As the day wraps up, get this scoop on what's been happening, with Here's the Scoop, a new podcast from NBC News, with me your host, Jasmine Visukyan. We'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News' trusted journalist. It's a fresh take, a sharp, thoughtful, and informative, bringing you closer to the headlines and conversations that are shaping our world, from the front page to the zeitgeist. Here's the scoop from NBC News, listen daily on SiriusXM.
She now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage, and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook. The drink is always about the journey to the top, and this was an honest conversation about what that takes. Hope you'll listen and follow the drink wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Meet the Press Now, I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, and we are following major breaking news in the war with Iran. After an American F-15 fighter jet, we shot down by Iran today, deep inside Iranian airspace. It's believed the two pilots ejected from that aircraft, one pilot has been rescued and is alive, and is searching rescue operations underway right now for the second pilot. We're also just learning that two US military helicopters involved in the F-15 search and rescue efforts were struck by Iranian fire, but the service members are safe according to a US official.
Iran's state media released these images of what appeared to be fragments of that downed fighter jet. A regional governor in southwest Iran is calling on Iranians to try to find the missing American, promising a substantial reward. This video appearing to show a US C-130 tanker and two helicopters flying over southern Iran as the US is conducting its search and rescue operation. The White House says the president has been briefed on the incident, which marks the significant escalation in the war.
This is the first time that we know of that a US aircraft has been shot down behind enemy lines since the conflict began almost five weeks ago. Now, all of this comes after President Trump has for several weeks now been touting the success of the US military operations against Iran and claiming US dominance over Iranian airspace. Here's just some of what he said, including during his prime time address to the nation just two days ago. But in a certain sense, we've already won because we've knocked out their Navy, we've knocked out their Air Force, and we knocked out all of their communications, their telecommunications, and very importantly, we knocked out their anti-aircraft apparatus.
We are systematically dismantling the regime's ability to threaten America or project power outside of their borders. That means eliminating Iran's Navy, which is now absolutely destroyed, hurting Air Force and their missile program at levels never seen before. They have no anti-aircraft equipment. Their radar is 100% annihilated.
We are unstoppable as a military force, and the country has been eviscerated, and essentially is really no longer a threat. Earlier this week, Defense Secretary Pete Haggseth also claimed Iran's military has been significantly degraded. The upcoming days will be decisive. Iran knows that, and there's almost nothing they can militarily do about it.
Yes, they will still shoot some missiles, but we will shoot them down. This latest incident only adding to the already heightened tensions in the region, Iran now accusing the US of striking civilian infrastructure, saying eight people were killed and 95 injured in a US strike on one of Iran's largest bridges, which connects Tehran to a neighboring city. And President Trump changing his tune once again on the worst timeline and objectives, posting this morning on social media, quote, with a little more time the US can easily open the straighter for moves and take the oil. Joining me now is NBC News Senior White House correspondent, Garrett Hake, NBC News Senior Homeland Security correspondent, Courtney QB, NBC News Military Analyst, retired Arne Colonel Steve Warren, and NBC News International correspondent, Matt Bradley, who is in Tel Aviv.
And Courtney, I'm going to start with you. You have been tracking this since we first learned about it. What is the very latest appearing? So we don't have any huge developments in the last few hours anyway, and that is that the US was able to find one of the individuals who's on this downed F-15 strike evil F-15E.
An official tells us that it looks as if Iran was responsible for shooting down this aircraft the first time that we know of in this war that Iran has actually been able to down a manned aircraft inside of Iran. One of the pilots or one of the individuals, Airman on board, was rescued. The other one, there is still an extensive search and rescue effort to find that person. It is urgent.
It's dark now in Iran, and they are very concerned because Iranian officials are probably looking for the person as well. Colonel Warren, can you put all of this into perspective for us? How significant is this? Here we are five weeks into this war and Iran has shot down this F-15 fighter jet.
Sure, losing an aircraft, having an aircraft shot down is always significant emotional event for all involved. But I think some context is important. They've flown more than 13,000 sorties thus far without a plane being shot down. That in and of itself is remarkable.
Those numbers are extraordinary. Now what we have is a hundred or more American service members putting their lives at risk to bring that last pilot home. Well, we know that they are working really hard to do that. Garrett, let me go out to you at the White House.
You just spoke with President Trump by phone. What did he say to you? What's the reaction of the White House to take care of it? Well, Chris, the White House has been uncharacteristically quiet and extremely careful with their messaging around this shoot down.
President did not want to talk about the specifics of it with me at all, even asked for a portion of the conversation to be off the record. He's clearly, to some degree, frustrated at the coverage of the images and the possibility that that might make finding this surviving pilot more difficult. But on the big picture, it doesn't appear to change anything about his view of the war long term. I asked him whether the events of today would affect any negotiations that might be going on with Iran.
And he said, no, not at all. And he said, this is notable. He said, this is war. It is war.
And I think just the tone of that wasn't an excursion. It wasn't a detour. I think the seriousness of this moment is not lost on this White House, as we're in this sort of a holding pattern here, essentially, including White House, everyone desperate to find out more information about that second year. Well, you had a short conversation, Garib, but a significant one because he said that this doesn't necessarily impact negotiations.
And because he did call it a war, Matt Bradley, let me go out to you. You have been covering this in the region. What are you hearing about the reaction from Iran? Obviously, as Courtney just noted, Iranian officials are calling on people to try to locate this pilot.
Not only that, I'm offering a reward, as you mentioned, about $60,000, which doesn't sound like that very much. But they are still fanning out. We're seeing some videos of Iranians looking for these two men, one of them, of course, already captured. One of them already recovered.
One of them now entirely missing and whereabouts and status unknown. You know, this is something that we could actually see going on for the next couple of days. We know we've been hearing from experts who know about the US military and their capabilities. These pilots have been trained to survive.
But meanwhile, this really just goes to show that the Iranians are still able to punch back now five weeks into this war. We've been hearing more reports of strikes against Gulf countries like Abu Dhabi, which got another death today. Five weeks into the war, we're still seeing the Iranian striking here in Israel, not only with their ballistic missiles, but also through their proxies Hezbollah in Lebanon or the war, Israel's ground war against Hezbollah is widening. So still, after which we had just played all of those comments by Pete Hegsef, the Defense Secretary, Donald Trump himself, saying that the US now enjoys almost complete dominance and air superiority over Iran with four.
Excuse me, three now US aircraft, at least, that have been struck today. It seems that it is a very strange moment for the Trump administration if they're going to continue to say that they enjoy this dominance. As Garrett Hake has said, it sounds as though they are quieting a little bit at this moment. They're going to keep the boasting down until they can find this other soldier.
Well, I think it's a really critical point, Matt, that you make. And Courtney, let me have you pick up on this because President Trump addressed the nation this week on Wednesday. And part of his argument was the United States has established air dominance over Iran. How does the fact that Iran has just shot down this F-15 fighter jet impact those statements, those claims by President Trump doesn't undercut them?
Absolutely. It also proves that, look, the US can have air superiority over an area. But that doesn't mean that it's still not dangerous for US aircraft to fly over there, unless they want to put constant combat air patrols up over. And unless they are confident that they've taken out every single air defense system on the ground, which we know they have not.
Now, the US military has really degraded their air defense capabilities in the last month or so. They've taken out a lot of their ballistic missiles, their drones, but the threat from every single threat that Iran had when this war began, they still have. Just at a smaller scale. And what today is proving is that they still have the ability to really hold US aircraft, US troops, in harm's way, in danger if they're flying over the country.
Colonel Warren, pick up on this point. What do you make of the air defense capability that Iran may still have based on this incident in which it shot down an F-15 fighter jet? Right, air superiority, air dominance, those do not mean threat completely eliminated, right? And we don't know yet if this aircraft was shot down by one of their more sophisticated systems, part of the integrated air defense, or if it was shot down by a guy with something on his shoulder, right?
Or even just gunfire can do it. The old-fashioned 50-caliber machine gun shooting into the sky. They have those as well. So we don't know yet.
What we do know is it's a high-threat environment. This is combat. Colonel Warren, how do pilots prepare for this type of a mission, not just to conduct it, but if the worst case happens, which it did, that your aircraft is shot down and that you have to try to survive? This is such a human thing, right?
It's very human. And there's no way to fully prepare. These pilots are so well-trained that we send them to a three-week long, escape evasion, resistance, and survival school. It's a very demanding school, very, very rigorous, where they're actually captured and put through the ringer, so to speak.
They also learn to rain navigation, how to hide, how to run, how to call for help, how to survive in the wilderness. It's an exceptional school. Not very many people go through it. And when they come out of it, they're ready.
Courtney, take us inside your conversations at the Pentagon. Defense officials today. The level of concern. Obviously, they prepare for this.
And yet, this is a potentially worst case scenario. I think the thing that proves the level of concern is so high is the fact that we have not heard anything from President Trump today about this. The fact that they have been able to explain to President Trump the gravity of the situation, that there is an American behind enemy lines in direct danger right now. There is an urgent search to find this person and that anything that is said publicly could potentially put that search at risk.
And if you want to know the gravity of the president hasn't put anything on true social or spoken publicly about it today and I think that that of itself shows it. I mean, the one thing, Steve is so right about this year's school and how that is such an important capability and set of skills and knowledge that airmen have. It's not just that the U.S. in advance of a big mission, lower war.
This is a war, right? The U.S. will put forward personal recovery teams in the region really close. And they're on a constant state of readiness so that if something like this happens, they immediately deploy them to try to go and find these people.
And it's the one thing that I always imagine, Steve said this is so personal. He's right. It's a very human thing. I always wonder what are these people thinking when they're on the ground, they're hiding, they're trying to evade.
And the one thing that must give them a lot of comfort is knowing that there are highly trained comments or to rescue people who are very brave to go in and do what they're doing right now and they are doing everything they can to find them. It's extraordinary to think that they were able to rescue the one pilot who was there. Garrett, let me turn back to you. I want you to pick up on the point that Courtney is making the fact that we haven't heard from the president yet.
Garrett, you can probably count on a few fingers the number of days that we have not heard from President Trump in the second administration. What are your conversations in terms of when we might hear from him and the strategy behind what he has decided to speak out like this Wednesday, for example? Yeah, the conversations are short because there's just not much information to be had at this point and the White House knows that. I don't think they want the president out speculating on what might or might not be happening on the ground in Iran right now.
But I would never correct Courtney on anything related to military matters, but I will on a truth social because in fact the president has posted just within the last hour. Keep the oil anyone a foreword tweet about one of his favorite topics. And by the way, I do think this is related. He's been talking more about this idea in just the last couple of days.
His preference as he has stated it that the US should go up and seize this rate of hormones and take whatever oil is available to be taken from Iran. It's a position he's been espousing for 20 plus years. It's fundamental to how he views armed conflict. And I think it also, in the fact that he's sharing it in this moment, speaks to the idea that his risk tolerance may be greater than that of some of the other folks around.
And he suggested in that Easter lunch event earlier this week that he would take the oil, but he thinks the American people just want to win. The fact that he's still posting about it in this moment of peril here for US forces, I think, is indicative of the big picture way in which he sees this conflict. Yeah, and also raises questions, Garrett, about whether he is open to and strongly considering sending in US forces. Now, let me turn to you.
How are Gulf countries reacting to this moment? Are they bracing for the possibility of what could be an escalation in the wake of this? Well, I mean, the fact is when we talk about Gulf countries, there's already been an escalation as far as Gulf countries are concerned. They have not seen anything change.
The fact that an American Air Force shot down probably won't change anything for the Gulf. We've already seen them taking sustained attacks by the Iranians now for several weeks. And we just had, as I mentioned, another fatality just today in Abu Dhabi. More Gulf states reporting that they've been receiving and shooting down for the most part of Iranian projectiles.
So the situation for the Gulf is probably unlikely to change just because of this. This is going to be seen of anything as an American defeat in the Middle East. So this is probably not going to inflame Iran anymore and cause it to lash out against American allies in the region. If it does anything, it will comfort Iran and its regime.
That they have done exactly what the President Trump and Pete Hex have said they couldn't do, which is take down American planes over Iranian skies showing. American Israel do not have air dominance there. Colonel Warren, let me go back to you. There's been a lot of discussion about the Strait of Formus.
President Trump and his Wednesday night address called on other countries that use the Strait of Formus story open. Then in a post today, he said that if we have a little bit more time, the U.S. can reopen it effectively. Just how complicated is it to reopen this Strait that is so significant to the world's energies?
It's going to be a highly complicated mission to put it simply, right? We'll need ships. We'll need air power. You'll need air power over top of that Strait 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
You'll need to position ships in various locations to keep anything from the sea from coming in. And you'll probably end up having to escort friendly ships in the room. So it is going to be a time-intensive and a resource-intensive operation to try to get that Strait of Formus open. Well, in court, before we go, I do want to ask you about against the backdrop of this war.
You reported on a shake-up within the Pentagon, Secretary Haggseth, firing the top military officer at the DOD. Yeah, I mean, what's so shocking about this is exactly what we're talking about right now. The U.S. is in the middle of a war in Iran.
And so it's unorthodox for a member of the Joint Chiefs, the Army Chief of Staff to be fired in the middle of the war. The officials we spoke with said it had nothing to do with a war in Iran. We have seen that in the past. Joe were called that there have been times where the head of General McKernan, General Crystal.
They were fired when they were running the war in Afghanistan. The difference here is this appears to be because of a grudge. This is because Secretary of Defense Pete Haggseth had a grudge against General George, and he not only fired him, but two other senior generals in the U.S. military.
And this all comes against the backdrop of some new reporting that we have about how Secretary Haggseth is reaching down into the personnel lists of these general officers and flag officers, the admirals. And he seems to be almost line item taking people out who are selected for promotion or selected for a new job. And what's concerning officials about it is he seems to be focusing on women and black men and taking them off the list. So, you know, the promotion in the personnel system, depending on, is definitely not running the way that we are using it.
Well, it's a story that I know you'll continue to focus on even as you continue to report on the war. We really appreciate it. Courtney, Colonel Warren, thank you so much. Garrett, as well as Matt, really appreciate y'all starting us off today.
Coming up, former Defense Secretary Mark Esper will join us on the breaking news in Iran. The urgent search and rescue operations still underway. And what it all means for a war the President says he wants to finish in the coming weeks. Plus, we'll dig into the economic cost of this war.
Gas and oil prices continue to surge. But we also got a better than expected jobs report today. What are the implications of that? Same with us.
You're watching the press now. Let's kickstart your wellness journey with each Dr. Today at Workout's meal plans. It's your fast track to a healthier you.
And now during the XFINITY member celebration, members can get an exclusive 50% off an annual subscription. And to XFINITY.com slash membership to learn more. XFINITY, imagine that. Subscription automatically renews each year at $65.99 plus taxes and fees until cancel.
All the rans may 20th, 26th, price is subject to change. Visit today.com slash XFINITY for full on returns and details. Hey guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit Down podcast. On this week's episode, I sit down with one of the biggest bands in the world, Mumford & Sons.
As we get the boys together to talk about their new number one album, Prize Fighter. And the evolution of that irresistible foot stomping sound. You can get our conversation for free. Wherever you download your podcasts.
Stay informed with the NBC News app. Breaking news just coming in moments ago. Watch, read, and listen throughout your day. And now unlock even more with a subscription.
It's the best of NBC News with fewer ad interruptions including ad free articles, podcasts, and full NBC News shows. Plus, deeper access and exclusive content. Let's just take a step back. It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust.
Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Welcome back. We got a new jobs report today showing that hiring in March actually beat expectations even as the Iran war began escalating. The US added 178,000 jobs last month.
And the unemployment rate fell to 4.3%. But this jobs report does not capture the full brunt of the war. And it comes as the price of oil and gas continue to rise. Do you know what I mean now?
It's NBC News Business and Data Correspondent Brian Chung. Brian, thanks so much for being here with me. Appreciate it. So we are seeing elevated oil and gas prices.
Let's start right there. What's the latest on that front? Yeah. Well, the latest that we got in terms of prices that were paying at the pump $4.09 according to AAA.
By the way, that's up 37% over a full dollar since the beginning of this war. In many states, you're already seeing that getting a little bit closer to $5 like on the West Coast. But I think the real thing that we have to watch out for here is the rising cost of diesel, 5.53. That is going to impact the big rigs that transport goods all across the country.
And Chris, the base off of my sources, they've been telling you that could be the source of greater inflation because if it gets more expensive to transport food or things at your local retailer, then that could mean higher price tax for all those types of things at your store. Yeah, that ripple effect. Walk us through this latest jobs report. Beat expectations, Brian.
What are the broader implications for how the labor market is doing? Yeah, it did beat expectations, but there are a few caveats to that. As you plan on 178,000 jobs added in the month of March, that was well about expectations. Economists were only expecting to be around here, 60,000.
But they also revised down the numbers that we saw in February. The government originally reported 92,000 jobs lost in that month. They took a look at those numbers again as a standard practice and said, actually, how do we have better data? That February number was a little bit closer to 133,000 jobs lost.
So in totality, it's essentially a watch and continues this trend of ups and downs in the jobs market economists that I've been hearing from have said, this is a zero gain jobs market as it appears right now. It's a low higher, low fire environment. Companies that want to hire people, but they're also not aggressively firing people by and large. Well, Brian, speaking of highs and lows, the war in Iran is creating uncertainty.
Everyone acknowledges that. What are you watching in these coming weeks? Yeah, well, certainly with this jobs report, a natural question is, how is the war impacting the labor market? And I should point out, we didn't really see it in this report A because the survey period was in the beginning of March, really, around the early odds of this war.
But also, it's really inflation where we're going to see any of that impact again because of higher oil costs and also because of the potential for those costs that lead into higher airfares, higher food prices, higher retail costs. So again, we'll get another report on inflation next week. That could be very telling for where the war has impacted us here, state side as far as the U.S. and 20%.
Alright, Brian Chong, thank you so much. Great to see you. Coming up next, back to the breaking news in Iran as U.S. forces rush to find the fighter pilot who is still unaccounted for after an American F-15 was shot down in enemy territory.
Keep it right here. Let me depress now. Thank you. Get the best of NBC News with a subscription.
Viewer ads, deeper access and exclusive content. And now, during the XFINITY member celebration, members can get an exclusive 50% off an annual subscription. Head to XFINITY.com slash membership to learn more. XFINITY, imagine that.
Subscription automatically renews each year at $65.99 plus taxes and fees until canceled. Otter ends May 20th, 2026. Price is subject to change. Visit NBCNews.com slash XFINITY for full offer terms and details.
Welcome back and we continue to follow that breaking news out of Iran and the search and rescue mission underway after Iran shut down a U.S. fighter jet. It is a significant moment in this war. And for the White House with President Trump, now a wartime president.
Joining me now is our panel. USA Today, Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page, Chris Maher, former White House Deputy Press Secretary, and a former assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs during the Biden administration and Republican strategist Matt Gorman. Thanks to all of you for being here. We are having this conversation against the backdrop.
Susan, of a significant moment. Put this into context. Could this be an inflection point in this war? Could it change the course of this war?
It could. It is not. This is not the developments that the president signaled in his address to the nation when he said that Iran's capabilities of doing just the sort of thing they have now done had been decimated. Clearly, they've been degraded, but not decimated yet.
So it shows what the cost, the potential cost of this war beyond simply driving up gas prices. And that could be part of Trump's calculation on what the United States is willing to do in Iran next. Matt, we haven't heard from President Trump yet. Give me a reaction to that.
When do you anticipate? We might hear from him. And do you see this as a moment that could really shape the president's desire as he laid out this Wednesday to extract the United States from Iran. He said that the United States effectively was going to continue its attacks for the next two to three weeks.
He didn't give a firm timeline, but he did signal he'd like to be out by that. If he was playing a de-escalating the war, I felt like that time, Wednesday night was the time to say it really did actually give a firm thing. Because all it really did was royal the markets a little more. So I expect, honestly, even regardless of this very tense situation with a shut down plane, I expect us to escalate before it de-escalates.
Do we go into Cardio and do we escalate a bombing campaign? I thought the general in your first block, his context was actually very important around how many sorties we've actually run. And this is, it's not doesn't make scenario better. But the fact that this was the first such incident I thought was notable.
But again, I expect this to escalate and essentially really degrade this before we de-escalate. Chris, how do you see this play now? Yeah, I think on one hand, right? We've flown 10,000 sorties or something like that.
This is one of the few incidents, if not the only incident involving aircraft, even though there have been a couple more today as well, where people sounds like are safe. On the other hand, it's a reminder to the American people that we don't want to be there in the first place. The vast majority of Americans disagree with the actions that the administration has taken. They're already feeling the pain at the pump.
They've already heard about the 13 men and women who have lost their lives. Now there's a plane being shut down. It just feels like it adds to the chaos around this whole situation. Susan, pick up on that point, if you would, because if you look at the polls, as Chris is saying, this word is unpopular.
The vast majority of Americans say they don't like it, even though Republicans still largely unified behind the president on this. You see those numbers, 60% disapprove in Reuters and you go. Do you think President Trump took a step toward winning over any of those skeptics? I thought that was one of his goals of the speech.
It was the kindest we'd usually give on day one of a military action, not on day 33. But we know from the polling that he has a really hard task here. You know, there was a Reuters poll that showed that two thirds of Americans thought we should end the war, even if we didn't reach all our goals. And that included 40% of Republicans.
It shows the kind of appetite that Americans have to do whatever we're going to do and to get out. Matt, I want to play a little bit of Joe Rogan's podcast with Theo Vaughn, extremely popular with the MAGA base. They were discussing the word this week. Take a look.
What do you think is going to happen? You think we're going to be okay? I hope so. Of course.
I don't know. Do you think about it? I'm confused. I can't believe we went to this war.
When we started bombing Iran, I was like, this can't be true. What about Lebanon now? I know. I don't think they're going to drive either the White House is thinking on this or even to some extent, the MAGA base on this.
If you were asking a month ago, I would have said this was driven the kind of the tension in the base. It was driven by a lack of a term that is real haters, right? It was Tucker Carlson and the people where they're trying to get another agenda here. There is more skepticism in the base, especially when it comes to the funding.
We've seen some numbers put out today and throughout the week 200 billion, 1.5 trillion of what the defense costs will be for the war and then also going forward. I will say this. I think in some respects, the polls could be freeing to him. Because look, if you are already out of Nadir, essentially, just keep going and actually end this once and for all because you're not going to get 50% to support this war.
There's also the theory that if you dug a hole, you're in a whole stop. I would say this though. I would say this. If you pull out without achieving the goals, the problem will fester.
Like there will be, again, whatever happens to Ron. I think what you saw in that video is supporters of Donald Trump who heard him say, we're going to end the war on Ukraine on day one. We're going to bring down costs on day one. We're going to get out of these forever wars right away.
Instead, we're still, Ukraine, we're still going on. Prices are going up and we're getting deeper, more deeply involved in the Middle East and Venezuela, potentially with Cuba. He's doing the exact opposite of everything he promised on the campaign. Look, I think that is a challenge.
I think that's why they need to store in affordability and you saw good jobs report today, but they need to keep telling that story. The more we get in Iran, even though it's worthy, can take away from that. All right, fantastic conversation. Please stick around.
We have a lot more. But right now, I do want to bring in former Secretary of Defense during President Trump's first term, Mark Esper, Secretary Esper. Thank you so much for joining me on this really critical day. I want to start off by getting your reaction to the fact that Iran was able to shoot down a US F-15 fighter jet.
What are the implications for that, not just in terms of Iran's air defense capabilities, but also in terms of the broader war? Well, first of all, good day with you, Kristen. Look, I'm glad to see that, of course, we rescued the pilot. That's great news.
But of course, we have now the other officers out there somewhere. We assume hiding, trying to escape an evade from Iranian guards who are trying to chase him or her down and capture him. Obviously, it's significant that an American aircraft was shot down in light of what the president said the other night with regard to how devastated or whatever other verb he used to describe their air defenses. They have some capability still, and not just with air defense, but with ballistic missiles and drones and other things that we've heard about here in the last 24, 48 hours.
So, of course, our thoughts and prayers with this airman who's out there. And it's very important we find that pilot and we treat them because obviously if the Iranians get that person, it could be a significant political chip in this conflict. Absolutely, everyone, I think it's safe to say, hoping, praying for that pilot's safe return. Mr.
Secretary, what are the implications of this moment for the trajectory of this war? President Trump, when he spoke on Wednesday, signaled that he wanted to wind this war down in a matter of weeks, could this moment complicate that timeline? Probably so. It becomes, again, if this airman is captured and taken hostage, it adds another wrinkle to the negotiation that has to be worked out.
And of course, we don't know which way this is going to play more broadly. You know, you often think about famous Somalia Mogadishu with Black Hawk Down, where the dining of an American aircraft there changed the nature of the battle on the ground. The question is, will this change the nature of the war between the US, Israel, and Iran? It's hard to say.
It could not have as much impact. Only time is going to tell with regard to whether we get the airman back or not. If the Iranians do, then how do they manage that hostage? Do they take the personal hostage?
How do they treat them? Do they parade them out there politically to mock the United States? And lots are going to depend on how they treat that individual also. Secretary Esper, take us inside your understanding.
You have served with President Trump during his first administration. What are the conversations that you anticipate are unfolding right now? Do you think that there is significant discussion about a potential retaliation? I would assume I would hope right now that every level of the chain of command from the President on down to the unit, that these officers are focused on rescuing that remaining airman and I assume that that is the focus.
100% finding that person, getting them, rescuing them, and recovering them as quickly as possible before the Iranians get their arms around them. So, to me, that should be the focus right now. Everything else can be sorted out later with regard to retaliation or whatever else you want to do. But right now, recovering that individual is the key thing.
And your understanding of the extent to which and the way in which these pilots are trained for this very moment when the worst happens, this pilot is still alive undoubtedly fighting for their life? Yes, they all go through a series training, survival, evasion, resistance, and escape training. And it's a very demanding, extensive training course built for just these situations. And so right now they're in the survival and the evade mode trying to stay away from the Iranians and of course they have on them the ability to communicate and defend themselves, but really communicate with higher headquarters to signal their location and arrange the pickup as that moment approaches.
So, right now that is the focus I'm sure that individual on the ground is get to a safe space, safe space somewhere where they won't be found. If they could be found, maybe they can defend themselves, but really wait them out. It's darkness now in Iran. So, that helps in many ways the recovery of this down palette and for us to get to that palette sooner rather later.
And as we're having this conversation, Secretary Esper, I was just handed a little bit more information about what has unfolded today. This comes to us according to our team, including Courtney QB, who reports in total Iran has caused two military aircraft to crash the F-15 and an A-10 and two Black Hawk helicopters in a single day, less than 48 hours after President Trump said in his prime time address that Iran has been completely decimated. Again, one of the pilots, the one in the initial F-15 that was hit has been rescued, is alive. They continue to search for the second one.
Big picture, Mr. Secretary, President Trump has said he thinks that Iran wants to make a deal. Does this moment, could this moment complicate any diplomatic negotiations if there are any, in fact, happening? That's two things, first of all.
The United States military has clearly made great progress in terms of achieving its objectives. And chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan Kane has laid him out with regard to degrading the Navy, degrading the Air Force, going after the ballistic missile's drones production capabilities and talking about the nuclear infrastructure, although it's something we've heard a lot less of this time around. And certainly over the last few weeks, as Iran continues to launch, a couple dozen ballistic missiles and several dozen drones each day toward Israel and the Arab partners, is that they still have capability and not just capability, still have a willingness to fight. And so what that tells me now, zooming out to the second question you've asked, Kristen, is I believe regime feels emboldened and that they're not going to roll over any time soon.
They seem to have suppressed the people well enough that they're not afraid of any uprising, and there doesn't appear to be any fractures within the government itself or the IRGC. We had, of course, the DNI say this just a couple weeks ago, we can have to go on Capitol Hill. So in my mind, they feel strongly, they feel emboldened, that they've taken the brunt of American Israeli tax. And I just assume that the shoot out of American aircraft today will embolden them further.
I hope I'm wrong because it's very important that we gain the upper hand here, retain the upper hand, and achieve all of our objectives. And again, we're as a contest of wills. And the question is, who will hold out the longest? Well, you take me to my next question because if you listen to the President's address to the nation this Wednesday, one aspect of this that he did not speak to specifically was whether or not he plans to put US forces on the ground inside Iran.
Do you think this moment will make it more likely? Because we know that he's mobilized tens of thousands of US troops in the region. Does this increase the chances that he may in fact send US forces into Iran? I think it's too early to say, Kristin.
Look, I think the President's right by not taking that option off the table. And I think he's right by deploying forces to the region to give him options. I think that's the duty, I saw my duty to give the President as many options as possible. I think the time to tell will be April 6th, which is the deadline he gave for the Iranians, either come back and agree to his demands.
That's option one or the number two he may extend the deadline, or three, maybe he just declares victory and pulls US forces on the region. But three, April 6th, this upcoming Monday will be the date by which we have a little bit more clarity on which path he chooses. Secretary Esper, we really appreciate your insights today. Thank you so much for being here.
Thanks, Kristin. Coming up next, the very latest installment of our Common Ground Series, the Co-Chairs of the Problem Solvers Caucus speak out on their efforts to try to solve the biggest problem plaguing Capitol Hill right now. That's the longest partial government shutdown in US history. That's next.
I'll meet the press now. Welcome back, turning now to the still ongoing shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security. House Speaker Mike Johnson says he has no plans to bring back his members early from recess to pass a DHS funding bill sent over by the Senate. That plan would fund all of DHS except for ICE and Border Patrol, which Republican leaders say they would try to fund through a reconciliation process meeting only with Republican votes at a later date.
In the latest installment of our Common Ground Series, I spoke earlier this week to the bipartisan co-chairs of the House Problem Solvers Caucus, who've been working on a proposal to break the DHS gridlock, Democrat Tom Swazzy of New York, and Republican Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania tell me they would both vote for the Senate's bill to fund DHS, but that if that fails to address reforms to immigration and customs enforcement, something they say their proposal solves. Here's our conversation. Congressman Swazzy, talk to us about your proposal. Why you think the Problem Solvers proposal is actually better than the other options that have been presented so far?
And then, Congressman Fitzpatrick, I'll get your perspective. You know, right now it's Brian in my proposal. We haven't gotten the full endorsement of the Problem Solvers yet, but the bottom line is that we should fund the government and we should do the things that make ICE the same as other federal law enforcement agencies like the FBI, the DEA, and the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Bureau. And that involves things like body cameras, like not wearing masks, but protecting officers, law enforcement, from doxing, cooperating with state and local governments when you investigate use of force, proper training, even local police, but certainly federal law enforcement agencies have six months of training.
ICE has 47 days of training, and other Brian speaking to it is a former FBI agent for 15 years, but I also was the county executive of Nassau County. I oversaw the 12th largest police department in the United States of America. There are certain things that every law enforcement agency in America does, I should be held to that same standard. All right.
Well, Congressman Fitzpatrick, your perspective. Why do you think this is the right path to take? Yeah, well, we have to get to the basics, back to the basics of what law enforcement is. Law enforcement is a social contract.
It is a delegation of the power that resides with the people, as all power does in this country, and they delegate that to law enforcement, law enforcement institutions, agencies, and law enforcement officers. And any time that social contract is frayed, if there's not mutual trust, mutual respect, mutual cooperation, then we have to fix that social contract. And certainly, following the tragedies in Minneapolis, that social contract has been frayed. So we have to work to fix it.
What do we do to fix it? To Tom's point, we start with simplicity. Every single federal law enforcement agency auto comports to the same standards. When it comes to body cameras, when it comes to training, when it comes to independent investigations of any use of force by federal agents, when it comes to removing a mask, when it comes to penalizing doxing and exchange for the removal of masks, obviously, there's exceptions for those rules.
All of that should be standardized. And I was an agent for 15 years. I never once wore a mask when executing the hundreds of search warrants and arrest warrants that I executed. Now, there are exceptional cases if you're going after cartels or something like that.
But the baseline rule has to be no masks, because masks are a barrier between the police and the public. And policing is a mutual social contract. And we can't have barriers like that. Well, Congressman Spassy, let me have you pick up on that point.
Because the White House did offer up some areas where they were willing to negotiate body cameras, for example. Now look, their proposal did not include barring ICE agents wearing masks. But do you think your Senate Democratic colleagues made a mistake by not engaging on those initial points and then trying to get more down the line? Well, I said, I don't want to second guess what they did in the Senate.
They were trying to do their negotiations. I think we as an institution, both the Senate and the House have failed to try and find some common ground to try and move forward. Like we have with so many other issues. I think the people are second tired of what's going on in Washington, D.C.
They're sitting at home. They're like, what are you doing to affect my life in a positive way? And they see costs going up through the roof. They see the stuff on television.
We saw the lines of the airports getting a little bit better right now. We see all these different things. We need the members of Congress and the Senate and the Democrats and the Republicans to get together to actually do our jobs to actually solve the problems that affect real people's lives. Well, Congressman Spassy, let me ask you because you announced this effort to find a bipartisan solution before we saw that breakdown in negotiations on Friday.
Do you have any concerns that your proposal doesn't actually match where your party is right now in terms of what it's willing to negotiate on? And that's where the people are at. And that's all I care about. Tom and I both represent roughly 800,000 people.
They are our bosses. We don't report to any person, any party in Washington, D.C. So I would think the party would follow. The both parties would follow what Tom and I are doing.
By the way, to this point, we are the only proposal that actually reforms ICE. This whole thing was supposed to be about reforming ICE, post the tragedies in Minneapolis. And yet not the Democrat discharge that's at the desk of the House Clerk, not the Republican bill that was before the House, not the bipartisan bill that was before the Senate, not a single one of them have a single ICE reform. And I think people just got caught up in the fog of war and they forgot what this was all supposed to be about, which is fully funding our government and fixing that social contract that currently is frayed between immigration and customs enforcement and the public.
So I have to ask both of you, do you believe that both parties bear some blame in what is now the longest partial government shutdown in U.S. history? Congressman Spassy, let me start with you. Absolutely.
I mean, there's enough blame to go around for everybody. We need people to be working together more to get things done to try and solve the problems that we face. And as Brian said, what we saw out in Minneapolis was probably illegal, but certainly immoral and is a breakdown in the relationship between the public and law enforcement. And we have an obligation as elected officials to try and fix that and not let this continue where the administration can just do whatever they want and there's no response from Congress.
So I'm going to give a little bit. Brian's going to give a little bit. I think a lot of members of Congress want this. I think they all want something done.
It's just that there are so many systemic problems in toxicity in Washington, D.C. right now that even good people that want to get the right thing done are not stepping up to find compromise. And that's what we need to be doing. Congressman Fitzpatrick, what say you to that question?
Does everyone bear some responsibility for what is now the longest partial government shutdown in U.S. history? Absolutely. The literal definition of governing in a democracy requires building consensus.
That's how it's defined. And yet we have a lot of people in both chambers, from both parties, quite frankly, who are not trying to see the world through the other person's eyes, who are not approaching problems with humility and empathy, and trying to find common ground. Instead, they're taking a my way or the highway approach. That's not governing.
And that's not a democracy. And that's certainly not consensus building. That approach doesn't work in our personal relationships. It doesn't work in our homes.
It doesn't work in our businesses. And it sure doesn't work in government. So that's what Tom and I believe in. We believe in consensus building.
You know, he and I, you know, approach problems from different angles, but we respect each other as human beings. We try to see the world through the other person's perspective, and we try to find the points of intersection where we can agree. That's what governing is supposed to be about. I want to ask both of you about, please go ahead, Congressman Swasi.
Look at the one of the factors that are dividing us in our country right now. Too many elected officials in these safe seats are just pandering to their base. The Republicans in the far right, the Democrats in the far left. Social media is rewarding extremism.
A lot of the cable news shows are just feeding one side of the story. And our foreign adversaries are trying to promote division amongst us by using our social media to promote divisive messages, saying one message to this group and another message to that group just to get us to all hate each other. We have to rise above the systemic problems and start figuring out how to actually serve the people. And I do have one final question for both of you.
What is your message to Americans who are frustrated with what they believe is congressional in action across all of these issues that we are discussing in both chambers, which are in recess right now. Congressman Fitzpatrick, let me let you take that one first. Yes, they should ask their member of Congress who represents them and their United States Senator who represents their state, whether they are members of the problem. And if they're not encouraged them to join, and if they refuse to join, ask them why that is the case, because, like I said, governing in a democracy is all about building consensus.
Our group is the only two-party group in Congress. You have a continuum of caucuses within Congress. We're the only ones where Democrats and Republicans meet every single week when we're in Washington DC to try to see the world through the other person's eyes. We're the only ones who travel together.
We build relationships with each other's families. That's what's important, now more than ever. So that would be my request to every citizen in this country. Congressman Swati, final word to you.
If I was speaking directly to the American people, I'd say don't underestimate how powerful you are. Right now, so many people are not participating in primary elections. So many people are not participating in general elections. We need you.
Our democracy will only work if the public is involved to the extent that we need them. If it's just the far left and the far right and they're controlling the conversation and they're putting in all the energy and the big block of 50% of the public is somewhere in the middle is saying, the whole thing stinks. I don't like it. I'm politically disenchanted.
I don't like it. Then we end up with this gridlock that we have. We need to hold the elected officials accountable. The only people can do it is the people.
All right. Congressman Tom Swati and Brian Fitzpatrick, thanks to both of you for your time and for a great conversation. We really appreciate it. Thank you.
All right. We do want to turn back now to the breaking news on the war with Iran and recap what we've just learned that in total, Iran has hit four US aircraft today, first that F-15 fighter jet that was shot down and then three aircraft that were involved in the search and rescue efforts. One of those was an A-10 Thunderbolt. That pilot was able to make it to Kuwaiti airspace and ejected safely before the aircraft crashed.
So Iran has caused two US military aircraft to crash today. Back with me now is the panel, Susan Page, Chris Maher and Matt Gorman. Thank you all for sticking around, Susan, your reaction to this and what it means and the implications for President Trump's claim that they have destabilized Iranian defense aircraft. Yes.
According to the president, they didn't have the capabilities to cause a crash of two aircraft in one day. This is a really sobering development. And I think it increases the possibility that he will be President Trump will feel the need to retaliate. And that could be an escalation of this war, even though we know from his speech on Wednesday night he would like to bring it to a close.
Matt, how is he going to square that if he does feel compelled to retaliate in this moment? It makes it a lot tougher to try to withdraw US forces within two to three weeks. Certainly, and that could be the pretext for staying longer. And of course, we don't know what happens with the SIRS member who is missing.
Is there some sort of actually on the ground rescue operation? I remember back in the early days of Iraq, we had Jessica Lynch, we had to actually go on the ground and rescue her in April 2003, those early days of that war. Again, I think this will be a pretext probably to escalate. I don't think he was heading there that this way anyway.
I think this really cements it. Chris, I thought it was notable that Secretary Esper said he believes this is a moment where Iran feels emboldened. What are the implications of that? Having served in the Biden administration, you dealt with Iran, obviously.
Yeah, and they're proxy groups, which still have capabilities as well. You know, we're talking about an F-15, which is not a commercial airliner. This is a very capable jet goes 1,500 miles an hour. You know, it is hard to take down.
And I think Iran is proving a point today by taking down this aircraft that they're not done yet. Same goes with the Strait of Hormuz. It's easy to talk about. Oh, we're just going to reopen it.
The rhetoric that you hear from the Trump administration is like, we just snap our fingers and we get this stuff done. Iran showed today. It's not going to be quite that easy. So it's up to Donald Trump to decide what's next.
At this moment, why should Iran negotiate? Why should Iran make compromises to the United States when it's feeling that it's done this remarkable thing today? And yet, Matt, President Trump has said Iran wants to negotiate Iranian officials have said, Hey, wait a minute. There are no direction negotiations.
Do you think this moment undercuts any hopes, as Susan saying, for the possibility of a negotiated settlement? At the risk of being reductive, you can't sell your way out of this. You have to fight your way out of this, essentially. That's what the actual end goal is.
And again, I think Trump has outlined what his goals are. It's degrading the Iranian nuclear capability, of course. And if that's the case, you can't sell really even cut a deal. If it rains, not only do that, then you have to escalate.
Again, even before the speech, but again, certainly in light of this, it seems like all signs point to that. One of the big questions, Chris, is will President Trump send US forces into Iran? You heard the Defense Secretary say it's an outstanding question still. Is that when you think Democrats would move to try to?
They've tried to block this war already, but is there anything the Democrats or Congress could do at that moment? Members of Congress on the Hill have not shown much of a backbone yet. There's limited capabilities for Democratic members of Congress other than the microphone. I hope that they would speak out loud and clear here.
If Donald Trump puts boots on the ground, puts those troops who are already in harm's way by even being deployed to the Middle East in the first place. If he puts them on the ground in Iran, that is going to be a political game changer back here domestically in a bad way for Donald Trump. All right, guys. Thank you for a great conversation on a very significant day, Susan Chris, and that will really appreciate it.
Thank you. We will be back Monday with more Meet the Press now. And if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press on your local NBC News station. I'll have exclusive interviews with Senator Tim Kaine, Congressman Mike Lawler, and Congressman Ro Khanna.
There's much more ahead on NBC News now. I'm Craig Malef, cheers. Cheers. I've always been a glass half-hole kind of guy.
And now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way too. Some really fascinating folks who shared their defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges, their stories are funny, and if I can't, so I hope you'll join me each week. And who knows? You might just come away with your own glass half-hole.
Search Glass Outfall with Craig Malefoot from today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast.