Foreign. Welcome to the Press Now I'm Kristen Welker in Washington. We begin with breaking news out of Perry, Iowa where law enforcement officials and the governor are holding a press conference right now after a shooter open fire at a high school earlier this morning. Injury, at least two students and the school administrator.
Let's listen to them say save lives. The response was tremendous and we're extremely grateful. The full resources of the state government will be available to assist in response and of course, the community's recovery from this tragic event. The mental health region has social workers that are embedded in the school district and will provide counseling services for the students, the families and the staff.
As you all know, this is an ongoing investigation, so law enforcement will review only what they can at this time and they will provide additional information as it becomes available. And so with that, I'd like to turn it over to Chief. Thank you. Chief Eric Vaughn from the Perry Police Department.
I want to thank the quick actions of the Dallas county dispatchers who handled and dispatched the calls regarding this traffic tragic event this morning. I also want to recognize the initial officers from Perry and Dallas County Sheriff's Office and their actions on scene. Thank you to the massive response from agencies throughout the area, including EMS for their assistance today. It's truly amazing to see first responders work together in these crisis situations.
And I cannot forget to recognize the teachers, faculty and students involved who acted bravely and heroically in this tragic situation. Thank you to the community, support we have seen and we will continue to need in the future all of our condolences to the victims and their families. They need your thoughts and prayers as well as time and space to process and to grieve. This community has been through tough times before and have rallied together.
I'm sure this time will be no different. Thank you. My name is Mitch Mortbett. I'm assistant director with the Iowa Division criminal investigation.
At 7:37am Excuse me. On January 4, 2024, the Perry Police Department responded to an active shooter event at Perry High School. Meanwhile, Dallas County Communications was also receiving multiple 911 calls of an active shooter at the high school. Perry police officers responded within minutes.
They immediately made entry and witnessed students and faculty either sheltering in place or running from the school. Once inside, they located multiple individuals with gunshot wounds. Officers immediately attempted to locate the source of the threat and quickly found what appeared to be the shooter with a self inflicted gunshot wound. As additional officers responded, a systematic approach search of the school took place.
Officers located. During the search of the school, an improvised Explosive device. The state fire marshal and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms rendered the device safe. Numerous officers from multiple agencies were able to secure the school and verify no additional threats.
At the same time, first responders were rendering aid to the victims who were later transported to area hospitals. The shooter has been identified as 17 year old Dylan Butler, a student at Perry High School. Butler was armed with a pump action shotgun and a small caliber handgun. Butler also made a number of social media posts in and around the time of the shooting.
Law enforcement is working to secure those pieces of evidence. All evidence thus far suggests that Butler acted alone. There are six victims, one of them who is deceased. That individual was a sixth grade student at Perry Middle School.
The other five are being treated at area hospitals. Four of the surviving student. Four of the victim surviving victims are students and a fifth is a school administrator. The law enforcement response was swift and immediate.
Roughly 150 officers from local, state and federal agencies responded within the hour. The investigation in today's tragedy is ongoing. The Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation is serving as a lead investigative agency with assistance from the Perry Police Department, Dallas County Sheriff's Office, the FBI, the ATF and the Dallas County Attorney's Office. At this time we will take a few questions.
Mitchell Register. I was told that the father of suit was shot, that his son witness Mr. Van Barber be shot. Is he the administrator?
What is his additional. The investigation is ongoing and we're not releasing any other names other than Dylan Butler's name at this time. Can you give us any indication as a motive for the second. Anything in the background of him is part of the investigation.
We're obviously going to take a deep dive into that. But there's nothing we can release at this time. At this time is my understanding as of about. I should say as of about an hour ago.
One was in critical condition but appeared not to be life threatening and the other four stable. Is any racial motivation in this Turing and are there any Latino victims? As far as the ethnicity of the victims, I'm not sure. And there's nothing indicated at this time that it had anything to do with race.
As far as motive, again, that's part of the background investigation and that's something we're continuing to look into. Sir, excuse me, there's a video online. Is there any, any credibility to this video? Maybe this man is the shooter.
I haven't seen the video and that I don't know at this time. But we are. Law enforcement is working to secure those pieces of evidence. As I mentioned in the statement so there's nothing more that we can comment on about that this is the first time or someone that will be involved in the street.
Do you have ideas to pat this aspect? It all. It all happened in the Perry High School and it was before school started, so there were not many students and it's our understanding that there was a breakfast program going on. So there may have been students of different grades, if you will, in the school at that time.
But it all was contained in Perry High School, not many of the other buildings. That's still part of the investigation. We're trying to determine that. I'm sorry, one of you, not much about it other than it was pre rudimentary and it was rendered safe by like I said, the state fire marshal in the atf.
Can I ask a question to the governor given that the investigation is ongoing and this is a local and state matter. You know, however the eyes of the world are on highway over the next 11 days. How should the candidates running for president talk about what happens? Yeah, I'll let them decide how they're gonna talk about it.
We're gonna focus on the investigation and we're gonna focus on making sure that we provide the resources to the community, the teachers, the staff, those are involved, the families that we're providing the resources that they need during this difficult time. So that's what I'm going to be focused on. State Bible can be focused on and I don't want the candidates decide what they're going to focus on. We're gonna take no more questions at this time.
Thank you. I mean as it was commented on by the chief that and by the governor as well that you know, everybody reacted the way they should. And it's obvious to training first of all at the school level, you know, with faculty and students, everybody reacted absolutely appropriately the way they should as well as law enforcement as they were entering the building. Second, you have been listening to a press conference.
Law enforcement, the governor of Iowa there responding after a school shooting. There we are learning new details. According to law enforcement officials, there were six victims of that shooting including one sixth grade student who has died. Five people still in the hospital.
Four of them are students. One is a school administrator. Officials identifying the suspect as 17 year old Dylan Butler. They say he was a student at the school.
They also say that law enforcement officials found an IED on site at the school this morning. Once that shooting unfolded. They say the call started coming in at about 7.30am they say that that has now been rendered non threatening. They also say that the suspect has also passed away.
He killed himself apparently of a self inflicted gunshot wound. I want to bring in NBC's Ali Vitale, who's going to join us in just a moment. But I also want to bring an NBC News terrorism contributor and retired ATF special agent in charge, Jim Kavanaugh. Ali, I see you are now in front of the camera, so let me in fact go to you first.
You could hear the emotion in the voices of the law enforcement officials. Understandably, this is a school shooting that undoubtedly has devastated that community. What were your key takeaways from the press conference devastated the community? Kristen I have to tell you that as I've been here all day, everywhere that I go, we stopped for coffee, we stopped for lunch.
At various places throughout this community, we've seen members of the community, community checking in on each other, some bringing sandwiches by the high school, trying to support law enforcement who are still here working at the scene. Others you pass high school students, parents of high school students saying that they were just happy to see their friends, students faces alive and okay. That's really what's happening here around this community as everyone is grappling with the reality of this. I mean, four days into the new year, the first day that they've been back after winter break and classes hadn't even officially started yet.
Of course, we already knew that from this morning's press conference. It was clear that this was something that happened before the first bell even rang here at Perry High School. But we did learn some pretty devastating new pieces of information, especially the fact that not just the shooter is dead, but the fact that there is one other casualty here and that the victim is a sixth grader. It's really just so sobering to hear that as a detail.
Of course other people are injured. They did not expect those people to have life threatening injur. But it does underscore the fact that even though there is an eerie sense of calm returning to the scene here, this community is going to have so many pieces left to pick up emotionally as they support each other through this time. I think the other thing that we learned here in this press conference that we hadn't yet heard is the fact that there was an explosive device.
Law enforcement officials said that it was deemed safe, that it was pretty rudimentary. But that is something that was notable as well. It's a bit of slow trickle, frankly, for information here on the ground in Perry. I think law enforcement both trying to protect the victims and make sure that their families were spoken to before they Briefed media, but it has been a pretty slow stream of information, this latest press briefing giving us at least a better sense of what happened here today.
But certainly this is a community that is reeling and will be for some time. Ali, you made so many great points there and I think you're right. And you could feel the fact that this is a community that has been torn apart by this. Jim, let me bring you into this conversation.
A lot of questions to ask you. First, let's start with what we know about these kids who were the victims of the shooting. This sixth grader whose life was taken, the cruelty of this. Here we are again, just a few days into the new year, talking about yet another school shooting.
Jim? Yeah, it's horrible. A sixth grader, you just, you just gotta sit down and comprehend that. It just really, it just really shocked you.
I think you could see it on the chief's face when he was trying to get the briefing. This happened in high school. Kristen has been reported by Ali all day, but there was a gathering of students from other nearby the school of middle school. So that's probably why there's a sixth grader.
They have a large cafeteria there. So there was a mixture. And we have a shooter, killer, 17 years old, cannot legally buy a long gun, which is a pump shotgun. It's a long gun, cannot legally buy a handgun.
And he had. From a dealer and he had both. So he came in with two guns that, you know the question's gonna arise and I'm sure ATF and the detectives on the scene have already traced those guns. That's gonna be a key point.
A lot of the school shooters, when their students bring the guns from home. And you know, if we talk about how to reduce them, you know, if all the parents in all America would lock their guns up, we would have a lot less of this. But we can't seem to get that to happen. But nevertheless, the 17 year old goes in, he has a pump shotgun, which is a devastating weapon.
I mean, this is a police weapon I carried as a uniformed officer and an agent. And if it's used correctly against an adversary, it's devastating. So something happened here where we don't have more carnage when you have a weapon like that. And he also had a handgun and he had some rudiment IED improvised explosive device.
We don't know if that was on him or if he tossed it, but the state fire marshal and ATF rendered it safe. We also don't know if the administrator tried to stop him. Kristen, they haven't really given us those facts. So it's gonna be interesting.
Did he fire the shotgun from quite a long range? Like maybe we just went in the door? Of course, the pellets will scatter, and depending on the type of buckshot one would use is the size of the pellets in the gun. So that can vary, but the pellets scatter and they could hit multiple victims.
You know, we don't know. It doesn't sound like he got off multiple shots. It seemed like we have many more wounded, but it's hard to say. Everybody could have started running, you know, he then tosses a bomb.
You know, he needs about three hands to manipulate all the stuff he's doing. A bomb, the pump, shotgun and work at the pump and kill himself and, you know, maybe being charged by a teacher or something. So there's some facts that come out, but it's gonna get down to the basic things we see. A kid probably gets the guns from home and comes in and starts an attack.
Jim, you heard law enforcement say that they are still investigating the motive here at this point in time, they said they have no evidence that points them to believe that this was racially motivated. It was notable, though, that they talked about that ied, as Ali said, they described it as rudimentary. But still, what does that tell you about this shooter? That there was an IED found at the scene?
Does that give you any indication of the extent to which he may have had access to a range of weapons? Right, Chris? Well, he went into a little bit of, you know, 17 year old planning. He wasn't quite as sophisticated as the killers in Columbine, certainly, who were much more prepared.
But he did some planning, obviously, because he had this IED and a pump shotgun and a pistol. And so he's got this little strategy for himself to go in. He also goes in right at the start of school in the cafeteria, where he knows there's a crowd. He's clearly looking for the crowd.
And his motivation is open, you know, is it's probably not greed or escape. So we're looking at revenge, hate, power. It's within there, you know, was he mad at somebody? Was he humiliated?
The school? He's clearly suicidal. I think that's gonna play into it. So the psychological autopsy of him, which will be done by the agents and the detectives going back three to six months to see what's in his life, you know, what's been going on with him.
Was there problems at school, problems at home? Is he depressed? Has he made suicide remarks? They Leave a message.
All of these things will come into play. But again, we get back to rudimentary stuff for school security, telling all your parents, lock your guns up, lock your guns up. Don't think it won't happen to you to happen in your town. And lock the doors of the school.
Here's another case where a student is walking inside the door with a pump shotgun. That's a big weapon and you shouldn't be able to walk in the door with a punch shotgun. It's harder to hide. You should be stopped.
So basic stuff. I love Italian. Jim Kavanaugh, thank you both so much for joining us. A devastating day as we enter 2024.
And of course, all this against the backdrop of the Iowa caucus is just about 11 days away. The governor asked how the candidates should respond. She said that is up to them. We will continue to update you with any new developments as we get them.
Thank you both so much. We do want to turn out to the other top story of the day as the White House contends with the Israel Hamas war and the risk of escalating tensions with Iran, all as President Biden faces domestic pressure over his handling of the war. In a sign of renewed urgency facing the administration, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is set to leave today for his fourth trip to the region since the war began. Meanwhile, white national security officials are meeting to discuss a potential US Military response to Iranian backed attacks in the Red Sea.
Houthi militants have launched 25 attacks on commercial ships since mid November, including one today. The U.S. navy has repeatedly shot down drones and missiles and earlier this week some three Houthi boats in a dramatic confrontation killing crew members. So on the table, according to two current administration officials, U.S.
strikes on Houthi targets inside Yemen Yesterday the White House addressing rising tensions. The United States does not seek conflict with any nation or actor in the Middle east. Nor do we want to see the war between Israel and Hamas widen in the region. But neither will we shrink from the task of defending ourselves, our interests, our partners, or the free flow of international congress.
It wasn't the United States who decided to attack commercial shipping in the Red Sea. The Houthis did that. And who the Houthis backed by Iran. As I said before, Iran provided the missiles that Houthis are using.
We are simply a defensive posture to try to protect commercial shipping. Now this all comes into concerns of escalation with other Iranian proxies, including Hezbollah, as a US Envoy is headed to Lebanon to try to diffuse tensions after an apparent Israeli strike killed Hamas leader in Beirut. And then there's the fallout of a pair of deadly blasts in Iran yesterday that killed 85 and injured nearly 300. An ISIS civilian group is now claiming responsibility.
Iran has tried to blame Israel and the United States despite evidence suggesting neither country was involved. Meanwhile, the US Is pressuring Israel to do more to protect civilians inside Gaza. Today, the State Department saying Secretary Blinken is ready for difficult conversations with his counterparts. We don't expect every conversation on this trip to be easy.
There are obviously tough issues facing the region and difficult choices ahead. But the secretary believes it is the responsibility of the United States of America to lead diplomatic efforts to tackle those challenges head on. And he's prepared to do that in the days to come. We've been working very hard in this throughout the administration and quietly with allies and partners in the region and throughout the world on what the day after look like.
Those are going to be some of the toughest conversations, of course, but we're ready to go pursue them. Meanwhile, at home, the president faces pushback over his handling the conflict as the senior education official resigned and campaign staff were signed an anonymous letter protesting his approach to the war. Joining now is our team of reporters, Courtney Qbs at the Pentagon, Ali Rafazz at the White House, and Josh Lerman is on the ground in Tel Aviv and Court. I want to start with you and your exclusive reporting that the Biden administration is considering potential options for strikes against the Houthis.
What do you make of these discussions? What are the key takeaways in the fact that this has risen to the White House level? So it's indicative of the fact that this is getting the White House's attention. There's no question about that.
It's not just the threat to commercial shipping, which we have seen, as you mentioned, 25 taxi Houthis in the Red Sea in the Bala Mandab in just over a time. Now the US Set up this new maritime mission called Operation Prosperity Guardian. And we heard from the head of US Naval forces in the region out by Sam Brad Cooper earlier today. He said that since that task force was stood up on December 18, even though there have been 1500 merchant ships, commercial ships that have transmitted through that area, none of the Houthi attacks, including missiles and drones, have been successful.
None have actually struck any of those ships. But Kristen, the attacks have continued, including the one today that you mentioned which showed a new capability for the Houthis. They used drones, anti ship ballistic missiles and cruise missiles. But this was actually a sea based drone.
So an unmanned drone that went according to Rad Cooper, Adam Cooper, it left Yemen, it transited out 15 miles and then it detonated. Now, fortunately, it wasn't near any ships at the time. So it caused no damage, no injuries. But it does show the Houthis are continuing to try to conduct these attacks against ships.
That is why the White House is addressed this coming up with potential options that include not only what they are doing with this, this maritime task force, but also the potential for strikes in Saudi Yemen against Houthi targets. And what's really critical here, Kristen, is they're attempting to build more of a coalition. There's a coalition at sea, but they want a coalition that would be helpful, would be responsible for these sorts of attacks, partners like the British and the US Military essentially working together if in fact they decide to move forward with these offensive attacks against Luthien. It's really fantastic reporting, Courtney.
And you'll continue to track that angle. You're also watching the fallout after that strike in Baghdad. What more do you know about that? And Courtney, you and I have been talking about since the beginning of this war the concerns within the administration that there could be a wider war.
What is the concern level at this point, particularly in the wake of yet another attack in Baghdad? Yeah, and your lead and just showed all, I mean the fact that it is really there are it is all over the region right now, Baghdad. Really interesting though, Kristen, because this is one of the first times that we that we know of anywhere where the US has taken a strike like this against an Iranian backed militia member leader since, since exactly four years ago today. This was someone who the US Is saying he was a member of one of these Iranian backed troops.
But the Iraqis have come out very hard condemning this action, in fact saying that these are the kinds of actions that terrorists would take and really condemning the strike. They are saying that in fact this individual was a part of what they call the popular mobilization forces. So essentially under the arm, the broad umbrella of the Iraqi military. This is a very controversial strike here today, Kristen.
All right, Courtney, to be covering all of the angles for us. Courtney, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Ali, I want to turn to you over at the White House.
The Islamic State or isis, of course, as it is known, has now taken responsibility for that attack in Iran that we were just talking about Secretary Blinken heading to the region. What is very latest that you're hearing from your at the White House about the agenda of Secretary Blinken? What do they hope he can accomplish while he's there. Yeah, Christine.
Well, quickly on that claim of responsibility, we did see National Security Council spokesman Admiral John Kirby asked about this during today's press briefing. And he said the US doesn't have any reason to doubt this claim of responsibility by the Islamic State. But he said he couldn't give any more information on how powerful or how much of a threat the US Considers ISIS k in the Islamic State to be. KIRBY suggesting that U.S.
is still gathering more intelligence before offering a more comprehensive evaluation of that. But as far as Blinken's trip to this region, it comes as you heard Courtney lay out amid a series of escalating attacks, escalating worries that this conflict will widen even further. And the stakes have been raised because of those conflicts. And there's no shortage of focuses on Blinken's to do list when he goes to this region for roughly the next week.
First and foremost, the State Department says he will be focused on talking about really what the next phase of this war is going to be, how to get those hostages, those remaining hostages out of Gaza, how to ensure that the Palestinian people can return to their homes whenever this war does end, how can they ensure that humanitarian aid can continue to flow into Gaza. Notably, Kristen, the State Department, as you heard a spokesperson say in the intro earlier, one of the most difficult discussions that they are anticipating to have during this trip, both with his Israeli counterparts as well as other leaders in this region, is really what the plan will be for this day after scenario, who will govern Gaza when this war is over and how that will eventually work out. The State Department fully expecting that to be one of the most difficult discussion discussions. Rather, I think you're absolutely right.
It is a question that we continue to put to the administration and there's still no clear answer. Ali, Rafa, thank you. All of that great reporting. Josh Letterman, let me turn to you now in Tel Aviv.
Obviously, we were just discussing with Courtney and Ali the fact that there have been these other attacks. What is the feeling right now? How much concern is there inside Israel about a potential miscalculation, about an escalation of a wider war? Huge amount of concern right now.
Christian Herzl Halebi, the IDF chief of staff, says that they're an extremely high level of preparedness now for a potential additional front in this war on the northern border with Lebanon. They are alert for potential attacks into a lot in the southern tip of Israel from the Red Sea where the Houthis have been so active they are worried about Syria. We should also point out within the political spectrum here in Israel. There's a lot of speculation that the government here is kind of itching for a fight with Hezbollah.
That in fact, this decision to conduct this assassination of a senior Hamas leader in Beirut in the heart of Lebanon, a country where Hezbollah has a lot of influence as part of the government, was an effort by Israel to goad Hezbollah into a war because Israel feels that not only is Hamasa threat, but the Hezbollah is even a bigger threat. And that's part of this war. They need to eliminate that threat as well. So the only person who knows what is in Prime Minister Netanyahu's head is Prime Minister Netanyahu.
But certainly there is both concern here as well as a lot of consideration as to whether some of these other threats in the region might need to be dealt with by Israel as well, sooner rather than later. I think that's going to be one of the toughest questions they have to answer there. Josh, let me ask you also, there were two Americans who were able to make it out of Gaza. What's the very latest there?
We just have about a minute left here. So these were not hostages. These were people who were in the Gaza Strip when this war started. They were unable, apparently, to make it out through the Rafa Bord into Egypt, where many other American citizens were able to exit early in the war.
And now we know that the Israelis, with help from United States and from Egypt in terms of coordination, was able to safely get those two people out. They are relatives of a US Military member. Their family's obviously very happy. They are no longer in the Gaza Strip.
Iron are now much, much more safer place. There's no doubt about that. Obviously, hundreds more still trapped there. Josh Letterman, thank you so much.
Please continue to stay safe. We appreciate it. Good to see you as always. Coming up, it's closing time and one last call for Iowa.
We're live in Des Moines with an exclusive interview with Governor Ron DeSantis as he tries to avoid a knockout punch in the Hawkeye. Stay. Stay with us. You're watching MEET THE Press now.
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Presidential candidates barnstorming across Iowa just 11 days before the caucus. Reacting to the shooting this morning in Perry, my NBC colleague Dasha Burns and Des Moines registers Brienne Perpensteel were sitting down with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis as part of our Closing Argument series just following the shooting. DeSantis said he's been in contact with the state's governor, Kim Reynolds, and talked about his experience in Florida after the school shooting in Parkland. You can watch his full answer online.
Joshua Brielle and also asking the Santos about the trajectory of his campaign in Iowa that now finds itself fighting with me. Haley well behind Donald Trump in the polls. Take a listen to what he says. Such a message to Iowans who want to know that you have a path beyond Iowa because right now you've placed most of your resources into Iowa.
You've deemphasized, you know, airing TV ads in New Hampshire and South Carolina, for example. So what is your path beyond Iowa? Well, it's too early to do in South Carolina. TV ads.
Me doing well here will have more impact in South Carolina than if I was running ads. Now we are going to do stuff in New Hampshire, so stay tuned for that. I've already committed to doing debates there, so we're in it for the long haul. Don't worry about that.
We're in it for the long haul. Iowans have a chance to really have a miss one of the most meaningful votes they'll ever cast. And they have a choice. I mean, Donald Trump is running to address his issues.
Nikki Haley's running to address her donor's issues. I'm running to address your issues, your family's issues and this country's issues. And I'll be a president that's focused and disciplined on those issues. To Trump, what happened?
Well, no, I mean, first of all, Trump has always been leading in the race. I mean, he's the former president. He's one of the most famous people in the top. So we are the top.
They wouldn't be spending that money if we weren't at the top. I'm the only one that has a chance to beat Trump and win the general election. Nikki Haley can't get conservative voters. She's not playing to win.
In fact, she will not. Even so, most of her support are people that really don't like Donald Trump. She's a darling of the Never Trumpers. And yet when she's asked, okay, will you just categorically put this to bed and say you will not accept the vice presidential nomination?
She will not answer that question. Put all your eggs in the Iowa basket. Can you name another state that's not true. That's not true.
Can you name another state you could win? Yes. Yes. Wait till what happens when you get out of Iowa.
It's a free state of ice. We're going to be able to win a lot of states. We have a great organization in New Hampshire. We have a great organization in South Carolina.
You can have a lot of great organizations throughout Super Tuesday. So you're going to see this is very dynamic. You're see it's a long process and we're going to be able to win. So stay tuned.
But to say that we put all the eggs is not true. We have great organization field programs in the early states and we're going to compete in all of them. Would you consider joining forces with Nikki Haley? For what?
To defeat Donald Trump. Is it important enough to you to team up with Haley on a ticket to try to defeat him? I don't think that that would be something that'd be viable. I mean, you know her voters, she has a limited ceiling in the Republican Party.
And I think that a lot of my supporters here in Iowa, for example, they want to move on from Trump, but they had to choose between Trump or Haley. They probably would go with Trump because his policies are more in line with what they want. Speaking again, Vicki Haley, and you mentioned this in some of the earlier comments in a New Hampshire town hall last night. She said that, you know, Iowa starts it, but New Hampshire corrects it.
Do you think New Hampshire can correct what Iowa decides? One? I think it's a slap in the face to Iowans to say that they somehow need to be corrected. It's almost as if like she's acknowledging she's not going to here and so she's blaming the voters.
You know, that's unacceptable thing for Nikki Haley to be in a different state and trying to virtue signal in ways that are that diminish the voters of Iowa. I think it was honestly it was a mistake. But you know, sometimes these gas are what people really think. She's phony.
You know, she doesn't have core set of convictions. She's coming in here, she's trying to, trying to be relatable. But it doesn't get Iowa. And I think that's becoming more and more apparent.
Here's the thing, her you know, quote rise was media driven. There's a lot of grassroots energy. You can talk to all these activists here. They're not seeing it.
It's been media driven. But as Republicans, you know, you need to be able to handle this because you are going to be put through the wood chipper by the corporate press the minute you're going against a Democrat. And she's just not going to handle that. DeSantis was also pressed about his campaign against former President Trump and how the former president's legal jeopardy plays into his strategy strategy.
This week you've been asked by a couple of vile Republicans, why aren't you going after him more? This is somebody who has 91 criminal felony counts across four indictments. Isn't that something you can drilling a little harder? The problem with that is if you look at people like Alvin Bragg, who brought some of those, if you look at Jack Smith and the Garland Justice Department, those are just not good actors in my judgment.
And so I don't want to be in a situation where I'm aligning with people who are politicizing the law. Now, practically speaking, Republican voters just have to look at this and say, okay, do we want the election to be about the issues that the American people are facing? Do we want to be able to hold Biden and the Democrats feet to the fire for their failures and offer a way to a better future for Americans? Or do we want the election to be about Donald Trump's kind of practically speaking, you want, you don't want the election to be a referendum on Donald Trump and all these issues from the past that plays into the Democrats advantage.
And just think, I saw this firsthand when he first got elected. He inspires opposition on the political left unlike any other person. In fact, he does a better job inspiring Democrats to come out to vote than Democrat candidates are able to do. I think that's one of the reasons why Biden, the Democrats want to run against Trump, because they can play that playbook.
So just from strategic perspective, if I'm the nominee, we're focused on the issues that are important to the American people. We win. When that happens. Do you think Donald Trump will go to jail for his alleged crimes?
Oh, I don't know because I just, I don't know the details on this, but I don't think that'd be good for the country. But I also think that, you know, he's in some hostile environments. You know, do we want to put the future of the Republican Party in the hands of a probably ultra liberal Democrat DC jury? DC Juries have not been kind to Republicans over the years.
I don't think a lot of Republicans would want to be in front of that. So I think we're taking a huge risk by empowering a jury, probably all Democrat jury in the nation's capital, the most Democrat area in the country, to pass a judgment. Because obviously if they rule against him, if they say a birth against him, that's gonna hurt us in the election. You said you would pardon former President Trump.
Why do you think that's the best decision for the country? Why should I be willing to do it in order to move the country forward? Because, you know, to send an, he's almost 80 year old to send to prison potentially, is that gonna help heal the country or is that just gonna exacerbate the divisions in the country? And I think when Ford did that with Nixon, you had a situation where it was not necessarily the popular thing to do, but in hindsight it was the right thing to do.
Because at some point you gotta come together and look forward. I don't wanna relitigate all the stuff involving Donald Trump. That is not going to be helpful for this country. And so it's really about what's best for the overall American people.
It's less about Donald Trump specifically. To follow that logic, then if you were in the Oval Office, would you ask Republicans to stand down on investigations of Biden in the spirit of not putting the country through more turmoil? Well, but Biden has not been held accountable for anything, is facing all these charges. Biden has not faced anything.
You know, they haven't even been investigating a lot of the stuff criminally like they have against Trump. There have been different standards of justice that have been applied on these, on these investigations. Because the amount of money that's come into their family, how does that happen? We have millions of dollars that's coming into the family and yet that's not leading to major FBI.
I mean, I don't know that the congressional investigation has been very effective. I know they promise things. I don't know how much they've actually delivered on it. But we don't even have we aren't even scratching the surface on that.
Joining now from Des Moines is NBC's Dasha Burns. Great job there to you, Brian. Dasha. So let's talk about your key takeaways.
You pressed it repeatedly basically on whether Iowa is make or break. He didn't name another state that he thinks he's going to win. What did you learn and what were your big takeaways from your interview? Yeah, I mean, look, Kristen, this is a candidate that started out in race as the top contender to beat Donald Trump vying for first place.
He's now finding himself fighting for second place with Nikki Haley. And I asked him if he would admit to that and he of course had issues with the premise of that question. He said he's not fighting for second place. He pointed to all of the money spent on negative ads against him as evidence for him still being top dog in this fight.
At the same time as he said there, he had a hard time naming a state after Iowa that he would potentially be able to win. And this is a candidate who has also spent a lot of this interview, even though he's not fighting for second place, going after his right now main opponent, Nikki Haley. You can see in the ad spending in the focus from his team, the amount of time and energy that they are fighting spending to fight Haley at the same time as they are also trying to take some punches at Trump. He really sharpened his tone and so stepped up his attacks against Haley in this interview in a way that we haven't heard yet.
And he did take a sharper tone with Trump as well as he heard there when it comes to his legal troubles. Yeah, you heard him call the teh phoney. I thought that was certainly underscores that point you're making that he's really trying to toughen his tone. I know you asked him about January 6th as well.
What you tell us about that? Yeah. I want you to take a listen to his answer on January 6th and we'll talk on the other side. What lessons did the country learn from January 6th?
What did you also personally take away from that day? Well, look, I mean, I think it's been politicized by the left. You know, I don't think it was supposed to Be that was not supposed to happen. I think people went to protest, and I think it got out of hand.
But I think something that happened to our nation, what do you think we can take away from it? I don't. I think it's more of a media with the anniversary. This is like Christmas Day for the media, like, to talk about January 6th.
I know it's a big deal. I know a lot of the, a lot of the corporate outlets. Guess I get that. I don't have a single question in Iowa about January 6th.
I mean, I take in hundreds and hundreds of questions. I think people are focused, looking forward. So I'm not gonna spend time, you know, in my campaign either now or in the general election, you know, talking about, you know, rehashing that. Obviously, there's been a lot of energy that's got into it.
I'll let Donald Trump handle that. I mean, I know he was, you know, president during that. I know some of his supporters got caught up in this who, you know, were just basically there, didn't necessarily do anything violent, and they now got caught up in the law. He was not willing to give them any type of legal protection or clemency on the way out the door.
Now he says he would do it, but I think that's probably too little too late. And Kristen. Yeah. Really striking answer there.
And look, you know, when I talk to voters out here out on the campaign trail about January 6th, you do get quite a range of answers. I mean, there are people who have left the Republican Party because what happened that day, people who will never be able to put their names next to Donald Trump on the ballot again because of that day. And then there are others who feel similarly to what you just heard from Governor DeSantis. And he, of course, has been trying to push himself over the course of this campaign to the right of Donald Trump, trying to play to those voters who are farther and farther on the right of the political spectrum.
And that's what you heard him play to there. Yeah. Just a fascinating interview with Governor Ron DeSantis. Dasha Burns, great work.
Thank you so much. I know you're not done. You're back tomorrow with the first look at your exclusive interview with former governor and U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley.
We look forward to talking to you then. Dasha, thank you for that. Joining me now on set is Molly Ballsy, your political correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, Cornell Belcher, Democratic pollster and NBC News political analyst, and Stephen Hayes, editor and CEO of the Dispatch, and also an NBC News political analyst. Happy New Year to all of you.
Here we are in 2024. Thank you for joining me today. Molly, let me start with you and just get reaction to everything we just heard from Governor DeSantis. And it's striking to hear him say, people here in Iowa don't ask me about January 6th.
As Joshua said, people talk about it. I was in Iowa. Folks talked to me about it and said they broke with Donald Trump over that. What were your big takeaways from?
You just heard from him. Yeah, there's so much. But in that answer and so many others, what struck me was just the subtlety of his dance that Ron DeSantis is trying to do. Right.
You heard him there trying to triangulate, try to draw a wedge between Trump and his supporters by sort of pointing out, like, oh, he's defending the January six riders now, but where was he, you know, on his way out the door when he actually could have done something for them? Trying to question his commitment to the January six riders, but at the same time, not at all criticize him for what happened or what he did that day. Very similar to the answer about the indictments. Right.
Where he's saying, well, I'm not going to actually criticize him for any of the things that he did because those are the things that Democrats criticize him for, and I don't want to be perceived as on their side. And you just see the effectiveness of Trump's technique of polarization, of divide and conquer, where Trump has positioned himself. So you're either with him or against him, and there is no in between. And that has meant that for Ron DeSantis, trying to find that space in between to say to people, I still love Trump, but aren't I better in all of these ways?
It just has not been a viable message. What's been so striking about it is that Here we are 11 days from the Iowa caucuses, and we are just really starting to see him find new ways to try to sharpen his tone, even as Molly rightfully points out, he's doing this very delicate dance of not going all the way, going the full Christie, if you will. Yeah, I mean, I think it's subtle, it's nuanced, but it's also just incoherent. I think what we've seen in those answers is the reason that Ron DeSantis has fallen in the polling and is no longer Donald Trump's chief rival.
He's trying to have it both ways on virtually everything and contradicting himself sometimes in the same space of each Sentence. I mean, he talks about how he doesn't want to smear Donald Trump doesn't believe in that. He's not gonna fall for that. It's a media game.
And yet at the same time, he's willing to say that Nikki Haley is a phony, that she's bought and paid for by Wall Street. I mean, he's smearing Nikki Haley, but he's not smearing Donald Trump. That just tells you, I think, where his allegiance lies. And the question about, you know, Donald Trump, whether Ron DeSantis would team up with Nikki Haley to take on Donald Trump, he's right.
I know my supporters are probably going to be where Donald Trump is. I think that was a very revealing answer. Perhaps not intentional. I think so as well.
And the other revealing moment, Cornell, I thought, was he really struggled. In fact, he didn't name another state that he thought he could win. And, oh, by the way, Trump said He had, like, 37 points in Iowa. And he said it was striking me.
He said, I mean, for the long haul. And he's not right. You have been campaigning professional hack like I am to understand that what has happened, he has burnt through an alarming amount of money in a short period of time, which is just malpractice, running the campaign. He's now struggling with funding.
He's had to pull back advertising from key states, and he's focused now on one state. So he's. So he's out of funds and his polling numbers are collapsing. He's not in for a long haul.
I suspect that if he does not come in a close second to Nikki Haley in Iowa, we will not see him very much on the campaign trail. I think that you're right that Iowa is going to force all these candidates to ask themselves some really tough questions. I want to turn to the current president, President Biden. He's going to be delivering a speech on democracy tomorrow in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.
He's out with a new campaign ad. His speech tomorrow's gonna focus on democracy. This ad focuses on democracy. Play a little bit and we'll talk about it on the other side.
There's something dangerous happening, America. There's an extremist movement that does not share the basic beliefs in our democracy. All of us are being asked right now, what will we do to maintain our democracy? History's watching.
The world is watching. Most important, our children and grandchildren will hold us responsible. Cornell, what do you make of this messaging? What do you make of this strategy?
It worked in 2020. You could argue it worked in 2022 as well. Yeah. I would argue that it helped push back the tide.
Look, a lot of people questioned when, when, when president went to the, I think with Philadelphia, he made the democracy speech. Then he got criticized. He got criticized and they should shut up. People criticized him because him interjecting democracy and making democracy a key issue in that election helped turn the tide.
Campaigns are actually not that difficult. You know, each candidate wants to determine what they want the debate to be about. Right. And what this president is saying, what he wants this debate to be about is democracy and freedoms.
Because if that's what the debate's about, they like their chances. This was a really good ad. It's a really important point in time for the Biden campaign. See Republicans getting jittery when they look at an ad like that, when they think about the issue of abortion, where a lot of Republican strategists acknowledge there's still no clear message when it comes to that issue.
That's critical to a lot of voters. Yeah. I think this ad in this broad messaging has two advantages. One riles up to Democratic basics and reminds Democratic basics.
So what's at stake, the way that Joe Biden wants to frame what's at stake, the other thing it does, it appeals to people who, like the gentleman who asked the question of Ron DeSantina yesterday sans about that. That gentleman asked, asked about the November 2020 election and talked about Donald Trump lying about having won the election. It does matter to some group of people what it says to those people who are not probably very excited about Joe Biden as a second term president. It says that this matters more.
And I think that's a pretty powerful argument for some independents and for some Republicans who are frustrated with Donald Trump. We're having this discussion against the backdrop of a new poll which is a third of Republican voters believe the FBI organized or encouraged January 6th attack on the Capitol. Even though, of course, that's not the case. How compelling of an argument is this?
And what are we in for if we are in for this rematch between Biden and Trump? I mean, what struck me more than anything about that ad was a sense of continuity with Biden's 2020 campaign. There was a clip in there of Charlottesville, and that was Joe Biden said the reason he ran in 2020, and it's still the reason he's running because he sees this twilight struggle for the soul of the nation. And he believes we are still in it as long as we are still.
He is still up against Donald Trump. And so that is something that fundamentally has not changed. He said recently at a fundraiser that he might not even be running if Trump wasn't still in the race. And I think you see a real authenticity here now that one third of Republicans certainly aren't going find it believable.
And Trump has done a very good job of making this a partisan issue and convincing a lot of his supporters to believe his lies about the 2020 election and the January 6 riot. But for Biden, you can tell that this is still the animating issue driving his campaign. The question is just do enough Americans still see this the way he does? That is the key question.
And this conversation will continue 11 days ago until Iowa. Thank you so much for a great conversation, Molly Cornell and Stephen. And after the break, the battle over ballot access is ramping up as former President Trump appeals another case to the court. Supreme Supreme Court, You're WATCHING ME THE PRESS now.
Welcome back. We have a few developments to tell you about Donald Trump's efforts to remain on the primary ballot in all 50 states. And out of the courtroom. Today, the former president's legal team sought to halt the former president's federal election interference trial, telling the judge, Special Counsel Jack Smith, should be held in contempt for violating a stay in the case by continuing to file motions.
Yesterday, Mr. Trump asked the Supreme Court to overturn Colorado's Supreme Court's decision declaring him ineligible to appear on its primary ballot because of his actions tied to January 6th. NBC News justice reporter Ryan Reilly joins me now. Ryan, good to see you.
Happy New Year. Thanks for being here. So let's start with the first part of that. What grounds is the former president asking that Jack Smith be held in contempt?
Is that realistic? You know, for one, I think they want to see headlines with Jack Smith and contempt in them. Right. That's essentially why there's this.
You know, I don't think there's any chance that the judge would hold, especially because prosecutors telegraphed this specifically even before she put the case on hold last month, three days before that filing actually said we are going to continue to meet these deadlines. Essentially, they're turning in their homework early and that's what they want to be held contempt for. Donald Trump is under no obligation to respond to any of the filings that they're making. But basically this case will likely go back to the court.
And they want to try to keep it on schedule as much as possible because this is really all about the clock. That's what this case is. In the end, when this case takes place, if it can take place. And the clock is running out actually quite quickly, less than a year now.
What happens with Trump's what happens next, I should say with the former president's appeal of Colorado Supreme Court efforts to keep him off the ballot. Yeah, Trump cases this upcoming year. But I think the sort of are divergent, disagree on how exactly they're going to handle this and how quickly they're going to handle this, essentially. But a lot of the deadlines are really looming because the idea of ballots running before they actually before the election actually takes place.
So I think there's going to be expedited of this, but we're not sure exactly when because we are in uncharted territory as we will be for much of 2020. When you say expedited, are we talking weeks, months? Yeah. I mean, if they wanted to be the printing deadline, they would need to do this basically in the next couple of weeks, take this case up.
And I think that's, you know, the Supreme Court in Colorado put this on hold specifically because they knew that the Supreme Court, you know, the Supreme Court was going to take this up in the end. So this was sort of planned out. But, you know, the Supreme Court's ultimately going to deciding a lot of these issues as we go into the 2024 presidential election. All right, Ryan Reilly, thank you so much.
We appreciate your great reporting as always and thank you for being with us this hour. The news continues with Hallie Jackson right now. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention.
They made a life together. Then one night the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, un, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Makowitz and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from day one.
Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.