Meet the Press NOW – December 8

If it's Friday, prosecutors file a new indictment against Hunter Biden just days before House Republicans are expected to formally launch an impeachment inquiry into the president and his family's business dealings. Plus major explosion seen in Gaza as Israel's offensive against Hamas intensifies amid new criticism from the US and dire warnings from the UN to reduce civilian deaths. And Senate negotiators are back at the table on a deal to address the nation's border and send urgent funding to Ukraine and Israel before it's too late. Welcome to Meet the Press Now I'm Kristen Welker in Washington.

We begin with the legal and political fallout from the second criminal indictment of President Biden's son, Hunter Biden, which comes as House Republicans prepare a formal vote next week to launch an impeachment inquiry into the president. Late yesterday, the Justice Department special counsel David Weiss indicted Hunter Biden on nine tax-related charges, including three felonies. And a scathing 56-page indictment, prosecutors accuse Hunter Biden of a multi-year scheme to avoid paying more than a million dollars in taxes while spending that money instead to support a lavish lifestyle. The indictment notes that Hunter Biden's alleged transgressions happened both during his struggles with drug addiction and after he became sober.

Minutes ago, Hunter Biden's attorney spoke with my colleague Katie Tur, arguing that the indictment was politically motivated, citing less severe charges that prosecutors initially brought in June. What happened between June 20th and yesterday? The facts didn't change. They are exactly the same as they were.

The law didn't change, so you have to ask what changed. What changed was the enormous political pressure that was put on the US attorney. When he made a deal that was appropriate for what the facts in law showed, too, he decided I don't want that brief any longer. I don't want to be ridiculed by the Republican Party, which I'll remember.

Not the White House President Biden did not speak to reporters as he departed, but he has made it clear in previous public statements he will stand by his son. My son is not nothing wrong. I trust him. I have faith in him and it impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of him.

President Biden has not mentioned in the indictments, but Republican lawmakers are using it as proof their investigation must continue. And his evidence that President Biden wasn't truthful about his son's business dealings during the 2020 campaign, which he denies. There are a lot of questions, and I think that the nine-count indictment certainly ends fuel to the fire. And the evidence are what should guide everything, not politics.

And so far, the facts and the evidence that have come out are pretty damning and contradict what Joe Biden said during the 2020 presidential election. This indictment puts the White House in a state of heightened political uncertainty and anxiety. It also leaves the Justice Department and Attorney General Merrick Garland now balancing multiple criminal trials and indictments and investigations tied inextricably to the 2024 presidential election, in which one candidate will be campaigning on trial as the other campaigns with his son on trial. Joining me now is NBC News investigation scores on it, Tom Winter.

NBC's Ryan Nobles is on Capitol Hill, and NBC's Ali Raffa is at the White House. Tom, I want to start with you. You have been covering this from the very beginning. Walk us through this indictment.

What exactly is Hunter Biden accused of? Well, he's accused of a couple of different things, Kristen, and to kind of play off with his attorney, I think Lo was saying that, yes, there was a set of facts that were agreed to back in June. There was a set of facts that were supposed to be pleaded guilty to in July. What has changed here, Kristen, is that they've now added the idea that Hunter Biden had real intent here, according to the allegations, in filing his taxes in the way that he did.

It's not just that he didn't file them on time. It's not that he didn't pay them on time, but they say he took active steps, and this is according to the indictment, to evade US taxes. And one of the things that they used in putting that together is checking what he filed with the IRS with what he said in his own words. And one of the people we spoke to about that several weeks ago is the person who opened this case, and that's IRS criminal investigator, Joseph Ziegler.

Let's take a listen. When you compared information on the tax return, that's being prepared in the same time period that he's writing his memoir, and he's making statements in his memoir that completely contradict statements that are being made on the tax return. So if you're stating in your memoir that you were, for example, you were kicked out of the Chateau-Mermau, and in your tax return, you are making a deduction for the Chateau-Mermau. The statement you made in your book tells me that that's a personal deduction.

You're claiming it as a business deduction. So that's what goes into criminal intent, that there's knowledge there that he knew this was a personal deduction, but in fact, took it as a business deduction. Some of prophetic words a couple of weeks ago when we spoke with Ziegler, Kristen, and I think when you look at this indictment today, you look at an effort to really lay out all of the conduct, and some of it even goes back to 2014, even though not necessarily those years are charged. So where this goes from here, time will tell, but obviously we have a trial, a potential of a trial in an election year.

So Tom, you're absolutely right. I mean, it's just an extraordinary backdrop to the 2024 campaign. Talk a little bit about the strategy that we're seeing from Hunter Biden's attorney, Abilow quite defiant today, basically trying to dismiss these charges as politically motivated. Right, and what we're not hearing from Abilow, and I listened to the entirety of the interview we did with our colleague Katie Tur, was him addressing it all really the conduct.

It's alleged here. A lot of the conduct that's alleged here is what Hunter Biden was going to plead guilty to, which is that he failed to file on time, something that if he magically joined us right now on set, I think he would readily say is the case. Those are Mr. Mater counts.

It's the felony stuff that really kind of jams them up. So they're going to try to attack this as a politically motivated or selective prosecution in advance. But the chances of those types of motions working, Kristen, are really slim and numb. Great reporting, great interview there several weeks ago with the IRS whistleblower, Tom.

Thank you so much, Ryan, and both. Let me turn to you because you're there on Capitol Hill as Republicans are gearing up for a potential vote on an impeachment inquiry next week. What if any of these charges have? Kristen, I think that there's no doubt that there is a huge political implication to all of this for the president and this impeachment inquiry that is only beginning to ramp up here on Capitol Hill.

And the dynamics that are really at play right now on Capitol Hill involve the fact that this impeachment inquiry started without a formal vote in the House of Representatives. And that was in part because Republicans didn't have the votes in order to formally launch the impeachment inquiry. And now they're at a stage where they're trying to compel witnesses. One of them is Hunter Biden under subpoena to come here and testify before their committees.

And his attorney, Abby Lullis, saying that he doesn't have to because it hasn't been formalized with an impeachment inquiry vote. Well, now we expect that to happen next week. And the timing of this indictment, I think in many ways, provides a level of cover for the Republicans in their investigation. As you saw in that sound, but you played earlier with Michael Lawler, who is an upstate New York representative, someone who sits in a district that President Biden won in 2020.

He's now saying he's ready to vote for the impeachment inquiry. And he's specifically pointing to the information that was revealed in this indictment as part of the reason why he believes the impeachment inquiry needs to expand. Now, that all being said, Kristen, and you've already pointed it out, but President Biden is not mentioned at all in this indictment. There's not even a hinge of President Biden in this indictment.

And really, the case for impeachment is that President Biden did something that rose to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. Republicans aren't anywhere near that yet in terms of the evidence that they collected. But this is just a continuation of the slow ball rolling down a hill that Republicans are betting is going to be a huge political liability for President Biden leading into the 2024 campaign. I know it's going to be a busy week ahead for you, Ryan Nobles.

Ali, let me turn to you at the White House, because there's the political impact of this and then the personal impact of this for President Biden. This is his son that we are talking about. And as we have reported, administration officials feel as though they have to be very careful about how they advise him as it relates to this situation. What are you hearing inside the White House, Ali?

Yeah, Kristen, we had a reporting out surrounding these developments in the President's son's legal woes months ago. And we know from White House officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity, who said that it was the equivalent of, quote, walking on edge shelves around the president. As we know, this is a president who is extremely devoted and close to his family. We've seen time and time again that he gets very protective and defensive when speaking about his family, when specifically answering questions about his son Hunter and these legal woes.

And I think you got a sense of how heavily this is weighing on the president, just from the clip you played at the top there of that brisk walk by the president, walking past reporters as they ask the president about his latest development, these new indictments, walking to Marine One. And the president and White House officials fully expect these peppering of questions to continue in the coming days as we're just learning of these indictments, these new charges that were even worse than expected or that we previously knew about Kristen. All right, Ali Rafa at the White House. Appreciate your reporting very much.

Thank you. And joining me now is Chuck Rosenberg. He's a former US attorney, a former senior FBI official and an NBC News contributor. Chuck, thanks so much for joining me.

Good to see you. Nice to see you, Kristen. So, Chuck just set the stage. If you would, what are your key takeaways from this?

We are talking about nine charges. Three of them are felonies. How serious are these charges? Felonies are always serious.

And if the allegations and the indictment can be proved in a court of law, I assume they can. It's a very bad day for Hunter Biden. In terms of what we're hearing from Hunter Biden, his attorney, Abi Lowell, said this and I want to just read this to you and then get your reaction to this. He says, based on the facts and the law, if Hunter's last name was anything other than Biden, the charges in Delaware and now California would not have been brought.

What do you make of that? And what do you make of that as a defense, Chuck? Yeah, I have a couple of reactions to it. If his name wasn't Hunter Biden, he wouldn't have been paid millions of dollars by entities in China and Ukraine either.

So there's some benefits associated to the name and there are some costs. But I'm not sure it's true that he wouldn't have been charged. I think what Mr. Lowell is basically formulating is a defense strategy where he's going to argue that his client, Hunter Biden, was selectively prosecuted.

That's a sort of prosecutorial misconduct allegation. It's tethered to the 14th Amendment. You can't prosecute people based on race or creed or color or religion. And I know we would all agree with that.

And what Mr. Lowell is saying is that Hunter Biden is being prosecuted for another impermissible category, his political affiliation, his father's job, his last name. It's going to take a lot of evidence for that to succeed in court. It's one thing to say it on television, Kristen.

It's quite another to produce it in court. And from what I've seen, at least in the public record, there are plenty of very good reasons to charge Hunter Biden with tax evasion, including that he apparently evaded his taxes. So I don't know that this succeeds other than in the political arena. Well, speaking of the political arena, I was just talking to Ryan Nobles about the fact that Republicans are potentially going to move to open an impeachment inquiry into President Biden.

Chuck, as we made very clear at the top of this broadcast, this indictment does not mention President Biden at all. Is there anything, anything that could be problematic for President Biden within that context? Within the indictment, no, I don't see it. I mean, I've read the indictment, Chris.

And other than someone that he loves very much has been charged with a bunch of federal crimes. It's a bad day for Hunter Biden. It's also a bad day for the president. But that said, you know, as well as I, that impeachment is a political act, not a legal act.

And if members of Congress see fit to indict, I'm sorry, excuse me, impeach the sitting president, then it's a political act. And so don't, I wouldn't conflate the two. The fact that there's no evidence in the indictment concerning President Biden doesn't seem to slow their role. But it's a political act.

What I'm really focused on is the implications for Hunter Biden and the implications in a court of law. That's where evidence actually matters. You have said that one of the things that stands out to you is that one of these charges relates to after Hunter Biden says that he was no longer dealing with his addiction problems. What are your key takeaways and how significant is that piece of this indictment?

Sure. So a couple of the returns were filed in 2020 when Hunter Biden was allegedly sober. In order to prove a criminal tax case, you have to prove that a defendant acted intentionally, not by accident or a mistake or inadvertence. Making a mistake on your tax return is not a crime.

It's a mistake. It's taking false business deductions and then submitting the return under your signature is a crime. And so those returns that were filed and were filed falsely when Mr. Biden was sober, sharp of mind, are a problem for him.

And by the way, if I may have one thing, I know some people have argued that Mr. Biden voluntarily paid what he owed. But he did that after the investigation again. And so that's not a voluntary disclosure.

It's like robbing a bank. And then when the FBI starts knocking on doors in your neighborhood, looking for you, you return the money to the bank. It's not really an act of contrition. It's really an admission.

It's a really important piece of the context. Let's talk timeline. What will you be watching for in terms of how this case unfolds? Could and would you expect Hunter Biden to be in court in the coming months?

And I say that in part because former President Trump, who's of course an actual political candidate, is facing four separate indictments. We are anticipating a court date for him in March. What's the timeline you're looking at here? You know, that's a great question.

So we've already seen in many of the cases affecting Mr. Trump that some judges move their dockets quickly and some move them slowly. And it's hard to know how the judge assigned to the Hunter Biden case will move his or her docket. Do I expect that this case will be tried in 2024?

I really don't. I do expect we'll see motions and arguments and all sorts of procedural happenings in the case. But getting this case to trial quickly, I think is a big lift. Is it possible?

Sure. But it's all going to turn on the judge. And if that judge can move their case with some alacrity, if they can manage their document appropriately, it's possible I wouldn't put a lot of money on it. Okay.

And just as we continue to look toward the future, the special counsel has been very clear that this investigation is ongoing. It's a point that they made after they first indicted Hunter Biden on gun charges and then came these new charges. Should we take that to mean that there could be more charges coming? Well, I would take them at their word.

I mean, the fact that it's ongoing doesn't mean that it's ongoing only with respect to Hunter Biden. They may have come across other crimes in the course of their investigation. They have a duty to run that down. Nor does it mean that other people will be charged.

It means an investigation is ongoing. If prosecutors have a good faith basis to run an investigation, then by all means they ought to run it. And then we will see where it leads. It may lead nowhere.

We shouldn't get ahead of it. But we should take them at their work that they have worked to do. Okay. Well, we will do that.

Chuck Rosenberg. Thank you for helping us break down a complicated set of legal facts. Really appreciate it and good to see you. And coming up, faith, fear and fallout on campus.

We're live at the University of Pennsylvania where the school's president is facing mounting pressure from students, lawmakers and deep pocketed donors over her congressional testimony about anti-Semitism. But first, dire new warnings from the UN and new concerns from the White House as Israel's assault on Hamas intensifies. We'll have the very latest developments in the war next. You're watching the press now.

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The UN is warning today that the Gaza Strip is on the brink of collapse. Smoke and explosions could be seen in Gaza once again today as Israeli forces say they struck 450 more Hamas targets. The IDF also says it has found more Hamas tunnels. This time under a university in Gaza City.

Meanwhile, a Tel Aviv siren's forced a crowd to scatter from what has been dubbed hostages square. In Gaza, the desperation is growing and civilians face ongoing shortages of food, water and shelter. Today, the UN Secretary-General warned of a looming humanitarian crisis. There is a high risk of the total collapse of humanitarian support system in Gaza, which should have devastating consequences.

We anticipate that it will result in a complete breakdown of public order and increased pressure for mass displacement into Egypt. The people of Gaza are being told to move like human pinballs, reco-shifting between ever smaller slivers of the sauce without any of the basics for survival. But nowhere in Gaza is safe. And yesterday, Secretary of State Antony Blinken offered rare criticism in Israel after repeated calls for them to do more to protect civilians.

It remains imperative that Israel put a premium on civilian protection. And there does remain a gap between exactly what I said when I was there, the intent to protect civilians and the actual results that we're seeing on the ground. It comes as the US is working to increase the flow of aid in to Gaza. In official telling NBC News that Karam Shalom Crossing from Israel in to Gaza is set to be reopened in the coming days.

Joining me now from Israel is MBC's Hal Ghurani. Halah, thank you for joining us once again. We are now one week removed from the end of that temporary ceasefire. What is the very latest on the ground in Gaza and on the efforts to try to resume a temporary truce?

Well, you laid it out there very well. The humanitarian situation is becoming more and more dire by the day. E-5% of Gazans have been internally displaced inside a strip of land that's about twice the size of Washington, DC. So you can imagine just how crowded the southern half of the Gaza Strip is.

The UN, which by the way, just voted on a resolution sponsored by the UAE. It was vetoed by the United States, failed to adopt this call for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. All other members except the UK voted in favor. The UK abstaining on this one.

But the UN is saying that the hospital system has pretty much collapsed in the north. And of the 36 hospitals that were operational before October 7, only 14 are able to treat patients. So it gives you a sense of just how dire the situation is. And it's not just those who are wounded in the airstrikes and in the violence, but for people who just need basic medical care.

They're just unable to get any kind of care. They're pregnant women who are giving birth and refugee camps. And this is, I think, what the UN Secretary-General was referring to when he was saying that really you're looking at a society on the brink of collapse, Kristen. Ooh.

And the image is just truly devastating there, Hala. And the US is saying that Karim Shalom Crossing will open. What are you looking for in terms of the timeline of that? So it's unclear, hopefully in the next few days, what's important to note is the Karim Shalom Crossing, which is inside of Israeli territory.

It won't be used for transit. It will be used for checking of the cargo. Before October 7, Karim Shalom was where the big sort of commercial vehicle traffic took place and the rough off crossing that is now being used for the humanitarian aid, for the funneling of humanitarian aid, is usually a passenger terminal. So what this will do is this will speed up the checking process, but then trucks will still have to drive to Raffan.

You see it there on the map through the Egyptian side of the border into the Gaza Strip. But hopefully at the very least, this will make things go a little bit faster, Kristen, especially once we hope the flow of traffic increases with more desperately needed aid. Yeah, any movement in that regard is certainly a welcome development. I do have to ask you by these claims about these claims that Hamas is making that multiple hostages were killed in Gaza City.

Has there been any confirmation of this? What is the IDF saying, Hala? So we're unable to independently verify this on their telegram channel. They did put out a very graphic image of a soldier who looks deceased.

We cannot confirm this independently. We know that the IDF has said that two of their soldiers were wounded in a rescue attempt and the Hamas channel is confirming that part of the story as well. So it seems as though, at least from the two sources, what we're getting, we're getting a clear picture that there was a rescue attempt that two IDF soldiers were wounded. We cannot confirm that the hostage though was killed in the process, Kristen.

All right, Hala, Granny. Thank you so much for your reporting. Please again, do continue to stay safe. We really appreciate it.

We want to turn out to the rising anti-Semitism in America. Authorities are investigating a possible hate crime. After shots were fired outside of synagogue in Albany yesterday, the suspect is under arrest and charged with the federal crime of a legal possession of a firearm. Now it comes as there is increasing anger following that testimony from university presidents at an anti-Semitism hearing on Capitol Hill this week, University of Pennsylvania President Liz McGill is facing condemnation and also calls to step down.

And a major donor is threatening to withdraw $100 million from the school. Joining me now from Penn's campus is NBC's George Solis. So George, the president Liz McGill is facing a lot of pressure there. She has tried to walk back some of the comments that she made before Congress.

Is that going to be enough to save her job? What do you hear? Yeah, Kristen. Obviously this just keeps snowballing and snowballing.

Liz McGill did go ahead and post a video statement sort of walking back some of those comments, clearly saying condemning genocide of Jewish people, which is not such a clear answer that she gave on the Hill during that grilling for those five hours or so. So a lot of students and faculty here on campus saying it's not enough. It comes too little to late yesterday. There was a rally here on campus calling for her to resign.

And today we're hearing more and more calls from lawmakers, including lawmakers here in Pennsylvania now calling on her to step aside as well as the head of the Board of Trustees who appointed her. So again, it's now sort of entering that facet. And again, as we hear reaction from students, many of them saying they don't feel safe, saying things here at the University of sort of Snowball since the October 7th attack. And no student saying this is just further proving that a leadership change is needed here at the University for students and faculty to feel safe.

Take a listen to some of the comments that students made during that protest. I think that that statement is crazy and that this graceful depend, which has a vibrant Jewish community that needs to be loved and supported. I'm a Jewish student here. And I think that she needs to step back.

Do you feel supported here on campus? I feel supported by Penn Hallell and the amazing people there. I do not feel supported by the University of this region. And sort of the overarching thing here, Kristen, is that a major donor, a man who has donated millions to the University, who has a building here named Ross Stevens is now threatening to pull a $100 million donation unless Liz McGill steps down.

We are told that the board of trustees will meet this Sunday to further discuss her fate, Kristen. The pressure continuing to mount George Silly's thank you for that reporting and for that great interview. Really appreciate it. Coming up next, this critical aid for Ukraine hangs in legislative limbo.

I'll talk to a former ambassador to Russia about how the loss of U.S. resources could impact the war and emboldened President Putin. You're watching me at the press now. Stay with us.

Welcome back. Negotiations over America's border policy are back on as lawmakers rush to pass a major security assistance package that also includes funding for Ukraine and Israel. According to a democratic source familiar with the talks, lead negotiators resumed discussion yesterday on a new Republican proposal, but caution there is still a lot of daylight between the two sides. It comes after President Biden said earlier this week that he was willing to make quote significant compromises on the border.

Joining me now is Sahel Kapoor on Capitol Hill. Sahel, thank you so much for joining me. So the negotiations were off. Now they are back on.

But how much progress are they making towards an actual deal here? That's still TBD, Kristen. We don't know how serious these negotiations are. We do know that three top negotiators, Chris Murphy, the top Democrat, James Langford, the top Republican, and Kirsten Sinema, the Arizona Independent, who was involved in this issue, met for about an hour yesterday and Sinema's hideaway.

And Republicans are making a new proposal to try to break the log jam on one of the major sticking points here, which is the use of humanitarian parole. They want to severely curtail the president's ability to grant humanitarian parole at scale. There's also the question of asylum changes, which is an area where the negotiations have been going well, I'm told. Democrats have made serious concessions that Republicans are quite pleased with, including raising the so-called credible fear standard for asylum seekers to have their cases approved.

But we don't know if this new offer from Republicans is actually going to be agreeable by Democrats. It's highly unlikely in its current form. The next, the big question here is what Democrats say. Yes, you're right.

Of course, the Democrats or the president Biden really wants to deal because this is key. This immigration deal is absolutely critical to unlocking passage of that national security supplemental of Ukraine and Israel. The president Biden considers a very important priority. Given that, Sahil, we always talk about this.

Whenever there is a tough negotiation going on on Capitol Hill, what if any role is the president going to play? In this case, as you say, this is his ask, this is his supplemental request. And there does seem to be growing pressure, growing calls from Democrats and some Republicans who say we need the president to get engaged here. What are you hearing?

And do you anticipate that we will see president Biden get more engaged? There's certainly a view that the president is ultimately going to have to step in to try to close the deal. Not whether that happens when they are agreed on maybe 30% or 40%. It's more likely that it happens when they're about 70%, 80%, 90%.

And then the president steps in to close the deal. The White House, as you very well know, Kristen, is very cautious about how it approaches legislative negotiations. They don't like to put themselves front and center. That strategy worked for them quite well over the first two years of his presidency when they got a lot of legislative actions done.

So we do know that the White House has been involved behind the scenes. We know that White House staff has called Democratic senators to try to push them in the direction of a deal which has caused consternation among the progressive side of the party that doesn't want these immigration restrictions in place. It's still a little bit of a lie ball as to when the president himself will step in. But certainly he's going to have to have a role to play if he's going to bring his party along with what is going to be a deal that's certainly don't like.

That's a great point. Sahil, thank you so much. Great reporting. It's always great to see on this Friday.

Joining me now is Michael McFall, former U.S. ambassador to Russia and in NBC News, international affairs analyst. Thank you so much ambassador for being here. Really appreciate it.

Sure. So the White House is framing this as basically Ukraine is going to run out of funding by the end of the year. This would be a win for Putin if they can't get this done. How do you see the stakes of Congress acting on this getting this done by the end of the year?

The White House is right. Ukraine is running out of ammunition. They already are running out of ammunition. They already are running out of missiles for their air defense systems.

And so this doesn't get through. That means that it's more likely that more Ukrainian soldiers will die on the battlefield and more Ukrainian civilians will be killed by missiles coming in from Russia. It's just that simple. President Zelensky was here making his case in person several weeks ago.

It comes about a year after he made that surprise visit here to Washington, that joint address before Congress. And this moment feels so different ambassador. Why do you think support for Ukraine has fallen so much over the course of just a year? Well, it depends on who you're asking of its father.

Actually my opinion polls show that it hasn't fallen. The last major vote in the U.S. House of Representatives, it was a 300 to 100 vote in favor of new assistance. From everything I've read and I talk to senators as well, there's major support in the U.S.

Senate for aid to Ukraine. What's changed is that they've made a political decision to link that support to what you were just talking about regarding immigration reform. And I want to be crystal clear, I'm not an expert on immigration reform. These seems like reasonable things to be debating and discussing.

We definitely need better immigration policies in the United States for national security reasons. But why is it being linked to something that is also a vital national security interest that most people in the Congress actually agree to? Usually when you have this log rolling going on, it's a tit for tat. I'll give you something that you want and you give me something that I want.

What's happening here is Republicans are saying they want this, but they also want to want something else. And it just seems to me that that is not in the national interest, most certainly allowing Putin a victory in Ukraine does not advance American national security interests. Well, you take me to my next question. I want to let you listen to something that Senator Lindsey Graham said earlier this week and get your reaction on the other side.

I'm more worried about our border than Ukraine. You are. 100%. Have you always felt that way?

No. What changed your question? What's going on at the border? You talked to us for an entire year about the danger that Putin proposes to the world.

But I think we're more exposed here at home in the short term than Putin. Putin winning in Ukraine. Now, just to put Senator Graham's comments into context, he is a senator who has long said that funding Ukraine is important. So he's not saying we shouldn't be funding Ukraine.

He's saying, however, that what's happening at the border is more urgent. Either way, how does Putin hear that message coming from a senior lawmaker here? Well, first of all, why can't we walk into you gum at the same time? There's nothing that prevents the US Congress from dealing with these issues sequentially and have a debate about the issues.

I don't know if Lindsey Graham is right, but I do know that we should be able to do both at the same time. But to your excellent question, you don't have to ask me. Watch Russian television, or I watch Russian television, so you don't have to. You know what they're saying?

They are plotting Republicans right now. They are saying, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for making America look like we are not a credible partner to countries like Ukraine. And that has implications way beyond the war in Ukraine. That has implications to our allies and partners all over the world.

If Putin's propagandists are praising what you're doing, maybe you might want to reconsider what you're doing. Well, we appreciate that perspective from Russian TV. It really is insightful and fascinating. Thank you so much for joining us.

Really appreciate it. Thanks. After the break, the Trump obsession, our NBC News campaign embed has a revealing look at a group of Trump super fans who've appended their lives to follow the former president wherever he goes. We'll give you a look.

You're watching The Press Now. Stay with us. Welcome back up until just a few years ago, American politics had never seen anything like it. A politician receiving intense and unshakable loyalty from their supporters.

It has been a defining if a times volatile feature of Donald Trump's political life and his enduring power over his party. If you want to understand that loyalty, hit the campaign trail where our NBC News 2024 campaign embed Jake Trailler found a group of Trump super fans who literally want a front row seat to the action. Donald Trump rally notorious for drawing his most steadfast supporters. Chalk full of chanting crowds and merchandise mania here, a fandom around the former president is the norm.

But long before lines like this appear, a self-emittingly crazed club of Trump super fans have already been staking out the event site for days, sometimes weeks, camping out in their cars, intense to ensure their front row status. They call themselves the front row Joe's. We tried to come prepared. We bring warm weather clothes.

I didn't bring anything from my head. That's why I got a towel wrapped around my head. Sharon Anderson and Mike Boughman lead the group of roughly 50 ultra dedicated Trump supporters who first banded together in 2015. Upending their normal lives, they wrote trip across the country to as many Trump events as possible.

The former president himself recently taking notice. Look at the front row Joe's. We used to end up. These people they follow me all over the place.

They're the greatest. But you know what? They love our country. Mike just attended his 83rd Trump event.

And though he lives paycheck to paycheck, says he spent thousands of dollars to make this life not possible. Traveling as far as Alaska for a rally last year. The last year trip cost quite a bit. But it's not about the money really.

I'm not rich, but it's supporting Donald Trump. Showing my loyalty to Donald Trump. That loyalty is something Trump demands from his base. And the front row Joe's are first on the scene to deliver.

Despite on promises and aggressive rhetoric, they say Trump understands them in a way other politicians don't. As if they know him personally. I feel like he's my best friend. I don't have him on speed up.

But I feel like Donald Trump knows us. He goes out of the way to recognize the front row Joe's. He knows our faces. I don't know if he knows our names.

Even on personability over policy is consistent across Trump's entire MAGA base. And even with 91 felony charges against him that point to a possibility of prison, their support is unwavering. If he's convicted and he wins, put the Oval Office in whatever prison they have him in. It'd be kind of fun to see you actually.

I know that sounds crazy, but I mean if you come on the country that way. Like their leader, the front row Joe's say they are emboldened by each indictment. Traversing thousands of miles and braving severe weather and parking lots across America. This gang of Trump groupies say their loyalty won't be taking a back seat anytime soon.

Jake Trailer, Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It's a fascinating look at some of Donald Trump's most ardent supporters. Our thanks to embed Jake Trailer for that fantastic reporting. And still to come, politics froze in 2024.

We're digging deeper into the state of the race for the White House as the current president and his family face mounting legal and political scrutiny. You're watching Meet the Press Now. Our panel's next. The president's conduct will be what judges his own culpability, up or down.

Not what his son does. We're not held to account for what our children do in the same way children are not held to account for what their parents do from a legal perspective. But the president's gonna have to answer if he had any kind of involvement in any of this activity with Hunter. Welcome back.

That was Republican presidential candidate and former US attorney Chris Christie on with my colleague Andrea Mitchell reacting to the Hunter Biden indictment. Christie's reaction is relatively tame when it comes to what other Republicans have said about the president's son's legal issues. Joining me now on set NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba. Simone Sanders Townsend, former senior advisor to Vice President Harris and host of Simone on MSNBC.

Matthew Cottonetti, director of domestic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute and columnist at commentary magazine. Thanks to all of you for being here. So Monica, I want to start with you and just have you kind of set the scene. You obviously have been working your sources at the White House.

We both have covered the White House and this is so deeply personal for President Biden. But there's a political element to this as well. What are your sources telling you about how that responded? Undoubtedly, Kristen.

And this is something that really does take an emotional toll on the president, on the first lady who are really Hunter Biden's fierce defenders who will always it seems no matter the development, no matter these new charges come out and say simply we are proud of our son. We support him and we really hope he continues on this path to recovery that he has been on, of course, referencing his drug addiction and what we've seen since then. And in this time period, of course, where many of these allegations are rooted, that is what they come back to. At the same time, we have also seen the president in recent months say simply that he believes his son did nothing wrong.

And the political reality of squaring that with this blistering indictment that does lay out in lurid detail what Hunter Biden was doing allegedly to avoid paying his taxes. Well, that is a different answer that this president will certainly have to speak to. And earlier this week, and this comes, of course, just days before he's facing this potential impeachment inquiry vote, he was asked about these allegations. And what the White House is always pointing to is the fact that they believe there's nothing that links whatever Hunter Biden may have done here with his father as it relates to business dealings.

And they continue to point to the lack of that evidence as their defense. But the president weighed in this week and said all of that, any allegation that he was involved is pure lies and he said it no less than three times. Defiance, as Monica reports from President Biden and Simone, we are talking about a president's something so not allegations against the president himself, as Monica has said, Republicans have yet to try to draw that line between Hunter Biden's business dealings and President Biden and yet, politically speaking, this is unwelcome news for the White House and for Democrats. But imagine how much concern is there based on your conversations?

I think there's concern as to Monica alluded to, just how the president and the first lady are feeling that campaign individuals and the effect on the broader White House apparatus less so. I think it is very, very, very important to underscore that like, Hunter Biden may have done some things. There was a, and I saw Chuck Rosenberg going with you, there was a plea deal back in June that fell apart. In court, as we all saw it happen, everyone was shocked by the plea deal falling apart.

And now from that plea deal, now there's new, I guess the investigators read Hunter Biden's book and tried to swear to circle. None of that though has anything to do with President Biden. I do think it's important this is the finance from the president. I think it was about time for Joe Biden to get a little indignant and say, this has nothing to do with me.

Let's, let's, let's get off of that. Because if they do not do that, if it is not aggressive from the president and the campaign apparatus at large, there is the potential for the waters to get murky. I was talking back to 2020 during that campaign that I advise, very aggressive about the Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, no link, it had to be aggressive because if not, there's confusion that can see pan and even U.S. President go, then candidate, go to town halls and still have to answer questions.

Well, and it's about those questions that continue to loom and Matthew, this does come, of course, as Republicans are signaling that they're going to hold this vote on an impeachment inquiry. As we're saying, even some top Republicans are saying there still hasn't been this link established some Republicans who I've been talking to and I even spoke to Governor Ronda Santas on the record on the press last Sunday and he expressed concerns that this is not necessarily what's top of mind for American voters. Is there a concern about this backfiring? I think in some quarters of the Republican party there's a concern that may backfire.

But I also think it's important to understand that the way in which the story is being treated within the beltway may be slightly different than the way the story is perceived outside the belt. He set this in the context of President Biden's approval ratings, which are continuing to fall under 40% now on the averages. When you look at some of the attributes that voters see in President Biden, he is no longer seen as this upright, honest, broker or pragmatic dealmaker. He is seen as someone who has been ethically compromised whether it's true or not by his association with his son's business.

So if the House is able to start this inquiry with the vote, I do think it will feed into a larger critique of President Biden that is hurting him in the campaign. What about that? I do think the poll numbers are low. I mean, we all see the polling every week.

But even in the NBC News polling, it notes that voters have yet to associate what Hunter Biden has done with Joe Biden. Now, as things go on, that could change. But right now, the voters don't actually see him as ethically compromised on Hunter Biden. I think what does show up in the polling is that voters are not distinguishing between the corruption between Donald Trump and the corruption between Joe Biden.

That I think is going to be something that the campaign will need to parse out because if people are putting Joe Biden right up there with Donald Trump, it's a little murky. It's a little murky. We have a little bit of sound from Hunter Biden. We want to play a little bit of it and get some reaction on the other side.

I recognize that none of this is necessarily about me. They are trying to, in their most illegitimate way, but rational way, they're trying to destroy a presidency. And so it's not about me. In their most base way, what they're trying to do is they're trying to kill me, knowing that it will be a pain greater than my father could be able to handle.

So this was during an interview with the artist known as Moby Monica. How does the White House feel about Hunter Biden speaking out? Because isn't there like a faction of not just the White House, the campaign that just wants this to be swept under the rug? And for so long, Kristen, when we would see these legal developments, there would be questions, there would be debates internally about whether the president should keep his son close, whether he should be attending state dinners, whether he should be visible in public.

And there was a time there where they were saying, of course he's going to be close. Of course, the president is going to keep him at arms length because according to those close to him, he's worried that if he pushes Hunter away, there is a very real risk here of a relapse. That's something he has privately even told his aides, don't bring up Hunter with me. Don't tell me how to think about dealing with my own son and my family.

So there are some who even are very careful about even putting this into the political calculus for him. I would imagine that those conversations still go on with probably his inner circle because these are things that are being examined by a special counsel and we're talking about Hunter Biden potentially in two criminal trials while his father is seeking reelection. These things could be happening on this split screen that we have seen legally and politically. Yeah, and that split screen is what so many Democrats are so concerned about.

Simone, if you were advising Hunter Biden right now, politically, I mean, is this smart, does this help his dad to speak out? I mean, as Monica says, this is so personal. I think there's two questions. Does it help his father?

Yeah, that's right. And I think that it absolutely behooves Hunter Biden for Hunter to go out there and defend himself. Does it help the president for Hunter Biden to do podcast interviews? I don't necessarily think so.

But yet again, Hunter Biden is not checking with the campaign apparatus or the White House about what he does and vice versa. There is a real separation and the advisers to the president, the campaign advisers to the president's reelection campaign, they advise the president. They do not advise Hunter Biden. Matthew, just finally, I mean, former president Trump, who is an actual candidate, is facing 91 felony charges for different indictments.

It's only emboldened him in the primary if he were to go on and win denomination. What are the discussions like right now as we're less than 40 days away from Iowa about how it might impact him in a general? Well, so far the indictments have helped Donald Trump in the Republican primary and don't seem to have had an effect on his numbers in the general. There is, of course, a concern that if he is convicted before the election day, that could seriously harm his chances of winning.

But that might not happen. It might not be a split screen, Kristen. It might just be the Hunter Biden trials going on next year, not the Trump trials. All right.

We'll have to watch and see how it all unfolds. Great conversation, guys. Thank you, Monica Simone and Matthew. We will be back Monday with more Me The Press Now.

And if it's Sunday, it's me, The Press on your local NBC News stations. I have exclusive interviews with Senators Chris Murphy and Mitt Romney. So don't miss it. The news now coverage continues with Christine Romans and for Holly Jackson right now.