Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, where we're getting new reaction from President Trump. In an exclusive phone interview I had within this afternoon after the stunning capture and arrest of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro this weekend, as the ousted leader made his first court appearance today. This was the scene this morning as Maduro was transported to federal court, surrounded by guards before being loaded into an armored truck.
Maduro and his wife both pled not guilty to charges, which include narco-terrorism, conspiracy, cocaine importation, conspiracy, and weapons charges. Maduro seeming defiant during court today, telling the court via a translator, quote, I am still the president of my country. The president reacting to today's arraignment during my phone call with him telling me, quote, it is an extraordinary moment in history. That's true, and it's great for the hemisphere.
He went on to say, the prices of oil are going to, you know, be reduced. The president also telling me we are not at war with Venezuela and that he would not need congressional approval to send in a second strike. One of the biggest questions right now is who is really in charge in Venezuela after President Trump said explicitly on Saturday that the U.S. would run the country.
I asked the president about that today. If Secretary's Rubio and HEGSeth, Stephen Miller would be the top three people in charge of Venezuela, the president said, yeah, among the top people, including J.D. Vance. I then asked him, who will be the top person if there is one?
The president's answer to that question was me. Yesterday on Meet the Press, I also asked Secretary of State Marco Rubio about who's in charge. Here's what he said, who are those people who will be running the country specifically? Well, it's not running the concerning policy.
The policy with regards to this, we want Venezuela to move in a certain direction because not only do we think it's good for the people of Venezuela, it's in our national interests. This is a team effort by the entire national security apparatus of our country, but it is running this policy. And the goal of the policy is to see changes in Venezuela that are beneficial to the United States But hours later, while speaking to reporters on Air Force One, President Trump offered a different view, doubling down on his statement that the U.S. will run Venezuela and seeming to threaten Venezuela's interim leader.
I don't have to tell you, I just say that she will face a situation probably worse than you know, because you know, Maduro gave up immediately. But today, President Trump told me he thinks Delcy Rodriguez, who was sworn in today officially as Venezuela's interim leader, is cooperating with the United States, telling me quote, I do get the sense that they're cooperating, they need help, and I get the sense that, you know, she loves her country and she wants her country to survive. Meanwhile, President Trump is now escalating his threats against countries beyond Venezuela, suggesting Sunday night that Cuba could be the next regime to fall while also threatening the U.S. that the U.S.
could take action against several other countries, even those beyond the Western Hemisphere. And the President told me this afternoon, he's quote, very serious about needing Greenland for national security. Joining me now to start off is NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba, and NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel in Bogota, Colombia. Monica, let me start with you, President Trump saying that ultimately he's the one in charge of Venezuela.
He did list some other names, Secretary Rubio, who I spoke with on Sunday, Secretary Haggsett, the Vice President, Stephen Miller. He didn't indicate that there's a timeline by which he wants to see elections happen in Venezuela. What are your sources telling you inside the administration, Monica, about how this effort to take charge of Venezuela's unfolding? Well, it's one thing, Kristen, to hear from sources inside the administration who maybe have a different answer, like what you saw on your own program yesterday, and then to have the President himself come out and tell you directly that he is the one who views himself as dictating this policy.
And if it is like Secretary of State Marco Rubio says, that is going to be the role of the United States to really be setting the policy here and not necessarily, quote, running the country, the President seems to indicate that it will be him alongside these other top officials, perhaps the Vice President, the deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller, and others trying to wrap their arms around the massive task of dictating what could come next. And I think that is incredibly significant that the President continues to lean in on that and not put any distance there where we have seen, again, these top officials attempt to put a little bit of distance there and try to say that the United States isn't effectively going to be running the country. But I think it's really clear, Kristen, from conversations and the fast moving developments of the last two days that there is no clear timeline of just how this is going to work, though, the thing we have seen and gotten a little bit more information on is this idea that the President wants to be clear. He is putting a lot of pressure on that interim leader who you just mentioned, Delcey Rodriguez.
And though he wouldn't confirm to you that he necessarily spoke with her, we do know that Secretary Rubio, as he said, has been speaking with her and has been communicating with her. But remember that the sort of marker the President has put forward is that if he doesn't like what she does, what the interim leader and President now is doing in coordination with U.S. officials, he is talking and threatening this second wave or additional action. And it's just really unclear how long he's going to give her before we see a determination on that, Kristen.
And it's so fascinating, Monica. Secretary Rubio has really been one of the central figures so far in terms of this operation in Venezuela and the next steps. Obviously, he was the point person over the weekend. What are you hearing about his expanding role?
And we know our colleagues, Andrea Mitchell, Abigail Williams, have been doing some reporting on this as well. I mean, Secretary Rubio from the first Trump administration when he was then Senator Marco Rubio has been beating this drum. He has been very consistent. He has been very clear.
And he has in recent weeks and months repeated the fact that he considered Nicholas Maduro an indicted drug trafficker, somebody who should face the full wrath of the United States. He would say that time and time again, he would be the one who was likely considered the loudest voice on this and saying that he really didn't consider Maduro to be a legitimate president and to essentially make him fair game for this, even though for months we had heard Kristen, that the mission here wasn't going to be regime change. But Secretary Rubio is somebody who, in addition to his role, of course, as Secretary of State, as national security advisor, has clearly amassed a lot of influence in this particular sphere when it comes to Venezuela, when it comes to Latin America. And when it comes to Cuba, and I thought some of those other comments that the President made to you about what could come next for Cuba's future, clearly somebody behind the scenes there who is dictating and who is really, again, somebody who's had a lot of influence on the President and the administration overall there is Secretary Rubio.
And this is a space in which he has been very clear about what he would like to see happen next. And he was the one who delivered that warning over the weekend in the presser that if other world leaders are watching this, they should take note about what could happen to them next. Monica Alba, thank you so much for your reporting from the White House. Fast-moving developments, Richard Angle, let me turn to you in the region there in Bogota.
I spoke to President Trump about Colombia. I asked him, could that be the next country? He wouldn't answer directly, but made it very clear he's not pleased with the leadership in Colombia. So what is the reaction there in the region so far, Richard?
What are you hearing? Well, I'll start with Colombia. It could be that he was talking about the future political process for the President here, Gustavo Pedro. He's not going to be in office very much longer.
He faces elections in three months, and he can't run again. So there are no candidates here, even his opponents, who are calling on President Trump to intervene and to come and arrest him. This is a democracy, they held elections, and presidents are only allowed to run once. So if you've run and you've finished your term, you cannot run again.
Hearing much more concern about the future of Cuba. That Cuba has perhaps never been weaker. That Cuba could be next on the list. And we might not see the same kind of snatch-and-grab operation that we saw in Venezuela, and I want to talk to you more about that.
Very interesting that he says the new leader of the country, does it because he is in his opinion cooperating, just after he seemed to threaten her life earlier today, saying that she could face a worse fate than Nicolas Maduro if she doesn't cooperate, and a worse fate than being arrested could only be some sort of direct action. But in terms of Cuba, hearing him has been working, talking to diplomatic sources, is that the idea or the hope is that Cuba will become weaker and weaker as it loses Venezuela, as it loses oil, as the people become more and more distressed, and that they could take matters into their own hands. And you saw President Trump, he said, what would tip the balance for the U.S. in Cuba is if the Cuban government starts to attack its own people.
Sort of suggesting that might be where he hopes that it's going, that if there is unrest, people take to the streets, there's some violent counter-reaction, we could see a different kind of regime change in Cuba. But what they're trying to do now, and I think this discrepancy is that you, President Trump, and you tell me you don't know about the conversation, says that he wants to run Venezuela and run it through his administration with him, making the ultimate big decisions, but that he doesn't want to govern the country. He doesn't want American troops on the ground going from the village to village, dealing with the social problems, dealing with the Justice Department, but that he wants to govern the policy of the country. So govern it, no, but run the country.
Yes, it is a very slippery slope. No indications, no guarantees that this is going to work. There have been many attempts to impose policy that have not gone far. But it seems like regime change might be the word of 2026.
Yeah, Richard, you hit the nail on the head in the way that you characterize how President Trump seems to be viewing this. You're absolutely right. And I do think it is notable that he does not seem to, or at least he's not revealing what the timeline is that he has for the United States to be in charge of men as well. As you say, it is a very slippery slope.
Talk a little bit about the dynamics at play there. The fact that you have this interim leader, Delcy Rodriguez, he says that Secretary Rubio speaks to her regularly in Spanish. She seems to be cooperating now, he says. As you know, that is a big shift in the wake of that threat.
How do you see this evolving, Richard? Well, there are also certain facts that I think cannot be ignored. The U.S. Special Forces went into the country and they didn't really face round fire.
There was a little bit, one helicopter that was described and there were dozens of Cubans that were killed. I've heard from sources over the last several months that Maduro's inner circle, his loyal guards who were loyal with him to the end were Cubans and that they were not in on any kind of deal. But the fact that there was no serious resistance even as American helicopters were hovering over the country, I think does, over the Capitol, I think does speak volumes. Not only about the expertise and precision of U.S.
Special Operations Forces, but about the mood in the country and perhaps its political future. Looking ahead, we haven't mentioned Iran very much. There were new protests in Iran. They've been turning deadly.
It's a country I've been following closely for many years now. And I'm not sure if I've ever seen it in a weaker position. Well, and Richard, of course, President Trump has brought an action in Iran. He says if innocent protesters are killed, Richard Engel, thank you so much as always for your great reporting.
We really appreciate it. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia. He's also the Vice Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator Warner, thank you so much for being here.
And happy new year to you. Thank you, Chris, and happy new year to you. Thank you, Senator. You are about to head into an extremely important meeting with administration officials who are prepared to brief you and the other members of the gang of eight leaders about the operation in Venezuela.
What are your main questions? I think my main question, I got twofold. One is what kind of precedent did we just set? I know the administration is claiming this was simply executing a warrant.
And under that theory, does that mean if Vladimir Putin thinks that Zelensky has broken Russian law that he could be extracted with no consequence or that President Xi, because the Communist Party of China has believed for 50 years that Taiwan is a rogue province. They could bring it back in. This idea that that gives you a blessing to take whatever unilateral action you want, would completely destroy any kind of international order. So the basic underlying rationale and precedent is number one.
Number two is the question of, OK, if we're running Venezuela, what does that mean? And what the President's comments sound an awful lot like, what President Bush said is, don't worry. You know, this is not going to be hard. President Bush said about Iraq.
This is not going to be hard. And we're going to have it all paid for by the Venezuelan oil itself. Oh, anyone follows Venezuela? Maduro was such a bad guy.
And he so mismanaged the country that to get Venezuelan oil exports back anything, even approximate to where they were at 4 million barrels 30 years ago. We'll take two or three years. Does that mean we're going to be there for two or three years controlling the country and how you actually control a country unless you have boots on the ground in this notion that it keeps switching their answers and it's no, we're going to do it from an offshore basis. I just, that doesn't pass a smell test.
Are you confident about the level of transparency about the briefing that you will be getting today? No, unfortunately, I am not, you know, I will acknowledge Secretary will be able to try to reach me after the strike had started, but not in terms of before, which Mark and I are good with friends and clearly he would have been concerned if he was still in my shoes as he was a former gang of eight members. And are they going to give us the whole story? And you know, the questions that kind of is also being big is, you know, will my Republican friends be willing to say, hey, hold on, our system is not that one individual arbitrarily gets to make all these decisions and put our troops in harm's way and a lot of those troops, remember these ships are almost all have been home ported in my state of Virginia out of Norfolk, Virginia.
And I got a lot of mons and ads of those sailors and soldiers who are awfully often concerned about their sons and daughters. Do you think, and I hear the terms in which you're discussing the last Maduro, do you think that Venezuela though is better off without him, given that he was a narco trafficker, given the administration says he's responsible for the deaths of so many people? Well, do I think Venezuela is better off without Maduro? Absolutely.
But the administration loses a lot of its credibility when we say, you know, we want to go after narco traffickers and we believe that our law is the best in the world. And they have the same breath say, oh, by the way, this former president of Honduras, Hernandez, who did exactly the things that Maduro's been accused of and who got prosecuted by American law and was put in prison suddenly gets pardoned for political reasons that undermines the credibility and any kind of moral high ground than America may have. But Venezuela better without Maduro, absolutely. But is it really significantly better if we're simply moving to another regime loyalist in the vice president Rodriguez and I was frankly astonished by the fact that President Trump so kind of dismissingly seemed to exclude the Venezuelan opposition leader Machado who had won the Nobel Prize.
Maybe he's just upset that he didn't get the Nobel Prize and she won it, but to dismiss the person that had she and her party had won what appeared to be about two thirds of the vote when the Venezuelan people very bravely went and voted in 2024. Again, we made a mistake back in 2024 and Biden was there not putting more pressure on it at that moment in time, but that still doesn't mean, you know, this going forward lack of plan is again going to work out for America. And I did notably I asked President Trump in my call directly if he didn't want Machado there because she won the Nobel Peace Prize. He said that did not have anything to do with it.
But let me ask you because I want to ask you broadly speaking about how you see this what started off as a pressure campaign, quite frankly, in Venezuela. You stopped short of calling those US strikes on alleged cartel boats war crimes in my conversation with President Trump that I just had on the phone a few moments ago. He said the United States is not at war with Venezuela. House Minority leader Jeffries told me over the weekend he believes the actions the US took over the weekend do constitute an active war.
How do you see it, Senator? You know, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck sure, it seems like a duck. Yeah, we've got the largest armada that has been assembled in the Caribbean, at least since the overfall of Noriega and Panama. We have 15,000 soldiers and sailors.
We sent in the Delta Force. The fact that 150 planes were dispatched and let's give the American military enormous credit. They have their execution was brilliant, but to somehow describe that as anything other than a military mission in an effort to kind of make a regime change. I don't know how that passes the snow test not only around the world, but I don't think it passes the smell test of most Americans and honestly most Trump supporters who thought that President Trump was going to get us out of these foreign wars.
Instead, you've got not only the action of Venezuela, but now it's threatening Columbia, Mexico, countries that have democratically elected presidents whether we like them or not. President Trump has said and frankly he reiterated in this call that I had with him that if the Venezuelan interim government does not cooperate, United States has a second wave waiting. He does not believe that would require congressional approval to launch further action in Venezuela. What is your response to the president?
My response is this is one more example of President Trump completely ignoring the loss of our country. I mean, I cannot believe I wouldn't put anything past President Trump. But the idea that he would try to make the case that the largest amount of people we've amassed in decades, 150 planes deployed, Delta Force sent into a nation and we're saying we're threatening to go back in and he's not what his word to use on Saturday at least was he's not afraid of boots on the ground. That is a military mission.
That is a classic definition of military action. And my concern is not only the ramifications for Venezuela and the whole region, but my concern as well is if this is the new standard, then why does this stop Putin from not only taking himself into Ukraine or for that matter? If he disagrees with them, you know, the Polish president and says, OK, that Polish president has broken Russian law or so we're going to go and grab him. Where does this end under this theory of the case?
I don't get it. Well, before I let you go, Senator, I do want to ask you about another story we are following. I want to get your reaction to Defense Secretary Pete Hagg said announcing he's censoring your colleague, Senator Mark Kelly over his participation in a video that called on troops to resist unlawful orders. What was your reaction to that move by Secretary Hagg Seth?
Mark Kelly is more of a patriot and put his life more in harm's way to protect our country and then to serve our country as an astronaut. And I think it is insulting and, again, I'm not surprised by Secretary Hagg Seth. This was somebody that was so disdainful of our military that he treated classified information in a sloppy way when he was on a non-secure channel like Signal and putting out American military plans in terms of bombing in Yemen before it took place. And again, he never even had the courtesy to come down to Hampton Roads and talk to those sailors' families who were put in harm's way because of his carelessness.
So in this one, I think, not only me, but I think virtually every member of the Senate would say Mark Kelly's patriotism and his commitment to our country is second to none. I think this is purely political retribution. All right. Senator Mark Warner, thank you so much for your time.
We hope you will stay close to us on all of these different stories, including after briefing today. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Crystal. We want to turn legal case against a glass Maduro and legal questions surrounding how he was detained.
As we noted earlier, both Maduro and his wife pleaded not guilty today that opposed Venezuelan leader-facing several charges that include narco-terrorism conspiracy, cocaine-importation conspiracy, and weapons offenses, joining me now are NBC News, law enforcement, and intelligence course on Tom Winter and Jay Johnson, former Homeland Security Secretary, former general counsel for the Defense Department, and a former assistant U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York. Thanks to both of you for being here. Tom, let me start with you.
What happened inside that federal courtroom today? Well, Kristen, it was really kind of a typical first appearance, if you will. And I know we'll discuss maybe what made this different from other cases. As far as the exact talk of this, it started almost exactly at noon as it was scheduled to do so.
And we heard the fact that Maduro had been made aware of by his attorneys of his charges, same thing with his wife. He did get up and speak, and he made several to the fact that not only was he not guilty, but he said that he was a decent man and he was the president of Venezuela. So clearly speaking to an audience far beyond the small confines of the courthouse at 500 Pearl Street in Manhattan, his wife echoed the same sentiment that she has also not guilty and talked about her stature that she believes she still has in Venezuelan society. And then her attorney did note the fact that she was wearing bandages on her face and apparently had, according to him, some serious bruising on her ribs that was part of the raid.
So that was a little bit of new that we received. And they were feeling an indictment that had been filed actually back in March of 2020. Bill Barr kind of pushed the investigators at the time to get that indictment filed. There was definitely an effort back in 2020 in the first Trump administration to be able to ratchet up the heat a little bit on the Venezuelan leadership at the time.
And now these charges that came for today have some differences, but effectively, Kristen, the arguments are the same. Jay, let me turn to you. Talk about your key takeaways from the arraignment today. And also, what do you expect the crux of the last Maduro's argument to be?
Will he argue that, in fact, the way in which he was detained was unlawful? Well, first of all, Kristen, I have to say, if I were in the situation room during the unfolding of this operation as a member of the National Security Council, I'd be asking, what are the second and third order effects of snatching out of a country? Someone who's been the rule of the country for 12 years. What's going to happen to the security situation?
What will happen to the drug cartels there? It seems as though once or twice every generation, we have to relearn the lessons of attempted regime change in other countries. Now, in terms of the legal case here, most lawyers in today's Department of Justice would say that there was domestic legal authority for the US military to go in and arrest Maduro and his wife in support of a valid the issue to arrest warrant, a validly brought indictment in the Southern District of New York by the US Attorney there. The harder question is the international legal question.
Is there international legal authority for simply going into another sovereign nation and arresting the head of that nation and bringing them to our jurisdiction? Senator Warner used the analogy I would use. What happens if President Vladimir Putin decides he could do the same thing to President Zelensky in Ukraine? I would expect, following today's arraignment, there will be a motion to dismiss the indictment on the basis of sovereign immunity, because Maduro is the head of state in Venezuela.
There may also be a motion to dismiss for violation of international law for their manner in which he was arrested. In another country, there are arguments in international law that a country can do something like this as an act of self-defense, but it's not universally accepted. That was the legal basis for us going in to get Osama bin Laden in 2011, though there had not been a UN Security Council resolution. So this prosecution, which is essentially a drug conspiracy prosecution, will be loaded with all sorts of domestic and international legal issues.
And I'm curious, Secretary Johnson, do you see parallels between this case and the case against Manuel Noriega some 36 years ago and do you anticipate that legally it will unfold in the same way? What are the parallels you see? And what are you watching for there? Well, the obvious parallel is the United States government, the United States government, the United States military, going into another sovereign nation, another sovereign territory in Noriega's case, Panama, in this case, Venezuela, arresting the leader of that country without host nation consent and bringing him into our jurisdiction for US prosecution.
Now, the dynamic is very different here 36 years later, but that's the obvious legal parallel. And it does present all sorts of thorny international and domestic legal issues. You know, Bill Barr was the Attorney General when Maduro was indicted during the first Trump administration. He wrote in a 1989 legal opinion that paved the way for Noriega's defended legal questions about Maduro's arrest.
I want to play some of that and get your reaction on the other side. People get wrapped around the axle about over this dichotomy. Was this law enforcement or was this national defense? I think what people have to understand is when a group of foreigners and Panama illustrates this well, when a group of foreigners are engaged in an activity that's directed against the United States, that can both be at the same time illegal activity that subjects them to our legal process, but also it can be a national security threat that subjects them to the use of our defense power.
And this is that kind of situation. What do you make of that argument, Secretary Johnson? Kristen Bill Barr has a very, very, very robust view of executive legal authority in situations like this. He's an outlier, basically, in terms of the mainstream legal thinking into the circumstances under which our executive branch, our U.S.
military can go into another country without congressional authorization and either start a war or arrest someone. It's a very, very aggressive, robust point of view. He's a very talented lawyer, but his view is on executive authority and these circumstances are outlier views. Tom, let me give you the final word.
We expect they will be back in court in March. What will you be watching for? Yeah, I think we're going to see a flurry of filings right along the lines of what the Secretary alluded to, which is a filings about his removal challenges to that. I think we're going to see a letter from the defense attorney for Maduro's wife detailing the injuries that she has requesting medical attention.
Same thing we might see from Maduro as well. They also indicated that Maduro is going to put forward a request for bail, in this case, which should be an interesting argument. It's always a little bit of a double-edged sword, because, of course, they can make the argument look. He's not a threat to flight who's going to come and get him.
The Venezuelan military, he can be held in this other district of New York, somewhere in Manhattan with an ankle bracelet or something like that. But that gives the opening for prosecutors to really come back and lay out evidence, potentially new evidence that they have against Maduro. So those are just a couple of things, Kristen, we'll be tracking closely. All right, Tom Winter, Secretary J.
Johnson, for all of the historical perspective. Thank you both so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Coming up next, a K-house Republican whose district contains one of the most significant Venezuelan populations in the U.S.
responds to the Trump administration's capture of Nicolas Maduro and the uncertain vote ahead. Keep it right here on Meet the Press Now. As the day wraps up, get this scoop on what's been happening with Here's a Scoop, a new podcast from NBC News with your host, Jasmine Vesugio. We'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News' trusted journalist.
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It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Welcome back. Following this weekend's stunning capture of Nicolas Maduro, Republicans on Capitol Hill are largely applauding the President's actions.
Joining me now is Florida Republican Congressman Carlos Jimenez. Congressman Jimenez, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Happy New Year to you.
Happy New Year to you, too. So I just had this exclusive interview on the phone with President Trump. He touted the fact that, yes, the United States is in fact in charge of Venezuela. He talked about the fact that Secretary Rubio, Secretary Hegsetz, Stephen Miller, the Vice President would all be a part of this, but he said he will ultimately be making the final decisions.
What is your assessment and reaction so far to the developments? Look, I'm encouraged by what happened. Obviously, maybe not obviously to you, but here in Miami, this what happened on Saturday really has been extremely popular. And we have a large Cuban population, a large Venezuelan population.
And so we've been waiting. The Venezuelan has been waiting for this for like 25 years. And so as a Cuban American, I'm very happy for them. That Nicolas Maduro was arrested by the U.S.
government. He is a narco terrorist. He prayed through the States. He is a criminal as far as I'm concerned.
Of course, now he's facing American justice. And we'll determine that once and for all he'll be brought before jury, and then they will determine whether the charges will stick or not. But I'm extremely proud of what the President did. And the people here in Miami overwhelmed and they support the actions taken by President Trump.
And so we thank him for the actions that he took. And there's this initial phase. And now comes the really challenging part, which is that President Trump says the United States is now going to effectively take charge. I asked him if there's a timeline for that.
He did not lay. Well, now he talked about the fact that there's some really tough work ahead. Do you feel, Congressman, as though you have enough information, enough details about how specifically the United States is going to proceed in Venezuela, the role that it plans to play? Look, I think the ultimate goal is to have a free and democratic Venezuela.
And so that is the goal and that is the end of the journey. Now, what road that journey takes, I don't think that there's a road map for this. I don't think there's a play bit for this. I understand why the President is dealing with the L.C.
Rodriguez right now in that regime, because it's really still part of the Maduro regime that's controlled. Because we don't want to see bloodshed. We don't want to see civil war. We want a smooth transition.
And what I want to see is a smooth transition to one, free and fair democratic elections. And then once those elections are held, a process for a orderly transfer of power to the duly elected representatives of the people of Venezuela. And then we will have a free and democratic Venezuela. That's easier said than done.
And so I trust the judgment of the people that the President has put in charge to lay out a path for the President who will then decide which path to take. But I can tell you this, that maintaining Nicolas Maduro in power was not tenable. And that regime, it's not tenable. Now, why that regime will cooperate with us?
It's pretty simple. I mean, there's an easy way and there's a hard way. There's a number of these regime members that are still under indictment. And so I'm sure that that is being used as leveraged by the United States to say, look, this is the thing we want to see.
This is the policy we want to carry out. One thing that I do want to see right away is to sign a good faith. It's the release of political prisoners. And we know that there are hundreds and not thousands of political prisoners in Venezuela.
They need to be released. And then a process where the opposition can return to Venezuela, have guarantees of security, and then if anything happens to any of these opposition folks, then we're not going to take that lightly. And so, you know, it's, like I said, it's easier said than done, but those are the things that have to happen. And the final thing we have to have is a free and democratic Venezuela who will then become a friend of the United States.
And then with its own riches, because Venezuela is unbelievably rich country. It's got some of the resources that are incredible, including the world's largest oil reserves. They can start the process of rebuilding their country with the help of the United States and other international partners. You know, you talk about free and fair elections.
I believe the Constitution states that needs to happen within 30 days. Do you have confidence that will, in fact, happen within 30 days? Because President Trump signaled to me it could be far longer than that. Yeah, well, this is a matter of months for me, not a matter of years.
And so, 30 days seems a little short. Because, again, most of these opposition leaders aren't even in the country. You've got to now get together, decide who your candidates are, run campaigns and all that, and then have them done as well, and people decide for themselves who they want. Look, there is a legitimate government in waiting, which is the government of the Mundo Gonzales and Mediacodino Machado.
But that happened about a year and a half ago. And I've got to say that, you know, I have a lot of confidence in Mediacodino Machado. She would have been the president-elect had it not been for Maduro disqualifying her from running for president. And then she threw her weight behind the Mundo Gonzales and then they went by 70%.
But again, what I want to see, and I think what the people of Miami want to see, what the diaspora wants to see, and I think what the people of Venezuela wants to see is a, you know, that we're walking towards, and we're heading towards a free and democratic Venezuela. That will have some bumps along the way, and that will, you know, will deviate to the left or the right or whatever. I understand that for reasons that, you know, pertain to the security of the Venezuelan people. But that has to be the ultimate goal, and we need to get there.
What do you make of the president's comments about Alina Machado on Saturday saying she doesn't have the support or respect from Venezuela and Venezuela and Venezuela and does not have the respect or support of the Venezuelans? Well, I guess he hasn't spoken to the people I spoke to. Look, I was in Oslo, along with my colleague, you know, Maria Salazar. We went to Oslo when she got to the Nobel Peace Prize.
We met with Maria Machado. I speak to and I communicate with her incredibly brave person. She's the one that actually set up the process where we now know that Maduro extolled the election. She's very popular, and I believe she's very capable.
So she has the apparatus right now to control Venezuela. That's probably, I wouldn't say she does. And so in order for us to assure that we have a good, stable, democratic process, you need to make sure that the apparatus is there to assure success. And so you can't rush into this.
And so that's why I think that you may not turn to that ticket as being the one that take over right now. But if you do have a process where you do have elections and they're free and they're fair, and then the people of Venezuela themselves can choose their next leader, I personally think it's going to be Maria CoDio Machado will be the next president of Venezuela. And she'll be very good for the Venezuelan people and she'll be very good for the national security interests of the United States. Congressman, very quickly, because we're out of time.
If President Trump decides to do follow-on strikes, he told me he does not think he needs congressional approval. Do you believe that he does? No, I don't. I think that this is a law enforcement action.
The follow-up strikes that I'm envisioning from the president are there are still some bad actors there that are under indictment by the United States. And then he needs to go in and get them to bring them to justice. Then I'm fine with that. And I think that that's what he's referring to because there are a number of people that still have bounties on their head for their capture to be brought to the United States to face American justice.
There are some really bad actors that I would hope he takes care of right away that have really oppressed the Venezuelan people. And so I would hope that that would be his number one and number two targets. All right. Congressman Jimenez, thank you so very much for joining us.
We really appreciate it. My pleasure. And with me now is retired General Wesley Clark, former commander for U.S. Southern Command and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander.
General Clark, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Well, it's wonderful to have you.
I want to start off by talking to you about the current posture on the ground in Venezuela. I asked Secretary Rubio if there are U.S. forces on the ground right now. He said, no, there are not.
In my phone conversation with President Trump, I said, what would prompt him to send in U.S. troops? And he said, if he feels as though the interim Venezuelan government is not cooperating with the United States, that he would then look to the possibility of sending in troops. Do you believe, though, that U.S.
can run Venezuela without any boots on the ground? Is that realistic? I think it's realistic at this point to think that if we get the cooperation of the vice-president's former vice-president is not the president. And she follows through on what she says.
She wants to collaborate with the United States. That we bring in investment in the oil industry. We operate from a basis of mutual respect and complementarity. That it's possible that we will get some good degree of cooperation.
Now, when it comes to moving into the free and unfair elections, all the last elections haven't been free and fair. So, therefore, there's going to have to be some work up to that election state that the Congress talked about. It would be great if we can do that in a very peaceful way. If we can't do it with the collaboration and support of the Venezuelan government, then it's going to be a very difficult thing to go into the country and try to take over polling stations and look at the judiciary and so forth.
We have to deal with this country from a basis of respect. And Maduro's gone. Okay. He was indicted.
This woman is now the president. She's been appointed by the Supreme Court and the president. If she cooperates, we should be able to obtain the near-term objectives and hopefully lead Venezuela down the path to democratic society with free and fair elections in the future. But it may be many months, maybe a year or two before we get to that, maybe longer.
The president's made it very clear he is eyeing other countries. Cuba seems to be at the top of that list. I asked Secretary Rubio if Cuba is the administration's next target. He said the Cuban government is a huge problem.
And went on to detail all of the reasons why in my phone conversation today, President Trump said he actually anticipates Cuba will fall on its own. What do you make of that? What are the broader implications of the United States eyeing Cuba in this way? Well, I think if you go into Cuba, it's more directly against Russia and China.
They have a big radio, electronic listening station in Cuba. There's been 65 years of Russian support there. They did move missile launchers in there in the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. And according to some reports, there were nuclear warheads there.
And in some reports, they were left there for decades. I think they've probably been withdrawn at this point. But I think that's more directly provocative against Russia and China. If you go into Cuba, on the other hand, the geopolitical consequences would be, at least in the near term, more beneficial for us because Cuba has definitely been a problem for the United States, that government.
And we have such great ties with the Cuban people. There's so many people in Miami who would love to go back into Cuba and reclaim their homes or bring investment in and help the Cuban people. They've got lots of great doctors, but they've got lots of poverty in Cuba right now. And I think if we could work together, it would be wonderful.
All right. General Wesley Clark has many more questions, but a jam-packed show. So unfortunately, we'll have to leave it there for today. We'll bring you back soon.
Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Up next, former National Security Advisor John Bolton joins me in studio next.
Keep it right here. I'll meet the press now. Welcome back. Joining me now is someone who has worked with the president on foreign policy matters.
Thank you for being here. You have been a frequent critic of President Trump's. You are no stranger to handling these matters of international policy foreign affairs. What do you make of how the Trump administration handled this seizure of Nicolas Maduro?
Well, I think it's very incomplete and a lot of work left to do. I'm delighted Maduro is gone. That was our objective in the first term as well, unfortunately, unsuccessfully. But there has not been regime change in Venezuela, which is what is needed.
Maduro is gone, but the regime itself is still there. And I think talk about how cooperative it's going to be is really whistling past the graveyard. These people are not now preparing for the surrender. They've spent their adult lives working in the Chavista movement.
And they believe in it. And I think they're going to try and find ways to stick around. Well, so basically the question is about the day after plan. It was a big question during Iraq, for example, obviously accomplished with which you are very familiar.
Do you get the sense that the administration has mapped out a day after plan? In my conversation with President Trump, I asked him if there's a timeline for this. He has one in his head. But he said he wasn't going to publicize that.
But he said, look, he was very clear. This is going to be complicated. Yeah, I don't think they know the slightest idea of what they're going to do. I think they've made a big mistake by throwing the opposition leader, Mrs.
Machado, under the bus, by in effect saying they're not going to be part of the transition. This is going to slow the whole process down. What the L.C. Rodriguez, the vice president, I think is doing with her talk about cooperating with the United States is buying time.
They're level-checking in Venezuela to make sure the military will stick by them. The collectivos, the thugs who provide civil order. They're checking with their foreign allies. Russia, Cuba, China, Iran to see what protection and assistance they can give.
I think this is going to be a much longer, harder process than the administration thinks. And I think by cutting the opposition out, they've made their own task harder and they have undercut the very legitimacy of their ability to use military force against Maduro. The president describes the fact that the United States will be in charge. He named Secretary Rubio, Secretary Hegset, the vice president, Stephen Miller.
I said, who's ultimately in charge? He said, me. But what does that look like as a practical matter? If there aren't boots on the ground, do there not need to be some sort of U.S.
presence on the ground? How do you see it? Well, I think they're hoping that the threat of additional military force will be enough to coerce the remainder of the regime into acquiescence. But, look, Maduro has stolen two elections in a row, as recently as 2024.
These people are perfectly prepared to negotiate for their own purposes. And I just don't think the administration knows how to make its way through it. That's where the opposition could be so important if they were involved. But apparently they won't.
Well, President Trump talks about rebuilding the oil infrastructure that United States companies are going to come in and be involved in that. Experts have said it's a process that could take as long as 18 months. President Trump told me he doesn't think it's going to take that long. How do you see that process playing out?
Well, that statement by the President is delusional. If you think American oil companies or any foreign oil companies are just lining up to invest billions of dollars of capital investments in a situation as unclear as Venezuela. After many of them have had their assets expropriated going back 50 years now, you should really think again. The Venezuelan oil infrastructure is so deteriorated that it will take billions and billions of dollars and years and years to get it back on speed.
Years? This is going to be a long-involved risky politically and risky economically for outside investors. So I wouldn't count on oil revenues rising grammatically during the Trump administration. With the final minute that we have left, President Trump has made it very clear he's setting his sights on other countries from Cuba to Colombia, Mexico, Iran.
What will he be watching for in these coming weeks? Well, I think a lot of this is just hot air, but I do think Cuba has reason to worry that if the Maduro regime itself falls, not just Maduro, that the post-Castro regime in Cuba is in trouble. We talked about the Troika of tyranny in the first administration, Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua, and I hope Nicaragua and the Ortega regime are in trouble too. Very quickly.
What about Greenland? He seems very serious. He's got to stop talking about this. And if he ever did take military action against Greenland, it would be the end of the NATO alliance.
No question about it. All right, Ambassador John Bolton has always really appreciated. Joining us, appreciate your insights very much. And thank you for joining us.
We are back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now. There is much more ahead on NBC News Now. I'm Craig Malef. Cheers.
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