Meet the Press NOW – January 29

If it's Wednesday. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. President Trump's take to run the Department of Health and Human Services gets grilled on his vaccine skepticism, some of his controversial public health theories and his changing views on abortion.

Plus the Trump administration surprise move to scrap a freeze on federal aid just a day after moving to implement it amid intensifying backlash from Democrats and confusion in government agencies. And the Pentagon pulls the security detail for Trump adversary General Mark Milling and raise the potential demotion in military right for the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Welcome to Meet the Press. Now I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, where Robert F.

Kennedy, Jr. Faced off with senators today in the first of two confirmation hearings to be HHS secretary. Lawmakers both sides of the aisle pressed him on his well established record as a vaccine skeptic and a pro choice Democrat. Kennedy also fielded questions about his ability to lead HHS, a sprawling department of more than 80,000 employees and 13 divisions, including critical public health agencies like the CDC, FDA, NIH, Medicare and Medicaid Services.

In his opening statement and throughout his testimony, Kennedy said he was not anti vaccine, which led to some really testy exchanges with Senate Democrats who brought up his frequent past public statements expressing doubts about vaccine safety. News reports have claimed that I'm any vaccine or any industry. I am neither. I am pro safety.

I believe that vaccines play a critical role in healthcare. All of my kids are vaccinated. I've written many books on vaccines. I support the measles vaccine.

I support the polio vaccine. I will do nothing against HHS secretary that makes it difficult or discourages people. From Peggy Anybody who believes that. On a look at the measles book you wrote saying parents have been misled into believing that measles is a deadly disease.

That's not true. Kennedy can kill off access to vaccines and make millions of dollars while he does it. Kids might die, but Robert Kennedy can keep cashing in. Senator, I support vaccines.

I support the childhood schedule. I will do that. The only thing I want is good science. Now, Democrats also pressed him on some of his unsubstantiated claims about genetic engineering of diseases.

Mr. Kennedy, did you say that COVID 19 was a genetically engineered bioweapon that targets black and white people but spared Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people? I didn't say it was deliberately targeted. I just quot NIH funded an NIH published study.

Did you say Lyme disease is a highly likely militarily engineered bioweapon? I probably did say that. Did you say That I want all of our colleagues to hear it, Mr. Kennedy.

I want them to hear it. You said. Yes. Did you say that exposure to pesticides causes children to become transgender?

No, I never said that. Okay. I have the record that I'll give to the chairman and he can make his judgment about what you said. Did you write in your book it's undeniable that African, African AIDS is an entirely different disease from Western AIDS?

Yes or no, Mr. Kennedy? I'm not sure. If I may, I'll give it to the chairman.

Mr. Kennedy, it doesn't matter what you come here and say. That isn't true. That's not reflective of what you really believe that you haven't said over decade after decade after decade.

Because unlike other jobs we're confirming around this place, this is a job where it is life and death. Now, senators on both sides of the aisle ask Kennedy about his past support for abortion rights, with Republicans securing a commitment that he will support President Trump's anti abortion agenda and Democrats pressing him about his sudden evolution on the issue. I agree with President Trump that every abortion is a tragedy. I agree with him that we cannot be a moral nation if we have 1.2 million abortions a year.

I agree with them that the states should control abortion. President Trump has told me that he wants to end late term abortions, that he wants to protect conscious exemptions, and that he wants to end federal funding for abortions here abroad. That's title 10. I'm going to.

I serve at the pleasure of the President. I'm going to implement his policies. You have clearly stated in the past that bodily autonomy is one of your core values. The question is, do you stand for that value or not?

When was it that you decided to sell out the values you had your whole life in order to be given power by President Trump? Senator, I agree with President Trump. Every abortion is a tragedy, that we can't be a moral authority in this country. So.

But that isn't what you said back in New Hampshire in 2023. My question is, exactly when did you decide to sell out your life's work and values to get this position? Senator, I agree with President Trump. Every portion is a tragedy.

So what you're telling us, just to be clear, because my time is limited, is that regardless of what you believe, regardless of what values you have, if President Trump tells you to do something, you're going to do it. Kennedy's testimony today comes as his cousin, Caroline Kennedy is publicly urging lawmakers to reject his nomination, calling him a, quote, predator who preys on the desperation of families. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because Bobby himself is a predator. He's always been charismatic, able to attract others through the strength of his personality, his willingness to take risks and break the rules.

I watched his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. Today, while he may encourage a younger generation to attend AA meetings, Bobby is addicted to attention and power. Bobby preys on the desperation of parents of sick children, vaccinating his own kids while building a following, hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs. Joining me now to break all of today's developments now is NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Brian Nobles, NBC News senior reporter Brandi Zadrozny, NBC News health and medical reporter Berkeley Lovelace, and Dr.

Amy Shadelja, senior scholar at Johns Hopkins center for Health Security. Thanks to all of you for starting us off. Ryan, me go to you first. You were there for all of the action, all the drama that unfolded today.

What do you think? I mean, we played a lot of really testy exchanges. What were the biggest takeaways for you today? Ryan?

Well, it certainly seemed person that Robert Kennedy Jr. Was trying to find a place where he wouldn't have to completely abandon his long held beliefs and the controversial statements and position that he's taken over the course of his years as a healthcare policy advocate, positioning himself in a way that he doesn't completely abandon those positions, but finds it a way to put them in a context that's a little more comfortable for a small group of Senate Republicans that may be considering abandoning ship and standing up to Donald Trump on this. He certainly is creating a bit of revisionist history in the way he describes his efforts around vaccines, saying that he's never been anti vaccine and just wants to look at the science behind it when there's a clear record of him being very hostile to vaccines, questioning and being a true skeptic to them up to to the point where it's led certain communities to consider whether or not a vaccine use is appropriate. But again, as Chris has always talked in these conformation hearings, there's probably a lot of Americans that watch the hearing that maybe thought it was a rocky performance and have a lot of questions about him being the next healthy human services secretary.

But it's not made for this group. It's made for that five or six House Republicans that may consider voting no. And I think while we played a lot of those highlights of the testing exchanges between Kennedy and senators, which I think are important. I think the most important exchange was between him and Bill Cassidy, the physician from Louisiana who is a strong proponent of vaccines, who actually asked him some very pointed policy questions about how he was going to administer Medicare and Medicaid, the differences between the two programs.

And Kennedy seemed to be a little bit lost about the specifics of that. And I think Cassidy's probably concerned about his ability to administer the responsibilities of being healthy Human Services secretary. And he's got to get to a place where he feels comfortable before he's ready to vote yes. Let me follow up with you on that point.

Do you have any reason to believe, because we know Keith Hex has had a really uphill battle as well, and it hinged on one senator. How is Tom Tillis going to vote? Ultimately, he voted yes. Do you have any indication that at this point RFK Jr does not have enough votes to get confirmed?

I think you need to start at a place of yes, they will get confirmed and work your way back when it comes to these Trump nominees and the way that they interface with Senate Republicans. Senate Republicans have continued to follow a pattern throughout this confirmation process. After Nat Gates exited the stage, they do a lot of talking behind the scenes. They raise questions, they raise concerns.

They say that they're worried about these nominees, but when push comes to shove and they're forced to be held accountable, they almost all fall in line. Now, I could give you the names of four or five, maybe six Republican senators who think have real reservations about Robert F. Kennedy Jr. I have a list of zero right now of House of Senate Republicans who have come forward and said that they are definitive no votes.

Could he potentially stumble tomorrow as well and get to a point where he does not meet the threshold for confirmation? That is not of the realm of possibility. But Kristen, at this point in the process, I still say it's very unlikely he will probably become the next secretary of Health and Human Services. Yeah, I mean, the last point you make is the critical one that so far no one is outwardly saying there are no vote.

It's such an important point to emphasize. Ryan, let me ask you. Obviously those statements by Caroline Kennedy got so much attention publicly calling her cousin a predator. What's the reaction been there on Capitol Hill?

There really isn't been a reaction, Kristen. You know, I think that Caroline Kennedy is a very famous person. The Kennedy family still holds a very important place in American history and American culture. I think that's part of the reason that Bobby Kennedy finds himself in this position of being the next Health and Human Services secretary.

But again, this isn't a hearing designed to convince a wide range of Americans. It's a hearing designed to just convince 100 senators to vote yes or no on a nominee. And I think that group of senators that may be waffling are really not that concerned about Caroline Kennedy and her opinion of the situation. They know that the Kennedy family doesn't feel comfortable with Robert F.

Kennedy, Jr. In this position. It's really more about his policy positions and whether or not they think he's up to the job. All right, thank you so much, Ryan.

Let me head over to Brandi now. So let's talk about some of what we heard in terms of his stance on vaccines. He's made a number of public statements expressing skepticism, and yet today, he tried to convince everyone that, yes, he would support vaccines. What did you make of some of those exchanges, Brandi?

Today was a bizarro world. I followed Kennedy for the last decade, and I've heard him make dozens and dozens, hundreds of statements maligning vaccines, saying that they cause widespread injury and death, saying they're dangerous. He said in 2020 that he regretted getting his own children vaccinated. He said, if only I could take that back, I would do anything, I would pay anything to take it back.

He believes that they cause vaccines caused all his children's allergies. He said in 2021, when Charlie Kirk asked him, if you had to do it today, would you get them vaccinated? He said, no, I would never get any kid vaccinated again. In 2021, when he was on a health freedom podcast, they said, you know, what should we do about everybody?

Nobody likes anti vaxxers. And he said during the pandemic, our time to come out is now. And he said, quote, our job is to resist and to talk about it with everybody. If you're walking down the street and I do this now myself, I.

If somebody. If I see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby, I say to him, better not get him vaccinated. And he heard that from me, and he hears it from 10 other people. Maybe he won't do it.

You know, maybe he will save that child. So to say that he's a vaccine skeptic is just not really representative of what he said over the last 20 years. He is anti vaccine. It may be uncomfortable when someone says, no, I'm not, but he is.

There's no other way to go about it. And so, you know, he says that he's not saying it was a total reversal, not just on one or two vaccines, but he said today to Senator Warren, senator, I support vaccines. I support the childhood schedule. I've never heard anything like that from Kennedy in the past.

It's a complete reversal. And so the question is, you know what? His supporters were filling the room from the group Children's Health Defense. The executive director was there.

There were followers and supporters there from Children's Health Defense and from other anti vaccine groups. And when I reached out to them today and said this is new, what do you think about it? Seems to me that they might know that he might not really mean it. Someone said to me we know where he stands and we're not bothered by those comments.

So fascinating insight. Ready, thank you for that look back which as you say, you have been covering him so closely. So it's really critical to look back on those comments and those anecdotes that you shared. Berkeley, let me turn to you.

What were some of your takeaways from hearing today, particularly as it relates to how he might oversee this sprawling agency of hhs? Yeah, so there are a lot of things that were unclear before that kind of got were made a little bit more clear. So for example, Kennedy made comments about Berkeley, the Berkeley crisis before it was really unclear whether or not the Trump administration would devote resources to the Berkeley crisis. And so Kennedy said that he would devote resources to outbreak for that as well as he also support the inflation reduction, Medicare drug pricing negotiation provision as well.

And so before it was uncle whether or not they would support that. And then on top of that, I did notice he did seem to stumble a lot about health insurance and Medicaid. So on Medicaid he did say that a lot of people don't support Medicaid or people who don't like coverage don't support it. Although polling suggests that a lot of people actually overwhelmingly majority of Americans do like Medicaid.

He also kind of fumbled a bit about the specifics of it. He said people Medicaid have too high premiums. But although people on Medicaid don't pay premiums, I think he probably meant referring to Medicare as well. He also said people don't like the Obamacare premiums as well.

And so it's a little bit more clear on his regards to stances on health insurance. But he just seems to stumble a bit about it. And we had a little trouble with your mic. We got it fixed.

Thank you for hanging in there through that, powering through it. What did we learn about his stance on health Care costs today because obviously that's been such a big focus, a big topic of conversation. The Affordable Care act should be repealed and replaced. What did you think?

It's a mixed bag. I think the biggest news was that the Trump administration supports the inflation Reduction Act, Medicare drug pressing negotiation provision. And so there's a little bit unclear whether or not they would support that and whether or not they would try to repulate similar to Trump stance on the Affordable Care Act. And so they did say they support that.

And right now they're in an ongoing negotiations with it. They're currently negotiating 15 drugs on that as well. He did seem to side with Trump on Obamacare. He said that Obamacare is increasingly unpopular, which won't suggest that's not true at all, that people do like their Obamacare coverage.

So we could see in this incoming administration if Kennedy has confirmed him trying to move to try to weaken that law, which is something similar to happened in the first Trump administration. So there are some concerns there and of course there are ongoing lawsuits as well. Try to get certain provisions as well as remove Far Asia. Well, it's a really important perspective.

When I interviewed President Trump, he basically said if I can replace Obamacare with something better, he'd be open to that. But to your point how popular it is, a lot of Republicans say it's not realistic. Berkeley, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

Dr. Dawson, let me turn to you now as a doctor and as a public health expert, what were your key takeaways from today's hearing? He's basically trying to rewrite reality and try and make his views more palatable. He's just a vaccine skeptic that just wants more safety data when that's not been his record.

This is the person who said he wanted to wreck a statue to the person who debunked the person that linked autism with vaccines. He wanted to have an Andrew Wakel stature. So this isn't something that anybody should believe. I think this is just him wanting to get confirmed and he really is a, I would call it destroyer of health.

He's got this nihilistic fixed idea that vaccines are harmful. And I think it would be a disaster for him to be in charge of hhs. And I wasn't convinced of any of this and I think nobody should be convinced. This is just someone trying to get into a position of power to create more chaos and destruction.

You know, I'm curious what you make about his comments. When he was pressed on Covid, he said that the US had worse outcomes of COVID than other countries because of chronic disease and food quality. Can you just give us the fact check on that? Is there any credence to that?

What do you make of that? Certainly COVID 19 synergizes with diseases like diabetes, hypertension and obesity. And the US does have a problem with all three of those conditions. And that does make COVID 19 worse.

And that's part of the reason why we had more worse outcomes in other countries that don't have as much of that. But a lot of our outcomes had to do with mismanagement from the government from the very beginning. Basically there was evasion by the Trump administration. Administration for January, February, half of March before they started to do things, they started doing the wrong things and that's why we had such bad outcomes.

But yes, it definitely did synergize. But I don't think that RFK Jr. Is someone that's going to guide us out of these chronic disease epidemics that we have because he doesn't even believe in the scientific method. It's only science that's going to solve these problems, not his latitudes.

So, Dr. Josh, obviously one of the biggest questions what we've been talking about this segment, his views on vaccines. He says he'll stick to the science, just as you're saying when it comes to vaccines. What should people take from that?

Given his past statements in which he's clearly tried to link vaccines with autism, which again, study after study shows there is no link. He is an unprincipled person that's basically lying. I think there's no other way to put it. He's lying about his past statements.

He's lying about what he's trying to do for vaccines. I think that people should just dismiss it. This isn't the Robert Kennedy that we've seen for the last several decades. This isn't the Robert Kennedy who made millions of dollars with the anti vaccine movement.

This is a totally different person who wants to be confirmed and is trying to say something that will sway some senators that might be on the fence about voting for him to think it's okay to vote for him. But nobody should be fooled. This is a destroyer. This is someone who is against one of the technologies that humans invented that have allowed us to flourish, that have added decades of all of our lives and save hundreds of millions of people.

He is against that. If you're against that, you cannot be a good person at heart. You are what Ken Kennedy set up, a predator. If you're going to get against a life giving technology like vaccines.

Let me ask you broadly speaking about a slightly different matter, which is that President Trump last week ended cooperation between the CDC and the who, the World Health Organization. What are the potential implications of that here but also globally, the basic implication is that the US Will get information on lag. We won't have situational awareness of infectious disease emergencies that are occurring all over the world. People report their outbreaks to the who, not to the cdc.

So if we're trying resilient in the United States to infectious disease outbreaks, we have to be part of the who. While there definitely are reforms that need to happen at the who, there's no way that those are going to happen unless the US Is at the table. So I think this is the wrong decision and it makes us less safe and it only increases the chances of infectious disease outbreaks firing out of control of the US is not part of this. All right.

Dr. Amisha Dasha, thank you so much for your insights. We do really appreciate it. We also want to tell you about some breaking news that we're following.

It's tied to Capitol Hill. Just moments ago, former New Jersey Democratic Senator Bob Menendez was sentenced to 11 years in prison following his conviction for a years long bribery and corruptions corruption scheme that included him accepting bribes of barbs of cash and gold bars. Bribes of cash and gold bars. Menendez was found guilty in July of extortion, conspiracy, obstruction of justice and acting as a foreign agent to benefit the government of Egypt and Qatar.

Coming up, a major 180 from the Trump administration as it rescinds a freeze on federal aid amid a flurry of questions and objections. Plus, President Trump signs his first immigration bill into law and announces plans to housing migrants at Guantanamo Bay as he offers buyouts for all federal employees. Say with us. You're watching me depress now.

Welcome back. This afternoon the Office of Management and Budget announced it was rescinding its memo ordering a freeze on some federal aid less than a day after it was put into effect and then put on hold by a federal judge. But today's move has created continued confusion with the press secretary on social media suggesting the administration is still pursuing some kind of a freeze on federal aid if it is not in line with the President's executive orders. Now all of this comes as President Trump sign the first law of his second term, the Lincoln Riley act, which aims to clamp down on undocumented immigrants who commit nonviolent crimes.

Additionally, the Trump administration is stripping more than 600,000 Venezuelans of their temporary protected status, meaning they can now be deported. And finally, the administration is ramping up its efforts overall. The federal government offering buyouts to nearly all federal workers. Move.

The president spoke about just today. Look, we think a very substantial number of people will not show up to work, and therefore, our government will get smaller and more efficient. And that's what we've been looking to do for many, many decades. Joining us now is senior White House correspondent Kelly o'.

Donnell. Kelly, thanks so much for being here. Boy, another incredibly frenetic day at the White House. So let's start with this rescinding yesterday's memo, which basically froze federal aid.

Where does that stand and what is the clarification, Kelly? Well, Kristen, good be with you. And by rescinding the memo, the Trump administration stops the court intervening, which a court did put an injunction, expanded the time. And by rescinding it, that negates that.

And they, one could infer, don't want to have to be in the court system about this. So they pulled that off the table. And what they're saying is there are executive orders that the president has signed, many that he has signed. And within that large group, there are some that explicitly said there would be freezes on federal funding to states in certain areas.

When you think about things like diversity, equity, inclusion programs, what they like to call woke ideology, transgender care, different things like that that really fall into those cultural priorities for the Trump administration, other executive orders that they say still have an effect. It is unclear to us exactly how that will all play out. But what is very clear is that the broad intentions of the Trump administration to tamp down on some of the spending where it does not agree with the priorities that will try to go forward in different ways that they can do it. So this is more of a tactical move to rescind the memo, not a change of their intentions.

Such an important clarification, Kelly. Thank you for that. Let's talk about the other big news today. The president signing the Lincoln Riley act into law, as I just announced, that essentially allows authorities to be able to detain those who have been accused of committing nonviolent crimes.

But in the middle of giving a speech about that, he basically announced plans for a detention center at Guantanamo Bay to hold migrants. What more can you tell us about this? Well, it was a stunning update because there was no advance of the president's remarks alerting us to the fact that he would make this announcement. And very often, aides and advisors who read the speech in advance give us a heads up so that we are prepared to talk about these issues and to pursue them.

So President Trump is saying that Guantanamo Bay, the facilities that have been used for typically terrorism suspects, have been held for long term detention. It's been a very controversial place. And you recall on the first day of the Obama administration, he said he wanted to close Guantanamo Bay. It still exists.

It has been greatly reduced in numbers in that category of detainees. President Trump saying use that facility as a place to house migrants who are captured and detained in these enforcement operations that are happening around the country. A lot of questions about this. Our colleagues were able to talk briefly to Tom Holman.

The orders are, Christine, the Secretary of Homeland Security, to ask them about it a short time after the event. And Mr. Holman says ICE will manage this facility. Secretary Noem said, and when asked about what it would cost, she said they're still working that out.

So it had an on the fly quality to it as a policy proposal. There's still a lot more to be understood about how they would use that. We know that there is a question of a need for capacity for housing migrants if they're detained and being relocated. And perhaps this is how Mr.

Mr. Holman is going to go forward. President says Guantanamo is available. Let's try to use it.

And we're gonna try to find out more about what that would look like and how it would work. I know it'll be one of the key focuses there in the days and weeks ahead. Kelly, just finally the administration giving all their employees the option return to work full time in person or take a buyout. What's the thinking behind that and the strategy behind that?

Well, they want to reduce the federal workforce. They specifically also want to reduce those workers in the civil service in offices all around the country who do not agree with President Trump's policies and his views about the government. So it talks about wanting loyal employees. Typically, civil service employees don't have any specific loyalty other than constitutional requirements to a president.

It's not a political job. So they're hoping to reduce the workforce. There are lawmakers say the authorization to pay them a severance package is not in law. So here again an idea put forward.

Lots of questions about how it would be implemented. Yeah, it seems to be a theme with all three issues we talked about. Kelly o' Donnell covering every single angle force at the White House, as always, marathon runner that you are. Thank you.

Kelly O. Appreciate it. Coming up next, we'll have a live report from the Pentagon after the newly confirmed Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth announced a series of actions targeting the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who President Trump excoriated during his campaign, at one point suggesting he deserved the death penalty. We'll delve into that, according to qb.

Stay with us. You're watching. Be the Press now. Stay informed with the NBC News app Breaking news just coming in moments ago.

Watch, read and listen throughout your day and now unlock even more with a subscription. It's the best NBC News with fewer ad instructions, including ad free articles, podcasts, full NBC News shows, plus deeper access and exclusive content. Let's just take a step back. It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust.

Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Get the best of NBC News with a subscription, viewer ads, deeper access and exclusive content. And now, during the Xfinity Member Celebration, members can get an exclusive 50% off an annual subscription. Head to xfinity.com membership to learn more.

Xfinity Imagine that subscription automatically renews each year at 6599 S's and fees until canceled. Hotter ends May 12, 2026. The price is subject to change. Visit nbcnews.comxfinity for full offer terms and details.

As the day wraps up, get this scoop on what's been happening with here's the Scoop, the podcast for NBC News with your host Daphne Masudian. We'll take a deep dive into today's top stories with NBC News's trusted journalists. It's a fresh take that sharp, thoughtful and it's informative bring you closer to headlines and convers shaping our world. The Front Page the Zeitgeist here's the scoop from NBC News.

Listen daily on Spotify. Welcome back. In one of his first moves since being sworn in to lead the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth revoked the security clearance and security detail of former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley. He also ordered a review of whether the retired general's rank should be reevaluated.

In addition, two portraits of General Milley were removed from the walls of the Pentagon. Officials wouldn't say what was behind those decisions. Milley, who served as chairman of the Joint chiefs during President Trump's first term, has clashed with Mr. Trump, and in anticipation of potential retaliation, he was included in a slew of preemptive pardons issued by former President Biden in his final days in office.

Joining now to discuss all of this is Courtney Hughie from the Pentagon. Pentagon Correspondent Court thanks so much for being here. So what's the reaction been inside the DOD to this move by Secretary Hedge. Surprise.

In a word, it's definitely been a lot of surprise. I mean, I remember Kristen, that first portrait that you mentioned when, which is the chairman of the Joint Chief's portrait for General Mark Milley, that was actually removed on day one. We still don't know who actually ordered that. It was before Secretary Hexaf was even confirmed or sworn into the job.

Now that happened on day one. But just yesterday, late last night, we found out that in fact Secretary Hexaf, one of his first moves on day one at the Pentagon was to inform General Millie that he was revoking his security detail, revoking his security clearance. And as you mentioned, he was directing the Department of Defense Inspector general to conduct an inquiry into Millie's time as a general officer to determine whether he has served. He served in grade in a way that was appropriate for where he retired.

He retired as a four star general, the oig, the Office of Inspector General. Keep in mind, Christian, the IG was one of those who was fired late Friday night. So there's an acting there right now. But the inspector general will provide some sort of a recommendation that could ultimately lead to a review of a grade determination board.

So a group of Millie's peers, for all intents and purposes could ultimately look at his time as a four star general and could decide that maybe he should be bumped down in rank. It would impact his retirement pay that he would have for life, for instance. This could have a big impact on General Mark Milley. I will say this is not a quick process, neither the IG's office nor redetermination boards.

I don't expect this happen very quickly. But the security detail and the clearance that will be much after. Kristen. It's just really a stunning set of developments there at the Pentagon which of course echo what we're seeing across all government agencies.

Court, thank you so much for joining us with that really critical information. We appreciate it. After the break, I'll talk to one of the Senate democrats who questioned RFK Jr today about where he stands on a number of public health issues amid an intense and combative confirmation hearing for the president's pick to run hhs. Stay with us.

You're watching me the PRESS now. Welcome back. As we mentioned, Robert F. Kennedy had his first of two days of Senate hearings as President Trump's nominee to lead the Department of Health and Human Services.

Let's get right to one of the senators who questioned Mr. Kennedy today. Join me now is New Mexico Senator Ben Ray Lujan who questioned Kennedy as a member of the Senate Finance Committee today. Senator Lujan, thank you so much for joining us.

Really appreciate it. It's honorable today. Thanks for having me. Well, it's an honor to have you here.

Let's start with one of the big topics. Mr. Kennedy today saying he is not anti vaccine. Of course, a lot of people have noted that goes against a number of public statements that he has made.

Do you believe him when he says he's not anti vaccine vaccine? Kristen, through all the questions that were asked today, what was clear is that podcast after podcast, recording after recording and book after book that Kennedy himself wrote, it's all clear, he is not for vaccines, against vaccines, has made the argument over and over again and he's profited millions and millions of dollars off this position as well. So, look, that's just one of the questions that I think had both Republicans and Democratic members of the United States Senate puzzle today. I want to play some of your exchange with Mr.

Kennedy today. Get your reaction on the other side, yes or no, do you support cutting Medicaid or reducing? And especially in an area where you and I spoke about with the federal investment in medication case, which is known as fmap. President Trump has not told me that he wants Medicaid.

He told me to make it better. Do you support cutting, yes or no? Let me ask you this one, since you're it's only about President make it better. Senator, if President Trump asked you to cut Medicaid, will you do it?

Oh, it's not up to me to cut Medicaid. It'll be up to Congress. Senator, what did you make of his answers? Were they satisfactory to you?

Was that what you were looking for? Absolutely not satisfactory. What was clear is he was trying to evade the question. Number one, when my Republican colleagues would ask a question or two, it seemed like he had a straight answer, knew the policy.

But what was clear today, whether it was this hearing or other hearings from Mr. Kennedy himself saying President Trump said to do this or not to do this, what's clear along the lines of one of my colleagues asking questions that he's just gonna be a rubber stamp here today. And it's not hard to say that if you support Medicaid as a program to deliver healthcare to millions of people across America, that the answer is simply no, you will not cut it. But he could have much the strength of the courage to do that.

It was very unfortunate. So just to be very clear, it sounds like you're a no vote for Mr. Kennedy. Look, I'm doing my best to stay open minded to all of these folks today.

But this hearing today, not giving clear answers to members of the United States Senate, whether it's asking about vaccines or Medicaid or other programs itself, not being able to answer simple questions about the responsibility to be the top United States health official as the secretary of Health and Human Service is very, very concerning. As of right now, where I'm sitting waiting for more questions to be answered, I certainly am needing. No, very quickly, do you think he has enough votes to get confirmed right now? Do you have a sense of it?

You know, it doesn't seem to me right now that he has or does not have the votes based on some of the questions that were being asked today. And one thing that I'm good at is county votes. And right now I can't count the votes to get him over the top. We'll see what happens between now and the time that he gets to to the floor.

All right. We will see what happens. Indeed. Let me get your reaction very quickly.

President Trump had this frankly, surprise announcement that his administration is planning to put some of the migrants that they detained who are undocumented at Guantanamo Bay. What was your reaction to hearing that? Is it realistic? What do you think?

This is the first of hearing that one. I would say it's very, very concerning right now. Even if you talk to the people that President Trump has appointed in this particular space, Mr. Holman and others, they're saying that they don't have enough money to carry out this nonsense that they're carrying out today.

How are they going to be able to do this? Mean that the cost alone of going to even look at Guantanamo Bay. You know, the one thing that President Trump should do, Guantanamo Bay is close it. You know, the White House is also revoking TPS authorization to hundreds of thousands of Venezuelan migrants who did have legal protection and work permits under the Biden administration.

These are folks who followed the rules at the time. They're now at risk of deportation. It will probably get tied up in the courts. But what was your reaction to this?

Look, so many of my colleagues here in Washington, D.C. democrats and Republicans, we've all been asking to fix a broken immigration system. One of the legal pathways to immigration in America is using tps, which is a tool that Democratic and Republican presidents have both used. As a matter of fact, President Trump used TPS the last month that he was in office, during his first term.

This just doesn't make any sense associated with what we're seeing from home and not only looking at targeting tps, but now going into churches and schools. Democrats want to work with Republicans to pick this broken immigration system to provide support for more security investments as well. Well, we're seeing coming from this administration should concern so many people. And remember, it was this president that brought us separating kids from their families as well.

And I'm terrified of what we're going to see coming up the next few weeks, the next few months. Speaking of working with Republicans, let me ask you 12 of your Senate colleagues, including your neighbors, States Senator Rumor Gallego voted for the Lake and Riley Act. President Trump signed that into law today. Of course, they appear to have seen this as an opportunity to address some of the concerns that voters say they have about issues at the border.

Why didn't you? You voted no. Look, I'm not going to speak for my colleagues votes. They can speak for themselves.

I voted no against a piece of legislation because of concerns of what it ultimately would do. This is going to take resources away from other officials that have responsibility for going after criminals. There's a question of what beds would even have been made available if someone was detained for stealing. Dumb.

For example, if someone that was being held and incarcerated for murder or for rape if they would have to be let out in order to make room for them. This bill as written does not make any sense. As a matter of fact, fact, Democrats were asking for amendments on this particular piece of legislation. So one, we may not be able to fix it entirely, but you can make it work a little bit better.

And a Republican college are more about the politics than we're about the policy. Just as when Donald Trump called on our Republican colleagues as a candidate to take down a bipartisan agreement for which would have been one of the toughest board security bills in the history of the United States. Using social media, Donald Trump's told Republicans voted down and they voted down. They just fell in line.

That's no way to fix a broken immigration system in America. All right. Senator Ben Lujan, thank you. Please come back soon.

Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Still a combination a major league of executive orders, confirmation hearings, government upheaval and White House confusion. And it's only Wednesday.

We'll dig into all the politics. Politics. The panel's Max. You're watching THE Press now.

Welcome back. Let's get right to the panel. Joining me now is Kevin Fry, Washington correspondent for New York 1, former Maryland Democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards. She is also an NBC News contributor and Republican strategist Matt Gorman.

Thanks to all of you for being here. So this is another incredibly busy week for the Trump administration. Let's start with this spending freeze. It's been a little confusing.

They sent out a memo basically halting federal aid and spending on some of these key organizations. And then they reversed. There was a legal intervention, and now they're basically rescinding the memo. That's a legal maneuver, according to R.

Kelly o'. Donnell. What do you think of it? Yeah, but at the same time, I mean, look, the Democrats have really found an issue finally, after about a week and a half of what are they doing, what are they focusing on?

They have one Senator Schumer has been having now daily events about this to try to pound Republicans in the White House for their handling of this. He today was citing the fact that he was getting calls from nonprofits, from organizations back home, from Republican local officials who are calling his office, saying, what the heck do we do about our infrastructure investments and other things that partners are working on back home? So they believe that they finally have an issue after kind of receiving plenty of criticism that they weren't necessarily latching on to one issue and coming up with one strategy to combat the White House. They seem to at least found their first one.

It's a really great point, Matt. And what we're seeing, I mean, in watching this all unfold, some people are saying, you know, Trump got off to a very quick start in terms of signing executive orders, laying out his policy agenda. And then this felt a little bit like the first Trump administration putting out a policy, rolling it back, getting the backlash, and then, you know, reacting to that. Palmer first 10 days was really precise and precision in his all executive orders, everything it did out of clear plan to host them.

This was the first one that felt very vague. And I think it allowed a vacuum to form when Democrats that they could really pile on this because even other Republicans were really clear. And one note I took note of David Gorman, right. The new senator from Pennsylvania.

We heard a lot input from Pennsylvania. And so that was a little tongue to me. But you're right, this was the first one where there was a vagueness to it that a lot of Democrats latch onto. Yeah.

Well, speaking of which, Donna, this is what Hakeem Jeffries posted. He said, round one goes to Team America. We remain in the ring until far right extremism has been completely and totally knocked out. So again, to this point that Kevin raises, they're still Democrats are trying to find their messaging and footing.

They've latched onto this. But what do you make of it. They're not quite out of the wilderness yet. No.

But I do think that what happened here is that this had a real world impact. Most federal payments are made by an electronic payment system that all stopped. That is what resulted in calls from community health plans and nonprofits and, you know, a whole slew of organizations and government entities. And so it was an easy one in some ways for Democrats to grab because it had a very tangible impact on people's lives.

Yeah. And it also plays into the messaging that Democrats have certainly been leaning into in the last couple weeks, which is that we're the party that's looking out and actually care about trying to bring down prices, whereas the Trump White House is all distracted. You can argue whether or not that's accurate. At least that fits into their paradigm that they operate.

Matt, the urgency for them to bring down prices, there's been so much focus. He's only been in office a few days. But the timeline, I mean, they must feel that urgency to actually be able to show some work. I don't think.

Yeah. I think Democrats are trying to play this bachelor game. Pictures of egg prices five days in. I didn't miss the point a little bit as suddenly people now are blaming out Trump for the price against that.

I think you'll start to see as we go into spring and there's a bill, whether it's, you know, energy taxes, not one thing start to kind of crystallize a lot of this happening right now. But I'm not that worried about that political circle yet. But you take me to the next point, which is Republicans had a retreat. They talked about their agenda.

How were they going to get it through? This is what House Speaker Johnson had to say. Take a look. We believe that we are going to engage now in what can be the greatest, one of the greatest pieces of legislation in the history of the United States Congress, because it will be so consequential because we have to fix everything and we have a mandate from the people to do so.

Kevin, obviously, Speaker Johnson, President Trump, they want this big beautiful bill which President Trump describes it as basically lumping everything together. The border, taxes. What are you hearing about how realistic it is to actually get that through? Well, I mean, we'll start with it's slightly clear that they still have settled on what exactly, exactly the plan is going forward.

Is it one bill or is it two bills or is it what goes in these bills and do you lump into debts ceiling? That's probably non starter because of some of the Republicans that would need to be on board to pass the thing at large. The bottom line is whichever route they plan to take, which Trump arguably isn't really helping because he's kind of keeping the door open to two bills, even if he says he wants the one big beautiful bill. The bottom line is the Republicans all have to be in line behind us.

There is no margin for error. They might pick up one or two more seats in the next couple months once those special elections go through. But it's still basically a paper inventory. And because there are different coalitions in the Republican caucus, we have SALT caucus that wants to deal with state, local tax deductions, mainly in states like New York and California that help deliver them the majority.

Or if you look at the more conservative Freedom Caucuses caucus, that's going to balk if they're not sufficient cuts for them. There's a very fine line for security on the walk here. There really is. Matt, how do you see it unfolding?

What are you hearing about where they're leaning? I mean, it seems like he was arguing for this one big bill. You're actually right. They just need one big bill because they need to be able to entice the assault provisions because remember, at least a fine vote against tax though for the salt provisions.

So they need it as much as they can, one bill so that they know it looks prepared. I don't believe they'll get much of anything until April. Trump should have it involved very, very deeply in a way that he ended the debt ceiling in the spending fight, but didn't it first? He needs to be in this in depth.

How do you see Democrats playing their hand in this? Is there anything that they are going to try to work with Republicans on or are they going to basically try to obstructionists? Well, look, I do think that there is going to be some synergy around SALT Texas, which is really important for a lot of Democratic members. But the reality is that Democrats are not going to get what they want.

Their job is going to be to highlight the bad things stuff so that the American people understand it. And you describe them as coalitions, not really coalitions, more like factions in the Republican Party. We're seeing this play out. Many of those Freedom Caucus members in fact were not at me at the retreat and I think that's a really key absence.

Interesting. Let's talk about the hearing today with RFK Jr. A lot of Tessie heated exchanges. We just talked to Senator Lujan who said he's leaning toward no.

What were your big takeaways from the hearing? Today, well, it was really clear that RFK Jr is way outside of the mainstream of health care, of healthcare, policy, of science. And that was on full display today. He didn't seem to have a command of a lot of policy issues that are faced by the Department of Health and Human Services.

And so it could give an out to a couple more Republican members to vote against him. You know, Matt, there's the optics of these exchanges and then there's the vote count. He can only afford to lose three votes. But we with Pete Hexef, who was facing up a battle battle for defense secretary, in the end, he had the votes.

Is it your assumption that in the end RFKGB will have to vote yes? Because voting against Republican nominees for Susan Collins and Murkowski, the bank is endless. You get one and they use one. He said obviously maybe two.

You can't vote against everybody. Right. So if you're student college, you're sitting there, you're thinking, I want maybe one more vote. No, do you want to use nrfk Tulsi again might not make a difference at the other day as big.

Yeah. So what do you make of that point, Kevin? Do you think that RFK Jr. Is going to have a tougher time getting through or Tulsi gap?

There's so many questions. I only have 30 seconds left, but they're all for you. No pressure. I mean, I would say keep an eye on folks like Senator Liberal Cassidy, Senator McConnell as well, in no small part because his own personal background in battle of polio.

And then also, also, I mean he has clearly concerns about Tulsa Gab as well. So if your model is correct and it's going to come down to which battles are you choosing? He's already given away on one which didn't really have much of an impact because Senator Tulsa come along with him. So Tuxi pick one of the other.

All right. Well, we'll be watching. Thank you for a great conversation, Kevin, Donna and madam, for being so quick. Kevin, appreciate it.

We're back tomorrow with more of the press now. And we'll have live special coverage of the second confirmation here for FBI Director nominee Cash Patel and the director of National Intelligence nominee Tulsi Gabbard. That's tomorrow morning right here on NBC News. Now the news continues with Hallie Jackson right now.

Hey, everyone, I'm Dylan Dryer, co host of the third hour of Today and mom to three wild boys. I've learned a lot my years as a parent, mostly that I don't have it all figured out yet. And I'm not the only one. This is my new podcast, the Parent Chat.

Each week I sit down with someone new for honest conversation and real world advice about parenting. I'm over here just, like, winging it. Hey, I'm trying not to screw my own gift. I'm going to give you advice.

Search parent chat on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.