If it's Wednesday, bracing for action, U.S. officials tell NBC News they are ready in a week-long military campaign against Iran-backed proxies in the Middle East, as the FBI Director warns Congress that Chinese hackers are preparing to wreak havoc on critical U.S. infrastructure. Plus, border battle break down as political feuds rage in Washington-Pitting House Republicans against the White House, state governments are bearing the brunt of a broken border in the Reddit migration, and a tense and emotional hearing on Capitol Hill as top-tech CEOs face Congress and the victims' families testifying about child safety and sexual exploitation on social media.
The remarkable moment Mark Zuckerberg got up and addressed those families directly. Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Gabe Buterris in Washington, where President Biden is facing multiple urgent foreign policy challenges and new warnings from two of America's most significant adversaries. The administration is ready in response to the deadly attack in Jordan that killed three U.S.
service members. U.S. officials are describing the upcoming retaliatory strikes as a campaign that could last for weeks. President Biden spoke to the families of the fallen yesterday, emphasizing America's sacred obligation to our service members.
This conversation with specialist Kennedy Sanders' parents was captured on video, and here's part of that emotional exchange. We trust whatever decision you make going forward, we trust that it will be the best interest of our country. Thank you for everything that you're doing. Well, thank you.
Keep me in your prayers. I pray every single day that I make the right decisions. Such grief during that phone call, and as the U.S. finalizes what targets it, we'll go after the Commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard issued a warning today that no U.S.
threat will be, quote, left unanswered. Meanwhile, the Defense Department announced today it's shot down in cruising on the Red Sea that was launched by Houthi rebels in Yemen. But it's not just the warnings out of the Middle East that the administration is grappling with, not a hearing on Capitol Hill today. FBI Director Christopher Ray sounded the alarm about the growing threat from China.
The FBI Director said hackers back by China's Communist Party are targeting U.S. critical infrastructure, including water treatment plants, electrical grids, oil and gas pipelines, and transportation systems. China's hackers are positioning on American infrastructure in preparation to wreak havoc and cause real-world harm to American citizens and communities, if and when China decides the time has come to strike. They're not focused just on political and military targets.
We can see from where they position themselves across civilian infrastructure that low blows aren't just a possibility in the amount of conflict, low blows against civilians are part of China's plan. And joining me now is M.E.C. News White House correspondent Monica Alba and M.E.C. News Justice and Intelligence correspondent, Candelania.
Monica, I want to start with you. What more do we know about the discussions going on at the White House about how the U.S. war responds? Well, because gave this situation and requires what the White House says is likely a larger multi-phase response, there are still some things that need to be worked out before we begin to understand what this will look like, but we are learning a little bit more from U.S.
officials about the timeline and how long this could take U.S. officials are describing this as a campaign that could last for weeks, and it's not just retaliatory strikes, which known as a kinetic response, it's likely something that we will see in terms of cyber operations and cyberspace as well. This is really something where today in the White House press briefing they're very careful in terms of wanting to telegraph anything specific, and they're saying for sure it will be clear when there is a response. So this is something, of course, because U.S.
service members lost their lives, that has been escalated to a new level of response from the Biden administration, but at the same time they have wanted to be very careful to point out they don't want to see this conflict escalate, and they do not seek any kind of war with Iran that said, because it was Iranian-backed proxies that were responsible for this drone attack on U.S. troops, there is going to be a response we expect that will target Iranian assets, but as of now gave, we understand that will be outside of Iran, and that is really significant as we wait to see exactly how this plays out. That's why something for our viewers yesterday, we heard that the president had decided how to respond, but right now it sounds like the details are still being ironed out. Exactly, and this is something where when the president was asked if he had made a decision about how to respond, when he just said the word yes, we took that to mean essentially that of the menu of options he was presented with on Monday in a situation room meeting that we know took place with the Defense Secretary, with the National Security Advisor, the president indicated what he would like to see as the ideal scenario for a response, but because it has multiple components, it means that there is more information that needs to be gathered before it can be carried out, and there are always of course technical considerations for best timing, but we do also know, Gabe, that there will likely be multiple locations that are hit when this does happen, which could mean multiple countries, since of course that attack took place in Jordan, but where we have seen many U.S.
troops and personnel targeted is in countries like Syria, in Iraq, where some of these Iranian-backed militias have some of their weapons stored as well, Gabe. Monica Alba, at the White House, I want to turn now to Ken Delaney in here, the other threat that the U.S. is facing right now, China and Christopher Ray's testimony today. Now, the FBI has warned about cyber threats coming from China before, but why is this different?
Well, today was specifically about Chinese threats to critical infrastructure, like water treatment plants in the power grid, and that's really not new, Gabe. I can remember reporting on China being in our electric grids 10 years ago, but what's new is the stark nature of the rhetoric, the extent to which these top officials are willing to level with the American public about just how dangerous this is, and specifically what they said was China wants to make it very painful for the U.S. to contemplate defending Taiwan in the event of mainland invasion. They want to up the cost of that.
So does the U.S. have the capabilities to deal with the cyber threat? Well, in some cases they do, and today they announced an operation where they took down a hacking network, but they also were very frank today that a lot of our critical infrastructure is outdated, is insecure, and it's kind of an open door for Chinese hackers to walk through. And Ken, we're also learning about this China-backed hacking group called Volt-Highphone.
What more do we know about this group and how the FBI was able to disrupt itself? Yeah, that was a sophisticated operation designed to burrow into critical infrastructure and use botnets and a lot of complicated stuff. And the FBI was using a court-ordered legal process to seize control of some of the infrastructure, take it down, disable it. So that's one victory, but there's a lot of threats out there.
And Delaney, thanks so much for joining us here in Studio. Let me now bring in someone who knows all about the threats of all kinds, former CIA director John Brennan. He's also an NBC News senior national security and intelligence analyst. John, thank you so much for joining us.
Now, let's start in the Middle East. We're starting to learn what the U.S. response may look like. So what does a strong U.S.
response look like, and what would your recommendation be in this situation? Well, I think it has to be focused on all of those Iranian proxies that have engaged in attacks against U.S. forces in the area. And I think primarily it will be in Yemen, in Syria, and Iraq.
That's on, has embedded itself with a lot of these proxy groups, providing them training, weaponry, funding, and also logistics that allow them to carry out these attacks. So I think this will be forceful. I think it will be multi-dimensional. It could be a financial side of this as well, additional sanctions.
There could be some cyber actions as well to try to disrupt some of their command control systems. And I do think there'll be a military component directed against running proxies in those three countries. And John, I want to read some of what the CIA director Bill Burns wrote in a column yesterday. He wrote, quote, I have spent much of the last four decades working in and on the Middle East.
And I have rarely seen it more tangled or explosive. The Iranian regime, he says, has been emboldened by the crisis and seems ready to fight to its last regional proxy. Do you agree with his assessment? Yes.
Well, I worked very closely with Bill over the last four decades on the Middle East. And I would agree with him that there is a very active Iranian effort to try to disrupt U.S. activities in the region, try to push U.S. forces out.
It has worked very closely with a lot of these militia groups, both Sunni and Shia. The Sunni groups like Hamas, but also the Shia groups like Hezbollah in Iraq and Syria and the Houthis in Yemen. And they are very active and clearly, in light of what's happened in Gaza and the ongoing conflict there, they're trying to seize upon that to inflame tensions. And to basically broaden out the conflict right now, because they do believe that the U.S.
presence in the region in the Middle East is antithetical to their interests. And John, the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard warned that no threat by the U.S. will be left unanswered. What do you make of that statement?
Is it just posturing at this point? No, they're probably going to look at various ways to lash out at the United States. The Quds Force, which is a part of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, is the element that works very closely with these various extremist demolition groups. And I wouldn't be surprised if after these strikes, the Iranians are going to try to take actions to push back against the United States, carry out additional attacks.
The Iranians have a lot of influence over these groups, but sometimes these groups also will act rather independently of Iran. So I do not believe that we've seen an end to these Iranian-supported proxy attacks. And let's start with this new warning by Director Ray that we were just talking about with Ken. He said, if and when the time comes, China is prepared to wreak havoc.
Now, how soon could that time be? And how advanced are China's capabilities? The Chinese are working on this for the past couple of decades. They have a very large and sophisticated cyber effort.
The tries to get better understanding of what our critical infrastructure looks like. They tried to get into these systems, and as Ken was saying, a lot of these systems do not have the types of defenses. Against the more sophisticated updated attacks, the malware that the Chinese can employ. So having a presence in our critical infrastructure gives them the ability at some point to take action to disrupt or disable that critical infrastructure.
So it's ongoing, and I know the FBI is working very closely with DHS, the White House, and others to identify these Chinese actions, but also take actions to be able to disrupt and get them out of our systems. And of course, President Biden has been trying to improve the U.S. relationship with China. Based on what you're seeing now, are tensions between Washington and Beijing using it?
Well, we do have some signs that there are areas of cooperation, such as Sentinel. The Chinese and the United States, I think, recognize that there are areas of common interest. But from the standpoint of cyber, there are just a lot of Chinese companies. Some of them are controlled wholly by the Chinese government, others operate independent of or support of the Chinese government.
And they see that there's a lot to be gained from having access to our digital environment here. In terms of intellectual property, we'll be able to steal that, be able to get national security secrets, and also be able to, again, put in place the capability that in the event that tensions increase, and there is some type of potential conflict between the United States and China, they have the ability to take actions on the cyber front that really could be very disruptive if not crippled some of our capabilities. And, John, we're obviously in an election year. We know China tried to influence the 2022 election.
What do you make of China's capability for that, and how likely is it that China is willing to interfere in this upcoming election? Well, President Xi supposedly told President Biden that China was not going to interfere in the 2024 election. The Chinese have a lot of capability in that digital environment. They could engage in information operations as a way to favor some of the candidates, and not just in terms of the presidential election, but also the congressional election.
They're very close observers of the U.S. political scene. And although President Xi may give the direction to Chinese security intelligence agencies not to carry out very latent actions to interfere in the election, I could still see a lot of Chinese actors that have an interest in the outcome of our elections in November, getting involved in a way with other information operations or other types of digital attacks that really could be very disruptive. Former CIA Director John Brennan, thank you so much for joining us here on Meet the Press Now.
And coming up, border battle will go inside the debate, the dysfunction, and a new effort by Democratic governors to pressure the White House in Washington to act. Colorado Governor Jared Polis will be here. But first, abuse exploitation in kids on social media, how some of the top leaders in tech defended their platforms, while being grilled on a lack of adequate protections for children online. That's next.
You're watching Meet the Press Now. You're here in this hearing because it's a collective. Your platforms really suck at policing themselves. Mr.
Zuckerberg, you and the companies before us, I know you don't mean it to be so, but you have blood on your hands. You have a product. You have a product that's killing people. And welcome back.
You just heard some of the bipartisan condemnation from senators today as the CEOs of five major social media companies before the Judiciary Committee in a dramatic and emotional hearing. The CEOs of meta, which on Facebook and Instagram, as well as the CEOs of TikTok, Snap, X, formerly Twitter, and Discord were grilled by lawmakers about child safety on their platforms. The pressure coming not just from lawmakers in the room, but from the audience as well, with parents of children victimized by social media in attendance. It all led to this dramatic moment where meta CEO Marcus Uckerberg was pushed to apologize to those parents directly.
Have you apologized to the victims? I... Would you like to do so now? Well, they're here.
You're on national television. Would you like now to apologize to the victims who have been harmed by your product, showing the pictures? Would you like to apologize for what you've done to these good people? I...
I... I... I... I, I...
I... I... I... I...
I... I... I... I...
I'm always... I think your... your families have... have suffered, and this is why we invested so much in our own community, doing this really efforts, to make sure that...
No one has to agree to pick your families to pick up some pet songs. Quite a moment there, and joining me now from Capitol Hill, Tennessee, Sahil Kapoor, Sahil, it was certainly a combative hearing, but how much substance that senators get to with the tech CEOs? Or was it all just theater? is all just there.
Well, a lot of it was theater game. The part that isn't theater remains to be seen, and that's what, you know, the question of what Congress is actually going to do about it. The text he owes certainly faced a chilly reception from the senators on a cause that unifies people, how to protect children from exploitation and abuse online. I spoke to Senator Dick Durbin, the chairman of the committee during one of the breaks in that hearing.
He served in Congress for decades, and he said it's one of the most overwhelming hearings he's ever attended at the room was packed with families showing pictures of children who had been exploited. One of the senators who questioned members was Richard Blumenthal, the Democrat from Connecticut, demanded to know whether the CEO's present before him supported his bill, the Kids Online Safety Act. Let's play some of that exchange. There are parts of the act that we think are great.
No, it's the yes or no question. I'm going to be running out of time, so I'm assuming the answer is no if you can't answer yes. Mr. Teagle.
Senator, we strongly support the Kids Online Safety Act, and we've already implemented many of its core provisions. In its present form, do you support it? Yes or no? We are aware that some groups have some concerns.
It's important not to understand how it's added. I'm not. Mr. Teagle.
Senator, we support Coase and will continue to make sure that it accelerates and continues to offer community for teens that are seeking that voice. Mr. Zuckberg, do you support the Kids Online Safety Act? Senator, you support the Kids Online Safety Act?
Yes. I'm just asking whether you support it or not. These are nuanced things. That's not how very tough.
Remember, Gabe, it's not up to those CEOs whether to pass those pieces of legislation. They don't get a vote in this. It's up to Congress to decide whether or not to set these rules. But what you saw from Blumenthal is something members of Congress tend to do as a publicity move to draw attention to their particular pieces of legislation.
I spoke to Blumenthal during that hearing when he walked out away from a break. He said his big takeaway was the lack of trust here. That Congress simply cannot trust the CEOs to police themselves and protect children. It's really tough to get a yes or no answer there, but how likely really is it that any of these bills are going to get passed?
Well, first, let's stick through the bills that are on the table here. I believe we have a graphic that shows them. There's the Kids Online Safety Act, which we mentioned that's authored in part by Richard Blumenthal that would create liability for recommending or promoting content that's from mental to minors. There's the Platform Accountability and Transparency Act, which would set standards for disclosure and transparency.
There's the Shield Act, which would criminalize sending non-consensual images. The Stop CSAM Act that stands for Child Sexual Abuse Material. The Earn It Act, which stands for Eliminating Abusive and Rampant Neglect. And the Protect Safe Childhood Act, which would bolster prosecution of child exploitation crimes.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse there saying to the CEOs, quote, your platforms really suck at policing themselves, unquote. Again, every time they do this, every time they do this ritual of hauling these CEOs and kind of confronting them and creating these viral moments, it puts pressure on Congress to actually act. Blumenthal also told me that he does feel confident that his bill will get to the 60 votes. It needs to pass the Senate after they make some tweaks.
It's all still a work in progress. Senator Durbin also told me he's optimistic that some of these bills that have passed through judiciary committee can get votes on the floor of the Senate. Okay. Sahal Kapoor, Live for us in Capitol Hill, Sahal, thank you so much.
And turning out to another big issue on the Hill right now, the Board, with any potential deal on board or security, mired in election year politics right now, the brunt of dealing with the influx of migrants is largely fallen to state governments. And while the Biden administration faces off with Republican-led states like Texas over who police is the southern border and how, the president is also facing renewed pressure from Democratic governors. Recently, nine of them representing more than 100 million Americans sound of the alarm, telling the White House and Congress that they urgently need more money and more resources, writing, quote, the number of migrants arriving in states and cities seeking emergency shelter continues to increase at a record pace. States and cities have spent billions to address inaction by Congress and match these challenges with solutions for our state and local economies.
And joining me now is one of the governors who signed that letter, Colorado Democratic governor, Jared Polis. Governor, thank you so much for joining us. Hear me, the president now. My pleasure to be with you, Gabe.
Governor, I want to start. You and other governors sent that letter to the president requesting action on the border. Have you heard back yet? Well, I think what we hope is to hear back indeed rather than word and president Biden has been very supportive and encouraging of a real tough border security package that the Senate is working on.
It's always been elusive to find that compromise between Democrats and Republicans to strengthen our border. And now that we've never been before, absent congressional action is going to continue to be chaos at our southern border. And that's why I really think it's important to call upon Congress and the president to secure the border, hire the border patrol, do the high-tech screening and fencing that they need, and finally, establish security, not only to prevent human trafficking, but also the illegal flow of fentanyl, gun trafficking, all the other issues that Colorado is in the border state, but we still see the impact of two states or the border. And governor, something I found interesting.
Only on that letter, the only Democratic governors, there are no Republicans on that letter, do they not agree with you? I hope they do. You know, there's currently a bit of a standoff, as you know, with Texas and US border patrol. I think it's going to sit down and work together.
I think it's great if Texas, if Arizona, California, want to help secure the border, do it a coordinated way with a vast federal resources we have. But the real answer is, of course, is to have the federal resources to do it. This is a multi-thousand-mile border. It ain't easier.
It would have been done already. And I think we have a unique opportunity with President Biden, Republicans and Democrats and Congress to say, this is enough is enough. Let's do this. And let's actually make sure that we can protect Americans from this inflow, fentanyl, illegal gun running, and also curb the flow of illegal immigrants.
And governor, speaking of President Biden's authority on this issue, Republicans on the Hill, you know, they say that there is more. The president can do unilaterally right now. Do you agree with that? Well, I hope that the president is looking at anything he can do.
But as I recently said, I mean, if the border could be secured by a president alone, why on earth didn't President Trump secure it? He didn't. Because the truth is, it takes resources. Where do resources come from?
Congress. The president can't just unilaterally spend money and make the investment in hiring more border security and border patrol agents, which is absolutely needed. It needs to be appropriated by Congress to do that. That's just the system we have.
No president, President Biden, President Trump can do it alone. It absolutely takes congressional actions to secure us on the border and reform the asylum process to reduce the backlog and ensure that frivolous claims are dismissed earlier in the process. Governor, can the president win reelection if things at the border don't change? Well, again, I think the president's win everything he can with his southern border.
Overall, the economy is strong. I think that Americans are focused on costs and public safety. I think curbing inflation, reducing costs and making sure that Americans are safer, a big part of what we need to do. We've already seen a decline in the influx to Colorado from the southern border.
I certainly hope that trend continues. But a big part of that is going to be getting the border security in place to make sure that we don't face this kind of situation again in the future. Governor, with other respect, I've reported on the border quite a bit. And over the past year, it started with people like Eric Adams in New York and then Governor Pritzker in Illinois and others throughout the country, Democrats that have become increasingly frustrated with the White House.
And we put that question to the White House. They say they have given these cities and states a lot. Has it been enough? Well, you know, again, I think what our call is is on Congress to act.
I mean, if there's things the president can do with the executive authority, you should be doing it. Congress is not acting. Is there more the White House can do? Have they given you enough money?
Anything that they can legally give us, I hope they do. As you know, and I know this is an executive of a state, money has to be appropriated by Congress. The president, a governor, catches conjure of money. Of course, they've been able to help reimburse Colorado, the city of Denver for some of the costs.
But, you know, again, it'll take Congress to appropriate more if they expect states to deal with this. The right answer is just securing our border. And that's really what this discussion needs to be focused on. I certainly hope President Biden is doing everything he can with his executive authority.
But at the end of the day, does it take more border patrol agents? It does. And where does that come from? It comes from Congress.
And Governor, what does the state doing to help Denver? I believe the city is now saying it will spend 10% of its budget. Is shutting down the city to migrants on the table here? Well, again, what Colorado is doing is we've offered help with logistics and transportation.
Many of the folks arriving in Colorado, it's simply the road up from El Paso or moving on to other locations in the East Coast, the West Coast, some are here for days, some are here for weeks. So we're going to help everybody reach their final destination as quickly and easily as possible. And of course, continue to call on the failure of the federal government and the states to secure the southern border and make sure that we can stop this going forward. And Governor, this was very controversial in New York when the number of migrants started rising there.
But would you consider busting migrants to other parts of the state if Denver continues to be overwhelmed? Well, Denver is currently the only city in Colorado that's doing this and providing services for the immigrants. If other cities in other across the country, across the state are involved with that, they're able to do that. There's no other prevents them from doing that.
But the state fundamentally doesn't control what cities do. We simply say, look, we're here to help with the justice with transportation. We've run a few legal clinics to help make sure people can get their asylum claims in. But mostly we try to help people get to their final destinations where those are.
Colorado Governor Jared Poulis, thank you so much for joining us here. I'm the press now. We really appreciate your time. And we're going to talk more about the DC dysfunction fueling the border battle with Chuck Todd after the break.
Plus Nikki Haley's rough road, the last Republican remaining taking on Trump, may not win a single delegate in the next two contests. How long can she hold on? You're watching. Meet the press now.
Welcome back. Today was a busy day on Capitol Hill when it comes to the border. Over in the Senate, a top Republican negotiator says they are, quote, whisper close. They're releasing the text of a bipartisan border deal, though it was not expected today.
But the bipartisan bill still appears to have no path in the House. Speaker Mike Johnson has said it would be dead on arrival. And in his first floor speech, his speaker, Johnson again claimed President Biden could act without Congress. The president can put a stop to this.
President Biden and Secretary of America have designed this catastrophe. And now, rather than accept any accountability or responsibility for what they've clearly done, President Biden wants to somehow try to shift the blame to Congress or his administration's catastrophe by design. It's absolutely laughable. No one's falling for this.
And joining me now for more on the politics of the border battle is NBC's chief political analyst, Chuck Todd. Chuck, it is so glad to have you here. Thank you, sir. You're really appreciate it.
So you're looking at this border battle in Congress. Who's going to blink here? Oh, I think it's, I don't know, actually. I think Biden is, it's pretty clear what he's up to.
He's saying yes to anything because he wants the Ukraine. Whatever it takes to get Ukraine aid and the White House believes and so far I've never seen it. There isn't a swing voter in America that is voting on immigration issue. It doesn't mean swing voters are happy with the immigration issue.
That's not a voting issue for them. It's a voting issue for the base of the Republican party. It is a get up vote issue for the Trump wing in particular. So there is real incentive for Republicans and why I think all of a sudden the House guys in particular are backing off because they can't win without Trump.
The House map has always been better when Trump's not a ballot than when he's not on the ballot and immigration is the key to this. So it's perfectly rational politically how these guys are reacting. But I actually think they're all overthinking it. Biden ought to be carefully if he's handed the keys and suddenly given more accesent.
Because what if he gets the aid and the border is still a mess? Which is highly likely. Right. We're sitting in October and there's some big mess at the border and they're like, well, then it becomes a competency question.
But if Republicans deny Biden this bill. They get to run. Then they get to hand by. Democrats get to run on the Republican obstruction.
That is something you've said a lot, Chuck. It interests politically for both parties but not in the interest of the country. And if you want to hand by the exact same messaging tool that reelected Barack Obama who got to run against an obstructionist Republican House and Bill Clinton who got to run against an obstructionist Republican House, you are now the House Republicans are like, here you go. And it is really what's laughable to me about what Speaker Johnson said.
I've never heard a member of Congress beg for them to, for a president to usurp their authority. You know, these same members of Congress are angry that he's bombing Houthis right now. Whoa, you need to come to us. Here he's asking you for the, for the, for, you know, if they guess what the immigration of the border is one of these things that's sort of like, I'm not doing it.
You do it. Right. Congress like we don't want to put our names on this policy. You do it.
And you have a great piece out on NBC News.com. I'm going to throw some of it on the screen. This piece of analysis and you say that a large chunk of voters who say the border is the top issue would already be voting Republican anyway. See, 2018.
That does not mean the issue isn't a national concern, but is it such a concern for swing voters that it will trump their other concerns about issues including democracy or abortion. Oh, this is the gamble the Biden White House has made. This is their research issue on this. Look, every piece of research I've looked at, which is the person that says immigration is our number one issue is already a Trump voter.
They're already there. There isn't an undecided voter where immigration is that issue. And more importantly, there isn't a big chunk of voters on the left. Progressives may not like the policies, but they're not walking away from him over this.
So they didn't walk away from Obama over this. That's right. Now, as you pointed out in the piece, Israel, Gaza, and ceasefire a little bit different. I think that you're headed to Michigan.
You've been on the ground there. All they need to have is bad turnout in one demographic group in one state and it could cause them to president. And then you have in this piece, you talk about Greg Abbott and his decision to bust migrants to other parts of the country saying that, oh, if these democratic mayors and governors elsewhere in the country deal with this influx like Texas has been dealing with for quite some time, they'll think differently. You call this decision potentially shrewd, but cynical.
Do you think he was right to do this? No, I don't think this is the right way to handle this. You know, in a functioning democracy, the governor of Texas sits down with the president of the United States and says, buddy, I am inundated here. We've got to figure this out.
What can we do? Greg Abbott has not, Greg Abbott, Dan Patrick, all those guys, they seem to be more interested in being able to, you know, pump their chest or whatever and have this fight over federal supremacy rather than deal with it. But he wanted more resources, getting democratic mayors and governors like the one you just interviewed in Colorado to complain to the White House, did get the White House, gives them the political cover with the left to actually then be for more tougher standards. So in an odd way, Abbott has helped get Biden to stand for tougher policies at the border.
I don't say it's the right way to do it in a functioning democracy, but yes, I think he deserves credit and I put that in the air quotes. Chuck Todd, our chief political analyst. Thank you so much for joining us here and giving us your insight. We really appreciate it.
And still had new polls and a new battle between President Biden and Republican frontman Donald Trump as they both make a big push for a big union endorsement. The panel is next. You're watching. Meet the press now.
And welcome back. Turning to the 2024 Republican primary race, Trump's top campaign advisers sent out a memo this week arguing that Nikki Haley does not have a viable path for the GOP presidential nomination. Haley's campaign responded with a mean girl's name. The reality is that the delegate math is not working in her favor though.
And the next two major contests are the Nevada caucuses where Haley is not on the ballot in the South Carolina primary where Haley is downplaying expectations. Both those races assign their delegates in some sort of winner take all fashion, meaning that it's possible that Haley gets zero delegates from the next two big races. Joining me now on set for the panel is Molly Ball, senior political correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, senior advisor to Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders. Oh, sorry.
I'm fine. Shakir, senior advisor to Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders and Florida Republican Congressman Carlos Kubello. He's also, of course, an enemy senior political analyst. Molly Haley says she is committed to staying in his race.
What is her path forward? Well, look, the Trump campaign is right on the math, right? The numbers are what they are, and it is very difficult to see where Nikki Haley is suddenly going to get a bunch of delegates and pull ahead. She has yet to win a primary.
It's hard to win without winning, especially in these winner take all contests. However, the reason they're putting these memos out and trying to influence the debate is because primaries really are not so much about delegate math, especially at this early stage. They're about momentum and they're about the narrative. And so you wouldn't have Donald Trump's campaign putting out these memos and trying to change that narrative and trying to portray him as inevitable if they weren't concerned about that.
And that is why you had, you know, Haley debt clearly, I was with her in New Hampshire and I a little bit in Iowa. She clearly has a new spring in her step now that she has gotten more confrontational with Trump. Her donors haven't given up on her. So is there an obvious path that you can draw, you know, lines on the chalkboard where she's going to rack up those delegates?
Not at this point, but things can change fast. And Carlos, we were mentioning in the introduction there. There's a possibility that Haley doesn't get any delegates at all in the next two contests. What is that to the momentum that Molly was talking about?
Well, it'll be bad for her and she'll probably start losing some of that fund or support. But what really bothers Donald Trump gave is that even if she doesn't get any delegates, you know, the numbers are going to be up there for everyone to see 20, 25, maybe 30, 35% of Republican voters are going to choose Nikki Haley. It's going to hurt Donald Trump's argument that the Republican party is fully united behind them. By the way, these are people who they might vote for another candidate like Haley and primers and then not show up in November because they may not like Donald Trump.
They may not be enthusiastic about Donald Trump. So this really hurts Trump's narrative that his candidacy is inevitable, that he's a shoe and to beat Joe Biden, that all Republicans are behind him. Fisen, Haley is making the argument that this is a fight for freedom. Is that a workable argument and a Republican primary?
Do you think it'll be effective? Well, it's a workable argument for Joe Biden who will make a base basically the same argument in the general election. So I'm sure from Biden's supporter, I'm eager for Haley to stay in this race as long as possible. Trump's reaction to her doesn't make zero strategic sense.
Why are you giving her oxygen? Why are you even suggesting that you have a serious primary still going on when it should be over for them? But the fact that you can't control themselves tells you a lot of things that we probably already knew about Donald Trump. Good luck to him.
But this is really helpful to them, for example. And Molly speaking about Donald Trump, the New York Times now reporting that his main super pack spent more than $50 million on legal bills in the last year alone. We've never seen anything like that before. What does that mean for him going forward?
And what does it mean for his donors if they think that their money is going to be going for this long list of legal fights? I mean, look, on the one hand, he does have a seemingly inexhaustible supply of small dollar money, but it has been declining. And this super pack was outraged in the last quarter. And so, you know, donors don't necessarily love the idea that they're just giving money to Donald Trump's lawyers.
And those bills are certainly going to keep coming. I mean, talk about a fight for freedom. That's what Donald Trump is going to be in with these court cases throughout the next year. And another argument that Haley's been making is that chaos follows Donald Trump that he brings chaos to everything, you know, to everywhere he goes.
Does that, does the next few months back up that argument and does the fact that he's paying all this money in legal bills back up that argument, doesn't matter? Well, that's a great point, Gabe. And I think it's another reason why the Trump team wants Haley out, because this is politics and anything can happen in politics. And Donald Trump is surrounded by chaos and controversy and scandal.
So the fact that there's someone else in the race who could take advantage of maybe voters getting sick and tired of Trump spending millions of dollars of their contributions on his legal defense or maybe Trump's saying something even more outrageous than a lot of the things we've heard him say over the years. Nicky Haley's a big threat, especially to a candidate that has so many structural vulnerabilities. You said of you, of course, support Joe Biden. And something that we keep seeing, you know, the reason poll is coming out, you know, Biden neck and neck with Donald Trump or within the margin of airing slightly down from the Biden campaign.
They keep saying that, well, that's because a lot of people haven't tuned in that more people would tune in later this year that, you know, some voters aren't paying attention at this point. And the hope is that the economy improves. It may have already started improving. But why do you think that so far, you know, that just hasn't caught on?
Do you think the economic message, which is so important to so many voters, will that take a turn in the coming months? Do you think he needs a foil? Okay. He hasn't had that foil for the better part of two or three years.
He's always the strongest when he gets to say, here's what Donald Trump's offering. You take the team's just for instance, they're meeting with Trump. They're going to meet with Biden. He's going to be able to make an argument that, hey, I'm taking on Amazon.
I've restored your pensions. I was with you on the UPS contract. What this guy do for you works better when he's got a foil. And look, Trump met with the teamsters today.
It's not expected that he gets the teamsters endorsement, but his campaign is looking at it like, look, this is a victory that we even met with them in the first place. He doesn't need to dominate the union vote. But if he picks off some of those union voters, what does that do to him in battlegrounds like Michigan? It's a serious concern.
But I also think that if they're giving Joe Biden the opportunity to earn higher percentage of support, if you look at the way the UAW played out over the past two months, I think that the UAW's going to be a little bit more than the UAW ranked by virtue of the UAW dragging him into that fight, him going to the picket line, showing that I've got your back and the way the Donald Trump doesn't. I think the teamsters are going to afford him the same opportunity. But if you remember that fight, and I was there when he went to the picket line, at the beginning, the White House is being a little careful there and didn't want to get too involved in those negotiations. And my point being that the unions brought him to a stronger position politically.
I think that's going to happen here again, because Trump will not have the record to stack up. He's going to say nice things about taking on Amazon, but he will not have the record to stack up against Biden. And so if you're all they're doing is elevating that discourse for union members to tune in and make a judgment, I think it works the mindset. And Molly to that point that we're so far off on the election, Biden is now up six points in a new national Quinnipiac poll.
And that does serve as a reminder that we're really far out. What do you make of a poll like this? It's early. And this is going to be a very, very, very, very long campaign and people are going to be so sick of it if they aren't already the fact that it's a rerun of the last campaign.
We already have a lot of evidence that nobody is looking forward to this and voters really wish they had other choices. Look, Biden is very vulnerable. We don't know how vulnerable. We don't even know what the issue set is going to be six, eight, nine months from now.
It's going to be a very different conversation after all of that ground is covered. But Biden is very vulnerable. And the concern that I hear from a lot of Democrats who are not very confident in his campaign and their strategy is that there's just too much sitting on their hands and hoping and waiting for the narrative to turn in their favor. And very, very, very quickly.
The topic that's getting a lot of attention we're talking about before the break, it just shows how ridiculous this moment is. The story about MAGA extremists or conspiracy theorists getting behind this idea that there's some sort of Taylor Swift conspiracy to get President Biden to like the Carlos Money Megadas. Yeah, Taylor Swift owns my home. I have a 14 and 11 year old girl.
So I talk about Taylor Swift a lot. But look, it just kind of highlights the truth crisis in our country and how some of these ideas as absurd as they may sound really catch fire and people start organizing around them. It's kind of funny, but it's also kind of sad. Quite a moment, we're in especially with so many conflicts around the world and serious topics too.
Well, I'm a Denver Broncos fan. So I finally believe anytime the Chiefs win something that's a great. I also have a 10 year old daughter who would vote for whoever Taylor Swift told her to. So I can understand why people are afraid of it.
The fix must be in. Thank you all so much, Molly, Vice Shakir and Carlos Gabello. Thank you so much for joining me here on the panel and coming up the push for the US to send more aid to Taiwan. I mean, growing tensions between China and the US.
We'll talk to Congressman Amy Berra about his trip to Taipei and the challenges ahead. You're watching me to press now. Welcome back. We've been talking about the impasse on Capitol Hill when it comes to the border.
But that impasse isn't just about the border. For Israel, Taiwan and Ukraine are tied to the border negotiations. And this is a particularly urgent moment. The NATO Secretary warned this week that Russia's invasion of Ukraine could have far-reaching consequences for global security as China vows reunification with Taiwan.
Security is not regional. Security is global. What happens in Europe? What happens in Asia?
What happens in Asia? What matters for Europe? And I'm joined now by Congressman Ami Berra, Democrat from California and the co-chair of the congressional Taiwan caucus. Congressman, thank you so much for joining us here.
And you traveled to Taiwan earlier this month. What did officials there say they needed most from the US? First off, we traveled there to congratulate them on a successful democratic election. Really what they need is the support of the United States Congress Administration and we went there to reiterate our strong support.
The Taiwan caucus is the largest bipartisan caucus in the United States Congress, so really to express that support. We also need the defensive weaponry to protect their own island, to protect their own sovereignty. And again, this is not about changing the status quo. It's about maintaining the status quo in peace and prosperity across the right.
And Congressman, I'm really so glad we have you on because, you know, aid to Taiwan is really been overshadowed in the supplemental funding request with funding for Israel, funding for Ukraine and of course the border. So if Congress cannot agree to funding for those other things, what gives you any hope that Taiwan will be any different? Well, I think we've got to do all three because they're all three interrelated. You can guarantee that Beijing is watching our response to Vladimir Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine.
I think they were startled with how quickly we came together, put together a coalition in Europe and House that vast. We've been helping and supporting the people of Ukraine, fight for their own independence, their own sovereignty. That gives Beijing pause if they're thinking about doing anything across the street. Now, if we were not to continue funding Ukraine, I think that would be a bad signal to Beijing.
And Congressman, I take your point that you believe that Congress should do all three, but should aid to Taiwan be a standalone bill? Well, at the end of the day, we will in the budgetary process provide a lot of funding to Taiwan through the foreign-offs appropriation bill and so forth. But I think we ought to do the supplemental with all three pieces because AG Ukraine is incredibly important. Aid to Taiwan is incredibly important.
And we want to maintain the Middle East, and we don't want this to escalate into a more regional war. So that aid's important as well. And Congressman, I want to turn now to that border deal. Is there anything short of HR2 that you think your Republican colleagues would actually support?
You know, I would hope so. And I would hope that a lot of us as Democrats are going to take some heat from some of our base voters as well. But we do have a problem on the southern border. We've got to address that.
We'll only get worse with climate change without migration. So let's come up with a long-term strategy. Let's not make this about the next election or politics. Let's make this about sound policy.
And that means compromise. And Congressman, can President Biden win in November if the situation at the border remains the same? You know, I think he can win in November, but I think President Biden has been forth right saying, hey, Congress, work with me so we can strengthen our border and protect our borders because it is increasingly a challenge and a lot of democratic cities. Congressman, I'm ebera.
Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And I know you have to go vote. So we'll let you go do that.
Thank you so much for being with us here at this hour. NBC News Now coverage continues with Halle Jackson right now.