Meet the Press NOW — August 15

Welcome to me, the press. Now, I'm Kristen Welker on another historic day in this country, as former president Trump faces his fourth criminal indictment in just five months, this time in Fulton County, Georgia, in a sweeping 41-count indictment, a grand jury, last night, charged the former president, and 18 others with felony racketeering and connection with efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Mr. Trump's code defendant includes some of his top allies, because attorney Rudy Giuliani and his former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows.

Fulton County district attorney, Bonnie Willis, outlined the charges in a news conference late last night, telling reporters she intends to try all 19 defendants together, and she hopes to begin that trial within the next six months. Georgia, like every state, has laws that allow those who believe that results of an election are wrong, whether because of intentional wrongdoing or unintentional error, to challenge those results in our state court. The indictment alleges that rather than abide by Georgia's legal process for election challenges, the defendants engage in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn Georgia's presidential election results. Well, it says she's giving every defendant the chance to voluntarily surrender to authorities no later than next Friday at noon.

So here's the full extent of what they're facing. Over 98 pages, the indictment describes Mr. Trump and his allies as criminal organization, whose members and associates engaged in various criminal-related activities, alleging members of the enterprise corruptly solicited Georgia legislators to unlawfully appoint their own presidential electors for the purpose of casting electoral votes for Donald Trump. Former president Trump has responded defiantly on social media insisting he did nothing wrong, and attacking Willis as corrupt.

Last night, Willis responded to the former president's recent claims that the case is politically motivated. Here's what she said. I make decisions in this office based on the facts and the laws. The law is completely nonpartisan.

That's how decisions are made in every case. To date, this office has indicted since I've been sitting as a district attorney over 12,000 cases. This is the 11th Rico indictment. We followed the same process.

We look at the facts. We look at the law and we bring charges. It's worth noting the witnesses of the criminal charges now facing the presidential front runner. 91 criminal counts across foreign indictments in four jurisdictions.

So let's dig into what this all means for the former president, the Republican Party, the 2024 election, and are increasingly fragile democracy. To kick things off, I'm joined by Blaine Alexander in Georgia. Von Hilliard also outside the courthouse with the latest from Trump World, and Laura Jarrett has the latest on the legal developments. Blaine, I have to start with you.

You have been tracking these developments from the very beginning of this investigation. So what happens next in Fulton County? What are you watching for? Well, Chris, and I think what we're watching for is this kind of inevitable, almost trickle of defendants turning themselves in here in Atlanta over the next 10 days.

You know, Bonnie Willis was very clear in when the deadline was noon on the 25th. So they give defendants about 10 days to in some way come down here and turn themselves in. Now, how that happens, where that happens, and what that looks like, those discussions are still happening. And they're happening with a number of parties where the 18th defendants were not the former president.

I understand that they're happening amongst the DA's office, the judge who's overseeing this case, the sheriff's office who's going to be handling the surrender process, and then a number of other people who are part of it, of course, the defense attorneys as well. But for the former president, of course, Secret Service is going to be part of that process. In fact, our colleague, Kelly O'Donnell, has some new reporting that she spoke with her sources at the Secret Service. And they say that the Trump team has not yet communicated to them at time or a day when they plan to come down here and surrender, but notably, because, of course, schedules already, they're looking ahead to next week, not expected to happen at any point this week.

But it is interesting. It says, according to her source, they've already been doing the walkthroughs. They've already been kind of looking at security, surveilling, security down here in Atlanta to prepare for a potential surrender. Now, the other questions, though, of course, what will that look like?

I've been told that nothing's off the table theoretically. So we're talking about possible munchots, possible fingerprints. Will it be at the jail? Will it be at the courthouse?

All of those are things that are going to be ironed out in the coming days, Kristin? Well, and you take me to Vaughn, I know you're talking to your sources inside former President Trump's world. Do you have any sense of what that timeline might look like, Blaine, saying it's not going to be this week? But do you have any sense of when we might see former President Trump go to that Georgia courthouse and turn himself in?

Is there actively going on today? Former President Trump is in Bedminster as we speak here. Right now, I think if we look at the calendar in August 25th, is that deadline set up by Fony Willis for him to surrender? I think all of us have covered Donald Trump long enough to understand that on the calendar of his August 23rd and on August 23rd is the date of the first GOP presidential primary debate.

Donald Trump is not committed to part taking it at this point, but if it is up to him when he wants to coordinate with the District Attorney's Office, when he'll come in to ultimately surrender, I think that you would not be wrong to be targeting Wednesday of next week is that a potential date. We appear over the course of the last hours we should know to have been posting on social media. In one fundraising email, he was quite explicit to his supporters that, quote, justice in the rule of law are officially dead in America, and his attorneys here in Georgia put out in a statement last night that, quote, we look forward to a detailed review of this indictment which is undoubtedly Justice flawed and unconstitutional as this entire process has been. Donald Trump told me over the weekend that he has no intention of taking a plea agreement of any client here in Georgia or any of this other criminal proceedings.

And, Vona, I know you and our colleague Garrett have been drilling down on why Georgia is so important. It's obviously one of the key states that Mr. Trump would need if he is in fact nominated and wants to win the White House in 2024. Talk about politically speaking the impact of having this all happen in his critical state where you could say his election denialism has already been on the ballot.

Right, and then it's costume and you go back to last year, he tried to ask Governor Brian Kemp, who was the Republican governor who has certified the election here in the state, and he failed miserably. The candidate that he endorsed David Perdue, former senator who challenged Brian Kemp in that primary, lost by nearly 50 percentage points that's sort of been decided not only by Republicans but also your Democrats in the state in 2020 there, or 2021 more like it, two Democratic senators ascended to the U.S. Senate because largely of a repudiation of Donald Trump and his style of politics. Now the complicated part of this case that is pending here in Georgia is the fact that he has 18 other defendants, not only likes of Giuliani, Mark Meadows, but other prominent Republicans here in the state including the current Republican party, Chairman David Schaeffer here.

And so this is really tenuous for the party if in fact that Donald Trump ascends to the nomination when you look at the polling numbers for Donald Trump since his indictments. He was at just about a 15 percentage point advantage over Ron DeSantis on the day of his first indictment in March in New York. By the time the second indictment came around that number had doubled and now you know the current national average according to Real Clear Politics is a 39 percentage point advantage for Donald Trump. So at least within this Republican party he sees the benefits politically of this but ultimately come in general election.

That's where you're really in the crosshairs in a place like Georgia and Arizona. That's absolutely right. Let me turn back to you because as we come on the air there has been an update on what the clerk's office yesterday called a fictitious document it was basically circulating online yesterday afternoon and seemed to be a preview of the actual indictment. What more are we learning at this hour?

This has been one of the most strange kind of episodes within this entire you know breaking new situation Kristin. So what we saw just for those who aren't familiar yes we saw another news outlet put up charges that were allegedly coming against the former president then basically we learned that there was a document that went up temporarily was taken down the clerk's office yesterday called a fictitious document. Within the last hour though the clerk put out another message giving a lot more clarity to what happened essentially saying that this was kind of almost a test run and then once that error was discovered it was immediately taken down. So this is kind of the first time that they're really admitting to the fact that this was in fact on their website before it was kind of floated out there as some sort of fictitious document.

We had questions we were asking does that mean somebody made it up on their home computer and then posted it realized hacked or more likely wasn't a mistake it now appears that it was more likely a mistake on their part it was taken down immediately but certainly clause of flurry of confusion and I should point out that something that the former president's attorneys have seized on as kind of attacking this entire process in a statement they put out yesterday they said that the events of the day really just kind of show how unseriously the DA's office is taking this process so that's something that they pointed to as well. I should give this last fact Kristin though the DA's office doesn't have any share in posting that that's not the responsibility they're not the ones who post things to the website so it's important to kind of parse that out we're talking about the clerk's office not the DA's office Kristin. Really important clarification there phenomenal reporting all night long into this morning into this afternoon Lane and Vaughn thank you both so much we appreciate it Laura you too I know you haven't slept either so thanks for joining me we've been talking about this indictment throughout the day and one of the things that you and I continue to focus on is the fact that it's sweeping what stands out to you and just explain the significance of these charges. Yeah it really sort of amounts to the deepest dive if you will in one particular state obviously Bonnie was can only charge the crimes that happen with in her jurisdiction but she can use evidence of things that happened even beyond her borders and that's what she did in this case Kristin she took things that happened with faith electors in places like Arizona and Pennsylvania to show a common scheme to show a pattern of activity and under the racketeering law which is all you have to show is at least two unlawful underlying unlawful acts it could be witness tampering it can be computer trespass which are crimes that she actually did charge in this case as standalone crimes but they also serve the basis for this larger pattern of activity this larger grandiose conspiracy if you will you can think about Rico or racketeering as just a fancy name for a big grandiose conspiracy and that's what she's alleging here and that's what she's charged.

Laura how much overlap is there with special counsel Jack Smith's indictment and some of the people who are named in both be more inclined to flip against the former president. They're significant overlap of facts of witnesses and there's different incentives here in this case you have 19 people including the former president so 18 people not named Trump some of whom are not household names some of who might have different incentives when they're facing five to 20 years potentially in prison on that racketeering charge now does that mean that they're absolutely going to go to prison no but are you willing to gamble on that if you're a lower level election worker in Georgia who sort of comes upon that this scheme and may not have been involved in every aspect of it but you're still wrapped up in it because of the way Rico works you're kind of a held accountable for all the actions of everybody else that provides different levels of incentives to potentially cooperate and based off of our reading of the indictment it might be the case that Fannie was already has some cooperation and are hoping for some more fascinating one of the other things that really stands out about this indictment and you touched on it it mentions actions in other states Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Mexico as well what's the significance of that and Laura does it run the risk of being too broad is it could there be too much in this indictment? Well it's interesting so it's sort of a double edged sword part of the way she charged this case is again using the Georgia racketeering statute you're allowed to sort of bring in the color of what happened the larger pattern to show sort of the common scheme even if those she's not charging things that happen in Arizona she's allowed to bring that in but at the same time that it provides perfect fodder for the Trump legal defense team to say aha she's going way beyond her mandate here and you can be sure that one of the first things they're going to do prison is to try to run into federal court to say Fannie was should not have brought this case it was about things that he did while in office and so therefore a federal case should be made here not in state court in Georgia. And of course this is all happening against the backdrop of the 2020 presidential campaign and Fannie Willis signaling that she wants a fairly quick timeline potentially to bring this case in the next six months is that realistic to expect to see that happen?

You can understand why sort of in her first press conference in the heat of the moment after a very long day of everyone waiting to see what was going to happen she might have had an aggressive posture last night and saying I'm going to take this case in six months with 19 defendants that's not going to happen that's just not possible it's too many defendants there's too many different complexities here this is not a sort of an open and shut easy case it's complex and it's complex for a reason and she has a lot of different avenues and paths to potential conviction but it's not going to be straightforward and I think that that was sort of more of an aspirational hope as opposed to a realistic prediction of six months and we're just big picture obviously we go back to the fact that this is one of four indictments now does the judge factor in that there were three other indictments that were named before this one does that matter at all in terms of which indictment goes first? So the judge isn't bound by the fact that this is now the fourth in terms of the sequence but there is again the level of complexity here and just the realistic aspect of the fact that at least the hush money case in New York has a trial date the class of five documents case has a trial date although we'll see whether that one sticks to and then soon we may find out even next week whether the case also about election interference I know it's a lot to keep track of but the federal case about election interference that one's going to have a trial date set even next week and so given that those might already be on the calendar of course I think the judge is going to take that into account but there's nothing binding them to say just because she went last that means the trial has to go last I think the complexity is what's going to guide the court on this issue but we always appreciate your great legal analysis and we want to say congratulations on being named again today co-host of Peter Alexander we are so excited for you all we can't wait to watch thank you to you as always for all of your support Kristin as always thank you always well you're tremendous and we're excited about it thank you see some more things coming up we're sticking with the story and breaking down why Trump's fourth criminal indictment could be the most complex case yet heading into 2024 our team of legal experts dives in next plus 91 criminal charges for indictments one front runner and just eight days until the first Republican presidential debate how Mr. Trump's relentless legal drama is playing out on the campaign trail that's ahead you're watching me the press now welcome back the Rico Act was designed back in the 70s a prosecutor organized crime and it's arguably best known for its use in mob cases but that's how the day in Fulton County has charged all 19 defendants with violations of Georgia's Rico Act the indictment lays out 161 acts that alleges were part of the racketeering conspiracy including emails phone calls and tweets by former president Trump his allies that they carried out across multiple states joining me now to help us better understand the legal complexities criminal defense attorney Danny Svalos former federal prosecutor in superior court judge Carol Lam both are NBC news legal analysts and with me from Georgia is former Georgia attorney general Sam Olens thanks so much to all of you for being here really appreciate it Carol let me start with you we've been talking about the fact that this is just a massive case it's sweeping 19 defendants 41 counts how do you begin to prosecute a case this big this sweeping well when you have that many defendants that there's some good things about it there's bad things bad thing about it for D.A. Fani Willis is that it really does tell the whole story everybody who is culpable in all of this grand scheme in Georgia is a defendant in this case we're where it's not so much of an advantage is that makes everything very unwieldy it becomes a very unwieldy potential trial even pretrial is very unwieldy because you have a lot of pretrial emotions that Danny can undoubtedly tell you about and it's like a large animal moving underwater it's even hard to schedule a hearing because you have so many defendants and so many attorneys in the case but it does permit her to tell the whole story I think one of the interesting things about this is we haven't seen a lot of evidence of people pleading guilty and cooperating here undoubtedly there are cooperators there are a lot of people referred to in the indictment as individual one individual 19 so obviously there are people cooperating but we haven't seen a lot of guilty pleas being taken and that may happen during the course of the of the pretrial proceedings let me get your take on that because as we were just discussing in the previous segment there has been some crossover between this indictment and the indictment brought by Jack Smith the indictments I should say do you expect some of the code defendants to flip well one of the very interesting things is that Mark Meadows is a defendant in this case he didn't really appear in Jack Smith's indictment he didn't appear as a he certainly didn't appear as a defendant and he doesn't appear to be described as a co-conspirator in the indictment as six others were and I think the prevailing thought in the legal community was well he must be cooperating but to have him appear in finding Willis's indictment as a defendant really really put a big question mark on that because you have to wonder if he's cooperating in that's this case why is he being indicted in finding Willis's case I think that's problematic and I hope it doesn't indicate a lack of coordination between the two prosecutions but but yes that's a question mark with respect to Mark Meadows and with respect to the others I think given the fact that they're looking at potentially at least presumptive five-year minimum mandatory sentence I think there could be some movement on that front with some guilty pleas what is your take on that are you anticipating that we'll see some of the code defendant slip so I think it's very likely that there will be some movement in that regard is folks learn more about the 30 other tidy co-conspirators I think that will add additional pressure and I think that a lack of coordination with Jack Smith today should be expected but one would expect more coordination potentially in the future.

Denny if you were the former president's defense team how worried would you be about that possibility? More worried than he is I mean he's apparently going out he's giving speeches I mean that is the curse of the defense attorney to sit around and fret about a case where when the client especially white collar cases doesn't seem to be nearly as bothered about it as the defense attorney is so really at this stage there's no discovery yet although weirdly enough these cases most of the general public knows what's in a lot of the discovery we've known what's in a lot of this since the January 6 committee hearings we've even arguably known about some of it since the impeachment the second impeachment of Donald Trump so the defense now waits start thinking about motions that you're going to file you talk about the timing of this case let me just give you an example in the New York case Trump tried to but failed to remove the case to federal court based on a law that would allow a federal official to remove a criminal case against him to federal court now we lost that but are required time required an opinion by that federal judge now that same statute appears to possibly allow not just the official but anyone working for him to remove that case so now what happens if you have 19 defendants seeking removal and the judge has to consider all 19 of those removals that's just one thing one motion one example aside from all the other motions that all these defendants may be filing we've been talking a lot about Fannie Willis wanting to go to trial in six months for litigants for the attorneys it often doesn't matter what we want in terms of timing it's up to the court and this court is going to be dealing with a lot of motions to say nothing of the fact that they had a racketeering trial ongoing in the same county that has been in jury selection for eight months not the government's case in chief not the defense case jury selection for eight months. Sam let me ask you the indictment lists 161 overt acts of conspiracy including some tweets by the former president I want to read you a few of them one of them says Georgia hearings now on he mentions a news site amazing people in Georgia got caught cold bringing in massive numbers of ballots and putting them in voting machines great job Ryan Camp the vice president has the power to reject fraudulent chosen electors obviously a lot of misstatements there explain how these actions and how these tweets could feed into this broader case that's being brought against the former president of conspiracy. So first of all the former president attacked our governor earlier today announced their dear press conference Monday in New Jersey and continued the same false attacks post the indictment I think what that shows is the value that was presented earlier in bringing a Rico case it permits you to bring in all these issues to show what was occurring in the big picture rather than the small picture permits violations that technically related to other defendants than the former president.

So by doing this over and over again he's permitting the jury to literally understand why it's a criminal enterprise or why it is considered a criminal enterprise and that's very beneficial to the prosecutor. Carol let me go back to you do you think that there will be additional superseding indictments what are you expecting in that regard and let me ask you about something that we've been talking about throughout the show which is is there a risk in this being so sweeping. I actually don't expect a superseding indictment in this case unless there's a defendant or more defendants to be added it looks like the charges themselves are pretty comprehensive. So in the interest of keeping this case moving as quickly as I can but I don't think it's going to be a quick case to get to trial but in that interest I wouldn't expect a superseding indictment.

I want to be clear about one thing there's there's a count one is a conspiracy slash racket hearing conspiracy charge and the difference between those that kind of charge and the other charges is that a conspiracy is a crime in itself it's the agreement and that is a crime it's the agreement at a step taken in furtherance of that agreement to commit a crime that is the crime and so when Fannie Willis lists all of these what are called overt acts but they're acts in furtherance of that conspiracy and she she includes a number of things that occurred in other states it's all very descriptive but the jury doesn't actually have to find that all of those are proven beyond a reasonable doubt they only have to find in the case of racket hearing two that were part of the pattern and in the case of a regular conspiracy just one act beyond a reasonable doubt. So I think it's beneficial to Fannie Willis to have included all of these acts as a descriptive tool but she actually even though she will put on evidence of all of them she doesn't actually have to have the jury find all of them beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a really important clarifying point Denny let me turn to you you mentioned the jury taught a little bit about how jury selection works in a high profile case like this how challenging is it? We already know that in another Rico case in the same county that it is taking a long time to select a jury against a in a case against a high profile profile defendant but I'm willing to bet that however high profile that defendant is he's not as high profile as this defendant meaning Donald Trump so jury selection is going to be even more difficult when you factor in that the defendant one of them is going to require round the clock secret service detail the entire time and then the other thing perhaps another time in history have we had this much detailed research about jury pools and by that I mean you can look at the results of the 2016 and the 2020 election to get an idea of how jury pools might go lean towards Trump or away from now I caution that election results are not an indicator of whether a juror can put aside their prejudices or their thoughts about particular candidate and sit in judgment of him or her but I mean never before if we had this kind of data about what to expect from a particular jury pool whether that be New York County whether that be Atlanta or if they remove out of Fulton County which is not likely the district encompassing Atlanta the federal district so this is really a fascinating time where you can actually get some real hard data about the kinds of people who may be sitting in the judgment of Donald Trump and his co-defendants.

So let me give you the final thought here when do you think we will see this go to trial? I think the former president's going to do all he can through his counsel and filing many motions to delay that potential trial as we've already stated the federal officer removal statute will probably be the first attempt it will be in a likelihood unsuccessful but it will cause time. I think everyone in the case of the prosecution signed wants it to occur quickly if I were the court I would want it to occur quickly and I think similar to the case in DC the extent to which the president attacks the court or attacks the prosecutor may push the court to seek to have a quicker trial. Well that is an interesting final point we will leave it there this is complicated stuff thank you so much Danny Savalos, Carol Lam and Sam Olens we really appreciate your insights today.

After the break Trump trials and the trail how caucus goers and 2024 candidates are reacting to the latest batch of criminal charges out of Georgia we're live at the Iowa State Fair next you're watching me at the press now stay with us. Welcome back turning out to the latest from the campaign trail as Republican candidates face the fallout of yet another sweeping criminal indictment against their fields front runner Donald Trump, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott and former Arkansas governor Asa Hutchinson campaign to the Iowa State Fair today meeting voters and flipping pork chops it was very a traditional political scene in the primary that's been anything but take a listen to this exchange between my NBC news colleague Ali Vitale and Senator Tim Scott as she pressed him about the new charges and that infamous phone call between Mr. Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger. We all heard that phone call with the former president then president at the time where he said just find me the requisite number of votes that I would need doesn't that feel anti-american does that feel like not what president should do?

Well we should continue to stay as I see it which is that we see the legal system being weaponized against political opponents that is un-American and unacceptable and at the end of the day we need a better system than that and I frankly hope to be the president I say so we have an opportunity to restore confidence and integrity and all of our departments and justice in the government. But that phone call you heard it right? Yes but I mean just draw different conclusions. What time you would do that as president you would look at the amount of votes?

The tenacious Ali Vitale on the ground in Des Moines pressing to get an answer to her question Ali great job as always look you are out there in Iowa you've been there for days you've been talking to Republican voters about these latest charges and that's at the end of the day what matters what are the voters telling you what's the reaction? Well look certainly the candidates aren't changing their tune about the fourth indictment here they have a playbook for this and I think frankly for voters who might not have been impacted or moved by indictments one through three the fourth one is not really changing things for them if you're in the Trump camp you think that these things are for lack of a better phrase Trump's up charges because of the politics of the situation but of course there are Republicans that I've spoken to who wish that their party would move past the former president some of them will engage with the substance of the charges they think that he has a role to play for example in what happened at the Capitol on January 6th they don't like that he continued to try to allegedly overthrow the election results but then there's the slice of voters that I'm really paying attention to and I met one of them here today their Republicans they will vote in the general election for whoever the Republican nominee is even if it's Trump and they don't necessarily buy the charges but that doesn't mean they're not concerned watch. At a certain point even if you don't care about the charges does it give you pause about his ability to win again? Yes they so as far as the charges go like I don't see anything there but as far as someone who is a Republican I don't see it's hard for me to see the lane for victory for him.

And look if there's a break coming Kristen that might be where the break is coming not because Republicans start buying these charges wholesale but because they start thinking that it might be too much baggage for the former president to run and win with. We've only seen a few of his rivals actually try to mount an electability argument certainly they haven't done that using the indictment says the reason why he's unelectable but that could be one of the avenues that if there's any kind of a skid the most support within the conservative ranks of voters that might be where it starts to come out. Yes I think you're absolutely right and the question I think we all have is are we going to start to see these candidates make that argument potentially at the debate now eight days away. What else did Tim Scott tell you Ali and are you getting a sense that he may start sharpening his tone at all?

Clearly not unless he thinks that that phone call was okay and he would do the same thing as president. Look Tim Scott is very good on his talking points this is one of them we've seen now over the course of the last now four indictments but three prior to today we've seen the way that Tim Scott has really told the party line talking about this is an example of a weaponization of government against the former president there's several of his colleagues in this republican field to have said the same thing. I mean you look for example at Florida Governor Ron DeSantis today who basically said that he didn't get a chance to see what this indictment was about not that it was surprising we knew that this one is coming now for months and then you have other people in this field like Vivek Ramaswami who's saying that even though it's a state charge so he can't actually pardon it as president he would do whatever he could to try to put a part in to the former president if he were to be indicted of these latest charges I think though broadly my big question to these candidates and they don't want to talk about this because they would rather say on their own messages is at what point do you go at the former president he is the main rival for all of them dominant in the polls at some point if you want to win you got to go at him but they don't seem willing to do that indictments or not yeah you're so far they have not we'll see what happens at that debate in just eight days Ali Vitale thank you so much great reporting as always up next we're digging deeper into the potential political consequences as US democracy faces its biggest test in generations with a republican front runner facing four criminal indictments the panel's next you're watching the press now welcome back as we mentioned US democracy is facing a huge test as the leading republican candidate for president faces criminal charges for trying to allegedly overturn the 2020 election as our friend Peter Baker with the New York Times points out today he wrote quote the nation once recoiled at presidential candidates caught driving under the influence or swiping lines in his speech without credit now one of the two major parties has not ruled out a front runner charged with conspiring to subvert democracy endangering national security obstructing justice and falsifying records of hush money to a pornographic film star I am joined now with my panel to break this all down Axio senior politician reporter Eugene Scott democratic pollster Cornell Belcher and former Virginia Republican congresswoman Barbara Comstock thanks to all of you for being beer appreciated Eugene let me start with you this is a moment where you have four indictments against the former president sweeping a sweeping indictment that we got overnight what do you make of this moment and what are the political implications for the primary and the general and it seems like the primary is pretty immovable at this point well I'm sure it's been said a million times at this point but it's historical and that's not an exaggeration we never thought we would be in this moment I you one could argue there were some candidates who said that we would eventually find ourselves here in 2016 but many people who backed Donald Trump didn't think it would get to this point and to think that it could even go on and get worse from where we even are right now is a significant concerns of people regardless of their political persuasion Barbara pick up on that point I mean what are you anticipating as you watch this all unfold we've talked about the fact that the debate is in eight days it wouldn't be surprised a surprise if former president Trump tried to counter program that in some way if he doesn't appear but could one of the candidates gain some last-minute traction in the debate what do you think well I think it's important to realize Trump lost in Georgia Georgia used to be a red state they're very popular republicans in Georgia that won governor camp who made a very strong statement against trump today who said this was a fair election trump is wrong when he said he won lieutenant governor um Duncan who testified as the governor camp and brad raffinsburg these are all people who trump attacked who you know camp and raffinsburg are one large last year and they are going to be people who are going to testify against Donald trump so trump has been losing in Georgia he will lose again in 24 even if he wins the primary so republicans need to wake up they are going to lose again in Georgia if trump is the nominee so primary voters are in a bubble where even if they're going to support trump he's going to lose in this red state if they pick trump so I think there was an opportunity you know chris christy who is gaining you know it's gaining ground he's gaining ground because he has a prosecutor who's pointing out this guy's been a loser for seven years um in a general election so there's a real divide here between general elections and if we pick somebody a four times and died at two times impeached seven-year loser Donald trump republicans are going to lose again and that's what brian camp is governor camp in Georgia is trying to warn republicans let me read what he said because barber raises an important point this is what brian camp said today uh he said the 2020 election in georgia was not stolen the future of our country is at stake in 2024 and that must be our focus you know i pick up on the excellent points at the congresswoman's making and to that point camp is someone who actually could compete in the middle of the electorate right and so he's about around state so you have to compete in the middle of the electorate and what he said is spot on and i'm going to push back on the immovable point that you that you made early on because you think that's primary well hold on okay because i worked for a guy who was 40 points behind the national polls too is you might remember his name was brock obama uh however to the congresswoman's point uh you do have to hit the person in front of you uh you're never going to you know there's a prochastic trail which christy is doing you're never going to get in front of the person in front of you and unless unless you actually hit them and you do have to find contrast and watching that very excellent report by alia's always alia great uh the inability for any of them to actually hit this guy and take advantage of this moment says to me they're not serious candidates they're not serious candidates for president let me say with that point because it's a fascinating one former president obama did come from behind he also won iowa jean i mean how make or break is iowa donald trump has a lead in iowa it's actually according to lais poles and not as big as his lead nationally so there's but it's still a double digit lead though yeah and you know he was expected to do well in iowa it's a state that supported him in the past and so it's not a surprise that people are still on the trump train there what is concerning though to cornell's point is that there could be people getting off the trump train if his opponents would point out that what he uh has done is disqualifying but you can't do that when you were trying to get people who love trump to love you as well trump still is leading and the gop and that's what we're seeing happen barber cornell is challenging the immovable argument what do you think does he have a point well our republicans who are donating to trump right now are donating to basically a legal defense fund and next week he is going to be probably not showing up to the debate and you're going to have uh probably just one person chris christy pointing out those things and actually chris christy who just went to um ukraine and was actually arguing on issues and and making you know making a case for you know principled republican policies is going to be there pointing out you know he's gonna be taking on the man and if you're not gonna take on the man you're not gonna be the man or the woman and the candidates who aren't going to do that aren't going to be the man or the woman so i think you know if trump is going to show up it's really an insult to the voters and instead he is going to have you know trump is going to be having to show up in court every day and how can you have a candidate who's going to have to sit you know in front of a jury every day and he's going to be using all the money you're sending to him to pay for a legal defense instead of a candidacy can i build on that point please because because here's the larger problem for i think the wrong candidate and he's going to have his co-defendants turning on so yes but here's a larger problem that against scott showed is that it's a it's a media blackout right can you any of us really tell the american people know what what the republicans who barely won congress this the last time around what have they been working on what have they been doing we have no idea what what is this mcconnell and republicans incentive working on we have no idea it it's all about trump all the time and that hurts not only top and that's about the cast down and you need a candidate who's talking about the future if you're not talking about the future you're going to be losing and that's the problem with trump he's all about the past and himself not about the american people in the future i want to play a fascinating piece of video which is a focus group of voters this is what they are talking about when they were asked about these indictments let's look who can tell me what that this latest indictment is related to in other words what event who can tell me what this is related to without boarding it out five of you okay john take what is it about i'm torn on the georgia or the documents it's one of those two i thought it was about the whole stormy daniel scandal eugene this was an axios focus group um what does it say that these voters have don't really know where we are with all of these indictments and it's not to place any blame on anyone there are a lot of indictments against confusing and that's what one of the gentlemen actually said there were two of these and when they were asked what what is this one about it to be fair this was after the third indictment and before this one but even then they said they're just so many and i'm so overwhelmed and to your point they said what i'm focused on is i want to know whether these candidates stand on foreign policy on abortion rights on the economy that's what i'm listening for and to the cornell's point we're not hearing that very often because so much attention it's on these indictments that these swing voters still can't even explain does it just become background noise barbara well yeah well for trump it's all about him and i think for voters they want to know when you're going to talk about me and next week when at the debate when trump's not even there to talk about voters i think that's going to be a problem and trumps going to start losing um you know altitude and i think that's going to be a problem for him and i think there's going to be an opening here and i think there's going to be an opportunity for candidate who's going to take on trump and be able to articulate a message for republican future and republican vision corona very quickly do you think that trump's going to start to lose altitude um not if they don't hit him not if they don't attack him by the way barbara trump i would not show as barbara's point is that christy has got to be it's got to be it's got to be the ones within striking distance of him taking taking him on to get they get ahead of him barbara trump i would not show up at that debate at the debate because he has very little upside that my sources are signaling that it's very unlikely great conversation this was fantastic hugeine scott cornell belcher and barbara cum stuff we really appreciate it thank you all still a comprehensive by an under scrutiny addressing those historic malle wildfires and weighing a visit to the disaster zone we're live in hawaii next you're watching at the press now we're gonna coordinate continue coordinate relentlessly with the people on the ground to make sure the critical work continue in the meantime we always hear this reason i've done so many disasters in my career it's almost hollow our prayers our thoughts and prayers with the people why they're not just our prayers every asset every asset they need we'll be there for them and we will be there in malle as long as it takes as long as they can welcome back president biden spoke this afternoon on the federal response to the tragic wildfires on malle pledging to visit the area as soon as possible the remarks come amid scrutiny from reporters and criticism from republicans that the president only addressed the devastation extensively one other time since the fires swept their malle it's been one week since the deadly wildfires work out there and as of last night ninety nine people are confirmed to have died many more still unaccounted for search and recovery efforts are ongoing and officials say the efforts have been slow without a caution for a rescue or safety and out of respect for the dead but efforts are speeding up with federal assistance malle's police chief emphasized the gravity of the task in a press conference late last night look it's not just ash on your clothing when you take it off it's our loved ones that's the reverence shilling words there from the police chief emisees dina griffin is near the airport of malle for us dana thank you for joining us it has been one week since those fires broke out now what is the very latest that you're seeing on the ground there president afternoon we know that right now about twenty five percent of that disaster zone has been searched we are told by governor josh green that they hope to have eighty five percent complete by the week and they are still finding bodies including the bodies of children we've heard from several residents that kids were home from school that day and we've heard harrowing stories of neighbors rushing in to save those kids he even talked about a family of four that was found together inside of a car so this is a very methodical process to go car by car house by house block by block to make sure that they are not um missing anyone but it will likely take days if not weeks to get through this uh they're also very concerned about some toxic chemicals uh benzene asbestos that could be in the air and in the soil so that's a part of why they're not letting people back in that area christen it's just so incredibly difficult and you're right that reporting that some of the kids were home from school because the winds were so heavy that day you are expecting to learn more information publicly about the victims of the fire later today what are you expecting yeah we're expecting to hear at least the names of three people that have been identified this is a very tough situation because a lot of these bodies have been burned beyond recognition that's why so many relatives have given DNA samples so that they can determine who the missing people are and correctly identify them we're also hearing reports that a lot of people were found huddled together or in cars together and some of these bodies are very delicate so they want to make sure they're getting the proper identification and make sure that they have they're doing this with a sense of dignity for a lot of these victims because that sense didn't be so important right now and just very quickly i know you're there talking to people what do people say they need most right now housing is still a tricky subject for a lot of people uh we know that hundreds have been placed in hotel rooms there's going to be about a thousand Airbnb rooms also made available we've also spoken to the pastor here at king's cathedral and now we they own the property across the street they are working on a plan to build what they call temporary long-term housing possibly small homes to help put some of their people there as well christen all right dana griffin will please do continue to keep us updated on any developments as you get that my note is just a devastating devastating time there and now we appreciate all of your great reporting thank you so much and thank you for being with us this hour chuck is back tomorrow with more meet the press now mbc news now coverage continues with holly jackson right now i'm craig melph tears cheers cheers i've always been a glass half vote kind of guy and now i'm talking to some people who look at the world that way too some really fascinating folks who shared their defining moments their triumphs challenged their stories are fine and are candid so i hope you'll join me each week who knows you might just come away with your own glass apple search glass apple with craig melphin from today on youtube and whatever you get to podcast