Meet the Press NOW — April 25

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The Ford, it's a big deal. Events. Visit your Ontario Ford store or Ford ca if it's Friday. The White House defends the FBI for arresting a Wisconsin judge accused of helping an undocumented migrant avoid arrest, further escalating the Trump administration's conflict with the courts and its crackdown on the border.

Plus, President Trump faces mounting political pressure at home and abroad to deliver on key campaign promises as new poll numbers show his economic agenda and his political party are underwater with Americans. And new details on Defense Secretary Pete Heist's breach protocols, as officials tell NBC News the embattled pedagogue has been acting, quote, erratic, insecure, and lashing out at colleagues. Welcome to the Press Now, I'm Kristen Welker. We begin with breaking news of a major escalation between the Trump administration and the courts over enforcing its immigration policies.

This morning, the FBI took the dramatic step of arresting a county judge in Milwaukee, accusing her of obstructing its efforts to apprehend an undocumented immigrant. According to a criminal complaint unleashed today, unsealed today, the Justice Department claims Judge Hannah Dugan helps that undocumented immigrant Eduardo Flores Ruiz evade federal authorities when they showed up outside her courtroom to apprehend him. Flores Ruiz was in Dugan's courtroom facing domestic violence charges. The complaint says the judge essentially distracted federal agents and then led Flores Ruiz and his attorney through a non public jury door, which then prompted a foot pursuit with authorities.

Earlier in the day, FBI Director Cash Patel tweeted but then deleted a post about the arrest. Attorney General Pam Bondi spoke out about the case this afternoon. We are going to prosecute you and we are prosecuting you. I found out about this the day it happened.

We could not believe actually that a judge really did that. We looked into the facts in great depth. That's her picture up on the screen. Hannah Dugan, who is now in custody.

You cannot obstruct a criminal case. And really shame on her. It was a domestic violence case of all cases, and she's protecting a criminal defendant of her victims of crime. Now, in a statement, Judge Dugan said she will defend herself vigorously, looks forward to being exonerated.

The White House, meanwhile, is also defending the arrest, calling it a no nonsense approach to immigration enforcement. The president was asked by reporters about the case this afternoon. He didn't seem aware of the specifics, but he did attack the courts for, quote, as he said, holding us back from enforcing his immigration agenda. It comes as the administration is battling a number of very high profile judges and other immigration cases, prompting pushback so severe that two judges have threatened to hold the administration in contempt for defying court orders.

In an interview recorded before this morning's arrest, President Trump doubled down on his attacks on judges who rule against him. Obstruction and what they're doing to the country is unbelievable. But we're getting it done and we're winning. But it's so much more difficult than it should be.

I'm joined now by NBC News senior White House correspondent Kate Gutierrez and NBC News justice reporter Brian Reilly and NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos, who's also a criminal defense attorney. Thanks to all of you for starting us off. Dave, let me start with you. President Trump just weighing in on the case of this Wisconsin judge.

What he said. Yeah, that's right. Question? Well, he was asked by reporters on Air Force One about this case.

He actually pivoted to another case that's unfolding right now in New Mexico. There's a judge in New Mexico arrested this week for allegedly harboring a member of Trinidad. That's what President Trump was referring to. But then as you said, he made that broader point about the courts holding us back.

In other words, his administration is really focusing on this issue, that they feel that the court system as a whole is getting in the way of his immigration crackdown. We heard from the Department of Homeland Security also this afternoon, pointing out that this was an undocumented immigrant that did have a criminal record that had entered this country illegally twice. And so the White House is also talking about this no nonsense approach and basically saying that judges who get in the way will be prosecuted. Yeah, I mean, that takes me to the next question.

What are the implications for other judges? The president clashing with a number of courts right now. Exactly. This shouldn't be a surprise in some ways, even though it's quite dramatic for me to have a judge arrested in the parking lot of her courthouse.

But Tom Holman, President Trump's borders are have been saying for a while that if local officials got in the way of their immigration crackdown that they would take legal action against those local officials. Just a couple of months ago, in late January, we heard that the Justice Department was starting to investigate a sheriff in upstate New York for doing this very thing, for releasing an undocumented immigrant. Still, though, this is a dramatic escalation to have a sitting judge have be arrested in the parking lot of her courthouse. I should point out, Kristen, back in the first Trump administration in Massachusetts, there was a judge who was indicted for something similar to this, but those charges were dropped when she resigned herself to a judicial review.

It is just extraordinary, the circumstances of this latest arrest, we should say, given at least two federal judges have indicated they may hold the Trump administration in contempt. Is the Trump administration trying to send a message to those judges? I guess, as broadly speaking, what message does it say? In a way, it's very interesting, Kristen, because this case is different.

This was a judge that got in the way of the arrest of an undocumented immigrant who had a removal order. In the instances that you described that those are federal judges that are getting in the way of the Trump administration of broader policy. Yes, President Trump has blasted those federal judges for getting away. There is one body, though, that he really hasn't, and that's the U.S.

supreme Court. He has stated from attacking them, knowing that he could end up relying on their rulings. But certainly this is intended to send a message to not just the judiciary, but local officials across the country that they, if they get in the way of the Trump administration's agenda at their own peril. And that is truly remarkable when you think of judges now potentially getting arrested for, you know, either rulings or things that go on in or outside the courtroom.

This arrest was supposed to happen in a public hallway. The administration says that this judge had no reason to impede those federal ratings. It's just extraordinary. Gabe, thank you.

Let me turn to you, Ryan. I mean, just pick up on where Gabe left off, which is, what are the details that you're learning about this extraordinary arrest? I mean, as Gabe points out, it's not every day that we're reporting on a judge being arrested. Yeah.

You know, there's a reason why ICE agents like to do these arrests inside of court, and that's because people have to go through a screening process first. Right. So that originally means they don't have a weapon on. That makes the situation less dangerous.

But there's also a reason why judges don't like the idea of these outside federal agents coming into local federal courts, and that's because it's going to discourage people from reporting to court, and especially in the case of victims as well. If victims are worried that they're going to be picked up on their immigration status, that's going to lead to less cooperation with police officers in the first place. Less people are reporting to court. So the Schilling effect is something a lot of advocates really worried about that in that case.

But, you know, this is a really fascinating detail. And the judges obviously, click back on this, already issued this statement. But I would note, you know, that arrest in the parking lot, that was something that Catherine came out up front and announced before any of the details of the case were doubly then took down that tweet. And that, you know, they did not extend this judge, the sitting judge, the courtesy of saying that there's an indictment, informing the lawyer, working through a process, and instead arresting her.

Whereas Donald Trump was extended that courtesy with his Supernova Case 64. They did not arrest him in a parking lot. Jackson's team took a different approach there. So that was an escalation, I think the idea of arresting a sitting judge in the parking lot.

What do you think? Cash Patel tweeting and then taking the tweet down. What's behind that? Yeah, you know, we don't.

We don't quite know, but I mean, just these. It's very unusual to have these very sort of charge statements from both the FBI director and from the attorney general about these cases because they could impact that case down the line. That's something defense attorneys would love to pick on. And whether or not this was a really political case and, like, make that case the jury or could, you know, could impact the case in many ways down the line, it's very unusual.

I'm very clear. What are you watching for next in this case? I mean, the next hearing, you know, there's going to be hearing this. And what happens to the judge's docket as the rest of these cases are playing out?

That's a big, outstanding question, guys. Thank you so much, Ryan, Gabe, really appreciate it. Let me turn to you now and get the legal perspective based on the allegations put in the criminal complaint. Does it sound like Judge Dugan did obstruct the arrest of an undocumented immigrant?

What do you make of the facts of the case? There are two separate charges, the lead charge. And the more serious, and I say more, only slightly more serious, is the obstruction of a proceeding, which requires, due to recent amendments, that the person doing the obstructing do so with a corrupt purpose. And this language is hazy enough that it is somewhat defensible.

I think the government's Stronger case is the lesser crime of harboring a fugitive. If you look at the statute, it seems pretty close to what the alleged facts are, at least what we're hearing so far. So it may be the case that the obstruction of the proceeding is more defensible than the lesser charge, but both are felonies and both. And frankly, every charge in federal court is serious.

Danny, just zooming out a little bit. I mean, is there a precedent for arresting a judge under these circumstances? I can't remember reporting on a judge being arrested, quite frankly. Yeah, we arrest judges all the time and prosecute them, but not for this kind of conduct.

Usually it's something involving some kind of corruption or something else, some official misconduct. But in this case, it's very clear that the only basis for the arrest is the allegations that she somehow helped spirit away the defendant who was appearing in her courtroom. So I'm not aware of these kinds of charges happening before they could have. It's entirely possible.

But this is something that is certainly relatively to applying these two statutes in these circumstances. You know, Judge Dugan is a county judge. What could that mean about the types of charges that she's facing? Could she be more susceptible, for example, to federal charges?

She is. I mean, she's being charged by the federal, she's being charged federally. And of course, then when you run into all kinds of problems in terms of your, the bars with the bar, you could be suspended, you could certainly be taken from the bench, depending on how that state handles criminal charges against judges. But undoubtedly my expectation is that she would not be hearing any future cases, even if she's out on bail.

And she will be out on bail. There's already been an initial appearance, but likely as not, she will remain out. This is not what you would consider an offense where the presumption is that the person is held in custody pending their trial. So she should be out fighting this case.

But the sound reality is, whether you're a judge or just a regular person, the feds have a near over 90% conviction rate. And really 90% of people, even federally charged, plead guilty. Of those that go to trial, over 90% are convicted. Wow.

Danny, finally, before I let you go, as I was discussing with Gabe, two federal judges indicated they're really to hold the Trump administration in contempt. Does this arrest potentially send a message to those two judges? Not necessarily, but I will say this about the contempt every day in courthouses across America, attorneys and civilians are held in contempt all the time. And the decision making process happens there in an instant.

About as much time as it takes to hit the gavel. Notice in these cases that all these judges are taking so much longer than you would expect to hold someone in contempt. Every opinion appears to say, well, this time I mean business and this time I'm finding probable cause and next time I'm finding someone in contempt. And you know what?

I don't blame them. Because if you find someone in the Trump administration in contempt, the next very difficult question is who in the heck do you hold in contempt? Is it some line prosecutor? Is it an FBI agent?

Is it the only person in the executive branch who can't say my boss told me to do it? The only person who can't say that is the president. All right, as always, we appreciate your insights. Thank you so much.

Great to see you. We want to turn out to the Pentagon as we are learning new details about the turmoil surrounding Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, including his decision to install a so called dirty line or an Internet connection that is not secure in defiance of normal security protocols. Now that comes amid increased scrutiny of Secretary Hegset and his management of the Pentagon as officials tell ABC News that the Fed secretary's behavior has become erratic as he worries about his standing inside the Trump administration. Joining me now is NBC senior national security course line at Courtney Qb Court.

Thanks so much for joining us. So how is Secretary Hegseth handling what really has become a drip, drip trip of negative headlines? It has. I mean, it's almost every single day there is some news story about Secretary Hexthat's judgment about his use of the way that he handles sensitive and even classified information.

And now, Kristen, we're hearing that it seems to be having an impact on his behavior. Officials here telling us he's behaving increasingly erratic and that he seems increasingly insecure about his role here at the Pentagon and his role within the Trump administration. Telling Ace frequently that he just can't lose meaning he cannot allow himself to be fired. One of the ways he seems to be handling this is by going on Fox News and making videos and putting that on social media.

His goal, the official said, is that he wants to deliver a message directly to President Donald Trump. He wants to show him that he's continuing to fight. The question though is, is that actually working so far publicly, President Trump and Vice president fans, they are saying that they still stand behind Secretary He. Well, and obviously watching these headlines, we'll watch to see if there are any more that come out.

A lot of people might hear that term dirty line and not quite Understand what it means. What are the implications of having conversations, including sensitive conversations over a so called dirty. Yeah, so it's not just the line that's the concern here. Basically a dirty line is a way of saying an outside unsecured line.

So something that you would not want to transmit any kind of sensitive information of it. Why this is so much more such a bigger deal than just the line is where it was going. It was going into the secretary's office. That is considered a skiff, a secure compartmentalized information area.

That means that the computers, the phones, everything in there should have the ability to transmit safely classified or sensitive information. It's even to the point where people come in, have to be, they have to put their phones outside your Apple Watch or airpods anything. You cannot bring that in. But it's not just the systems in a skiff.

A skiff says it should be a secure or safe space to even discuss sensitive information. When you introduce an outside line that does not have the basic security protocols that the military secure communications have, you open up the possibility for the communications over that to be vulnerable to happening hacking, to monitoring. When you're talking about the central defense question, obviously he would be one of the biggest targets in the world for adversaries, for hackers. Any kind of vulnerability like this, it just, it's not the kind of behavior it completely flies in the face of general security protocol here.

It's not kind of behavior we are just seeing out of Secretary Defense. Well, you have been all over this reporting, Courtney qb, thank you for bringing us exclusive new details. We really appreciate it. And coming up, as he hears the 100 day mark, the President takes his growing pressure to fill key campaign promises amid signs from the public that their patience with these economic policies is running out.

Plus, more than three quarters of US Voters say nothing in US Politics will change without a new generation of party leadership. That data is straight ahead. You're watching the press now. Stay with us.

Welcome back. It's near the 100 day mark of the second Trump administration. Pressure is mounting on the President at home and abroad as several of his signature campaign promises have hit serious roadblocks. Most notably the economy, arguably the main reason Mr.

Trump was elected. His pledge to lower costs. Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again to bring down the prices of all goods. Prices will come down.

You just watch. They'll come down and they'll come down fast. Not only with insurance, with everything. Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again.

We'll do that. We gotta bring it down. A vote for Trump means your groceries will be cheaper. But on day 96 of his presidency, Americans appear to be growing frustrated with his handling the economy and economic issues.

Our new NBC News station poll has 6 and 10 disapproving of his handling of inflation and the cost of living. A Fox poll out this week had more than half of respondents said Mr. Trump policies are hurting the economy. And the Washington Post ABC News poll out today had 64% disapproving of the way he's handling tariffs.

We have new reporting that retailers are warning of product shortages and empty shelves caused by the president's tariffs. And a lack of clarity from the White House about its strategy or endgame. President Trump telling Time magazine in a new interview that he's made 200 trade deals but would not share specifics, including which countries are supposedly involved. He also told Time magazine that Chinese President Xi Jinping called him even as China denies that any trade talks have taken place.

And the president dodged questions from reporters today about the specifics. You said that you have spoken to presidency. When did that happen? China does.

It haven't happened. I spoke numerous times. You said you spoke with President Xi. Have you spoken to him since the terrorist?

I don't want to comment on that, but I've spoken to him many times. When did that happen? I'll let you know at the appropriate time. Let's see if we can make a deal.

Let's bring in a couple of MBC news knowledge, the very latest NBC shots and doors of the White House and chin and penny pieces with me on set following the shipping crunch as a result of these tariffs. Shannon, looking forward to delving into that with you in just a moment. Let me start with you because President Trump told Time magazine he's done 200 trade deals. Take us inside.

What's the reality check there, Kristen? The reality check is that we're not sure where the president is getting this 200 number from. There's no clear indication that he's made 200 trade deals. There's been nothing announced publicly.

We know that Trump officials have said everything from 90 deals have been signed to 20 deals to 10 deals. Well, we know that nothing has been publicly announced and we continue to await whether or not we'll actually get details on these deals. And so far, President Trump has not wanted to provide any of those details for citizens. There's been so much focus on what he said about talking to President Xi.

And I think that montage there laid out so well the fact that there's still no specifics on what exact call he was referencing in the Time magazine interview. What are your sources telling you about whether there have been any substantive talks with China and whether they're close to any other trade deal? Well, this is really a confusing situation because Chinese officials are saying over and over again that there are no negotiations on tariffs. The Chinese embassy tweeted just today that the US should stop with this confusion.

But of course, you didn't have President Trump who was insisting that he is negotiating and that there have been talks. I just talked to a show who told me on background, so I didn't want to be named, but told me that the two presidents have not actually spoken, that they're essentially in a game of chicken with both of them, not wanting to be the first one to pick up the call because of the domestic politics that they're both facing. But it's still a big question mark when and if these two leaders will eventually talk. We know that both sides want to make deal.

China, much like the US does not want to be in the trade war right now. That being said, of course, it is President Trump and his tariffs that started all of this. So it'll be interesting to see how this goes. Kirsten it sure will be.

One more headline from Time magazine, President Trump saying that he was joking about his campaign trial promise to end the war in Ukraine on day one. What can you tell us about that? Yamiche? Well, President Trump is continuing to say that he wants to put an end to this, where he spoke about it on the White House laundry before he left for Italy.

Take listen what he said. We're going to make our country rich. We're going to try and get out of war so we can save 5,000 people a week. And that's what my aim is.

I want to save 5,000 young men. They happen to be mostly Ukrainian, Russian. 5,000 young Ukrainian and Russian men. And that's, that's a big honor if I can do it.

I think, I think we're pretty close, no deadline. I just want to do it as fast as possible. Now, let's remember the president has also said that the US Feels as though that this won't be closed soon, that the US could walk away altogether. Another headline from that Time magazine interview that's really interesting is that the president told Time magazine that Crimea will stay with Russia.

Of course, that being the strategic peninsula that Russia essentially took away from Ukraine. This is before the large scale invasions in 2014 when President Obama was still in office. But the president said essentially that Ukraine needs to make concession and just give up Crimea. Of course, the president of Ukraine said they want all their territory back.

So that's in some ways a view of what's been going on. Kristen. All right, you should cover the angles there at the White House. Thank you so much.

I'll be turning to Shannon Petty petition and you have been delving into the reporting about what this all means for Americans. There's a lot of concern about the possibility of empty store shelves. We haven't exactly seen that yet, even though there is fear about that. But you have delved into what this could mean for imports, right?

I mean, retailers say shortages are coming now. A lot of the big major retailers, they have been front loading their inventory. They've been raising to get as much product into the US as they can for these tariffs take effect. But that period is over.

These tariffs are now being implemented. And so retailers large and small, so they are canceling orders, they are halting shipments of products. They are leaving millions of containers of goods in China that are not coming into the US Products that consumers depend on. And these could be everything from low cost children's wear footwear to perishable items like fish or apple juice or garlic that we get processed for China.

And how quickly could consumers actually feel the pinch there? Well, because a lot of retailers did bring in inventory, they're saying these shortages we could start seeing over the summer. So that June, July period. And then there's further on things like back to school.

Retailers right now should be placing orders for all this back to school merchandise, but they're not because they don't know what's going to happen with these tariffs. And in a few months it's going to be Christmas crunch time when all of those orders for Christmas gifts, Christmas merchandise need to be placed. If they don't uncertainty about the tariffs, the retailers warned they might not be able to order those Christmas products as well. There's been a lot of focus on some products where prices have already gone up, like baby strollers, for example.

Some baby strollers get a number of their parts from China. Shannon, based on your reporting, is that going to be the norm, that products made in China or they rely on parts from China are going to see price hikes? Right. It's not only shortages but the stuff that is coming in.

Those retailers for every $100 worth of merchandise, they have to pay $145 in tariffs. So now $100 baby store to bring in cost that retailer about $250 retailers say there's no way but not to pass that cost on to consumers because of your small retailer, you don't have the cash to cover that. And the big ones, they don't want to sell these products at a loss. How is the White House perceiving all of this and the concern of the possibility of these store shelves?

So I spoke to someone who was a bit familiar with the conversation with retailers earlier this week. They said that that prospect of empty stor more of an impact on White House officials than all the months of warnings about high prices. There seem to be a perception, and of course, this is one person's opinion, but that that seemed to resonate in a way that higher prices didn't. But at the same time, I've talked to other people who say they still don't expect any concessions, any changes anytime soon on these China terrorists.

All right. Shannon Petty, peace. Great reporting. Thanks for bringing it to us.

We really appreciate it. Coming up next, Steve Kornacki is at the big board breaking down a brand new batch of poll numbers on both the parties political standings. You don't want to miss this, so don't go anywhere. You're watching the PRESS now.

Welcome back. We've got some brand new numbers from our NBC News station poll that shows that there is, not surprisingly, a lot of pessimism right now when it comes to the political parties and whether Americans feel like their parties are fighting for them. My NBC News colleague Steve Quantity is a big board of the deep dive into these new numbers. So, Steve, what are the top lines here?

Yeah, Kristen, we're seeing a lot of disappointment, I think, in both political parties from all voters. But also we're paying attention to this poll to a particular group of voters, the youngest Gen Z. And some interesting patterns in numbers here, too. So let's start with this, asking folks their view first, the Republican Party, all these numbers you're seeing here, we ask them if you have a positive or negative view of the party and what this is nationally.

Overall, everyone in this poll by an 11 point margin, they said negative, not positive. 11 points underwater, 11 points more negative than positive for the Republican Party. What's interesting though is look right next door to this. This number is the millennial number, excuse the millennial, the Gen Z number.

I gotta get used to this. The Gen Z number. And look at that. It's three times the negativity there.

30 points more negative. Gen Z is on the Republican Party than positive. So the Republican Party, not that popular overall, but it's particularly acute with that youngest group of voters. Then you work your way along the line here.

Basically this. You're here more into the millennial, into the Gen X, into the boomer categories here. And you can see actually by the time you get to 45 plus, the Republican Party is about as popular as it is unpopular with those voters. Now take a look at the Democratic Party here, more negatively.

It's almost twice as unpopular as the Republican Party with all voters. 20 points more negative than positive with all voters. And yet the opposite is what we're seeing with those Gen Z voters. Look at this.

Much less unpopular, more popular, you might say, the Democrats than the Republicans. This generation as a whole, when you're looking at the two parties, it's a lot more hostile to the Republicans, a lot more friendly to the Democrats than voters overall. And again, that is at odds with what you see with the older generations as you start to look at those numbers right here. Yes.

This question of folks here, which party fights for you? I thought this is interesting. We're changing the age a little bit here. We're putting everybody under 45 in one bucket, 45 plus in the other bucket here.

No real difference here. About a quarter of voters under 45 say the Democrats fight for them only. It's 24% over the Republicans. It's interesting, though, Republican aligned, younger voters, they may be more aligned, they may be aligned with the Republican Party.

They don't think it's fighting for them as much as older voters are who aligned with the Republican Party. So interesting finding right there. And then here's an old standby here, asking folks, you know, if you get a younger generation, if you get a younger generation running things, is that the only way to bring about change? And again, here's wide agreement.

Here's consensus, three to one, basically nationally. And then every age group here does seem to agree with that proposition. That one, I think has been true across time. Chris, maybe that's human nature right there.

I think it is. I was impressed that you were able to keep millennial Gen Z everyone separate. Good job, Steve Kornacki. I really appreciate it.

Thanks for joining us and joining me now to break down what those numbers mean, my panel, NBC News politics reporter Alan Smith, Democratic strategist and former Obama campaign advisor Amisha Cross. And Rob Lui, president and executive editor of the Daily Signal. Thanks all of you for being here. Let's break down what we just saw in those poll numbers.

Steve makes the point that universally both parties are kind of unpopular. But it gets more interesting when you ask the Question who is fighting for you and does there need to be generational change? The generational change question to me is so interesting. First off, you got about three in four voters saying we have to have generational change before we see any change in Washington.

And those numbers are actually really in line in every age group, 18 to 29, 65 plus. They basically agree there needs to be a new generation of leaders driving change. You're already seeing this play out in Democrat campaigns that we're seeing, you know, across the battlefield. Right now I'm thinking about in Michigan, Mallory McMorrow.

She's already calling for a new Democratic Senate leader rather than Chuck schumer. She's about 38 years old. You're going to see a lot of Democrats are driving home this point that the change that can be brought can be brought by elected officials who were younger. It's such a great point that we've really seen this take hold inside the Democratic Party, particularly in the wake of former President Biden stepping down, handing over the torch to Kamala Harris.

But as Alan is pointing out, I mean, you have Democrats across the board starting to say it's time for a new generation of leaders. How much do you think that is going to be a factor in the midterms as we get closer? I think it's going to be huge factor in the midterms, but I don't think that it's going to make those older Democrats decide that they're going to have a challenge. That's not how this works.

As the day of Chicago and Washington Durban say that he's going to not run for re election. That is a huge thing. And there's going to be a lot of young people who run. There's also going to be a whole lot of people closer to who is 82, who being that race as well.

I think that for this isn't a new trajectory or a new question. Every few years we have a younger group of vibrant individuals who are ready to, you know, take on the world. And at the end of the day, because of the process of getting, you know, finance, the finance is up to make it happen in name recognition becomes a very hard, you know, heal to climb. I think that the party right now is indeed a change.

What does that change? Being younger or does that change means that the old guard actually figures out how to get it together and give a message and a fight that people understand in these streets. Like what we're seeing from Bernie Sanders out here. He's given a lot of young interest but with that being said, I think that the whole party needs to come together and figure out how to create a message as well attraction on the ground because right now the Democrats have seemingly lost their way.

I do want to talk about Bernie Sanders. We're going to do that in one second. I'm glad you bring up Misha Rabbi, I'd love to get your take on what we're seeing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're seeing the same groundswell inside the Republican Party for generational change, even though the polls say that we're not really hearing it vocally yet.

It could be, Chris, because Donald Trump has effectively anointed his successor in J.D. vance, who's in his 40s. So I mean, you have a situation already where I think he's viewed as the next generation and he's been people in his cabinet and there are elected Republicans who are younger. I will say Republicans did go through this process not too ago when they wanted to see a change in Senate leadership and McConnell obviously stepped down and gave way to somebody else.

But the important thing here, I think regardless whether a Democratic Republican, is that you have a situation where Congress is deeply unpopular. What about 30% of the political parties themselves are deeply unpopular here. People, I think want to see Washington do something, get something done. So far they've been frustrated.

Alan Smith, you talked about Michigan Senator Alyssa Slotkin is pitching what she is calling a war plan for Democrats to ditch the weak and woke label that they've acquired really strong language a part of Democrats are really trying to as talking about, find their footing and a coherent and cohesive strategy. Right. She wants to channel lines coach Dan Campbell, his biting kneecaps energy. Yeah, we'll see if she brings that out.

But there's a great book recently written Fight RC Jonathan Allen, co author and Alyssa Slotkin over the summer had said, you know, Kamala Harris was, you know, too woke of a candidate to win the ball for Democrats. So I don't think it's necessarily a new page for her, but it really eliminates the fight that's happening the Democratic Party over, you know, just how quote woke are we comfortable being. Yeah. I mean you bring up Bernie Sanders and obviously he's been crisscrossing the country with Congressman Alexandra Ocasio Cortez.

I want to play white or I want to read what Slotkin had to say. She says Democrats should stop using the term oligarchy, a phrase she said that doesn't resonate beyond coastal institutions and just say the party opposes kings. What do you make of this and what are the implications for the oligarchy tour? I think that Alyssa Slot is right.

At the end of the day, we know that unfortunately, the average reading comprehension level of Americans, unfortunately is between 4th and 5th grade level. When you're using a term like oligarchy, when we're talking about things like these esoteric terms that most people cannot comprehend what they mean in real life, there's a way that we can break it down and sell them. They know what the rich means. They know what it means to have money shipped it from them and given towards billionaires.

They know what these tax breaks for the wealthy are. They understand what it means. When you're saying that you're going to cut Social Security, when you're saying that you're going to communicate, when you're saying that, you know, housing costs and these things continue to increase, I think that there's a better way to get the message across than what is happening on that bumper sticker or the side of his campaign bus. Oligarchy is not something that transcends anything that he can use the world on that.

They are getting big crowds, though. Let me ask you about what we're seeing as it relates to President Trump's numbers. He's holding steady when it comes to his approval rating in most polls. But boy, when you look at his ratings on the economy, he's underwater for the first time, including in our latest NBC News poll, which shows that basically 60% disapprove of his handling of inflation and the cost of living.

That's largely why he was elected. How concerned Republicans? Well, I think that they will increasingly become concerned. You've seen changes in the generic ballot.

You see this number when are asking about their personal finance is getting better or worse and more people are saying are getting worse. I mean, that tracks closely and has historically with presidents and their approval rating. So I think it's important for Donald Trump to pay attention to that. I think that's probably why you started seeing some of his messaging on terrorists and trade this week.

He recognizes that he was elected on the promise to bring down the cost of living. And he has an appeal to those working class voters that I think are turning out for some of these Democrats now. And it's an open question for them as to whether or not another Republican can have that same appeal to Trump did. Yeah, that sure is.

Alan, how long do you think voters are going to give President Trump? He's saying, hey, look folks, you got to give this tariff Policy a chance. He says we are, in his words, resetting the table here. He says he's going to make the playing field level.

But do voters at some point run out of patience and are they already starting to base on these polls? I think it's going to. It's going to be at the point where they start noticing fewer things on shelves. Prices really starting to go up.

I think for the president's supporters are willing to give a lot of leeway on this. But the issue is there's not really a set amount of time that the president's putting out there. The White House doesn't want to do that because they know as soon as there's a set time limit, they're going to get hammered forward as soon as it gets close. But I think for voters, they need a sense of how long is this pain supposed to last.

Yeah. Abby and Mesha goes to another part of the debate within the Democratic Party, which is how focused should Democrats be on the economy right now? Because some of them are very focused on the deportation issue, which by the way, Trump still gets high marks on his handling of the border and deportation is his best issue still to this day. So some Democrats saying, hey folks, let's stay focused on the economy.

What do you mean of that? What are you hearing? Do you think there will start to be a shift? Absolutely.

And Democrats have to track almost 100% the economic play. The reason why polls are believed that Trump garnered voters small across the board in the last election was largely because of a belief that he had an economic agenda and economic priority that would make those who are going to depend him fatigue. Who caused the littenhead increase radically, who couldn't afford the price of banks. He said he would bring them down.

All of these everyday costs and they're continuing to see them rise and they're only rising higher because of this terror strategy. So I think that for Democrats is leaning in on what's the price of eggs now? Can you afford childcare? Can you afford to be able to buy all the school items are going to need regular food.

It is a very hard time for them. And I think that for Democrats, they have to really lean in on this is a promise he made. This is a promise he cannot keep. And the American public needs to hold this piece of fire.

All right, guys, unfortunately we'll have to leave there. We out of time. Thank you all for being here. Alanim, Rob, great conversation.

After the break, President Trump heads to Rome to attend the funeral for Pope Francis and possibly meet with several world leaders after saying he thinks we're pretty close to a Russia, Ukraine peace deal. Stay with us. You're watching. Welcome back.

With just hours now before Pope Francis is laid to rest, his coffin was sealed. This afternoon, the Vatican releasing these new images of that liturgical right which marks the end of the public viewing in St. Peter's Basilica. A white veil was placed over the face of the late pope and his body was sprinkled with holy water.

A pouch containing coins minted during his pontificate and a metal tube with a legal document recording the pope's life and work were placed in the coffin. A quarter of a million people from around the world are estimated to have visited the Facilita to pay homage to the Pope over the past three days. And city officials are now preparing for the estimated more than 100, 000 people who will converge on Vatican City for the funeral tomorrow. That includes 130 international delegations, including 10 monarchs, 50 heads of state, according to the Vatican.

At any moment, President Trump and the first lady are expected to arrive in Rome. We also learned today former President Biden and Jill Biden will be in attendance for the funeral. You can watch NBC complete cover to the funeral of Pope Francis on NBC News and here on NBC News now beginning tomorrow at 4am as we just mentioned, President Trump will be among the dozens of world leaders attending the pope's funeral tomorrow. While departing from the White House this morning, the president said he hopes to meet with some of those leaders in Rome.

We're going to meet with a lot of the foreign leaders. They want to meet. Trade deals are going very well. I think Russia and Ukraine, I think they're coming along, we hope very fragile.

And Iran I think is going very well. We'll see what happens. The president also said it was possible he will be with President Zelensky, will also be attending the pope's funeral. It comes as the Trump administration tries to ramp up pressure on Russia and Ukraine to agree a peace deal.

Today's special envoy, Steve Witkoff met with President Putin for a second time in a month as a part of those negotiations. But just hours before his arrival in Moscow, Russian authorities confirmed a high ranking military general was killed in a car bomb attack accusing Ukraine of, quote, terrorist activity. Joining me now is Lisa Lab at Edward Russell at the Council on Foreign Relations and host of the Cosmopolitics podcast. Elise, thank you for being here.

Really appreciate it. I want to start off by talking about these peace negotiations. This is what President Trump said to Glenn back in a recent interview. I Don't believe that Vladimir Putin would be doing this for anybody else but me.

A lot of people have said it, too. I think he had the idea of going all the way through. I think he's willing to make a deal. And I would say thus far he's been easier to deal with than Zelensky thus far.

Elise, what do you make of where these negotiations stand and of the rhetoric that we're hearing from President Trump? Will it matter if he meets the President Zelensky on the sidelines of the post funeral? I don't really think so, Kristen. I mean, you know, this is the first time that he will met Zelensky since that awful February meeting where he kind of, you know, lectured him in the Oval Office and then canceled the press conference.

And there's been a lot of talks since then. President Trump still hasn't gotten that deal on the rare earth minerals that he's waiting for because President Zelensky is waiting for some security guarantees from President Putin. And when you listen to what Steve Wyckoff is telling Putin, it looks like the deal is still shaping up for Putin. Putin, they're saying, you know, Ukraine will never get Crimea, not that anyone really thinks they would have either.

They're never going to join NATO. Zelensky really can't sign on to a deal until he knows that he's getting something for Ukraine. So, you know, these conversations with Steve Wickham Putin, they're really secretive as opposed to what's going on with the slinky, which is a little more transparent. Yeah, it's a really great point.

You know, when I talked to President Trump a couple of weeks ago, he said to me that if he didn't see the type of action for President Putin, he wanted to see that he would consider putting secondary tariffs on President Putin's senator Chuck Grassley, Republican from Iowa, is urging the president to put sanctions on Russia. Writing on X you ought to see from clear evidence that he is playing America as a patsy. Do you have any anticipation? Does your reporting tell you that President Trump is seriously considering imposing new sanctions?

I don't think that anything is in the offing eminently, let's say. But he did say yesterday when there was this horrible attack in Kiev that President Trump 100 troops social and said, Vladimir, stop it. He doesn't like, you know, it is true, he is playing Trump for patsy and President Trump doesn't like that. So he's making a lot of threats.

And he's also, you know, he's getting frustrated. You've heard him. You've heard Secretary State Marco Rubio, you know, President Trump could lose interest and move on. And then I'm really afraid what would happen for Ukraine.

That's still on the back foot right now. Yeah, We've Marco Rubio exclusively on the press. We should say, since you mentioned him, let's talk about the Pope. The president is there to mark his funeral, to attend his funeral, pay his respects.

What was their relationship like, Elise? Well, it was very frosty. And you remember during the first term, the pope would put out statements. Anybody that's building a wall, not building bridges, is sowing division, is not a Christian.

And he never mentioned Trump per se, but you can kind of read between the lines. And he was very critical about, you know, climate change, not President Trump's policies, but efforts to deny climate change. He criticized the US Withdrawing under the Trump administration from the Paris climate agreement. And he also, if you remember, the pope was, you know, felt very strongly about migrants, refugees.

And these are policies that, you know, President Trump was not forward leaning in terms of, you know, advocacy for the poor for things like that. And so I think it was frosty. And they had a very tense visit in 2017, if you remember. Well, I do.

And Elise, it's so helpful as we watch the optics unfold at the Vatican in Rome. Thank you so much. Great to have you here. Elise stillicom, we'll take you to a deep red Texas town calling on the White House to take action for the tens of thousands of immigrants in America legally now facing the threat of removal.

Stay with us watching the press now. Welcome back. This week, the UN Special representative to Haiti warned that gang violence there is surging, pushing the Caribbean nation to a point of no return. It comes as many Haitian migrants here in the US Are living in limbo as the Trump administration attempts to eliminate the Biden era program that brought them to the US Legally.

NBCC has the story of one couple who found a home and a community in a small town in Texas and are now facing the possibility of returning to the violence and instability they fled. This past Easter Sunday in Panhandle Texas, Shirley Jean was praying for a miracle for her and her husband, Kevinson John. The couple immigrated legally to the US from Haiti in 2023 through the CHNV Humanitarian Sponsorship Program started by then President Biden to help curb illegal immigration from certain politically unstable countries. What made you want to leave Haiti?

The situation is very dangerous there. They are armed gang controlling many areas. The two got jobs and made friends. But now the Trump administration is Ending the program and in letters like this one, telling Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans and Venezuelans in the program that they have until April 24th to self deport or face deportation.

And while a judge has temporarily paused that order, the Trump administration has appealed and the court could rule as early as next week. Go back to 80. It's a descendants. And for the more than 200,000 Haitians in their situation, there are also logistical challenges.

The FAA has banned all U S flights to Haiti's largest airport in Port au Prince. There are still flights in northern Haiti, but a couple of other state gangs controlling the roads there make them unsafe. How hard is it to get back to Haiti in this moment? It's a wall right now.

So going back to Port au Prince is like killing myself. Pierre Esperance, a human rights activist living in Haiti so the situation there is worse than it was in 2023, with gangs now controlling 95% of metropolitan areas in Potter Prince Haiti is a country that has always had problems, but these problems of insecurity are unprecedented. On Monday, I questioned President Trump about the situation. These are patients who came legally through that Biden era program who their communities, even Texas conservative voters saying that these people should not be forced to leave.

In a statement, a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security called the Biden era program an unlawful scheme and said multiple third countries have agreed to acceptations deported from the U.S. stephanie, a U.S. citizen who brought eight family members over from Haiti legally through the program is bracing for the worst. She is not showing her face and only using her first name because she is concerned that her family will be targeted by immigration officials.

I wrote it here taking this going to to be safe and if I took him out of a burning house and served them in the service instead. Back in Texas, knowing Kevin's church have changed some of my views. Knowing them personally and seeing the struggle and seeing the fear that comes with all of the situation, it's humanized the problem. These are people we just want to continue to ask all of you who care deeply about them to pray.

The couple's pastor Joshua Light says this rural community in this deep red state is wrapping its arms around Shirley and Kenson. Kenson and Shirley came over here legally. They did not get government assistance and they have worked very hard. I do vote conservative and yet I feel like these, these blanket policies are are detrimental.

What would you say to President Trump if you could talk to him? I would ask him to see us not just as immigrant but as people. Yamiche Sendor NBC News. Our huge thanks to Yamiche for that.

And if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press on your local NBC News stations. I'll have exclusive interviews with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Senator Bernie Sanders. The news continues with Alison Barber in for Hallie Jackson right now. I'm Craig Nolf.

Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. I've always been a glass half full kind of guy, and now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way, too.

It's really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges. Their stories are fun and quite candid. So I hope you'll join me each week. Who knows, you might just come away with your own glass half full.

Search Glass Half Full with Craig Hilton From Today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast.