Meet the Press NOW — August 11

Attorney General Merrick Garland points a special counsel to oversee the ongoing investigation into his boss's son, Hunter Biden. As the Department of Justice now says that Hunter Biden will likely have to face a trial on tax and gun charges. Plus, Donald Trump's lawyers also appear in federal court today as the judge limits what the Republican frontrunner can say in his election interference case and issues a new warning against intimidating witnesses. And new images of the utter destruction from wildfires on the island of Maui in Hawaii.

These 55 people are dead. More than a thousand may are still missing what the governor is calling the worst natural disaster in state's history. Happy Friday. Welcome to MEET THE press.

Now, I'm Chuck Ty recording from Washington. And we begin today with multiple breaking developments on legal cases that have significant political implications for the 2024 race for president. In an unexpected but also, perhaps in hindsight, inevitable move today, Attorney General Harry Carl announced The Department of U.S. attorney David Weiss to now serve as a special counsel to oversee the Justice Department ongoing investigation into President Biden's son.

Under Biden, on Tuesday of this week, Mr. Weiss advised me that in his judgment, his investigation had reached a stage at which he should continue his work as a special counsel, and he asked to be so appointed. Upon considering his request, as well as the extraordinary circumstances relating to this matter, I have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint him as special counsel. And just moments after that announcement from the attorney general, Weiss's team revealed in a court filing that plea negotiations with Unbide's lawyers over tax and gun charges had fallen apart and that they expect the case to go to trial.

Now, White House says was not given advanced notice of today's announcement. Weiss was appointed. U.S. attorney Donald Trump is now one of three special counsels that have been appointed by Mayor Carter.

That includes a special counsel named Robert Herr, who obviously is somebody you don't hear a lot from. He was the one that was appointed to investigate President Biden's handling of classified documents. In fact, NBC News was first reported earlier today that attorneys for President Biden actually in talks with federal prosecutors and Mr. Herr over the idea and the terms of an interview with the president.

All of these comments, lawyers for Donald Trump and federal prosecutors working for another special counsel, Jack Smith. We're in court today. The judge ruled that protective order limiting what the former president can say about evidence can only apply to what she called sensitive materials, not all materials. And it'll be up to the Justice Party to decide those sensitive materials.

And while right now the Courtroom may be the most important venue in the fight for the Republican nomination. Judge Republican rivals are fighting out in what is traditionally ground zero in the fight for a primary campaign for president, the Iowa State Fair, where they are meeting and greeting and eating with voters all over the place. So let's unpack the legal situation. 39 set NBC News justice reporter Ryan Reilly.

We also have he covers the Trump campaign. And also with me is White House correspondent Monica Alba and Carol Lanley, former federal prosecutor, NBC News legal analyst. All right, Ryan, let me start with you. I want to get we'll get into sort of let me ask this.

What took so long? This when you think about the rationale that Merrick Garland laid out for naming Jack Smith a special counsel and and in fact, I think I have that sound on my play right now. The Department of Justice has long recognized that in certain extraordinary cases, it is in the public interest to appoint a special prosecutor to independently manage an investigation and prosecution. Based on recent developments, including the former president's announcement that he is a candidate for president in the next election and the sitting president stated intention to be a candidate as well, I have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel.

Such an appointment underscores the department's commitment to both independence and accountability in particularly sensitive matters. The reason I played that again, I don't want to confuse you. He didn't say that today. He said in November.

That was no, the same rationale makes sense for Hunter Biden. What took so long? Well, I mean Hunter Biden is a presidential candidate, so I think there's a little bit of distinction there. But you know, moreover, I think that the U.S.

attorney who was in charge of his now special counsel here said that he needed everything that he had everything that he needed. Right. He could make these decisions independently. That there wasn't really a reason for him to be appointed special counsel.

Something changed recently and that was on Tuesday apparently is when for the first time now that U.S. attorney then asked to become special counsel. So now we're we don't know what changed though. We don't, we really don't know what changed.

Why should he be looks up I think a fair criticism. This guy botched the plebeian. We didn't Lindsey Graham describes it because it says the craziest plea deal ever. It's please, that's not but why put the same attorney in charge of this?

I mean he's a truck appointed attorney. He also appointed attorneys could have found this is true. I mean he was the One who was sort of looking at this at the beginning, right. This case was sort of on his plate when this all came about.

And ultimately, the stuff they ultimately focused on, which is why this really got tricky, was not ultimately in Delaware. Right. So when these cases are brought forward, going forward, we're probably going to see them in D.C. and California because there's not really venue.

The only reason that it moved forward temporarily in Delaware was because Hunter Biden agreed to say, hey, okay, I'll be. So are you saying the rationale may simply be so he can file charges in another jurisdiction? That's potential. And I mean, literally, that's the only thing.

Reasoning that is one explanation of many. I think that. But he doesn't have the ability to do that right. At this point because there's no plea deal, because there's no ple deal anymore.

He has to move forward. He can't really do that in Delaware. He has to do it in a place where the lynch crimes actually took place. Because this is now a contested issue.

This isn't something we're going to say, okay, we got this. We agree. Let's move for that's what he's my. I know what the White House is saying publicly.

Nothing. They can say nothing publicly. What are you hearing behind the scenes? How concerned are they?

This is no longer something they can compartmentalize as a right wing obsession. Joe Biden's attorney general decided to name a special counsel in Hunter Biden. This takes that talking point off the table. What's the Ian Sam's argument now?

You're right. Shocking that this now becomes incredibly complex politically. But I think the big thing I'm hearing from sources that I checked in with is the added family dynamic to all of this. Just really complicated.

And we did get a preview of that when the plea agreement news initially emerged earlier this summer and the president first laid out that statement saying, we love Hunter, we support him, we stand by him, we're not going to say anything else. And over the course of the week after that, I did a lot of reporting on just how the president views anything that relates to Hunter. When AIDS have brought it up to him in the past. He's essentially told them, get out of here.

I don't want to talk about that. I want to listen to what you're saying to me about my son. He's my son. I love him dearly.

I'm going to keep a distance. Remember, we saw Hunter at the state dinner at many different appearances in the weeks after that, there was absolutely no effort to make any kind of a change to the real motors operandi of this family inside the White House. And so I don't think we're going to expect to see that shift. And as part of my conversations today, that is still the line, of course, this is a president who is now dealing with his own special counsel.

Separately, his son is now under special counsel review. But at the end of the day, they're saying this is a father who. That is how he views this through that prism. First and foremost, whether that creates a ton of blind spots for him, whether that is something that politically backfires, he doesn't really care.

So that has been the sort of first knee jerk a little bit more probably emotional reaction to all of this. The White House is going to continue to say this is like any other Department of Justice probe. We had nothing to do with it. We didn't have any kind of heads up.

This is not us interfering in any way either. And they want to make that a very crystal clear point as well. Chuck. Well, we shall see what this does.

His polling numbers are just in terrible shape when you consider whose opponent is in the thrice indictments. And speaking of that, Ryan, let me move to that case. You were in the courtroom for that. And I will get you in here, Garrett, since your beat is the Trump beat.

So the judge on one hand accepted the premise that there are some things that are sensitive, but she also seemed to put the burden on the Justice Department to decide what would be sensitive and what isn't. So we have an idea what that is yet. I think the Justice Department wants to make that a lot of things. There are some things that are just public that he can access in other ways.

He already has access to a lot of this information that brings over discovery. So, you know, that huge number, when you hear 1.6 million documents, it's a lot. But he's already got a lot of that. You know, a lot of this will be searchable.

It's all the relevant. It's gonna be a lot of transcripts. It's certainly a lot of work. But I think DOJ is basically coming out and saying a lot of this should be protected because, especially because of the language we've already seen Trump use on social media and the impact that we've seen in other cases.

It's very important to make sure it's protected. What's enforcement look like? Great question. I mean, there's really only one.

I mean, the judge had a very strong message at the end of that, and she said she would do what is necessary to make sure that this doesn't become a circus, that we're gonna keep these rules in place, that they're gonna operate as close to normal as is possible. I thought the judge came up with a very effective enforcement mechanism. We had this conversation yesterday. It wasn't clear what it would be.

Her comment said anything you say that could prejudice this case, that could interfere with the jury pool or witnesses will speed up the date at which we need to go to trial. I thought that was by far that was affected by accidentally. Look, the more you mess around with this, the quicker we gotta start, the quicker we'll start. It's not gonna Trump seems more than the delay.

This is the calendar as proposed by the Justice Department right now and everybody else on this is Trump's primary calendar, if you will. So there's August 23rd, January 2nd. We started the trial 13 days later, Iowa. Then of course, you have March.

We've left out the, the all of the other primaries in between January, March. So we'll update that graphic when we get the chance. But there's a couple things I'm hearing here. Number one, that the Justice Department is likely asking or to move their date that that is more likely than not going to happen opening the spring.

I mean, is the tropical thing to be realistic in their ask? No, not at first. I mean, I think in the ask they're going to put on paper coming up here. I think I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for date in 2025.

I think they understand that, you know, they got to start dating. No, absolutely not. But that became more clear today. By the way, she said in several different ways, basically your politics are your problem.

I mean, she made it very clear that Donald Trump being a political candidate is not going to factor in her decision at all. Before I turn to Carolina, sort of unpack more of this, watch a post. An interesting little story today, friend Blake, over how suddenly Donald Trump is adding the phrase, in my opinion, quite a bit now that the lawyers have gotten him. He still says the election was stolen.

In my opinion, it's a noticeable change. Are you noticing this? Yes, but this is the kind of thing where he gets cautious for a few days or few speeches anytime that stuff. We've seen this, we've seen this pattern for eight years now.

So I wouldn't expect it to hold. It does seem like the lawyers might have gotten hold of the telepractor for a little bit. But you asked me again in a week, Ryan, when should we expect a Final decision on Charlie end of the month is when the trillion be set 28th. So Trump's team has to respond in the next few days.

And based on what the judge said today, given that they are receiving 1.6 million documents, she said, well, I can guess what your suggestion is going to be after learning that number of figures back in the scenario series. I think that's right. They're going to try to go as long as they can. The best I can next year.

And I would be probably generous. I wouldn't. I mean, if I had to put a number, maybe March, you know, like somewhere in that, like. Yeah.

All right, let me bring in Carolyn now. Carol, I want to start with this Hunter Biden case. We are two weeks removed from a near plea deal and now the same person's a special counsel. I can't recall something like this.

You've done this for a career. How unusual. Chuck, I think that you have to look at what was going on in Merrick Garland's world during all of these special counsels. And the Department of Justice is not set up to be a Department of Special Counsels.

Maybe you have one special counsel investigation going on at a time. At one point he had three. Now then the Penn Special Council finished its work and then now it looks like we're gonna have three again. That's very unusual.

And I think Ryan was exactly right when he said the different series at Hunter B. Himself is not actually a presidential candidate. So. So I think Merrick Garland was trying to keep a, keep a door that raise the bar for having a special counsel.

And he thought at that point, at that point when he let David Weiss proceed as a U.S. attorney as opposed to a special counsel, that he could give him independence. He was a Trump appointee. He could tell him, you know, the field is clear for you.

And there was this possibility that they were working towards a plea and that would be enough. You know, David Wise, what changed this week was that apparently the plea negotiations have totally broken down. And so it looks like now, at least for now, they could always restart and we could always see it plea in the future. But for now, it looks like they're heading towards a potential indictment on felony charges and possibly a trial.

With that kind of situation facing Hunter Biden and these IRS whistleblowers who have come and said, you know, this was not actually an objective, fair investigation. I think that Merrick Garland made the decision that this in between kind of solution he found where he created to have David Weiss doing this as a US Attorney just wasn't enough for appearance's sake. And so now he was going to take the next step and make it a special counsel situation. There's no ideal situation here for Merrick Garland, but he's taking the step that, especially when David Weiss asked to be made a special counsel, he couldn't say no at that point.

So I think that's where. That's why the ships have fallen where they are. I get why it happened, but this was. This doesn't feel like the right solution here, because it doesn't absolve what he's trying to absolve the Justice Department of which is the perception of bias.

There's always a perception of bias. That's the problem. Because the Department of Justice works for the executive branch. The Department of Justice works for the president.

And so generation after generation, we see this issue coming up. The worst example is probably the Saturday Night Massacre. There is just an inherent tension there where the Department of Justice reports to the president. And now we have had three presidential candidates in this election.

In this anticipated election, we've had three with special counsels appointed to investigate them, and now a fourth to investigate one of the candidates. Son. So it's. You're never gonna get rid of this tension.

The irony was the whole idea. Merrick Garland wanted to avoid all special counsels. And it did feel as if the minute he felt. He felt Trump forced his hand to do it when Trump decided to announce as a candidate.

But the minute he did, it felt like he opened the door to keep naming him. Because once you make perception of bias, you're rational for starting one. How does it not apply to almost every other politicized case you're dealing with? There's a big difference of opinion about that very point, Chuck.

Some people feel that it was not necessary to appoint a special counsel in the case of investigating Donald Trump. Some people say it was inevitable. It's. It's not.

There's no great solution to this. Mercy made the call he made. But, yes, once he was being investigated for retention of classified documents, and then they were found in the possession of both my pens and Biden, then it became inevitable that he had to appoint those special counsels as well. Let me ask you about the judges.

The judge of the Trump trial using speeding up the trial date as an incentive not to speak out. You think that's about the best way she could, quote, enforce her warning to the defense? I don't know if it's the best way, and I don't know if it's the only way, this is a big power struggle between Donald Trump and Judge Tuck in, and she has to win this struggle. I mean, this is her courtroom.

She has to make sure that her rules are followed. And she does have several levers at her disposal. I was expecting her to somehow involve his lawyers because they have their own independent responsibility to follow ethical. She could threaten them with consent.

She could, because she had actually now made them part of, part of her requirements. Right. She says you have to look at his notes that he takes when he's reviewing the discovery. You have to establish that he is not writing down any witnesses, identifying information.

And so if he comes out and he discloses that publicly in his rallies or in his tweets or in his social media, she's going to bring those lawyers in and say, did you do everything I told you to do? And that doesn't violate the attorney client privilege. She's saying, I put these requirements on you. And so they're now feeling on the hook and they're going to be nervous about it.

And that's going to make them more diligent and make them pay attention to what Donald Trump is doing. All right, that's the legal situation. I'm going to get into the political father from this. But, Monica, I want to get your two cents.

Does the Biden team, are they aware this good? Sort of. There's already hand wringing about him in the primary. There's hand wringing because of the whole no labels thing.

Are they worried the special counsel could lead to more of that? I mean, I think this is a less than ideal scenario, no matter who you ask. But they also have really taking the view that cooperating, allowing this unfold the way it needs to is also a very important part of the calculation. I think you also have a White House here that is watching and waiting like everybody else to see, like, just how long this is going to take.

If we're talking about this going to trial for Hunter Biden later this year, does it get punted to sometime the 2024 calendar year like you have the president's son on trial at the same time that the former president is on trial is something completely different in that calendar that you were showing in that primary process that's not beyond the realm that becomes a part of the conversation that they cannot ignore, even though that will be their strategy. I don't expect any kind of a messaging shift to change here. I think they're going to continue to say that this is what we're doing. And, you know, Hunter Biden's own attorneys continue to say the end of this.

They think he will be cleared of all wrongdoing. So we'll see. And Garrett, I assume the Trump folks are just ecstatic but they now they're no it's all money. This is all he wants.

He just wants it to look muddy on everybody and everybody's got it now it's what about all the way to the bank Regardless of what the special council finds. Well it was a heavy open but we had a lot to get. You guys are terrific. Ryan, Garrett, Monica, Carol, thank you all come out the old fashioned politics.

All eyes on Iowa. These were trying Republican rivals or fighting the winner voters fighting to be the top shop alternative if it even matters Red taco politics and porch chops that the all report state fair to dead but first like a bomb went off. That's how the governor of Hawaii is describing the scene in the historic town of Lahon. We're on the ground with the latest next to watch the press now.

Welcome back. At least 55 people are now confirmed dead from the wildfires in Maui and officials expect that number to rise as rescue and recovery moves into a fourth day and are actually able to get to more of the island now that these fires are contained and put out are getting put out. Maui County Mayor Richard Bisson told NBC this morning the death hole so far only accounts for people found outside of buildings were in cars the inside of many many buildings destroyed by the fire. They haven't been searched yet.

That's why there is some grim concern that this death toll number could go up very high. Firefighters continued about six fires on the valley and the Big island with the devastating lahaina fire now 80% contained. New drone footage of the islands to store count of Lahona shows the scope of this devastation. Buildings were reduced to burned out shells or simply turned to ash in some cases.

The gun of Hawaii Joshua compared a single bomb blast up. Witnesses shared their harrowing experiences from the fires in the NBC News as some survivors just narrowly escaped the flames. As the fires got closer to us we realized we had to keep moving and jumping into the water because the car would be on fire and the flames would be coming over the wall and hitting us. I just knew that had choked smoke and I couldn't tell where I was sometimes when we first got there and got through it was devastating.

It felt like a war zone and it was still fresh. Locals are pointing to one civil hope in resilience in the rubble. This is a large banyan tree, 150 year old tree that served as a monument in the heart of Lahana. It's badly storage, but it is still sand.

And officials say they assume the roots are still healthy, meaning the tree will grow back. Steve Patterson is live at Maui's airport for us. So Steve, give us the latest today. Are people getting out of the island?

Are people allowed to go in and inspect their homes yet? Yeah, Chuck, we're hearing from the governor that people will be allowed to come back to their home still early. You know, I want to make that clear. The announcement could come in the next three to six hours or so.

Usually we get the announcements every three hours or 9:12, three could be about 3 o' clock people here. Yes, the roads are opening up. You can go back to your homes, but that comes with a warning, of course, the governor saying, yeah, you can get back to your neighborhoods at some point today, but God knows what you're gonna find. And he's made that perfectly, abundantly clear that these are sites that nobody has ever seen in this state's history.

So we've moved. Jackpot. We're at a shelter now here on Maui. This is Maui High School behind me.

We've seen people all day long bringing blankets, bringing fuel, bringing food, bringing water. Much like Abandon Tree, it is sort of the hope that exists. And the aloha spirit here, it is still keeping people together. And anybody that was a survivor have now become somebody that is donating to the cause.

Which is great to see, but still so many harrowing stories. Just like you heard, there are people barely able to escape in making it out to a shelter like this. See, what do we know about what's still burning? Yeah, six fires are still burning, Chuck.

They are not out. They're mostly contained, which is really good, especially the one that burns. Lahaina 80 contained. Usually when containment goes above 25, that fire is burning out.

So that's what we've seen. There is really the one bit of good news that we know. It is unlikely that any more fires will spread the communities. But anytime you have fire, all it takes is a good wind gust and enough fuel for that to move to a different location.

So of course fire officials keep an eye on it. But for the most part, the operation is now focused on the town that you were seeing, trying to get anybody connected to the missing and then trying to pull bodies out of that rubble. Steve Patterson on ground for some now. Steve, thank you.

I'm joined now by Alexa Caskey. She's a resident restaurant owner in Lahaina and was There when the fire broke out. She's been helping to feed those in need of late. Alexa Caskey.

Thanks for taking a few minutes. So just tell me about. Tell me about the minute you realized what was happening. I was a little bit south of the fire.

I've been watching it for a couple hours. People had evacuated from behind the town to my house. And then when the fires got really close to where we were, we all decided to evacuate when one of our exits was blocked by fire. So we knew it was gonna be bad.

We didn't know how bad. And now my efforts have been mostly trying to, one, get fuel to people that are stranded on the west side that are okay to get in their cars to be able to get to houses that have been volunteered, you know, with space to house people who are displaced Right now. How much warning do you feel like residents had? Is this something that you feel like you should have had more, or.

Look, this was just an unusual circumstance, and, you know, look, everybody was calm. I don't. I didn't really hear any warning at all. So I think that probably could have been better for sure.

It isn't unusual for us to have fires in the Haina. It's quite dry there during the summer. We do get a lot of high winds, which almost every time seems like it results in a fire, Although this one has definitely been the most devastating that I've ever witnessed. And it just spread so fast for the 36 hours pretty much prior to when we left, which was two Wednesday morning, I believe it just sounded like freight trains.

The wind sounded like freight trains for a day and a half. It was absolutely unrelenting. So it's not surprising that the fire was spreading so quickly that it really caught a lot of people off guard. You said this isn't.

You said some ways this is something. It's not unusual to have some fire start. Is this. I mean, what.

What is it usually? Do people camp out? If these campfires gone wrong, bonfires gone wrong, or just the dry season, I think it could be started from a number of things. I think that the big one from 2018, I had heard, was a result of arson.

There were a number of them that were started basically simultaneously in very high winds. They didn't last as long as these. But also very, very high winds, like, spread the fires very quickly and burned down a couple of homes. And it seemed devastating at the time.

It was certainly. But it was nowhere near as terrible as this. Yeah, we. We generally do have a fire on the west side that's Fairly substantial, I would say at least once a year.

But this one is by far the worst. Rebuilding it is how confident that everybody's gonna have the will to do that. I think a lot of people are gonna leave. A bunch of people that I know that had lived in a rental property that I had for employees or have told me that they're leaving and moving to California or moving back to the mainland immediately, which you know is gonna be good for a lot of people.

There's not gonna be ways, there's not gonna be jobs. There's not goes to make money. They don't have anything right now. And there's definitely, obviously people are gonna be trying to rebuild.

I have no idea when that's gonna start. This setback, the local economy, a couple of years minimum, doesn't I think that it's gonna take six months just to pick up the rubble, you know. Well, Alexa Cassidy, I know you've been trying to do your best to help others because you were able to survive. It's the only way these things happen.

Communities will rebuild. It sounds like you're gonna be one of those that plants applied there. So good luck and we're all pulling. We're trying to help.

Thank you so much. Thank you. So as you heard, some help is needed in Hawaii here. Just some of the organizations that could use your support that we have vetted that we believe these are good organizations.

There's the Maui Food bank, there's the Red Cross and there's the Hawaii Community Foundation. All of those folks we know and we have vetted that are working on the ground. Up next, Ferris wheels, fried food and first in the nation, pocket scopes. We have the latest promoters, candidates, the Iowa State Fair where Trump is set to speak tomorrow on that old soapbox.

You're watching the press now. Welcome back. As we mentioned at the top of the hour, there are now two distinct Republican primary contests happening right now. One is playing out in the court and what is happening at the campaign trip as Trump's lawyers argue with prosecutors over what he's allowed to say publicly regarding his latest indictment.

Some of his rivals were the Iowa State Fair meeting caucus stores amidst the butter and fried food making their pitch and why they should be the party's nominate. Trump will make his own state fair pilgrimage tomorrow. But of course, his candidacy and his little troubles are still in the minds that people NBC News have been speaking with the fairgrounds today. Here's some of what fairgoers for Iowa had indicted three times.

Now potentially a fourth indictment coming does that impact your vote at all? No, no. It may be a difference because I think, I think are all those charges. Does it concern you though that he's going to be tied up in all of the.

Yes. That's why I'm kind of leaning towards other candidates. We need to find somebody who doesn't have a whole train load of baggage. Well, I got a room.

We lost the Biden. So I guess it kind of depends on more I hear about the other ones running with him. And join me now on the ground for the most butterfly place on earth. I did that for my producers, NBC's Dasha Burns.

So, Joshua, look, you know I'm always nervous on when we talk to voters. Is that the consensus? We have three highlights. All seem to be Trump voters in a general.

But shopping for someone else in the primary, is that representative of what you've been seeing? Well, John, the vast majority of folks that I talk to say that they are open minded. They say that they're undecided. And that's why you've got all of these candidates here working so hard.

They're looking at the buttercast cows. They're real cows. They're flicking burgers. They're doing all that they can to connect with these voters.

Because while his lead is so large nationally, what we see in the polls is that his lead here in Iowa is narrower. It's still big league, but it's narrower and it's softer. And we saw what that softness means as we talked to voters today. It means that they are toward the president, the former president.

They like him, they like his policies. But what you heard there, the baggage. They are concerned that he might not be able to win in a general election. And so they are, they are listening to what these other folks have to say.

We went to Governor Reynolds Fairside chats today. She hosted Mike Pence, she hosted Doug Burgum, Miami Mayor Suarez. And there were voters there. They were listening.

They wanted to hear what the candidates had to say. The problem, though, is they can't really escape the Trump factor. Judge Bergam tried it today when he was asked about Trump's legal problems. Take a listen to what you have to say.

If somebody wants to ask questions about, you know, another candidate's legal problems, there's an entire industry built around that divisiveness is actually a super profitable industry for all the cable networks because that's what keeps people tuning in, is why we have conflict leadership is not about conflict leadership is about problem solving. We're running to be the leader of this country. So that's going to be the challenging candidates. Voters are open, but Trump is taking up all the oxygen as he frequently does.

So how are they going to manage that in this primary? And of course tomorrow Trump's coming here. So is Governor DeSantis. They're going to be clashing with two front runners in this race.

That might cause some fireworks here at what so far has been a pretty wholesome, very fun fair. But when those two get together, some some arrows sent to fly to, well, it will be a packed fair. I remember Donald Trump and Sarah Palin were the back to back fairgoers back at 2015 and that was a monstrous mass of people. I imagine DeSantis and Trump will be similar to Dasha Burns at the best state fair on earth.

Dasha, thanks. All right, let's get into the political fallout from all these little wrangling links today. Joining the NBC News national reporters, someone senior founded former senior advisor Vice President Harris and hosted MSNBC former advisor Republican speakers Dana Ryan. And he's also an amazing political analyst.

Welcome all. So you're a creature as a reporter who has beats when it comes to political politics. There is one angle to this way uncovered yet on the special counsel decision 105. What does it do to the House Republicans push to start an impeachment inquiry?

Does this put it on pause? I don't think it puts it on pause. I think what Republicans are trying to do here is create a have that win tail to lose situation by criticizing this appointment. The real goal is to pay off the appointment.

They did get the appointment. They asked for the appointment but not satisfied with the appointment. They're attacking the US Attorney for what they call a sweetheart deal. The real goal is to damage President Biden to make him one term president to put down from back in the White House.

Anything short of that they will stick with the criticism that they don't trust. A whiteboard can't be trusted because of the deal he caught with them. But does it affect impeachment? I don't think so.

Super. McCarthy has opened that door. We know from recent history once he opened that door it's very difficult to close. I hear you but Brennan with that sitting out there, that's the easy get out of jail free card from McCarthy not hold this phone.

Yeah. I don't know that it derails it entirely but I think it might delay it. McCarthy A little time to say hold on a second. Politics to do impeachment right now.

He knows they don't quite have goods yet to go that far. Simone, we have talked about the starter situation. We know the President, he's using his family. He doesn't really hear, he doesn't want to hear about the political problems that come with this.

But now it's a special counsel and this is, they can't compartmentalize this as a right wing conspiracy anymore because it's his own attorney general that names the special counsel. Yeah, I mean I don't think we're going to hear much more. I know after the special counsel was named full for like ah, one of Biden's going to go to the camera. This is the day he goes to the cameras.

This is definitely not the day he goes to the camera. Yes. Not the day he goes to the cameras to talk about this. I think the appointment of special counsel just ups the likelihood that we will never hear anything from the President or the White House press briefing room about this particular investigation.

Set that aside though. I think that, you know, when the special counsel was named, I was like, why do we need another special counsel? I looked and David Weiss again hold the letters that he sent to his letters from letters to Jim Jordan, the letter in response to Senator Lindsey Graham. He it was clear from the last letter to me that Dave Weiss felt there was some additional there there and he did not have the leeway to go about and find out what it was but had assurances that if he asked he would get it.

And Tuesday apparently he asked. So here we are. And you know, I put up these gallot numbers from earlier. Say the fact that the unfavorable ratings for Trump and Biden are essentially even.

Bidens are actually a couple points higher than the Gallup number. But this has been across the board. Right. They're both viewed very negatively.

This just this only muddies the picture even more really. Does it not run the risk now for Biden that maybe the Dean Phillips conversation expands beyond people Indeed, fellows. And all of a sudden the backup plan of no labels. You can throw out the Joe Mitch, but that chatter now will get louder, doesn't go away.

The chatter will. I don't think the no labels third party candidacy saw that on the labels. But primary challenge I think is more real now. Plausibly, I think it's certainly at least a major headache for President Biden because every minute spent on Hunter, Biden's minute not spent on Donald Trump not spending messages that they want to advance about his chaos and try and drive that contrast, there's also a problem, a potential challenge, you know, unknown about the special Counsel sometimes when they're appointed, they find things that they didn't set out to find.

You never know where this is going to go. The authority here is very, very broad. Now the optimistic take I've heard is that this is simply a procedural move for David Weiss to go to trial with Hunter Biden because their jurisdictional issues. Right.

He couldn't file charges in California or in Washington. Right, exactly. That's where the tax charges came from. And he can't go to trial.

You can waive them in plea deal, but you can't go to trial unless you have broader authorities. That's optimistic. If you from I guess from Bidenworld reason this happened. Nobody really knows.

I mean I think someone is right that the White House is determined to say out of this. They said take your questions that would like see anybody other than Donald Trump nominated. Doesn't today make that actually hard? Yeah.

And look, I feel like Joe Biden has made himself very weak right now. And the big argument was made around somebody who can beat Joe Biden. Joe Biden looks like this. Not anybody could beat him at this moment.

Maybe that's not fair. But if the argument for Ron DeSantis is we need somebody electable, there's plenty of poll that shows that Donald Trump is. By the way, this is the same problem in 15 and 16. They want to say Trump can't be Clinton Palmer Syndicate.

Anybody. Could anybody look at this and see this is clearly a blind spot for Joe Biden. He loves his son, I'm sure. But if you are allowing your fortunes to be tied to whatever Hunter Biden may or may not have done, we don't exactly know what it is that special counsel is now trying to look into.

I mean it would be, I think wise to Democrats. I'm sure the president of course would never do this. But I will say this. Look, I get all of the personal stuff.

This is not a 24 year old son of the president United States. This is a 52 year old grown man who has made these mistakes throughout his life. We all feel. You feel sorry.

Addiction is a terrible disease. He still made a lot of bad decisions that are against the law. And he is, he is. Everybody else would be responsible for their own actions.

Well, I guess I think that Biden is having to take responsibility for his actions. I mean he had a plea deal that had a ple. Deal fell apart in court that we all watch happen. And now there's a special counsel investigating him.

And you know, I tend to leave on the side of the social at the White House that I think this procedural so they can go chase the lead that he could not chase without the special authority. And not that there's some additional there there but special counsel has brought authority. But I think this idea that Hunter Biden is not, is not meeting the consequences. I just, I don't know how that's true.

I mean he is, he is literally under investigation. This man is literally now potentially going, he's going to trial. This plea deal literally fell apart in front of the entirety of the American public. I think this word went out.

Despite Republican efforts, we have not found anything that is tied to directly. I do think it is a very fair question to ask Joe Biden. Did you know that your adult son for many years was getting rich off of using your name and your connections? Were you completely oblivious status this entire time?

Did you say anything about that? Those are very real questions that I think people have to be asked at some point. That's why he's not really going to answer those. I will just know.

I remember the President's parts of the third campaign and there were questions about what did you know about Hunter Biden's business dealings? And Joe Biden said then what I think we'll hear him say now, he said he knew nothing. He was not aware he had no part in any of the businesses. I think the follow up question though that Brendan noted, what conversations did you have?

Is is rabbit hole that you know on that campaign we've not allowed people to go down. Look, the reason why you don't have people on the right hole. How come you guys give Joe Biden benefit of that is because I covered him for 30 years and unlike almost every United States Senator, his net worth didn't grow 10x while sitting in the Senate. Right.

So he was known as a guy that did. But he didn't also write a letter like George H.W. bush did his sons and dogs and said hey, people are going to try to use you to get to me or use their friendship with you to get to me. He does seem to have one thought of us.

Yeah, well, I mean Biden doesn't have the kind of brand that the Clinton did for corruption and sleaze. So Hillary Clinton Ghazi and all that stuff 2016 was very bad for her because that, because that dip kind of for what people already thought. Now this could certainly damage president by the sort of Republicans try to do and depending on how his campaign and White House handle it, who knows what's going. But so far he doesn't start off with episode, I think it is notable he does not perceive to someone who's corrupt and there hasn't been as grandpa me close to this look, I know people are like, don't be up on Mary McGowan.

He has a plan. I would just know. I don't know what the plan is, but I would just note that there, you know, Blacksmith wouldn't be up against the wall if the Justice Department coming in in 2021 would have taken a hard look at the entirety of the January 6th case, not just the foot soldiers. And had it not been for the January 6th of May, I don't think we would be seeing any of the folks at the top, including Donald Trump currently being held accountable.

A lot of butterflies had to flap their wings to get to the point we got to. And that's sort of the point you want to make. I think it's a fair point on the blind spot of January 6th with me Garland until we got here. Simone Brennan Sale Friday news dumps.

My gosh. I want to go back. I've got one more news done for you that's to do with our Sam Bankman Fried, the disgrace former crypto king has just been ordered behind bars. Basically, the judges hired him having access to a computer.

We have that breaking news. You watch me press now. Welcome back. In an unusual move, the United States is now turning to Kenya to lead a multinational security mission amid rising gang violence and worsening humanitarian issues in the island country of Haiti, partially stemming from the assassination of the country's president more than two years ago.

Officials in Kenya offered to send a 1,000 strong police force to lead an international force in support of the Haitian police leaks. And the international community has been quick to support this proposal after the US And Canada both demurred on leading their own such security mission. Even though Canada and the U.S. are part of the same hemisphere as Haiti, Kenya is not.

For its part, U.S. department State continues to insist its commitment to Haiti is, quote, unwavering. So I bring it in. Keith Mines, he's the director of the Latin American program at the US Institute of Peace to try to get a little more clarity here of what's going on.

So anytime there have been problems with Haiti in the past, the United States, well, you can go back decades, has always felt a kinship responsibility. However you want to look at it at Haiti, this was a strange decision to outsource to Kenya. What's behind this? Well, there's not a lot of enthusiasm by anyone, frankly to go and do an international security mission in Haiti right now.

That kind of mission in general is not popular on either side of the political spectrum here in the United States. And frankly, there's a lot of Haiti fatigue. There's just a sense that we've done this a lot in the past, that it hasn't gone well. So why would we jump in again?

A lot of I think is misguided. There have been times when things have gotten considerably better. You should have been with our intervention. We're the ones that are closest.

There's a million Haitians that live in the United States. The Dominicans want us involved. The Dominicans would like to see a solution of any kind. They're not really in a position to do it, so they'd like to see something that would fix the situation.

I think they would naturally defer to us, but we've deflected, so they're open to other solutions. Why is this gang issue been so much harder to deal with? There's always been sort of factions within Haiti and it's been. But this seems to be on another level.

Well, if you go back to 2017, I think that was really the beginning of what we're experiencing now. And that was when the UN mission pulled way back from what it was doing before. Haiti is the kind of place that needs a long term accompaniment. I wouldn't say intervention or overwhelming force, but it needs an accompaniment with its police to keep things on track.

It's just the reality that a relatively new police force has and it's been a relatively new police force quite a while. Where do the gangs get their financing? So they are financing now almost exclusively by kidnapping. And that's the real chilling effect that it's having on the society.

They've taken over the streets of Port au Prince about 80% of the city, and they just finance it through kidnapping, a little bit of extortion, but mostly through snagging people off the streets. And with their economy. There used to be a decent tourism economy, I assume now that's just shut down. People are just not coming.

Well, they've never really recovered from the earthquake time, frankly. It was on the rise as a country, I think, up to the earthquake, but I think from there it's really never quite recovered. But the UN pulled back in 2017. It's made it really hard since then.

And that's what gave the opening for the gangs. With the gangs, you had the drop in security and then the assassination of the president. I'm just surprised at the lack of political will on this side. And I Say this as a South Floridian that I guess, where's the Haitian American diaspora?

You know, marching on Marco Rubio's office in Joe Biden's footsteps. One of the things that I can do, I think there's a lot of people that would like to see things better. They're not quite sure what to do, frankly. I think there's a sense of what do we do?

I would offer two things that could be done. One is that there is a need for a multinational political solution to this. And that's one of the things that the international community has also deferred on. CARICOM has a small effort that they started.

There was a Montana group. There's been December 21st. There's been a number of. Is there a model in the country where we've done something like this before where it's worked up?

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a number point. First off to the Balkans was one where we just put the diplomatic juice behind an effort and didn't stop until we had it. And I think it's the kind of thing that can be done.

It's a bad example now because of how it turned out. But the first few years of Afghanistan, we did the same thing. We collected together all the different factions of Afghanistan and the loyalty of Turkey gave them a good way forward. And there's smaller examples that I've been involved.

All of this looks like nation, billion people, which of course we know politically that's how this stuff becomes correct and we probably need to rebrand it. But look, at the end of the day, if we want to have a nation that functions rather than us trying to do everything or waiting for refugees to wash ashore is the way to do it. I got to ask about Kenya's. How often do they want to sort of flex their international diplomacy muscle like this?

Well, I think Kenya would benefit from this if they can pull it off. Well, so there's something in the international sphere that would be good for them. But I think they're also, I mean, just the beginning. We have to also be honest that they have been.

They have agreed to lead a mission if there's a mandate, if they can find the other countries. Correct. So there's a lot still to be done and that's a part that I think we have to watch out. How that lines up.

Well, there's always a lot of things going on, but I'm glad we got few minutes on the story. Keep lying. Thanks for your expertise. We're following some breaking news out of New York, where Crypto Exchange co founder Saint Bankman Frieda is now heading to jail immediately.

A judge revoked his bail and ordered him into custody, saying the FTX co founder had engaged a witness tampering all. Joining me now is NBC technology reporter Mackenzie Carlos. So Mackenzie, basically they want him to stop having access to a computer, right? I mean that's part of it.

So one of the big points contention was where he would actually be remanded into custody. The government had already had conversations with Putnam, which is a jail facility that would still give him access to a laptop with an Internet connection. Because the big question here is whether to be able to adequately prepare for trial, access discovery documents. And the government wanted to ensure that that was possible while also putting into place a lot of safeguards were necessary to avoid the kind of witness tampering that they alleged has been happening the last few months.

And that, I mean I saw a specific one. They think he leaked documents to a reporter. And that's not even a question. So yes, lawyers who defense acknowledged that that hadn't happened, but they were arguing that this was, you know, a first amendment right.

The judge came out to say that if even part of that motivation had to do with hurting a witness or trying to affect the outcome, then it was considered a felony. It was certainly grounds the judge deemed to, to revoke bail. Well, as you know in our, in my political beat, the issue of witness tampering and discovery being leaked is part of another situation with the former president. So it's interesting that this is the way this judge reacted here.

Is there any chance he could get back into the judge's good graces and get back into his Stanford campus home confinement? So you know, it was actually very, it was in courtroom today and then just hopped over 30 rock. But this ruling is a 33 minute explanation from the judge. The entire hearing took about 90 minutes.

He, the judge repeatedly said positive things about Cohen, who's the attorney representing sampling for the effort that he was making. But it just seemed that he was quite sure of the position they had. The defense team requested that they stay the ruling until they could have an appeal considered in the court. That was denied by the judge.

And again it was a very respectful exchange. You just acknowledge that they didn't feel defense had an adequate argument to make here. And this was a request from the prosecution. So it was a request from the prosecution to stay the.

I'm sorry, it was a request from the prosecution to jail him. Yes. And then the defense of saying were opened a more stringent set of terms around his home arrest. When do we expect this trial to be again?

Well, at this point, October 2nd. And the judge explicitly asked the defense today whether or not they wanted to, you know, seek an adjournment or extend out that trial date. They said at this point they're not looking to do that. So everything is still on track.

Well, one would assume now that he's in jail, he may want his trial start sooner rather than later anyway. MacKenzie, Scottish for CNBC on this busy day again, the old Friday news dumps all over the country, keeping those of us not in vacation market. Anyway, Mackenzie, thank you. That does it for this hour this week.

We'll be back Monday with more detail. Press now that Sunday feed the press on your local NBC news station. Live interviews with former vice president and now 2024 presidential candidate Mike Pence and a congressman who keeps talking about primary President Biden. And after this, today's news does get more serious.

Dean Phelps of Minnesota, NBC News now covers continues. There. Gilchrist, you sitting in? He was a young Marine.

She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn.

I'm Josh Matriz and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dayline. Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.