Foreign. Welker in Washington, where we're following the fallout from another awful day on Wall street as stocks plunged for a second straight trading session with the president doing little to come. Investors as analysts at America's largest bank warned of a global recession. And Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell cautioned that the president's sweeping of tariffs will likely push prices higher and growth lower.
The Dow plunged more than 2,000 points. It's fallen roughly 9% over the last two days. American companies and s and P500 fell roughly 5% today. The index has fallen more than 10% in the last two days, wiping out more than $4 trillion in value for those companies.
And the tech heavy NASDAQ index fell nearly 6% today. It's now in bear market territory, falling more than 20% in recent weeks. All of it comes as the world's second largest economy. China announced overnight that it would impose a 34% retaliatory tariff on US imports.
And JP Morgan raised the odds of a global recession to 60%, up from 40%. Meanwhile, after failing to call markets yesterday by saying they are going to boom, the president again today signaled that his tariffs were negotiable, even as White House officials are saying precisely the opposite, that this is not a negotiation. Also today, Mr. Trump stepped up pressure on the Federal Reserve to inject more money into the economy by cutting interest rates.
That pressure from the president came just moments before Fed Chair Jerome Powell warned while speaking to business reporters that the administration's policies have put the health of the US Economy at risk. Higher tariffs will be working their way through our economy and are likely to raise inflation in coming quarters. While uncertainty remains elevated, it is now becoming clear that tariff increases will be significantly larger than expected and the same is likely to be true of economic effects, which will include higher inflation and slower growth. The size and duration of these effects remains uncertain.
Joining now NBC News White House correspondent Amy Shal Senor and NBC News business and data correspondent Brian Chung and CNBC senior economics reporter Steve Leisman will join us in just a moment. Yamiche, I want to start with you. What is the reaction inside the administration to another brutal day on Wall Street? Well, it's really interesting, Kristen, because of course, as we know, the president did say what was running for president running for reelection, that he was going to put in terrorists.
He wanted these at other countries to pay what they owe to the United States. And there has been this messaging from the president that these tariffs are negotiating or negotiable. Rather, though the White House and in talking points that the NBC News obtained said that this was not actually a negotiation. These tariffs were not doing that.
But the president saying he's talking to countries, including Vietnamese, Vietnam. That being said, it's interesting online, the president was almost hinting that this is sort of what he wanted to happen, even though it's hard to see that this would be what he would have happen. He reposted online a post that said something to the effect of President Trump is playing playing chess as others are playing checkers. And it had some illustrations of the market numbers and showing sort of all the different things that are going on with the Dow plummeting and otherwise.
That being said, you have Americans who are in the middle of this and there is a split screen happening. We have, of course, the market's going down. You have Americans worried about recession, people talking about how the cost of living is going up. And then you have President Trump at his golf course meeting with allies but posting about golfing.
But the president doesn't seem to think that's gonna hurt him at all. And again, there are some voters who are saying they understand that despite some short term pain for long term gains, which is what the president has also been saying. But really interesting to see the president try to flip this and say, well, maybe this is part of what I wanted. This is part of my grand plan here.
Kristen. Yeah, the president's saying this is akin to an operation on a sick nation, the US Economy being the patient. That takes me to my next question. That includes short term pain and the type of pain that you're talking about.
But what is the administration saying about just how long it anticipates this pain is going to last for Americans? Well, Chris, that is the key question, right? How long is it going to be that we're going to see them, the Dow dropping in the way that how long are we going to see the president and the Fed chair Drumhow going back and forth with the Fed chair saying that he believes these tariffs are going to increase inflation and also possibly slow the US Economy. It's not clear from what I've been talking to White House officials or when the president has been speaking to reporters all week, whether or not he really has a timeline for this.
All he's been saying is that Americans are going to have to bear with him, there's going to be some pain and hopefully this will be better for America. On the other side, he's been saying that these tariffs long term are going to make America richer, even though economists have said that this is really like a tax on the American people. And this is in fact going to make a number of things go up higher, including appliances, cars, all sorts of things. I mean, again, Americans wanting to know how long this is going to last, we just simply don't know, Kristen.
Yeah, you should. Is there any discussion about a strategy for explaining this in a more thorough way to the American people? Is, for example, President Trump planning to hit the road to take his message about terrorists all across the country? What's really interesting because we did have that story that was about President Trump and his reluctance to travel because in the first term, White House officials told me, some of our colleagues, that the president felt like he had to be out there in the country holding rallies.
We covered some of them together. When you were White House correspondent here at the White House, when we were talking about folks, talking to folks who said they like seeing the president on the road. But this is the second term the president is feeling more comfortable with being at the White House or being in Florida golfing, which ladies done time and time again on most weekends here. The president is not in right now saying that there's going to be a big strategy to go out into the country to talk to people.
But I think as maybe we see the markets continuing to go down, as we see even Republicans on Capitol Hill pushing back in some ways on these tears, we might have a strategy from the president going out into the country. But right now what we're seeing is online posts and the president sort of feeling at ease with the idea that Americans are going to stick with him for now. Thank you so much for your reporting from the White House. Steve, let me head over to you before I go to Brian, put these two days into context for us.
I mean, the numbers we are seeing at the closing bell, just staggering. The fact that all of the indices lost close to 5%. Can you put that in historic context for people? Well, it's obviously the worst sell off we've had since the pandemic, which came back very quickly.
This two day sequence here was troubling. And I go back, Christian, as we talked about this yesterday, there was an attempt at a rally yesterday. That rally failed, which means that people tried to go in and buy that dip and couldn't another attempt at a rally today. People tried to go in, try to find some confidence.
Maybe we priced this in already. No, it went further down. We closed at or near the lows of the day, not just from a technical point of view, but from a psychological point of view. That's not good News we're trying to find the bottom here from a practical point of view.
What's happening, this attempt to price in these tariffs and what does it mean? Who's going to be affected by how much? Who's going to be affected by the companies that are affected? How much will consumers be affected?
JP Morgan put a 60 chance of a recession on today. Now when that happens, earnings of corporations, they can fall pretty sharply. Should you price in a recession or should you just price in, you know, part of the way there? Finally, this issue of the mercurial way that Donald Trump does policy.
You could have some of these things go away tomorrow or not. We heard very, very, what's the right word? Contradictory guidance from the White House yesterday. We have Peter Navarro, one of his trade counselors on our air.
He said no negotiation. Donald Trump on Air Force One said we're willing to negotiate. And then he said this morning in a tweet, my policies are not going to change. So markets don't know what to think.
I think they're finally getting serious about the idea. These tariffs are here, they're here to stay. And according to the stock market, they're one of the most colossal economic mistakes that perhaps I've ever made. Well, against that backdrop, we heard from Fed Chair Jerome Powell today who had some really stunning remarks and talked about the fact that these tariffs were more sweeping than anticipated.
He said that the US should brace for increased inflation potentially and lower growth. Were you surprised by the tone that the Fed chair took? I think the Fed chair has tried to stay out of this fight for as long as he could. I felt like he no longer could.
What happened on Thursday, as you know, Christian, was these tires came in much more extreme than the market anticipated, I believe much more stream than the Federal Reserve had penciled into its models. And he was now in a place where he had to say, okay, folks, now we know these are larger, which means the economic effects will be larger than we thought. This puts the Federal Reserve in a very difficult position. Remember the Fed's job to keep unemployment rate low, keep inflation low.
Well, what are tariffs doing? They're likely to increase unemployment and increase inflation. It is rare to have both these things, we call them stagflation in the economics business to have both these things happening at once because the Fed can't address it. To what the Fed chair said today, which by the way, I think was part of the additional sell off, is we can't do anything here.
We can't address the weakness in the economy while we face inflation. And then he said very firmly, we are going to address inflation. We're going to make sure that an initial round of price hikes that come from tariffs do not become a second round of price hikes like we had from the pandemic. So that kind of firm talks to the market.
The Fed can't come to the rescue. Donald Trump is dolphin and the Republicans in Congress aren't doing anything about these tariffs. We're without a net here. And yet President Trump seems to think the Fed chair can take some actions.
He posted on Truth Social calling on the Fed chair to lower interest rates. What do you make of that and what do you think the Fed will do in the wake of what we've seen? Well, let me tell you, Kristen, eight years ago or so, when Donald Trump first was in office, we would have been, that would have been the lead of our story, that the president of the United States had told the Fed chair to lower interest rates. That never happened in the post Trump world or the Trump 2.0 world.
It's not really big news. Right, because the president has spoken this before. He has jawboned the Fed chair in the past. And so we also see, by the way, that the Fed chair for the moment is ignoring the president, as many monetary policy experts believe he should right now.
Now, that said, if there are obvious weaknesses in the economy, if these jobs numbers turn down to zero or negative, if consumption, if consumer spending goes zero negative, I believe the Fed will act. But it's going to be very difficult for them to act when you're bracing for a rise in prices directly due to tariff inflation. All right, Steve Leisman, it has been an extraordinary two days for you and reporting. Thank you for bringing it all to us.
We really appreciate it. Brian Chung, I want to head over to you. Let's talk about the practical impacts of these tariffs. I know you've been tracking that part of this story.
What products do you anticipate Americans should expect to see the biggest price increases on? Juan Christian, given the fact that the United States is such a major importer of things from countries around the world, it could really be everything. And we talk about the types of categories that come to mind. First, you think about, of course, the things that we import from China, given that they're the world's second largest economy and they are currently a major trading partner with the United States in categories like clothing, where you have some major producers that produce in factories in China, as well as things like electronics, where you have warnings from the likes of the consumer technology association at laptops and smartphones could get as much as $200 to $300 more expensive per unit.
With the types of tariff rates that are now going to be in effect come next week, which would be 54% dishwashers. Those are things that will likely get more expensive not necessarily because of just the reciprocal quote, unquote tariffs themselves, but also because of the steel and aluminum tariffs that were announced just a few weeks ago. And there's of course produce things like avocados, tomatoes that we get from countries like Mexico, which are now subject to a 25% tariff that can get more expensive as well. So again, these are major household consumption products that people will buy regularly on a regular basis with big name brands like Apple and Nike and what have you.
These are the types of companies in price that consumers likely expect to see price increases. And I think Brian, folks are watching this and wondering what's the timeframe for all of this? Will prices start to go up tomorrow when they go out to the grocery store or will it take a couple of months to set in? What type of timeframe should people be bracing for?
Well, let's talk about the theory of it because the tariffs, when it comes to those one, reciprocal tariffs that announced earlier this week, that 10% baseline will take effect tomorrow and then the reciprocal tariffs will take effect next Wednesday. So in theory, it could be as soon as tomorrow or next Wednesday, depending on what country. It's if an item is waiting off of the shores of, let's say the Port of Los Angeles, if it does get onboarded onto a truck, let's say for example, on a Thursday morning next week, it could be right then that the price would get more expensive. But for other products, not necessarily the case.
Why? Example being automotives, when I talked to some dealers earlier on this week, they were telling me that they can sell through the inventory. They have a lot already because those were not tariff when they purchased them and put them on the lot. So it could be maybe a few weeks before those tariffs start to bite.
But they're saying it's really matter of weeks, not necessarily months for those price increases, which could be the thousands for those vehicles take effect. All right, Brian Chung, thank you so much as always for your insights. I'm joined now by Mark Zani, chief economist at Moody's Analytics. Mark, thank you so much for joining me.
We really appreciate it. Let's dive right in. Look, JP Morgan analysts among those today signaling that they now assess the risk of a global recession is increased. JP Morgan saying it's at 60%.
Do you agree with that assessment? Yeah, I wouldn't argue with that, Christine. I mean, I think that's what the stock market is telling us. It's a lot of red and it's going to wipe out a lot of wealth.
I mean, by my simple calculation, we've lost $4 trillion in wealth. That's what U.S. households own. Their stockholdings are now worth $4 trillion less than they were when the market peaked back five, six, seven weeks ago.
It's all because of the trade war and the higher tariffs and that's going to do damage. You know, 60% of Americans own stock and you know they're going to be more anxious than they should be. I think they're more cautious. And you know, the consumer, American consumers keep to driving the American economy and the global economy.
And if that consumer turns more cautious, I think the economy's at risk. And recession risks are very higher. 60%. Yeah, that sounds about right.
I'll say one last thing. You know, the president could take an off ramp here and turn things around pretty quickly. I mean, he's good at pivoting, declaring victory, moving on. Did that in his first term with that trade war.
So it's possible. I'm hoping for that. But with each passing day, that looks less likely and recession looks more likely. And Mark, quickly just follow up on that pivoting.
Taking an off ramp would look like saying, hey, I've reached some negotiations and some deals with some of these biggest countries. I got a deal. That's why they go back to his first term. The war was with primarily China, some kind of trade deal.
At the end of the day, it didn't change anything of consequence of trade downs, which China still is saying nothing really changed. But we could do the same thing here, get off this trade war. And if they do, the markets will find a fleeting rally because it came into the year with an exceptionally strong economy. You know, low unemployment, everything was going right.
So the economy, the reason why we're having this trouble is because of bad policy. And of course, China, speaking of which, announced overnight it's issuing 34% retaliatory tariffs on goods from the US help people to understand, Mark, what is the overall impact of that going to be on the US and also global economies? Well, it's going to cost jobs, right? I mean, 3, 4%.
That's a big deal. That's a really big increase. And they're not buying stuff. You know, the farmers are going to get hit first.
They're focused on Soybeans and corn and chicken and they're going to get crushed. And you know, for machinery, chips, pharmaceuticals, medical instrumentation, you know, the list is on and on. So, you know, instead of tariffs leading to more jobs, and obviously, you know, that's the state goal, this is going to result in less jobs, fewer jobs. And again, just go back to the first term and look at that trade war.
Manufacturing jobs fell during the trade war, so less companies invested less in the United States. You know, tariffs like this, the scale, these tariffs are just extraordinary. You know, it's going to tremendous damage. I can't see a CEO of a major global manufacturer from studying, look at the United States.
Why wouldn't they? I mean, they don't want the tariffs to be tomorrow, let alone three years from now when the factory opens or 10 years from now when they're still producing at that factor. So if you don't know what the tariffs are going to be when they're this large, how can you possibly make a big investment? I just don't see it.
So I think this is costing jobs, not creating jobs. Finally, let me ask you about what President Trump posted today directed at Fed Chair Jerome Powell. He said this would be a perfect time for Fed Chair Jerome Powell to cut interest rates. He is always late, but he could now change his image and quickly.
What do you make of that? The pressure against Jerome Powell. Do you think that the Fed should cut rates? Oh, goodness gracious, my gosh.
I mean, you know, a bedrock foundational aspect of the US Economy, of any economy, is an independent Federal Reserve or an independent central bank that can make decisions about what interest rate should be based on what's going on in the economy, not based on politics. And that's what this Fed has done. It's built into their DNA and to. We've got to preserve that.
We've got to. It's not just about reality, it's a perception of it. If people lose faith that the Federal Reserve is independent because of comments such as these, then, you know, we're shaking that bedrock. So, you know, hopefully, you know, the Federal Reserve, I think the Federal Reserve, you know, Chair Powell is as bad, as good as they come.
He's going to do the right thing. But one of the point here, what is, what is the right thing? This is the problem with terrorists when it comes to interest rates. You know, it raises inflation, no doubt about it.
What are you doing? You raise rates or it slows growth. What are you doing? You cut rates.
So which one do you do? I don't know, you got to wait and see. And that's what he's doing and that's the right policy. Mark, Sandy, it is always so good to have your insights and your expertise.
Thank you so much for joining us. I anticipate we'll be talking to you quite a bit in the coming days and weeks. Thank you for joining us on this Friday. Coming up, not backing down.
We are tracking the international economic fallout as fears of a global recession rise and China announces retaliatory tariffs on the U.S. the first NBC News caught up with folks down by Wall street this morning before the markets open to their reaction to the president's sweeping tariffs and how they're feeling about the state of the U.S. economy. Take a listen.
If you could describe how you're feeling about the economic and geopolitical financial situation right now in one word, what would that word be? Terrified. Anxious. Worry.
All I know is that the economy's not doing too well. My stocks are doing too well. So I don't feel good about it. Vulnerable people were always unsafe and now they're made even more vulnerable.
I'm not making any big moves, just kind of wait to see how plays out. But it's certainly a little disconcerting. Investors never really understood the depth of his words. Perhaps even he did it.
Welcome back. In the latest escalation of what could be an all out US China trade where Beijing is sitting back with its own countermeasures, including retaliatory tariffs of their own. Earlier today, President Trump posted on Truth Social quote, china played it wrong. They panicked.
The one thing they cannot afford to do. But the president also signals to new patience with Beijing granting Chinese owned TikTok an extension of its deadline to find a U.S. buyer. The counter strike puts a potential summit between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping into jeopardy.
Meeting President Trump has said he's open to NBC News international correspondent Janice Matthew Frere has more. China's 34% tariffs take effect next week on all US imports and it still gives Beijing a bit of room to retaliate given there's 54% tariffs on all Chinese goods. Given the sort of things that China imports from the U.S. it's probably agriculture or farmers who are going to feel it most.
Soybeans, sorghum chicken, the sort of moves by Beijing that can not only hurt the US Economy but also hurt President Trump's support base. This is set to disrupt a trade relationship that last year was worth $582 billion. But Beijing sees little reason to show restraint. They announced countermeasures 36 hours after President Trump and they did so on a national holiday in China.
They're also launching an anti monopoly investigation into DuPont. They're adding 11 US companies to its unreliable entities list, which means there will be restrictions on how they can do business in China, as well as export controls for seven types of rare earths. This is the same sort of mix of tariffs and regulatory restrictions that we saw in the first two rounds. But the other issue or car that could be on the table here is tick tock.
President Trump has suggested that maybe China would get some terrorist relief in exchange for Chinese approval of a deal to sell TikTok to American investors. The issue is that there have been no negotiations to this point since this all kicked off. There have been no delays extended to China, no special carve outs. And Beijing is wanting to show that it's not going to sit back, that it's going to step up and retaliate against the US and tariffs that they have called blackmail and bullying.
All right, Janice, thank you. Fair. Thank you so much for that reporting. Joining me now is Richard Haas, President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.
Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. Look, we've been talking about President Trump's tariffs, how they are reshaping to some extent the world order from diplomacy to the economy. From a national security perspective, what do you think the global impact of these tariffs is? Well, you've got both an economic impact and you've got a political strategic impact.
The economic impact is bad for everybody. The old saying in war there's no winners, no losers. That's true of economic wars as well. The United States will lose and so will the rest of the world.
Also strategically, the United States I think loses it because it signals one, that we're unilateral, two are unreliable or unpredictable, all of which is inconsistent with maintaining a global order and alliances. Plus, quite honestly, the case for these tariffs is remarkably weak. So the rest of the world looks at this and simply loses respect for us. So not every cloud has a silver lining.
And that's how I would put this. I do want to play something that Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in response to these terrorists. Get your reaction on the other side. Take a at look.
But ultimately the markets, as long as they know what these the rules are going to be moving forward, as long as that settings and you can sustain where you're going to be, the markets will adjust. Businesses around the world, including in trade and global trade, they just need to know the rules. Are once they know what the rules are, they will adjust to those rules. There's been so much back and forth about whether these tariffs are a negotiating tactic or not.
Do you think the international community knows what the rules are right now? The short answer is no, because the United States is breaking the rules. The Secretary of State is right in principle, but I say wrong in practice. Yes, the world wants to know what the rules are, wants predictability.
On the other hand, what the United States has done by putting in these high towers, if that becomes the new normal, that will have an extraordinary dampening effect on global trade. And again, that will be bad for us and it will be bad for others. It will slow growth, it will increase unemployment, it will increase inflation. There'll be no, no one will benefit from this.
You know what's interesting is that the President has said, look, I'm open to negotiation if some of these countries come with something big. What we're seeing instead is already retaliation from China, the EU threatening that, Canada threatening that. Once you start with this retaliation, can there be an off ramp? Do you see an off ramp at this point?
A couple of things. We're not the only country with politics. Other countries have politics too, whether they're authoritarian like China or democratic like most of the countries in the EU and Canada. So they are going to be compelled to respond to this.
That said, yes, there are potential and likely offer ups. The real question is how far down we go and then when do we start the process of climbing back? I do think we'll get there, not all the way. I think ultimately there'll be a world of higher tariffs, won't be as high as what we're, what we're seeing.
And the whole process will cause more than a little bit of bruising, will destroy an awful lot of value. But no, I don't think this is an unlimited war. I think it will cut wind down. But again, wars only take one side to the end.
We see that here, whether it's Russia and Ukraine and the military war, the United States with an economic war. But it takes everybody to agree to wind them down. And it's just going to take off a lot of negotiations around, if you will, a multi sided table. I do want to put some of the numbers that we're seeing from these tariffs the administration says it is imposing on these countries.
Specifically in Southeast Asia, you have Cambodia, 49%, Vietnam, 46%, Thailand, 36%, Indonesia, 32%. So I think the question is, for a lot of people, as they look at these numbers, will countries in this region turn to China as an alternative to doing business with the US and does this not embolden China? Therefore, China will be one of the beneficiaries, whether it's of American tariffs, a weakened economic relationship, the fact that many parts of the world we pull back American assistance programs, nature affords a vacuum. So China will be one of the one of the beneficiaries of it and that could be lasting.
That's one of the things that even if we're able to wind down the tariff friction, that China will establish new relationships. I think a lot of countries will say we don't want to go back to a world where we are as dependent on the Americans as we were, because with that dependence comes vulnerability. And I think what we're going to see is gradually the rest of the world diversify their economic portfolio so the American role is less than what it has been. Well, just really important insights.
Richard Hoss, thank you so much for joining us on this monumental Friday. We really appreciate it. Coming up next, why a far right activist with a history of spreading conspiracy theories is taking credit for the ouster of top national security officials. Stay with us.
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Welcome back. Turning out to another high profile dismissal in the Trump administration, this time at the National Security Agency. President Trump yesterday ousted General Timothy hall, the agency's director, and his deputy, Wendy Noble, two career public servants who've served under Republicans and Democrats with nuclear rationale. Ha is also the head of the Cyber Command.
However, on social media, right wing conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer, who met with the president in the Oval Office Wednesday, took credit claiming Ha Noble were disloyal to the president due to their ties to the Biden administration. Democrats on Capitol Hill are irate over the firing with Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chair Mark Warner calling it, quote, astonishing. NBC News senior national security correspondent Courtney Cub is at the Pentagon with more on all of this. So, Court, let's just start big picture.
What does the National Security Agency do? What's the significance and what are the implications of this firing? This is one of the intelligence agencies for the United States and it's basically focused on signals intelligence, which usually called sigit. Basically, they collect, they analyze and they process signals intelligence.
Mainly we're talking about intercepts, so communications that are going back and forth. And they do that for the intelligence community. It's a critical part of the intelligence community. Why this is so important is that, number one, this was done very quietly without a whole lot of notice.
And there's absolutely no reason that we have heard so far from why General Hawk and Ms. Noble were fired from their positions yesterday. As you mentioned, Laura Loomer, the right wing conspiracy theorist, has claimed credit for this after meeting with President Trump this week in the Oval Office for probably about 30 minutes. But here at the Pentagon and across the ICS, but the intelligence meeting, as we've been asking these questions, we cannot get a real answer for why these two career intelligence officials were let go from the position.
General Hawk just became, not that nsa, it's a dual headed job, the national security agency and US cybercrime. He took over in February 2024, just over a year ago. Wendy Noble, but he, I should say he's been in the Air Force, primarily in intelligence and cyber for the last 30 plus years. Wendy Noble has been at NSC, NSA.
She's a career official. She's been there since 1987. This is the kind of person who generally the intelligence community loves to see rise through the ranks, meaning they love when someone who comes in young, starts out, stays with the agency, makes it up to leadership. We have no real reason at this point for why they was hired.
You know, it's so Interesting court, because Laura Loomer is someone during the campaign who came under a lot of scrutiny from the president's own allies who said she's a conspiracy theorist. She shouldn't be near then candidate former President Donald Trump now that he is serving his second term. You have to imagine his allies aren't too comfortable with her holding an Oval Office meeting. What are you learning, if anything, about what happened at that meeting?
Whether they're comfortable with it or not, Kristen, the reality is it appears in this case she had a tremendous amount of sway here. We know that multiple National Security Council officials were fired after her visit. We know that these two were fired. Again, we still don't know for sure that was directly involved.
All we have is her social media posting. And whenever anyone in the White House is pushing back on her assertions that her meeting was what made the difference here, she's making claims about that. These individuals who are disloyal again, General Hawk, Wendy Noble, the heads of the National Security Agency are career officials. They have served both parties.
They have served in various locations around and for General Hawk, at least around the world in intelligence and cyber. There has never been any case of allegations of partisan behavior by him at least. And Ms. Noble was a career official at the NSA.
All right, Courtney, thank you so much for your reporting as always. Really appreciate it. We want to turn back now to the big breaking news today. It's been over 48 hours since President Trump announced the biggest overall of US economic policy in generations.
Other than briefly speaking to reporters on his way to 40 yesterday, we haven't really seen the president on camera explaining to the American people what to expect in the coming weeks. Most of what we've heard from him has been through his social media accounts and his markets plunged again today. And Fed Chairman how warned of rising inflation. President Trump was not in Washington or on the road selling his plan to the public.
He was at his South Florida golf course. Joining now to discuss all of this is Kevin Fry, Washington correspondent For Spectrum news, New York 1, Simone Sanders Townsend, former senior advice and Vice President Harrison, co host of the Weekend on msnbc and Republican strategist Lance Trover. Thanks to all of you for being here. Kevin, let me start with you.
Let's talk about this message messaging strategy or potentially lack thereof by the president. We did hear from him yesterday a couple of times as he was leaving and then again on Air Force One. A number of Republican strategists, though, have said, look, we need to hear more from him. This is a critical moment when he needs to be out front explaining this to the American people.
What is your sense of where the messaging may go? Well, this is kind of two prong. One is there is the messaging that's being conveyed by the president and his team, which is kind of all over the place in terms of what to make of this tariff rollout. Is it negotiation?
Is it not? He's saying that his, quote, policies will never change. At the same time posting on social media that the leader of Vietnam is open to having a discussion about reducing tariffs in that country. And so it's kind of all over the place on that end.
At the same time, you have him, as you mentioned, out in the golf course. And so you saw Senator Chuck Schumer just as the markets were closing down 2,200 points, posting a photo of him out riding around his golf course. So there is like this opening. Democrats have been looking for a moment, seem to now have one.
Yeah. And Lance, the messaging has been a bit all over the place. I want to play some of what we've heard and get your reaction on the other side. Went through an operation on Liberation Day and it's going to be a booming country, very booming country.
It's going to be amazing. Actually. You saw the president said earlier today, it's like a patient who was very sick. We did the operation and now it's time to make the patient better.
And that's exactly what we're doing. The operation has happened. It was yesterday. The patient, I get it, the patient's in bed and starting to recover.
But what it's going to do is it's going to create a renaissance of manufacturing. Lance, what do you make of that explanation? Do you think that resonates with Americans? Does the president need to go further potentially?
Think about hitting the road, selling this plan. This is something he ran on. I think a lot of voters have been completely surprised by it. He is level set with the voters really on saying there may be some bumps in the road.
So I kind of disagree a little bit. I think he's kind of level setting up till now. Would I like to see that a little more? Yeah.
I also think Kevin and I were talking about this on stage while ago. I think there's an element here of wait and see because with this president, it seems there's always this rush to civilization's ending because Donald Trump made a decision today. And I think they're in this White House in particular, what they have stood over the course of the last eight years. I think they're taking wagency approach.
And that's. That's how they're doing it. I think that's okay for the moment. Civilization is ending for the people who have their money in the stock market, like people's pensions, their.
Michael Seal, my colleague, tells a story about how someone texted them and said in one day that the market dropped. They lost $8,000 out of their 401k and it took them 15 years to build that up. So, like, that's the reality for people out there. And my question on Vietnam, you know, I was like, oh, I.
Shy of the economic minor, I really was in real honesty, how does, how does Vietnam move in terror on Americ help bring manufacturing back to America? Because I thought the tariffs were to bring manufacturing back. So I think the other problem is that the explanation for why it's happening isn't. Isn't even coherent.
I did listen to three radios down from grass in Virginia yesterday. I was pleasantly stunned. Egg crises are going down. We saw jobs numbers today that were really beyond expectations.
And I think that there's a belief that this economy is strong and prosperous and growing and that we can withstand some of these bumps that have come along the way. No, no, no. Finish, please. So when it comes to this negotiation stuff, I've followed Donald Trump for a long time.
I find it very hard to believe that there's not a time and a place to negotiate with other people. Well, and that is really the big question, I think, Kevin. I mean, does this become a big negotiation? I spoke to President Trump on the phone last Sunday.
He said, yes, he's open to negotiating. He reiterated that again on Air Force One. Now, look, some of his top advisors, Peter Navarro, for example, are saying this is not a negotiation. So the messaging around that is conf.
Confusing. But President Trump has always cast himself as a deal maker. So that is a potential offering. Absolutely.
And one of these things we've seen as he's done these tariff rollouts over the last two months, is that he'll do them and then he'll take away the threat. The question is, what does he get out of it? We have seen instances where he has pulled back without seemingly getting much anything for it. But can he declare a win, even if it's small, and say we fix it and now we can get rid of these?
Yeah, let's put up. I want to put up the COVID of the Time magazine, the Economist. I'm sorry, the Economist, one from October of 2024. The Envy of the World, one from April of 2025.
Lance. Ruination Day. What do you make of this argument that the economy is strong? On one hand the president saying the economy is strong with the job numbers and yet it's a sipation.
Well look again I go back to I think there is no one's felt other than stock market. Yes, there are a bunch of days I give you that and we'll see Monday where this goes. But no American author has beyond that. We've not seen price increases.
In fact we've seen price drops off and that's what I'm seeing in terms of the gas prices and the egg prices. So I think there is an element of wait and see as this market adjusts and that's what we have to do. I think that's what they're making because the economy is strong right now he's benefiting from the economy of the Democratic President. Obama left him with a very strong economy and then I would argue he tanked it and hope it helped him do it this time.
Joe Biden left the president with a very strong economy and I don't know why he's trying to liberate us from all over material things. Why is there 25% tax on South Korea? What about my Koreans can't care. They realize that this is real for them.
Come what the first, the first the 2% goes in effect on the fifth and then large cell reciprocal on the tenth. This is real for people. And the question I think is are we going to see Congress do anything? Can they just do anything?
Kevin, let me read you something. One senior Republican aide granted anonymity to describe the dynamics inside the party, told Politico that GOP lawmakers were prepared to give Trump several months at the very least. Everyone is terrified, the aide said. But I don't think anyone wants to cross the president right now.
What are you hearing on Capitol? I think the most important review just said there was anonymous that no one wants to publicly be out there and we have seen some little cracks. You saw Ted Cruz suggesting that this could be terrible for America. These these cares continue for a long time without some sort of adjustment on the world stage.
You saw of course those Republicans, a few of them, albeit the usual suspects voting to try to push back on the Canadian tariffs and also this bill from Grassley to try to rein in congressional control which mind you I believe Trump would also have to sign. So good luck getting that into law. But you are seeing some cracks in the infrastructure. But in order to really do anything comprehensive to push back, many more people come out and more publicly push back and there is still as this individual road, a great deal of fear of crossing him at this time when he does have the base still so firmly behind him within the Republican Party.
And I think crack is actually a very good word to describe it. So let me ask you about this week that we saw for Democrats. They obviously are watching what's happening on Wall Street. They won the Wisconsin State Supreme Court race despite Elon Musk pouring millions of dollars into the Trump backed candidate campaigning there.
They narrowed the margin in those two special races in Florida. Do you think Democrats will take this moment and start to find their footing? Look, I think that this moment should teach Democrats that you to be competitive, that this is not an insurmountable wall, if you will, of a mandate. And that if you campaign, if you organize, if you build infrastructure and ask people for their votes and demonstrate why you would be different than your opponent, you can win.
All right, guys, thank you so much. Great. Oh my gosh. Thank you.
Thank you. I appreciate it. 20 years of NBC. Thank you for remembering.
Really appreciate that, guys. Kevin, Simone and Lance, great conversation. Silicon Breaking news from the courthouse as a federal judge has ruled that the Trump administration has just three days to return. A Maryland man was mistakenly deported to that El Salvador mega prison.
You're watching the press now. Stay with us. Well, the map is after the federal judge granted a preliminary injunction in the case of a Maryland man who was in the US Legally and deported to El Salvador due to what the administration is calling a, quote, administrative error. The judge is now demanding that the government return him to the US By Monday.
But earlier this week, the Trump administration argued that the government lacked the authority to seek his return from El Salvador. This morning at a press conference ahead of the hearing, his wife spoke about the pain she has felt over the past several days since her husband was mistakenly taken by authorities. The pain I feel is unreal. Alone, confused in a broken home, empty, without Kilmore.
The nightmare has become my reality in the past 23 days. We must fight for our husbands, our children, our neighborhood, our loved ones. Viper Kilmer, in fact, for all the immigrant families, lighting a candle for the loved ones that disappear by administration. Joining me now is NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent Julia Ainsley.
Julia, thank you so much for joining us. So this is really an extraordinary set of circumstances. What stood out to you from this hearing today? Well, this case has really become a flashpoint over whether or not the Trump administration was prepared enough when it started this policy to move these people to El Salvador and they come out in Court papers and said, look, it was a mistake.
And today the judge really pushed the administration to come up with a number of pieces of evidence they just could not give. One thing that the judge asked a liar for the Justice Department is on what authority is he being held there? He said, I also do not know and therefore cannot answer your question as mom is. The administration made a strategic decision to withhold some information here.
He also asked to see any bit of a contract. The judge said, I'm very used to reviewing contracts, so I can see whether or not the usse, ISO authority to bring this man home. And the Justice Department said, we are not going to provide that evidence. It's almost that maybe they thought it was too much of a risk to put all that out into the public record through this case.
But now that the judge has ordered that he does have to be returned in the next three days, the question is, will the Trump administration fight this, or will they simply return this man and try to move on from the situation? Is there a sense that they can move that quickly the next three days? Based on your conversations with sources, are they prepared to move that quickly if needed? I haven't heard what the inside talk is since this decision just came down the last hour or so.
But, yes, they move that quickly. They move those people there. There's clearly a relationship. They pointed out in court today, this man's lawyer, look, secretary from security inside that prison, of course they have a relationship.
If she can get there, if these people can be moved there within hours of Trump signing the Alien Enemies act, it should be easy enough to bring him home. And what are the implications for the other people being held in that El Salvador, Dominica pr Well, you would think that their families would start to want to look into their cases and get lawyers involved to see if they also had orders like this. This is a man who was ordered in 2019 to not be removed from the country, yet he had what's called withholding of removal that allows them to stay because of the circumstances in some countries. So you would think that those people, their family, their friends, that they can afford lawyers, would also be looking at their cases to see what else they can pick apart.
This week, we talked to two women who were accidentally put on those planes. It was just extraordinary reporting. Big picture, Julia. The president's deportation policy, obviously one of his key campaign promises, and he has faced a number of legal challenges.
Where do things stand right now overall? You know, I think they're still feeling that this is a success, because when they look at the border. The numbers are so low there, they just released the March numbers. And February and March were record lows for border numbers.
And if the whole idea is to try to really show people that if they cross into the United States, not only will they be deported, but they might be deported somewhere like El Salvador, they would call that a when you look at all numbers of deportations, they really don't stand out on that. All right. Julia Inslee, I know you've been all over this story. Thank you so much for joining us.
Really appreciate it. We will be back Monday with more MEET THE PRESS now. And if it's Sunday, it is MEET THE press. On your local NBC news station, I will have exclusive interviews with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant.
Plus, Senators Adam Schiff and James Langford will talk all about the terrorists as well as a range of other headlines from this past week. The news continues with Tom Costello. And for Hallie Jackson, right now, I'm Craig. Mel, Cheers.
Cheers. Cheers. I've always been a glass half full kind of guy, and now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way, too. Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges.
Their stories are funny and why can't it? So I hope you'll join me each week. Who knows, you might just come away with your own glass Half Full. Search Glass Half Full with Craig Melford.
From today on this.