Hi, this is Ashin Singh here with the final episode of What Happens To The McStays. Remember, you can catch up on the entire series for free if you follow what happened to the McStays on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or whatever you're listening now. Or listen to this entire series ad-free and discover so much more from 2020 by subscribing to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today.
Now here's the final episode of What Happens To The McStays. Our icons are what make cats iconic. Cat's Eye, Wild Hearts, now available on Disney Plus and Hulu. Visit Disney Plus dot com forward slash What's Hifen On for more information.
Terms of black. Hey, I'm Brad Milke, hosted ABC's Daily News Podcasts. Start here and if you just finished listening to the captivating story of what happened to the McStays, I think you're going to really enjoy this special bonus episode because today I'm here with the host who led us on this journey, Ashin Singh, and today we're going to dive deeper into the story. We've got some interview material you have not yet heard in this podcast, including...
I can hear you right now, yes. What ABC exclusive interview with Chase Merritt from Prison. We're going to get into what we learned from that interview. But first, let's welcome our guest here, our host, rather, Ashin Singh.
Ashin, you've been with ABC for like 10 years and that time you've done lots of reporting, especially for Nightline. This was your first time hosting a podcast though, right? So what's that been like? Yeah, Brad, thanks so much for having me and sitting down with me to chat about this.
This project has just been unbelievable. It had a few opportunities to kind of delve down the True Crime Path with Impact by Nightline. I've done some stuff on some kind of current cases, right, the Delphi murders, the GoGo Beach murders and obviously the long-standing cold case of who killed Tupac Shakur. But I think what made this one so fascinating for me is that this was a case that had lived on the hearts of so many people back in 2010 and then for years, nobody actually knew what happened.
And so for our team to be able to dig through this archival material that ABC had been collecting over the years and get a clearer picture of this case that almost feels like it couldn't happen in the year 2026 and then to get to sit down and work with our ABC audio team in a podcast, it really leaves no stone left uncovered. You really get to dive into the nitty gritty of the story. And the story about the McStae family, like you said, so fascinating. It's so heartbreaking.
As you start like turning those stones, I guess what really stuck out to you? What grabbed your attention as you started examining this? Yeah, Brad. So 2010 doesn't actually feel like that far back, right?
But in reality, there are advances in technology that investigators now have at their disposal that they really didn't have back then. And so how much technology has advanced since the first investigation, even though it really wasn't that long ago, it's almost like a crime of days past but happening in the modern era. So now smartphones have apps that show whereabouts as opposed to only having a cell tower that was pinging back in 2010 and their cameras everywhere. But San Diego investigators, they were looking at footage from one neighbor's security camera.
Now at one point, this grainy footage that was taken from the border. And you mentioned like the grainy surveillance, like even the idea that you have to look that closely to tell like which side of the car or the exhaust pipe is like all of that seems so far away. And yeah, so close. Literally, exactly.
Like you said, like somebody's ring doorbell cam probably gets you better footage at this point, but that's just not what they were dealing with. Exactly. So now it's really interesting to me that there are two different investigations going on here. First, you have the San Diego police trying to figure out exactly what happened to the McStays.
It was this missing persons case and there wasn't this discovery of graves. So police did not have this explicit knowledge of foul play like they did in the second investigation. So the nature of the way they even went about this investigation was totally different. And then you have this murder investigation and they're kind of coming at it from a completely different angle.
They have these remains. They know someone killed them, but they need to find out who. So the cases are like these two investigations that are happening in two different timeframes. They almost tell two completely different stories.
And so it was interesting to see how the custody of the case changed hands from San Diego to San Bernardino and the sort of different approaches that were employed here. So now that you wrap this though, I guess how does the story sit with you? Like what feelings remain as the whole series came to a close? You know, Brad, what I love the most about this story is obviously there was a conviction.
Obviously Chase Merritt is in jail as we speak, but you know, there are a lot of little elements of how this investigation unfolded and a lot of open time frame that it leaves you scratching your head. You know, I would love to know more about the days leading up to the McStays disappearance, particularly what was going on with Joseph. You know, Joseph and Chase had this meeting at Chick-fil-A at February 4th. Right, but Chase is business associate at the time.
And we have no idea what the tone of that meeting was, but I mean, as far as we know, like that is sort of where everything unfolds or as far as we assume that is sort of where everything unfolds. So did Joseph really ever sever his business partnership with Chase that day? Was he confronting about checks like law enforcement was alleging? And so it's the unknowns of this case that really do stick out to me, but law enforcement and prosecutors thought the totality of the evidence could only point to Chase and they presented this to a jury and Chase was found guilty of these murders.
We heard family members say it was a relief to finally know what happened and you think like you must have been just waiting for answers for so many years. Then you ultimately learn that Joseph Summer and the two boys, Johnny and Joey Junior were truly gone. One thing that stood out to me while listening to the series was just how many incredible interviews ADC had with people really close to the case kind of from all sides of the story. So when we come back, we're going to hear more from these interviews and you won't want to miss this take from an ADC exclusive with Chase Merritt in prison.
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Spotify advertising connects you with an audience that's engaged and ready to discover your brand. Launch a campaign with Spotify ads manager. On October 19th, 2025, the Louvre became the backdrop of something straight out of a heist movie. Now, nearly a year out, there are still critical questions to be answered.
We're used to following heist and movies from the perspectives of the ever so glamorous and dangerous perpetrators. But when it happens in real life, the lines between good and bad guys aren't so clear. And even less clear is the fate of those French crown jewels. In this series, I'll take you inside the events of that day, like you've never heard them before, through the eyes of the people who lived them.
I'll follow the investigation into how this could have happened, who could have been behind it, and then I'll join the International Hunt for the Louvre jewels. Heist at the Louvre, a new series from ABC Audio. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcast app, or subscribe to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts to listen ad-free. All right, and we are back with our series host, Ashan, saying, and Ashan, you just told us a little bit about how it felt getting to know this story.
And I think it's important in all of our True Crime Podcasts to get listeners the chance to learn about the people at the center of it, right? The next days. So you and the team were kind of able to reveal their story through the people that knew them well, the friends, but also through law enforcement investigating the case. You guys got the trial lawyers from both sides.
Yeah, exactly, Brad. A wide circle of people sat down for interviews with 2020 through the years. It was important to learn about the next days through those people who cared for them, like you had said. And they have a lot of friends who wanted to make clear to ABC that this was this loving, kind family that deserves to be remembered outside of this tragedy.
Those loved ones worked hard for years to not only get answers, but justice. And then you mentioned law enforcement. I think just having an insight into this investigation that could really help kind of put the strings on the court board as to how investigators were able to come to the conclusions that they did, especially when there was no crime scene, Brad. But wait, let me just say wrong what you said about the loved ones, not just caring for years and years, not just following it.
Because one detail I found interesting was it was not just the police searching for clues. It was some of these loved ones as well. Yeah. So Joseph's friend and colleague in the waterfall industry, Gina Watson, said she actually connected with Joseph's dad, Patrick, when the family was first reported missing and both were scouring through Joseph's online records for information in her interview with ABC, Gina said she got really into sleuthing.
She just got really close with Patrick as they searched for clues. Now Brad, keep in mind, our series covers the events of the story and the investigation. But in between these events, there's also so many months, years I'm talking about of worrying, looking for leads, pouring and re-pouring over documents, hoping that the family of four actually just turns up. And so you could get a sense of how that time was for the loved ones in some of these interviews.
And we hear from Gina Watson here. I will say, yeah, I got a little obsessed. And then I ended up meeting Joseph's dad, Patrick McStae. And he was kind of in the same boat that I was because obviously being the father, the grandfather of four missing people he considered some are like a daughter.
And it was, you can only imagine what kind of head place he was in. And he's older. He's exactly my dad's age, my dad's still in my life too. But Patrick felt like a second dad very quickly because like I said, he would talk just like Joseph and talk for hours and tell me memories about Joseph.
Another interesting thing that Gina shared in her 2025 interview with ABC is she said she raised flags about Chase at one point. One of the first people I thought about sadly was Chase Merritt. And I actually emailed the detective that ended up being in charge of the case in San Diego. And I guess I must have been suspicious enough to sketch out his addresses, his last known phone numbers and emails.
You need to talk to this guy. You have to talk to Chase Merritt. I'm sure you've heard of him but just in case. And I didn't know at the time, like am I being helpful or am I just being annoying?
I just can't imagine the mix of emotions that come with years of searching. You'll do anything for answers. But then slowly you have these new leads dry up. You still don't know what happened.
We know many people close to the McStae's were interviewed before Chase was even arrested and at trial, Chase's defense team actually pointed fingers back at one of those people. Dan Kavanaugh, they alleged that defencilaged that Dan was the person who killed the McStae's even though he had been cleared by police. Well, so they checked his alibi and he was in Hawaii at the time the McStae's went missing. Prosecutors said at trial that there was no evidence to justify actually pointing the figure at Dan Kavanaugh.
But then he said, I'm talking to ABC, right? I thought that fascinating too. So what is Dan up to now and what did he have to say about this whole experience? Man, I find Dan fascinating.
So Dan spoke to ABC News last year and at that point he's living in Hawaii, he's a wellness entrepreneur. And so he said he sold the waterfall business, Earth inspired products about a year after the McStae's had actually disappeared. Said he wanted to part ways with that part of his life. But he also says that the false accusations that were leveled by Chase's defense team despite having always been cleared by law enforcement, Brad, like that continued to impact him.
You know, it's just too much stress. There's another dragging her name through the dirt and mucking up your name. So that sucks. But there's a way to recover it and there's hope, you know, you just have to double down on your strengths.
One thing that really stood out to me was episode five, I think, was hearing from Kathy Jarvis. That's Chase Merritt's ex with whom he has three children. She has maintained Chase in a duet. She says Chase was with her.
The night officials think the McStae's were killed. So it's really interesting to hear from her and yet another sit down interview. But it also doesn't make me wonder, Ashin, about how Chase's conviction, you know, there's the victims of the murder, the convictions like this then affect the family of Chase Merritt, like the family he leaves behind as well. Yeah, for sure.
And I think that's one of the struggles that she said she experienced both financial and otherwise, especially since Chase Kathy said was still helping the family financially when he could. After Chase's arrest, money was tight. I mean, basically our son working kind of paid for food for us. She also said that she had to have some difficult conversations with her son.
It was really hard telling him, you can't talk to people about that. You can't. There's people are going to make assumptions, you know? So don't talk about your dad.
Don't let people know. It wasn't anything I talked about with my friends either. I kind of stopped trusting people so much that I tried to deal with all of this by myself. Again, it's really incredible sort of access to all the characters that you've sort of led us through.
And of course, then there's also Chase, right? So he will likely be in prison for the rest of his life. He was found guilty of brutally murdering his family in Joseph Summer, Joey Jr., and Johnny McStae. And despite that unanimous guilty verdict, though, Chase has continued to maintain his innocence.
And after the break, we're going to hear what he has to say from behind bars. That precisely 8.23 pm, Roger Kwan was not waiting for a table outside his favorite restaurant with his girlfriend. So a passing sports coupe did not splash all over her, making her question why she was dating him. And a second car did not splash her again, confirming her belief.
All because Roger skipped it, stayed in, and with the skip app ordered the best chicken tecan masala sheet ever had. Confirming, Roger might just be the one. Way to go, Roger. Skip to the good part.
Spotify, it's Chase Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people? Scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads, then they do on social? Let me introduce you to fans.
They're here with me on Spotify. Trust me, I know fans. They don't skip, they stay for hours. They don't move on, they manifest.
They're not a demographic group, they're fans. Spotify advertised, you're among fans. Joseph and I were very happy to have kids and everything. Now Brad, as of recording this today, he still has not filed his habeas petition, but at the time in his interview with 2020, he did say he was working on a book.
Some working hard on trying to be getting the word out is to exactly what happened during the trial. So I'm doing well with that. You know, my situation is what it is. And I have to deal with it day by day.
And I can't let it get me down. And overall Brad, his stance on the case still hasn't changed. I didn't work with a fellow. I am innocent.
And I will be out one day. And the truth is about this case will be out. Yeah, and like you said, no habeas petition has been filed. So sorry, the captivionation for a decade.
And I got to say, there's a lot of interest in the media and online, like so many people following this throughout. You know, once you go through the case, you start to understand why there are websites and discussion forums, analyzing all the details of the story and discussing these personal theories. There's a documentary that followed the defense team during the trial. And there's a book, not including the one that Chase has plans to write.
So it's this really complex story with mystery and multiple investigations. And it all culminates in a huge trial. I know when we normally tell these stories, it's from the perspective of who done it. But this literally starts out with a what happened.
Right. So the people who love them today is they have to try and pick up these pieces while they're also trying their best to remember and honor their family. I do think that's the thing I picked up from you today is just how much people had to live in both realities of they could still be alive. They could be dead.
And those are two different types of investigations. Aashen's saying such a well told story. Thank you so much for sitting with me and breaking it down with us. Brad is always a pleasure.
And thank you. All right. And I'm Brad Nilke. Catch me on start here every morning for every lesson now.
I'll see you later. Can't wait for more. Listen to the next episode ahead of everyone else ad free. Subscribe now to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple podcasts.
Click the link in the description to start your free trial today. I'm not a hero anymore. The vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy. That family wasn't real.
You sure about that? I had a father called Vision. Oh, is this possible? Don't miss the two episode premiere of Marvel television's Vision Quest.
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