Meet the Press NOW — January 10

If it's Wednesday, all eyes on Iowa with Republican rivals, Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley set to face off on the debate stage tonight as front runner Donald Trump hits the campaign trail and the courtroom in the final five days to the first of the nation's presidential contest. Plus, Hunter Biden makes a surprise appearance at his own contempt hearing on Capitol Hill, riling up House Republicans as they pursue or threaten impeachment proceedings against the president, his secretary of Homeland Security, the defense secretary and the attorney general. As President Biden prepares to hit the campaign trail again, as one of his top allies in Congress warns that his election year message is not breaking through by interview with Biden campaign co-chair and member of House Democratic leadership, Congressman Jim Clyburn is ahead. Welcome to Meet the Press now.

I'm Peter Alexander here in Washington. We are just five days away from the Iowa Republican caucus and an intense fight for campaign momentum as the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, and former United Nations ambassador Nikki Haley fight it out to become the primary's primary Trump challenger. That fight between DeSantis and Haley is taking center stage tonight. Literally, the campaign rivals are going to take the debate stage for the fifth time in their first head-to-head match up with front runner Donald Trump not attending.

Time is not on either campaign side. DeSantis has bet big on Iowa and a poor show and could effectively end his campaign. Haley is trying to overcome some recent snumbles on the trail. Both candidates and their allies are sharpening their attacks on each other in the closing stretch.

She's phony. She doesn't have a core set of convictions. She's coming in here. She's trying to be relatable, but just doesn't get Iowa.

And I think that's becoming more and more apparent. Here's the thing. Her, quote, rise was media-driven. There's not a lot of grassroots energy.

You can talk to all these activists here. They're not seeing it. It's been media-driven. Every single commercial, God bless him.

That Ron DeSantis put on the air. There's not an ounce of truth. Not an effective. DeSantis desperate.

He's lying because he's losing. But let's go. The problem is if you have to lie to win, you don't deserve to win. And as for President Trump, he has retained even strengthened his front-runner status during this campaign despite those criminal proceedings, authoritarian rhetoric, and threats of political revenge.

Now tomorrow, he's going to, again, voluntarily leave the campaign trail for the courtroom, this time to appear at his civil fraud trial in New York. He wanted to deliver his own closing arguments there, but the judge has denied that request. And at a separate voluntary court appearance, yesterday, you likely saw the former president basically accused President Biden of orchestrating the various criminal cases against him. And warning there would be in his words, bedlam in America if the cases proceed and hurt his election chances.

Numbers came out today that are really very mind-boggling if you happen to be Joe Biden. And I think they feel this is the way they're going to try and win. And that's not the way it goes. That will be bedlam in the country.

It's a very bad thing. It's a very bad precedent. Big picture here, which is five days to Iowa, and with former President Trump having remade the Republican Party in his image, Haley and DeSantis are running behind in Trump, but they aren't exactly running against him. As our friend, Chuck Todd wisely wrote today, there is not much of a debate about the direction of the GOP while I have no doubt that both Haley and DeSantis believe the GOP under Trump is headed in a terrible direction, neither appears to have the guts to say that.

Perhaps the case in point here is Nikki Haley's careful and calculated brush back to the former president from earlier this week. Pro-Trumpers don't think I love Trump enough, anti-Trumpers don't think I hate him enough. And I don't hate him. I told you, I think he was the right president at the right time.

But any policy that comes up, I'm going to tell you exactly where I stand on that policy. He's got to stop with his hatred back and forth. We've got to stop with these divisions. I don't have resentment for President Trump.

I don't think he should be the next president going forward. I'm happy to tell you all the reasons why I think that is. Joining me now from the debate site in Des Moines, Iowa, is NBC's Ali Vitale and Dasha Burns as well. Dasha standing out in the cold.

Dasha, we're going to get to you for that reason first here. The fifth debate for DeSantis and Haley tonight. What is the Florida governor's strategy with this one-on-one format? Well, thank you, Peter, for taking some mercy on me.

And look, I don't think anyone thought that this fight for second place was going to drag on this long, whether he talked to voters or the candidates themselves. Certainly Florida governor Ron DeSantis didn't think that at this point in the race, he would be fighting a challenger for second place. And that's why tonight is going to be a big deal for him. Look, his campaign aides tell me that he's going to be trying to create that contrast with governor Haley.

He is going to be looking for this opportunity to try to hold her accountable for what they see as questions that she's dodged on the campaign trail. And this is a moment for both of them to really take each other head on after ramping up their rhetoric against one another as you played there on the campaign trail and in interviews. And on the airwaves, really, as we've seen any time you turn the TV on here in Iowa, there is an attack at from either the Haley or DeSantis campaign playing. And this is that opportunity without the noise of the other candidates that we've seen them on the stage with.

It's just a two of them. They're neck and neck and the poles here in Iowa. And they get to take each other head to head tonight. Ali, let me ask you about Nikki Haley then.

She seemed to benefit in the past from being the center of those other attacks in previous debates. This could be a bit more of a challenge though for her. No, it's just the two of them. Less places to hide, Peter.

I think that's exactly right. At the same time, I think that this is something that Nikki Haley wants. You can tell a lot from people's closing messages here on the airwaves. Joshua points out the fact that Haley is always talking about the ads that are being run against her, whether it's by DeSantis himself or the former president Donald Trump.

But you can tell that for DeSantis, the goal here in Iowa is to make sure that Haley's momentum is blunted. That's in part the role and goal of the attack ads. But then for Haley, her closing message here in her final ad is a bio ad. It's about her stance on the issues, her pro-life posture, for example.

And you can tell that that's her attempt to maybe not alienate any other voters who might like her rivals, but to try to bring people to her cause in a more positive way. The Haley campaign's hope is that they can use this debate stage as they have almost all of the other ones. As a chance to showcase the key parts of her stump speech, you can imagine, because we've seen these two candidates going at it on debate stages in the past, that because there's no one else on the stage, we're not gonna see Haley sparring with Vivek Remiswamy. And that means we will not have to watch her try to contain her disdain, frankly, for that one of her rivals.

But when it comes to DeSantis, I think that this debate, frankly, would be an interesting one. If it was 2028 in that Republican primary, maybe then we would finally see some movement. But this debate for a second place, while it's true, it's the accurate assessment of where we're at in this primary. Second doesn't get you a win in Iowa.

Right now, the expectation is that that's Trump. Of course, he is once again, not on the debate stage. But for these two folks, they're hoping that they can edge each other out for second place in Iowa. And for Haley, that means a springboard into New Hampshire.

We're pulling does show her within potential striking distance of Trump. And Dasha, I just want to get your take on all this. Obviously, Donald Trump's not going to be there again. So he's not really accountable to anybody in terms of answering.

Tough questions here. But as a function of these two attacking each other, no one really ends up attacking Donald Trump. No, that's exactly right. And it's what we've seen at these debates over and over again.

But the five or second place really does matter for both of these candidates because of the momentum that Iowa can get going into New Hampshire. And for DeSantis, they're looking at South Carolina. They know we've all seen the numbers. New Hampshire is not his state.

But they believe that Nikki Haley is really going to struggle in her home state, that South Carolina could be that wall that she hits, where they could then, after that, heading into Super Tuesday, turn this into a two person race. They also see the numbers. They know Trump's way ahead. But there's also been some reporting I did with I colleague Alan Smith a couple of weeks ago, where there is some thinking in the Republican Party that should Trump's legal challenges or his health turn into something that does potentially stop him from becoming the nominee or from ultimately making it to November, whoever does end up in second place, especially a strong second, could be that contender to get the nomination if something were to go wrong for the Trump team.

So that first second place matters for a number of reasons here, here. All right, guys. Well, both of you, I guess, are booking your tickets for New Hampshire. We'll see which one of you ends up taking that trip.

Allie and Dasha, we appreciate you guys on Alien. Also on the ground in Iowa for us covering all things. Donald Trump. Well, let me ask you about this.

Another debate, another Trump counter programming event. I don't think we're going to anticipate that he's going to break any new ground here. But as a function of holding these events and not really doing a lot of real interviews, he doesn't face any accountability. He doesn't get held accountable for any of the things he has said, most recently referring to January 6th insurrectionist behind bars as hostages.

Right, he's going to be doing his own town hall just down the road from where Chris or I should say Nikki Haley and Ryan DeSantis will be swearing off. But this is going to be him and Brett Bair and Martha McComb from Fox. For Donald Trump, this is the only event of the week until rallies here this weekend. And you just said it.

We'll wait to see how hard hitting the Fox town hall is with him here. But for Donald Trump, this is very much an opportunity for him to say he's here in the States and in the middle of appearing Washington DC at the immunity appeals hearing in Washington DC yesterday. And then in lower Manhattan for the New York Civil Fraud Trial, we're going to argue this tomorrow. Donald Trump has not had to square off with any of his competition.

He said if it was to get really close to somebody, maybe he'd appear on a debate stage at some point. And that's why there's an extra incentive, not just to come in second for Nikki Haley or Ryan DeSantis here in Iowa, but also to try to make it somewhat close to compelled Donald Trump come to Hampshire to get on the stage with him. And Bon for clarity, the former president schedule this week suggests that he's pretty comfortable in Iowa. But as you look ahead to New Hampshire, as you just noted, are some of these recent polls giving the campaign pause one of which shows him within single digits or Nikki Haley within single digits of him there?

Right, it's hard to ignore, especially when you add on Chris Christie's 12% in the polls, in one of those polls to see an end poll, that then he clips his Donald Trump there. I mean, they still feel confident by a large when you go beyond the state of New Hampshire from the Vatican, South Carolina, beyond where Donald Trump's polling numbers are sturdy. But if somebody like Nikki Haley were able to pull off a win in New Hampshire, it would be significant. And so that's where you have seen Donald Trump feel very comfortable about his position here in Iowa instead turn his attention to the court hearings.

Look, compared to eight years ago, Donald Trump had nine campaign events in the final week here in Iowa, participated in the GOP debate, and also had rallies in New Hampshire and South Carolina in the final seven days, in the Iowa caucus, but Donald Trump isn't even appearing in New Hampshire until the day after the caucus. So, I think that this is one of those moments where we're gonna be able to look back Peter. For some reason, Nikki Haley has a true surge and is able to give Donald Trump a run for his money because Donald Trump is very much low-wocked as candidacy in terms of on the ground campaigning over the course of the last year, and especially here in this final month. And you can anticipate some venting from the former president as early as tonight, he wanted to speak at a civil fraud trial tomorrow.

Now it looks likely that is not gonna happen. So he may use this stage as an opportunity to tee off on that as well, on Hilliard on the ground in Iowa for us. Well, I'm thank you, Stay Warren, my friend, appreciate it to break down this moment for the Republican Party. And be seeing Chief Political Analyst, Chuck Todd, is joining me on set-tock ice to see you.

I've been here. Appreciate your being here. So we are now just days away from Iowa. We've been talking about Iowa for like, you know, five years it feels like.

And here finally, it's just five days away. So much of the conversation though, is about second place right now. Why aren't those two fighting for first? It's a great question.

They're not running campaigns to witness. They're not running campaigns to have a debate with Donald Trump either. They're not having, they're not interested in, it's fascinating to me to watch particularly DeSantis and Haley. They're trying to essentially endorse Trumpism without Trump.

They're trying to, they're trying really hard to somehow separate Trump, the individual from his voters. They're not interested in pursuing a flat out debate. Hey, you are a failure in your first term. If you hadn't been a failure, you'd have been reelected.

They're not litigating this. And so when you're campaigning from this position of fear, and that's what they are, you're asking voters, well, let's see, you know, I'll give you what you like about Trump, but without Trump, that voter hears, well, I either want Trump or Trump light. And anytime you're offering light, most people, unless it's Miller light versus Miller genuine draft, you ever prefer the light be your person. You usually want the real thing.

We read a bit of your column at the top of this hour. I want to read a little bit more, because it kind of gets to this point. I think this was smart. You say, I imagine both Haley and DeSantis will have even more to say about Trump and Trumpism after they lose this campaign to him.

That is, if they determine that they both, that they have no futures in a Trump-led GOP, one gets the sense that both of them hold the delusion that somehow they can navigate this moment and get back into the Trump camp enough to be positioned as an heir apparent in 2028. Is that realistic for either of them? I don't think it is, but I can tell you that's what DeSantis wore things. And as the whole idea- Don't go too far, because if it doesn't happen here, you got to hold your fire for the first one.

So it's more of a, okay, you took your shot, you're not going to win, don't burn the bridge. I think we're seeing evidence of this. When a voter says to DeSantis, I don't think you're tough enough on Trump, he says, what do you mean I'm doing this, and this? He made a decision, he's just not going to do that.

So look, I think in the way our short-term attention span works, are any of the 2016 candidates viable in 2024, other than Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, not viable, Ted Cruz, not viable. Ron DeSantis is not going to be viable in 2028, but he thinks he will be. And then there's Nikki Haley. And Christie has been sort of complaining about this idea when people are trying to push him out of the race, which again, if you believe in stopping Donald Trump, Christie should be getting out.

But I understand his frustration with Haley, like I'll endorse you, but don't embarrass me and be a cum is running me. Because then all of a sudden, it's a glorified the same thing Christie ended up doing eight years ago, you know, essentially helping to mainstream Trump, right? I think Christie said I made a mistake. Right, I think if Christie at all wants to be principled about what his campaign has been about, he can't endorse somebody who eventually shows up on the Trump ticket.

Is there a world where Nikki Haley is on the Trump ticket? Anybody who has spent time covering Nikki Haley, anybody who has spent time understanding her ambition, nobody believes that she would say no to Donald Trump. Now I don't believe Donald Trump will ask her to be on this ticket because he is not, you know, he's mentioned a lot of other names by the way, including women that are not her. That's right.

And I don't think he doesn't want somebody that might eclipse him, you know that, as far as star power is concerned. And he certainly wants somebody that is, that wouldn't be there without him. Whatever you think of Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley is at a successful career without Donald Trump. He'd prefer to find somebody like an Elise Stefanik or a Christie gnome who wouldn't be relevant nationally without Donald.

Let me ask you a quick question. You were talking about Christie. He said yesterday of Governor Sunu Nune with the State of New Hampshire, he called him a liar or suggested he was gonna be dropping out this series. Weirdly, it was a weirdly angry retort.

He was clearly angry at that moment, but work he under some circumstances to drop out before the New Hampshire primary. How significant would that be? Give him the fact that Nikki Haley is within his number of points of Donald Trump right now. I have to say, I think that he's actually doing Nikki Haley a bigger favor by doing it now, right?

The question, I think nobody believed he was going to stay in the race. You mean if he is to drop out, not the difference that he is doing, he would actually be doing her a huge favor doing it before I was. Because it allows her, but it really does put the pressure on her and it really does make, she needs a second place. It's sort of like she's got a 1% chance without finishing second and a 2% chance.

But her odds go up if she can finish second in Iowa, knock out the Santas. I don't think the Santas's campaign lasts more than hours if he doesn't finish second in Iowa. And then she might be able to slingshot it. And with Christie getting out before this debate, if that is what's happening, and there's also a chatter, so we're not gonna, you know, if he is doing that, he is doing her a huge favor.

The irony in all of this, the question or not, the irony in all of this is if she gets to South Carolina, that actually could be a brick wall for her, right? She may not have the support. She needs a remote state. Chuck, I appreciate your being here with your expertise.

Coming up, House lawmakers reacted when the president's son crashed his own contempt hearing in the house. That moment, and with the White House is saying about it is next. Plus, President Biden looks to ramp up outreach to key voters in battleground states and the new questions about his political standing. You are watching Meet the Press Now.

Welcome back to Meet the Press Now. I'm Peter Alexander. It has been a busy day on Capitol Hill, as House Republicans push forward with their investigations into President Biden, his family and his cabinet, starting with a surprise appearance by Hunter Biden and his lawyer who crashed a public meeting held by the House Oversight Committee. Biden has refused to comply with the committee subpoena to sit for a closed-door deposition, instead demanding to testify publicly.

Moments ago, the House Judiciary Committee formally recommended contempt charges against Hunter Biden that they go before the full House. His unexpected appearance today led to some chaotic moments in the hearing room. We do want to warn our audience that some of the language you're going to hear here may be viewed as offensive. You are the epitome of White Privilege, coming into the Oversight Committee, spitting in our face, ignoring a congressional subpoena to be deposed.

What are you afraid of? You have no balls to come up here. Mr. Chairman, point of inquiry.

Mr. Chairman. It's the general lady who wants to hear from Hunter Biden. You can hear from him right now, Mr.

Chairman. I think that Hunter Biden should be arrested right here right now and go straight to jail. That, of course, is the Republican Nancy Mais of South Carolina who was speaking there. Meanwhile, in the separate committee, House Republicans held their first impeachment hearing into Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas as they looked to hold him responsible for the crisis at the US Southern border.

So joining me now is NBC Senior National Political Reporters, I Hill Kapoor. So nice to see you here. Let's try to break all this down. First, why did Hunter Biden show up today?

What was the point he was trying to make by this? Hey, Peter, what Hunter Biden was trying to convey by making the surprise appearance is that he's not hiding from Republicans, that he's not afraid to testify as part of their impeachment inquiry into President Biden, looking for links to his son's foreign business transactions, just that Hunter Biden insists on doing this publicly in the light of day for everyone to see. He and his legal team argue that Republicans are operating on bad faith political motives and will rip his comments out of context and distort them. So they say that he's willing to testify.

It just has to be public. Now, the Republicans don't accept his view at all. They say that's not his decision to make. They're the ones who control the House.

They're the ones who control the gavels. They issue this opinion. They set the terms and he didn't comply with it. And so they just voted moments ago at the House Judiciary Committee after a long day of debating this from the theatrics we saw earlier that voted 23 to 14 along party lines to hold Hunter Biden in contempt.

The House Oversight Committee has got to follow, but we expect that to be a similar result, Peter. So let me ask you about what else has been going on at the Hill. House Republicans held their first impeachment hearing in the Secretary of Mayorkas, of course, the Homeland Security Secretary. But do they run the risk style here of being too eager to jump into these impeachments?

Yeah, that's precisely the risk, Peter. If they don't make their case persuasively, impeachment always tends to be somewhat of a political issue where you have to convince the public that you're operating and doing it for the right reasons. In this case, they have some skeptics, including some who have typically sided with Republicans in recent years. Jonathan Turley, the law professor, who's been a star, witnessed for Republicans many hearings, says he's skeptical of the claims that Republicans are making in terms of impeachable offenses here.

He says in an op-ed that he agrees that Mayorkas has been dishonest, duplicitous, and even derelict. But he adds, Turley adds, quote, being bad at your job is not an impeachable offense, even if it's really bad. That's kind of where Republicans are here, trying to, they need to make the case that this is more than just a policy disagreement that they're litigating. And of course, America is not the only person that they're threatening to impeach here.

There's a growing list of them that includes President Biden, that inquiry has begun. Mayorkas is, of course, one of them. There's Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who is now the subject of articles of impeachment filed by Republican Congressman for that undisclosed medical absence. There's also Attorney General, Merrick Garland, who James Comer, the oversight chairman, is threatening to impeach if the Justice Department does not charge Hunter Biden, does not prosecute for that contempt citation.

So this is sort of where they are. I think we have a response from the White House here, responding pretty aggressively. Let's show that on the screen, spokesman in Sam says quote, Republicans are treating impeachments like an Oprah audience giveaway. They're disregarding the Constitution for the sake of cheap baseless political stunts.

It gives you a flavor of how the White House is going to continue to combat all this period. And of course, as you know, Welles, it relates to Mayorkas on the one hand. He's negotiating with Senate Republicans about an effort to try to come to some border deal. On the other side, he got the House Republicans who are going forward with their effort to try to impeach him.

I want to go back to the House floor if we can. Speaker Mike Johnson, he's now getting his first taste of rebellion, by conservatives within his conference. What happened? He's getting a taste of what former Speaker Kevin McCarthy got a taste of several times before he was ultimately overthrown by hardliners in the House.

Just a couple of hours ago, a group of 13 House Republican hardliners tanked a rule that's a procedural vote on an unrelated piece of legislation to protest that spending deal that Speaker Johnson caught with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. It's mostly the Biden McCarthy deal with some changes he secured, some additional spending cuts in the form of offsets, COVID, unspent funds and additional IRS cuts. These Republican hardliners say that's not enough, and they wanted to show him that they're very serious in protesting this. It's the real headache for Mike Johnson.

Just nine days before a shutdown, he still had that way for then majority. He still has to go with the Democratic Senate and the Democratic President. And one lesson that Republicans are learning, at least some of them are learning, is you can't change the math of Congress by replacing a speaker. You still have to ultimately get by part of the legislation if you want to make a law.

So I hope we'll always appreciate your expertise in your reporting. Thanks for speaking with us and coming up next right here on Meet the Press now. Wake up call with Congressman Jim Clyburn when the president's most outspoken, Democratic allies and campaign advisors. He is quote, quote, very concerned about Biden's standing with key voters.

My interview with the Congressman is next. You're watching Meet the Press now. We're back now in his Republicans bar in Storm, Iowa during these final days before the Hawkeye State holds its caucus. His president Biden is continuing his outreach to the frank constituencies that helped elect him four years ago.

He has events planned for later this month in Nevada with its notable Hispanic population. And in Michigan with its large Arab American population, it comes as President Biden has struggled with some Hispanic groups over the issue of border security while his allies have sounded the alarm that his handling of the Israel-Hamas War has jeopardized his support among a key constituency there in Michigan, Americans. Joining me now is South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn, Assistant Democratic Leader and one of the natural co-chairs of the Biden Re-election Campaign. Congressman Clyburn, it's nice to see you.

I appreciate making time to speak with us right now. I do want to ask you in recent months, you told one of our colleagues that you're confident that black voters are going to turn out and force for President Biden. This most recent Sunday, you said that you're quote, very concerned about black voters showing up for the president. What changed, sir?

Well, thank you very much for having me. Nothing changed. My concern is much more with black voters getting the right information, getting all of the information so that they will be informed voters. That's my concern.

I believe very strongly that this president has done what is necessary to earn the support of African-Americans all over this country. But I'm also concerned that when we report these results, they don't always tell a full story. As student-loan debt relief is one of the best examples I can think of, the president attempted to reduce and eliminate student-loan debt in five different categories. He got sued in one category and was stopped from doing so.

He pursued the other four, which resulted in $132 billion in student-loan debt relief for 3.4 million people. That never gets reported. Yeah, and now he pulled the lawsuit. I apologize for interrupting.

You make a good point. It also certainly Republicans oppose the president every which way as a related to student loans. But as you speak about these concerns right now, what specifically can the president do? What does he need to do to ease your concerns?

More of what he's done in the last two big speeches. I think his speech up there after the Valley Forge was a great speech. The speech at the manual, AME Church in Charleston, was even greater. He took the big picture of it by Valley Forge, by George Washington, and localized it to current conditions as demonstrated at the EVAD that happened at AME Church.

And so this is what I think needs to be done. For the president to continue to forcefully speak out on these issues that are threatening the people of this country, with their freedoms and with democracy, they will all hold dear. That to me, the demonstration that the president is on track. And I really appreciate it.

Both those speeches. And all I can say is more, more, more. Congressman Clyburn, do you wish the president had taken this tack sooner? Do you think he waited too long to do this?

No, I don't. We do things when they need to be done. I do believe that if the president had done this before the Christmas holidays, it may have gotten washed away with all the revenue. Now that we are focused on a Congress, the seem not to be able to get out of its way just today, the very first rule that the president put forth in the new year, they failed.

So the president is doing it at the right time. Those were a little frustrating to be in that waiting period. But I think we are exactly where we need to be. Congress, but I want to ask you some officials in Michigan, Democrats there who have complained the president has been spending too much time in Pennsylvania in particular.

We just learned that the president is going to be traveling to Michigan and Nevada, who is officially first by NBC News. So do that this month. Does the president need to step up his outreach and some of those other key battlegrounds where the election might be decided? Well, you know, I don't know how to keep up with the percentages of the time that the president may be spending on one place or another.

But I do believe that there's got to be everywhere. This is not a reasonable election. This is an election for 50 states and territories, plus the territories. And so we've got to be everywhere that we can possibly be given the time constraints on being president of the United States, leader of the free world.

He cannot be as often as we would like. But as much as he can, we should do it. Of course, the president's time is the biggest asset he has during the course of the campaign. There has been recent reporting about former president Obama meeting with President Biden to discuss his campaign operation.

And specifically, the need to better empower aides in his headquarters to make decisions are the president's struggles to this point a campaign issue, sir, or a candidate issue? Well, I think that we, I'm not with the president around the same time the vice president did. And there are others meeting with him as well. All of us are expressing to the president that which we think needs to be done.

And so when I read the reports of what the former president Obama said, it was nothing different from what I had said to him. So those of us who see the same things happening, and I think all of us agree on what needs to be done. There were a couple other questions about recent headlines. We're learning more, of course, about the defense secretary, Lloyd Austin's health challenges.

He is, as you know, being treated for prostate cancer. Most importantly, his doctors say that his prognosis is excellent. But of course, this episode also raises serious questions about his judgment, not telling the White House about his hospitalization for days. Does this issue rise to the level where the secretary needs to step down or that someone else should serve as defense secretary in your view?

Absolutely not. Maybe he should have spoken earlier. He thought he was going in as my understanding is for a simple procedure in and out and that happened. Except that four or five days later, complications set in.

Now that changed the dynamics in a big way. Now who was responsible? At that point, I think the investigation that the White House is conducting will reveal what needs to be done, and I won't get out in front of that. Now let me ask you two final questions.

One, would you have advised Hunter Biden to appear at today's hearing? How big of a distraction liability is he to the president's reelection bid? Well, I think it's a distraction, but I don't think it's a liability. I think that all this is going to do is demonstrate what a good father, Joe Biden is.

We all, maybe not all, but I have children. And I'm concerned about them. And I want to be a good father to them. And I'm not going to let the officer get in the way of being a good father.

And I think that's what Joe Biden is doing here. And I do believe that any public testimony will reveal that. In private, they come out and say what they want to say. They come out and paint what picture they want to paint.

And that's what they have to hide. Do it in public. And that's been a hundred of Biden's concerns from the start. Your last quick question, if I can, for you, I just want to get your view on the status in terms of the risk of a government shutdown.

How concerned should Americans be about a shutdown? Well, I think the shit they're concerned about is, especially after the day's vote. The fact of the matter is, the speaker has reached an agreement with the Democratic leadership that he has about 10 or 12 people disagreeing with him. So if they do not give the votes that are necessary to pass this bill, they will shut the government down.

And the American people will see that the Republican conference is once again doing what is not doing what is necessary to run the country. Congressman Jim Clyburn, it's always a pleasure to have you. Thank you for making time to speak with us. Thank you very much for having me.

After the break, primaries, politics, and partisanship, it has been a busy day on the campaign trail. And on Capitol Hill is the Republican candidates raised to the finish line in Iowa, while Republican lawmakers raised towards multiple impeachment proceedings. The panel is next. You're watching with the press now.

Welcome back as we report at the top of the show today. It is a race for second place in Iowa, as Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis take the debate stage tonight, trying to make last minute games with Iowa caucusgoers ahead of the contest on Monday. But quality over quantity might also come into play next week as bad weather might deter some of those less devoted supporters from getting out to the polls. We're not getting about the bad weather.

They expect the temperatures to be perhaps below zero windshield. Joining me now is our panel, Betsy Wooder-Swann, the national correspondent at Politico, former Democratic Congressman from Michigan, Andy Levin. Congratulations to the Wolverines. He has now distinguished senior fellow at the Center for American Progress Action Fund, and Ramesh Benuru, the editor at the National Review, and the columnist for the Washington Post.

Sorry, Betsy, let's get to you right away. Tonight we got this debate. It's an Iowa, the president, former president, has his own event taking place. So you have sort of competing events this evening.

But let's focus on the marquee match up, which in effect is Nikki Haley versus Ron DeSantis tonight. It seems like this has been a fight for a second from way back. And then neither one of them is willing to go after the front runner here. Describe what you're anticipating.

It's just been a little bit of a muddle between the two of them, and hard to make sense of how either of them sees fighting after each other for second place as something that's going to have any effect whatsoever on the very, very, very high likelihood that Trump becomes the Republican nominee. And this is what happened in 2016, too. It was sort of lots of folks duking it out to be in second. Who's going to be the challenger?

And that duking out process lasted so long that Machandra never had a chance to seriously emerge. Ramesh, who has word stake in this? I guess each of them, right? If there's only going to be two of them at the end of tonight.

Or at the end of Monday, perhaps. Well, I think that DeSantis has the bigger test coming up the quickest, because Iowa is really where he has made his fight. And if some people say he has to get second in order to stay in his first, I think he has to get a pretty close second, too. Because this is a very similar test.

The same thing that you mentioned were her numbers are pretty good. DeSantis may not be able to. That's right. Yeah, that's an interesting point you make.

To you, Congressman, just want your take on this. As you watch this, you thought we were going to see this reckoning in the Republican Party. It was going to be what comes after Donald Trump. Neither one of these do is willing to initiate any reckoning here.

They're all sort of playing in the Trump adjacent space. The Republican Party remains completely in the thrall of MAG extremism. There's no question, Peter. And it's a huge problem for our whole country, just speaking as a patriot.

We need to political parties that are within the realm of democracy, small D. And as you said, they won't go after him. Politics is a rough sport. If somebody's way out in front, you've got to compete with them.

If you want to overtake them, it doesn't seem to be happening. Ramesh, there's a name that the audience may not be familiar with, but he has a big power broker as it relates to Iowa. His name is Bob Vanderglatz. And he defended his endorsement of DeSantis with an op-ed in the Des Moines Register yesterday, saying that Coccasing for DeSantis is a good thing for Trump.

And I'm going to read just a little more of what he said in Get Your Reaction. He wrote, my endorsements, along with my vote for DeSantis, come from a friend doing what's best for the GOP, best for America, and best for Trump. If you believe that the system is being weaponized against Trump and many of us, then a DeSantis presidency is the former president's and our best line of defense. And DeSantis, presidency of Vanderplatz writes, ensures justice for Trump.

Just want to get your take on that. It's very squirrely, right? I mean, it is illustrative of the problems that Trump's challengers have had, because they have to, every criticism has to be some sort of bank shot criticism. It has to be coupled with praise for the president.

Why is Trump light if there's Trump to purchase? That's right. Look, if Republicans believe, most Republicans believe Trump is a successful president. If most of them believe, as unfortunately, most of them do, that he actually won in 2020, and these guys aren't going to challenge any of that, then why shouldn't he be the nominee?

Yeah, Betsy, I want to talk about tomorrow. The president's been back and forth between the campaign trail and between the courtroom in recent days. So tomorrow, he had requested to speak during the closing arguments of what is his civil fraud trial in New York. It becomes tricky to keep track of these things.

I want to make sure we get it right here. It's now been made clear by the judge there that the answer is going to be no. Does that play into the former president's narrative here? I would think that his lawyers and frankly, a lot of his allies would be just as happy to see him not speaking a word in that courtroom.

It's like mind-boggling that it was something that was even discussed. And I imagine the only reason his lawyers were comfortable with him floating the idea was because they knew that the legal aid was going to be a non-starter. It was not going to happen. Either you're a pro-salingent or you're not a pro-salingent.

You don't get to pick and choose your own adventure type situation in these types of moments. And of course, Trump is going to say, I'm being silenced once again by this judge, which is entirely predictable, which is what he's been saying the whole time. So does him saying that one word A, and one more circumstance meaningfully help him to move the needle? I doubt it, but you know, it's his choice.

The Congresswoman, your reaction former president, the president Joe Biden in the course of the last week of Donald Trump first, there was the Valley Forge speech, then he went to the AME church, where of course too many black parishioners were killed in that awful massacre by the white supremacists several years ago. Has the president waited too long to be this aggressive? And is this the most effective tactic going forward? Well, I think the president needs to, and really all Americans need to defend our democracy.

And this is what's at stake. If it's a Donald Trump nomination in the Republican party. Let me ask her. Because he's given it not too dissimilar speech from this before many times.

They go back to it. Is it just that they have to sort of hammer this in, so it sticks for folks? Or is there a risk that the people who believe that the state are already on board with him and others aren't gonna be swayed on that issue? Well, I think the president has to do a lot to win reelection.

It's a tall order. He's got to do well on the economy. He's got to do well on democracy. And frankly, we have to do better on foreign policy.

Speaking of the Michigan, I am very worried about the Gaza situation's effect on not just the Arab-American and Muslim voters in my state, but young voters as well, who are turned off by what they're seeing. If the vote were to join the state of Michigan. You know, the vote is it today. I don't even know what that means.

Well, I've heard from leading Democrats in Michigan who said it was to get the vote today to abide would not win the state of Michigan. That's why I asked that one. How's the situation at home, Peter, because people are so upset about Gaza? It's very rough right now.

The Republican, we should know, he's gonna be going to Michigan and Nevada, the course of the next couple of weeks. And that's a great thing. That's a great thing. He needs to get out.

Well, the argument has been made by a lot of Democrats. He's got to get to some of these other battlegrounds, not named Pennsylvania. Yeah, that's true. And Michigan is just maybe massively important.

The huge question with voters in your own state is enthusiasm. Trump's not gonna be campaigning on a proceeds fire or pro-gossip platform. There's no way he's gonna be anywhere other than far, far to the right of Biden on that issue. The question is enthusiasm.

Do you have these young voters, these Muslim American voters, people who care about what's happening in this conflict, who are opposed to where Biden is? Do those people just not turn out? Do they decide it's not worth it? They're so frustrated with the Biden administration policy that they don't wanna show how much?

Well, it is that risk of erosion, I think, where perhaps it's your Biden's biggest challenge as we look ahead to November. And he's got demographic challenges in Nevada as well, where you've got the potential for slippage among Hispanics and the already weak position among white working class voters of whom there are quite few in Nevada. That's one of the reasons the Senate race was so tight there in 2022. So I think it's smart for the Biden campaign to be looking at Nevada as well.

Hunter Biden, you don't work in the White House, and you're probably not so negative repeat here. Does Hunter Biden show up on Capitol Hill today? If you're sitting in the White House, what are you saying to your television screen? Probably not something I can repeat here.

Does Hunter, is he a big distraction to you think? Is it something that matters to most Americans right now? I mean, when he's in the headlines, I'm sure the White House doesn't want the conversation to be focused on Hunter Biden. You know, if you look back over recent presidencies, a number of presidents have had this difficulty with different kids and relatives.

I agree with what your last interviewer, interviewee said, that Joe Biden in the end of the day, and this is gonna come off as a good dad. Congressman, here, I want you to stay with us all three of you. We have some breaking news I wanna get to at this hour right now, campaign news. Not from Iowa, Chris Christie is suspending his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination.

The former New Jersey governor, and most outspoken Trump critic in this race, will make the announcement we were told in just a few minutes at an event to take place in New Hampshire, sources tell NBC News that Christie is not expected, not expected, to make an endorsement at this time. His decision, though, to suspend his campaign, could be a boost to Nikki Haley, who is looking to consolidate support against former president, Donald Trump, in this month's New Hampshire primary, and beyond, I wanna get right to NBC's Garrett Hake, who has more on this, and the impact it potentially has on this race right now, Garrett, you're there in Iowa right now. Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are gonna be watching this headline pretty closely, I'm sure. Yeah, Peter, I think that's right.

Look, and there's really a couple of ways this can go. We have confirmed that Chris Christie is planning to suspend his campaign when he takes the stage in New Hampshire, just a few minutes from now. It's not clear if he plans to make any endorsement now or ever in this race, and that could change the dynamics in a couple of ways. When you look at the polling here, Christie's been in a distant third in New Hampshire, basically no matter how you slice it, but he appeals to much the same demographic of voters as has Nikki Haley up until this point.

More moderate voters, more independent voters, who of course make up a huge percentage of the potential pool of voters in New Hampshire, a much smaller presence here in Iowa. But Christie on the sideline presumably frees up those voters for any candidate who might be able to appeal to them, and obviously Nikki Haley's the first person you think of there. Our team has been in New Hampshire when they talk to voters, they often see that overlap between voters who are trying to decide between the two. And Christie himself has been kind of an enigma on this because he has in the past, of course, very publicly defended Nikki Haley, as he did during that most recent presidential debate when Vivek Ramaswami was attacking her.

We've also been very critical of her in recent days, including as recently as this morning, for her not being more outspoken about Donald Trump, not being willing to more clearly state that she wouldn't be willing to serve as his vice president, or to say as he has, that he believes Donald Trump is unfit for office. So whether Christie stays on the sidelines, or endorses Haley could have an effect here, he was obviously a very effective surrogate in 2016 for Donald Trump. The X-Factor here, as I heard from one Trump ally a short time ago is that it might not change the calculation that much in New Hampshire, because Christie does not bring with him very many Republicans, traditional Republicans, or MAGA Republicans, his favorability numbers within the modern Republican party are terrible. And while he's been a darling of the independence and a darling of kind of anti-Trump Democrats or perhaps right-leaning independents, he's not popular with the party in part because he has been so aggressive in going after Donald Trump.

And so we'll see what he has to say tonight and why he chooses to do over the next two weeks, I suppose, until New Hampshire votes. And I'm sure it'll be a topic of discussion tonight on the debate stage here in our theater. Sorry to interrupt you. I think you're finger on a really important point here.

That's one we're gonna be watching closely as the potential for an endorsement here in particular, because the basis for this campaign in many ways was right to take it to Donald Trump. And in effect, he had to start this whole campaign by apologizing, expressing an effect, remorse for supporting being the first candidate to stand side by side with Donald Trump the first time around when we did this. So it seems that relationship between him and Nikki Haley and whether he can feel comfortable that Haley would not serve as a vice president. The Trump is critical because the last thing, Christie, I would suggest can afford to his own reputation is that he got out of this race and endorsed someone who ended up becoming a Trumper in whatever the ticket looks like in 2024.

Yeah, and he said exactly that, Peter, on the campaign trail, that having made what he described as a decision between the lesser of two evils back in 2016 before endorsing Donald Trump against Hillary Clinton, he doesn't wanna do that again. He wants to make sure that he can be comfortable sort of living with himself with the endorsement that he makes. And if he's endorsing Nikki Haley, he wants to be sure not only that she's not gonna appear on a ticket with Donald Trump in 2024, that she's not gonna run with his imprimatur in 2028. So he's put all that out there.

I mean, he's been very public about the idea that there are things she could potentially say and do to ultimately win his support down the line. I mean, her first opportunity to do that would be tonight, but of course for Haley, she's got to walk a tightrope because the electorate here in Iowa, which votes on Monday, looks very different from the one in New Hampshire. And this has been part of Christie's criticism of her, is that she has tried to be, he believes, all things to all people. And by saying what he needs to hear in Iowa to get his support in New Hampshire, he could, Haley could, conceivably alienate voters, she needs to have a strong showing here that then she would need in New Hampshire.

Yeah, Garrett, hey, by the way, excellent reporting. And can I say it's good to see your ears for once, given you've been outside the frigid cold cover of the last several days. It's very good to be back in the sun. So it's just after the frigid temperatures there, and I will be talking to you and watching over the course of the next several days.

Let's get back to our panel with this breaking news. Just want to get everybody's first reactions to this, first Betsy, from you right now. All of a sudden, it makes New Hampshire a little bit more interesting, right? Who can gather what is?

According to those recent polls, I think roughly 12% of the votes. Nick Christie was holding on to you. Remember, one of the polls showed the separation between Trump and Haley at roughly six, seven, eight points. Yeah, that's a lot of people.

It's a meaningful constituency that he has in that particular state. And if Nicky Haley is betting her entire operation on doing really, really well and surprisingly well in New Hampshire, then getting Christie on board with her, no doubt would be quite a coup. The question I think right now is, what might Christie's team be trying to extract from Haley World in exchange for the most important endorsement of the moment? We want to show you live pictures right now, as we can show you what's happening in New Hampshire, as we anticipate.

The former governor of the state of New Jersey, Chris Christie, to deliver that announcement that he's suspending his campaign, Ramesh, your take on this right now. And how do you think this sort of, is this enough to sort of change the dynamic of this race right now? Because it's not like there's some other anti-Trump candidate in the race. Every other candidate's sort of been Trump, as I said, Trump adjacent.

Well, I think Christie's doing the right thing here, because his campaign had run out of any point. If the purpose was to stop Trump, then once it becomes clear that your campaign is actually helping Trump win the nomination, then there's- Because you're holding someone else back from Tennessee. Right, it loses its rationale. And Christie has himself said that if he were to drop out, a lot of his votes would go to Ailer de Santas, he did not specify where they would go.

As to whether it makes it a real race, the race that political journalists have wanted, and certainly the Trump opponents have wanted to see happen, that's not clear, because the polling has been a little bit all over the place in terms of how much of a gap there really is, how far ahead is Trump? And is there any race that's even possible to break out? Well, what's interesting is we're having this conversation just thinking on the fly. What happens to the Liz Cheney's, the Chris Christie's, these other people in the course of, you know, as we talk about the bargains and the potential for erosion for Joe Biden, right here, is there a potentially some erosion of Republicans who sit it out on the other side who would have supported, I don't know, someone other than Donald Trump here.

What does this say to you though, Congressman, about the State of the Republican Party? The Chris Christie who, you know, ran it all on beaten, Donald Trump is calling it a day before they even get to Iowa. Well, I think in the immediate event, it probably helped Haley because I think whether he endorses her or not, most of those- We'll just go there. We'll go there.

But it says something very dismal about the State of the Republican Party. In my view, we can't have a healthy democracy, unless we have at least two parties that are in there honestly duking it out over policy. We disagree with each other, you know, whatever. But this does not bode well for the Republican Party, having the kind of reckoning it needs to have and coming out the other side as a legitimate party that stands up for democracy.

Again, let's show you those live pictures. If we can right now, this is New Hampshire. We're waiting for Chris Christie to speak just moments from now. We'll keep you posted and share that with you.

And we do hear from him shortly. Remesh last thought to you right now. We're going to hear from Donald Trump tonight. We're going to hear from the two fighting to be in second place on this.

What, after Iowa, we go to New Hampshire. Does this race get past New Hampshire? That is a very, very big question. And it could be an anti-climactic couple of weeks here where it turns out that just as it looked for the last several months, Trump is still winning.

Yeah. And then we watched Trump by the way, campaign from the courtroom for a lot of the year 2024 as well. Betsy Wooders wants us to see you in person. It's always from Mitch Pooner and nice to see you former congressman.

And 11, always bludgeon Abby here. Thank you very much. We appreciate you're being with us this hour as well. Kristen is back tomorrow with more Beat the Press now.

NBC News now coverage continues with my friend, Hallie Jackson right now. Hi, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor host of the podcast The Drink. This month, I'm grabbing a matcha latte with comedian Taylor Tomlinson. The drink is always about someone's journey to the top.

And Taylor's story is remarkable. She tells us all about her unlikely path from performing in churches all the way to headlining her own Netflix specials like her latest prodigal daughter. And she opens up about her religious upbringing, what drew her to stand up, and how she feels when she gets on that stage. Hope you'll listen and follow The Drink wherever you get your podcasts.