Meet the Press NOW — July 27

Welcome to meet the press now. I'm Chuck Todd reporting from Washington a city that has been essentially waiting for a big shoot a drop And it's not dropping at least not today. The reporting suggests that a potential third criminal indictment could be a minute for former president Donald Trump The sources tell me see news that Trump's terms met with prosecutors in the special counsel's office today And we're told to expect an indictment against former president in the special counsel's investigation into his efforts to overturn the 2020 election And of course in January 6th Fallout former president on truth social confirmed that it's attorneys met with DOJ this one He called the meeting productive but said that there was no indication of notice given during the meeting all of this comes It's a grand jury is meeting today But a courtroom deputy told reporters this afternoon go no grand jury's returned indictments today And they don't expect anybody to be returned for the rest of today still it certainly seems likely that something is about to happen soon And the grand jurors haven't left yet for what it's worth last month a similar meeting between Trump's attorneys and the justice department Happened just a few days before Trump himself announced that he'd been indicted for his mishandling of classified documents after he left the White House Here at Hake was outside the special counsel's office in Washington today He joins me now to try to sort of give us some clarity of what and look we were just discussing If we want to simply apply the Jack Smith timeline from before to the Jack Smith timeline to today We shouldn't expect an indictment today. So walk me through that That's right So in the classified documents case we learned kind of after the fact that Donald Trump had been sent a target letter And it was a couple of weeks before anything happened Also, we knew about a meeting with Trump's attorneys that had happened on a Monday It was then that Thursday night that Trump posted on social media that he had been indicted And we didn't see the indictment unsealed and find out any real details about it until the following day So if we're operating on a similar timeline based on the Donald Trump received his target letter And when this meeting happened today was one of the few sort of signpost things we know actually happened I'm shocked they confirmed no indictments in the moment that they did like DOJ has been so hard to get anything public No, it's incredibly frustrating look I think there's an opportunity here for some journalistic humility that this is a secret process by design and despite our best efforts There are things we're not gonna know until the grand jury and the special counsel are ready to tell us or just not and we're living in that space now So compared to last time now that we have enough data points on presidential indictments that we can compare You know look we're still on a target.

Maybe it's next week Maybe it's later than that. There's a million other things that could have been shaken loose by this target letter Which was the first really public element of this investigation that could have changed anything It is notable kind of we've been trying to figure this out that so far It does not appear anybody else has got a target letter for January 6th. That's right an election over turn That in itself is fascinating because We did it is a lot of co-operators That's one indication or would indicate that they don't feel the same pressure to move on other people who might be targets Then they do on Donald Trump who's running for president and could conceivably You know create any number of roadblocks both perceived politically or by winning the election in actuality to his own prosecution Look, Michigan has charged the fake electors in their states. We know at Arizona They're looking into it There are criminal charges to be had out there for prosecutor who wants them perhaps including Jackson Almost makes more sense on the state level for those electric charges I think those are state laws yeah You are you that but if you're also gonna look at this as some kind of grand conspiracy Then you would need multiple conspirators to kind of make that work the fake electors would be in my mind sort of the easiest place to start So how this meeting is essentially perfunctory like anybody who's about to get indicted gets the they get invited in Is it a last chance to provide you information what in theory?

What was this meeting supposed to be there's a couple different ways They could go here either this could have initiated by the Justice Department and special counsel But more likely it was initiated by Donald Trump's attorneys We don't know the answer to that question, but Trump did just add a new defense attorney to his team I guess about a week ago now this guy John Laro and so he needs to get up to speed Maybe he needs to get up to speed look former federal prosecutors have said they have been in the situations in the past where they have had Folks come in and essentially talk their way out of the indictment But it is very rare that said if you're a high-priced defense attorney You may want to be able to tell your client you did every possible thing to talk to the Department of Justice out of this Even if you know it's futile which a target letter often indicates it would be I Know there are sometimes indictments that are sealed and we don't know about them until because I'm a lot of times I Do with foreign criminals. Yeah, where we've seen that any reason to believe he's already been indicted and it's simply sealed I think it's unlikely it's hard to imagine a scenario where a that secret holds this long even in a process We're all looking at it and be why have the meeting today if you've already made this decision to about it What are you gonna do have the meeting change your mind and rip up the indictment and they're now on the record saying hey No, this great jury traditional indictments today, right, right? So then they'd have to go back and what for each and every individual day for the last two weeks since the target letter I just don't see it. Okay.

It's a beat man. It's a little bit. This is quite the beat the indictment beat for Donald Trump Thank you, sir. I'm gonna bring any developments on former president Trump's legal situation as a development trust me as a news organization We're we're we're prepared and we've been prepared But we're gonna turn down to the fragility of our democracy and not just from the Republican presidential front-runner facing criminal charges after interfering in the peaceful transfer of power We're actually turning out of the fragility of our democracy because of something else our rapidly aging American political leadership We got an unsettling reminder of that when Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell had a scary moment yesterday a Capitol Hill freezing up A roughly 20 seconds while addressing reporters before having to be shuffled away by his colleagues The colonel did reappear a few minutes later City was fine his office The minority leader felt lightheaded for a moment and was back on the Senate floor this morning look for anyone following McConnell It appears that the 81 year old has seemed a little less sharp since he fell and was hospitalized for a concussion And broken ribs back in March.

We've now learned that he fell again earlier this month while disembarking a plane and senators today Convert another fall earlier this year when he was in Finland McConnell's Republican colleagues largely defended his fitness today But also called for the leader to be a bit more transparent with his health condition He said he's fine. I take the face value you heard and respond to questions yesterday He was very Christmas in his answers what happened was serving everyone watch that was concerned, but listen Mitch is Mitch is strong. He's stubborn as a mule. Obviously his first responsibility is to the voters of Kentucky But once you become a leader your responsibilities obviously are with other constituents namely at least in his case 48 of his closest friends So so that probably does call for a little more so I should say more call for more transparency than wait for somebody else He should tell us something about something bigger is going on and whatever he tells me I'll trust to be true So none of us were not doctors or medical experts and no good doctor medical expert would even attempt to diagnose on TV Or should but anyone who has a family member at that age knows when you're in your age falls and other health problems are often magnified And can have disastrous impacts and right now there are plenty of folks around 80 in positions of power in America President Biden is 80 and as NBC reported earlier this week The team around him has made adjustments and concessions due to his age in the hopes of avoiding viral moments that would reinforce voter concerns about his Fitness senator dine Feinstein who is 90 was hospitalized earlier this year due to shingles appeared to have her own moment of confusion today When she was asked for her vote in a committee meeting folks The aging of our political leaders is only going to be magnified as we approach 2415 will be seeking another four years in office at the age 82 and as likely rival Donald Trump will be 78 as our friend Charlie Sykes wrote The bulwark following McConnell scary moment yesterday imagine if that had happened to Donald Trump or Joe Biden one trip one fall one One moment when a political leader simply freezes in mid-sentence goes blank and has to be escorted away from the podium for a while Let's check the presidency would be hanging in the balance and ask yourself as well Is either the Democratic Party or Republican Party prepared if something were to happen to their respective leaders?

I want and they should be nobody's irreplaceable But it's not an isolated issue in our current government by the end of this year We're gonna have 16 senators 44 House members and delegates as well as one Supreme Court justice will be 75 years or But I mean now and from Capitol Hill is one of our Capitol Hill correspondence delete circuit and Julie I was surprised today by how many Republican senators were comfortable expressing their concern Obviously about not just concern about Mitch McConnell, but there seemed to be some concern about his ability to leave the conference Chuck there was but not as much as frankly I would expect after a moment like we witnessed yesterday because I talked to lawmakers even ones who weren't always in his corner I'm sure you know exactly who I'm talking about who reserved the right to judgment essentially They said that if and when McConnell feels like he is not up for the job that he will communicate that to the rest of his conference They also largely defended him saying that during lunch which happened just a couple minutes before that press conference He was sharp. He was talking about all sorts of things later in the night last night He addressed major league baseball conference and pretty much every senator that I spoke to today said Oh, yeah We had a conversation with McConnell last night and he's fine Which I think is interesting as well that they were speaking to the leader So all of this of course boils down to this moment of age I'm glad that you talked about all of the other leaders that were watching kind of facing similar issues here But everybody around McConnell close to him everybody around Senator Dianne Feinstein as well trying to blame this blame These momentarily lapses that were seeing from them on them being too busy on church going on that is literally something that the senator told Me today and what a fine sign I had to say after her moment this morning, but all in all it's just going to continue to raise more questions Well, and the staff I mean you hate to put it this way, but the staff they have instead of to say everything is fine That's their job. That's their that's their boss Exactly right and I mean look it's gonna get increasingly harder for these aides to these lawmakers who are aging who are having these issues Because again, this is not a nice-related issue with McConnell though. He is in this position of power They're public and leader.

It's not a nice-related issue with Senator Dianne Feinstein as well We've seen have these repeated moments But their staff are the ones who often come under fire and try to at least reporters to answer our questions as to why this is happening So far I mean really no dice. Well the voters put him there the end of the day That is something that we should remember anyway Julie sir can I capitalize for stually thank you? So join me now and set you a sit on your cheeks as a page Cornell Belcher never credit post for NBC's political news in January senior political correspondent for the National Review You know the joke about the age of the Senate for its Hollings who was the junior senator to strong for 12 decades I think he I think one said there's no better nursing home in America than the United States Senate He was trying to be tongue-in-cheek. We've talked about this a lot But it does seem acute because it's and I think it's because of Biden and Trump because we have two Near-occupied generations and a doctor to join as leaders in two-parties plus she's throwing Mitch McConnell and had Nancy Pelosi still been there We'd have been throwing her under this.

I mean where's the moving to the new generation of leaders? Maybe not quite yet except in the except in the house They have moved to others a lot of people that were waiting for Nancy Pelosi to leave senator Chris Van Hollen At the now secretary of Health and Human Services There could plenty of people who thought they were going to be next. That's true Although when she finally stepped away she didn't wait that she really stepped away I mean she is really letting Jeffries take over as Democratic leaders So that's happened the house that has not happened in the Senate that has not happened at the presidential level And you were saying that the voters put them there and for this these members of Congress for these senators That's who they really need to that's to whom they owe transparency Because that those are the people for whom they basically work now It feels like any time anybody in government has a senior moment. It brings up items problems Biden hasn't had you know, he had the fall but it was sort of immediately that's just a fact of this campaign isn't yeah No, well and and and this how do you lean into that right?

It is and I think what they're starting to do is lean into that experience and and leadership and you can say because of my Experience because of my my years of actually getting this done I can in fact reach across the aisle and get a bipartisan infrastructure bill I can reach across the aisle and get things done so it's leaning into that experience But I mean come on Chuck at some point We got to make room for for younger people at all levels of government and it's increasingly difficult because so many young people say They don't want to get involved in politics now because we have to wait forever You know, I remind people the reason we have the seniority system is because you had a speaker at the house at the end of the 19th century Who was just putting his cronies in so that's why we created seniority But now seniority, you know that it I don't think we don't think it's working We wanted to work you chuck my favorite observation about what we're heading into is it Let's say Joe Manchin decides to run on the no labels ticket He's the youngest candidate in that three percent Finally, I believe he's 76. It is at 70 and so finally the torch is being passed to a new generation of septic generians instead of off your generians Um, no the common thing was scary. I think if you saw that happen to your father or to your grandfather You wouldn't be a few minutes later coming back and saying so you'd be like, you know dad we want to have you check Well, yeah, so say look you're trying to do too much and I'm sorry I think he probably didn't get the rest he needed after he had a concussion because of his job Apparently he recently fell at national airport When you get to that age you fall the odds of a concussion get worse odds of broken bones Look, maybe it was nothing. It was dehydration dizziness something like that It can happen but you'd want somebody to check out and I would really would have liked to have seen McConnell do this contrast With Trump and with Biden and say here's my doctor.

Here's my doctor say talk to my doctor We had pictures of Reagan's hemorrhoids back in the 1980s. There was this effort, right? Yeah, remember that Michael Divers Susan would they would they made sure it was I remember like we like I think Tom Broke I'd say look you we're gonna show a picture of his colon like, you know, you're right We're seeing more of the president than we ever seen before But it is something they realized they didn't want that to be coming issue Well in transparency is the cure to speculation, right? So they ought to be transparent.

There ought to be more information. Remember that you just a brief who's that guy? Dr. Altman who worked for the New York Times and candidates would feel obliged to get interviewed to him and give their medical records.

So medical records went to him and he would write about whether there was anything to be concerned about He just closed them off as he did on many things. He was very transparent That is so reassuring and so but we've gotten out of the habit of that with Trump and with Biden as well Well, and there's also this sort of I don't know what to call it It's a virus of older politicians believing they're replaceable. Okay. I don't know no one else can do this You know McConnell I'm sure people have told no no because you're the one that's keeping you're the guardian of the gates and no one else can Replace you Trump with Trump isn't no one else can beat Trump Joe Biden, right?

Is that a do we need to set age limits in order to cure that disease? No, cuz ultimately I think the people should set age limits like It's what you said. I mean the voters of Kentucky They put him in office and by the way he delivers a lot for this So so they get something they get something out it as opposed to capping it I'm much more interested in reforms that get more young people involved in it and by the way why are more young people I find the age minimums the more you actually think about it kind of absurd and ridiculous now We have decided you young men are not worthy of the United States Senate so you're 35 Yes, yes, but at the same time 30 But at the same time what we should want 25 and 30 year olds to get ball politics But there's cynicism about politics now the system broken and more and more and more of them are turning away from politics And yet our health care system. We're gonna have a lot of very productive people in their 80s There's a lot of people who are really productive in there So I do wonder if this is if there's gonna be some ages up here So there's old and there's sprightly and you've got a certain energy level and you seem to be doing fine And then there's old Biden in that meeting with Herzog look terrible hunched over speaking very softly mumbling Chuck Grassley does get a lot of these questions Chuck Grassley if you talk about his age people challenge you to a push-up contest And he will beat you and he will make fun of you for not being able to do that So if you can keep it up fine There are older guys and older gals who keep up pretty well five years ago You didn't have nearly as many questions about dying in Feinstein or ten years ago And that's what that's the one that I guess that's the issue Susan is that we've all and you know unfortunately We've all had these personal experiences where everything's fine until it is at a certain age and one moment one trip and fall On a staircase and you're like what happened at grandpa?

No, not one moment with these candidates These politicians these both in both of these cases there have been a series of moments that have raised questions And you know Feinstein had a lot of questions last time she ran for election and the voters put her back in there Uh, maybe that was the right thing to tell you one quick thing Yeah, no, no, cuz I wanted to turn it a little bit I want to bring it back to the politics that it why so much of politics is broken So we have all these leaders who are in their 70s or older Chuck, you know when you look at Gen Z and the millennials that potentially they're the largest one block in this in the country right now Goodbye and and none of the leadership looks like that And so when they look at sort of issues like environment say well Why aren't my issues being talked about we are spending so much time in our politics talking about the issues of boomers and not about these young But in theory this should make the vice presidency a little bit more where the voters are going to be scrutinizing BP's Absolutely my assumption is that Kamala Harris begins every day knocking on the door. Joe. How you feeling? Okay, just checking, you know But she's gonna get scrutinized Republicans are already using her so Kamala Harris and they all use it as well She's really the person that's you we really think Joe Biden is gonna be president in the United States 86 years old and it is what you should see gonna be in the action say yes, yes, believe it or not Once you hit you're likely to make it I'm not asking will his heart be beating I mean will he be in a situation where you're okay with him handling some crisis like Russia and you crazy or so This will increase scrutiny on whoever less than Trump's a nominee I don't absolutely I don't think you're dabbling in Kerry Lake land.

That's right because he's a certain age as well So yeah, that they'll be scrutiny of the vice presidents They'll be questions raised do these can do these candidates talk to their vice presidents about the possibility that they will take over and I bet you They do not I mean, you know wouldn't you love to be Trump's vice president because the odds of another second mob trying to kill you? I've got to be pretty small, right? Let's go. What is the same thing?

You have a separate question for Trump like okay, am I putting my life? No, you're like my life. Mr. Trump how likely is it that at some point you'll go irked and try to get angry mom He'll be 50 a little less right is that but you know that Kamala Harris's team does know that there is more scrutiny coming in She does seem to want to okay.

I'm gonna I'll lean in more your team Biden. You just lean into this. Well, you have no choice I mean, I think she is unique and it's really because one we've never seen a woman They're and we certainly not seen a woman of color in that place and I'll let women talk about the difficulty of cracking the ceiling And how they're scrutinized different than we men at this table are that said if you look at her schedule this week in the last Last week she is out there doing a campaign events and meeting people in a way that typically would see But I was just gonna say I've noticed that too and I've been wondering when we'd see more This is a change from the beginning of the presidency And I think they just I think she decided she wanted to do more because she was getting bad reviews And I think they decided they didn't have a choice to not have her be out there and have her be scrutinized That is reality into the conversation. She might as well participate exactly I was gonna say if you look back to 2019 there was a decent amount of talk about Biden's gonna be one term president He'll pass the torch and then he might not run for a second Obviously, he is I find it interesting that I've yet to hear a single liberal colonists a single Democrat Well-maker so you know what Biden should do one term It's not I think you're right four years ago.

We thought that would have happened is that fair point? No Susan somehow we need ages of money and I'll be back off in that a little bit Anyway, thank you guys for your come up run on the road again Ronda Santas is back in the trail after presidential hopeful fired more than a third of staff major campaign shake up live And I went X plus a young democracy and a key U.S. partner in the war on terror He's now in crisis soldiers in the West African nation of Niger have thrown their support behind a military coup that they say has stripped the Democratic elected president of power. We're gonna live report from Niger's capital city.

You're watching the press now Welcome back for the governor round of Santas is back on the trail in Iowa trying to see if he can get some momentum After just a series of setbacks for his campaigns most recent being having to lay off a side Portion of his campaign staff already campaigns been downsized by nearly half cutting 40% of the staff have been concerns about campaign spending Campaign has also fired had a fire staffer who tweeted out Nazi imagery The sentence being while I was picked to fight with a Republican member of his own states congressional delegation criticizing Congress for my McDonald's Who has door strum after he pushed back very lightly mind you on the state's new teaching standards Which claim that slaves benefited from skills learned and slavery Donald's called on Florida's Department of Education to quote correct this But he called on the correction after praising everything else they did and the dissent this folks went after him like he was Kamala Harris gave good ears as a court on Iowa ahead of the distances campaign stop tonight and gave it's it's obviously a A campaign that's trying to get its sea legs back I mean it seems like they can't they can't get good press whether it's Rupert Murdoch's New York Post whether it's a somebody else's X Twitter feed whatever we're calling it What's it look like on the ground? I've seen some photos of not too many people waiting for him Yeah, Chuck with this reboot governor DeSantis though is still staying with some of those culture war issues You mentioned this battle you now has with congressman Donald's who of course was a former ally and is Pushback as you said very lightly on this issue on african-american teaching standards I want to get to some sound from governor DeSantis It's a short time ago responding for the first time on camera to those criticisms over those standards think of us So the end of the day you got to choose are you gonna side with Kamala Harris and liberal media outlets? Are you gonna side with the state of Florida and I think it's very clear that these guys did a good job on those standards? It wasn't anything that was politically motivated.

These are serious scholars You've seen dr. Allen out on TV talking about the stories talking about his own family history and everything like that So don't side with Kamala on that stand up for your state and Chuck look the governor doubling down on that particular issue But when I get to the larger issue which you which you which you mentioned Candace campaign actually reboot after laying off so much of its staff burning through cash And actually the governor's already had two events today You see right behind me his uh his never back down bus of course a super pack that's aligned with governor DeSantis This was an event where better do some retail politicking he spoke with us and families some kids he ships on hand He headed some goats with candidates typically do here in Iowa But earlier today there was another event which yes as you said very sparsely attended Just a few dozen people in the room was extremely small of course We have been hearing for several weeks now that the campaign plans to focus on these more intimate settings Of course could just mean that they're really trying to save money But certainly difficult days in the DeSantis campaign as it really tries to zero in on those early states Iowa today and tomorrow Yeah, and New Hampshire early next week. Hey, is it a bit confusing that the super pack doing the events and then the campaign Provides the candidate is that how this works out here? And is it sort of awkward how they interact?

Yeah, certainly and look there are questions about the communication between the super pack and and the um and the actual campaign But yes the events today organized by never back downs. That's super pack and yes governor DeSantis showed up here He was just here for a few minutes and you know They tried to get some access to the press to get him video of shaking some hands slightly more access and we've had before But this is a you know a dance you know doubling between what's going on with the super pack and then also from the campaign The campaign itself has been the one that has been really hitting back hard against Congress and Donald's Dave your air is on the trail and lovely Iowa Can I wait till you're to get your review of the state fair my friends? Do not miss that if you've never been gay get there anyway, thank you sir up next how a coup in Niger could derail us efforts in the war on terror This is to come a proxy fight with the Russians gonna take you live to the West African nation or the attempted military coup is underway right now And we're on the ground don't go anywhere watch the question Welcome back doesn't get a lot of attention But Niger is an important security part of the United States in West Africa And it's been seen as a lynchman for the spread of democracy and Western values in the region and sadly things are spiraling into crisis in Niger After a day of uncertainty in the country a group of soldiers appeared on state television claiming they have overthrown the democratically elected president and have taken control of the government citing deteriorating security situation and bad economic governance meanwhile gunfire and protest erupted in the capital city with supporters of the Coos setting fire to the ruling party said quarters But president by zoom seems to be standing firm with the u.s. State Department this afternoon saying he is still the president of that country right now The attempted coup of Niger's president who oversaw the country's first peaceful transfer of power since gaining independence from France is now Raising concerns about the broader security situation in the region and is also drawing international condemnation the UN secretary general expressed his full solidarity with president Of a zoom and called for his immediate release and this our secretary state and to the blink and say he spoke with president of a zoom today and remains actively engaged with Niger's democratically elected government now this attempted coup follows a string of successful military who's including a neighboring countries Molly Burkino Fosso and chat so joining me now is our Pentagon correspondent Courtney to be who's been in Niger and in Vimba Pezo Dezolele He's the director of the Africa program at the Center for Strategic International Studies He's gonna give us a lot more context about u.s.

Strategy there, but I want to start with you Courtney I'm glad you're there for reporting purposes. We can't wait to have your home and I know you can't wait to get home What's the situation? What's the latest that you're able to ascertain on the ground? So it's really hard to tell I mean everything from who's actually in charge here We saw this video last night that you mentioned that included a bunch of different military leaders here It was a cross-section of people from the National Guard the army even the special operations forces and even someone from the presidential guard who are the initial Group who took the president into custody or detention yesterday at the presidential palace, but it's not clear who's actually in charge here And I will say the curfew has just gone into effect here.

It does seem tonight that it's that more people are abiding by it We saw even just last night that's what this group announced a curfew nationwide a nationwide ground stop of all air traffic civilian and military aircraft That's all aircraft and they closed the borders for at least a week or so But it's not really clear if that even could be extended so what we see today here in the Capitol What we know is that unlike the protests yesterday Which were really focused around the presidential palace area and seemed to be people who were protesting the president's detention today It's the protest much work first of all were much bigger They were around the National Assembly which is not too far from there Not in the direct area of the the palace area and they seemed to be in protesting against the Democratic elected president and in favor of this ruling military group And it was they were a lot more fired up. They said a lot of cars on fire that were smoking the air here today for some time And they many of them were unfurling Russian flags. It's not really clear why that is we've spoken with officials here for several days Now there's no indication that Wagner is behind this at this point But you know we also know that Vladimir Putin held this Russia Africa summit today And one of the things they talked about was whether Russia would be able to somehow help to restore calm here I will say you know the streets here right now have quiet down probably because of the curfew But there's no sense of of any kind of real uprising except for over where the protests have been According you have a sense of our military presence does it disappear if it appears president bazoom is not going to retain power So this is the big question if we start hearing the US talk about this as a coup or a military coup That triggers this US law that will immediately force them to stop providing most of the aid now a lot of that will include the US military Training mission and that's why we're here Chuck we came to see how the US military is working with the Nigerian military to fight these this growing presence of terror networks not just in Niger here But sort of in this whole West Africa including coastal West Africa area and you mentioned Niger is a lynch pit And the reason for that is a lot of these the two main groups are they really converge on this area here It's an ISIS affiliate and al-Qaeda affiliate. They're converging on this area the Nigerian military has been a good partner to the US And trying to combat that terror network the concern here is if this is a military coup If there's if the president democratically elected president is actually ousted a lot of that aid and a lot of this military presence here is gonna End by law, right?

All right, Courtney. Well, I hope we get you out Quicker than a week there if that's the latest situation, but please stay safe and thank you for that reporting Let me see if we can get more context here with my expert guest here. Mr. Dazelelele Let me start with that disturbing report that protesters today supporting the coup were unfurling Russian flags Does that surprise you?

I Chuck it's a pleasure to join you today. It doesn't surprise me in all these protests We've been seeing across the continent. There's always somebody unfurling a Russian flag and so on and it's very hard to know what to make of it There are people in these countries who read everything that we read have a certain nostalgia for for Russia Especially in countries bordering countries where the Wagner group is present Mm-hmm. Sometimes they get the sense that the Wagner group is doing something good for those countries We saw this in Burkina Faso, but I'll not read too much into it at this point I mean people can With any flag they want up to send all kind of messages at this point I'm not too much into it.

What's your sense of what the the military is involved in here because it's interesting the US has a good Relationship with the Nigerian military, but if their leaders are involved in this coup this sort of you know It's almost as if the US is that it's not a couple of place of the US to be it looks like we're helping train the people who help do the coup here What's your understanding of the situation? It's always challenging for the United States because in the US There are so many laws that to trigger reaction to this kind of things and this way to see Secretary of State Antonio Blinken Struggling to to define this as a coup because it is an attempt to take a power by force and so on I think in the case of Niger, Niger is so important It's one of those countries that are still standing in the region trying to bring into democracy But it's also very important because of the location, you know We always talk about location location location. This is equally important when you fighting you fighting terrorism Niger borders, Chad, it borders Libya, it borders Algeria, it borders, it borders, it borders, all of them are going to a lot of time So the US cannot really afford to leave Niger regardless of the outcome of this event now I think the US will continue to find a way to work with the Nigerian army But I think it's also important that we understand that even when we talk about democracy That's not enough Mali used to be a democracy I think the United States that is in the West we invest so much on the security front So the security side of the ledger gets so much money, so much attention We don't do the same in building democracy, democratic institutions We don't do the same in putting money in the social welfare of the populations So there's a major gap, I've always said If a country like Niger, which is democracy and democratic experience, so it comes to like Mali When you say democracy, where in Eastern Europe, they would have received a lot of support That does not happen when it comes to Africa We talk one thing, we work a different thing And that's problematic The Eastern European example is a terrific one, the amount of non-military aid that we would send over Versus versus what is there, let me ask you this What is your sense of the population in Niger? Are they unhappy with their leaders?

Is it possible they are supporting this coup? Populations in Niger, populations in the entire band with bandswaf that we call this a hell Are they unhappy with the political establishment at large? Not because they don't like democracy or anything Or not like they have a personal beef against these leaders But the system is not delivering People in the education, people need jobs And that is not fair Let's look at the case of Niger, Niger is the world's seventh largest producer of uranium Very important for very important material But they don't get the revenue that they deserve to survive on a daily basis That is problematic, Niger has one of the highest fertility rates in the world They still do not get the revenue they need for the few resources that have Very important resources, France has been a colonial power there France gets a lot of the uranium from Niger But they don't pay the equivalent of what Niger expects That is also a serious gap that is causing a lot of these challenges Really, glad to have you on, Mr. Daze Olele I really appreciate it, I think we don't cover this enough And I'm thankful we had somebody there on the ground to bring the story, surface it better And you've given it some context that's really needed, appreciate it Thank you, John, thank you, thank you, John, appreciate it After the break, why today's new GDP report is easing recession fears The Fed raised rates again, high level in more than two decades But it's at the last raise, we will see this year I love the latest on the economy next, watch me press out The staff now has a noticeable slowdown in growth starting later this year in the forecast But given the resilience of the economy recently, they are no longer forecasting for recession Welcome back, that was the chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell yesterday suggesting that a recession is not necessarily imminent anymore It's a view that's been backed up by a report from the Commerce Department today That our gross domestic property GDP grew at a faster than expected 2.4% of space Last quarter, fourth consecutive quarter of growth after we had those two quarters of deaths Commerce Department also reported today that durable goods orders It is for purchases like new cars and appliances rose 4.7% last month That was much higher than expected And today's reports come amid several pieces of good economic news in recent weeks Including the cooling of inflation And most importantly improved consumer confidence It's all evidence that the economy may be an asset Not a liability for President Biden as he heads into an election year Steve Lee Smith, CNBC's senior economic reporter and more importantly the Unofficial criminal analogous, I guess, of the Federal Reserve speak And that's really why I want to talk to you about this, Steve, which is It was interesting, what is the likelihood now?

We're not going to get rate cuts this year, I get that But at this point, is it a 50-50 possibility that we're done with rate hikes for the rest of the calendar year? I mean, I think that's where I would put it actually check the market has its 60-40 against hiking So that's the precise number in the futures market So look, it's all going to come down to the inflation numbers Powell is not going to stand on an aircraft carrier at this moment with the words mission accomplished behind him He's not ready to do that He's been burned a couple times the American people haven't burned a couple times We saw, I don't know if you remember inflation coming down at the beginning of this year that it sparked back up So he's a little gun shy when it comes to inflation and he wants to see it several months in a row becoming down There's a sense, by the way, check going back to the 70s that the Fed kind of abandoned the effort in the middle And didn't sit there and kind of like, what's the right way to put it? Poor enough buckets of water on the fire He's going to be a park ranger here rather than you might go, but one bucket of water Park ranger is going to pour five buckets of water on it So while he may not raise anymore the idea of this thing getting cut anytime soon Let me put it this way The next time we see a rate cut is that when we start to see a flashing yellow sign of an economic downturn? No, not necessarily So the Fed has raised rates to a level that believes to be restricted or to restrain the economy As inflation comes down, the Fed doesn't have to be quite as restrictive Assuming it does come down If inflation comes down, then the Fed can actually ease back on rates Just to keep sort of less restraint on the economy You don't think about it here, you're holding back a horse, you're using another metaphor At some point you can let that horse run, you don't have to hold him back Right now the Fed is trying to hold on to those rates, keep the economy for being too hot Now the numbers it got today, that 2.4% GDP was maybe not all that helpful On the one hand they like to see growth, you like to see the economy growing, business spending And consumers spending But you want the economy running a little bit below potential to create slack and reduce the heat in the economy Let me ask you this You have your pub, you have your version, you guys do the second best poll in American media After the NBC News poll After you guys, right But dirty little thing, we use the same pollsters But the economic pessimism in your poll versus the reality of the data versus consumer confidence Give me your read, is the perception of the economy improving or not?

So Biden's numbers in our last party, economic numbers were up a bit Some of the indications on the economy, the outlook was up a bit They're still kind of lousy, they're not wonderful And my explanation is this is that inflation really is the most important thing out there for the American public And it's not the inflation rate, that's the problem here Americans probably don't even know what the rate of inflation is Here's what they know They know that eggs are more expensive, they know that gas even though it's down Is somewhat more expensive, they know that things are more expensive What they want to see to be more comfortable is they want things to be more affordable That all that they can do is focus on the rate of inflation, set the interest rate, try to restrain the economy What I think the public wants before it feels fully good about the economy and positive Is they want to see prices come down Steve Lee Smith Uh, the man that I've always started to try to understand, thank you sir, good to talk to you Still sir, we got some new economic and political turmoil in China Obviously it's an opaque place sometimes But the world's second largest economy faces rising on employment rates, particularly among its youth Mounding questions over what happened to its foreign minister Is the foreign minister getting scapegoated for their economic issues? You're watching me press now Welcome back after the abrupt removal of its foreign minister, Xin Gong China's foreign ministry seems to be trying to erase any mention of him Wiping him from the website completely and sparking increased intrigue about Beijing's opaque political system According to the New York Times, China's foreign ministry spoke for some called the speculation Malicious height, but was anybody answered dozens of questions about Xin And the official transcript of the briefing omitted any question about Xin Raising even more questions No reason was given for Chen's ouster Just seven months into his tenure But it comes after he had not been seen publicly for weeks Including canceling a meeting with the EU's foreign policy chief And missing a diplomatic summit of Southeast Asian nations The sum up within China's political system comes as Beijing is facing its own economic challenges Its post-COVID economy saw, youth on employment is through the roof The job was right among people aged 16 to 24 reached a record high of 21.3% last month And that's according to the Chinese government, there's some estimates that it's double that Joining me on set is Dean Chang Senior advisor with the China program at the US Institute of Peace Uh, Dean thanks for coming in So let's start with what's going on with the foreign ministry first Uh, bringing back Wang Yi, a former foreign minister, you were just telling me He's more powerful than ever, walk me through that So he is not only now the foreign minister But he, uh, just before he stepped into that position He headed the party's central foreign affairs department So really in the Chinese system, the party in many ways trumps the state So now we have combined in the person of Wang Yi, both the state position, foreign minister Probably he will become state councilor if Chen Gong completely disappears And he has the party, so he gets a set policy and implement policy And he, the last time he was foreign minister, he was not in this role in the bullet bureau, correct? No, he was not, that was Yang Jiech, so um, who has now basically stepped aside and retired So if he's got much, this much power And frankly, he was there during a much more peaceful time with the United States What should we read into this? Let's remember that when he was foreign minister, China began its wolf warrior diplomacy When you had Chinese ambassadors lecturing the French and the Swedes, etc So I don't think what we're going to see is a stepping back If anything Wang Yi is probably going to be as hardline as he was before Interesting Is there, because there's a little bit of the economic situation She's under some pressure here, this is all his calls I look at their relationship with the West is causing their economic problems That's why is there anything to connect these two things?

Well, I don't want, let's be honest, we don't really know what happened to Chen Gong So it's possible that it's personal issues, it's possible that there's internal scandals And it's possible that this is powerful Could he be scapegoat, that's what I was asking Is he being set up to be the scapegoat for what? Well, given that Chen's rise was attributed to Xi Jinping Making him the scapegoat is certainly a possibility She is saying it's not my fault, it's this guy However, I think that much more likely is that we're seeing some other issues developing on the economic side That are separate from Qing's rise or fall The reports about youth unemployment I mean, if you were to look at if he looks at his domestic security situation I'd look at nearly 50% of youth unemployment, which is one estimate We're not Chinese governments, there's one thing And would think that is a worrying sign for me because the youth could come out after me Absolutely And the Chinese figures when we had access to them indicated China actually spent more on internal security than external security That should be very sobering, all those new aircraft carriers, stealth fighters and all that And the military was in second place To whatever domestic surveillance and things like that Exactly And the reason for that is exactly what you're referring to It is the reality that you have a lot of unhappy people in China Whether it's unemployed youth, people who are watching property values Evaporate and people who are suffering under corrupt and mismanaged local leadership Right So what does this mean for, I mean, look, the fact is You know, it's ironic, some of our economic woes have to do with the tariffs We've been putting on in this war with China We've not brought those back, but those have also impacted there What do you expect? Do you expect an attempt at a reset? I think what we've seen from the Chinese National People's Congress Is a lot of words to that effect But there's no indication Xi Jinping is actually prepared to do the kind of hard economic reforms Which would have to involve him letting go of some of that centralized power What would that look like?

I mean, what is it? Is there an idea that he might actually take that he would release something? No, I mean, realistically it would be things like, for example, allowing people to travel More freely within China so that you could put labor where it needs to be It means basically Because I saw young people won't take teaching jobs in certain regions for fear They can't come back to their home city Exactly War in other cases because the local areas aren't willing to take people from the countryside And are preferring their own locals Another piece of this is that state-owned enterprises would have to be held responsible And basically have to show a profit Instead, right now they have open access to Chinese state-run banking to meet their bottom line A lot of chatter in the foreign policy world of media Overpassed peak China What would you say? I'm old enough to remember when we had already hit peak oil Okay And we are now consuming and producing more oil than we ever did China is still 1.2 1.3 billion people And I think it's a little presumptuous to count out a 5,000-year-old civilization Is it better to say it's more peace sheet?

That could be And frankly, I would rather be Joe Biden than Xi Jinping in terms of the problems confronting I don't want to make it seem as if it's a democracy But there's something about third-terms Anybody, you look at people that try third-terms end up regretting a third-term Absolutely And because eventually it catches up with you And there's no one else who's going to be held responsible If you've been in power I was just going to say he is nobody else who can lay this on anyone This is all his people, this is all him now Never underestimate the power of a state-owned press to change reality But certainly realistically speaking a whole lot of people in China say I'm not better off under you now Is there a sense of where is he right now? When it comes to bringing back one, what I'm curious about Is that something that he decided to do or the polar bear told me how to do? No, I think at this point, especially after the most recent congress, he runs the polar bear But the reality of Xi Jinping has gotten on a tighter he cannot get off of If he tries to step down, which he's not going to All those people he has offended with his anti-corruption efforts and all that Are going to have their knives? He's done his purge, hasn't he?

There has been an ongoing purge since he took office in 2012 He changed from the U.S. Institute of Peace Boy, the brain power there gets better and better Thanks for coming, appreciate you all for being with us this hour I'll be back tomorrow with more of Meet the Pressing Out NBC News now coverage continues with Hallie Jackson