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Welcome to Meet the Press. Now, I'm Kristen Welker in Washington. As the focus of the political world right now is on. South Florida, where Donald Trump is set to be arraigned in a federal courthouse in Miami.
Less than 24 hours from now on, 37 felony counts tied as mishandling of classified documents. This was a scene just a few moments ago as the former president arrived at his club in Ralph, Florida, where he'll spend the night. Mr. Trump landed in Miami less than 90 minutes ago following a weekend of fiery remarks, lashing out at the charges f facing him.
Lashing out at President Biden, at the Justice Department, and at special counsel Jack Smith. The ridiculous and baseless indictment of me by the Biden administration's weaponized Department of injustice will go down as among the most horrific abuses of power in the history of our country. Many people said that Democrats have even said it. This vicious persecution is a travesty of justice.
These criminals cannot be rewarded. They must be defeated. You have to defeat them. Have to defeat them because in the end, they're not coming after me, they're coming after you.
And I'm just standing in their way. Here I am, I'm standing in their way and I always will be. Law enforcement officials, meanwhile, are ramping up security around the courthouse. The former president is calling for protests.
And we have seen some isolated instances of highly incendiary rhetoric online and from some of his fiercest offenders. But so far, there don't appear to be any plans for violence or large scale disruptions. This afternoon, the mayor of Miami spoke to reporters as the city braces for tomorrow's events. We obviously believe in the Constitution, believe that people should have the right to express themselves.
But we also believe in law and order, and we know that. And we hope that tomorrow will be peaceful. We encourage people to be peaceful in them demonstrating how they feel. And we're going to have the adequate forces necessary to ensure that.
Now, some major questions loom ahead of tomorrow, including who will represent the former president. Court sources tell ABC News it's still unclear if he's found local counsel which could throw revenge in some of the proceedings. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump has seen no shortage of defenders on Capitol Hill and on the campaign shell.
That includes House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who answered reporters questions about the incident for the first time. The indictment for the first time today, the idea of equal justice is not playing out here. And so that's a real concern to all Americans. As Americans, we have to have a justice system where the lady of justice wears blindfolds.
A blindfold. What we see today across this nation under Joe Biden's leadership is a double standard. That double standard is both un American and unacceptable. And I do believe, Georgia, most people on my side of the aisle believe when it comes to Donald Trump, there are no rules and you can do the exact same thing or something very similar as a Democrat and nothing happens to you.
Join me now is NBC justice intelligence correspondent Candelanian outside that Miami courthouse? NBC's Gutierrez is outside the former president's Doral Golf Club. Also with us is NBC's Brandy Zardrosni and former U.S. attorney and NBC legal analyst Joyce Vance.
Thanks to all of you for being here. Can I have to start with you? What are you expecting from tomorrow's arraignment? And you have some new reporting about an issue that could potentially cause a delay.
Can tell us about it? Yeah. Hey, Kristen. First of all, on the security side, we're seeing lots of preparations here.
A lot more security officers today than over the weekend, many more barricades. But no evidence of protesters. And our colleagues Julie Ainsley and Mike Kozner have just reported that the FBI and DHS aren't seeing any credible threats or anything they need to worry about. So that's good news in terms of the issue you're talking about.
We are not aware. I was told earlier today that Donald Trump needs local council in order to proceed with the arraignment portion of tomorrow's proceedings. The first appearance, the surrender, first appearance for a magistrate can happen without that. But he needs local counsel to do the arraignment where he makes a plea and waives reading the indictment.
It's another step in the process. And as of right now, I'm told that he doesn't have local counsel that have filed to represent him in this case. Now, it's puzzling because he does have Florida lawyers with Florida bar cards that work with him. For example, Lindsey Halligan is one of.
I was told there was some concern about whether the arraignment can move forward. And we've not heard back from the Trump folks about what the situation is about. Certainly some uncertainty looming over tomorrow's what will be historic events. Ken, while you continue to track that angle, what are you expecting as it relates to Walt Nata, one of his aides, who obviously is implicated in this?
Will he appear? Yeah, he's got the same issue. He does have local counsel here. We know his attorney, stan Woodward, his D.C.
based attorney, who's been paid for through a Trump public lashing committee, is expected to come down here as well. But he would, he would. He is a co defendant in this matter. So he would be in the courtroom with Donald Trump, as our understanding, facing the similar proceedings.
He has to surrender. He has to be processed by the marshals and the FBI and then go into court for a first appearance. That's what we're expecting. Both of those men together in the courtroom.
Okay, let me turn to you. You've been tracking some of the rhetoric that we're hearing from the former president. What specifically stands out to you? He's obviously been pretty active on social media since the indictment.
Yeah, President, look, the former president is once again calling for protests here in South Florida. He did clarify this morning that it meant civil and peaceful protests. But person, this is all from ST Playbook I saw a couple of months ago. You'll recall that when just before he was indicted in Lower Manhattan in that Hutchmoney case, he warned a potential death and destruction back then and he called him in supporters of protests there.
There was not a Huge turnout among Trump supporters in the case in lower Manhattan here in Doral. We did see several dozen supporters gathered here just a short time ago this afternoon as we saw the former president and his motorcade drive right by right behind us and he'll overnight here at his golf course and resort. But we have been tracking with the former president calling for protest, but is insisting that he hopes it will be peaceful. And Gabe, of course, this comes against the backdrop of the 2024 campaign heating up in the wake of the indictment in New York.
We saw the former president's poll numbers go up. I've been talking to my sources inside Trump world. They say this is yet another moment that's going to benefit him. What are you hearing?
Yeah, look, in the, in the short time after this indictment was unsealed on Friday, the Trump team has really been trying to fundraise all of this considerably. We have been speaking with several of his supporters here who say that they are fired up, that this is motivating them to come out and make their voices heard. And over the weekend, the former president was asked about that on the campaign trail in Georgia tas. They come to me, how do you stand this?
And I usually look at him, say in a sick way, I sort of enjoy it because it exposes them. It exposes them for what they are. And it's also lifted the poll numbers to even higher legs. Have you seen this?
The polls are through the roof. And the fundraising, small dollar fundraising, is setting records. And a question that pressed out during a speech in North Carolina over the week of that same sentiment. The former president trying to make it seem like he is looking forward to this fight, a fight that he hopes will translate into even better poll numbers and more enthusiasm, among his most hardcore.
And of course, what's been so notable is the reaction from his Republican rivals. For the most part, they are attacking the Justice Department and kind of sidestepping the issue of what is in this indictment, what the former president is charged with. With exception of Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson, talk a little about that response that we're seeing from his rivals on the campaign trail. You're right, Kristen.
Chris Christie Hutchinson, one of the two of the few of the Republicans have actually come out and spoken out against this indictment. Very few Republicans have talked about the substance of it. The way they see it. They're more trying to make the argument that this is a political prosecution, that, you know, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden have not been prosecuted.
Then they see that the former president should now be prosecuted and that's an argument we heard repeated over and over again this afternoon as we've been speaking with Trump supporters here in Doral every last time about the specifics of the allegations, the sweeping 37 count indictment and the evidence laid out so far by the Justice Department. They don't want to get into those details. They really turn around and say, look, this prosecution should not be happening in the first place. But certainly person on the GOP primary campaign trail, his top rival, Governor Ron DeSantis, lasting the justice Department over the weekend.
But again, not speaking to the specifics as laid out in the indictment, House Republicans saying, and we expect that to continue as Republicans circle the wagons around Donald Trump, again, not commenting on the specifics of this indictment, just making the overall case that he should not have been prosecuted in the first place. And Brandy, you've been tracking, of course, all of this online. And as Gabe has been talking about, some of his rhetoric has been quite fiery online. Is it resonating with his supporters?
What are you seeing? Hey, yeah, for sure. It's really resonating with some of his supporters. You know, some of his supporters on social media, especially the more French sites like his own site, True Social, they're angry.
They truly believe when he says they're not coming for me, they're coming for you, and I'm just standing in their way. And so they're calling for people to come protest in Miami. Some are saying they're going to come armed. And there's also some chatter on right wing spaces urging people to buy guns for a second civil war or just to enact some sort of generic violence for this indictment of Trump.
You know, it's important to say that there's no, not on January 6th. There's a credible threat. Right. We saw it over and over and over again on social media and we're not seeing that now.
But when you have this sort of incendiary language from Trump and his allies, influencers, Charlie Kirk, Carrie Lake, his own sons and their partners, what that does and what that has the threat to do, researchers tell us, is really light up people who are predisposed to violence anyway, like what we saw when Paul Pelosi was attacked or what we saw with the intended breach in 2022 of the FBI Cincinnati office. And so that's what we're a little more wary of at this moment, this sort of lone wolf violence of people who are turned on and not necessarily what we saw on January 6th. Well, I think it's so important that you make that distinction, Brandy, and I guess I would ask you to make one more. Does this compare?
How does it compare to what we. After he was indicted in New York, it's very, very similar to that. Yes. We're seeing a lot of, like it was just said, calls to donate.
Right. This is another attack on the president. Donate fast. Come support us.
And so we're seeing a lot of these general threats, like I mentioned before, about coming armed and getting ready for something that's supposed to happen. But it seems far more likely. And hopefully what we're going to see tomorrow will look a lot more like what we saw in April Manhattan, when Trump appeared before that New York criminal court, which was really not much, a bunch of sort of wild supporters, some influencers. It was more of a spectacle than anything that law enforcement may be there for.
Yeah, I was outside of the courthouse in Manhattan and there were some protesters, but certainly nothing got out of control. Brandi and Ken and Gabe, thank you so much. Joyce, I want to turn to you now and talk about the legal aspect and what the former president is actually facing. I want to start off by playing what former President Trump's then Attorney General, Bill Barr said about the.
This happened just yesterday. Take a look. I was shocked by the degree of sensitivity of these documents and how many there were, frankly. I do think that even half of what Andy McCarthy said, which even half of it is true, then he's toast.
I mean, it's a pretty. It's a very detailed indictment and it's very, very damning. And this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt, is ridiculous. Those documents are the most sensitive secrets the country has.
They have to be in custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them. Joyce, what do you think of what we heard from the former attorney general? He says this is damning.
Trump could be toast. So it's a persuasive argument that Bill Barr is making because it's grounded in the truth, and the truth is set forth in the allegations in the indictment. These aren't just assertions that are being made. They come with tapes, they come with photographs, they come back by witness testimony.
And the scope and the detail in this indictment is unusual and it's powerful. Barr is talking in large part about the allegations that Support the first 31 charges against the former president. Each one of those charges relates to a separate document, in most cases, top secret or otherwise, highly sensitive, that were wrongfully in Trump's possession. And when you look at the descriptions, what jumps out at you is nuclear secrets or documents that relate to intelligence from five Eyes, our most sensitive intelligence partners.
These are indeed the nation's most important secrets that were strewn around in bathrooms and ballrooms at Mar a Lago. It is a very strong criminal case. And Joyce, we know that based on this indictment, he shares this information with at least one person and says, look, if I were president, I would have been able to declassify this document. Unfortunately, I'm not so president, so it cannot be declassified.
How significant is that from a legal perspective? Well, it's extraordinarily significant because it undercuts any defense that this was an inadvertent possession of documents or that he didn't realize that they were classified. And in the two instances where he's captured in the indictment sharing documents with other people, one is the now well publicized incident involving Mark Meadows biographers, and the other is something we learned about for the first time in the indictment. It's the Bedminster episode involving someone who's visiting him in connection with one of his packs.
And in both cases, he's evidencing knowledge that these are classified materials that cannot be shared. You know, there's no more I dream of genie, the sense of magical declassification. This is a defendant who knows he did something the law forbade. And that will be some very formidable evidence at trial if this case gets that far.
You know, Bill Barr in that same interview also said he thinks that the Espionage Acts charges are also on solid ground. Walk us through the significance of those charges. 31 of the 37 charges. Right.
So there's been a lot of pushback on the political side of the House on these charges, claiming that it's not espionage. It's interesting that that's coming from members of Congress. They write and enact these statutes. And the Espionage act captures a lot of conduct.
It captures everything ranging from selling secrets to our nation's enemy. That's not charged in this indictment. But there is a portion of the Espionage act that makes it illegal to willfully retain classified material. You're required to turn it back over.
Trump knew he was required to turn it back over, and he didn't. And something that happens in connection with the statute, you can imagine it's not charged in every case because not every retention of classified material is willful. Sometimes people do it inadvertently. It can be sloppy.
But they don't have that component of an intent to defy the law, to violate the law. So what do prosecutors need? They need, for instance, obstruction. They need a defendant who tries to interfere with an investigation.
That's what they've got here. This indictment contains a one, two punch. It's the Espionage act violations combined with the obstruction that gives the government the evidence that in this case, Trump's conduct was willful that he should be prosecuted. And that separates this case, quite frankly, from cases like Joe Biden or like Mike Pence.
Not all cases where someone has classified information are indicted. This one clearly falls into the wheelhouse of cases that are. All right, Joyce fans, thank you so much. I always appreciate talking to you on these very big, complicated days.
Good to see you. Thank you. And of course, Ken and Gabe and Brandy before that. Coming up, standing by their man, Republicans are vowing to investigate the investigators as lawmakers return to Congress ahead of the former president's agreement on several charges.
The latest reaction and fallout next. Plus history in the making. What this rock moment in US History and an unprecedented GOP primary means for the future of the White House. You're watching me.
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Let's just take a step back. It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Hey guys, Williegeist here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit down podcast.
On this week's episode, I sit down with one of the biggest bands in the world, Mumford and Sons, as we get the boys together to talk about their new number one album, Prize Fighter, and the evolution of that irresistible foot stomping sound. You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts. Welcome back. The House is back in session today for the first time since prosecutors unsealed those sweeping charges against the former president.
House Speaker Kevin McCarthy spoke to reporters on camera today for the first time since the indictment, saying he believes the process has not been fair to Mr. Trump. While also trying to steer the conversation toward the investigation into documents found in President Biden's possession. Take a listen.
President Trump has said he completely innocent. You believe him, that he's done. I think President Trump has not been treated legal like everybody else in the process. I think when you're looking now currently at a current president that has back in the city behind his automobile and Necros going all the way back to a Senate, that raises a lot.
If you're charging one and not charging the other, you raise one house, but you don't raise the other. That's a little different. That's not fair. NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles has the very latest from Congress.
Ryan, thanks so much for joining me on a busy day. Talk to me about what you're hearing from lawmakers and this defense effectively that we're hearing from President Trump in this extraordinary moment. Yeah, with a few exceptions, it seems as though Republicans are really kind of singing from the same hymnal person. They're really using this comparison of the investigation into President Biden and the classified documents that ended up in the possession of his private office after he was vice president and somehow equating that to the lengthy and damning indictment against a former President Donald Trump.
And when you really start to try and pin them down on the specifics of the indictment, they quickly just revert back to their complaints about President Biden and then extended out to an argument that there's a two tier justice system and that somehow President Trump has been unfairly attacked in that sphere. So what hasn't been too big of a surprise, Chris, because we've seen this happen over and over again, is that whenever President Trump is in trouble, his first defenders are here on Capitol Hill and they come in the form of Republican members of Congress. And that seems to be the exact pattern that's playing out here this time around as well. Right.
I want to switch here a little bit. FBI Director Chris for Ray's going to be on Capitol Hill tonight. What are you expecting? What are you watching for?
So he's gonna be with the House Intelligence Committee, and that's completely behind closed doors, is in a secure location. It gives them the opportunity to talk frankly about classified information and investigations that the FBI is engaged in. You know, there's obviously a lot of focus on Christopher, particularly for the Oversight Committee, which was on the verge of, of holding him in contempt because of a document that they were trying to access as it relates to their investigation to the Biden family. We don't expect that from the intel committee, they have been a far more bipartisan in their approach.
We have not seen a lot of noise from the Intel Committee specifically about these investigations into the Biden administration. So this could be about something completely different. It's not uncommon for the FBI director to be up here on Capitol Hill and to breathe these committees. And this looks like just a standard, one of the mill opportunity for him to talk with these members.
And I just quickly, before I let you go, obviously you've been tracking the drama with Speaker McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus, a little bit of an uprising in the wake of passing the debt ceiling deal with President Biden. So talk about what's happening, where things stand. Has he been able to break through the law? General it doesn't look the House Rules Committee is expected to meet this hour, and that's where the login currently exists because Republicans refuse to vote on the rule, which is a procedural step in the legislative process to get a piece of legislation to the floor.
Right now, House conservatives are denying Kevin McCarthy the votes to move past that procedural vote. And that's stalling these messaging bills that Republicans want to get out of that really hopefully becoming law. Things like, you know, protecting gas stoves and things along those lines. This isn't a problem yet.
It's gonna become a problem once the budget process begins in earnest later this summer. Kevin McCarthy signaled today that he's willing to keep the House in session through the August break if they can't break this log jam. So they're still very much at a standoff right now for and there doesn't appear to be a huge breakthrough, at least not yet. Could be a very long August for everyone.
All right, Ryan Nobles, thank you for covering all the angles from Capitol Hill for us. Turning back to the Trump and David, now joining me now to take a big picture look at what it means for the GOP and the 2024 primaries, Amy Walter, publisher and editor in chief of the Cook Political Report. Amy, it's great to see you here. So let's talk about everything that we just heard from Ryan and everything that we're hearing from the four president's allies on Capitol Hill.
I mean, they are doing what you expect them to do and what we see for with the example of Senate Republican leadership, right, as the only group that hasn't come out and circled behind President Trump. This feels so much like 2016. It's very different from 2016. But in the sense of this idea that at some point Donald Trump will collapse, at some point voters are going to become Exhausted.
At some point, there'll be a straw. Maybe, okay, it wasn't Alvin Bragg, but it will be this case with the documents. Okay, maybe it's not this one. It will be the Fulton County.
Okay, maybe it won't be Fulton County. It will be January. It's not going to happen unless his rivals and those in leadership agree to say it is a problem. And while they agree with Donald, when they agree with Donald Trump, it sure makes it hard for voters who may be feeling exhausted or voters who may say, I don't know if this is a guy we should go with, to feel as if that's a good offer for them.
Right. They're not hearing it echoed back to them. So they say, well, Donald Trump must be doing something right, because everybody agrees. It's such a fascinating point.
Lindsey Graham over the weekend kind of characterized what we're seeing and the response that we're seeing that strategy in this way. Let's take a look. What I don't like is a system in America where the Secretary of State, who's a Democratic candidate for president, has people take a hammer to social media devices and break them apart. Most Republicans believe we live in a country where Hillary Clinton did very similar things and nothing happened to her.
The fact check there that we need to point out, she was investigated. Her charges are not brought against her for handling classified documents. In this case, charges have been brought now against former President Trump and explains why his rivals are hesitant to go after. That's exactly right.
And as we saw in 2016 when Bernie Sanders said, look, forget about her emails. Right. I don't care about her emails. During that debate moment, it was very.
It's very hard to go and criticize Donald Trump when you do feel like, as many in the base do, as many Republican leaders do. The Department of Justice has been politicized, that the FBI did wrong, by the way, they investigated Hillary Clinton at the same time. What happened in 2016, Hillary Clinton, that the. The umbrella of doubt around her, the accusations that she did things wrong.
Obviously, Donald Trump took the campaign trail day after day after day. The emails, the missing emails. It was successful in helping him win that election. Republicans are defending Trump, who is making himself less electable with every day that passes.
Every one of these indictments makes the case for his reelection harder. It's great that you brought that up. We have that tape and I want to play it because I do think it's. It's a critical piece of what you're talking about.
Let's play it and talk about it. Let me say something that may not be great politics, but I think the secretary is right, and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails. Thank you. Me, too.
Me, too. Enough of the emails. Let's talk about the real issues. And the reality is the American public did care about that.
It was certainly a big issue, just in the sense of the way that people viewed Hillary Clinton. The fact that we went into an election where more people than we've ever seen before said they disliked both candidates, those candidates ultimately broke for Donald Trump. I mean, those voters ultimately broke for Donald Trump at the end. But it was clear that this issue of the emails was an issue in the campaign.
And Bernie Sanders notwithstanding, it is something that even many Democratic voters were frustrated. It was that chip, chip, chip, chipping away at her voters around the edges. And I guess, Amy, the big picture question here in the primary, if none of his rivals really start to go after him, he might walk away with a nomination. But doesn't make it that much harder for him to win the nomination because he lost last time not having been indicted.
I mean, who's the voter who voted for him in 2016, didn't vote for him in 2020, who comes back exactly with this settlement? That's exactly right. That's exactly right. But making that argument, which is maybe this is the argument that you may start to see Republicans make, who are his rivals that look, we agree with the Department of Justice.
They're politicized. They should have gone after Hillary Clinton. It's a witch hunt. But let's be really clear, it does leave him with more baggage.
And the more baggage he has, the harder it's going to be for him to win the election. So we can all agree it was bad what the Department of Justice did, but we also agree that we want to be Joe Biden. He has too much baggage to do that. That's not an easy message to sell either, especially when he lost by a very small margin, not in the popular vote, of course, but an Electoral college.
And I think you're right. I think that is the seminal question. Do we start to hear some of these candidates make that argument? Amy?
Walter, thank you so much. So fun to be. So great to see you as always. Up next, Trump rhetoric, new reaction from Donald Trump's rivals defending him as the former president calls for protests ahead of his arraignment on federal charges tomorrow.
The panel's next. You're watching ME, the Press now. Welcome back. As we've noted, Republicans are The most part standing by former President Trump even after prosecutors unsealed that sweeping 37 count indictment on Friday.
Here's one of Mr. Trump's so called rivals for the Republican nomination criticizing the Justice Department on the campaign trail earlier today. What we see today across the station under Joe Biden's leadership is a double standard. That double standard is both un American and unacceptable.
You can't protect Democrats while targeting and hunting Republicans. So what I'm going to focus on is making sure as president of the United States that I restore confidence and integrity in the Department of Justice. Also today we heard from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, Mr. Trump's main primary rival in the polls, also attacking the federal justice system while also ignoring the substance of the charges facing the former president.
I think when you talk about two standards of justice, if you have extraordinary zeal on one side and then a complete indifference and a lack of zeal on the other, you know, that's a huge, huge imbalance. And I think that's something that we'll certainly rectify when I become president. But it is glaring and I think people see that. Jeremy.
Now on Saturdays, congressional reporter for Politic, Democratic strategist and NBC News political analyst Juanita Tolliver and Republican strategist and NBC News political analyst Rick Tyler. Thank you all for being here. We just got a little bit of breaking news which is a little more reaction, somewhat surprising from Nikki Haley, of course, another one of former President Trump's rivals. I'm going to play that and get everyone's reaction.
Take a look. If this indictment is true, if what it says is actually the case, President Trump was incredibly reckless with our national security. Now this is the second indictment. We're looking at possibly a third indictment coming in with Georgia.
My concern is not so much about how this, you know, plays out and what we do. My concern is about the direction of the country, the fact that we cannot have Biden win this election. Danielle, what do you make of that? This is, this is a break for Nikki Haley.
It's a break for Nikki Haley, but it also a break from what we're seeing, from the majority of Republicans are coming out and a lot of them defending him, even some of his rivals, you know, on Capitol Hill. It's the first day back today with both chambers and Redee senators and House members. And they're all going to say different things about Donald Trump. We've seen quite a sampling of it this past weekend.
But really what we're seeing is a lot of the these members and of course Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis coming out and for the most part not having any sort of harsh criticism. This is the strongest we've seen so far. Really interesting because what these candidates are going to have to do is really draw a distinction. And so far I think they're trying to figure out how to do that.
You know what's so interesting, Juanita, is I was just talking to Amy Walter and she said you're going to start to see some Republican candidates likely come out and make the case he cannot win a general election. And she is basically making that case. It's a baby step in the right direction. So I'll give her that.
That's my compliment. But the reality is we need more of that for more people because before that clip I thought Isa Hutchinson and Chris Christie were riding along. So it's good to see more of that. But I think the other thing that that statement represents is what independent voters or Republicans who are on the fence might be thinking and feeling as more and more navigants and evidence comes out, because that's how you see it.
I think I basically agree with that. Donald Trump sat in the Oval Office with Russians and gave away Israeli secrets. So here he, here he is storing the nation's secrets. By the way, if you read the indictment, and I have read the indictment, apparently Nikki Haley has the indictment.
He's not indicted on every single count of possessing classified information. I don't know why that is, but I suspect some of these documents are so sensitive that the intelligence agencies do not even want to acknowledge their existence. So they negotiated keeping them out of the indictment. I don't know if that's true.
I suspect strongly that's true. In Mar a Lago they employ 150 people. They've had dozens of events there. They've had tens of thousands of people come through this unsecured property.
They were storing documents on the ballroom stage. So we think about the hotel. You know, your sister in law got married, whatever. Somebody got married in your family.
Imagine them storing our national security, our nuclear secrets, our reaction to how we would react under attack. This, this is reckless. And this, by the way, was how Donald Trump got reckless elected by criticizing Hillary Clinton. And here he is with a disregard.
He should not be anywhere near secret documents. He shouldn't be a chief of staff, he shouldn't be the mayor in chief and should never be president again. Criticized him for her handling of classified documents. It is extraordinary.
Let's play a little bit of what Mark overdrive. He spoke to some of this let's play a little bit of him and Gavriel. When you reign, indictment like this is not done in isolation. It's not done in a vacuum.
You got to take a lot of things into account. There's no allegation that there was harm done to the national security. There's no allegation that he sold it to a foreign power or that it was trafficked to somebody else. So anybody got access to it, and you have to weigh that the harm of that versus or the lack thereof on the harm that's indictment does to the country.
This is deeply divisive. So this is the other side of the argument that we are hearing and that we will hear from a number of Republicans. And I think it's weak, but I know their bases aren't eaten up. We saw the polling numbers, but from CBSs, 76% of GOP primary voters are still believing that this is politically motivated.
Even we have the evidence laid out. Even when Trump's lawyers are saying, he asked us to ignore this, he wanted us to do nothing, he asked us to hide. Can you just have a bracelet here? When you indict a political figure, by nature, the process is going to be political.
That's just the nature of the argument. You have to look at the facts of the law. He broke the law. And to this, a federal indictment is different than the New York indictment with the grand jury.
Who are his neighbors? Yes. I think something to know is Margarito speaking for a lot of Republicans, and he is the ranking member on the Senate Oversight Committee or Intel Committee, I should say different on the Senate side. But I think that what's important to note is this is how we're going to hear in the coming days from a lot of Republicans.
It's not just him. And it's really true to how a lot of people feel about this. Republican voters, if you look at the polls, are 76%, according to a recent poll, say that this indictment is politically motivated. 12% say it's a national security risk.
So when you look at this disparity rig, it explains why former President Trump's Republican rivals are walking such a fine line. But it does remind us there's a law, there's a Constitution, and there's a security of the country, or you can put politics first, and they decide to put politics first. And that is dangerous. And it doesn't seem to be, to me to be a very difficult call to say that the president has been died.
Let the process play out. He will have a chance to defend Himself, he'll chance to plead not guilty tomorrow and let the process play out. Chris Christie spoke to the security issues for him. That's the argument he's making.
Take a look at what he's had say to Is this the type of conduct that we want from someone who wants to be president of the United States? To take national security documents involving warfare and our nuclear program to keep them in there in their home when they're not allowed to do so, exposing them to potentially being seen by a number of people and then actually showing them to people showing off. This is irresponsible conduct. Juanita, your take.
And also to pivot a little bit, President Biden's not weighing on this. He's doing that for strategic reasons because it's an ongoing investigation. But do you think that he should start weighing in? No, President Biden doesn't need to weigh in.
This is under the control of DOJ special counsel Jack Smith, period. And President Biden has been explicitly consistent and that the DOJ operates autonomously. He does not control the doj. Like we saw Trump flex that muscle repeatedly in four years that he wasn't alive.
You know, I love to disagree with Democrats. So painful for me because there's so much to disagree on, but I don't disagree. Oh, bless. Well, you don't disagree.
Okay, let me ask, let me pose this question to you here. You have Chris Christie, you have Nikki Haley a little bit. You have Asa Hutchinson out with some stronger remarks. This is different than what we saw after the New York indictment, Rick.
But is it still largely a replay but we saw in 2016 where no one's really laying a hand on it? I think that's true. I think that no one's unlocked Donald Trump. And to my great disappointment over the last since 2016, I thought the Republican Party, the most part, believe what I believe.
But what they're saying about Donald Trump and defending them does incalculable damage because it undermines our institutions. And they talk about the Democrats doing all this damage, but they're doing damage because we don't say in America, we don't say, well, I think he robbed the liquor store. So we locked him up because we think so. We have to actually have proof.
And they keep making assertions with no proof. Danielle, very quick last, where do you think this goes? Do you think we start to see more Republicans taking him at former president? Well, just moments ago, while I was arriving here, Jim Jordan actually said that he was thinking about calling Jack Smith to testify on Capitol Hill.
And I think that's what we're going to see from a lot of that's what we're going to see from a lot of these Republicans is they're going to come to Trump's defense, especially, you know, someone like Jim Jordan, who is a strong Trump ally. And we're going to see a lot of what Democrats would call political theatrics on Capitol Hill. And they tried to identify. Well, thank you guys for being here on a very busy Monday on another historic week.
Danielle and Rick really appreciate it. After the break, Ukraine claims its first game since launching a spring counter offensive. What it means for the war next. You're WATCHING ME THE PRESS now.
Welcome back. Turning out the latest in the war Ukraine as Ukrainian officials are already claiming their first battlefield victory in the early stages of the military's counter offensive, which launched just last week. He says it has liberated four towns in the eastern Donetsk region, raising their flag in those retaken villages. This is just the start of what's expected to be a long and challenging effort to take back Russian occupied territory.
Joining me now is Lt. Gen. Steph Tweet, former Deputy Commander, U.S. european Command and an NBC News military analyst.
Thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate it, as always. Good to be back with you. Thank you.
So let's talk about what you are seeing at this point. What are your initial takeaways from the start of this counter offensive? Yes, my initial takeaways there's been some success, incremental success by the Ukrainians. They've been able to take four villages.
And I think there's also reporting out there that they've taken over three more that's pretty much been in the Donetsk and the Zap regions. And what I will tell you is what they're doing is they're hitting Russian reconnaissance elements at this point. They have not hit the hard fight yet, which will be the next echelon. So once they break through these reconnaissance elements and hit the second echelon, that's when you're going to have the toughest fight.
And that's where you could perhaps see the Russians put up a more staunch fight and more resilient fight. What do they need to do to be successful in this counter offensive and how you and I have spent a lot of time talking about the fact that the U.S. its allies in the region, have sent the Ukrainians more weaponry, more advanced military systems. What do they need to do to be successful?
And do you think they have the capabilities to do it? Well, I think they have a capability to do it now. Putting it all together, as you said, we've sent a lot of equipment from the West. Now it will be time for them to prove that they can act as a combined arms team.
And what they need to do is break the land bridge between Russia and Crimea. If they can break through the Russian defense, then they can break that land bridge. That's the operational objective for this counteroffensive. And then the strategic objective will be to continue to attack, to kick the Russians out of Ukraine.
And so if they can show progress in those two areas, they can meet success. And that's what the west is hoping for. Let me ask you about the latest development that Moscow is saying that they've detained another American on drug charges. Do you think that we could see a prisoner exchange in this moment?
I hate to say it, but I don't think so. As you know, Russia is good at obtaining our folks and putting them in prison, and they're going to use that prisoner probably for leverage. And I think if you start to see the Ukrainians win here and we start to get to the negotiation table, maybe we could see a prisoner exchange at that particular time. But I think it's unlikely here in the near term.
And as you know, President Biden is going to be meeting with Stoltenberg tomorrow. What are you expecting? And obviously his tenure is set to expire later this year. How much potential instability could that bring in the middle of this fierce fighting in Ukraine?
Well, Stoltenberg has been an absolutely outstanding leader for NATO. He's been in almost 10 years. He'll give up his term here on one October. But there's two things about him.
He's been a uniter for the 31, correction, 30 now, 31 countries of NATO for sure. And number two, he's been able to work across all the nations within NATO to ensure that they stay united, particularly on the withdrawal from Afghanistan and now on the war in Ukraine. He's absolutely been in United States. I expect the new leader to come in and pick up that same role and a lot on that person's plate.
Do you have any names in mind who you'd like to see take it home? I think you're going to see, and I hope we see someone from the east come out on this, either the prime minister of Estonia, Prime Minister Khaled, or the prime minister of Lithuania, Simon, or Simon is her name, are two that I think would do an extremely good job in that capacity. All right. Lieutenant General Steph Twitty, thank you as always for your perspective.
Really Appreciate it. Silicon Amid the former president historic on federal charges, Chuck sat down with the author behind a new book that paints a damning portrait of post Trump Washington and the surprising power players inside it that interviews next. You're watching the press now while the back Former President Trump's presence in Washington has lived on long after he left the White House after four years of Trump. The people behind the scenes, the strategists, the congressional AIDS and the activists, among others, were left to pick up the pieces and adjust.
Ben Terrace, author of the new book the Big Break, the gamblers, party animals and true believers trying to win Washington While America Loses Its Mind, looked at the post Trump landscape through the lens of a few DC Insiders. Chuck Todd recently spoke to Ben about his reporting. And joining me now to talk about his new book, which is that's a buzz here inside of la. It's called the Big Break is Ben Terrace.
Ben, welcome. Thanks for having me. All right, so you were trying to, I think, chronicle Washington's attempt to return to normal. Is that the best way to describe what the goal of this book was?
Yeah, I mean, there was this belief that Washington could return to normal. Right. There was a president coming back who is kind of a very definition of a politician. And there's a lot of hope and belief that, okay, after four years of Trump, maybe things can be normal.
But I've been here long enough to know that, like things are not normal. What was the normal youth that you think people were describing? Did you ever figure that out? Because when you described that, I was saying to myself up, well, what is the normal?
Just the normal. What Washington was in the 90s is the normal. What Washington was in wartime during the aughts, was it what Washington was for the three years, the last three years of Obama? I don't know what is the normal?
I think a lot of people outside Washington, when they think of normal, they just don't want to be think about Washington all the time. They don't want it to be like the cages are being rattled and it seems like we're gonna have a nuke dropped on us at any moment or a nuke is gonna be dropped on a hurricane. You know, it just meant like some bipartisanship, some legislation getting passed, maybe there's gridlock. But you don't have to think about it here about it all the time.
You're not gonna have these bomb throwers kind of in your ear, you know, every minute of the day. What I like about your book is I've been here three Years. And you reminded me of the title because I didn't have it right. Gucci Golchis or the first book I remember that sort of wanted to explain how Washington worked.
Then we had this Town by Mark Leibovich. I feel like you are in this tradition. You're like, hey, this is how Washington's working now. And you found a really broken Washington.
I thought, yeah. And, you know, this town is like. That's kind of how I got interested in Washington and covering it. I'm a feature writer for Washington Post.
I'm looking for characters, and I want the stories to be fun, even if they're dark. Right. I mean, it's this kind of veep. When you watch VV Laughs.
But you're also like. I was just gonna say the Christmas party with the haunt heiress and the schlaps on the. I mean, you use these. There's nothing like a Christmas party.
I think Mark Living abuse of memorial service, which in an odd way works the same way. Right. You use two different Christmas parties that are actually happening on the same night. Yeah.
And so the fact that I have this job means I can see that Washington's broken, but I get to go places and figure out why. You know, I wrote this book not for the insiders, but for regular, normal people who want to know why the insiders seem so. So nuts. I think there are gonna be people who read this book and hate some of these characters.
Like, some of these characters laugh their way through this book. Feel like you're on an adventure, you know, not everyone's gonna love those books. Do you write a grifter book? A grifter book?
That's a good question. I think Washington has a lot of grift. I wouldn't call it grifter book because I think Washington has lots of different types of people. You don't think you were portrayed.
You don't think a couple of these people are grifters? At the end of the day, look, I like to put a label on it. Right. I think some people will read this book and say, yeah, these guys are taking advantage of the system.
When it. I find Sean McAway to be really disturbing this book because he sort of is very comfortable talking about how he gables on clients he works against. It was. I'm just sitting there going, you know, as somebody who has been handicapping politics for 30 years, I often joke about it.
Hey, it'd be fun to set lines. Hey, be fun to. You know. And I actually see all this garbage betting, and I see how bad it is.
I'm like, wow, a lot of money could be made here if somebody really wanted to do it. And it sounds like this guy did. Yeah. I mean, I was shocked by it.
It's a scandal. Yeah, I thought so too. What made relation to me is he was doing it so openly. It's one of the lessons of the Trump era, really.
Yeah. It's like if you're doing something, you're open, people will be like, oh, is that allowed? And I'm a journalist, and I couldn't believe this thing in front of me. A big takeaway I got from your book was the business of Washington is having a harder time than ever being bipartisan.
Because usually the most successful businesses in Washington with lobbying firms that figured out how to be bipartisan. And that seems to be what you found is having a hard time recovering. People like, talk about Washington, talk about the game. Right.
It's always like, oh, they're not a joke. They get the game. Yeah. Okay.
At the end of the day, the Democrat lobbyist of Republican lobbyists had shared the same dinner and they rotated which client they were going to charge it to. Right. One of the joke is so dark. That's not funny.
It might not be a joke anymore. A lot of people are actually true believers that their side is good and the other side is evil, or they at least have to act that way. Even in the lobbying? Even in the lobbying.
At the very least, they have to act that way because otherwise they're going to lose all their credibility. Is this a case where we're still another election away from a new normal being set? Do you feel like there is a normal right now or are we just still in this sort of where Washington almost feels like it's a wartime city. It's a weird war, but it's in a wartime.
It feels that way. It feels that way. And look, the thing about Washington is people make predictions all the time. They're always wrong and there's not really a consequence for it.
I don't know. I can't make the prediction. But I'd like to believe that things can get normal at some point. And we've been through a lot of the country and we can probably get through.
This venture is a terrific book. You have amazing characters. It's a lot of fun read. Great conversation with Chuck and Ben there.
And that does it for this hour. Chuck is back tomorrow with more of the press. Now NBC News now coverage continues with Hallie Jackson. He was a young Marine.
She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, expected and utterly bizarre turn.
I'm Josh Makowitz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dayline. Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion. Now, wherever you get your podcasts.