It's here. The Ford is a big deal. Not yet. The Ford is a big deal.
Oh, guys, just wait. The Ford is a big deal event is on. Really? Now.
Hurry up to lease the 2026 Maverick XLT Hybrid All-Wheel Drive for 197 bi-weekly at 5.29 percent APR for 60 months with 29.95 down. That's like $99 a week. The Ford is a big deal event. Visit your Ontario Ford store or Ford.ca.
Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, where Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is under increasing pressure over multiple controversies surrounding his decision-making as leader of the Pentagon over both the deadly second strike on that suspected drug boat in the Caribbean and his handling of classified military information in a group chat. Today, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the commander who ordered that double-tap strike on an alleged drug trafficking boat back in September were on Capitol Hill today briefing lawmakers as members of Congress demand answers and increased transparency about the legality of that second strike, which some have said could be a war crime. Following that closed-door briefing, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee expressed deep concern after seeing the video of the incident.
What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service. Any American who sees the video that I saw will see the United States military attacking shipwrecked sailors. Bad guys, Bad guys, but attacking shipwrecked sailors. Now, there's a whole set of contextual items that the Admiral explained.
Yes, they were carrying drugs. They were not in the position to continue their mission in any way. People will someday see this video, and they will see that that video shows, if you don't have the broader context, an attack on shipwrecked sailors. But Republicans like Tom Cotton, the top Republican on the Senate Intel Committee, disagreed, saying the video showed the strike was justified.
The first strike, the second strike, and the third and the fourth strike on September 2nd were entirely lawful and needful, and they were exactly what we'd expect our military commanders to do. What exactly did you see in terms of the video of the second strike? I saw two survivors trying to flip a boat loaded with drugs down the United States, back over, so they could stay in the fight. Speaking yesterday in the Oval Office, President Trump said he would support releasing the video of that controversial follow-up strike.
Amid that controversy, Secretary Hegseth is also facing renewed scrutiny for the information he shared on a Signal group chat. You might remember this. This happened back in March about a pending military operation in Yemen. Today, the Pentagon Inspector General released a long-awaited report on the role the Defense Secretary played in the so-called Signalgate saga.
In it, investigators concluded Hegseth violated military regulations, writing, quote, The Secretary's actions created a risk to operational security that could have resulted in failed U.S. mission objectives and potential harm to U.S. pilots. The report also says Secretary Hegseth declined to be interviewed as a part of the probe, instead providing just a written statement to investigators.
Joining me now is NBC News International Security Correspondent Courtney Kube, who is on Capitol Hill for us. So, Courtney, break down these different reactions that we are hearing from lawmakers based on which side of the aisle they're on. Yeah, so it's split down the aisle, frankly, Kristen. On the Republican side, they are saying there's nothing to see here and that they believe that the orders were all lawful and legal.
On the Democrat side, we are hearing about great concerns after seeing the full video that has become the subject of so much consternation and conversation over the last week since that blockbuster report out of The Washington Post that there was, in fact, a second and then additional follow-on strikes after against a boat on September 2nd. This was the first time the U.S. military struck one of these alleged drug boats in the Caribbean Sea. Now, we have heard from a number of lawmakers today who've come out of these briefings.
The briefings themselves, of course, are classified in the secure facility. So we've not heard anything from either Admiral Bradley, who was the JSOC commander at the time. He's now the head of U.S. Special Operations Command or the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Dan King, who is alongside him in these classified briefings.
But we have heard from a number of senators and representatives on both sides of the aisle. I had an exchange with Senator Coons, who was one of the members who was briefed on this. And here's a little of what he had to say. That's a fair characterization.
I'm trying to avoid making something unclassified that's currently classified to the best of my understanding. Senator Cotton and I came out with different understandings of what we saw. So that was one of the new facts that we learned here today from these senators. It was Senator Cotton who first said that the boat was actually flipped over and the survivors were in the water and that that was evident on the video.
It's still unclear, though, Kristen, where they actually trying to flip it over and still use it as a boat to continue on with their mission. We've also learned, according to several sources familiar, that in fact, they were in some sort of communication with a mothership. And that may have factored into the ultimate decision to take that second strike. Well, Courtney, what an excellent job you did there pressing Senator Coons.
Well done, I must say. Let me ask you where this goes from here, because we know that there have been calls for this to become a public hearing. These were closed door briefings that happened today. What are you hearing about any potential momentum to continue to push for that?
Yeah, there are still senators and members who are calling for open hearings, but we're not hearing about anything imminent on that front. There is one thing that I have noticed is a pretty consistent line coming out no matter which side of the aisle the senator or the representative is on, is that they are all very supportive of Admiral Bradley, Admiral Mitch Bradley, the head of SOCOM, saying that he had a difficult decision and that he made the decision in the moment. One of the things that we learned is that he did actually have a judge advocate general, a JAG, in the room with him during this mission. That would be standard.
But it's been one of the questions that we've been trying to figure out is, did he have legal counsel when he ultimately made the decision to carry out not just the second strike, but the third and the fourth strikes that ultimately ended up sinking that boat and killing all 11 people on board? Well, that's a significant revelation there as well. Courtney, let me ask you about the other matter facing Secretary Hagseth, his use of the platform Signal to discuss pending military operations. Secretary Hagseth responded to the report writing on social media, quote, total exoneration.
But, Court, that's not what the report says, right? How big of a firestorm is this? We've been trying to figure out what exonerates him exactly. Here's the facts.
As we first heard about yesterday and now the report confirms, that is that it found that the information that was transmitted by then head of Central Command, General Eric Kurilla, was classified as secret, no foreign. That means secret not for distribution to any foreign nationals. Now, Secretary Hagseth took that information at that level of classification, put it on his personal phone in the unclassified Signal app, the communications app, and transmitted it not only to other members of the administration, but then to other people like his wife, his brother and some other friends of his. At no point is there any proof that that information was declassified.
The one thing that the report does say, though, is the secretary is a declassifying authority. He has the ability to classify, but there's no indication that he actually did that. I don't see how the secretary and those around him are classifying that as an exoneration, but they continue to post that on social media today, Kristen. All right, Courtney Kube, phenomenal reporting as always.
Thank you so much for being here with all of your great information. We really appreciate it. We want to turn now to another breaking news story here in Washington. The arrest of a suspect in a years-long investigation into pipe bombs placed near the DNC and RNC headquarters on January 5th, 2021, the night before the January 6th attack on the Capitol.
The FBI today identifying Brian Cole Jr. of Woodbridge, Virginia, as the suspect seen here in video released by the FBI in the months after the incident, appearing to leave what authorities say were pipe bombs outside the DNC and RNC headquarters on Capitol Hill. Cole is now charged with transporting an explosive device and attempted malicious destruction by means of explosive materials. Did not discover any new information.
What we did, an investigation spearheaded by the deputy director and the ADIC of our Washington field office, brought in a new team of investigators and experts, re-examined every piece of evidence, sifted through all the data, something that the prior administration refused and failed to do. As a result of that, we generated numerous investigative leads, executed multiple legal processes with our U.S. attorney partners and came to this conclusion today. And that is why we were able to safely secure this individual into custody.
In a criminal complaint filed today against Cole, investigators say they have evidence that he bought bomb making equipment in the months and years before the incident. They say cell phone data also points to Cole being near the RNC and DNC headquarters at the time the bombs were planted. Today's arrest marks the culmination of an exhaustive multi-year investigation by the FBI, which included a half a million dollar reward, millions of pieces of evidence as well. That They went on to say this false equivalence is one of many reasons why trust in the media is at an all-time low.
So that's the White House's messaging there. But there are a lot of people who are saying this person who was allegedly placing bombs at these political headquarters, that they are also sort of trying to do the same, we're trying to do the same kind of violent actions that we saw play out on January 6th. And we saw, of course, lawmakers running for their lives and a number of people breaking into the U.S. Capitol.
That said, the tone coming out of the White House, apart from sort of the comparison to January 6th, is one of sort of taking a victory lap. They are really critical of the Biden administration and say that it's when they came into office that things were able to get moving, that this person was able to get apprehended, Kristen. All right, Yamiche Alcindor at the White House for us. Yamiche, thank you so much.
Really appreciate it. I had Democrats release a plan that would keep healthcare premiums from skyrocketing for millions of Americans in just a few weeks. But is it dead on arrival? We'll get a reality check from The Hill.
Plus, relax, take it easy. That's Speaker Johnson's message to Americans on the issue of affordability as his grip on the Republican conference is put to the test. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press Now.
The Ford, it's a big deal. The Ford, it's a big deal. Oh, guys, just wait. The Ford, it's a big deal event is on.
Really? Now! Hurry in to lease a 2026 Maverick XLT hybrid all-wheel drive for $197 by weekly at 5.29% APR for 60 months with $2,995 down. That's $599 a week.
The Ford, it's a big deal event. Visit your Ontario Ford store or Ford.ca. Hey guys, Willie Geist here, reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit-Down podcast. On this week's episode, I sit down with one of the biggest bands in the world, Mumford & Sons, as we get the boys together to talk about their new number one album, Prizefighter, and the evolution of that irresistible foot-stomping sound.
You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts. Get the best of NBC News with a subscription. Fewer ads, deeper access, and exclusive content. And now, during the Xfinity Member Celebration, members can get an exclusive 50% off an annual subscription.
Head to Xfinity.com slash membership to learn more. Xfinity, imagine that. Subscription automatically renews each year at $65.99 plus taxes and fees until canceled. Offer ends May 20th, 2026.
Price is subject to change. Visit NBCNews.com slash Xfinity for full offer terms and details. Welcome back with less than a month until health insurance premiums are set to skyrocket for millions of Americans. Democrats today unveiled a plan to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits for three years and prevent premiums from spiking.
Look. The bill, a clean three-year extension of ACA tax credits that Democrats will bring to the floor of the Senate for a vote next Thursday, and every single Democrat will support it. Republicans have one week to decide where they stand. If Republicans block our bill, there's no going back.
We won't get another chance to halt these premium spikes before they kick in at the start of the new year. Those insurance premiums in January will land like a hammer blow on the American people. But the Democrats' bill is likely to fail, as many Republican senators have already made clear they don't support any extension of the ACA tax credits. And with Republicans still not offering a health care plan of their own, hope of a bipartisan agreement to avoid the health care cliff coming after the holidays appears to be dwindling.
Joining me now to discuss all of this from Capitol Hill is NBC News senior national politics reporter Sahil Kapoor. Sahil, thanks so much for being here. So talk about the strategy here. There you have Leader Schumer proposing this three-year extension that he knows is likely dead on arrival.
That's absolutely right, Kristen. And the reason is, senators see across both parties here that there's no deal to be had. And I'll give you both parties' perspective. Democrats say they've been eager to cut a deal for months now.
They've offered a one-year extension of this funding, a two-year extension. They've been willing to negotiate on things like income thresholds and making reforms and restrictions on this amount of funding. They even shut down the government over it, had the longest ever government shutdown in American history. And Republicans were simply unwilling to negotiate on that.
And I spoke just in the last couple of hours to Senator Angus King, who cut that deal to reopen the government because he was hopeful for a health care deal. He told me he no longer sees a path to that, in part because Republicans are demanding stricter abortion restrictions, which is, unlike the other thing that I mentioned, a deal breaker for the Democrats. And the Republican perspective is, this funding was passed under President Biden on a party-line vote by Democrats. This is tied to the Affordable Care Act, a law they've never liked, that they've never supported.
And they're not, when they have the trifecta, going to do something that, in their view, is propping up Obamacare. The problem is, Kristen, at the end of the day, we can talk about, you know, process and procedure and bipartisanship and whatnot on the Hill. There are millions of Americans who will suffer if nothing happens here. And the Republicans' problem is they do not have an alternative.
But here's the thing, Sahil, there have been some bipartisan proposals floated today. For example, Representatives Higgins and Gottheimer offered their own framework, which would include a two-year extension of the ACA subsidies. And there have been others. Why aren't these gaining traction?
Yeah, there are a couple of bipartisan proposals, mostly in the House, for an ACA funding extension. This new one from Gottheimer and Higgins includes 15 Republicans and 20 Democrats. But the answer to your question, Kristen, is that it's the same group of 12 to 15 House Republicans that are the only ones who want to do anything about extending ACA funds. Most of them aren't swing districts.
They will feel the political pain most acutely. And they have the most political incentive and impetus to want to do something about this. But outside those 15 Republicans, which, remember, it's a small fraction of this conference, the vast majority of them want this ACA funding to go away entirely, which is why Speaker Mike Johnson candidly has not given these members the time of day on the floor. He has not given any indication that these bills are going to come to the floor, that he's going to allow an ACA funding continuation in any form at this time.
So, Sahil, given that, what are the potential political implications for both parties? Twenty-two million Americans are going to see their premiums increase, in many cases double, on average double. It could be as much as tripling for Americans next year, just in a few weeks starting in January if nothing happens. So that would be a significant political hit to very likely the party in power, who tends to get blamed for this stuff.
In the same way that President Biden and the Democrats got blamed when costs went up on their watch, whatever they wanted to say about the reasons, they're the ones who ended up getting blamed. This is where I think Republicans are likely to have to come up with a pretty good explanation for this if nothing happens from a policy standpoint. Kristen. Yeah, the midterms are nigh.
All right, Sahil, thank you so much for that great reporting and analysis, as always. Joining me now, today's panel, Julia Manchester, White House reporter for The Hill, Democratic strategist Joel Payne, and Michael Dubke, former Trump White House communications director. Thanks to all of you for being here. Julia, let me start with you.
It just doesn't seem like they are going to be able to reach an agreement on extending these health care subsidies. Unless I'm missing something, do you think there could be an 11th hour off-ramp here? I mean, I think there certainly is the incentive, obviously, for an 11th hour off-ramp for both parties. Obviously, of course, we want, you know, everyone who needs health care to have health care, have those subsidies if there isn't some sort of a replacement.
But also, we know that Republicans historically have struggled on this issue. And you're already seeing Democrats trying to go on the offense, going into the midterms on this issue of health care. And the comments that Speaker Johnson made to Melanie Zanona earlier today saying, relax, which he was asked about this. You know, I would imagine that Democrats are going to take that and run with it, because obviously when your health care could be in jeopardy, it's hard to relax about that.
Okay, so you take me. Let's hear that sound, actually. You are referencing our colleague Melanie Zanona, who did ask House Speaker Mike Johnson about this health care issue and the broader issue of affordability. Here's that exchange.
Look. The problem was created by the Democrats, not this administration and not this Republican Congress. We're the ones fixing it. So I would tell everybody, calm, common sense, competency.
That's what we're demonstrating here every day. You're exactly on the trajectory of where we've always planned to be. Stay at the wheel, everybody. It's going to be fine.
Our best days are ahead of us. America is going to be feeling a lot better in the early part of next year. Mike, do you buy that argument? And is that the right argument for the House Speaker?
Well, look, I think you're absolutely correct that this is going to be a big issue in the midterms. This is going to continue to be a big issue, affordability, one of the top issues for voters as we head more deeply into the midterms. Thanks guys. Great conversation, Julie, Joel, and Mike.
Really appreciate it. Coming up next, finding common ground. Senators Amy Klobuchar and Lindsey Graham sit down together to talk about bipartisanship in these polarizing times and their push to reunite thousands of Ukrainian children with their families after being kidnapped by Russian forces. That interview with Julie Serkin next on Meet the Press Now.
It's here. The Ford, it's a big deal. Not yet. The Ford, it's a big deal.
Oh guys, just wait. The Ford, it's a big deal event is on. Really? Now.
Hurry in to lease a 2026 Maverick XLT Hybrid all-wheel drive for $197 bi-weekly at 5.29% APR for 60 months with $2,995 down. That's like $99 a week. The Ford, it's a big deal event. Visit your Ontario Ford store or ford.ca.
Let's kickstart your wellness journey with the Start Today app. Workouts, meal plans. It's your fast track to a healthier you. And now during the Xfinity member celebration, members can get an exclusive 50% off an annual subscription.
Head to xfinity.com slash membership to learn more. Xfinity, imagine that. Subscription automatically renews each year at $65.99 plus taxes and fees until canceled. Offer ends May 20th, 2026.
Prices subject to change. Visit Today.com slash Xfinity for full offer terms and details. Stay informed with the NBC News app. Late news just coming in moments ago.
Watch, read, and listen throughout your day. And now, unlock even more with a subscription. It's the best of NBC News with fewer ad interruptions, including ad-free articles, podcasts, and full NBC News shows, plus deeper access and exclusive content. Let's just take a step back.
It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Welcome back. Turning now to the latest in the U.S.
efforts to end Russia's war in Ukraine. Special envoy Steve Wittkopf and President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, met today in Florida with a top Ukrainian official. The meeting comes two days after Wittkopf and Kushner met with Vladimir Putin in Moscow. And this first lady, Melania Trump, announced today that seven Ukrainian children who had been separated from their families have been reunited.
The first lady announced in October that she was communicating with President Putin in an attempt to reunify families torn apart by the war. Ukraine has accused Russia of abducting nearly 20,000 Ukrainian children since the start of the war. It's an issue that has drawn bipartisan condemnation on Capitol Hill. In the latest edition of our Finding Common Ground series, NBC's Julie Serkin sat down with Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham to discuss their work to hold Russia accountable and their broader efforts at working across the aisle.
Why did you partner together on the issue of Ukrainian children who have been abducted? Ladies first. So Lindsey and I actually have worked together on Ukraine issues for a long time. My first trip to Ukraine was with John McCain and Lindsey Graham.
And that was after the first invasion. And from the very beginning, Lindsey has stood up on New Year's Eve in the middle of a blizzard with John McCain. And we were in the Donbass region. We were there for a number of days.
And through thick or thin, he has stood with the Ukrainians. And I've always really admired him for that and the fact that we've been able to make this a bipartisan issue has been really important through two different administrations. So the kids, I'm a former prosecutor and a mom. And to me, the fact that you have thousands and thousands of kids that were stolen and taken away from either their families or an orphanage, a number of the ones that I met recently in Rome when the Pope took a visit with us and with the kids was about actually teenagers who were taken when one was the mom was killed.
Another was just taken from a school and they have the wherewithal because they're teenagers to get a phone from someone and they're able to call their grandma in one case. And she was with us and they were able to get them out. And the Vatican's been really involved in negotiating a number of kids release. But the fact that Putin thinks it's OK to take kids out of orphanages and away from their families just shows the evil we're dealing with and why it is so important for us to stand with Ukraine, the sovereign state that has taken all the bloodshed and basically stopped Putin from marching right through Ukraine to other allies, NATO countries.
Yeah, so number one, I found out about this issue through her. She had a resolution, I think, basically a Senate resolution condemning Putin for, you know, taking 19,000 plus kids out of occupied territories, sending the Russian trying to turn them into Russians. I didn't really know anything about it. And I thought, Amy and a few others.
And I said, when you list the bad things of this war, the list is long. I put this near the top. I mean, for any century, this is an outrage. Most people don't know that in the occupied territories of Ukraine, the Russians have separated Ukrainian children from their families, sent them back to Russia, put them in reeducation camps, sent them to the front lines to fight for Russia and their Ukrainian kids, trying to wipe out their identity as Ukrainians.
And I want the world to know about it. They cannot be addressed at the end of this war until these kids are accounted for. The issue with kids is something you two have partnered on a lot, even when it comes to tech. The only issues I feel like where there's any bipartisanship now is tech and Ukraine.
That's what it feels like. But those are two big ones. Those are two good ones. Yeah, but there's also a lot of areas of disagreement.
I mean, Americans think that there's just so much stalemate in both parties. They don't trust Congress. They don't trust the media either. But how do you how do you rebuild that trust?
So I just think of courage is not just standing by yourself, giving a speech to an empty Senate chamber, but courage is whether or not you're willing to stand with someone you don't always agree with for the betterment of this country. And to me, that tech issue is they're not literally the interests have pushed so hard that nothing has really passed, not a privacy law and not any kind of liability when it comes to getting kids hooked on drugs or seeing pornography. And Senator Cruz and I did pass in one bill this year with the president's support that they have to take down nonconsensual porn. And that is in within 48 hours.
But that's really the first one that's passed. And so Senator Graham is thinking big on this from the beginning. I said they have to be responsible. And I joined him in those efforts.
Yes, you did. And, you know, we're taking on the biggest companies in the history of the world. These companies make a gob of money through advertising. The more eyeballs, the more money they charge for ads.
There was a time when we needed to make sure the internet would be up and running and flourish. You know, Al Gore invented it. We want to make sure it worked well. Well, we've come to the point now where the dark side has to be dealt with.
What is the mood like? I mean, you've both been here for a while. Is there just as much vitriol behind the scenes as it appears to be online and on television? If you know Amy, she's very determined.
She embraces her causes. And I'm like, well, I agree with the cause. And I like people who are passionate about what they do. She's determined and I'm determined, too, to hold Putin accountable for kidnapping 20,000 children.
And when he says he hadn't, he's a liar. And we can't end this war with this unaccounted for because it'll happen again and again. When it comes to social media, every parent out there and grandparent, you know what we're talking about. I mean, she cares.
I care. All of us care. But why a few people? A lot of people in politics now are new.
And the reward for solving problems is a lot less than for yelling. And I don't want to just be up here yelling all my life. I'd like to solve problems that matter to people. And you'll find out pretty quick in both caucuses, who you can go to if you need to get something done that makes sense.
And Amy is on top of the list. If you can convince her this is just cause she'll jump in. I'd like to be considered somebody that if you convince me it makes sense, I want to get outcomes. And I can't think of a better use of my time or her time than giving relief to parents and grandparents suffering from their children and grandchildren having their lives turned up down by social media.
I can't think of a better cause than trying to get 20,000 kids back with their family. So is that pool of lawmakers that Senator Graham is just talking about, is it growing or is it shrinking? It depends on different issues. That's right.
Surprising people will work together. It happens all the time. You know, Rainn Paul's been working on the tariffs. Like there are there are an interesting group.
So people do work. People have worked across the aisle on different things. So I hope it's increasing. And I will say, you know, when you ask me about what it's like, people behind closed doors do have cordial relationships in the Senate.
There's only 100 of us. And it's part of it is, you know, it's one thing to work together, but then, you a pregnant woman who might not even know that she's been infected to her baby during delivery and giving the vaccine within those first 24 hours after the baby is born, like you said, dramatically cuts the risk that the baby will get sick. This has been standard practice for more than 30 years. Pediatricians tell me there's no evidence that there's any safety issues with that shot.
But critics say that they're concerned that the shot might produce a fever in a small baby. And, you know, a fever in a baby isn't necessarily harmful. What they're concerned about is that there might be interventions done on that child, like blood work, to determine the cause of the fever. Kristen.
Well, what exactly would the change in guidance mean for those who want to opt into the vaccine at birth? Yes. So remember, the CDC recommendations are just that they're not mandatory. So families who still want to get the shot theoretically could do so, but access would indeed be impacted because CDC recommendations help determine insurance coverage, including for programs like Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program.
Kristen, 37 million kids are in those programs. Wow. All right, Erica, thank you so much for your reporting. We really appreciate it.
And silicone tensions boiling in the Middle East and the future of President Trump's peace plan between Israel and Hamas. Israel's ambassador to the U.S. joins us in studio next. You're watching Meet the Press Now.
Welcome back. Israel's military confirmed it carried out strikes in southern Gaza yesterday with the IDF saying it was in response to an attack earlier in the day that injured five Israeli soldiers. This was the scene as a fire broke out in a tent encampment following that strike. It's the latest incident of violence testing President Trump's ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas that went into effect in October.
And it comes after Israel announced it would reopen the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt in the coming days, but only for people to exit from Gaza to Egypt. Officials in Egypt, however, denied they are coordinating with Israel to reopen the border crossing, adding that if an agreement is reached to reopen the crossing, movement would have to be open in both directions. Joining now is the Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Michael Leiter. Ambassador Leiter, thank you so much for being here.
Good to be with you, Kristen. We really appreciate it. It's an honor to have you here. I want to start off by talking about the state of the ceasefire in Gaza right now.
How would you describe it? Is it still holding? Do you anticipate it will continue to hold? Very hopeful, but concerned.
We're delighted that the administration was able to maneuver into a ceasefire, get almost all of our hostages released. We still have one body that we expect to bring home. We're waiting for that so we can move into phase two, which is the disarming of Hamas and the demilitarization of Gaza, which will open up a whole vista of hope, both for the Gazans and for Israelis. Well, you say you're concerned.
Tell me what the root of your concern, what your potential skepticism is at this point. You know, the West very often miscalculates, misunderstands that there are people with ideas, ideas that are very often very hostile to the West, very hostile to Israel. And Hamas believes, I mean, they're an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was just outlawed and sanctioned by the president through an executive order. And they believe in the destruction of Israel.
And they're not actually coming and delivering their arms and saying, mea culpa, we made a mistake. We'd like to live side by side. They're still committed to this idea of repeating October 7th. We can't let that happen.
We can't have jihadis at our border. So hopefully, yes, but concerned that it's going to be very difficult to get Hamas to actually give up on their arms and admit defeat. Well, the Hamas-run Palestinian Health Ministry says 350 people have been killed in the Gaza Strip since the October ceasefire went into effect. Is Israel still committed to abiding by the terms of the ceasefire?
Well, of course, we're committed to abiding by the terms of the ceasefire. But Christian, you just quoted the Gaza Health Ministry. I mean, that's like quoting, you know, MS-13 social welfare ministry. These people are terrorists.
What number would you say? How many people do you think have been killed since the ceasefire went into effect? We hope it's a minimal amount as possible. We're not interested in killing people.
We're interested in providing defense for our civilians that were slaughtered on October 7th. And if they come over the line with guns, which they do constantly, they pop out of these tunnels that they've built, these terror tunnels that they've built with international funds. They pop out of nowhere and shoot at our civilians and at our soldiers. So we have to return fire.
We're trying to limit it as much as possible. We want the ceasefire to hold. We will do everything we can that the ceasefire holds. But we're not going to allow Hamas to reconstitute their terror intentions.
Do you think that the terms of the ceasefire have been violated on either side at this point? Because as you say, you say that you're fighting in self-defense. But given that there has been this level of violence, is that a violation on either side of the ceasefire? You know, firefighters often use force to put out a fire.
We're not on equal footing. This is a terrorist organization and we have an army that belongs to the democratically elected government of Israel. We are intent on keeping the ceasefire, but we're fighting with terrorists. And they lie and they cheat and they kill.
Let me ask you about the Rafah crossing. Egypt says it will only open the Rafah crossing if movement goes both ways, both in and out of Gaza. What can you tell us about the state of reopening the Rafah crossing? Will it be reopened?
First of all, it's really important that finally Egypt is agreeing to the Rafah crossing being open and that people can leave. During the course of these years of warfare, there were many Gazans that wanted to leave but couldn't because Egypt refused to open up the crossing. So if it's about to be open, we're very enthusiastic. And I think the issue about if it's two-way or one-way will be discussed with the Egyptians.
We have a delegation actually in Egypt right now as we're talking. Less publicized, but actually we're talking. That's what's very important. The 20-point peace plan does say the Rafah crossing should be open in both directions.
Given that, is Israel committed to ultimately making sure that it is open in both directions? Of course, we just have to be ultimately committed as well that guns are not once again being transported to Hamas inside Gaza through the Rafah crossing. We have to make sure the Rafah crossing is secure. You talk about the challenge of implementing this next phase.
Hamas laying down its weapons, as you say, is going to be one of the toughest parts of that. How do you work with your U.S. partners to actually make sure that happens? And do you think that it's possible?
I do think it's possible, but it's not just a matter of laying down the weapons. There are 300 miles of underground tunnels. They're terror tunnels that were created by Hamas. They have to be destroyed.
Otherwise, the arms are going to go down below. It's not only machine guns. We're talking about shoulder-range missiles. We're talking about all sorts of weapons that have to be destroyed and taken out of the hands of Hamas.
Hamas cannot rule us again. I think that the fact that the 20-point plan that President Trump implemented calls directly and unequivocally, unambiguously, for the disarming of Hamas means that we're on the same page. It's going to get done. That's why we're so hopeful.
Okay. All right. Ambassador Leiter, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
Thank you, Kristen. It's good to be with you. Great to have you. And we are back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now.
There is more ahead on NBC News Now.