I guess seven million is a decent gap But you know d-lo is kind of has the incumbency factor going for them But I think defensively this team's gonna be solid The question I have which is bizarre to ask is on the other end of the floor but before we get there What's your best prediction for their starting five at opening night regular season or do you care?

Does this even matter? No, I mean I care because it is an indication of what direction are going out I will say this last year darben ham said I'm the type of coach I like to find a five and go with it And something like 36 different starting line-ups rather Now a lot of that was out of darben's control and obviously they made major trades leading up to the trade deadline So that factored it too as well But uh my point being and sharing that is not to dunk on darben It's to say that even if a coach has that kind of view of how things should be done A lot of things happen over the course of a season So any like are fans that sees one lineup for the first game of the preseason or even opening night Recognize that there'll be many permutations here, but I'm not so sure about really starting over van though I think it really depends nor am I took nor am I to be clear I'm just I'm just being like best guess that's it right Um, I think it depends on how much ad gets his wish here and this is I think another sign of why I'm confident about Both sides coming to an agreement on extension is you know anything gave this has been pounding the drum ever since he arrived in LA That he doesn't like to Max out of his minutes at the five body takes a beating He likes having a big next to him for rim protection purposes, etc, etc They want the championship with big bodies and javil McGee and Dwight Howard The team not only listened to him in the acquisition of the jack and haze Uh, but made sure it was known that they listened to him In the comments made by darvin ham and rob linka to various reporters and various outlets myself included that this was Wanting to replicate kind of the lineup that had in 2020 in order to appease and Anthony gave us to make him feel good So there is a chance that with you know, they're Reupt committal to him with an extension of summer. It includes. Hey, I want to see that other lineup But you could very well see jackson haze ad And then I think if you go there, you know, it's it's austin at the three labron and labrana three I guess austin to and probably dilo but gay pincin will get a chance at some point this year And they got really good depth and if someone like a max christy can break through he's gonna shot There's there's a wild card in terms of their growth that's unexpected if cam reddish can kind of Do a little bit of what we saw with say Malik monk when he came to lake is a couple years ago off the charlotte and hadn't quite Lived up to the promise of his talent and they got their hands on him and all of a sudden He looks like the guy who was so highly talented coming out of Kentucky in this case reddish come not duke There's a chance there um or just like the marginal upgrades some like 20 and green Being marginally better than tori brown jr You got a ton of minutes for Lakers last year Like there's all sorts of ways that they got better so long as we don't see a drop off on the bran and ad stays on the court So you know again I'll go with it would not shock me if we saw jackson haze as a starting center to open up a season to see how that looks Wow, and then you do but You know, it doesn't mean that you're not going to see Anthony Davis playing center in the fourth quarter You know, that's that's winning time.

I mean jackson haze is showing glimpses as a switch defender I just can I just don't know I don't want that I'm going I don't know what he wants it does act. What if he wants it? You know, that's cool He can keep beating the drum I want to like do what the heavy metal bands do after the concert and just like destroy the drum and throw it on The floor and smash it and never see it again What's the last heavy metal concert you've been to exact? You don't know what I do.

No, no, it's been quite It's been a while It's been a while Yeah, sure Why not sign Tristan Thompson play jackson haze at the three and and you know, maybe maybe is there any other centers we can sign Anyway, look the chips are down ad's playing to five and maybe you can finagle the match up So van der like how they had Rui guarding yolk etching so ad can be so he doesn't have to take the banging And he can be a rover like they're they're a ways to do it You mentioned Torian prince. I like the idea of like a point Reeves lineup if you want size and defense like Reeves Prince LeBron Rui ad I kind of like that kind of group I think Torian prince would be a good player for the team But like here's the deal to Lakers They were 15th in offense after the rush trade so they really made their bones on defense They were top three defense they were 19th in half court offense for the regular season 12th in half court offense for the playoffs out of You know 16 18 teams if you count to play in teams, whatever it is And if you look at look now, this is this is it's hard to know how much it is to chalk up to the foot injury But LeBron's pick and roll volume reached career low levels by far in the playoffs total pick and rolls This is according to second spectrum and the LeBron ad pick and roll despite ad playing huge minutes at the five Despite van der built kind of fading out of the starting lineup and then out of the rotation to the fringe of the rotation As a Denver series were on opening up the court the LeBron ad pick and roll just wasn't enough of a thing They only ran 10 per 100 possessions in the playoffs, which is extremely extremely low and it was not effective when they ran it And LeBron's gonna be 39 And obviously this roster with Russell and Vincent and Reeves is designed at least in the regular season to siphon A lot of the ball handling not a lot, but some of the ball handling more than ever in LeBron's career away from LeBron But to me, that's the biggest question. I think this team is going to be a very good defensive team Their offense just wasn't good enough quite good enough to be elite elite elite in terms of where they were on the championship pecking order I think they need to get a little bit better offensively And I think they have the juice to do it like they've got some shooting they've got more ball handling They signed some good offensive players around LeBron and ad And again to me Reeves All this noise the most important thing that happened to them is Austin Reeves And if he has another level to hit and I believe you probably saw Darwin you may have written about it Darwin him Proclaimed that he thinks he's gonna make an all-star team at some point in his career Maybe that's just as simple as like those Reeves have another leap in him But that the question to me is just can they squeeze enough offense out of the group because I'm confident in the defense I might have been in my story. I think about the all-star proclamation with Darwin ham.

So yeah, I mean listen We'll see if Austin Reeves gets the USA. Oh, you know 25 year old being part of USA basketball That's voted quite well for other players in a league over the last 10 years since USA basketball It's cleaned up its act last 20 years almost at this point and Certainly everyone from the analytics folks who work for Lakers down through the front office And the coaching staff they recognize having the ball and awesome Reeves hands Is a great thing for this team You know rapping Lincoln told me during the playoffs that part of their analysis ahead of making their trades At the trade that line in parting ways with Russell Westbrook was seeing how effective that And that awesome reason was with the ball in his hands now I'll be a part of limited opportunities compared to post straight deadline But they thought that was enough of the sample size to encourage them to you know Pulled it then they all on Westbrook and thrust him into that role And he's a tremendous decision maker He gets to the free throw line and that that's such a trickle of down effect Helping a team you get into a team's bench because they had to take a guy out of line up when they get two or three Fals and then you sometimes have a talent gap and the players you're going up against and certainly When you have a 39 year old is one of your best players gives a couple extra seconds to catch your breath over the course of the game Etc et cetera et cetera et cetera and He's someone who you know there's a lot of guys who play hard in a league But when he plays hard, he's animated about it and there seems to be some sort of You know it's infectious with this Lakers group the way he approaches the game So he is I don't know with the big three, but he is vital to this team's success now But we had to recognize that you know He had hamstring and shoulder stuff the last two years when he missed chunks of time now the Lakers addressed their depth I don't think they would you know fall into the tank if loss of his head injury coming up this year But that's I think the next challenge for him is to continue to work on his body You know I've had people in the organization tell me like we just got to get him on the Caruso plan And you saw what out spruso went in the time he was with the Lakers the time he went to the bowl It's a body complete transformed and also he certainly has the work ethic and a level game to do so I do think there's there's more levels for his game to reach. Oh, yeah, he's still super young He's confident he's good with the ball ranging like he'll get better to me. It reads LeBron Davis We know that's those are the three most important players on the team It's too early to really project too much But I will say like all the continuity talk all this like Lakers winners and free agency This goes for any team.

There's a there's a tendency I think to say okay July 17th the Lakers have their team Like all of these contracts leave those three guys aside reves libron and ad all these other contracts are tradable There's no and that's not an accident There's no guarantee that this is the team On whatever the day after the trade deadline is in February and that could be a small change or it could be a big change But those contracts being where they are in terms of length and money Is not an accident and one should not assume that this is the team and the Lakers are set and this is how it's going to go They still have the 2029 first round pick. They'll have a 20-30 first round pick and use one of those two We'll see if you know jell knows if you know is a Player that they use on the court for themselves or someone that some other team out there would have interested in They still have about a million a half left over the middle level exception from the gave instant deal that they'll be able to use Potentially the buyout market in March. There are ways for them to get better than again. You know they are there's some amenable contracts You know, but we're all star and days or Russell if he looks more like you did in the Denver series Then he did the rest of the time he was a Laker That's not too hard of a number to swallow that you could attach a draft pick to Or second round or whatever it may be in order to find another $20 million player out there So they are both Accomplished.

I mean they've accomplished a lot. It's they're trying to start the needle between wind now without sacrificing all your future while Remaining them will should something come up and that's what they are right now And it's a good place to be yeah, they did a nice job They did a nice job where they fall in the championship picking order I'll talk a little bit about now with mike Schwartz as we hit the sun's Dave Beck minimum. Thank you, sir Enjoy LA hopefully get a little downtime soon and you are recovered from Las Vegas Dave You gotta be comfortable somewhere. Oh god.

I need to be next Dave. I saw my friend on the other side of the street I was heading to school with the kids. I let go of mom's hand to wait. I'd already forgotten their lunches I ran over to hug her she came out of nowhere and then It sucked Sometimes the moments that never happen matter most Volvo's automatic emergency braking helps ensure a safe ending for everyone learn more at Volvo cars.ca slash safety Square note that in hospitality efficiency is everything That's why the system lets you take payments track sales handle inventory manage staff send invoices and keep up with finances All in one place plan to orders with zero mistakes get the data you need and keep everything working together So you're ready for whatever's next learn more about their customizable plans.

Let's go up dot com Alright, let's switch gears and talk about another western conference contender The phoenix suns wheeling and dealing made another trade over the weekend yet another pick swap I think the suns are on a mission to concoct a 30 team a pick swap where there's one pick and every team gets a shot at it One to 30. They have now bifurcated all four pick swaps that they traded the wizards in the Bradley Beale mega deal campaign has gone Six second round picks have come in the door in two separate trades in which they've traded pick swap rights and uh boy Oh boy mike Schwartz ESPN research guru lifelong sons fan It feels like yesterday. We were talking about the feel good phoenix sons making the 2021 finals I let you do the intro to the podcast it was chris paul chasing the first ring With this rest of this sort of homegrown feel good plucky younger team And with the trade of camarind pain to the san antonio spurs which the sons will want it framed this way It is a salary dump they dumped campaign salary the second round pick that is coming back to them is more or less a fake Second round pick that they almost certainly will not get the only two players left from that team that is two years old Are debon booker and d'andre aden mr. Schwartz.

How are you? I'm doing great. And you know if you don't have any assets you've got to materialize them So it's kind of interesting that they were able to basically get six second round picks out of thin air Which should be useful is the team looks to make more moves They got a six point five million dollar trade exception in the campaign trade They have a five million trade exception million dollar trade exception from the dario shard straight at last year's trade deadline And now they have some stuff to include in in those trades They here are the seconds they have received in these two trades one of them was with memphis Working two pick swaps into their 2024 first round pick that they'll washington and their 2030 first round pick they'll washing And so phoenix essentially goes last in line on a three team pick swap of wizards grizzlies sons They got a grizzlies 28 and 29 seconds and a pelican is 25 second and then in these orlando trade by the way bull Anyway in the orlando trade over the weekend where they bifurcated their 2026 first round Pick with a swap that goes washington orlando phoenix. They got the nuggets 2024 second round pick which stinks the worst of 2026 seconds of Detroit or lando mil walkie and tbd and boston's 2028 second only if it is 46 to 60 So we are not talking about golden ticket second round picks They could end up being number 31 or 32 or 33 We're talking about a bunch of poop second round picks But if you can if you can heal enough poop together, you can make something out of it And that's what the sons are hoping for and bubble and with that they have 15 guys on their roster Ish wainwright is non-guaranteed i believe jordan goodwin is also non-guaranteed He will be on the team next year my point being this campaign trade combined with the trade exceptions and all the second round picks Is all designed to if we can get a decent player at the trade deadline for two three four five seconds.

We're going to get him Mike Schwartz I think that there's an air of Skepticism around the phoenix sons the 23 24 phoenix sons for a number of reasons They have now ended their last three seasons losing four straight finals games And then twice in a row getting blown out on their home court in embarrassing game six losses There is the lingering image of a bunch of overmatched role players missing open threes against the denver nuggets that the nuggets were just thrilled That they were all taking There is the lingering um distaste of the dehydrated money williams relationship and The knowledge that yes, the sons investigated the undrained trades The skepticism that that situation is really salvageable despite frank vlogals endless optimism about everything And I also just think that that and then the notion that there's just too much overlapping skill sets between beal and booker and beal Is going to take away from what booker does best we really want to have the ball and beals hands all the time And just sort of like we haven't seen Brad deal in a big game in like over half a decade The sense that he's kind of been putting up empty calories numbers in washington All of this is combined to kind of create this air of it's denver and then it's just everybody else and yeah Maybe phoenix is at the top of everybody else, but it's really everybody else and I'm here to tell you mike Schwartz I think the sons are being underrated. I think this team is going to be awesome I love what they did with their minimum deals and I would put them a top that pile of everyone else above the Lakers above the warriors above the clippers Not emphatically, but I would do it and I think they're going to be better than people think what say you Yeah, I completely agree with that. Um, I think the big thing that people talk about is The overlapping skill sets with the three stars kd booker and brad beal, but I look at it a little bit differently I think that when kd came we got a much better version of dev and booker particularly as a playmaker He went up to seven assists a game from about five then in the playoffs He stayed at seven assists a game. Um, his scoring was out of this world Obviously putting up around over 30 points per game in the playoffs And he was getting some of the easiest shots that i've seen him get especially in the regular season obviously in the playoffs They were trapping the hell out of him and making him take really tough shots But um during that eight no run during the regular season remember this team has not lost a regular season game with kevin dorant in the lineup yet Um, those two were really unstoppable and that was without a third player like bradley beal who I think During my previous podcast visits.

It feels like every time we talk about how the sons don't get to the free throw line enough They don't get enough rim pressure now you add brad beal who is one of the better guys in the league at that. Um, I think that Yes, it's it's three scores like I understand why people would be worried about them being duplicative But I see that more as enhancing. I mean we live in a positionless basketball world right we've been talking about that for years now Um, I don't think it matters that there's not really a true point guard and that there's some um overlap in the scoring I think these guys are good enough all around players that it's really gonna work Yeah, the lack of a point guard on paper is interesting. I don't think the sons care Um, they view booker and then beal and then dorant probably in that order as their point guards It worries me a little bit that they don't have like an a plus passer anywhere on the team, but but not but not that much um And, you know, I think the overlapping skill sets if you're gonna simplify it really boils down to this Um, we saw in that denver series that nuggets Dropped back against chris paul picking rolls before chris got hurt and they did that very intentionally debate chris into dominating the ball And shooting a lot of long twos precisely so that booker and dorant were not as involved in the offenses perhaps the nuggets feared them to be And I think um The fear with beal that the skeptics have is Well, first of all, he's gonna he's probably gonna be the smallest guy in their starting five I'm guessing catabates the op will be the missing fifth starter or it could be a kogi it could be any number of people But let's pencil and baits the op who's six eight or six nine at the He'll have beal have point guards on him.

So they'll have the smallest defender on him and I think the sort of fear is He will become the de facto number one ball handler too often and therefore take away from what booker and dorant do best rendering booker Like a secondary ball handler and then dorant just like running around doing stuff That will happen at times, but I am not actually worried about that I think that's a problem that the players and the coaches can work out amongst themselves and Before we dig into the specifics of it. I think one of the things that excites me about the roster is the versatility of all three of the main guys Um the size that they will be able to play with they don't seem like a big team But that's starting lineup is six four six five six eight six eleven seven foot um and Part of the solution I think will be the versatility mixing up who does what and where and also the speed with which they operate Both in transition and we saw as soon as Chris got hurt they amped up the pace and I think the half court things will flow faster And with a little bit more variety and what will come out in the wash I think is a top three offense in the NBA I would be very surprised if this team was not one of the very very best offenses in the NBA if not the best assuming health as always Well, look, I mean, that's yeah assuming health. I understand Biel has missed a lot of games Um, he's still not as big a health risk as chris paul who gets hurt in the playoffs literally every single year almost Um, but what do you what do you I mean offensively? Do you have any?

I mean the depth sure are we counting on debates the ops and the eric gordens who's i'm happy to count on eric gorden But josh a kogi you don't want to know be drew you banks like are we counting on those guys for real minutes? Sure every team is counting on guys like that for real minutes when push comes to shove They're gonna have two of Biel Booker and Durant on the floor all the time in the games that matter So offensively like we can talk about how it might look stylistically, but I don't have any Worries that what's gonna come out is not gonna be like a top three offense Yeah, and I think the the biggest addition of the summer was eric gorden because he gives them that bonafide floor spacer Not just from the three-point line, but from way beyond the three-point line to 30 feet He's one of the league leaders in 30-foot shots every year And I think if you put the sun's big four with DeAndre eight and we haven't really talked about too much yet as the the role Man with the three stars and then eric gorden and which I think should be their closing lineup Pending what you need defensively. I just don't see how you defend that because you kind of need to be helping off that fifth player As we saw Denver do throughout the playoffs and if it's eric gorden drilling threes from way beyond the line That's just too much spacing for how good the three stars are all three of the stars are Very good at coming off screens off the ball at a high speed catching the ball and going right into a pick and roll And that's not something that chris at his age and his size was really able to do And that's kind of what I mean by versatility You can throw the puzzle pieces around any way you want You can run a book or eight and high screen where eight and rolls down and sets a pin down for beal coming off The left wing and he catches the ball on the move and one of the things I looked up beal actually sets a lot of ball screens He said for a star guard He set like seven per hundred possessions last year in Washington Which was a career high and if he's gonna have the littlest defender on him I want to see Booker beal to rant beal inverted pick and roll He said he said ball screens for porzinga's last year here and there and you can get switches out of that And both the rant and Booker can play bully ball Another thing beal likes to do is set a ball screen for anybody And then have eight and kind of on the other side of that ball screen for beal to flare around catch the ball On the move and go you can just build infinite combinations out of this with stuff happening On both sides of the floor with eight and it's kind of a screening fulcrum insured da may not be thrilled to be described as screening fulcrum Sorry buddy. These other three dudes are on your team All of this is a long way of saying because of beal's ability as a screen setter And if you watch so I've watched a bunch of his screens today He's really good at actually screening slipping toward the foul line in that dremon spot He's gonna wear near dremon as a playmaker Let me be clear and making plays from there.

Like I'm just not really worried about I don't think they're gonna fall into a trap of oh Brad beal is doing too much at the expense of Devin Booker and Kevin Durant Yeah, I agree. I'm not worried about that at all. Um, I think you're gonna have a dual ball handler attack Like you said booker first beal second kd third and I think there's gonna be enough playmaking that you don't really need a traditional playmaker And with with all the size and shooting I agree completely it's gonna be a top three offense now defense Is where it gets interesting and that's why you hire Frank Vogel who's basically been a top five defense Uh more often than not he's been I think a top three defense like five times in his career And I think it's it's kind of like okay these guys you just roll out the ball These guys are gonna be a top three offense. Um now Vogel.

What can you do with the defense? So and that's where eight and becomes the most important figure absolutely Um by the end of last season he was completely out of sorts defensively Yeah, he had reverted back to making some mistakes of timing and positioning that he was making as a rookie When it was like is that a blooper like did he not understand what was happening there? Abandoning the ball way too early not helping on the ball at all Just stuff that left you thinking like is he just completely checked out of the game? Checked out of the team check out of the franchise and he might have been and it got to the point where like jock landale Was just a better option than deandra eight and and the sons are not going to be able to win the west and win the championship If at any point in the playoffs for multiple games at a time drew you banks or chamezi metu is a or dorant at center Which is I think a look they may try here and there when they will try here in there becomes a better option Then deandra eight and they're going to need his size and rebounding in defense and look he knows they looked at trading him he we'd all know that the relationship really fell apart and Now they all have to come back and repair it and I think frang vocal is like it's not smoked This new loves coaching centers.

He made roy hipper helped make roy hipper into a thing and Their road map to a good defense to me is tons of switching one to four and deandra eight and on the back line Defending in different ways depending on who the opponent is and if that one piece isn't there and falls away I don't know that they're going to be able to build like a top 12 to 13 defense Yeah, I agree and particularly in the playoffs against nickel yolkich It was weird to especially look back two years ago when the sons did make the run to the finals He was one of the key parts. He was incredibly engaged. He was putting up all-time numbers of shooting efficiency Combined with some pretty solid defense going through at anthony davis Obviously yolkich when two years ago, of course denver had uh jomal murrie injured and that wasn't quite this denver team But he did a nice job on yolkich straight up And then of course in the in the finals he was the only guy who had a prayer of slowing down jonus obviously He didn't all the time. They need that engaged high motor aton and obviously the dude was drafted in 2018 So we've we've seen a lot of him Motors kind of an interesting thing because he's just a guy who has an inconsistent motor He even as a somebody watching mid-arizona the motor was inconsistent then Um, I don't know how you coach that.

I don't know if it's as simple as vogel can bring it out of him But when he is motivated you see him He's can be an elite offensive rebounder He he can be a really engaged defender and then you see other times like last playoff run where it's like who is this guy and you're absolutely right Both the eye test and the plus minus numbers said jock landale was amazingly a better option against nicole yolkich last playoffs Well, they're gonna have to lift him up and by them I mean not vogel is gonna lift everybody up all the time to do it wishes all the journalists in the room Good luck with your deadlines before every playoff game. He's a fountain of hope and smiling optimism The stars are gonna have to lift him up. Yeah, and that's that that's gonna mean like Don't roll your eyes when he does the dandrey in thing of turning away from the rim to shoot a stupid jump hook instead of dunking it Um, don't get fed up with him when he wants to take mid-range jumpers and all that you've got you have to correct those things But you have to do it in a way where it's not shoulder sagging eyes rolling Oh, here we go again with this dude because they're gonna need that and it has to come from Durant who has not Historically, but known as that kind of leader and Booker who I think is in beal who we haven't seen in a high-stick situation in a long time He's gonna have to feel like those guys trust him and respect him and have his best interests for this team to be good enough defensively to win and by the way like Durant's a good defensive player Booker has become a solid defensive player I think we'll see a renewed effort from beal they have these guys that will come in off the wing off the bench and do their jobs um And if you have a great offense and you don't foul and I They have to correct this fouling problem that they've had for a million years And I think frank vlogo historically has done that with his teams If you have a great offense and you can set your defense and you don't foul you have a floor That's not high But like you're kind of walking in is like we can be the 20th best defense in the league just doing that stuff And then if we just learn our scheme and do it every single time we can get to 12th 13th Whatever and that's good enough to win the title. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely So like you said it starts with eight and then um joshikogi was just a huge just a monster defensively down the stretch Last year he played a lot in those kd lineups that like I said went eight no during the regular season Kind of fell off during the playoffs shooting wise Just didn't have much confidence in his jump shot But I think he's a player that shouldn't be overlooked. I think he could play a huge role Even be a starter at times this year and um he's just himself makes you a much better defense Well, he lost his starting spot against the clippers to tori craig because they were worried about matching up with kawaii And the first round and you wonder if that kind of killed his confidence a little bit because he had been All you want from joshikogi in the regular season is defense is a given Rebounding is a given. He was literally one of the best offensive rebounding guards in league history last season in terms of offensive rebounding rate Cutting on offense. That's a given uh beyond that You just wanted to shoot when he's open because you just need a full season of him doing that So he knows like I got to shoot these corner threes if i'm open and he seemed to lose that confidence I like him the reason I would go with baits the up is yeah at first is I kind of want to see what I have He's shot.

He's big and rangy. He's a fantastic cutter Which is something I want around these dudes that are gonna draw all the attention And he shot 39% from three last year. I need to see if that's real spin up and down Need to see if it's real and I like a kogi in the screen setter role On offense as sort of like their bruce brown back when bruce brown was doing that for the nets with the ramp Um, and that's harder for him to do with eight and on the floor because it kind of marginalized his eight and a little bit That's the reason I would go baits the up but again Like you said gordon is gonna close a lot of games as the fifth guy and you know all these guys are gonna get chances to play No, I agree I think you start off with baits the up I would honestly use the regular season just to experiment and try different guys especially in different matchups If there's a really tough perimeter player who you want a kogi on a lot I'd start him. Um, if it's a more general matchup I'd probably go with baits d-up and maybe even you know try what Navi just see see what they look like with the starters I think the the regular season should almost be a 82 game pre-season where you see what kind of looks you have Because I think that was one of the big issues in the playoffs They literally had eight games They had no idea what rotations were supposed to be game to game They completely changed one game damian lee was playing the most minutes off the bench the next game He didn't even play so I think this should be all about making sure you have your rotation set You know which groups play well together and um, whatever though if that costs you a couple wins in the regular season No big deal.

Just kind of need to figure that stuff out. I will say I can't totally dismiss the sort of I'm not skeptical, but I understand why people are it does feel like Culturally, there's a fragility to this team that you do worry like we have seen the eight in situation spiral out of control before We've seen like we saw what happened with the rants team in brooken It wasn't his fault, but like it just He just kind of he wanted out by the end and like and and beal will have to see how it all blends Um, but on paper I think the team is better than people even are giving a credit for I will ask you though as a fan Are you excited about the team or do you wish do you wish they had kept together the twins mccail bridges cam johnson like that team Like there's just part of you miss that group and wish you had just kind of carried it forward You know really zach it's to me. It's a no brainer. I've been a fan since 93 the franchise been around since 68 Longest running team without a title.

No, I want Kevin Durant on my team I want Bradley beal on my team. I want to win the title I think we saw early last season that last year's team Wasn't gonna get it done like mccail bridges incredible player absolutely love him Can't wait to cheer for him on team USA, but I want whatever raises the title odds And I think there's no question that having Kevin Durant and Bradley beal Significantly raised the title odds compared to what we would have been talking about a year ago with this team where it was still Sort of the homegrown team. So love mccail love cam wish them all the best Michels a free agent in 2026. We'll see.

We'll see. Oh boy. Oh, he's laying seeds for 2026. Oh, yeah, absolutely But no exact I want whatever is gonna win this team a title.

I've been waiting way too long for this So I think that what they've done certainly increases those chances. So I'm excited for that I think the homegrown is what got them there They did such a good job with that that they were able to have the pieces to trade for Kevin Durant And um, I'm excited about what they have now. Can we at least agree on this Matt ish be a flopped in the yolkich incident He went on record with brian windhorse and was like, I didn't flop I was just trying to get out of the way and avoid touching the collier dude you you Reclined in that seat more aggressively than like my grandpa after a day at the carpet salesmen location in pittsburgh Pennsylvania back in the day like he fly he flopped like come on sure Maybe maybe a little bit of a flop, but you got to give him credit I think booker and kd told him after the game how often does your owner get you a point like that's pretty crazy How many owners have gotten a point and playoff history not very many right? You got to give him credit for that even though there was a little bit of a flop.

No credit Zero got them a point So DeAndre eight in last year 18 points 10 rebounds 59 percent shooting 60 percent on two sounds good on paper, right? DeAndre in three point revolution never really happened. No, um Defensively I thought before last season he had grown into a clearly above average defensive big man One of the one of the rare legit seven footers who can protect the rim and drop back and pick and roll is strong enough to battle Everyone in the post no one can battle yolkich anymore. He's achieved on guard.

It's gone Nobody can guard yolkich in the post But everyone else and and get out like if you need to corral a pick and roll at the three point line Like he can do that and he's fast enough to do it and get back to his guy and Offensively I like I know like we all roll our eyes when he like catches the ball and spins away and does a stupid jump hook Yeah, but I 18 a game is not nothing and maybe I'm maybe I'm dumb Maybe I've done the thing where it's I've let it colored my brain too much I go back to that series against the pelicans from the 2022 playoffs all the time when booker was hurt And he was putting up 20 a game pretty regularly in that series or 18 to 13 27 and 14 big scoring games and like making Creating buckets out of nothing automatic mid-range jumpers And I don't know how you get back to that guy, but that guy is legit really really good Not an all-star not an all-star and that's fine They don't need to be an all-star, but like a legit really good NBA center I just need to see that guy come back again because I People talk about the Android 8 and now like he's just like a 10th guy Like he's a has already a has been somehow like they need to get rid of him and you know Maybe at some point the team thought yeah, we don't love this contract we would like to get rid of him But he's a he's a good I still think he's a good player. Am I missing something? Am I letting that pelican series color my brain too much? No, that's what's so flummoxing about him because he is like physically.

He's got everything you want physically, right? He's strong. He's got the athleticism even back to college. He's been able to guard on the perimeter a little bit Obviously not against the best guards, but he can hold his own at least so That's I think that's what's so frustrating about him because you don't get that the Andrei and all the time And you don't know when you're gonna get that the Andrei and because even again go back to the Denver series two years ago He was probably that I mean Chris Paul was unbelievable offensively, but certainly defensively.

He was the MVP of that series I think he was a big reason that that was a sweep he was able to do a decent enough job on yokech He's he's a really good finisher. He's always been a super efficient shooter. I know he had some sort of Field goal percentage streaks in 2021 so he gets it done at both ends He's he's a good mid-range shooter. Obviously you don't you don't want him taking those shots But for a big man, he can make it really everything except for the three ball like you said never never really happened It's just you don't know what effort you're gonna get out of him on a on a daily basis You don't know which the Andrei and you're gonna get if it's the if it's him playing his hardest and at his peak That's a well above average center So yeah, it's frustrating and at this point like if you look at what the sun's roster has outside of starting center And you say like who would you want to be their center?

I'd say d'Andre eighten would be one of the top players you would say because he's a guy who can who can be that defender Um who does a little bit of everything and he he's a really good finisher He's he's gonna get so many opportunities to finish It's just like it feels like he wants to be like what jordan pool is on washington where he can just take a ton of shots you know and just kind of create and do whatever he wants but Yeah, that's that's why he's frustrating because he always should be better than he is he shows some Some Tantilizing potential and doesn't quite reach it. Yeah, he should get on the phone with Jeremy grant Who's another guy who wanted to see what he could do as another one option on a team went to Detroit didn't turn down Yeah, I think it was the same money that denver Alfred went to Detroit because he wanted to do it He actually did much better than I thought and they lost a ton of games And that's what's gonna happen to Jordan pool and that's what happened to d'Andre eighten And that's what I mean by they're gonna have to lift him up because he's not gonna be the player He wants to be and he's not gonna be the player every night that they want him to be and everyone is just gonna have to accept that and try to make the best of it and try to lift him up and I think I think Look Booker is Booker is like he doesn't want a title But he's already kind of a made-man in the NBA in terms of like the respect level that he has what he's done on the biggest stage is he's gonna title for his own, you know satisfaction probably but Durant is obviously Kevin Durant Yeah, but he's he should be like just just super hungry to come in and win this year given that He's never going to be given the quote-unquote credit He thinks he deserves for being a two-time finals MVP on the Warriors just because of the circumstances under which he joined a team It actually flummoxes me that Durant doesn't and I love Kevin Durant as a player It's confusing to me that he appears still puzzled by why that is that he doesn't get the credit like he shouldn't know in that The minute he thought about signing there how that was gonna be perceived and now any level of success He experienced was gonna be perceived that's not to say you shouldn't have signed you do whatever I really want if you gave me a gazillion dollars to live in San Francisco and hang out with Steph Draymond and Clay I would do it just don't expect to be given equivalent credit to like Dirk Navitsky on the 2011 Mads or whatever you want to say Giannis sorry on the 2021 bucks Sorry Mike to bring that three that one up and Biel man People need to go back and watch like young Brad Biel going up against Tom Thibodeau's defense in the playoffs when he was like 20 years old Go watch him against the Hawks that won 60 games in 2015 Against the Celtics even in 2017 with the Celtics beat him in game seven that dude has had some massive playoff games Yeah, and more than that The manner in which he's played in those games from day one when he was in the NBA He might have been 19 I don't know how young he was very young because he came to the league very young and he's facing this like the remnants of this ferocious defense he was completely fearless and comfortable with the ball and comfortable in the moment and I I'm hopeful that he wants to come out and and be like I've heard the noise like my contract my contract stinks Do it the Suns were done to give up like a bunch of second round picks and picks was for me overlapping skill sets I'm not a winner. I'm expecting kind of a big season from Bradley Biel And I think he's I'm hopeful he delivers on it Yeah And the other thing I love about having Biel as opposed to last year's team with with Chris Paul is there will inevitably be games that Katie and book miss hopefully not any long-term injuries, but Having a guy like Biel who can shift into that one or two role I think it's gonna be really important just for regular season maintenance obviously in the playoffs You need all three of them kicking on all cylinders But I think having a third guy who has been a one and who can be a one for stretches I think is gonna be really helpful Well, and he's he's also going to be targeted on defense almost like the way curry was by default as the smallest guy in some Lineups the guy who opposing point guards are gonna be defending a lot so you know He'll be he'll be guarding ball handlers on the other end of left to get around screens something He has not been really good at the past few years Let's see how he handles that kind of sort of mismatch hunting that he's gonna face You know he's gonna have to fight and they're gonna have to cover for him But he's he's showing his a willingness an ability to do that like there's a world in which this all goes badly And there's in fighting and sniping and they're like eight and eight and it's like on the verge of crumbling I kind of think it's gonna go the other way where these guys are gonna be excited to play together Yeah, there are some warts to iron out But this needs gonna be really good to be clear Denver's the favorite This is the best starting five in basketball with the best player in basketball and the best home court advantage in basketball And they just won the championship. They're the favorite Jeff Green all do respect Was a big part of their championship team.

He's replaceable Bruce Brown is not just like an average bench guy that left He's not even an average sixth man. Really. He was part of their closing lineup on tons of nights and handled the ball a lot There's a lot that happens in the offseason. Everyone knows that that loss is gonna hurt Denver That is not a trivial loss like they fell back a little ways toward the pack and I think Phoenix is right there kind of next in line Yeah, I agree I think that's certainly how it should be looked at going in and I think that if that is gonna be the Potential playoff matchup in a series that decides the West.

I'm excited about what the sons have compared to what they had last year I'm certainly with having Brad Beale instead of Chris Paul who played one and a half games in that series and was done but also just having so much more on the bench and like I said earlier having what hopefully will be actually cohesive units and actually Knowing what the team wants game to game as far as what their rotations look like I mean, they're just gonna be really hard to guard you think about it like You can't it's gonna be very hard to have two bad defenders on the floor against them And your your point guard is gonna have to guard someone He's gonna have to guard Beale or he's gonna have to guard the Bates D. Op spot And if you put him in that spot then you have to have three really good defenders to guard the Beale booker Durant trio three guys who are comfortable on the perimeter who can run around screens, you know other than that You're gonna see the weaker defenders hide on Bates D. Op like that's where Zion will go where Luca will go But it's just it becomes hard to arrange the chess pieces in a way that is not uncomfortable for your defense against these guys I think these guys would be fun and really really good and in the inner circle of championship contenders Yeah, you always talk about you know, what's the least bad choice and when you're guarding the Suns, especially with that Gordon lineup They're man. Every choice is bad.

There's no least bad choice Well, the least bad choice is gonna be the other guy shooting it over the three as right, right? And they're there Gordon is a not great choice No, if it's Air Gordon that's bad and whoever the other guys on the court They're just gonna have to activate him as a screener on and off the ball And I think they have to pace and the versatility to do that like if the little guy is it the worst guys on Josh Akogee use them as a screener It's gonna be fun Man, we got a lot we got a long time to talk about these guys We got a long off season ahead, but I thought it was time to start just sort of picturing what they're gonna look like on the floor Mike Schwartz any last words on the Sun's anybody we didn't hit that you want to talk about? Yeah, no, I'm just excited I think that I think those are three stars that are like we've seen in the past with Star Trios that it's kind of dueling banjos I think that Katie and book in particular have so much respect and work so well together that we're not gonna see that I think it's gonna be more of a cohesive unit We shall see Mike Schwartz I'll see you in Los Angeles, but not for a little while now before I go back out there for NBA today Enjoy the off season and we'll talk to you soon. Sounds good.

See you soon

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