Meet the Press NOW — February 29

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Call on the experts that know how to beat the heat. Reliance conditions apply. See website for details. If it's Thursday, a split screen moment at the southern border as President Biden and former President Trump hold dueling events trying to pin the blame on for the border issues on each other and highlight the importance of the issue in the 2024 race.

Plus, the gift of time. The Supreme Court sides with Donald Trump agreeing to hear his sweeping claims of presidential immunity, delaying and maybe even dismantling his criminal trial on charges overturning the 2020 election. And the White House looking into a, quote, serious incident in Gaza that could significantly complicate hostage talks after the Israeli army confirms it fires on a crowd of people near humanitarian aid trucks. Welcome to NITA press.

Now I'm Yamiche in Washington. We are tracking a split screen moment in Texas for the former president and the current president as both men make separate visits to the southern border. It comes as the issues of border security and immigration are weighing heavily on voters heading into November. For Trump, the issue is familiar territory.

He is set to speak in Eagle Pass, Texas, any moment now as he tries to make a crisis at the border a centerpiece of his presidential campaign. Here's what he told reporters when he arrived in Eagle Pass. Nice weather, beautiful day, but a very dangerous border. We're gonna take care of it.

Thank you. In a recent NBC News poll, the former president holds a 35 point advantage over the current president on the issue. Republicans have accused President Biden of ignoring the crisis and House representatives impeached his top border official, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, earlier this month. Now, President Biden said his speak later this hour as Democrats try to flip the script on the issue, blaming Republicans for their failure to act on a bipartisan border legislation.

Now today, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer accused Republicans of bowing to former President Trump. Meanwhile, the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, attacked President Biden's border visit as a photo op. He's only seen 50 go twice and he's going for a photo op, as you said, to Brownsville, which is the 29th ranked hotspot on the border. Why would he go to the 29th ranked hotspot?

Because he doesn't really want to see the reality. President Biden knows the border is a serious problem and that's why he sat down with Republicans to draft the strongest, most comprehensive border bill America has seen in decades. Donald Trump deliberately sabotaged the very same boy reforms he spent years calling for because he wants to exploit the border for the campaign trail. But even as the president tries to point the blame toward Republicans, the administration is also recognizing the very real crisis in front of them.

We reported earlier this month the administration considering executive actions to try to mitigate a surge in migrants that has overwhelmed border communities and major cities across the country. Joining us now on the phone from Brownsville, Texas with President Biden, his NBC News senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez, Eagle Pass, Texas, with former President Biden, who former President Trump, actually, it's NBC's Dasha Burns. So, Gabe, now you're on the phone. But this, of course, President Biden's second trip to the border.

What does the hope what do you hope to accomplish today? I'm obviously have Republican saying that this is a photo op. How's he pushing back on that? Yeah, that's right, Yamiche.

Look, I'm inside the room where President Biden is expected any moment now. That's why I will be speaking a bit of a hush tone here. But you may be able to see a live picture. And along that wall, men and women ingrained members of the United States Border Patrol waiting to meet President Biden.

He's expected to speak here. The Border Patrol agents are standing behind the lectern. And the message that he will deliver, Yamiche, is one where he's expected to call out House Republicans for what he views as obstructionism and for torpedoing that bipartisan border deal that was negotiated in assent but has stalled in the House. President Biden wants to make it clear that that border deal have brought more immigration judges, would have brought more border patrol agents as well as detention beds here to the southern border.

Now, of course, this comes in nature, as you well know, as the White House tries to move its messaging on immigration, certainly immigration a top issue heading into the 2024 election. Over the past several years, frankly, the White House has preferred to talk about other things, hasn't always brought up immigration per se. They really are now seizing the opportunity, what they view as an opportunity after that bipartisan border deal was tanked. Now, in the last few minutes, President Biden actually visited the border itself.

We're right now just north of Brownsville at a different location. He met with DHS secretary of the Hong Kong Orchestra support some local leaders. We're told he's expected to get briefing here and operational briefing from other local leaders. Again, President Biden seizing the opportunity to drive the message that he that many Democrats now view that Republicans standing in the way of true border security issues.

And Gabe, I also want to ask you about this issue. The Biden administration has been fighting with Texas over who has jurisdiction over the border. Today, a federal judge blocked a Texas law that would have granted local authorities powers to arrest and deport migrants illegally crossing the borders. What more do we know about that fight and what's happening now?

Yeah, first I'll start. A White House official just a short time ago released a statement applying the judge's decision. As you mentioned, a federal judge temporarily blocking a controversial law, SB4, which would have allowed state authorities to arrest migrants who entered the US Illegally while it was said to go into effect on March and early March. But there was a lawsuit brought by ACLU and several other migrant advocacy groups who said that it wasn't constitutional.

And at this point, the federal judge has said that maybe the case has said that the jurisdiction for enforcing immigration laws falls to the federal government and not the states. Texas Governor Greg Abbott, though he is vowing to appeal here. And this is a case that could go all the way to the U.S. supreme Court.

These idea comes after a long border battle between Texas Governor Greg Abbott and the Biden administration. They've spent quite some time now and Governor Abbott busing migrants to different Democratic led cities across the country and also clashing with the administration for installing razor wire on the border. And also does Louise and the river grand, the Rio Grande, which are very controversial. But again, that law has before here temporarily blocked by the federal judge.

And again, we're waiting for the Biden any moment now here in Brownsville, Texas. And Dasha, you're there with former President Trump. Greg Abbott is with Trump. How's the Trump campaign framing this dueling visit to the board?

Of course, as President Biden is also in Texas. Well, you reached the conversation you were just having with Dave there. Eagle Pass in the Shelby park area. This region is actually the epicenter of that fight between federal and state authorities on the immigration issue.

So it's unlikely to be a coincidence that this is where former President Trump decided to come, decided to meet with Abbott and other authorities here, National Guard troops. The razor wire behind me is among the tactics that Abbott has used to try to thwart immigration here in his cities. It's called razor wire. Those buoys that Dave mentioned there and has deployed thousands of National Guard troops here.

This is actually something that former President Trump is hoping to use in a second administration. He's planning a what he says is the largest deportation operation in US History. And for that, he plans to use what he calls cooperative states, states like Texas, to use their resources, National Guard and other authorities to go into uncooperative states, blue states, and enforce immigration there to immigrants right here illegally and deport them. Now, today is about contrast and it is about messaging for both of these men.

Former President Trump is going to contrast his record on immigration while he was at the White House with that of President Biden. He's claiming that President Biden came here to the border because as a response to former President Trump's visit, the President Biden's team, of course, refutes that. But former President Trump wants this, as does President Biden. They have two very different visions for how to handle this immigration issue.

And they are on display in full force here today. They are certainly on display, Dasha, in full force. And I want to ask you, what's the situation on the ground Eagle Pass today? Of course, we've heard Trump making all sorts of claims about what's happening there.

What are you seeing? Well, there are a lot of supporters of the former president that are out today touting his record for him. Really, they do feel frustrated by how President Biden has handled the border situation. I mean, we see that in polling, which is one of the reasons making this visit.

Right. He sees that this immigration issue is politically positive for him. And he did take that bipartisan border deal. This is something he wants his hands around.

He wants to be able to handle and to and to tackle. And he's laying out these very ambitious, unprecedented plans for his second administration and hoping to capitalize on the frustration. And the electorate really starting to move to the right on this issue. Not just Republicans, but Democrats also moving center and center.

Right. Because this crisis is now at the forefront of blue states as well. You can cities like New York and Chicago that are now handling this. He's really hoping to capitalize on that.

Well, thank you so much, Dasha, for that. Of course, important reporting in Texas and Gabe as well. Thank you. Now, we're going to be keeping our eyes and ears on both shots of President Biden.

And of course, former President Trump will bring you any news that happens as they're visiting. Now, Trump's campaign on the border comes one day after the Supreme Court agreed to give his presidential immunity claims in the special counsel's federal election interference case case, which is still awaiting trial, has been on pause and it will remain paused for now until the Supreme Court issues its ruling. That could potentially add months. That's right, months of delays to the proceedings of the win for Trump as he tries to delay and delay as many criminal trials as possible until after November election.

And so far, only one of his four criminal cases in the New York hush money case has the trial dates set. It's supposed to start on March 25. And his election interference trial, which of course is the one that's in Georgia, that's a different one, has delayed because of allegations of misconduct against prosecutors. His classified documents case has also been bogged out in procedural disagreements.

And now his federal election interference case, the one of course focused on him, efforts to try to overturn the election. Prosecutors say that trial is also in limbo, too. So NBC's Derek Haig is covering the Trump campaign. Also with us, NBC News senior legal correspondent LAURA jr.

Thank you both for being here. So, Jared, of course, former President Trump has wanted to delay and delay and delay. So how happy is the Trump campaign and the former president about what's happening here, please? I talked to one of his outside legal advisors.

They said they thought this case would never go to trial. It's not hard to see how that happens now with this delay. If you imagine the Supreme Court, here's oral arguments in late April, perhaps they make a decision in June. Let's say for the sake of argument that they allow the case to go forward.

You probably still have a couple months before it could get scheduled to begin. And then, oops, all of a sudden you're up against the 60 day kind of soft prohibition that DOJ has against taking actions that might affect an election. Now you're in an election, Donald Trump wins. You're not going to put the, you're not going to put the president elect on trial.

Are you going to be focusing on the transition? There is a pretty clear path to making this all go away for Donald Trump, especially if he wins the election. So the sort of combined political and legal imperative line up very nicely here with the Supreme Court. That legal arguments notwithstanding, Trump personally and his campaign generally, I think believes is sort of friendly to him, the three people that he helped seat on it.

Now, if you zoom out here and it's really passing the timing of all this, you have January 6th writers, some call instructions that have already been charged have already served their times. Meanwhile, former President Trump was, some say was really at the heart of this his. It's been dragging on for years now. What do you make of that?

Well, look, I mean, I was somebody who's at the Capitol on January 6th. I've covered to some degree some of the trials that have followed since the idea that there have been hundreds of people who either pled guilty to crimes or been convicted of crimes related to January 6th, but that Donald Trump will basically have one House impeachment and acquittal in the Senate as basically the only even real attempt to hold him accountable. Perhaps by the time the election rolls around, I think is so striking on Capitol Hill and across town at the doj, it feels like all of official Washington kind of looked for somebody else to try to find the best way to hold Donald Trump accountable for at least a year after January 6, before any of these efforts began in any serious matter. And now they might run out of time to do even a serious effort in the court system at before the next election.

And you, of course, have been holding down the fort of all these different legal problems as well as like Georgia's won legal election interference. There's also the federal election interference. Break down the other legal news here. Well, among the other cases that we're looking at, there's a hearing tomorrow in the classified documents case down in Florida.

Trump may or may not attend, that we may get a little bit closer to figuring out when that case will start, if ever. And oh, by the way, there's still this effort to keep Donald Trump off ballots in several states. We had a surprise decision by a judge yesterday in Illinois, where the state Board of Elections already said, yes, he can say, oh, now we have a judge that says no. In fact, he cannot be on that ballot, citing the 14th Amendment, like what we saw in Colorado and in Maine.

That'll probably, we hope, get caught up in whatever decision the Supreme Court makes on the Colorado case, because if not, you're still looking at a patchwork question of whether Donald Trump could even appear on ballots. I can't keep this straight. I don't know how his team keeps it straight. There are so many legal challenges here.

But for Trump, he's all blocked them into one category rhetorically that he uses on the campaign trail, the idea that it's election interference, that this is an effort by powerful forces to do what voters have not, which is to stop him from being the nominee or the next president. Yeah, you can keep it straight. I know former President Trump's hoping voters can't keep this straight. I think that's a big part of it.

That eventually voters just, it all turns into a blur of sort of legal problem. We talk about it. Legal problems. Legal problems spans a huge spectrum of issues here for the former president.

We can't even talk about it in a way that makes it make sense to voters. Yeah. And Laura, of course, Jack Smith asked the court to resolve this quickly. They've agreed to hear the gate, but the arguments are going to start until April.

That seems like so far away. Does the timing of this really meet the standard of quickly? Of course. I know courts sometimes are slower, of course, than what people might think of as being quickly.

How unusual is this? Yet their definition of what's fast is not certainly our definition of what's fast. It's not Jack Smith's definition of what's fast. Remember, guys, the social, the social prosecutor here actually asked the Supreme Court to take this up way back in December.

He said, please, recognizing this is gonna be such a big issue. This is gonna be so fundamental to my case. Please take it out. Let's jump over the DC Circuit and just resolve it once and for all.

Back in December, Supreme Court said, no, I want you to go through the regular appeals court process. And that's sort of why we landed ourselves here with this sort of winding legal road that we find ourselves in. And it's also why it's so curious that they sat on this request. Remember, Trump asked the Supreme Court to take this up and just put everything on pause so we wouldn't have go to trial so we could delay it even more.

They sat on that request for two weeks, and then they set the argument date for mostly merely two months out of where we are right now. So it's just so curious as sort of how they've structured this. But now that they've agreed to take it out, they're gonna be resolving it across all cases. So the former president has raised this issue of immunity not just in the Washington in D.C.

case. He's raised it in Georgia, he's raised it in Florida. So it's one of those issues that I think that they realize was so sort of fundamental. I'm going to keep coming up, that they might as well just take it on for themselves right now.

Yeah. Well, I also want to ask you, as we talk about sort of the court not being on the same standard, of course, everyone else might think, what's the earliest thing we can get a decision from the Supreme Court? How much pressure does that put on the judge to push the trial date back? So in Bush v.

Gore, when the court decided the election for former President Bush. They came back the day after orgament. They know exactly how to come back fast when they want to. The question is whether they want to in this case and what do they think that they should, you know, the fact that they scheduled it out and for for late April.

So again, sort of he's giving some signals as to whether they think it's imperative for this to get resolved before the next election. And whether they should even be taking that into consideration at all, I think is something that's being hotly debated right now. Now whether or not they actually dropped that decision to the after all arg I don't think I'm prepared to guess that I've been wrong on predictions so far on this case. But I think it's certainly the case that they will come back before the term is over in June.

Some people are sort of positive. Maybe they just sit on I don't think that that's what's happening now. That's they decided to take it up. I think at the earliest we would see it in May and the latest we would see is the last week of June.

You also mentioned the idea that he's raised his claim in a number places, including in Georgia. Could him winning in the supreme court impact Georgia 100% if he wins the Supreme Court? It's a rap. The whole argument again is that the steps that he took, the efforts that he took to try to obstruct the lawful vote count, to try to put forth fake slates of electors, to try to put pressure on local officials to not do their job, it's really the same argument that's being made in both cases.

There's different charges of course with state versus federal, but it's the same type of claim. And fundamentally it's all about stuff that he did while he was the president of the United States and that's what he claims, immunity. And so the Supreme Court says there are a certain number of, you know, those steps that different prosecution and the Georgia case is even more jeopardy than our nation. Well important reporting and great reporting from Garrett and Laura.

I love you too together. So thank you so much. And next Congress kicks the can down the road again. It looks like a shutdown will be avoided at least for a few days.

We'll talk to House Republican Kong Cole about the short term chaos and the long term solutions and more. And later, the newest installment of our decision 2024 series of the Deciders will bring you insights from Borders who make up a crucial part of the electorate Space Scott, North Carolina, you're watching MEET THE PRESS now. Welcome back. Turning now to a busy day on Capitol Hill.

On the Senate side, Republicans are already scrambling to be to see who's gonna be next in line after Mitch McConnell. Senator Mitch McConnell said he plans to step down as Senate Republican leader later this year. Texas Senator John Corn announced his candidacy this morning and he could face competition from several of his colleagues. Meanwhile, the House passed a short term government funding bill that will extend deadlines to March 8 and March 22.

More Democrats though than Republicans voted for its passage. The Senate is expected to take up the measure soon. And the Senate recently passed a separate package to send aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan. But House Speaker Johnson says the House is still considering its options and his top priority is not foreign aid.

The House is actively considering options on path forward. There are first responsibility to fund the government and our primary overriding responsibility has been for the last three years is to secure the border. Joining me now is Oklahoma Republican Congressman Tom Cole. Thank you so much for being here.

He is the board of the vice president and chair of the House Appropriations Committee and chair of the House Rules Committee. Now Congressman, more Democrats than Republicans voted on passing this short term crg, really have a functioning majority in the House right now given that Democrats had to help fund the government. No. Well, look, I do think we have a functioning majority in the House, but a substantial majority of Republicans actually did vote for the continuing resolution.

But probes bills always are bipartisan. They're very seldom or passed along partisan lines and this CR certainly is an example of that. But the continuing resolution was passed under suspension and the last sign into law that didn't pass by suspension or by unanimous vote was the bill to over a debt default last May. That's nine months ago.

Really all major legislation is passing by rules committees and are not in regular oil order. So I have to ask you, is the US House broken? No, not at all. Frankly, we're passing bipartisan bills because I thought what people want us to do.

Look, you have a Republican House, a Democratic Senate, Democratic president. So the idea that any side, any bills are going to get through along strictly partisan lines is probably, you know, not a very good assumption. At some point they'll mutate into bipartisan bills. Earlier this year, you know, we passed a, you know, bipartisan, actually bipartisan NDA, National Defense Authorization act, you know, partisan bills and on the appropriation actually got many more appropriations bills across the line than the Democratic Senate did.

So thanks for bringing the order. Look, of course it is regular order. You know, you don't always have to have a rule on these bills. We're going to have a bipartisan majority, no question about that.

But there was a substantial majority of both parties that voted for the continuing resolution. Well, I want to now turn to the border, Congressman. President Biden, of course, is there and he criticized congressional Republicans for blocking, he said, bipartisan border legislation. He says Congress needs to act as can't just be executive action.

What's your response to that? Well, first of all, he needs to reverse all the bad decisions he's made for the last three years. A second, if you'd like to have legislation in the House in May of last year, more security bill in the Senate, there's not even been a hearing on. So look, this is a problem the president created by really bad judgment.

Ending the remain in Mexico law, ending catch and release, stopping the construction of a border wall. I think the American people know pretty clearly who's responsible for the disaster of the border. The president ought to act in good faith and reverse those bad decisions right now. That'd be the real contribution.

Second, the Senate wants to get serious. They should actually bring up a bill that the House sent. They haven't been able to produce anything themselves. So to say, you know, it collapsed because it couldn't get out of the Senate.

That's the Senate's problem, not the House's problem. But as I said, you mentioned remain in Mexico. Mexico says it's not going to cooperate with that policy and that there are going to be people with credible. When did we let the Mexican decide who can and cannot come across our borders any more than we decide who can and can come across theirs.

I don't care if they cooperate or not. The president has the power to shut the border now and created these problems himself. He can just start by reversing the executive actions that he followed from day one. But again, the president say the Congress needs to act.

I wonder, could you say what's the best policy? What's the best way forward here? Well, the best way forward would be to pass HR 2, which the Democratic Senate has failed to even bring up and have a committee hearing on. They don't have to pass our bill.

They need to bring it up, make whatever changes they want. We can go through the process. Second, the president undid a system that was working. He did it deliberately, systematically.

Now, if he had the power to undo those executive orders from the Trump administration, he has the power to reinstate them. That would actually be a sign of good faith. You know, right now we look on this more as an administration as flailing and trying to find political cover, not as an administration has ever cared since its inception about security of the border. These are the president's actions that caused it.

He ought to start reversing them. He ought to bring up the Republican or ask the Democratic Senate to bring up the Republican border security bill and I think we'd be well on our way to solutions. Speaker Johnson said he's not wedded to HR2. Are there other bills you think or know of that he's considering?

No, I do not. I think there are sections of the bill that we could probably pass. You might not have to have it all. I think if you just pass the remain of Mexico portion, we've been advised by a border patrol that would probably solve 50, 60, 70% of the problem.

So there are measures, again, these are things that the president undid himself that were working. I don't think he called down the president of Mexico and said, what do you think about undoing remain in Mexico? He just did it. So now he needs to undo it.

And the Democratic Senate needs to take that. They can't pass anything on their own. Needs to take up a bill that we have, change it whatever way they want and send it over and we'll work on things together. But again, when we pass a bill four months after the majority that passed in May of last year, they don't do anything on it.

When we have a president that consistently issues executive orders that undermine the system that's working and now tries to blame us on us, I mean, that dog won't hunt. So I think it's a political desperation by the administration and I think the American people will see it for what it is and vote accordingly in fall. Congressman, go on another topic. Hunter Biden, he testified behind closed doors yesterday.

We didn't hear any news about new evidence that President Biden uses elected office to enrich his son. Should Hunter Biden still testify publicly? I think that commitment's been made. 200 Biden.

I think he ought to have that opportunity. He asked for that and I think again, if that's what he wants to do personally, I'm not on the committee jurisdiction, so I didn't have an opportunity to hear what he had to say during his deposition. But again, I don't see any problem with having a public hearing, particularly since he's requesting one. And with that, I mean, how?

Well, this impeachment inquiry, and I want to ask you, is it going to be a House floor Is it going to be a report? What comes next and how is it again, I really don't know. You need to talk to committee jurisdiction, which is both oversight judiciary in this matter and not on those committees. So again, we'll see what evidence they have and they'll make the decision.

And we've certainly shown we're not afraid to vote on these things we did on mayorkas and we'll see what happens here. But you know, right now I'm just, I wish I could give you a clear path forward, but again, I'm not in a position to do that. I want to also say some of your fellow committee chairs, Kathy McMorris Rogers and Mike Gallagher, they're retiring this cycle. Why do you think that is?

Well, you'd have to ask them their individual reasons. I mean, Kathy obviously has been here 20 years long career, hate to lose her. I think she's very much one of the best chairman we have. And Mike Gallagher is a guy just enormous promise, has done a great job on the select committee on China.

So but members come and go all the time. And frankly, if you have a lot of members leading on the Democratic side to run for higher office, I mean, what does that say? So again, the numbers aren't particularly unusual, but you always lose good people. But you generally get good people when the election happens with well, well, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you. Next, the US Is seeking answers on a deadly incident around Gaza aid trucks as ceasefire talks hang in the balance. We're live the televisions with new reporting. You're watching the press now.

Welcome back to Hamas run. Health ministry in Gaza is accusing Israeli forces of opening fire on civilians, killing and injuring hundreds of people waiting for aid in northern Gaza. NBC News has not been able to independently verify the reported death toll and the IDF says they were not involved in the incident with the aid convoy. In response, Israel released this video which it says shows a mass of people surrounding the aid trucks.

The IDF says it was a stampede around those trucks that killed injured people in the crowd. NBC News has not been able to confirm when this video was taken, but an IDF spokesperson did acknowledge that what they are calling a separate incident Israeli true spire on a crowd of people that it determined posed a threat. The White House called today's events a serious incident and said they are looking into the report. But this latest incident is further complicating the ongoing negotiations for potential ceasefire.

Earlier today, President Biden walked back his prediction that a ceasefire agreement could be reached by Monday. Joining me now is NBC News international correspondent Ross Sanchez. He's in Tel Aviv. So how are leaders in the region reacting?

And what did the IDF tell you about what happened? Well, Yamich, we have Israelis and Palestinians giving two very different accounts of what happened here. We know for sure. Shortly before 4am hundreds of Palestinians gathered on Al Rashid Street.

It is a coastal road in Gaza City. And they were waiting for aid trucks to come through, hoping to get food, hoping to get flour. Now, an eyewitness tells NBC News that Israeli forces opened fire on that crowd as it got near one of their checkpoints and that they fired again shortly afterwards as that truck came through. Now, the Israeli military is saying that most of the people who died died in a stampede around those trucks.

And some of the trucks may have even run over some of those people. They were also saying they only opened fire on a specific group that was moving threateningly towards their checkpoint. I asked an Israeli military spokesman earlier whether they had any evidence to support that claim that the crowd was threatening their forces versus take a listen what he had say if we are in a war zone, if you approach armed soldiers in a war zone and there is a threat and a fire warning, shots in the air, the best thing to do is to turn around or walk away. If you continue to proceed forward, the perceived threat remains.

And so, yes, of course, the situation is a very complex situation on the ground. Now, I pressed him on whether there was drone footage, whether there was head camera footage to justify Israeli forces opening fire. They said they have nothing to provide at this point. Ralph, thank you so much for your reporting.

Next, the deciders we'll hear what a key bloke, a pretty block of voters in a battleground state really thinks about the party's presidential front owners. You're watching me the Press now. Welcome back. As we continue to track both President Biden, former President Donald Trump's visit today to the border in Texas, we've got new insights from a key voting block for President Biden in a key battleground state.

In our second installment of the Deciders focus group, produced in collaboration with Ignatius Engages, sorry, Secure, Syracuse University and sego, we hear from African American voters in North Carolina. These these voters are not happy with the way the presidential race is going and the prospect of a Biden Trump rematch. Here's what we here's what they think of the two candidates. Let's start with President Biden, the real politician, old, slow failure, old, old fragile, old incompetent, smacking.

Next person, former President Trump. First word or phrase that comes to mind when you hear his name. Divisive, racist, racist, racist, crazy, incompetent, rich, grifter, disgusted, powerful, crazy. Still, while not liking either candidate, most of them said they will not vote for foreign president Donald Trump.

For a moment, let's imagine the election is tomorrow. By a show of fingers. How many of you would take Trump? If it's a head to head between those two show fingers, who would take Trump?

Zero. Okay, so for the seven of you who would not take Trump, are there any plausible, I stress the word plausible scenarios under which you would take Trump by a show of fingers, how many of you would take Trump in a two person race? Any of you? TCU would.

Okay, one. But there was a potential warning sign for President Biden. 12 of the 14 people who participated in this focus group said they voted for him in 2020. And now just nine of those people say they would vote for him again.

I'm joined now our panel, Rhonda Coleman, Capitol Hill reporter for the Washington Post, Margaret Halif, director of for Syracuse University's Institute for Democracy, Journalism and Citizenship and ASCO senior contributor Joe Crowley, former Democratic congressman from New York and Republican strategist Brad Todd. So, Margaret, we were up late watching this focus group together. It was ripping. How much do you think this group, people who don't like Biden, they don't like Trump.

How much of it do you think is a microcosm of American general? Well, it's important that these are African American voters because while their concerns are just like any American sort, comes to the economy, you know, and border issues and some of these other issues, the racial element is a big element, but it cuts both ways. They're really concerned about what second Trump turn would mean, but they don't totally buy that Biden is working for them. He has problems with communication as far as they're concerned.

He has problems with their confidence in his ability to get things over the finish line. He has credibility issues. Do they really believe he's a champion for civil rights? Many of them said not really.

And so they felt like they cannot vote for him the first time. They're not at this moment feeling the same compulsion to do it again, even though many of them are really worried about what second Trump term would mean. So this is not about voters going on mass over Donald Trump. It's about whether he can turn them out.

And a lot of these voters are talking about things that happened not just this year, but in the past. So I wonder how baked in do you think their views are of these two Candidates very well baked in with both of them. There is one real difference, though. They don't like the way Trump uses powers, but they see him as a tremendously powerful marketer and communicator and someone who breaks costs of red tape and just does whatever he wants to do.

Many of them wish that Biden would just do those things for the policies that he has promised to them. Student loan forgiveness is something that we kept hearing over and over again. Housing costs, just the cost of housing. These are issues that are really illuminating these voters.

And they want Biden to take a page from the Trump playbook, just get stuff done. The one memory lapse, sort of that I really saw was southern border kept being an issue that we kept hearing about last night. And these are voters that are not thinking right now about Trump separating parents and families or some of the sort of most controversial, polarizing aspects of his approach to immigration as president. What they're thinking about is that he got stuff done at the border and they want to know why Joe Biden doesn't seem to have this in command and be true.

And a number of them said that immigration was their top issue. There was also this striking sense of feeling insulted and feeling really like Donald Trump's talks about the mug shots and about sneakers, about his criminal background as being a connection to the, to the black community. They were just really very angry at that. We asked them about that.

And I wonder what you make of those efforts by former President Trump to appeal to black voters while also saying these things are really making them angry and insulting them in many ways. I don't think those efforts are working. I think you see that these voters are very clear eyed in knowing what they feel about Trump. They, I believe some of the words they used to describe him were racist.

That was the top of the list. So it doesn't seem like any new efforts to reach black voters will work. And I think you see that when you talk to voters on campaign trail all the time, they understand when candidate is being genuine and when they are not being genuine. And you can see with this group of voters that they do clearly see what Trump is doing when he was trying to say that, oh, mug shots will reach out to black community.

Or, you know, you heard people from his side say, well, he has a sneaker campaign, a sneaker line. Surely that will be something that black voters like. But voters are definitely understanding those who take their issues into account. And you're really seeing that.

And these views do appear very baked in and hardened. And that's going to be something that Biden campaign is really going to have to address that. It seems as if these voters feel they are so dissatisfied they may not vote and they may actually turn the tide in the end if they do turn out. Now, Brad, a lot of these voters, they said at some point they probably wouldn't push, they would probably vote for Joe Biden.

And this, of course is very specific size of the electoral. Black people living in North Carolina who don't like candidates should this they'll set off more belts from President Trump. Well, I think it's. You said 12 to 14 people voted for Joe Biden in the previous election.

If you're Joe Biden, a very closely divided electorate, he needs 12 or 13 of that group, period. And so if there's a chance that he's at nearly nine or ten, it's an alarm. Right? Alarm for him.

I think this is the story about Joe Biden. The other thing is if these voters that were going to vote for Joe Biden should be voting for Joe Biden, the fact that in a race where these two guys are known commodities, these are based Democrat voters who are still up for grabs, that's a problem I want to point out. If they're bringing up immigration, if they bring up Joe Biden's age, those are the same issues swing voters have. That tells us a lot about the fact that these issues swing voters have travel much further than the middle.

That's a pretty big opportunity for Donald Trump. Joe, I also want to play some sound for you because we put up for these voters headlines and language messaging that came out of the White House, the Biden White House on their achievements are black voters. Take a listen to their reaction to that. I think that's all political mumble jumbo.

I mean, everybody should have the right to do whatever they want to do in America. So that first beginning sentence senses, I mean, I think, you know, it's grasping for straw felt like a lot of fluff, exaggeration. You know, we may have done this little bit here, but let's say we did. Let's make it look grand.

It just felt like a lot of fluff. A lot. It was a lot of words and I haven't seen that much action. I look at it and say I'm sure the numbers are statistically accurate, but they're not.

They haven't been statistically significant. So these voters are saying essentially, yeah, this might be accurate. You might have achieved something for some black voters. But overall, the life experience of most black people have not been Approved.

So should president not be focusing on his own record and not on sort of beating up and criticizing Donald Trump? I think it's a combination of both. I do think this is a very important report. I think the timing of it is critical as well.

And it gives, I think the Biden administration an opportunity to adjust and make some changes as well. And I said, because this is a critically important, important vote for the president. It's the most loyal, most loyal Democratic Party votes, always has been. Was in my district and I know throughout every congressional district the same thing.

So it's not just about the presidency. It's about the downtick as well and energizing folks to come out and vote in terms of what they're saying. I do believe that within the world of sound bites, and it's only second, you have to get a message across. I do think the president needs to talk about his successes more.

I think the White House needs let the president be the president. Let him be Joe Biden. Let it go out. I think that he was on the Seth Meyer Show.

I think that was a good thing to do. I think he needs to do more than try to make those connections go beyond Seth Meyers. According to Seth. He has go beyond Seth.

He has to get to the people where they're at. And I think that's the struggle that's a challenge for him right now. We, of course, have this Blitzenian Texas that's going on. Who has more to gain by what's going on right now in Texas with Biden and Trump thinking about that all day while they're on this dual visit there?

I think when you think of the real credence of the issue of immigration and how that's at the top of issues that a lot of Americans say are important to them. I think, you know, Biden does have an edge here where he's able to go there and campaign and say, you know, I was ready to sign this piece of legislation that both Senate Democrats and Republicans put together with House Republicans against it and Trump directed them to do it. So if you keep hearing that messaging later today and through the weekend, you know, that might give him an edge in selling that he is on top of the Israel he's trying to be. But of course, you know, there are circumstances coming from Texas and the border.

You do have congressional Republicans and Trump saying that Democrats fail people. So I think we're still waiting for the readout from these two visits, but it's going to be interesting. Ry, what do you make of, of sort of Trump being there at the same time as Biden. I think Joe Biden's late his three years too late to go to the border.

The fact that we have the level of crisis we have right now, we might not have had he gone a lot more in 2021. And his numbers will stack up well the Trump administration as far as how many people we legally cross, that's what will stack up. Wealthy Obama administration. I think you're hear more and more Republicans comparing Joe Biden's performance on immigration to Barack Obama.

This is very stark and very different. This, this is out of control independence are worried about it. And if I was Joe Biden I would begin there a lot more often. Joe, we have these voters that are bringing up the border Democratic orders.

What do you think he has to do President Biden to really sort of get this issue under control in their mind? I think learning from other experiences including the race along island with Tom Swozzi won reelection to the House represents in special election where he did talk about this issue. He talked about both securing the border, having integrity at the border at the same time talked simultaneously about a pathway to say citizenship. So I think there are ways in which people can talk about this compassion at the same time.

Look, I think Democrats have learned what they don't say about the governor of Texas. Democrats in New York have learned about the issue they've been facing and many more like to the issue but about the issue. Now the president was willing to deal with the issue and President Trump ended that discussion. Quite frankly, the House and the Senate agreed on language.

There's Trump and Killness. Yeah. But I will say there's a lot to talk about. Thank you so much.

Of course. Ronna, Joe, Brad, Margaret, thank you. And up next, we're talking about another part of the world where a political crisis is exacerbating a humanitarian one. What's being done to try to stem the deepening hunger crisis in Haiti, one of the poorest places in the world.

I'll talk to representative from the U.S. world Food Program next. You're watching me the press now. Welcome back.

U.S. ambassador to the unlit Thomas Greenfields in the South American country of Diana. Earlier this week she met with Caribbean leaders for talks about the dire situation unfolding in Haiti while in the region. The UN Ambassador reaffirmed America's unwavering support for the Haitian people.

She also stressed the need for a multinational security force to be deployed to Haiti to help restore peace and security. This comes amid rising food insecurity in the country largely fueled by a surge in gang violence and increased political turmoil. Recently I spoke with Joe Martin Bauer, the director at the food Program, the World Food Program in Haiti. I began by talking with him about the current situation in Haiti and what this moment in Haiti's history makes it different.

The problem you're seeing right now in Haiti is a culmination of decades of neglect, of underinvestment in agriculture, underinvestment in the population. And we're seeing, for the first time in Haiti, mass hunger lasting years. This has a specialist in food security. I can tell you that we had no acute food security in Haiti until 2016.

Hurricane Matthew hit. We had a million people facing acute food insecurity that's increased to more than 4 million people over the past few years. And I'm personally quite worried about what this means for the health, for nutrition, for the future of the Haitian people. And there's been, as you point out, there's been natural disasters, of course, the earthquake that killed so many people.

But there's also this issue of not only food insecurity, but actual physical security issues. Tell us about that. What makes this moment different there? So what we're seeing is a combination of conflict and food insecurity.

They're tightly correlated in Haiti. And what we have right now is a situation where, According to the U.N. armed gangs control 80% of the capital. They've also been moving out to rural areas like the Artebonne Valley, which is the breadbasket of Haiti.

I traveled to the Artiguanit recently and saw communities where they have piles of food, mountains of food, but that they can't send to the market because it's just too dangerous, because the gangs control the roads and people get racketeered, they get kidnapped, they get help for ransom. I've met women who get raped by trying to sell the produce that they have in the market. Therefore, the very people who are trying to be feeding the Haitian population or hiding at home because of these gangs. And if you go just a short drive in these communities, you'll find hospital wards with children suffering from acute malnutrition because they just don't have enough to eat.

So the conflict in Haiti, the expansion of gangs into these areas, has made the food problem even worse. There's been these protests against the current Haitian administration. How much is the Haitian government and local officials able to help in all the crises that the Haitian facing right now over working with local authorities on important programs to support the population, including the school feeding program Right now, the World Food program is providing a hot meal daily to almost a half million Haitian children. And what we're trying to do with the authorities is make sure we have as much local content, locally grown food in these meals that the children get every day.

We're proud to have reached 50% local content in the school meals program, up from 20% just two years ago. And with the government, we're trying to get to 100% homegrown school feeding in Haiti by 2030. This is a difference because it means that local farms get a chance to sell their produce. They're not competing with low cost imports.

We're able to keep people working in Haiti. What we need to know is that again, we've had years of mass hunger in Haiti and mass hunger, protracted mass hunger, will only lead to unrest. It will lead to conflict and it will lead to mass migration. Haiti right now is a place that people are trying to flee.

Over a hundred thousand people in Haiti have already qualified for humanitarian visas in the US and have traveled to the US on humanitarian visas. Almost 600,000 more have already applied for a humanitarian visa. That's 5% of the Haitian population. It's the equivalent to the population of the state of Wyoming.

There's a big move, an attempt to move out of Haiti because conditions are so dire. But by working with programs that are longer term, like a homegrown school feeding program where we work with farmers and give them an opportunity to earn income, we're giving people a reason to stay and a reason to hope and to talk about having a reason to hope. There was hope that this Kenyan force that they might come in and help stabilize some things in Haiti that has now it seems possibly been blocked with international force. What's the plan if Kenya can't help?

What the plan be here? Well, we need to make sure that security comes back to Haiti, matter what. But I have to tell you, the conversation has really been a lot about security and the security force. I think we haven't spoken enough about the importance of humanitarian assistance.

At the same time, the problem in Haiti is multi layered. There's a security layer, there's an economic layer, there's a political layer, there's a humanitarian layer. We need to address all these at the same time. If not, we won't be able to stabilize this country.

I'm worried that the humanitarian programs in Haiti are underfunded, that humanitarian needs are going unaddressed. We can't let this problem fester. We can't just focus on security. We need to focus on humanitarian because again.

The longer we wait, the longer these needs are unaddressdressed. It will only translate into more Haitians leaving the country legally or illegally and ending up on our southern border. An important conversation about Haiti that is just facing so many crises. Thank you so much.

Intermission. Thank you for being with us this hour. NBC News coverage with Hallie Jackson starts right now. He was a young Marine.

She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn.

I'm Josh Matiewitz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from day one. Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.