Meet the Press NOW — August 17

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It can help strengthen and protect. Your voice from injury. See healthy living differently with manualife. Visit manualife.ca If it's Thursday, the White House Congress, even the Supreme Court are all facing mounting pressure as the former president's legal crises are about to collide with the 2024 election.

I mean, new threats to grand jurors and a judge connected to two of Trump's cases. Speaking of rising tensions, we have them in a Hawaii now where the cause and response to the historic wildfire is under heavy scrutiny. The death toll continues to rise now at 1-1. Much of the disaster area still needs to be searched.

And the migrant crisis showdown intensifies in New York. It's Democrat versus Democrat. The governor and the mayor trading blame for a humanitarian emergency as the city struggles to accommodate more than 100,000 asylum seekers. Welcome to Meet the Press now.

I'm Chuck Todd reporting from Washington, where our already stressed out and fraying political system is about to be tested like never before, with criminal trials, potential government shutdowns, impeachments, and likely disputed election results. At some point, you assume something's got to give. You just don't know what the something will be or when it will be. And the destabilizing force behind much of this is of course Donald Trump.

Today, by the way, is the deadline for the former president and current Republican presidential front-runner to have his legal team file their preferred trial date tied to the special counsel's federal charges that Mr. Trump tried to overturn the 2020 election and exploit the January 6th riot. We already know that the Department of Justice is proposed January 2nd. That would of course kick off a year chock full of potential trials, both criminal and civil, for the four-time and died of former president.

Of course, the one trial we're pretty certain does take place before November 2024 is the one here in D.C. And the legal calendar is completely now intertwined with the primary calendar, where Trump is only becoming further entrenched in the affirmative. Meanwhile, the fight over the trial's timeline comes up in new threats of violence tied to both this case and the one in Georgia. A Texas woman was charged with threatening the federal judge overseeing the 2020 election case here in Washington, leaving a slur and expilative written voicemail intended for a judge at Chukton.

And then Trump supporters docked members of the grand jury that indicted the former president and Georgia's election racketeering case. Memo to the state of Georgia, why is it legal? Why do you have those names published? Why would you do that?

How often does grand jurors have to indict gang members? But the potential for unprecedented strain on the system goes beyond Trump's legal troubles. It extends across every branch of government. Let's not forget when Congress returns from resets next month, they are staring at a potential of a government shutdown.

And Republicans are inching towards an impeachment inquiry into Biden as his son faces his own special counsel investigation tied to his business dealing. And President Biden faces his own special counsel investigation tied to classified documents that were found in his office before he became president. Oh, and we could yet see another monumental Supreme Court ruling on the issue of abortion from into the mix with the nation's high school boys to consider access to a common abortion drug. So consider all of this injects more chaos into an election year that was already shaping up to be not a good one with a rematch between two deeply unpopular candidates as voter dissatisfaction with the direction of this country remains downright anemic.

And frankly, it's understandable. A new Q&A P.I.P. pollsters, 86% are very or somewhat worried about the system of democracy being able to function here in the United States. 86% is near unanimous.

And 74% say the country is on the wrong track according to another poll. Given the pressure building over the last six years, perhaps those numbers shouldn't be so surprised because consider since Trump got elected, right? We've had six special counsel investigations, including the four currently underway. Two government shutdowns, another one is lending.

Two impeachment trials, right of another. Let's not forget the credit downgrade last month. And oh, one insurrection, a very literal assault on the civil of our democracy. All of this combined with the promise of more uncertainty ahead, leads us with an uncomfortable but necessary question.

Can our system and can we handle it? Yesterday, we asked that we have the leaders to meet this moment. And right now, it doesn't feel as if any of the elected leaders want to meet this moment. So the question is, are we going to survive this moment?

From where I'm joined by Garrett Hakey's in Atlanta, also with me as NBC's Ryan Noble's on Capitol Hill and our Justice correspondent, Ryan Riley. Garrett, let me start with you. You're in Atlanta. We're sort of, we know that these folks have to get a ring at some point here.

A lot of people are speculating that Donald Trump will use his arraignment as a way to send a message here to perhaps his campaign, the field, whatever he's trying to do. What are you hearing in your report? Well, Chuck, everybody's taking their sweet time when it comes to this Georgia case. It's unlike what we saw in some of the earlier arraignments where the fact that we knew that the indictment was coming, there was kind of a plan in a box ready to go for Donald Trump to kind of quickly come and be arraigned after he was indicted and try to turn it into a fundraising opportunity for his campaign.

I think that's still the goal here for the Trump team to try to figure out how to maximize their political gain off of their legal challenges here. It's just a question of how and when to best do that. There's a lot of ideas getting kicked around about whether to time this either before, during or after the debate next week. There's also the fact that the Georgia process is different from these federal processes.

And while he would come and surrender next week, he wouldn't be formally arraigned until early September. It's being done at a county jail that's not the same as the courthouse site behind me. There's just a lot of unanswered questions on the legal logistics that have to be answered as well as kind of from their perspective, like how do we maximally get pumped the most political value out of this? And it's best I'm able to tell and I've been calling people all day long since Monday night when it's broke.

It just haven't decided the answer to any of those things yet. And do you have any, I guess we'll know soon enough, but do we have any clue to what what time what month a day they're going to ask for for the Jack Smith federal trial? Well, look, I mean Donald Trump this morning on truth social said he doesn't think any of these should start until after the 2024 election is over. His lawyer John Laro has said that he thinks, you know, the Justice Department had two and a half years to investigate.

They should get two and a half years to do discovery. I don't think any serious person thinks it's going to be two and a half years until this trial starts or even that they would propose that in front of a federal judge. But make no mistake, a bit longer the delay the better. And I don't think they see any downside of making a big ask here, even if they know that the trial that's going to end up somewhere in the middle.

Look, I'm going to ask you to put the other hat you wear, you cover Capitol Hill. I know both you and Ryan do, of course. I know we've heard some happy talk about a continuing resolution. That just simply tells us we won't have the government shut down in September or October.

What's your sense here? Is he punting? Is McCarthy punting this to give the impeachment stuff room? How does impeachment play with different government funding?

How much of this is processed tactics versus actual sort of combustible issues he's got to deal with in his own conference? I think McCarthy and Trump have actually a similar style when it comes to trying to manage their politics. And that is to handle the crisis right in front of them when they can and deal with everything else later. There's not a ton of long term planning that goes on for either of these actors.

And I think that's the case here with McCarthy. He doesn't have the votes for the vast majority of the spending bills to pass something long term. He doesn't have an answer on impeachment, which is moderates don't want. This seems like the easiest solution, but he's already getting pushed back from some fiscal hawks.

I'm like Chip Roy type folks already said, you know, continuing resolution at these spending levels isn't what he signed up for. And he's going to fight that. Look, the impeachment part of this is definitely caught up in this. The right flank, and really by that I don't mean like traditional small-seat conservatives.

I mean, the most pro-Trump members of this caucus want some blood here and whether that comes in the form of an impeachment of a lower level, you know, figure whether it comes in the form of an impeachment inquiry for Biden or whether it comes in the form of subpoenaing, you know, records of Jack Smith, you know, communication or trying to investigate the investigators here in Atlanta. They've got to find something to modify these people that McCarthy and his leadership team do. And I don't think they have a solution to that yet. So again, it's kind of like the NCAA tournament chuck.

It's surviving advance here politically for McCarthy just as much as it has been for Trump. Jared, I appreciate you. Save your sports metaphors for when you have to do a cross-talk with me. Much appreciated.

Jared, stick around here. I hear you. I hear you. Ryan, let me move to you.

And I know you're Capitol Hill. Great to hear too, but you left Capitol Hill to check out John Taster, the Red State Democrat, running for reelection. And I want to talk about the bigger picture here. How does he respond to, and I know you had this guy, like we are facing something this country's never, hasn't faced arguably since the 1850s.

And there is this sense of people are just sort of going about their normal business just as we wonder what's going on here. How does he think he should meet the moment? It's a great question, Chuck. And what I was most struck by in our conversation with John Taster, and I think this happens often when we get to leave the D.C.

bubble and meet these senators where they are most comfortable in their home states, is how far removed he feels his constituents are from the daily back and forth of the drama that's taking place inside D.C. And then within the presidential campaign, the biggest problem for John Taster is if his race in Montana becomes a nationalized race, if it becomes all about Donald Trump and Joe Biden, then he's probably in trouble because Donald Trump won this state very easily in 2020. Yes, he does. He absolutely understands that a lot of the same people that voted for him in 2020 voted for Donald Trump as well.

And what he told me is that he's not going to run a race any differently than the one he ran when he initially ran for the state legislature several decades ago. That it's going to be a focus on his deep ties to the state. He says that he has an inherent advantage that he's lived in Montana his entire life. He thinks that resonates with the voters there beyond the national politics, but there's no doubt that he understands that there's these other big issues that are looming over this race.

He's going to have to try and find a way to fight through. Well, one of those issues is Joe Biden, and there's different ways Joe Biden's could become an issue for him. Obviously, he's more worried about the caricature of Joe Biden becoming an issue for him, arguably, perhaps that's age being the biggest factor there. What's his sense?

Well, it's interesting because this came up in our conversation when I was asking broadly about the age of elected leaders in general. And he acknowledged that he didn't mention them by name, but very specific members of the United States Senate deteriorate to the point where he was very concerned about them and made clear that they were no longer up to the job. But when I asked about the president himself, he had a much different tact despite the fact that the president is in his 80s. Listen to how he described his view of Joe Biden.

Joe Biden, when I've been around him, and that's not every day when I've been around him, when I've seen him on the news, he's absolutely absolutely upset with it. And he's got his recall, his cognitive ability, whatever you want to call it, I want to document her for him. But he's fine. And he's doing a good job.

I think folks are making a bigger deal out of it than it is. But we'll see what I'm like at 82. That'll be run for president. But again, it gets back to your point.

This is up to the vote. Those voters need to deal with it. But to your earlier point, Chuck, about how this interplays with Joe Biden and his reelection, the National Republican Senate Campaign Committee, the campaign arm already out pushing our interview with John Tester saying nice things about Joe Biden as an example of how he is no longer in touch with the voters of Montana. So this is a big issue for him.

Hey, look, I know I'm going along with you guys very quickly. Kirsten Cinnamah is out there trying to get Democrats to compromise with Tommy Tupper. But what does a compromise look like? And is that going anywhere in order to get him to drop his blocking of every military promotion in the Pentagon?

Yeah, I'd love to answer that question. Kirsten Cinnamah won't answer that question to us. We'll find out about this because our colleagues, Sahel Kapoor and Ellen Smith got a secret recording of a conversation she had with the Chamber of Commerce. But I don't know where the common ground here is on this.

Both sides seem pretty entrenched in their positions. Tupperville's made it clear that there's no political upside to him back and down from this fight. And there's really no other way around it in terms of the abortion issue and the Department of Defense. So this is a stalemate that I think is going to continue for quite some time.

By the way, Tommy Tupperwell's right there. The incentive structure in America is broken to accomplish so. The incentive structure in America is to stand your ground and do nothing. It there is political reward in that.

That's for sure. Let me move over to our other Ryan here, Ryan Riley, at the Justice Department. And Ryan, before I get into the specifics of what we can expect on the trial date back and forth here on the on the Jack Smith case, what's morale like in the Justice building right now? I mean, this is an intense period.

It feels like the Justice Department's entire reputation is on trial during the 2024 campaign. Do the careerist feel that? You know, a moment I think about a lot is that a moment from Airplane where they Leslie Nielsen comes in and says, no pressure, you know, we're all counting on you, right? I mean, a lot of the country is dependent upon the Justice Department right now.

It is very strange because, you know, the Justice Department has been something I've covered my entire career. And it's always sort of one of those steps removed from politics. But right now, it is that core political story. You know, they're not in control of everything that's going on.

Obviously, the Fannie Willis case is much different. But, you know, a lot does depend on this, when this trial data set, in this case, the simplest fast-track case you can get through, the one that Jack Smith is handling with Donald Trump alone, is really a really important date for when that gets set. Trump is going to be able to make his proposal. He hasn't told midnight tonight.

So expect, you know, probably 1159 is where we'll find a filing for when they suggest then, you know, don't be surprised when they suggest probably something pretty late in the game, you know, as long back as they can reasonably delay it. I think obviously, Trump would want it after the election. I don't know if his lawyers think maybe pull it back a little bit and give something that at least looks reasonable. But, you know, and then you're in the middle of the campaign.

So, I think there's just a huge difference between a trial that gets set in early in the year next year before a lot of primary voters go to the polls and something that's much later in the game, when sort of everything really is set in stone in terms of who is the Republican nominee. Look, I know the U.S. marshals are the ones that help protect judges when they're under threat in particular these days, but I'm curious with the threat against Judge Chutkin. She seemed indicative.

She thought the defense was violating the spirit of what they were trying to do with witness tampering or discovery stuff, that she'd simply move the trial data. Is that how you would expect her to respond to if these threats continue? What's so fascinating about this timeline now is obviously we knew she knew about this threat before we did, right? And this arrest actually took place the very day that she was holding this hearing where she made those comments about the need to speed this up.

And she made those comments about even generic comments that the president might make that don't necessarily seem to be saying, hey, go after this person, or aren't as explicit as something that would really just go over the line, can affect the trial date here. And I think that really is the best hook that she has because, obviously, she can set that trial date. And there's very little that Donald Trump's team can do when that trial date is set. So, everything, every comment that the president makes right now or the former president makes rather is going to be something that's going to cause him issues down the line.

Karatek, Ryan Nobles, Ryan Riley. You guys are on standby to figure out how we're going to see if all of our guardrails can hold up in 2024. We shall see. Thank you guys for coming up.

We're going to dig deeper into what all this uncertainty and stress and political system means for the voters heading into 2024. But first I'm going to talk to one of the Republican presidential candidates. They'll try to qualify for their base stage. It's the city of Miami, Mayor Francis Juarez.

He'll be here to talk about the future of his campaign and from Donald Trump. You're watching the president. Beatboxing actually has hidden health benefits. It can help strengthen and protect your voice from injury.

See healthy living differently with Manuelife. Visit manuelife.ca slash health. Welcome back with lesson one week to go until the first Republican presidential debate in Milwaukee. Eight candidates have reached the RNC mandated donor and polling thresholds to qualify for the base stage.

You can see them on your screen here. Former president Trump has not committed to showing up. But NBC News confirms he will be sending some top surrogates to Wisconsin to spin. Like we already kind of know he's not coming.

Qualifying for the debate closes on Monday night. And as of right now, former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, former Texas Congressman Will Hurd and Miami Mayor Francis Juarez are on the outside looking in. Hutchinson is short of the required $40,000. Juarez and Hurd have not yet reached 1% in enough polls.

Additionally, Hurd says he will not sign the RNC's loyalty pledge. Of course, Donald Trump has also said he's not going to sign the loyalty pledge. We'll see how that goes. I mean, I was one of the three candidates trying to qualify for this debate as the Republican mayor of the city of Miami Francis Juarez.

Welcome to the show. Good to see you. Oh, thanks for having me Chuck. I appreciate it.

Before I get to the debate stage and some of the technical questions about which polls qualify in all of this business, I took a look at your last app, EC report, and you've it did not list a single campaign staffer on your campaign. I know you have a super PAC that does a lot of the heavy lifting financially. Do you have any paid campaign staffers on your campaign for president on Juarez for president? Now we do it.

And we'll be reporting that in the next report. We have brought on some campaign staffers and yes, we will have that. But we've been very lean and mean. We haven't had to fire any campaign staffers.

I can tell you that much. And I know some campaigns have got to fire up to 50% of their campaign staffers. So we're certainly a candidacy that has been someone insurgent and growing, you know, we certainly don't want to peak too soon, right? We're we're we're we're going to stay director.

We do not. We do not at this point. I want to stay directly because we're working on this campaign in an incremental fashion. Our next goal has been to make the debate stage, which we believe we will make.

And that would be my first opportunity to really introduce myself to the country. The first opportunity I had to introduce myself to Iowa was only a couple of weeks ago. I've only been in the race, as you know, for a couple of months. And so I was able to do that at the Lincoln Day dinner, a GOP dinner just a few weeks ago.

I think people were surprised by someone who has a message of unification, who's a mayor, who gets things done, who was elected by 85% elected by 80% and has, you know, focused on a prosperity agenda for the country, not some of the divisiveness that we're seeing today out of Washington, you know, every single day really. You brought up your your time as mayor and you're currently mayor, but look, I think a lot of people who didn't look, I full disclosure, you may know this, I grew up in, my address is Miami, Florida, but I didn't grow up in the city of Miami. I grew up in unincorporated Miami-Dade County. It was Dade County then, in Kendall, east of the turnpike, as I always like to say.

But it's a part-time job. And I'm curious why you treat it like a part-time job. I want to show all the different associations you have. Right now, you're a member of a law firm, I think the Miami Herald has here, you're an active lawyer at Quinn Emanuel law firm, your senior operating partner at DeGrosa Capital, you're a board member of Emerge Americas, a consultant for location ventures, a board member of Palmetto Solar, a strategic advisor to Redivider Blockchain, and the mayor of the city of Miami.

How much time do you spend as mayor of the city of Miami versus the other jobs? You know, I spent 100% of my time being the mayor of Miami, 100% of my time being a father, 100% of my time on my private sector activities. And I can tell you the voters that I talk to are very, very much appreciative of the fact that as a candidate, you're tethered to the private sector. One of the things that you need about my candidacy is if you notice the other candidates that either have total private sector experience, and that's the only experience they have, or some that have been their entirety in the public sector and are untethered to the private sector.

And that shapes their policies, that shapes their rhetoric, and oftentimes creates scenarios that are, my opinion, anti-business. I think the fact that I'm a candidate that has both. And let me tell you this thing as a part-time mayor. You know, it may be part-time in terms of some of the people when people describe it.

But when you're running a billion and a half dollar company with 4,500 employees, four labor unions, and right before I came to New Hampshire, I had to receive a phone call about one of my police officers being pinned against a car and lost her arm from the elbow down, and being in a hospital, in a public hospital, and having to hear the doctors share that story with her family. There's something part-time about that. It's something that you live with every single day. Are you going to, if you were the nominee for president, would you disclose every single company that paid you while you were, while you've been mayor of Miami?

Because you can hear and see that you're getting these jobs because they want you, and not your title as mayor of Miami. Yes, absolutely. And by the way, I'll go a step further than that. Actually, you have to file federal FEC report while we disclose and all that.

So, every income that you receive, that's over, I want to say is very low threshold, like $5,000. You have to disclose. So, the federal FEC disclosures are very comprehensive, and absolutely, I have to file them and will, and that'll disclose all of them. I also intend at the appropriate moments of to declare my income taxes as most presidential candidates have done throughout the history of most.

You were right about most. Are you going to release all of them? I mean, how far do you want me to go back as far as all the candidates do? I won't do anything that would be special in any way.

What should voters take away from the fact that your net worth went up so much while you've been mayor of Miami? Is it a coincidence? I think this should take away the fact that I'm a successful private sector citizen, the fact that I'm 45 years old. I've been in public service since I was 32, and I've been working every single year since I began.

And of course, I'm allowed to do that. It is legal. I do want to look at fairness. I'm doing the count, at least that's what I do.

It's perfectly legal. Right. There's stuff that trust me, growing up, I've got a lot of us wondered, wow, that works that way. And City of Miami is actually a little tougher than some of the other cities within the county.

And there are very strict disclosures that you have to file as well as a public official. It's very intrusive, and I follow all the rules. If I am proud of my private sector, because I think it's something that voters actually look favorably upon in the discussion. Let me ask you about another interesting aspect of your political journey here to this campaign for president.

You make it clear you didn't vote for Donald Trump in 16, and you never said who you vote, whether you did vote for him or not in 2020. And now you're a big sort of defender of Donald Trump. What changed? No, look, I didn't vote for him in 16 or in 20.

I wrote in a Republican candidate in 16, and I wrote a Republican candidate in 20. The person who I thought at that moment was best to leave the country. I think what happens is, you know, in interviews that you do, oftentimes, and I say this respectfully, the moderators want to talk about another candidate versus your own candidacy, your own ideas for the future of the country. And so I'm responding to those.

And I am very worried, and part of the reason why I'm running for president is because I'm worried about Joe Biden's America, right? I'm worried about Bidenomics. I'm worried about, you know, a candidate that calls Hispanics, you know, an ethnic group that I'm a part of, you know, Latinx, or says that they're as unique as San Antonio Tacos, right? For me, as a Hispanic Republican candidate for president, I want to win Hispanics, which are 20% of the country, 60 million Americans.

By the way, our 20% undecided. And as you know, Chuck, the last two presidential elections have been decided by less than 100,000 votes. If a candidate can win Hispanics, they can win the president's, particularly Republican, as a mayor, I've also demonstrated an ability to change an urban area, like my community was plus 30 for Hillary, a year before I got elected by 85%. And the year after I got reelected, went plus 10 for the Republicans, that is a 40 point swing.

I think we can do that across America and win urban areas. And I also think we can win young voters, who the Republican Party lost to Joe Biden by 26. I don't think the president, with all due respect, is a, you know, a paragon of youth and vigor, and someone that can peel away young voters from a generational candidacy, like mine, that has demonstrated an ability to create hyping jobs in my community. We're number one.

I understand your argument against Joe Biden, but you've got to get through Donald Trump first. Is Donald Trump still qualified to be president after his behavior on January 6? No, you said something in your segment that, you know, candidates need to meet the moment, and at the end, you said something to the effect of that, the voters are the ones that are going to have to step up. The voters are the ones that make this decision.

They're the ones that have rewarded him over the last few indictments. What I'm trying to do is they're doing that. Well, you have to ask them, but I can tell you this, I've been New Hampshire for the last two days. Not one voter has mentioned the indictments to me.

But let me tell you what I talked to them about as a threshold matter. I tell them, do you want to repeat of the 2020 election? And the answer almost invariably is no. And then I say, well, we're heading in that direction.

And so what I'm trying to do is give people a different personality, a different policies, and a different profile that can win the, frankly, win not only landslide electoral college vote, but can also win the popular vote for Republicans, which I don't think we've done since the late 1980s. George Bush didn't know for, but you're right. It was once since then. Very quickly, if you don't make the debate stage, you've been open.

You said, Hey, if you can't get on the debate stage, you probably ought to, you probably ought to drop the campaign. Are you going to live by those words? I will, but I'm going to make the debate stage. I can tell you that.

I feel very confident about it. We'll hopefully be making a big announcement on it soon when we get to the threshold, but I feel very confident about it. And by the way, I think that once the American public gets to know me, knows who I am, knows who I'm about. I'll make the next debate stage, which is an even higher threshold.

I think it's a 3% threshold. So it's, you know, you have to grow from that opportunity. It's imperative on there as one of the eight candidates I'm excited about being on there, and I'm preparing to be on there. Are you going to be there?

No matter what? Or if you don't, if they tell you, you didn't make it, you're not shown up. Let's put it this way. I've already bought my tickets and booked my hotel room, but I feel confident that we will make it and that we'll be making an announcement to that affection.

I'm our Suarez. We'll see. We'll be looking to see Lionel Messi shows up with you. I think he's going to be tight that he blazer is it coming up now?

He has his next game. So we're going to win that championship. All that is is more money for Apple TV plus. Mayor for Suarez.

And for Miami's ecosystem. There you go. There's Suarez. Thanks for coming on and sharing your views.

Stay from the trail. Thank you so much. Up next, criminal trials, government shutdowns, impeachments, insurrection, too deeply unpopular front runs. How much more can our system take?

And voters, handles next. You're watching me the president. Welcome back as we mentioned, the cumulative chaos from the last six years has put an inordinate amount of pressure on our system of government. Special counsel investigations, government shutdowns, impeachments, damage from Washington correspondent for the Atlanta general constitution, principal Alex, former senior advisor of the Biden Harris 2020 campaign, Republican strategist, former communications director for the RNC are here for this title.

Let me put up our full screen since 2017 to six special counsel investigations to government shutdowns, ones on the way to impeachment trials, one might be on the way, one credit downgrade, one insurrection. It, you know, every day we have this meaning right now, like, is anybody else here like worried? And, you know, yesterday we focused on the fact that the elected leadership just seems to be like, it's up to the voters here. And yet we're wondering, is everybody pick up a show?

That's, I mean, it's such a deep question because I think that our media landscape is so polarized. Social media, we haven't figured out how to address the impact of social media in that further polarization. Quite frankly, there's a political industrial complex, so to speak, that feeds off of the polarization. And so there are a lot of people who are invested in not creating kind of the creating avenues for people to work together and cross the aisle.

Now, preserving our democracy, I think that there are Republicans and Democrats who are interested in preserving our democracy. But the question is, what are they willing to do for that? We saw, for example, after January 6th, the initial reaction was a lot of bipartisan outrage. But once former President Trump kind of took his stance of, you know, downplaying January 6th, it became evident that he may have had a role.

We saw Republicans change their change what they were saying about January 6th, change their tone. And so that is where things get rocky. And quite frankly, there's not an easy answer. Doug, you know, on a total aside, in the earlier conversation, I was talking about Brian Nobles, we were quickly talking about the whole Tommy Toperville thing he's doing.

And he goes, you know, Tommy Toperville tells me he has no incentive to drop this. And it's like, actually, he's absolutely right. That's the problem. He's not getting punished.

He's getting rewarded for this obstruction. Trust me, there's going to be copycatters. They already have been. He's not getting new to this thing.

He's just more stubborn. And what we see is this is not a partisan issue, because this happens within the parties. Now, I remember the 2013 shutdown and a press release that went out from Ted Cruz and Mike Lee urging Republicans to hold vermin, jump off the cliff. And as soon as we did, they put out a statement that says, congratulations.

Now, there's something we can do. And the outrage that that brought on the House for the otherwise mild matter, Captain Morris Rogers is waving that press release in front of other members' faces. This is not a Republican versus Democrat issue. There is that.

This is Democrat versus Democrat and Republican versus Republican. Republicans in the center are not happy with Tommy Toperville right now. Yeah. And but there's no way, including Katie Brecht, but it goes.

And I guess, and of course, Paul, how would you look at this? Is this is the information ecosystem that makes it impossible to do this? Yeah, I think that's part of it. Everyone wants to blame somebody else.

Yeah, politicians want to blame us. And I always want to sit there and say we're only as good as you guys being sources. I mean, part of it is accountability, right? And this is what I loved about your earlier segment on democracy.

It is what's at stake right now in this election. And we saw voters turn out in record numbers in the last midterm election with democracy as a major theme. This is what I appreciated about President Biden's launch of this campaign, which is really about freedom, right? What's more American than fighting for freedom?

And juxtapose that with Donald Trump and Republican candidates and what they're trying to do, right? I think back to the tiki torch carrying white supremacists in Charlottesville, the same people that Donald Trump called very fine people, the ones that try to sack the Capitol across the street, the same ones that are not trying to ban books, the same ones that are attacking fundamental rights like abortion rights. So that really is about our democracy and our freedoms. And I think we've got to extinguish what's happening on the right in our Donald Trump Senate.

But let me ask you this. What's your theory? Is it why Joe Biden seems to also be blamed for this problem? Voters are blaming.

I'm not saying I'm not both sizing it here. The voters are footing some of the blame. Why do you think they don't give them credit for trying fixes? I think part of it is we're just starting to pay attention, right, in terms of this election.

People are tired of cycle after cycle and the news that you've just described and all the challenges we've got in this country, right? But once they started paying attention, which will start happening very soon because the Republican debates that are coming up, the ads will start. And what needs to happen is we need an opponent on the Democratic side. Once you have an opponent, it'll focus voters, it'll focus our attention.

And I think that's when you'll see voters starting to give Joe Biden the credit he deserves for rebuilding our economy for 13 million new jobs for the first gun safety legislation in 30 years and for fighting for abortion rights. You'll start seeing that. It's enough. I don't think it's enough because there are so many other factors at play.

Number one, there are the tangible factors of gas prices going up. Things are expensive. People, for whatever reason, they might say, that mortgage interest rate. You wonder why people feel like they're not feeling this economy because they can't do a big purchase right now.

They're managing their, yes, they're annoyed at groceries or more expensive, but the real issue is they can't do a big purchase. So in President Biden for better for worse, whoever's president is going to get blamed for those kinds of things. But I also still go back to the fact that people are in echo chambers. So they're not always getting the best information.

They're being reinforced, bad information. They're being reinforced, very polarized information. They fall down a rabbit hole on TikTok or YouTube, and that doesn't help. So some of it is real forces at hand, but some of it, again, are these structures in place and how people get their information that isn't always conducive to the truth or fact.

I can't believe I'm going to say this because I have lots of pros and cons about this person. But it's a part of me that would like an errance, Biden to attempt an errance sort in moment. I've never seen West Wing. I'm not a fan of it, not because I know people love it, but because I lived it and it wasn't right.

So that was my issue. But what I mean is, why isn't Joe Biden touring the country holding town halls about the importance of democracy? And I say this, I know that sounds like I said, it's an errance-orcan-esque idea. But we kind of need a little bit of this.

Well, here's why. Everything that you listed on the screen are the larger, impending things that are very, very important that no one outside of Washington, D.C. is talking about. They're talking about big purchases, little purchases.

They're talking about things that are affecting their day-to-day lives, what they talk to, their spouse or significant others, or worry about on their own when they're at a kitchen table. And that's what's going to continue. That's why Joe Biden doesn't get credit from anybody on anything. They look at what's going on day-to-day, and they think it's really bad.

They don't have time to think about all these big, impending things that are very serious and looming. Of course, Mike has to go back to this. I mean, last year did seem to be feeling as if he had that. In fact, going against the advice of some of the party that said, you should be talking about the economy.

And he said, no, democracy. And he's got to spend right about this. And yet, this calendar year, he's been much more quiet on his issue. Well, I think what you're starting to see is the vice president is out there much more than she has been in the past, whether it's on abortion, whether it's on democracy, core freedoms.

And I think she's a perfect spokesperson to be out there right now talking about this. The president has to do what the president has to do, which is make sure that the country is strong, make sure that the world is united against Putin and the war and Ukraine. But as you know, I was nervous about democracy. They're very nervous about it.

And also very proud, I think, at looking at the United States and the leadership of this president. And so that gives me great hope. And I think it turns out. And also, I think we know there have been great things that President Biden has done, perceivably the economic development things that he'll say is great, I'll say.

Perhaps in a decade, well, in a decade, nobody appreciated the eyes and hour interstates that go after eyes and hour died. But I will say, but also in real time, we can't ignore that there's a capacity issue with our president. He's 80 years old. And we know that sometimes extemporaneous speaking or not his strong point.

Sometimes he gets all the message. I think that perhaps some of the concern in America, in the nation is whether our current president can meet this moment to preserve our democracy. Very quickly. The Ronda Sanchez debate, Emily.

What a perfect response from Brian Jones. I saw that. I saw the Christmas one sentence, you know, just speaking of truth. But if you're a v-bake right now, are you just smiling here to hear?

Best thing. Best thing for him. It's the best thing for him. It's also great for Donald Trump, because Donald Trump is actually his native bet.

It says nobody really is going to take me on. You see it from Chris Christie. You might see it from Ace of Hutchinson, but you won't see it on Wednesday. And otherwise, what happens is anytime there's a debate, not only does it re-enforce Trump's core argument that the system is rigged, even though it's not, his opponents reinforce his own messaging form.

And Ronda Sanchez has shown we'll do that in perpetuity. Well, does it get to the silliness of the Super PAC campaign? I mean, I'm sorry, if people like, it was, they were trying to send a memo without looking like they were coordinating it. Yeah, it's really sort of, I've never seen anything quite like it.

Well, Ronda Sanchez can't use those pieces of advice now, can it would take a crystal ball of a tug. Thank you. After the break, tensions and distrust on the rise of white, where residents and survivors are struggling to rebuild their lives in the aftermath of the deadly and historic wildfire. You're watching the President.

Welcome back. At least 111 people are now confirmed dead in the devastating wildfire that ripped from how he last week last night officials released the identities of three more victims. And it brings the total of publicly identified dead by the way to just five. That's how hard it is to identify the dead right now.

Thousands of buildings on Maui are still without power in the state's leading power company, Hawaiian Electric. He's facing increased scrutiny over its own actions, both in the lead-up to the fire. And then during critical moments as people tried to flee, a new lawsuit filed yesterday accuses the company, which provides 95% of power on the island of years of negligence. The suits contended previous fires on the island were sparked by downed power lines and claims the company did not make necessary changes to secure wires ahead of this one.

It is the fourth lawsuit filed against the company since the fire. Now residents also see utility companies made it harder to flee the flames. Look at this new video from one resident who says electric workers created a choke point as people were trying to evacuate. Now, Hawaiian Electric spokesperson Darren Pai said he would look into whether the company strikes cause the highway to be shut down.

And while the company is declined to comment on the lawsuits, the spokesperson said the company was aware of the allegations but remain focused on restoring power to Maui as they work with authorities trying to determine the cause of the fire. All right. I'm joined now by NBC News with correspondent Dana Griffin and Dana. We are in the, all right.

All right. I know we've got a little tech issue, so I'm going to keep my question very tight. What's the latest that you know today? And are we seeing more coordination between locals and the feds?

We know that was an issue throughout the week. Yeah. Well, we're definitely seeing some sort of action here. We've seen a lot of people, a lot of rescue and recovery units actually going into Lahaina.

There's a military checkpoint here. You're not allowed in unless you can prove that you need to be there seeing a lot of people with respirators. We're seeing some of the locals take back entrances. They know how to get into this town.

They've got their N95 masks and they're carrying equipment out trying to visit the sites of their homes and also trying to do it in a very safe way. We know that a lot of aid has come in and more is coming in ahead of President Biden's visit. So I think people are feeling a sense of we're getting the things that we have been asking for for days. And there seems to be more of a calm when it comes to that sort of topic because we were out reporting even way back on the weekend, people were coming up to us emotional crying saying this is not helpful.

And I think opening the road to Lahaina that major highway was such a huge point that people wanted. And I think that it's helping here. And Dana, can you there is a there's only five people that have been identified of the dead, which means there are 106 known fatalities that at least haven't been publicly identified. How many of them have been privately identified and just they haven't notified next to Ken or is this an ongoing issue?

I think that a lot of people were hearing from whether it's the hope the apartment manager or family members who are expressing that their loved one is passed on. I think people are confirming it one through videos. There was one where a guy said he saw his grandfather or his father in the water with the dog. They went back to try to find him.

He was gone, but the dog was there. So they're able to look at certain things or they're seeing their houses burned because they can't get in touch with loved ones. They've checked all the shelters. They're kind of coming up to some of their own conclusions or maybe they have been confirmed because you know family is notified first and they're automatically putting that information out there on social media.

So NBC News has been able to independently confirm some of the victims just through their family members and official statements that have gone out. Got you. Dana Griffin on the ground for us on the island of Maui Dana. Thank you.

We're now by the Red Cross regional communications manager Evan Peterson. Evan now this is more I think of a certain what is the official stage of the recovery. Are we still in search and rescue mode? So as you just saw, yes, there is still a search and rescue capacity taking place right now.

The focus for the American Red Cross is we are still that immediate response phase. There are still thousands of people who need a safe place to stay. They need healthy, healthy food to eat, clean water to drink. And they also still need to deal with counseling.

As you can see from these images, there is so much trauma. These people have gone through so much and our job is to sit there and listen and be that source of comfort and start getting them those immediate needs met. You're hearing the needs that are that they're looking for. In some ways, if the federal government came to you and said, Hey, what are you hearing that we're not doing?

We are in constant communication with not only the federal government, with FEMA, but also the state governor's office, the county and even the residents. Right now we seem to be meeting those needs on a case by case basis, but obviously this is a constantly evolving situation. Every single family, every single individual has different wants and needs. So our focus is making sure to listen to those needs to meet them where they are and to make sure we get them any better place than when we found them.

So it seems when you look when you think about this current sort of need-based issue of shelter, you brought that up, it seems as if we've got two problems here, they're going to have to get rid of debris and then build shelter here. Is there still a need for people to come volunteers to show up and help? Or do you get to the point where there's too many people and it can get in the way? We've been so fortunate.

We have a couple hundred volunteers, organization-wide, across the country responding to this disaster. And then just here on the islands, we've had thousands of people, local residents who weren't in harm's way, who have come to our office here in Hawaii and said, we want to help, we want to support our brothers, our sisters, our neighbors, and giving them the relief that they need. Right now, we are continuing to stay in constant contact with our volunteers all across Hawaii and then also on the continental United States to make sure that if needs change, if the ask shift, we are able to divert resources in people accordingly. But again, that's just a constant state of communication that we need to be in to help these people.

Look, this is obviously issues in the Hawaiian Islands, whether it's extreme weather, natural disasters, fear of man-made disasters when you think about the neighborhood that they live in. Where does the Red Cross, I mean, do you guys have almost a permanent ready-to-go area in the Hawaiian Islands? So we've been operating here in Hawaii for, I think, more than a century now. We actually do have the brick-and-mortar offices on the majority of islands here.

I was at headquarters initially in Honolulu, and that was the primary staging area for a while. But then once we were able to open up and solidify any more mobile headquarters here in Maui, we have people here. So we are constantly ferrying resources between the multiple different islands. And yeah, our brick-and-mortars, as you put it, those are here in Hawaii.

We do have a permanent presence. We were here before this fire started to hear from the minute this incident occurred, and we'll be here long after. This may be something that somebody else on the York chart knows this, but has the Red Cross had to increase its capacity with the rise of extreme weather? We are very aware of the climate crisis that is occurring.

We know that that is making storms more powerful. We know that that is creating areas that are more prone to deal with or to get a disaster. So yeah, we are having to constantly stay keeping an eye on the sky, if you will, to make sure that as areas change as a result of the climate crisis, we are able to shift into bird resources. And that's the benefits of being in a national organization where 90% of our workforce is comprised of volunteers, is that on average, we see about 60,000 disasters that we're responding to.

And we are making sure that not only our resources in place at different warehouses across the country, but also people so that when disaster does strike, we can give them the call, they take their back, and they're able to help our neighbors in need. Evan Peterson, from the Red Cross on the ground in Hawaii, I know a lot of those among the organizations we have been promoting when people want to help appreciate you coming out and sharing with what you're doing down there. Thank you. Thank you.

Turning out to another growing humanitarian crisis in New York City, it's struggling to accommodate more than 100,000 migrants that have arrived there, mostly due to paid bus tickets and playing tickets from the Southern border Democratic mayor, Eric Adams, who is a White House for not doing enough to help. And now Adams is facing criticism from another Democrat, the governor of New York, Kathy Holkel, who's counselor sent a scathing 12-pinch letter to a judge overseeing a case on the right of migrants to shelter. The letter says the city faces a serious crisis, but it's failed to accept the state's offer of assistance and should be more to act in a proactive and collaborative manner with the state. This is a bit confusing here.

So joining me now is NBC News National Court. And soon to be part of the great club of White House Correspondents, Skid Guilleras, it is a terrific title to have and to have had. So welcome to the club there. And let me ask you this.

So Kathy Holkel playing full back here for the Biden administration? Look, I think Chuck, over the last 24 hours or so, both Mayor Adams and Governor Holkel have tried to walk back any tensions downplay the friction. The governor is arguing that this is part of a court case. And as you said, this was a letter offered by her lawyer.

But I think this really comes down to money, Chuck. The mayor for the last few months has been sounding the alarm. Now his administration estimates that taxpayers here in New York are going to have to foot the bill for $12 billion by the summer of 2025. The city has been asking the state to pick up two thirds of the cost, the state coming back and trying to hold that off.

And again, you're right. The mayor has been asking the Biden administration to do more, not just in terms of money, but also in terms of expedited work permit. So it's a very complex issue that yes, it's putting Democrats against each other. And Gabe, I mean, is it the mayor right here?

I mean, is it this? This is an immigration issue. This is a federal government problem. Should the city and state have to be the ones to put the bill?

Well, certainly. And you know, look, it is the politics are complicated, Chuck, but the mayor, you know, he says he doesn't care about politics. He could believe that would you will, but he has a problem in his hands. He needs to figure out how to house these folks, because by law in New York, they are required to give temporary housing to anyone who asked for it.

And there's just no easy answer. You're looking at the, you know, the video there of the migrants outside of that Roosevelt Hotel, the iconic hotel in Midtown Manhattan that was there just this morning, speaking with a business owner there, a jeweler right next door says his business is plundered by 50%. Doesn't know if it will survive. He says this is a huge problem.

Other restaurants in New York have, you know, threatened to close as well. And the question becomes, Chuck, you know, the supporters are governor Abbott down in Texas and said, you know, perhaps he's right, the Texas border communities have been overwhelmed. He wanted to highlight the issue that bigger cities couldn't handle it. At least in New York, it does appear, at least so far, besides the humanitarian concerns.

But financially, this is putting a huge, huge strain on New York and they're opening, planning to opening to to shelters in the coming days as well. And any word from the, I mean, is there any movement for federal dollars? Look, Chuck, Chuck, is the senatorial leader. And the Biden administration and the White House secretary do say that they have already given 100 million dollars in aid to New York City.

But there appears to be no movement here in Congress, both sides on this. Look, the Democrats here in New York, they have been arguing that it's up to Congress to fix this broken immigration system, the Department of Homeland Security has been saying that over and over again, but at this point, no movement from Congress, Chuck. Nope. And you were right to point out, this is exactly what Governor Abbott predicted.

He thought would happen. And on this one, whenever you think of his politics, he's been right that other mayors would struggle as well. Okay, good years. Reporting for us in New York.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. We'll look forward to welcome you to our DC Bureau soon.

We'll be back tomorrow with more of the press now, NBC News now coverage continues with Hallie Jackson right now. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of The Drink. This month, Demi Lovato is my guest. The global superstar tells me that she is the happiest she's ever been right now.

But getting there, it wasn't simple. Demi opens up about starting in Hollywood young and why she now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage, and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook. The drink is always about the journey to the top.

And this was an honest conversation about what that takes. Hope you'll listen and follow the drink wherever you get your podcasts.