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If it's Tuesday, Me C News obtains what could be a key piece of evidence in the criminal trial against former President Trump in audio recording of him acknowledging he has highly classified information in his possession. Plus, in a major ruling today, the Supreme Court rejects a Trump act effort that could have upended elections ahead of 2024. And we have brand new NBC polling on the most heated issues driving Republican primary voters as a crowded field fights for the nomination and the future of the gop. Welcome to Meet the press.
Now I'm Kristen Welker in Washington as former President Trump hits the campaign and lashes out at federal prosecutors after a damning audio recording surface of him knowingly discussing classified documents at his New Jersey golf club after leaving Office. In a two minute recording from 2021 we've obtained by ABC News, other outlets as well have obtained it, Mr. Trump is heard discussing and apparently sharing classified material about Iran with two staffers and two other club guests. For example, he said that I wanted to attack Iran.
Isn't it amazing how the big pilot came up? Look, this was him. They presented me. This is off the record, but they presented me this.
That recording has been specifically mentioned as a key piece of evidence in special counsel Jack Smith's sweeping 37 count indictment against Mr. Trump. In it, the former president also acknowledges he does not have the authority to share these documents after leaving office. It is like highly controversial.
This is secret. Now. This recording contradicts claims Mr. Trump made in an interview last week with Fox News that he was referring to public newspaper stories and articles in that meeting.
According to Fox News Digital, in an interview today, the former president did not outright deny having a classified document, but also said that what he told Fox last week was, quote, absolutely fine. And today, while campaigning New Hampshire, the former president didn't specifically mention the recording, but he doubled down on claims the Justice Department has been unfairly weaponized against him. He also told supporters today that his legal problems are going to help him politically. There could be others coming like for A perfect phone call numbers will keep going up.
I don't think anything like that's ever happened before. And this has never happened. Weaponization like this never happened before. This is the continuation of the greatest witch hunt of all time.
That's all it is. Joining me now is NBC News justice Correspondent Ryan Reilly, ABC's On Hilliard as a New Hampshire with the former president. Also with me, Joyce Vance, former U.S. attorney and an NBC News legal analyst.
Thanks to all of you for being here. Ryan, I want to start with you. Talk about the significance of the tape. You've got some additional context here that helps us understand exactly what's in it.
Yeah, I think just hearing the former president speak about in that nature is pretty striking. It really speaks to the sort of casual nature at which he was handling these classified documents. It was almost sort of like, oh, look at this, I got this right here. And I think that's something that when presented with jurors, could give them broader context about Donald Trump's entire process, not only towards this specific document, but towards classified documents in general.
It also goes to a state of mind in terms of knowing that he wasn't able anymore to declassify documents as a form of president. So it also, you know, there's acknowledgement essentially in there that what I'm doing, is it right or is it, ooh, can he get away with the sort of nature of it when he's referencing the other people who are doing on the aide and seems to suggest that maybe this is on the other side. Are we hearing from the special counsel all today about this? They decline to comment on this.
And you know, I think basically we can read a little bit about where this came from. Remember a lot of people had access to this document. So I remember it was pre self serving for the Trump campaign to come out and say, oh, look at these leaks, look at these leaks. Oh, everything we know about the special counsel investigation is they've really been playing this by the book.
They've spoken through their court documents. They give individuals with the bylines off the stories that frankly come out of these things. You can see indications you're not getting these sort of stories from Justice Department B reporters, from myself in terms of obtaining that audio. It's usually coming for people who are more familiar with Trump rules.
And we're getting some broader context about the classified documents case overall. What are you learning? The classified documents case overall. We have the age of the former president who was supposed to appear today.
There was apparently some bad weather last night involving flights of New York. So he wasn't able to get down to Miami, where he's supposed to make a court appearance. So that has been kicked back by a couple of weeks, which delays the start of any potential proceedings, thus going forward, because it sort of puts a stop on that city trial time clock in terms of when you actually do a trial going forward. So we'll continue to watch that.
That's a sort of fascinating piece of this as well. And we also know that there's this ongoing investigation by the special counsel into the events surrounding January 6th. And now they are talking to Georgia's Secretary of State. What are you learning about that, Ryan?
What's the significance there? It's pretty essential. We know that they're speaking to the fake electors before we know that they've really looked at a wide range of individuals who are familiar with any of the actions to stop the peaceful transfer leading up to January 6th. And while we colloquially refer to this as the January 6th grand jury, really it's more about stopping the peaceful transfer of power and any activities after the 2020 election leading all the way up to January 6, when those fake letters were presented just before the day that we saw the riot.
It's not just really about Trump's speeches more broadly. I think Brad Rattenberger is certainly a key person in that because he spoke to Donald Trump just after the election. Absolutely. Let me go out to you in New Hampshire.
You're there with former President Trump. Of course, we heard those remarks today. He notably did not discuss this tape, but he was pretty def. Did you hear from him?
What were your key takeaways? Right. After a year, Kristen, of hearing Donald Trump in his defiance and his myriad of wavering of excuses or explanations or defenses of what happened, why the documents were there, whether they were planted, whether he actually classified them or not, suddenly the revealing of that audio last night was notable because it directly undercut his own words from just one week ago. And that's where Donald Trump actually just last hour, Fox just posted a new interview with Donald Trump online.
And unlike in his Brett Baer interview last week in which he said that there was no such Iran document, that was in his own reporting alluded to. But in his new interview with Fox, this is the quote, I had a whole desk full of lots of papers, mostly newspaper articles, copies of magazines, that mostly does a lot of talking. Of course, the question is, what do prosecutors have in their possession here? But you didn't hear him defend himself outright other than to make the case to those in the room that the indictment of him was an indictment of them, an effort to undermine the political movement that he is currently at the helm of politically speaking.
He's making a case that this only emboldens him. We've seen that actually play out in the polls. What are you hearing when you talk to voters and frankly inside Trump world as well, Are they concerned that more indictments actually might start to chip away at his border on the edges on the political front from the Trump world? They say, look, this is going to unfold as it will.
As for right now, they're controlling the political conversation because it's putting Ron DeSantis and the other on their heels, having to choose whether defend Donald Trump was still a popular figure in this Republican Party or step away from him and he will then go on the attack against him. We're talking to voters here. There were some that apparent to her echo Donald Trump's own defenses about having declassified everything left the White House, which is not true. But then also there's one when I talked to who said she did hear the audio recording on the TV here this morning and she said that she didn't know enough about to determine whether he had broken the law or not.
I said, but does that mean would you, let's say he would become guilty in trial, would you still support him? She said, I'm not ready to answer that. But when I asked her whether she were primary for him here in New Hampshire, she said yes. So there is, there is a lot of different segments of this Republican electorate that I think are handling this in different ways.
The question is how big are those different segments here? And for Donald Trump, he lives very much in a conservative echo chamber of right wing media outlets that parrot a lot of his own defenses. And is that enough of the Republican electorate to earn him the Republican nomination year or the year ahead? Yeah, I think those are the key questions that we'll keep drilling down on Joyce fans.
Let me turn to you now and just get your reaction to that stunning audio that was released overnight. Obviously this is now obtained a copy of it. How significant is it in a legal case against the former president? The value of that tape is evidence for prosecutors is that it bears on multiple issues.
It helps to establish the fact that the former president was well aware that he no longer had the ability to declassify documents. It shows that he at least was willing to claim that he had classified material in his possession. But the real value, I think is playing this tape for jurors and letting them hear the Tone, you know, this is something that you don't get from the indictment itself when you read the cold language off of a piece of paper. It's the tone in the president's voice, the laughter, the cavalier attitude towards classified information, and the ability that this gives prosecutors to impress upon jurors that this was not someone who was fit to guard the nation's secrets.
Well, and let me just play a little bit of what the former president told Fox News to get your reaction to that. On the other side, Joyce, there was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else talking about Iran and other things. And it may have been held up or made up, but that was not a document.
I didn't have a document per se. There was nothing to declassify. These were newspaper stores, magazine stores and articles. The recording and the people in the room who testified, very dishonest people.
They're thugs. So, Joyce, now, of course he was talking about a document. Is that interview admissible in court? How does that play into the broader legal case?
So I'm not sure that that's something that you actually want to play, but you want to hold that as a whole card. Knowing that prosecutors will have the ability, if Donald Trump chooses to take the witness stand, to put forward much of what he says publicly as a defense, then they'll be able to cross examine him. And if he makes contradictory statements, they can use these prior inconsistent statements to refresh his recollection and ask him, you know, in essence, when were you lying? Were you lying then or were you lying now?
Brett Bear does a great job in that interview. But Donald Trump has never faced cross examination from federal prosecutors. In a courtroom, there are no time limits. The questions are, of course, subject to some federal rules of evidence, but prosecutors are entitled to grill a witness on the witness stand who has made a series of inconsistent statements.
And the sort of bluster that we're used to hearing from the former president, who's equally happy saying, I had a document and I didn't have a document, they have the ability to pin him down and put on full display for a jury the inconsistencies. And Joyce, speaking of the prosecution, what do you make of Judge Cannon's decision to reject the DOJ's request to keep the potential witness list secret? How significant is that? This is a situation that will likely evolve as prosecutors move forward.
The problem that they face. It's unusual to provide a witness list this far in advance of trial, but here, because the magistrate judge who arraigned the former president Wanted to create some accountability and ensure that he wouldn't try to talk with witnesses about the case while we were in pretrial proceedings. There's this unusual order asking for this sort of a list. Judge Cannon, I think, wanted to avoid having the appearance that she wasn't being transparent.
But prosecutors need to retain this list in a secret fashion, in a sealed fashion in court because of the former president and his supporters history of harassing witnesses, harassing people who are known to be, you know, against the former president, which is how they will classify it. So prosecutors need to protect their record. They need to have this document as a part of the record in court in case they need down the road to refer back to who Donald Trump was not allowed to talk about the case with. And they also need to protect their witnesses.
I think we'll see another motion from them seeking to do just that. All right, Choice fans, thank you for your great information. Powering through a little bit of audio issues that we're having. I really appreciate it.
And Von Hilliard and Riley, thank you so much for that. We want to turn now to how the rest of the field is handling Trump. Following a speech in Washington, D.C. today meant to highlight reform policy, former Ambassador Nikki Haley dodged when she was asked about her former policy's legal troubles.
In terms of the recording that's happened, we'll let the courts play that out and do whatever. I have long said anybody that wants to run for president can run for president. I think that's for the people to decide. Abyssali Vitale was that Nikki Haley campaign event in D.C.
and she joins me now on set with more. Ali, it's good to have you here in person. Exactly. Talk about what we're hearing from Nikki Haley because she has been very careful in talking about the former president's legal problems.
But she did sharpen her language today on foreign policy. Tell us about it. Yeah, she's willing to contrast with him, if not attacking him on the classified documents in the newly released audio or rather obtained audio, she's contracting with him on China. At least for now.
This was a foreign policy focused speech. We're starting to see this pattern emerge, frankly, with the Haley campaign trying to use these sorts of more formal policy speeches as a chance for her to get into the news cycle and really show her credentials, especially when it comes to China and the world stage. That's where she chose to to make a contract with the former president. I'll play a little bit of that for you to watch.
Trump did too little about the rest of the Chinese threat. He did not put us on a stronger military foothold in Asia. He did not stop the flow of American technology and investment into the Chinese military. He did not effectively rally our allies against the Chinese threat.
He also showed moral weakness. In his zeal to befriend President Xi, Trump congratulated the Communist party on its 70th anniversary of conquering China. That sent a wrong message to the world. So, Haley, they're clearly making argument about the way that the former president.
Why, about his relationships with people like Xi. Frankly, the same thing for people like Kim Jong Un and the phrase that he's heaped upon Putin. That wasn't the point of session today. But at the same time, she's willing to criticize one.
You gotta imagine she's willing to criticize more. And at least it's the first time you see her be so explicit. Yeah, I mean, the term moral weakness is pretty strong. Chris Christie would likely argue that.
Look, he's the one who's kind of out there really taking the sharpest shots. Ali, based on your reporting, are you getting a sense that Nikki Haley, that some of these other candidates are going to start to sharpen their tone heading into the debate and on that first debate stage in August? I think maybe selectively. Look, we've seen pen start to sharpen it when it comes to January 6th and the election.
We're watching Nikki Haley now do this. On the foreign front, we're watching Chris Christie make it sort of centerpiece of his entire campaign. I was at Faith and Freed the last week. He didn't speak to most of the issues that people there were talking to.
Supreme Court, the choosing of justices, abortion. Instead, he focused on character broadly, received some booze for it. But I gotta tell you, I was at the back of that room and there were one or two voices who even admit the booze were saying, you're right. So there is an audience that Christie's speaking to.
The question is how big that audience is. And frankly, the rest of the field, when they get on that debate stage, is enough for each of them to poke at the former president on just the one issue that they've selected, or they're gonna have to make a broader contra. I would argue it's a liar, but that. Yeah, a lot of that.
Final point. Alex, great reporting as always. Great to see you. Thank you.
Coming up, how today's Supreme Court ruling in a case about North Carolina gerrymandering has dealt a blow to election deniers. Ahead of 2024, we'll explain. Plus, on the issues, new NBC News polling reveals how far Republican voters want their presidential candidates to go as Donald Trump leads the field. You're watching the press now.
Welcome back. There are only days left in the current Supreme Court term and we're still waiting on the high court to hand down some of its biggest decisions, including cases on affirmative action and student debt relief. But the court did rule today on a major case that could have appended elections in America. In a six way decision, the court ruled that North Carolina Supreme Court does have the authority to review and strike down maps drawn by the state legislature.
Most importantly, in doing so, the court rejected a Trump backed legal theory called the independent state legislature theory that would have severely restricted the power of state courts to review election laws, meaning it could have opened the door for legislatures to potentially overturn election results. NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jericho is going to break this all down. So, Laura, talk about the significance of this ruling today, because if they had gone in the other direction, it would have been pretty, it would have a pretty big impact, right? If they had gone the other way, Christine, we'd be having a very different conversation right now.
It would have ushered an enormous sea change into how elections are run in this country. Because remember, the theory that was being suggested by the Republican lawmakers in this case is that state courts have no role to play whatsoever when it comes to how they set the rules of the game on federal elections, meaning that whether it comes to the right D laws or gerrymandering or mail in ballots, state courts would never get to review anything the state legislature did. That is an extraordinarily bold argument and it's probably the reason it failed, including with three conservative justices on their side in this case. And so just practically speaking, Laura, for folks who live in North Carolina, what does it mean for them heading into this next election?
How should they think about the implications of this? Yeah, it's important to realize, obviously, that on the face of it, this was about a North Carolina map that had been struck down on grounds of being a part of jury matter. But in North Carolina, the state Supreme Court actually changed parties because of the election. And so actually the state supreme court overruled itself when Republicans took over that core and they actually reversed what had been done.
It was one of the reasons why many had speculated that the US Supreme Court would decide this whole thing was moved since the state supreme court actually overruled itself. So when it comes to partisan gerrymandering prison in North Carolina, the state Supreme Court actually says that's a political question. We're not going to decide it now. That doesn't mean in other states they might treat it differently.
And that's why the Supreme Court decision here is important. It's not just about North Carolina. It's about what's happening across the country. And so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Obviously, North Carolina, a closely watched state for purposes of 2024. Absolutely. Let's just take a step back, Lauren. Look at what we've seen from the court overall this term.
Largely speaking, they have upheld basically the status quo when it comes to questions of government authority. But we're obviously waiting for some really big decisions to come in on affirmative action on student loan debt relief. Can we make conclusions based on what we've seen so far? I don't know that we would want to sort of suggest that just because they've kind of upheld the status quo just far on some of these really important voting rights cases, that they're going to do the same when it comes to the president's authority on student loans.
And when it comes to affirmative action. The conservatives on this court have been long opposed to affirmative action. And the only reason that things are different now, arguably, is because the court is different. For decades, they have upheld the use of affirmative action.
And many wonder why did they take this case in the first place if they weren't going to make some sort of change? And so I think it's worth keeping an open mind about what they're going to do there. It's not to say that they won't. It's not to say that they won't uphold the plans that Harvard and North Carolina are using.
But I think we can't necessarily predict it based off what they've done in these other cases. And Laura, just follow up with you on them. You've been doing some really incredible reporting about how universities are watching what they are bracing for. Talk to us a little bit about that.
What you found in your interviews. Yeah, I don't think it's an oversight to say they're freaking out right now. And the reason why is because for these schools, especially the elite schools, right, we're talking about the Harvards and uncs of the world. They truly see themselves as the breeding ground of the pipeline for leadership in this country.
All the Supreme Court justices went to body league schools. And so they, they truly see themselves as ways of helping people, minorities that have been historically disadvantaged come up in the world. And so if you take away race, at least according to these schools, it really ties a hand behind their back. Now, there are many arguments made by people who say, well, you can just look at other things like socioeconomic factors.
Schools have told me they're gonna start looking at zip codes and have better outreach with high schools. But they've also said those are not effective proxies. And what you see in states, the nine states that have been affirmed of action is the numbers of minorities drop and they plummet right away. All right, Lord, Jared, as always, you make all of these complicated things related to the court very understandable for the rest of us and really appreciate it.
Great to see you. Thank you. Come up next, culture wars, legal clashes and opposing the Kremlin. We've got brand new polling from NBC as Republican primary voters weigh in on some of the most important issues facing the field.
That's next. You're watching THE PRESS now. Welcome back. Turning to 2024 presidential politics, we've got brand new NBC poll numbers out this hour.
Here's what we found. By an enormous 80 point margin, Republican voters said they'd be more likely to vote for a candidate who supports sending the military to the border to stop the flow of drugs. Republicans also want candidates who support banning discussions of sex and gender in schools, oppose President Biden's client agenda, support bans on gender affirming care for minors and to back a six week ban on abortion. Culture war issues are clearly key, but perhaps what sticks out the most is former President Trump's influence on the primary electorate.
Republican voters are more likely to back candidates who say Donald Trump won the 2020 election and who support pardon in January 6th riders. They're less likely to back candidates who don't echo Trump's hesitance to send more into Ukraine. They're also less likely to back candidates who clash with businesses on LGBTQ issues to support cuts to Social Security and Medicare. Notably, those last two issues have become key Trump campaign talking points against Ron DeSantis.
Joining me now on set is Mark Murray, senior political editor at NBC News Camila Chalice, congressional reporter for the Washington Post, former New York Democratic Congressman Joe Crowley Imani Jen, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. Thanks to all of you for being here. Mark, set the table here. I mean, basically, the two key takeaways, the culture wars are king right now and former President Trump's hold on the party is as strong as ever.
Yeah, Kristen, this is still Donald Trump's party. Also, when I actually look at what is the most, the least popular stances, when you talk about touching entitlement programs like Medicare and Social Security. Donald Trump was just attacking Ron DeSantis about that today in New Hampshire. And then, of course, being able to say, you know, I don't want you to penalize companies that speak their mind on LGBTQ issues on something like that, on that, you know, that is the.
We actually tested that. That was the Disney situation in our poll, and that is so popular with Republicans. So I think that, to me, really does stand out. Lonnie, respond to the findings in this poll, and they reinforce, I think, some of what we have known, some of what, as Marx says, we've seen play out on the campaign show the fact that Ron DeSantis is engaged in this war with Disney, for example.
I mean, what are your takeaways? Well, I think your assessment of the culture issues being predominant is absolutely true. Republican primary voters want fire. They want someone who they perceive as being a fighter.
I would also say that I think what the Trump super PAC has done pretty effectively is to run that advertising on the Florida issue and on the other issues where they perceive potential weaknesses of the message on social media, for example, is sick. And so they're not deploying that much, but they're deploying enough. They're obviously hitting target in the sense that they're getting amplification in media as well. So I think that this demonstrates, I agree, Trump still has significant influence, and those cultural issues are much more significant than the economic issues ever been.
The Democrats struggled to find their footing on the cultural issues. And how to go after Republicans on that. I mean, when you look at these numbers, what do you see? I think I see twofold, and that being that for them to completely ignore that this is going to be something that Republicans are running on, but especially that it's going to be something that voters resonate with.
I think that would be a wise decision. What you want to see now is a lot of them recalibrating, saying what is an effective messaging strategy to really convey what they would do on these issues. I mean, a lot of them are coming about, talking about the freedoms, talking about children, education, how it infringes upon some of the book banning that you see across the country. This is what you're going to see is how not only do they mobilize Democratic voters, but also try to kind of go across the aisle and talk to voters that may vote for Trump or DeSantis on these issues.
Yeah. Joe, do you think that. What do you think Democrats are gonna take from these figures? I think the liberty Republicans have been victims of their own success in many ways, they have really energized their base.
They have radicalized their base on many of these issues. And I don't think it fares well for the general election. How do you talk to independence on these issues when your basis was strident, especially on I think on the Disney piece of this. I've always said, you know, putting Walt Disney signed all the fables and problems that he had.
Disney is an American creation. It could have been created anywhere else in the world. Not in China, Russia, even Europe. It happened here.
It's Americana. And it also speaks to the point of keeping government out of our lives. Isn't that the Republican mantra? Yet here you are trying to keep Disney out of their lives or getting involved in shutting down business in New York City, one of the largest poisoning state.
Yeah, Mark, Joe brings up independence. You have some interesting figures on independent voters too. Yeah. And so the most popular issue, the only one, ends up getting a major supported and sexually supported by independents.
And the overwhelming number of Republicans in this is sending the military to stop the drugs at the border. And so, Congressman, you're exactly right. When you look at, we tested 11 different messages that are coming from the Republican campaign. The only one that had overall majority support was sending troops at the border.
Everything else at the very beyond that, the best is kind of jump balls. Independence and the general election, you get some support of that from the White House. Some of that has been folks of the troops of the border on drugs and possibly immigration. But it does demonstrate the degree which Republican Party has shifted.
You know, you look at the Social Security, Medicare argument, you look at the argument on capitalism and previously there had been a party that stood up for business and for low regulatory. Ukraine's an interesting one too. I mean that's completely flipped in the course of maybe about a year. And so it is the enduring influence of former President Trump.
I mean that's really what it is. And let's not forget, I mean bond immigration. Trump made that essential key point in his 2016 election. The fact come up again and it's also so much support across the board.
I think that also speaks values and that's something to attest to because he was the one to talk about building order line, you know, really creating a galanizing base there. Absolutely. We're having a succession against the backdrop of that new audio tape having been released of former President Trump. From a political perspective, how damaging is it?
And by the way, you have Republicans on the Hill talking about potentially trying to impeach Attorney General Merrick Garland. I mean, look, especially being on California, talking to Republican commentators to comment on Trump's use of classified documents. And a lot of them brought up Hillary Clinton saying, hey, this is the same thing. I think the biggest finding that you come just from the release of this audio is the fact that Trump said time and time again that he did not have knowledge that he was holding these classified documents.
Now you have audios where he does acknowledge that he had these classified documents in succession. So now going back to Republicans, they're going to have to answer to that question. I think a lot of them are kind of, you know, going around it to try to not answer that question about whether he had really do a difference of Mickey Miller's deter for voting from Trump. I just don't see that by now.
Certainly not yet. His poll numbers are only going up as our latest poll showed. Mark. Right.
Yeah. And so, you know, the entire situation on this federal indictment has been terrible news for the former president. Now we even have audio. And yes, you're exactly right.
More Republicans, they don't care about it at all. Our polling up having 77% of Republican primary voters saying, I have no concerns, only minor concerns about this indictment versus 55% of general election voters. And so there is a big disconnect right now. But yes, you look at the totality of our poll and it shows that, you know, Donald Trump's doing super well with Republicans, but with the general electorate, it's, you know, he's not faring as well as a generic Republican would be right now.
And all this is putting Republicans in a tough spot on the campaign trail on the Hill. This is what Speaker McCarthy told CNBC earlier today. Day Trump's policies are better straightforward than Biden. Makes it complicated.
If he's got all these trials and all this stuff overhanging it makes it complicated, also helps him. When do you think he'd win an election? The question is, is he the strongest to win election? I don't know that answer.
But can somebody, can anybody beat Biden? Anybody can beat Biden. Can Biden beat other people? Yes, Biden can beat him, Lonnie.
He then walks those comments back to in an interview with Breitbart saying he's stronger now than he was back in 2016. But what do you make overall of what we're seeing from a McCarthy? It kind of shows just how tricky terrain this is for Republicans. Very tricky, very tricky.
And that's why you see what you had earlier with Nikki Haley speech at AEI today Where the substance of her speech is Trump didn't do this and Trump didn't do that. But when asked about the elephant in the room, her answer was, well, I'm not a lawyer and voter side and you know, that's a fine posture to have. The reality is, at the end of the day, there's some direct confrontation on this issue and a couple of candidates have done already. But for someone to kind of be in the middle on this, I think it's a tough place to be.
It's like roadkill right in the middle of the road and it's tough. Joe, pick up on that. And just the fact that you did have Nikki Haley accusing Trump of being morally weak on China and yet will not touch his second indictment or even his first, really with a 10 foot pole to criticize him the way that Chris Christie has, for example, I think audio tape has been around with Trump for a long time. We go back to the first campaign when he sat on that bus and it's a similar type of scene here.
It's audio tape. You can't even visibly see it, but clearly I think it's indicted. I think he's self indicted. Yeah, I'm just kidding Queens.
But you know, I think anyone who listens to this and as his bruise over time, I think you can see more and more people distancing themselves. I think I hardly ever say I agree with McCarthy, but I agree with you said this. Now it's 17 months away, a lot's gonna happen and I think even Trump is gonna fall here. Camilla, what was so interesting about that comment by Speaker McCarthy?
It was almost a moment where he was being candid. Now again in the follow up interview, he tried to walk his comments back, but he said, I don't know if he's the strongest person in the general and he has to walk a fine line because he's also dealing with a group of conservative lawmakers that are watching his every move. And a lot of them do back Trump. I mean, some of the things that I've been listening to, lawmakers, Republican lawmakers say that almost voters on the ground in New York and across the country are kind of saying as well, Republicans is that this is a partisan attack on Trump.
That's something I've heard time and time again. Republicans really stress that if it's a Democrat or a former president, they wouldn't do in this, but they're doing it trying to attack him to prevent him from running for office. And that's something I heard on the ground as well, talking to Republican voters, Mark, there's a question about whether as we get closer to the debates, as we get deeper into this campaign cycle, will you see Republicans start to pounce? Will there be a chorus of voices that rises up?
You've been tracking the polls around Donald Trump for a long time. Based on what you've seen, does anything really chip away at his support? It's been happening right now that when we go through the poll numbers that we just did, this is still Donald Trump's party. I also say about Kevin McCarthy, he's reading the polls exactly the same way I am, that, yes, looking at a hypothetical general election match up, if anyone's game is Donald Trump the strongest candidate, our poll shows actually a generic candidate does better than Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis does better.
And then even when he walked it back to Breitbart News and said, well, Donald Trump's stronger than he was in 2016, that is actually also true. That's my reading of the polls as well. And I think 17 months from now, Kristen, look, it's anyone's, you know, we have a long ways to go, but we have a good idea where Republican elector is right now. Be sure to have a fascinating conversation.
Thanks to all of you for being here. Mark, Amelia, Joe and Lonnie, appreciate it. After the break, the very latest on the crisis in Russia as Vladimir Putin tries to restore his iron grip on Moscow amid the fall of this weekend's revolt. We're live in Moscow next.
You're WATCHING THE PRESS now. Welcome back. President Putin once again delivered public remarks today, the third time in just four days he's tried to address this weekend's short lived mutiny of Russian mercenaries. While standing in front of Russian soldiers and security troops.
Putin praised them for their action and their loyalty, adding that they, quote, actually stopped the civil war. For now, whatever deal struck between Moscow and Wagner Group appears to be holding Belarus president who says he helped Robert that deal confirmed today that Wagner, Yevgeny Pro Scrozhin did arrive at Belarus today. And according to Russian state media, Russian authorities also announced that they were dropping criminal charges against Prigozhin and the Wagner group. Joining me now is Kirsten is in Moscow here.
Thank you so much for joining me. So remarkably, there was yet another address from Vladimir Putin. What were your key takeaways from that and why do you think he's speaking out yet again? Well, there are multiple things happening politically here in Moscow all at once, Kristin.
It has to be. So I guess this being Russia, I think the most Striking of them, the one most on the surface, if you like, are those addresses by President Putin standing there in front of 2,500 members of his security services, his National Guard and I think the opposite of it will really count and trying to send a message to the Russian people. The king's in control. Kremlin, Putin's in charge.
He assault him overnight with that furious address not actually mentioned because he was getting Prigozhin by name but couldn't directed at him despite being national attention. And you know, all this is about just kind of making sure that the Russian people know that, you know, the real time come off that things are as they were. If you like. Is that resonating?
Well, we went out onto the streets of Moscow to talk to people and rather characterize it particulars. How do you feel about what happened over the weekend? Awful. Awful, yeah.
For me, yes. Why? Because. Because I want to live in a country without this problem as soon as my son and my family.
It's abnormal, I think. So make it that way you will. Reality is this country's lunch time zones and the problem that raised does suggest there is strong support for the president who in and we'll see where that shifts after what happens. We can just so extraordinary to hear all of your interviews on the ground there in Moscow here.
You know, Prigozhin, according to the president of Belarus, is in Belarus. What does that mean about his fate and about his standing right now here? Well, I think from what we've heard from the president, Belarus president, from President Putin, I think it gives us a picture. This is kind of digging over the surface if you like what really happened.
I think you could argue that in less than a rebellion or an uprising, what we saw here in Russia in fact was kind of the lid coming off rivalries between people around President Putin and others around him like Lukashenko trying to. Trying to put the lid back on again. So we heard from the President Lukashenko saying that he was trying to reach Prigozhin, managed to hold him through the deputy Defence Minister, spoke to him expletive latent conversations two or three times on the phone, finally managing persuade him to back down. And that I think is a description of just kind of these, all of them elites actually around President Putin kind of grappling with Prigozhin just furious and latching out really perhaps even spin arguing sort of backed into a corner and that's really what happened on Saturday.
And then fascinating to hear President Putin today talking to some of his military leaders and saying that he has actually over the last year paid Prigozhin $2 billion. $2 billion. To give you a picture of actually how close they were and how important Prigozhin was to him until very recently. Just an extraordinary moving developments.
Kirsman, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Now I would like to bring in Andrew Weiss, Vice President for Studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, where he oversees research on Russia and Eurasia. He's also the author of the book Accidentals Are the Life and Lives of Vladimir Putin.
Thank you for joining me. Good to see you. Good to see you. What do you make of what the world has witnessed over the past several days in Russia?
What is Vladimir Putin standing right now? So Vladimir Putin is the leader of Russia. He has had for 20 years or so this aura of being a czar like figure, but his record is full of big errors and big tragedies, biggest of which obviously is this criminal war in Ukraine. The war has gone very badly.
But Russia is a country run by its intelligence services. People that Putin feels comfortable with are people in the intelligence world, in the military world. And most of the people running this big address hate each other. And that's what we saw on display this weekend.
Are you surprised about what we saw on this? I think a lot of people were caught off guard. They weren't expecting this rebellion that was then aborted, if you will. But were you surprised?
Because you are clearly someone who watches very closely. Well, let's go back to Vladimir Putin was. Vladimir Putin was a mediocre officer in the Soviet KGB who topped out barely at the level of lieutenant colonel and then got catapulted to being the country's head of state basically by accident, and then way outperformed and has had a remarkable run. But as he's grown, both on the world stage and within his powers within Russia, he has built an apparatus that doesn't serve him very well.
And he tries to run it in his terms through manual control. And you see what happens when you run a war in the way the Russians are running this war. It's a disaster. The military has had failure after failure.
His only hope today is that he can outlast Ukrainians and outlast their Western friends like the United States. We've done so much reporting on the internal divisions within Putin's inner circle. And I would imagine that at a moment like this, those divisions are only exacerbated. You referenced that and then you hear that gentleman on the street who here interviewed who said, I think this is awful.
What's happening in my country. I don't want to live like this. I mean, does that raise questions about how long Putin can stay in power? They should, but they probably won't.
Tragically, that's because Russia is not adoption, not running for re election. And most importantly, the Russian elite, the people who matter in that society are either scared, complicit, opposite or passive and inert. And so long as that sort of combination prevails, and that's really been the story throughout this war. There are no defections.
There are no people who stood up saying, I have to quit my government job because my country's honor has been destroyed by Vladimir Putin. Literally. They've, you know, agreed that they're going to hang together instead of hanging separately. Why do you think Prabozhin ended his rebellion?
Yevgeny Prigozhin was using the bully pulpit in a way, in some way similar to Donald Trump. His main tools were creating sensation. He's a ghoulish trolling type figure. He used that to try to lobby the boss to get favors, to get privileges and get a large budget.
As your correspondent, just report it. That was his tool and he made a big nuisance of himself. And eventually they said, this is just getting out of control. We need to bring this person back under the roof.
And he refused to do that. Very quickly, do you think this could be a turning point in the Warren know you Ukraine? Sadly, probably not. The war on the battlefield in Ukraine turns on what the Ukrainians can do.
And this war favors people on the defense. It doesn't favor people on the offense. All right. Andrew Weiss, thank you so much for your incredible information.
Really good to see you. We appreciate it. Thank you. Silicon what the VA secretary just said about the racial equity issues within Veterans Benefit Systems and what can be done to make it right for millions.
You're watching THE PRESS now. Welcome back. We've got new developments today on an important story we've been following here at MEET the Press now, veterans of color being denied VA benefits at a higher rate than their white counterparts. The Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Dennis McGnis, spoke to the press today for the first time since the department announced a new equity team tasked with investigating why some VA benefits distributed different rates for different groups.
Here's what the secretary to our NBC's Luc about the need for the equity team. All this is new. It's demanded, I think, by both the president as well as our ongoing concern that we've talked about. Lucy, during the course of these engagements over the course of last several months and we'll stand top of it until we can assure every veteran that they get the benefits and the care that they have earned.
And my MEC News Philadelphia colleague Lucy Busamante has been reporting on the fight for equity and VA benefits. She joins me now with exclusive reaction to the VA's announcement. Lucy, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me.
Good to see you. So what has the reaction been now that this equity group has been set up after some pressure from outside group? A lot of people are wondering who is going to be on this group is going to be representative of the people that they need data for. So he announced Laureen Carson, who's a long time employee of the va, people seem to like her.
People we interviewed the work at VA in the past and she's been report to being newly confirmed undersecretary of vba, the benefits section of the Josh Jacobs, the idea person is to get data and to reach out to the veterans that have been denied. Veterans of color have been denied their benefits due to race and they're going to add lgbtq. They're going to add other groups that right now they say aren't monitored. But there's still some skepticism about this because it's been said before that they're going to correct this.
And we know that the VA has released some new data. What's in that data? What are you seeing? What's the significance?
So we've been asking in a station collaboration project with Boston, San Fran, D.C. my station, Ural Station Philadelphia, and we got some numbers finally on Friday where actually the Courtney Cubing right here, it says PTSD and mental health. The rates for 2017 to 2023, you can see black vets 65% approval rate, white vets 75% for PTSD, mental health health 69 compared to 75. And then finally all conditions of a 4% disparity.
But this is the story, Kristen, where the black veterans that we've interviewed have said I suffer from ptsd, but they think I'm just not behaving or they don't take my pain seriously or they see it as some sort of defiant behavior. No, it's PTSD and they need to take it seriously. So that's what they're trying to talk about. And I know you've been talking to some of the veterans themselves, some of the advocacy groups.
What are they all saying at this point? I'm sure that they don't feel as though enough has been done. But do they feel like These are important steps. Let me just give you an example here.
Barbara Ward used to be the director for center for Minority Veterans during the years it almost got published. And remember I brought you that 2017 data that showed you guys know you have a problem. Why haven't you acted on these numbers that you already have? So this is the person who released numbers to us that was a daily.
But just to show you Philadelphia benefits, Kristen, black veterans 32 compared to white veterans when it comes to getting their PTSD claims denied, that is a big number for one of America's largest cities with a large better population. But this is what Barbara Ward had to say, just about what she hopes doesn't happen again, which is try reinvent the wheel. I just would like to know what is going to be different because I think that's what the average minority veteran will ask. I mean they're aware that there was a diversity and inclusion committee.
They didn't see that it impacted them in a positive way. They're aware of the fact that their concerns had been raised for many, many years to Veterans Benefits Administration and, you know, nothing substantive from their perspective was done. So she's afraid that this is going to be a repeat committee by a different name. I mean, it sounds like there's a trust issue.
May she here? Yes. I mean, what are people saying to you about that aspect of this? That yes, they are seeing the VA take some steps and yet they're not able to trust that it's going to have the impact that they want to see.
You said it. Yes, ma'. Am. And here's the thing, because there is that trust issue.
Yale center for Veterans Legal Services, the Black Veterans Project, they have filed a lawsuit, has gone back and forth and they say, you know, on the front end they sound like they really mean at this time they're going to put in the right people. But then in court, the VA is trying to dismiss the case that is trying to make it right for all these veterans of colors color that have been denied for generations. So they're hoping they're actually trying to make it a class action lawsuit dating back to World War II veterinarians. Lucy Busamate, thank you for your great reporting as always.
Thank you for joining us at this hour, Chuck. We'll be back tomorrow with Warming the Press. Now the news continues with Hallie Jackson right now. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of the Drink.
This month. Demi Lovato is my guest. The global superstar tells me that she is the happiest she's ever been right now. But getting there, it wasn't simple.
Demi opens up about starting in Hollywood young and why she now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage, and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook. The Drink is always about the journey to the top, and this was an honest conversation about what that takes. Hope you'll listen and follow the Drink wherever you get your podcast.