Meet the Press NOW — December 19

Foreign. Busy and potentially historic day in Washington as we await the Justice Department's release of hundreds of thousands of documents from its Jeffrey Epstein investigation, which could come at any moment. Now, the DOJ facing a deadline today to release all unclassified records and investigative materials after Congress passed legislation last month ordering it to do so. There are likely millions of pages of documents and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche today suggesting the administration will not be able to fully comply with that law.

So today is the is the 30 days and I expect that we're going to release several hundred thousand documents today and those documents will come in in all different forms, photographs and other materials associated with all the investigations into into Mr. Epstein. And so I expect that we're going to release more DO documents over the next couple of weeks. So today several hundred thousand and then over the next couple weeks I expect several hundred thousand more.

Blanche's comments already kicking up some frustration on Capitol Hill after the bipartisan authors of the Epstein Transparency act warned the Justice Department that non compliance was not an option. Let me be very clear. We need a full release. Anyone who tampers with these documents or conceals documents or engages in excessive redaction will be prosecuted because of obstruction of justice.

We will prosecute individuals regardless of whether they're the attorney general or a career or political appointee. They refuse to produce these materials. Then let's say whoever is the next president, their attorney general could bring charges because the statute of limitations will not have run out on non compliance with this law. As the White House braces for the start of the release of these files, the president floating the possibility of a potential war with Venezuela.

In a call overnight, the president telling me late yesterday that he is not ruling out war with Nicolas Maduro's regime. The comments coming just days after he ordered a blockade of sanctioned oil tankers coming and going from Venezuela. And his administration says it carried out its 27th and 28th military strike on alleged drug boats near Venezuela. Those strikes have now killed more than 100 people.

We have our team reporters standing by right now, NBC News senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez, NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles, NBC News law enforcement and intelligence correspondent Tom Winter, NBC News chief Justice and national affairs correspondent Kelly o' Donnell and NBC News senior national political reporter Jonathan Allen, who was in Phoenix speaking to Trump supporters at a Turning Point USA conference. Thanks to all of you for starting us off on this monumental Friday. Kelly, let me start with you. Let's just drill down on what specifically DOJ is required to do.

What does the law require at this point? Well, it is notable as we gather here for your program that the Justice Department has now begun what has been a very long awaited release of these files. Officials just moments ago had told me it's coming soon. And now we know that the Department of Justice is beginning the rollout of what we believe will be hundreds of thousands of documents today, according to the deputy attorney General.

This initial release we expect will include things that take us inside parts of what has been a nearly 20 year odyssey of Jeffrey Epstein. This controversy has lived longer than Epstein himself. He is now deceased, of course, and some of the records may include details about his suicide in detention while he was awaiting federal charges on sex trafficking. We expect that there will be some insight on the discussions inside Department of Justice, perhaps of the investigative materials used by the FBI.

We've seen lots of things that have come out over the years that relate to the Jeffrey Epstein saga. But we expect this might give us a peek into a deeper level. And what I mean by that is we've already known about certain flight manifests. We've known about certain financial records.

We have seen how the committees on Capitol Hill that have been a big part of the pressure campaign were able to get material from the Epstein estate. What we'll be looking for is is there anything new in these files that suggests there is a pathway for any prosecution, remembering that the department had already said they had reviewed everything. There is no client list to be seen and there are no actionable still within statute of limitations issues to be prosecuted. So will there be anything that contradicts that?

And in really the big picture sense, this has been a very ugly, dark and difficult period for the victim. They have for a long time wanted the light of day to explain what they went through. There are political ramifications, certainly there are notable people who have had friendships, acquaintanceships and perhaps some involvement somewhere along the line with Jeffrey Epstein. So the impact is far reaching.

Whether anything will be actionable is a question. But this day certainly will bring about some measure, some measure of what victims have been calling for. It was notable today that the deputy attorney general said it would not be the full release today. That would take weeks.

However, today was the deadline. There don't appear to be any potential penalties for the Department of Justice not fulfilling that requirement under the law. Kristen. Kelly o', Donnell, with the significant development that the Justice Department has now begun the release of the Epstein files, what Deputy Attorney General Todd lynch has said would be comprised of hundreds of thousands of documents.

Kelly, please stand by. I'm going to go. Tom Winter give you a chance to start looking through some of these documents. What will undoubtedly be a days long effort by much of our news organization.

Tom, you will be among those reading, sifting through these documents line by line, word by word. What specifically will you be looking for? Well, I can tell you what I'm already looking at, Kristen. Here's how it's broken down.

The just department set up on your website. Forgive me for looking down at my screen. There are files that are released under the Epstein Files Transparency Act. That's a column.

There's the first phase of declassified Epstein files. Those were already released this summer. We've seen those. There's bop video footage.

That's the Bureau of Prisons. That's video footage from the Epstein cell block area prior to his suicide that was previously appears mostly to be previously released. I haven't watched every second. Obviously there's information from Ghislaine Maxwell's profession with the Deputy Attorney General of the United States, Todd Blanche.

Those materials have previously been made public as well. There's memoranda in correspondence. So there's a 2011 exc. A 2020 DOJ Office of Professional Responsibility report in summary that looked at the non prosecution agreement that was whether or not there was any sort of impropriety conducted in the course of the investigation.

In that non prosecution agreement back in the mid-2000s, there's reports about that the Office of Inspector General reports as it pertains, it appears to Epstein's suicide. So those are a lot of materials that we have previously seen and were frankly sitting on my laptop ahead of time. Some of the things I've seen already are documents and photographs of evidence, including Epstein's massage table. That was the table he apparently used to victimize so many of these girls at his home in Palm Beach.

I'm looking down at my screen to see if I can actually pull it out. So this is just a typical kind of an evidence photo. That's an actual photo of the top of the massage table. Those are the types of photos that are being presented.

We aren't getting what the Justice Department said, which is the evidence photos in a lot of, I would say multiple media. It's unclear if there are any other reports. There's four big batches, Kristen, that are coming down in large, large volume zip files. So we're opening those up and then going into them.

But it's definitely a significant amount of material and we'll be going through it to see exactly what are some of the things that we've seen before and what we haven't. I'll use the massage table as an example. Some of these photos do not appear to have been previously entered into exhibits in federal court, so they would be new, but we've seen photos of them before, and we also have in this particular instance. I just got lucky with this example.

The actual massage table was shown to jurors during the course of the Glenn Maxwell trial that what we're looking at on screen are a series of photographs. There's a link to that that's also included in this website that allows people to look at what the House Oversight Committee has released several dozen photos so far. And so that's something that's also attached to this, or I should say linked out to this, but does not appear to be new material from the Justice Department. So we're still going through it.

There's no possible way at this early juncture to say what is particularly new, things that we haven't seen. If there's any sort of significant revelations in our reporting, just based on folks that we've spoken to that worked on this investigation, and a memorandum that the Justice Department released in July saying there's no information in these files that they can find that points to even opening a new criminal investigation, let alone charging anybody else. But, of course, this is our first time looking at it, so we'll see what we see. All right, Tom, we will let you dive in to the files.

And I'm gonna go to Capitol Hill. Ryan, let me just read a little bit. The Justice Department saying, in view of the congressional deadline, all reasonable efforts have been made to review and redact personal information pertaining to victims, other private individuals, and protect sensitive materials from disclosure. That has been a big part of the effort that has been underway in the days and weeks leading up to this release.

Obviously, the battle to get these documents release has erupted on Capitol Hill. Talk a little bit as our colleagues start to read through the Epstein files. Ryan, about that backdrop, the fact that you had this, what, turned into a bipartisan effort to pressure DOJ to release these documents. You also had survivors of Jeffrey Epstein come forward, hold press conferences with lawmakers on Capitol Hill to try to make the case that these documents need to see the light of day.

Ryan. Yeah, let me talk about that a second person. But there is one thing of interest, I think, when we begin to dive into whether or not the Department of Justice is being fully compliant with the law that was passed by Congress to release these files. There is a tab on this page that you go to that allows you to search the database.

This was a requirement of Congress that not only do all the files be released, but that the American public have the ability to use a searchable database to find information quickly that they might be looking for. I went in, and obviously this is only about for about 15 minutes of that, and typed in a few obvious search terms that folks might be looking for. And so far, it returned no information yet. So maybe they're still working out the case there.

But I do have to tell you, one of the big questions that we're having leads into what the question you asked me is how will Congress view compliance when it comes to the release of this information? And one of the things that kind of created this groundswell of support behind a congressional effort to force the Department of Justice to release this information was this idea that the Department of Justice was going to hold nothing back, that they were going to provide everything that they had in all of their case files and all the evidence collection and all the different court cases, and that the American public would have the ability to go through that information on their own without any kind of filter. Now, there's obviously a few caveats that have to do with active investigations and the protection of survivors and their victims. But one of the things that is happening right now are these members of Congress that have pushed hard for this.

They're going through these documents to see exactly if their vision of what compliance looks like matches what we see in what's come out of this early release of these documents. And I think there's a right now a kind of divide on Capitol Hill as to how much space they're gonna give the Department of Justice to get into compliance. We saw Rokhano, who's one of the authors of the legislation, say, let's give them some time here. They say they're gonna do what they're gonna do if they don't get everything out today.

As long as they get everything out, that'll be okay. But then you saw Robert Garcia, who's the ranking member of the Oversight Committee, along with Jimmy Raskin, the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee. Take those words. We saw from Todd Blanch earlier today that they were gonna release everything today and already declare them not in complian is a really important part of this puzzle is what does compliance look like?

How do you determine that? And if there is a perception that they are complying, what are the consequences associated with? And I think that's gonna be one of the big storylines that plays out here over the next Couple of days. I think you're absolutely right, Ryan.

And as our colleagues sift through all of this paperwork, I want to read a statement from Maria Farmer, one of the Epstein survivors. This was a statement released today prior to the start of the release of the document. She says, this is a moment for which I've waited three decades, over half my life. When I was ignored and hung up on by the FBI in 1996, my world turned upside down and I felt frozen in time.

I faced death threats, ridicule and mockery by some of the most powerful people on earth. When my FBI reports are finally made available, I am hopeful that I will be able to pick up where I left off at age 26. I am also hopeful that this will be an important step for many of the survivors and hold the government accountable for their grotesque law enforcement failure, one of the largest in US History. Again, this the statement today coming just before this release of the Epstein files, which has now started to come in.

Ryan, let me go back to you, because the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein played a large role in this push that we saw on Capitol Hill to make this day possible, to push these papers out into the public. Chris, I don't think that you can overstate the amount of impact that the Epstein survivors and victims had in making this day a reality. They were apolitical. They reached out to Republicans and Democrats.

They reached out to journalists, many of them speaking to us at NBC News. And they did so under very courageous and very difficult circumstances. As we've already seen, there are very, very powerful men that were connected to this controversy and this scandal. And in many, many different ways, these survivors had had their livelihoods threatened, their actual lives threatened.

And obviously, they went through the pain and trauma of the experience as well. So it took a lot for them to come forward, put their names and faces on in front of television cameras and tell that story and demand action. And I think what's interesting about the germination of this process is in many ways it started at least kind of the real momentum behind this started in the conservative influence and blogosphere. These were conservative influencers who had the theory of a conspiracy theory that perhaps the Epstein controversy was in many ways the keystone to a vast conspiracy that involves some of the most powerful leaders in the Democratic Party, in Hollywood and other places, in fact.

And that's kind of what got the ball rolling. And Donald Trump adopted that as a campaign platform in 2024, promising that these files would be released. And then Donald Trump got elected and the Department of Justice handed out over the summer, a kind of half hearted effort to release all these files. And that's when you saw the survivors come in and seize on this opportunity, say that this is not enough.

We have been begging for this for the better part of three decades. And now we see an opening where it has gotten the consciousness of the average American who hadn't paid that close attention to it and they were able to tell their stories as the real victims of the situation. And from a political perspective, regardless of whether or not you are a Republican or Democrat, you could not stand in the way of that momentum going forward. And once Rohana and Tom Massey got to the point where they got enough signatures on that discharge petition to go around Republic leadership and get this bill on the floor, all but one member of Congress knew that they could not risk being someone that stood in the way of this release.

That's why you saw it passed by a nearly unanimous vote in the House, only one member voting no, and it passed without even any sort of debate in the Senate under unanimous consent. And so there is no doubt that you have to give credit to the survivors who risk everything by telling their story. And I also believe, Kristen, as shown in that statement that you just read, is that it's going to be the survivors that are going to be the drivers of the Department of Justice fully complying. Because not only are we going to hear their voices and hear them saying, no, this is enough.

We know there's more out there, but they also have the ability to take legal action on their own to force this compliance. So their role in this is just so unbelievably important. Well, Ryan, so important to have that background and to remember how we got to this moment. I am going to go to Gabe and John just a moment, but I do want to head back to Tom because, Tom, I think you have.

You're saying something you think needs to be highlighted. I think a couple things. One, want our audience to be aware that as the laws provided, as Ryan has and Kelly have been reporting, that there is supposed to be a search function on the Justice Department's website that allow you to be able to search for specific individuals. I ran the names Epstein and Maxwell, the two individuals charged in this case, the two principals in this case, and I received no return.

So that link does not appear to be working up to its task just at the moment. Some of the items that have been released here, Chris, and we touched on it a little bit before, are photographs that have not previously been made public of things that we've seen before. But there are some other things in here that are potentially quite disturbing which we're not going to show, which are heavily redacted photos, either in their entirety or have significant portions of the photos that have been redacted that may have to do with age victims. And these photos are highly sexual in nature or nude in nature.

And so that's something that we were aware of that was seized by the New York field office of the FBI in the course of their investigation into Epstein when, after that Miami Herald story by Julie Brown broke, that they were able to recognize that, hey, there's these case files in Miami. Maybe we could go down there and be able to start this investigation. They then conducted additional search warrants after Epstein was taken into custody in the summer of 2019. And it appears we're looking at some of the fruits of that now as the law provides.

The Justice Department said they're not going to produce any child sex abuse material. So the material here is heavily redacted. You can't make out the identities. But it's clear that at some point, at least according to the FBI and the fact that we have in the fact that these documents are included in this release, that Epstein had these materials on him at some point.

And so we're still in the process of going through. It's not clear of some of the photos of an island or his island or from some sort of vacation, but that's at least the information that we have so far. Far, again, we've made it through a percentage of a percent, so we're still going through these things. We just want to get people an understanding as we talk here this afternoon.

Well, and Tom, we appreciate it. Please continue to update us as you go through those files. And your reporting highlights how disturbing in nature this case was. Gabe, let me turn to you at the White House because it's my understanding that you are getting reaction from the White House.

What do you have? Yeah, that's right. A few moments ago, we just received that statement, the first statement from the White House following the release of these, of these files and spokeswoman Abigail Jackson saying that the Trump administration is the most transparent in history. Everyone.

She goes on to say about releasing thousands of pages of documents, cooperating with House Oversight Committee subpoena requests and President Trump recently calling for further investigations into Epstein's Democrat friends. The Trump administration has done more for the victims than Democrats ever have. And while President Trump is delivering on his promises, she goes on to describe allegations that Democrats elicited money in meetings from Epstein's from Epstein. And she also goes on to say that the American people deserve answers.

So, Kristen, this is the Trump administration really trying to cast relationships with Jeffrey Epstein as being more related to Democrats. That's something President Trump has done repeatedly. Also making the claim without evidence that former President Clinton visited Jeffrey Epstein's island, a claim contradicted by Chief of Staff Susie Wiles in that recent Vanity Fairs, Vanity Fair series of interviews where she said that that claim was not true. But, Kristen, the White House has repeatedly wanted to move on from the story.

Just a short time ago, earlier this afternoon, the president was here at the White House at a separate event regarding drug price. He declined to take questions at that event. A rare instance of the president not wanting to take questions, but perhaps wanting to avoid questions on other topics, which reporters were sure to ask him about this. So again, we just received that statement from the White House trying to recast this as a transparent administration and trying to place some blame for Jeffrey Epstein's crime somehow on Democrats or at least raising questions about the associations that Democrats had with Jeffrey Epstein.

And of course, the White House wanted to move on from the story, of course, gave Democrats, Republicans, people of all stripes pictured with Jeffrey Epstein and some of the files that we have already seen released. President Trump, of course, acknowledges he did have a social relationship with Epstein in the 1990s that he says he cut off when he felt as though Epstein was engaging in inappropriate behavior. I want to go now to NBC News. Hallie, Hallie Jackson, who joins me now on the phone.

She's been speaking with Epstein survivors for months as this story has developed. Hallie, thank you for joining us on this significant day, the significant moment where they are starting to release the Jeffrey Epstein files. You have spoken to so many survivors who have been calling for this, who have painfully spoken about what they endured. What do you make of this moment, Hallie?

What are you gonna be watching for? Hey, Kristen, you know, it is with so many of them I want to see. But that doesn't mean that today is an easy day or easy afternoon. I think for some of the survivors that we've spoken to over the course of the last many months here.

Yes, these calls for accountability and transparency, exactly what we're seeing now. This fight that has lasted for quite a while on the part of these survivors is now culminating in the release, at least the starting of the release of file of the doj. And if you noted in your coverage here, there may be more come. But I will tell many of these survivors who are here Again, Kristen, and we've heard is that every time this comes up again, especially at a significant moment, as you call it, like this, it is, again, traumatic.

It is. They are reliving now what they have gone through. Many of these survivors, they are seeing these pictures and they are taken back to in many instances, for many of them, some of those worst moments in their life. And so I think that while the accountability and the transparency piece is critical for so many of them, I think there is also a really emotional impact that you see on a day like today.

We've heard from one survivor already, Maria Farmer, who said in this last couple minutes that the release is coming out, that it's a moment she's waited for for more than half her life, some three decades here. She's hopeful, she said, that this will be an important step for many of the survivors to hold the government accountable. I will also tell you, Kristen, aside from real Farmer, just having had prior conversations with others about, I do hear from many of them that they see this as almost like a new beginning, Kristen, that this is not the end for them. This is the start of the next phase of what they see as accountability and transparency process.

You know, I hesitate to use a word like, you know, healing, et cetera, because for so many of them, this is something that they've been grappling with for so many decades of their life. But at this point, at least, there is a relief. I think that is the overwhelming sentiment that we've been hearing before this. Once the obvious Transparency act passed, there was this deadline put in place.

You know, it became clear that the DOJ was going to have to legally release these files. I think many see this moment as a step forward, but again, not necessarily one that comes with no emotional difficulty here for so many of them. Well, I'm so glad you lay out that piece of this puzzle, Halle, because it's such a critical one. And it is impossible, Halle, to have this moment and to not think about Virginia dufresne.

She, of course, died by suicide, but she was one of the first people to speak out about what she endured with Jeffrey Epstein when she was very young. You have spoken to her family. They have been incredibly emotional in their push to see this moment. Come take us inside.

What their main message has been, Halle, leading up to today, that the fight cannot stop. On behalf of their sister, they are now picking up the mantle along with these other survivors, the women that Virginia herself called her survivor sisters, to continue the fight to pursue justice and accountability. That is, without a doubt, their legacy that they are raising her voice, a voice that her family, Virginia herself and her posthumous memoir had been silent at points in her life. And to raise her voice.

And I'll say this to again and again, in my conversations with somebody dusting survivors, what I hear is that they felt the courage to come forward because they saw Virginia come forward, that her bravery gave them the strength to be able to move forward themselves. And so she comes out of every single one of the young person women saying, listen, it's because of Virginia. I wish she were here. That's a refrain that we hear again and again to see this moment because she's the one and there's a lot of crisis given her from these survivors.

She's the one who catalyzed this moment for what she had dubbed in and is widely known now as her so called survivor sister, if you will. And I think that her voice is a critical one here and again, I think for her family. You are right. These interviews that have been conducted and all the statements that they've made, you can tell that there is a lot of emotion, there is some degree of anger in the way that some of this has been handled.

Above all, there has been a demand and a push and a fight to see a moment like this happen. The release of more information, the transparency piece of it and the call to. Yeah. And you have captured so many of those conversations, those sentiments, Hallie.

And the push to see this day actually come to pass. Hallie, thank you so much for joining us. Stand by if you would. John Allen, let me turn to you.

You have been talking throughout the course of the past 48 hours with Trump supporters at the Turning Point USA conference. What are they saying to you, John, about this moment? What has the reaction been so far? Hi, Kristen.

It is much the same as what you're hearing across the country, which is a demand, a demand for justice, for accountability for the powerful, for the rich, for the well connected. And this is the reason that this is not an issue that has gone away for the White House because it's not Democrats are calling for, although many are. It's not Republicans that are calling for it, although many are. This is a hotbed of the president's base here at the Turning Point USA conference, the group founded by Wayne Charlie Kirk.

And folks are talking about it. What they want is that transparency, accountability, let folks listen to what some of the things we heard today are only way we can, we can get rid of the deep swamp, the deep state. And it's there and it's alive and it's growing. The only way it's ever we're gonna get get that result is by being transparent or transparent and getting those files so we can see.

So the American people can see if you made a promise and that's what you ran on. We need to see results. You can't just redact everything or release some big FC minor and expect us all fall for it. As an enlightened citizenry.

That's not how you win our vote in the next election. Do you expect that we're gonna get to see everything today or that. I. I hope so.

So regardless of whoever is on that list or in the files, whether they're Republican or Democrat, I think what we need to do as a country, hold people accountable that have done wrong with their Christian. They don't care whose ox is gourd. They just want to make sure that there is that accountability. They want to be able to judge for themselves what happened, who was involved, not just who the victims were, but who the perpetrators were.

In some cases condemn them or hold them accountable politically if they can. This is a universal feeling among the folks we talk to here in Phoenix. John. This was one of the first issues where we actually saw cracks begin to form in the MAGA base.

Talk a little bit about that. And is that on display there? Absolutely. There are plenty of disagreements over policy and over the future of the MAGA movement that we're hearing here.

Lively debates over those things. But the one thing that again seems so unifying among the people here is they really want to see this transparency. And to your point, it is one of the first places we saw cracks in the MAGA movement. And the reason is because President Trump promised this transparency.

Here we are almost a year later, we're still seeing delays from the Justice Department. And this is a group of people that really felt like they were gonna be felt that they were promised and would get some accountability for the people who were friends with Jeffrey Epstein, for the people who may have assisted him or abetted him. Obviously Ghislaine Maxwell already in prison, but folks want to know who else that rode on his plane, who else who visited his island, who else may have helped him victimize so many young women, has been getting away with with it. John, great interviews.

Thank you for bringing that to us. Ryan, let me go back to you on Capitol Hill. You are getting a glimpse at a letter the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanch said to Congress. What can you tell us about it?

Yes, and in fact, my colleague Froop was able to obtain this I'm just taking a look at it right now. But it's basically that the Deputy Attorney General informing Congress of his efforts to comply with the law that they had passed. And he talks about as part of the collection and review process, the department is continuing to review additional documents and other items for potential responsiveness. He goes into some of the stuff that they've gone through, the review process.

They're producing hundreds of thousands of pages of documents in response to this act and basically just goes through line by line the efforts that they made to make sure that they are complying with it from stem to stern. This is a six page letter. It goes into a lot of different aspects of routine. Consisted of more than two department attorneys working to determine whether materials were responsible under the activity, if so, whether redactions or withholdings were required.

So that kind of goes into the redaction process. They talk about the specific production from today. They say it includes portions of the FBI New York investigative file from 2018, the Epstein criminal case filed for child sex trafficking in the 2019 Maxwell criminal case, the FI investigative file from the 2006 Epstein criminal case for child prostitution, the FBI Miami investigated file from 2009. So it has kind of line by line all the materials that they plan to release today.

And just checking here to see if there's anything about how much longer it may take for everything to come out. The department's commitment to transparency and compliance with the law has been historic. The Attorney General's greater. The department attorneys and staff employees work long hours to ensure that the Department complied with the act.

And in the letter it also reads, I anticipate this ongoing review being completed over the next two weeks. So that's, that's an important part about this disclosure. And we've heard Todd Blanchard say on television earlier today that this would not be the fulsome amount of material that they have at their disposal that would be released today. This is him informing Congress of that fact in a formal fashion that it will take at least two weeks for them to get all the documents out in a way that the American public will have access to.

That timeline is significant, underscores the volume of documents that we may be anticipating. Tom Winter, let me go back to you. Have you weigh in on what we just heard from Ryan? That letter from Todd Blanche.

Well, we could have timed it any better. I'm going to show you something. And just so that we're clear, none of this is material that depicts any sort of victims or any identifying information. This, that you're looking at here on screen, that is the Palm Beach Police Department initial report.

So what's included in something that Ryan pointed out, according to the attorney, generally included a FBI case file for Miami. This case started the Palm Beach Police department back in 2005. And then because of concerns the police chief, Michael Ryder had at the time, is how the case was being handled by the local prosecuting office. Then the state's Attorney's office, he referred this and they contacted the FBI and the U.S.

attorney's office in Miami and say, hey, you guys want to take a look at this? You want to potentially open a case? And so the Palm Beach Police Department file was sent over to the FBI Miami. That became part of the case file and was critical in developing the eventual prosecution that was brought in New York.

So that's one of the items that we're seeing, another big series of documents that we're seeing here. I'm just trying to bring this up in the best way for you to see it. These are what's called toll records. So what they do is they in a law enforcement investigation, you want to find find out who is talking to who.

These are toll records that they get by grand jury subpoena. So they reach out to anyone of the cell phone providers and they say, hey, we're looking for this particular number. All inbound, outbound calls, where they were made from, duration of the call. The information wasn't as specific back then in the mid 2000s that we would have now if I was to show you the similar record from, say from the most recent investigation we've been covering here, which is the investigation of shooting at Brown and mit of the press professor from that university.

We would have a lot more detail, but for our purposes here today, a lot of this detail is completely redacted. We've seen that in the past. And so there's probably a pretty good reason for that. One, it would potentially identify victims.

Secondly, a lot of those phone numbers, as you can imagine nearly 20 plus years later, have likely changed as well. And that's personal identifying information that typically is redacted in any of releases these, whether it's Jeffrey Epstein or any one of the FOIA type releases or public releases of documents that we see. Those phone numbers are almost always redacted. So that's again a huge component of what we're seeing so far.

We're seeing a number of photographs, as I mentioned earlier. And so just want to give people a sense of what's included in these files. And again, it remains consistent with our reporting, which is that once that story came out, the Miami Herald effectively took the case file from Florida. And certainly once the Epstein non prosecution agreement was entered into in the 2007, 2008 time period after that point, there's no indication the investigation ever continued.

So there's a big gap in time that I know a lot of people want to know about, but it's not material that would have been covered under the FBI investigation, which is, of course, under the umbrella of the Justice Department. So just so people understand time on your person. Yeah, fascinating. Just have a glimpse at these documents as they come in time.

Kelly o', Donnell, let me go back to you. I know you've been poring over these documents as well. Any takeaways at this point? Cal well, if we catch our breath for a moment and just try to share with the audience that the volume is enormous and it is sort of a journey into a world, some of which is quite plain and boring.

A number of the photos indicate just really sort of a snapshot of an empty room. But then there are some that contain famous faces. I've seen Bill Clinton's face. I've seen Michael Jackson, Diana Ross.

There are a lot of celebrities in the Jeffrey Epstein world, a lot of notable people. There is a contact book with 95 pages and it is filled with the names of notable people. Now, there are redactions that I presume are their address and phone number information, but their names are present. Includes people who are in nobility, people who are in the entertainment business, the supermodel world, authors, interesting people of many kinds.

That, of course, it's important to point out, is a description of the world in which Jeffrey Epstein lived. His illicit and illegal behavior may have been a far more narrow space. But Jeffrey Epstein sought to have influence by attaching himself to prominent people, by creating entertainment experiences that were completely awful, where noble people would be present, whether they were political figures or entertainment figures, global faces, bold big names. Their presence in these files does of course not mean anything in terms of determining any improper behavior.

That is certainly something that will draw interest, though. So for people who will themselves look at these files, you get a sense that this will certainly fuel the sort of public interest. The group of people who have been very deeply interested in these issues for a long time, who will want to review file by file. But unlike other kinds of big government releases, there's no executive summary to tell you what it all means.

There's no roadmap for how to know is this important or is that important? I will do our best. And why we have a team, a very large team of people reading and going through all of this to co curate and provide that context later. But just in these initial moments, the half hour or so that we've been diving into this, Kristen, you're just struck by those dimensions of Jeffrey Epstein's world.

His life ended in detention with suicide, but his living years included some very controversial behavior and some very fast life, big prominent world that he lived in. So some of the pictures show you a little about the decor of that place. Some of it's quite ordinary. And then as Tom alluded to earlier, there are also redacted photos that are deeply troubling and the kind of thing that is not suitable for the public to be seen.

And that of course, always takes us back to the very real people who were victimized by this, both in the United States and brought in from around the world. And for them, this date, as Kelly indicated, brings some relief, but it also certainly opens some old wounds. Kelly, it's so important to have that big picture perspective as you're getting a deeper glimpse into Jeffrey Epstein's incredibly complicated and layered orbit. Kelly, thank you for that.

I now want to bring in NBC News legal analyst Misty Maris. Misty, thank you so much for joining us. Talk a little bit. Kelly talked about how we have a big team pouring through these documents that are just starting to come in and that work is ongoing as we are on the air here and having this conversation.

But give us a sense of what can be released and also what will likely be withheld in this release. Yeah, Kristen. So yeah, I'm working my way through these documents as with the rest of the team. But there are a couple of buckets of information that can be legally withheld under this law.

The first is what Kelly and Tom were both speaking about. You have information that is redacted or taken out of this drop of information to protect those who were victimized. We saw these photographs, some of which are very, very graphic. They are redacted.

There's phone numbers that are redacted, non public identifiable information taken out to protect protect those individuals. That's one bucket. Then we have another bucket, which is a bit of a loophole in this law and it's a bit more subjective than that. And it's documents and information that relate to ongoing investigations.

So this is an exception in the act for what the Department of Justice has to make public. So that would be anything that is related to what we now know. Pambondi opening up an investigation earlier in September relating to ties between some Democrats and Jeffrey Epstein. So they have 15 days after the release of these documents, the Department of Justice has to say why and basically set forth a justification for materials that were not disclosed because they fall into that loophole in the law.

So that's some of what we might not see as we work our way through this tremendously voluminous amount of information. Mr. Maris, thank you so much. Please stand by.

I do want to go to Congressman James Walkinshaw. He is on the House Oversight Committee. Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.

Understanding that you that our team of reporters, reporters all across the globe just starting to pick through these documents that are now being released for the first time after this immense pressure campaign to see this day come to pass. What are your early takeaways from this release today? Well, thanks for having me. And first, I want to credit the courageous survivors.

You know, without their voices, we would not be at this point today, but we're starting to get some transparency. It's enormously frustrating that the law is clear. The files in full were supposed to be released today and the Trump administration is not in compliance with that law. So that's very frustrating.

That notwithstanding our team, House Democrats, oversight Democrats team, we're going to be combing through what has been released to determine what is there and what might be missing so that our investigation can proceed. You say that DOJ is not in compliance with the law, and yet we did hear Deputy Attorney General Todd Lamb say there are hundreds of thousands of documents that are going to be released over the course of two weeks. Do you need to wait until the conclusion of that time to make that firm statement that DOJ has not been compliant, or are you certain at this very moment moment that there has been non compliance? Well, the law is clear that the files in full are supposed to have been released today.

If the Department of Justice felt like they weren't on track to meet that legal deadline, they should have communicated that to Congress days or weeks ago. They've had 30 days to redact what needed to be redacted from the files and release them in full to the public so they have not followed the law. We're going to explore all of our legal options to make sure that the complete files with obviously information related to victims and survivors redacted, comes to light. Let me follow up with you on that.

Can you be more specific? What exact recourse or actions are you prepared to take to bring DOJ fully in compliance? We're having those conversations now. Ranking members Garcia and Raskin from the Oversight Judiciary Committees released a statement that they're consulting with our counsel to determine what the legal options could be, consulting with the legal representation for the survivors.

But we're going to pursue every possible remedy. I don't have additional information for you right now in terms of exactly what that will be. And talk about the significance of this day, understanding that Congressman Rohana, who's one of the lawmakers who led the charge to see this day come to pass, has put out a statement saying he's disappointed that the documents are not being released in full. But talk about the significance of the fact that there is this large tranche that is starting to be released, something that lawmakers but also the survivors have called for.

I think it's incredibly significant. And it's significant because it's one of the very few instances that Republicans in Congress have found their backbone and stood up to Donald Trump. They resisted it for a long time. But, you know, it's important to remember President Trump has done everything in his power to block these files from being released.

He tried to browbeat Republican members of Congress to remove their name from the discharge petition. He was actively lobbying against the discharge petition and the vote before it was held until he realized that he was going to lose. So he's tried everything in his power to block it. And Congress, in a rare instance in this particular Congress, stood up to him and said, the American people want to see these files.

The American people deserve transparency and the survivors especially deserve accountability for those involved in the crimes. Because minute and I've just gotten the statement from Congressman. Let me read it to you, Congressman. I'll get your reaction on the other side.

He says, I have to say that the release has been disappointing from the initial read of it, but I reserve judgment until we go through all of the release. Again. What I'm calling for in terms of a constructive next step is for Todd Blanchard, Pam Bondi, to get in front of the country to share the timeline for the full release. If they were to do that, would that satisfy what you are calling for, Congressman?

Well, I think that's a necessary step, and it's not what I'm calling for. It's what the law that President Trump signed calls for, which is for the files to be released today. So, yes, at a minimum, they need to come before the country and Congress and explain why they haven't released the full files today and lay out the timeline moving forward. I hope a rapid timeline for the American people to get the transparency that to they want here.

And Congressman, as you start to go through these files, what specifically are you looking for? Well, I think for me and I think for most people across the country, we want to know who, if anyone, who maybe hasn't been yet implicated was involved in Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. Who are the accomplices who helped him to commit these crimes, who perhaps knew that these crimes were taking place and didn't go to the authorities at the time? I think those are all really, really important questions.

But this is a story of, you know, rich and powerful men abusing, raping and abusing young girls and women. And we need to get the full truth, everyone who knew about it, everyone who was involved, everyone who might have helped it happen. And Congressman, just finally, once the files are released, what do you anticipate happens next? Well, on the Oversight Committee, our investigation is ongoing.

And it's also worth noting, even separate from the legislation requiring the release of the files, we have an active subpoena. An active subpoena with both the Department of Justice for them to turn over the files to the Oversight Committee and to the Epstein estate for them to continue turning over files. And our philosophy is we're going to follow the investigation wherever it leads. I'm not prejudging where that investigation will lead, but we need to get all the information and follow the investigation wherever it leads.

All right. Congressman James Walkinshaw, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

I want to go back to Ryan Nobles on Capitol Hill. Right. Just get your reaction to what we just heard from the congressman, who very clearly stated he's not satisfied by the release so far because it is not, he says, in compliance with what the law has ordered the Justice Department to do. Are we going to see a big battle?

That's the vibe you're getting right now, particularly from Democrats in Congress. Kristen, you heard from Congressman Wilkinshaw, his concerns with what has not been released yet. And we also were just listening into a press call that Congressman Ro Khanna was holding. That's part of what you were reading that transcript from.

And if I can get a little bit further into some of the points that Conor was making, he wants not only all the files to be released, which the Department of Justice said could take up to two weeks, but he also wants explanations for why things were redacted. So if there's a page that is just completely black or if there's a name that has been redacted, he believes that the Department of Justice needs to come to Congress and explain that even if it has to be a classified setting, because there needs to be some level of accountability as it relates to those redactions and in terms of the consequences, because I think that's a. A big question we keep coming back to. The Department of Justice is not going to sue itself or not prosecute itself for not doing the proper compliance with Congress.

Who then offers up those consequences? And Conor went into a number of different examples as to what options Congress has at their disposal. There is, first of all, the opportunity for lawsuits to be filed. Those lawsuits could come from the survivors, which we've already seen a degree of moxie from them to take on the powerful interests that are connected to Epstein.

So there's that stage. There could also be a group of independent journals who, our news organization, for instance, could sue and claim that this law exists and we are members of the public and we should have access to those files. And the judge could say, show me all the files and those files need to be released. But they said this, which I thought was interesting, that the Congress could ultimately hold impeachment hearings for Pam Bondi or Todd Blandford Blanche, if they are not being compliant enough.

And the first point you'd make right now is that Republicans are in charge of the committees that would hold the peace of hearings along those lines, and there's just no way they would take that step. Well, we have an election coming up in about 10 months, and so there is the possibility 12 months. There is a possibility that if Democrats were to gain back control, and Chris, there's a world where they could be back in control this time next year, if there is still a sense that they're not being fully compliant, the Democrats would have the opportunity and the power to take those steps. So there is a lot here that you almost kind of see a Karen Stick kind of tactic being held by members of Congress that are demanding fulsome release of this information.

And they want to make it clear that there are options at their disposal to enforce that. And I would say this is the last point I'd make about it in terms of what, why these members of Congress are initially unhappy with it. It is, A, the level of redactions, B, the fact that they, you know, the first glance have not been able to really get into some of the things that the survivors were specifically looking for. But I can't emphasize enough the fact that that searchable database is not working.

That was a key part of the law that they wrote that you'd be able to go in there, type in a name and kick out every single file where that name exists. And right now that function is returning nothing. So I think that's important to person. That is hugely significant.

And as soon as these files have started to be released, Ryan, it's something that you noted. The fact that here we are at the end of the hour. It is still a problem. Hugely significant.

Ryan Nobles, thank you so much for all of your reporting throughout the hour. Tom Winter, let me go back to you. You have learned a little bit more. What do you have?

Yeah, Kristen. So I'm gonna show you something on our screen right now and it's a note I just put in. Our control doesn't have a prayer of getting this up to show you full screen, but just give you a sense of what we're looking at. This comes from an FBI file that's included in here.

And this appears to be new to me. In March of 2011 there's a request here for two FBI agents to travel to Sydney, Australia to conduct an interview that was approved by the Criminal Investigative Unit of the FI cid In the Crimes Against Children unit. It was appears to be a swad supervisor at Palm Beach County. So that's somebody who oversees a particular swad of FBI agents.

And they wanted to conduct an interview apparently in connection with ongoing investigation. Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell. Why that day could be potentially significant. Significant.

It's clear that the FBI did not let go of the matter. Once Jeffrey Epstein was prosecuted in Florida and signed that non prosecution agreement, they were clearly had their ears open for new information and wanted to travel to Australia. Now, the name of the person they wanted to talk to is retracted. If it was a potential victim, I would have shown you the document anyway.

But it is interesting to note that the FBI peers have still been on the case at least as far back as March of 2011. And that several years after Epstein had already signed a non prosecution agreement. We'll see if there's some more information that's contained here. We might know who that specific individual is as well.

So we'll continue to do a little bit more reporting. But it did stick out to me that the FBI definitely was in the process. The strip appears to have been approved and that it actually happened and that the FBI was still continuing this investigation again after Epstein signed that non prosecution agreement. I'll mention alongside this that the FBI did want FC in charge and was prepared to charge him on complaint prior to the U.S.

attorney's office signing off on it. That they were ready to go when he returned from the US Virgin Islands and military investigation. They felt they had enough, we're told, to stand back down by the U.S. attorney's office.

Then U.S. attorney Alex Acosta overseeing it. Of course, he became Trump's Department of Labor secretary during Trump's first term and resigned as a result of some of the revelations that came out in the 2019, 2020 time period. Kristen?

All right. Well just a few of the critical nuggets that we are learning there. Tom Winter, thank you for your excellent reporting. Let you continue to keep reading.

Kelly o', Donnell, let me go back to you as we continue to pour through these documents. What will you be watching for as we head into this evening? Well, again, to give people some framework here, we have learned through the documents that have been produced today, including the letter from the deputy attorney general top blanche of Congress, that 200 Department of Justice lawyers participated in this review, 187 of them from the National Security Division. And then A second group, 25 lawyers, did a review of the reviewed materials with a special view of looking for victim information and to make certain that there was protection of those victims.

So that's part of the process being explained. We've also learned that in recent weeks the there have been judges rulings about grand jury information being releasable. That typically does not happen even when a case goes to court and is prosecuted to an outdoor outcome. Typically, grand jury material is secret.

In light of all of this context, there have been some rulings allowing for that. And so they acknowledge here that there's additional information that is being reviewed because that came to light or came to the awareness or access to it became available to the Department of Justice later in the process. So that explains part of why, at least according to the Department of Justice, why there may be more material coming out in in the time ahead. There's also a category of things that they can choose to exclude and some of that includes what you might commonly think of as privileges.

We know about an attorney client privilege. What you say to a lawyer who represents you is kind of a sacred space that can't be made public. But there are other kinds of privileges. They include work product.

So lawyers working amongst themselves that could be interesting deliberative discussions. And I raise that because it does open the door to might there have been documents, communications, internal records that deal with some of the decision making process with respect to Epstein that might be held back. Kristen? Kelly o', Donnell, thank you for being with us for the hour to pour through these documents as they come in.

And all of our team of reporters for being with us throughout the hour. We will be back Monday with warm me the Press Now. And if it's Sunday, it's be the press and local NBC News stations. I'll have exclusive interviews with Senators Lindsey Graham and Tim Kaine.

Don't miss it. We're gonna have continuing coverage of this breaking news on NBC News now. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention.

They made a life together. Then one night the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, un, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Makowitz and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dayline.

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