Did you know that every day like ASMR can actually be healthy for you? Right now, you're improving your heart health, boosting your brain ac- If it's Monday, the redistricting fight in Texas intensifies, with Democrats fleeing the state to stop the legislature's work, and a deadline set by Governor Greg Abbott to force them to return, or face serious consequences, just expired. Plus, the White House defends the president's surprise firing of the Bureau of Labor Statistics Commissioner over Friday's weaker than expected jobs report, as the president doubles down on his claims, minus any evidence, that the government's data was somehow rigged to make him look bad. And special envoy Steve Whitcoff has expected to brief President Trump today after returning from Gaza amid the intensifying humanitarian crisis in the region, and public outcry over harrowing new images of an emaciated hostage being held by Hamas.
Welcome to Meet the Press Now, I'm Kelly O'Donnell in Washington. We begin with breaking news in and out of Texas, where Governor Abbott's 3 p.m. local, 4 p.m. Eastern deadline for Democratic lawmakers to return to the state as now elapsed.
The governor is threatening to remove those elected officials from office, in addition to hitting them with fines and the potential to file charges. But it's unclear if he has the legal authority to do so. Democrats, meanwhile, show no signs of backing down or returning to the Lone Star state, as they vow to fight Abbott's order while hunkered down in blue states under the protection of governors like Illinois's J.B. Prince, or in New York's Kathy Hokel.
The escalating standoff comes after dozens of Texas Democratic House members fled Texas to block the start of a special legislative session. Without them in attendance, there is not the quorum that is needed to start official business. The move prevents Republicans from moving forward with a Trump-backed plan to draw new lines for the state's congressional districts. Those new lines for each district would likely favor Republicans and possibly allow them to maintain control of the House in the upcoming midterms.
As we await, Governor Abbott's next move, Illinois Governor J.B. Prince, or potential 2028 presidential candidate, is pledging to protect Democratic lawmakers from extradition, and accusing Texas Republicans of trying to cheat in the midterms. We're going to do everything we can to protect every single one of them and make sure that because we know they're doing the right thing. We know that they're following the law.
It's Ken Paxson who doesn't follow the law. It's the leaders of Texas who are attempting not to follow the law. They're the ones that need to be held accountable. The cheating here is the fact that we are midstream in 2025 and they want to rewrite the map and for only one reason.
The cult leader of their party tells them to do it because he knows he's going to lose control of the House of Representatives. Let's go big picture. Here's why we're in this standoff. You can see the district lines in Texas as they are now, with 13 of 38 seats won by Democrats in 2024.
The proposed map drawn up by Texas Republicans would give them five more districts to target, all of which President Trump easily carried in November. To offset those potential kick-ups, Democratic governors like New York's Kathy Hochol are pledging to redraw their own state lines. Current state restrictions be damned. Every Republicans are willing to rewrite these rules to get themselves advantaged.
Then they're leaving us no choice. We must do the same. There's a phrase, get the fight fire with fire. That is a true statement of how we're feeling right now.
As I've said, another overused but applicable phrase, all's fair and love and more. That's why I'm exploring with our leaders. Every option to redraw our state congressional lines as soon as possible. So armed with those cliches and her fire, meanwhile President Trump, who in many ways sparked this gerrymandering arms race, signaling he's holding his fire too.
With an administration official telling NBC News, there are no plans to use federal agents to arrest the Texas lawmakers who fled. Saying, quote, governor Greg Abbott can handle his own state. So joining me now from Austin, where it's all going down, where the Texas House just resumed its session is NBC's Ryan Chandler. And then we also have Shaquille Brewster, who's in Chicago, where some of those Texas lawmakers fled to block a chance to vote by their Republican colleagues.
So Ryan, Shaq, good to have you both. Ryan, let's start with you. The deadline has now come and gone. I'm sure you've been checking your watch.
What's happening in Austin? What's going on? What do you hear on the ground? Kelly, we're watching all of this play out in real time, literally a minute ago.
The speaker did what our reporting indicated he would, which is entertain a motion for a call of the House. That is the procedural motion by which state lawmakers can literally compel any absent Democrats to return to the House under threat of arrest. The speaker just said that he would entertain that motion, and he would sign the arrest warrants for any Democrat who continues to break quorum. They did not have a quorum when they finished roll call just minutes ago.
So this was a successful quorum break, certainly good news for the Democrats in Chicago, New York, Boston. However, now they have serious legal consequences to face when the House chooses to deputize the Department of Public Safety, Texas Rangers, to arrest Democrats and quite literally lock them in the chamber if they are forcibly returned to Austin, Kelly. Well, certainly ramping things up, and we know that this is likely to trigger a legal fight. Can you walk us through some of the legal questions and what the governor might be trying to argue here is his authority to take these actions?
Governor Abbott is a smart political strategist, and he plays hardball, but never quite to the level that I've seen him play today. He is introducing this legal theory that he has the authority to vacate the seats of representatives who do not show up for work, arguing that they have absconded their duties, left their seat empty. And thus, he has threatened to call special elections to replace the lawmakers that are in Chicago and other blue cities right now. Of course, that's a question for the courts, whether the governor has the unilateral authority to do that.
But he is not playing around, and he is serious. One of the senior advisors said that these special elections are going to come quickly. He is urging people to sign up their candidacy for those empty seats. So, Karen, the governor is also floating something about charges for those who are helping these lawmakers.
Obviously, they're not on their own entirely. Would they have to pay fines or some of the help they're receiving from others who are supportive of the Democrats' cause? What are you hearing on that? The Democrats who are breaking quorum are doing so at serious personal expense.
After the last quorum break, the House chose to issue $500 fines per person per day for anybody breaking quorum. There are a lot of national Democrats fundraising to support this quorum break. Beto O'Rourke, for example, has been raising a lot of money for Democrats to do things like this. So they certainly have a lot of big money behind them to pay for hotels, food, fines.
But the governor says that that essentially amounts to a bribe and could be a second-degree felony. Of course, a ton of novel legal ground that we're on, but it shows you Republicans are entertaining at stream measures to try and get the capital back on track here. Exploring as they go, Ryan, stay with us if you would. Let me turn to Shaq as well.
You, of course, are in Chicago where a lot of this action is happening. What are you seeing in the Chicago suburbs? How long like these Democratic lawmakers from Texas be prepared to stay in Illinois? Well, when asked about that, even last night when they first arrived, they kind of said they're taking it day by day.
They didn't really answer the question of the long game. What is that long-term strategy? But if you just look at the schedule, Kelly, we know that a group of them will be having a press conference later this evening with members of the congressional delegation. What that means is that they will not be in Texas.
They will not be at that state capital for a business to continue moving. And when you listen to these lawmakers as they've been on television throughout the day and explaining this extraordinary measure, they say that these are extraordinary times, that this move is required because it's the only tool that they have to stop these new maps from getting in place. I want you to listen to what one lawmaker said just a couple of hours ago. We're breaking quorum now because this is different.
Trump has asked those same Texas Republicans to redraw the Texas maps to get him five more seats. They're doing it in the middle of the decade. This is like two teams coming out of the locker room at halftime of a football game and the team that's ahead saying they want to change the rules in the second half to make sure they win. It's cheating, plain and simple.
If one side cheats, all bets are off. Kelly, as we've been listening to these lawmakers throughout the day, it is clear that they are trying to nationalize this. They want people in states like New York, Illinois, Massachusetts to get involved to realize that what's happening in Texas does have national implications. And they're being very clear, this is the only tool they have.
And they plan on using it to the fullest extent that they can. And a playbook that might be repeated elsewhere. Are you hearing anything from these Texas lawmakers yet about this threat that Ryan was explaining to us about the governor wanting to vacate their seats, effectively undoing the election that put them in office? Yeah, when the governor first kind of floated that in a statement overnight, at least publicly, they add a forward statement, essentially, bringing it on, like, Calmatis, they're dismissing that.
They're not really saying that it's a real threat. You even heard one lawmaker in New York essentially say, and I'm going to clean up her language, but that the governor is full of it when he's threatening to impose felonies to arrest them if they come back to the state or to deputize others to really have that legal action. They're saying that they're not too concerned about the actions that the governor can take. But on the other hand, they are saying that they're staying in these states because they know that any warrant that is filed, any push to have them arrested in Texas will not impact them, at least immediately, in states like Illinois and New York.
Kelly. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Joining me now from Chicago is the chair of the Texas Democratic Party, Kendall Scudder.
So thanks for rolling with us here. Things are a little volatile. You know it well. So, you know, sometimes I got to deal with a couple of nuts.
Yes, it's part of it. We understand that and we can roll with it. The Texas House, as you know, just voted to authorize arrest warrants. That's what we were trying to explain to our audience.
That would compel members to return, this comes as the governor, is threatening to use fines, to remove people from office, to prosecute Texas Democrats who left this day. So tell me, what is the reaction from you and your colleagues? What consequences are you prepared to withstand if the governor goes through with those threats? Oh, Greg Abbott is just looking at Donald Trump and saying, I learned it from you, Dad.
He's being a one-to-be authoritarian. Let's make no mistake about what's actually happening right now. What's actually happening is Republicans are doing everything that they can to avoid accountability for their actions. This special session was supposed to be about flood relief.
137 Texans are dead. They've had one hearing on flood relief. They've had seven on political districts. They are playing political games with people's lives, because they know that the electorate is ready to hold them accountable for what they've done.
They have gutted Medicaid and Medicare. They have passed a largest tax increase on working-class families in our lifetimes. They're pushing tariffs that are making life more unaffordable. They're shutting down rural hospitals, and just last week they started talking publicly about privatizing social security.
So to make sure they're not held accountable for their actions, they are gonna try to reap the game and steal the 2026 midterm elections away from the voters. Texas Democrats are not gonna let it happen. Have you and your colleagues work through what it might mean if you were arrested, if you return to Texas, or if there are other consequences like these mounting fines? These Texas Democratic legislators are heroes, and they are doing this at great personal expense, because they believe in this republic.
They are patriotic Americans doing what it takes to defend democracy for 10 years. Democrats have been campaigning saying that we are the great defenders of democracy. Now is the time to put up or shut up. And Texas Democrats are showing you that we know how to fight.
They are ready for whatever it takes to make sure that they are needing this moment, because Texas Democrats are ready to fight. If we look back a few years, this kind of thing has played out before, where the governor is able to call special sessions. He did that in 2021, Democrats returned to the state after six weeks. So that's a long time.
How long are Texas Democrats prepared to stay outside of Texas for this fight? I think that's a decision of maybe a joining of the country and the governor. I hope people around the country will consider going to Texas Democrats.org to support this redistricting defense fund so that we can help afford to stay out. I mean, these folks have jobs.
They have families. They want to take their kids to the first day of school today. But they're here because it's the right thing to do, and they've signed up to help the on the front lines here. The governor also, you know, he could have made a decision to work with us on these types of items.
We could be in Austin right now working on flood relief to make sure that families don't have to go through the failure of Republican government that went through and killed 137 Texans in this disaster that happened earlier in July. They're choosing not to do that. They're choosing to play political games. And if Republicans want to play that game, Democrats are here to fight back.
And are you prepared for the political consequences? Obviously, Democrats are in the minority in Texas. There may be voters who would seek to punish at the ballot box, Democrats who left the state during this time. How do you see that playing out?
Voters see through this. Voters know that what is happening right now is that the richest people in this country are hijacking our government and trying to avoid accountability so that they can just pickpocket every one of us and run this government unencumbered. We are not going to allow that to happen. One of the great heroes of Texas, General Sam Houston, has a famous quote, do what's right and risk the consequences.
That's what Texas Democrats are doing. When you talk about doing what's right, at what point is there a concern Democrats would seed the moral high ground by leaving the state and blocking the operation of your own state government? Where is that moral high ground line? There are emergency powers under the governor.
He has the ability to do these things right now, and he's not doing it because he wants to use these floods. That's a political tool. So what I would say to the governor is if he wants to deal with flood mitigation, then do it. What are you waiting for?
Why are you holding it up so that you can use it as a political pawn in this situation right now? This is absolutely unacceptable governing, and the governor should be held accountable for what he's doing. He is running a muck on the entire system of government, and we will not be a part of it. When you see national Democrats, like the governors of New York and Illinois, Cathy Hochl, JB Pritzker, talking about Democrats fighting fire with fire using some of these same tactics when it comes to redistricting, do you think the Democratic voters will stand for that, or do they view that as simply doing what the other side is doing?
Democrats want non-partisan redistricting committees, and the problem is that Democrats in blue states have been doing that, including themselves at a disadvantage while Republicans have been carving up their states. Now, I know that Democrats have carved up some of their states as well, but I'm saying that states like California that are large vote totals for Democrats, they have been passing our partisan redistricting committees. I think that what has to happen is that these blue states need to carve up their states into oblivion, to make sure that these Republicans see why we need federal non-partisan redistricting committees. It is the only way for the people to take this government back so that they can hold their elected officials accountable.
Right now, these districts are drawn so that it protects every one of these electeds, and so that they never have to face consequences when they do something wrong. Whether you're a Democrat or you're a Republican, if you're doing something the voters don't like, you should have to be held to account for that. And that's why we want national non-partisan redistricting committees. Until we get that, Texas Democrats are gonna use whatever tool we have at our disposal to make sure that Donald Trump and his administration have to be held accountable during the 2026 midterm for what they've done.
We will be following these fast-moving developments with you, with your colleagues, with the lawmakers who have moved beyond the state borders. Thank you for your insights on this. We'll check back with you in the coming days as this continues to unfold. Kendall, thanks so much for being with us today.
Thank you so much for having me. And coming up, we'll dive deeper into the political fallout from the redistricting fight in Texas and how Democratic 2028 hopefuls are trying to seize on this fight. But first, the latest after Friday's surprise firing of the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner as President Trump baselessly calls the jobs numbers a scam. You're watching, meet the press now.
Welcome back. I have a new wave of tariff enforcement set to begin on Thursday. President Trump now says he's assessing additional tariffs on India, the president posting on social media that he was, quote, substantially raising tariffs on the key U.S. trading partner, citing its purchase of massive amounts of Russian oil.
The president also doubling down on his baseless claims that July's lackluster jobs report was, quote, rigged as his administration defends his firing at the head of the agency that produces that report. Do you have any hard evidence that you can present to the American public that these numbers, these revisions that were reported and there were plenty of revisions under former president Biden, including right before the election? Do you have any hard evidence that these numbers were wrong? Yeah, there is very hard evidence that we're looking at the biggest revisions of 1968.
No, the number itself, it isn't yet. But just saying it's an outlier, it's not evidence. It's a historically important outlier. It's something that's unprecedented.
It's still not evidence though. I've looked at it for years and I'm like, it must be a typo. NBC News White House correspondent Monica Elba joins me now along with NBC News business and data correspondent Brian Chung. Glad to have you both.
Monica, let's start in that search for evidence. The president continues to call the numbers rigged. He's called it a scam. He's used his hyperbolic language on social media and talking to reporters about this.
Now, Mr. Hasick did not have a specific piece of evidence. Has the administration provided anything that would indicate the numbers were somehow manipulated? No, Kelly, they haven't.
And that is really a reflection of the president simply being incredibly frustrated by what was a weak jobs report, as you said. And one that at times, even just a few months back in March, for instance, a similar report he touted as great and really strong. And when he felt that it was building on his narrative and in his favor, it's something that he was quick to reference now that it isn't. And now that he says there is an issue with it, he is presenting and making these baseless claims that somehow there must be some political interference here.
And that is why he decided to fire the commissioner, which he does have the right to do. He can remove anybody who's a political appointee the way that she was. But the fact that he is saying that for some reason, he believes that she was working against him, that just is not accurate. And if we look at the facts, this is something where even the BLS commissioner under President Trump in his first term is speaking out and saying, this is not a situation where anything here was done in an improper fashion.
It is just a reflection of a president who doesn't like the numbers and now is trying to say that he wants to install someone there. And the question, of course, that that raises Kelly is what can those numbers mean? How can they be trusted if it's just somebody that he believes will be in place there to reflect whatever it is that he may want to hear? And he did float the idea of having a replacement ready in the next few days and named to offer to be the next commissioner.
Are we getting any inkling on who that might be? Yeah, and what's notable is that right now, the acting commissioner is the person who was the deputy, who is continuing this. And the question is, this has to be a Senate confirmed position. So even if he makes an announcement about who he would want that person to be, they would then have to go through this lengthy process to get confirmed.
And that might be something that Senate Democrats make pretty complicated and make pretty difficult. So what does that mean for next month's report? But the other question that we have here, Kelly, is this idea that you heard there from Mr. Hassett, the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, that it's not just the person at the top.
He said basically that the president wants to get his people in as the mathematicians, the statisticians, the people who do the data who contribute to putting together the report because he's saying that's a part of the flaw. So that's why, of course, our colleague Kristen Wilker pressed him on saying, does that mean that there could be more removals or more people leaving that position? And that's something maybe that the administration is going to look at as well, so that we could see some change from the staff as well that prepares this data. A whole team of people are responsible for working those reports.
We made a quick mention about tariffs. And at the same time, Mr. Hassett, Jameson Groove, the US trade rep, they've talked about the fact that tariffs are set, that's done. And yet we're hearing the president through his way of speaking publicly on his social media and elsewhere, talking about India, also talking about the fact that he's very frustrated with Canada, is there a particular prompt that is kind of getting his ire when it comes to India right now?
Yes, there is. And what's notable here, too, is that, of course, it can be this deadline. But the president really is also saying that any country that either wants to make a deal or that makes him so irritated that he feels he wants to kind of reevaluate and slap a potentially higher tariff rate on them, he says that that's something that he is likely going to do. So when it comes to India in particular, he's frustrated with the fact that India is continuing to buy oil, and that is something that on his true social point, he pointed out from Russia, and he wants to continue to really make this about a larger geopolitical point.
And with Canada, in addition, a really important key trading partner, there has been kind of a process there that was playing out that might result in a different outcome. We know on separate tracks, we have the talks with China, the talks with Mexico that have been granted these kinds of extensions, and then these other countries that didn't necessarily make any kind of a deal or reach a framework still could perhaps reach one before that newer deadline of the baseline tariff that 10% is gonna kick in with some of these other countries. So it's still a bit of a moving target, Kelly. Our summer of tracking tariffs continues.
Thank you, Monica. Appreciate your time today. Let me turn to Brian, our numbers guy. We really need your help today.
You understand how these reports are compiled, how they get the data, why there are revisions. Can you walk us through it so that everyone understands how you get from jobs data to a finalized report, and then frequently revisions? Yeah, I never thought I'd be talking about the dinners of how the government collects data. I do get excited about it, but obviously under the surface, it's very unusually, I'm happy to be here.
But look, when it comes to these numbers, a lot of people are probably asking the question, wait, why would the government put numbers out? And then after the fact, say, actually, those numbers were wrong, here are the real numbers. This is just part of the regular process of revisions. And the government's been doing this data for decades.
So the way it works is that when the government publishes a report that says, here's how many jobs were gained in the month of July, like they did last Friday, those numbers come from phone calls that they make to both people individually and say, hey, are you working this month? Where do you work? How much do you get paid? They ask those same questions of employers.
They phone up the people that are actually in charge of hiring people and ask them, hey, how many people did you hire in the last month? Do you have to lay anyone off? And then they publish those data sets. And you can imagine that through that survey collection period, they don't get all those phone calls or those surveys responded immediately, some of them come in a little bit later, some of them coming after the fact.
So as that data comes in on a lagged basis, they then go back to the numbers, which they may have published already and say, hey, you know what, now that we got this data, let's make it even more accurate, in which case you have those revisions a month and even two months afterwards. And even after that, once a year, they do a whole benchmark revision to the jobs numbers, based off of unemployment insurance claims that they get. So again, this is very high quality data, and again, part of the regular process, which is why it's so confounding that the president is suggesting that these revisions are just kind of part of an issue or a political conspiracy inside the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This is the way that it's been done for a long time.
For a long, long time. And Kevin Hassett has been talking about it every month when the numbers come out for as long as I've known him. The process also requires, as you pointed out, the voluntary submission from individuals and employers who provide the info. So we all know what it's like to get a survey on our phone or in our email.
That's the kind of thing we're talking about where people provide that. And then when they look at payrolls like ADP and other things, they can put that all together. Do you see from your experience, is there any way in that process of data collection that you could play with the numbers for a particular purpose? Yeah, well, you bring an interesting point about ADP.
There are a number of other third party businesses or think tanks, companies that collect data and then they publish their own measures of, not just how the labor market is doing, but what does inflation look like? Other types of reports. A lot of them benchmark against the government data. That is the reason why we've actually been hearing some commentary from Wall Street suggesting that if there were to be some major overhaul at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which isn't happening right now, keep in mind that there's an acting commissioner that's been put in place who is a career civil servant.
We're not expecting anything in the interim, but if the president were to pick someone that went uproot and kind of turn the whole system of how a government data is collected or even published upside down, that can lead to all those other third party data providers also having their data in question because of the fact they oftentimes reference what the Bureau of Labor Statistics is publishing. But again, to your point, about whether or not it can be politically motivated, the former head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics posting on a blog post saying that quote, the commissioner does not determine what the numbers are, but simply reports on what the data shows, adding that it's a decentralized process. The heavy suggestion there, it's not easily manipulated. And that's a big part of the story here that can't be forgotten as well, Kelly.
You're giving us a perfect segue, Brian. Thank you for your expertise. And joining me now is the former Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner, William Beach. Mr.
Beach served under President Trump in his first term and under President Biden. Thank you for being with us. When you saw how this unfolded with the president firing one of your successors, did you ever think this kind of a step could be taken? I didn't think it would come to a firing.
You know, we've had this sort of understanding between the parties that the BLS commissioner pointed by one party would be continued by the other party in order to retain the confidence that people have in the numbers to basically say, this is not a political position, even though it's presidential appointed or it's Senate confirmed. It's very different from being the head of the Labor Department or the Treasury Secretary. So that was striking to me. It was also striking that the context of the envelope of the dismissal was that the commissioner was leading a conspiracy of people inside the Bureau, whose intent was to create numbers that would be prejudicial first to the campaign of President Trump, which I think was conducted in a way that would not have been vulnerable to any numbers, it was well done.
And then is prejudicial to his current public policies. Brian is becoming my favorite reporter because he just so accurately said, it's not possible for the commissioner to have that influence. I was never in the room where the data was collected. I was never in the room where the data was summed up and then estimated into these well-known numbers that we get on first Friday.
In fact, the commissioner doesn't see the numbers until they're completely finished. And absent that, the current situation does not permit the commissioner to lead a conspiracy to rig the data. You really outlined the safeguards that you have seen having held that position. Let me turn to some of the comments of Kevin Hasett, who is of course the director of the National Economic Council.
He is one of the president's longtime advisors. He described these revisions in this latest report as historically important outliers. Again, the report included not only the July numbers, but going back and revising some of the spring data, which turned a bit more sour on the economy. These are revisions that normally happen.
Is there something in the fact that this was such a big revision that in and of itself makes it unreliable? Kevin's a very good friend of mine and we've known each other for a long time. We're together and I have great respect for his economics and his judgment. But in this particular case, I think that the most logical thing to guess is that the economy is signaling a turn.
So when the economy grows rapidly out of a recession or begins to become sluggish, maybe not headed towards a recession, but just sluggish, you see these trends or these trends in the revisions. You see them in the revisions, why? Because we're getting initial data, there we get more information, then we get more information for two months, as Brian said, after the initial release. And with those two months on top of the first release, we're now seeing a trend in the data.
Now I'm not saying that's what's happening here. I'm just saying that you should be open to that. The second thing, yeah, we should definitely take every opportunity to improve the process. And in point of fact, better job now in estimating that first number and getting it right compared to where they end up too much later than they have ever done before.
In fact, the improvements have been steady for the past 30 years. So the BLS, it's not doing a poor job, they're doing a better job and if we're getting rapid changes or rapid revisions, they may be due to other things. I'll just say one more thing. The big revisions on Friday, we're probably due to state and local education running out of funding from the COVID years.
That's one explanation, it may not be the correct one, but some people have argued that that's kind of what's happening there in state and local. So let's not blame the commissioner right off and say, oh, it's a conspiracy. Let's say there must be a reason and try to get to that reason. I think that's what good information and good statistical practice point to.
Because I have you here, I'd like to play something that was a part of the Meet the Press interview with Kevin Hassett, what he said so that I can get your reaction to it. Let's play that exchange. I mean, there are 40 people put these numbers together. Is the president planning to fire all 40 people involved in putting these numbers together?
We're gonna try to get the numbers so that they're transparent and alive. Is the president prepared to fire anyone who reports data that he disagrees with? No, absolutely not. The president wants his own people there so that when we see the numbers, they're more transparent and more reliable.
So if the president is able to put in people of his own choosing to be in either the commissioner role or a broader group, will those people be able to adjust the data favorable to the president? So the selection of the final 40, if you will, the people who are in the lockdown room is pretty important. But what are they doing? They are individually handling little segments of the economy and then the associate commissioner, the assistant commissioners, they sum up everything that these individual analysts have done.
So even there, it's a bit easier to change the data in one direction or another, but it's still difficult. Why? Because everybody's looking over everybody's back to see whether or not they are kind of doing the right job. So yes, I would be a little bit more concerned if we had wholesale changes.
I don't know if you could find the kinds of experts, readily, to replace these people. They have been doing this work for a long time and they're very experts. They just don't go out there and grow on trees. So I wonder even there if that's what fixes any problem, what would fix the problem is for Congress and the White House to get together and really analyze what's wrong with the methods of collection and to modernize those.
I think there's a good deal to talk about there, yeah. Your expertise is invaluable. Thank you. You've been in that chair.
You know what it's like. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. We appreciate it. We certainly hope to touch base with you again as new developments in this issue surface.
So thank you, sir. Thank you for being on. Thank you. And after the break, the latest on the hunger crisis in Gaza.
I'll speak with the doctor who just returned from the region about what she saw on the ground. When we return, you're watching. Need the press now. Let's just take a step back.
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Crisis subject to change. Visit NBCNews.com slash Xfinity for full offer terms and details. We're glad you're back with us. President Trump is expected to receive a briefing from Special Envoy Steve Wickoff today.
After Wickoff's latest trip to the Middle East, which included a rare visit to the Gaza Strip and a meeting with hostage families. Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu is facing even more pressure at home to reach a deal to secure the release of the remaining Israeli hostages held in Gaza. NBC News International correspondent Matt Bradley is in Tel Aviv with more. Matt, we appreciate your time.
Yes, we're hearing increasingly loud criticism of Israel over the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip. Hamas and its partners, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, have released separately videos of captives that have been held by them for the past 22 months ever since those October 7 attacks, and they are horrifying. We can't show the videos in full, but we can explain them. They show two captives, both of them in their 20s.
Both of them had been kidnapped from that. Nova Music Festival on October 7. They both show men with their bones sticking out of their skin. Both of them begging to be released and describing how they are starving.
And in one, we actually see what looks like a sort of calendar menu on the wall that shows that they're only eating rice or lentils every day. Some days they go with nothing. This desperate situation comes as we're hearing from Hamas that they might be willing to allow for the Red Cross, Red Crescent, to bring in aid to some of these hostages who look to be wasting away, doctors telling their family members that they are near death and that the effects of the starvation on their bodies might be difficult to reverse, even if they are to be freed. But these images have sent Israelis by the thousands back out into the streets over this past weekend, demanding a hostage deal, negotiate to deal an end to the fighting in the Gaza Strip.
We also heard from Hamas saying that they are not deliberately trying to starve these hostages. They said these hostages are entitled to the same meager rations that Gazans are getting throughout that enclave. Now, all of this is happening as Steve Whitcoff, the President's envoy to the Middle East and to Russia and Ukraine, wrapped up a trip at the end of last week where he actually visited the Gaza Strip to assess the humanitarian crisis there. He also visited with hostage families, and there was leaked audio published in Israeli media in which Mr.
Whitcoff described a new negotiating tactic, which looks like a paradigm shift. Those negotiations largely wrapped up about two weeks ago, but he said that there's no longer going to be any key-smeal discussions about releasing a few hostages here and there for a little bit of time. Instead, he said they're going to be all or nothing deals. Now, this is something that the hostage families were not happy to hear about because, of course, all would mean that all of the hostages, there about 20 of them thought to still be alive, would be released, but then nothing, that's unclear.
If there is no negotiated solution to the hostage crisis in the Gaza Strip, that could be bad news for the hostages and for the people of Gaza, both of whom have been suffering now for nearly 22 months. And thank you, Matt Bradley, for that report. Joining me now is Dr. Unbreen Salimi, a surgeon who recently returned from volunteering in the Gaza Strip.
And Dr. You bring eyewitness experience that we so rarely get a chance to hear. Can you tell us how long were you there, and what did you see firsthand? Sure, thank you so much for having me.
I was there for almost one month, and I was in Nasser Hospital in the South. I'm a Urbanaologist at OBGYN, and I spent a majority of my time in the maternity hospital, but also in the general trauma awards. And what I saw was really unimaginable conditions. Again, with pregnancy and in the maternity hospital, I saw so many complications that were due to starvation of the mothers of the newborn babies, but also the lack of nutrients and vitamins.
It was far beyond the medical crisis. I think I saw at times, at least a few times, a week, the intersection of pregnancy and trauma, where we had women who were four, five, six months pregnant, who came in after explosions. And we often think about pregnancy at a time for such a joy, yet that was not the case for the many women in Gaza who were not only worried about explosive injuries, but on top of that, lack of nutrition and food. And I feel like, as parents, we want to make sure that we have the best for our babies, that they're meeting all milestones.
And also for ourselves, we're always taught to take prenatal vitamins. Well, what if you don't have access to them for months and months on end? This leads to an increase in birth defects that are normally preventable. And in the case of severe birth defects, the NICUs were full of babies with complications during this time that I was there, and it increased a number.
And before October, 2023, babies with birth defects could be medevolved out to partner hospitals that would do the surgery that was needed. And I remember there was this one baby that looked full term. It looked much bigger than the other babies in the NICU because it also had a cardiac condition with surgery, but it was turning blue because they weren't able to medevac it out. And this baby ended up dying on day three of life because there was just no way to take care of it.
It is so hard to hear the specific things that you're describing. And I know you were there having to live with it around the clock. What kinds of conditions did you find you were working under as a medical volunteer? And what do you think are the biggest humanitarian needs in this moment?
That's a great question. I want to say I also spend most of my time working in impoverished conditions. I've worked in Ukraine during this conflict. I've worked during sea fires in South Sudan.
But what I saw in Gaza was really unimaginable. Besides the babies and the women that were taken care of, we had an acute crisis of what was available for everybody in the bathroom. There was also an acute crisis of the wall. And just a few days ago on my way home, we got to notice that for the over 400 people that were being treated in Nasser Hospital, which is one of the main hospitals that's still functioning in the Gaza Strip.
There are not many, but that's where I was. They had run out of wound care supplies. So you have several hundred people that really rely on their burns and explosive injuries being tended to and given the sanitation conditions because there's no clean water. There's a lot of the proper antibiotics and supplies.
And then on top of everything, a negative infestation that hadn't been seen before, but began because of the number of casualties, the lack of supplies and the lack of layers of heartache there, just layers of it. And worse and worse in my time there. Well, your experience is a window for us. Thank you for sharing it.
Thank you for your good work. We hope to check back with you again as the situation there evolves. Thank you, Dr. Selen.
We appreciate your time and your service. Thank you for having me. Still to come, the Republican redistricting fight in Texas ignites a fight among Democrats. As New York Governor Cathy Hopal vows to explore every option to redraw the lines in her own New York to help Democrats.
You're watching. Meet the press now. It's panel time. Welcome back.
As we mentioned at the top of the hour, states where Democrats control the state legislature are looking to redraw their own maps in response to what we're seeing in Texas with redistricting efforts. With some Democratic governors like New York's Cathy Hopal arguing, the end justify the means. Joining me now is our panel, Kevin Fry, Washington correspondent for New York News 1, Democratic strategist Amisha Cross and Republican strategist Lance Trobert. We're talking about your governor.
So let's put it right on you. What do you think is at risk for governor Hopal and what is the potential upside when you consider how she is addressing this crisis in Texas? Right. So I mean, from a starting point, let's just acknowledge that the likelihood of anything happening at least in New York before 2026 because of the way the Constitution was different.
It's not going to happen. And 2028 is more or less what they're looking at. Nonetheless, for governor Hopal a few years ago, when she was on the ballot the last time up for election, she was blamed by no less than Nancy Pelosi for costing Democrats control of House representatives. So she is looking to try to look aggressive that she is fighting for the Democrats.
And so this is a chance for her to kind of show some of that if you want to say gravitas that I'm in control, I'm fighting for my party as she heads into this next election. And Amisha, the governors are certainly sounding like they're in the fight for not just this contest and this set of issues, but the larger political landscape and maybe reaching not only into the midterms, but to put themselves on the national landscape for 2028. So how are you assessing Governor Pritzker, Governor Hochl, and how they're involved in this so far? Well, I think that the governors and Democratic governors are very well aware of what the polling looks like for Democrats broadly and at spoiler alert, it's not looking great.
The brand has been really bad. They know that the brand is tarnished and they have a bit of leeway that congressional Democrats do not, being that they can, you know, charge the course for their states. They're also obviously looking at 2028. JB Pritzker was looking at 24 to be a vice presidential candidate.
At this point, I think that what we're seeing in Illinois and Chicago is my hometown. We're seeing a guy who also knows his polling. He's saying national polls on what 2028 could look like for him. He's teetering in like the three to four percent range.
He's hoping that some of this is actually going to help. Exactly. Get him some more of a national profile. But with that being said, he runs into somewhat of a situation that might be similar to New York.
No, it's not codified that Illinois can't reshape its redistricting. They've done it multiple times. He's redrawing that map and he's mapped out and eradicated certain Republican legislators. But I do think that there are only a handful of Democratic states that can pull this off because you need to try that.
You need a Democratic House. You need a Democratic Senate. You need a Democratic governor as well. And that's just not the case with the majority of states with Democratic governors, but they also led independent maps movements.
And when you lead an independent maps movement and then you come back and say that, hey, legislators shouldn't be able to choose their voters, then that kind of kills you. So there are a lot of places that are hand-stringed by their own Democratic Party. And that, yeah. Lance, talk to me about the congressman who wants to try to put into play some more permanent resolution to this issue.
And does that have likes? The law from Kevin Kylie. Kevin Kylie is a great congressman. He's a young congressman.
He's an up-and-comer. He certainly doesn't want to get withdrawn out. I think he wants to stick around. He's a strong president.
Look, to me just point, we're both from Illinois. I don't know what else in states like Illinois and California. They can do. I don't know what else in California where they're supposed to have independent commission.
And in Illinois, there's only three Republicans left. So I'm not sure what else they can do. It's also a little to your point. A little hypocritical JB Christopher who ran and campaigned on an independent maps program and has signed one of the most lopsided maps in the country that we see right now.
Look, I think when it comes down to it, this is going to spawn a broader discussion here in this country. And I think that Kevin Kylie Bill is the start to see that. Which would prevent legislatures from doing it mid-death. For people who don't remember, it's done after the census.
When you have a better picture of who's in each state. That's when the lines are drawn. And you want to add the one thing that you've seen from the Democrats in terms of at least Governor Hokel's messaging today Are there no rules then? Well, then you become kind of this ripple effect, right?
Where it's basically no holds barred. It's kind of rushing to extremes. How do you also can't play the game with old rules when they are re- That's where we're redesigning at the same time. The old Democrats are behind it.
Exactly. They decide they're going to actually get into the fight. Whether or not they're voters actually recognize that this is the real fight is going to be, you know, up for a program. What are you the Democrats have been?
I mean, they have been fighting the map in North Carolina. They've been trying to do it in Wisconsin as well. So it's not like they're immune. And this is completely new to them.
They have been fighting in other states as well. One dimension of politics has always been work the rules to your best advantage. If you're a candidate or you're a party. I mean, that's always been at play.
But it does seem like there's a shift in what participants agree are the rules. Because the mid-decade thing is kind of a new interpretation. How do you interpret how voters may respond to this? Are they tracking it?
Are they paying attention? Do they care about this? I mean, this is like one of the difficulties of redistricting. And this is just like a practical sense.
It's very complicated. And it's very boring. And so I think there is a chance if lawmakers continue to elevate this to a large talking point that perhaps they'll be more engaged. But even just think of it from a television perspective showing two maps next to each other on a screen becomes very confusing and very boring.
And so how do you keep lawmakers that and get our voters that engaged? Your audience right now. What do you think in terms of what this does for donors? Is what these Texas lawmakers who've gone to blue states, do you hear the cash register ringing?
Well, I think that Democrats are hopeful that more donations will come in because what we have seen is a huge drop off since the last election side. Part of that, again, is based on polling and where things are currently saying for Democrats. The other part I think is that, quite frankly, there has not emerged a strong enough figure to show people the way. Democrats, unlike Republicans, are still trying to find who that next, you know, messianic figure is going to be to save them.
And unfortunately, there are way too many people who aren't on one accord, and it has become very difficult for them to get out of that wilderness. I do think that for voters, the main state issue is always going to be the main state issue. They're going to care about their personal economies, their pocketbooks, you know, the results of what these tariffs are looking like on the price of groceries, the price of gas, whether or not they can go on vacations with their family, the rising student loaned it, and lack of repayment options. There are so many things that are cost analyses that they're worried about, not necessarily the maps.
Well, let me tempt you all with another scintillating topic. That is the VLS firing. So Lance, when you look at this, typically this part of the government is immune from the day-to-day politics. Do you think there's a price for the president to pay for this firing?
There have been plenty of times he's been happy with revisions that win his way. I think this falls into the category. I'm not sure voters are going to be really super upset about it. Look, he certainly has the right to do what he did last week.
And I, look, I'm not only people who just freaks out at every decision he makes a lot of people on the left love to do that. Whoever he chooses will have to go through a Senate process. They will have to go through a question and hearing and they will have to get through an early divided Senate. So I'm not particularly worried about it.
Do you have any sense as kind of the Republican at the table that there is evidence that this was being manipulated in a way? There's a difference between slow data and cumbersome data and willful manipulation. I think there is nothing wrong with asking questions about the process. I mean, when you come in and say, okay, well, here were the numbers and we're going to change it by 200,000 this time.
Or last year, it was 800,000. I mean, we talk about giving certainty to businesses and the community out there in America at large. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking those types of questions and saying, is this the proper process that we should be going through? Well, I think we've done our part to make these rather dry topics interesting.
And thank you for coming. No, no, no, no, I'm right with you. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we all, we enjoyed this. So thank you for your expertise.
Appreciate your time being with us today. Kevin Amisha Lance, glad you were here. Hope you'll be back again. Of course, we're back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now, but the news absolutely continues here with Hallie Jackson right now.
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