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Yeah, if It's Wednesday Contrast of character Former Vice President Mike Pence, formerly Jennifer, Chris Christie and current Orchid governor Doug Burger all launched their presidential campaigns and all itched primary voters to back them over Trump. Plus the latest twists and turns in the special counsel's criminal probe in the former president, including new grand jury testimony and signs that charging decisions could be potentially coming anything and Smoke from the Canadian wildfires blanket the Northeast and a toxic haze triggering air quality alerts from millions. Ground stops at some of the busiest airports in the country as forecasters try to figure out how long the smoke will stick around. Welcome to Meet the Press Now.
I'm Jack Todd reporting from a yes, hazy Washington, D.C. as the Republican presidential primary is getting hot and, yeah, a little smoky. Over the last 24 hours, three new candidates have officially thrown their hats into the ring, all making overt or covert contrast of character with the current fields front runner former President Donald Trump, including two of them who are some of the chief enablers of some of Donald Trump's worst behaviors. Last night for New Jersey Congress, Christie took square aim as Trump when he announced his candidacy at a town hall in New Hampshire, calling Trump selfish and his presidency a failure.
Take a listen. Lonely, self consumed, self serving, mirror hog is not a leader. It's not amusing anymore. It's not entertaining anymore.
It is the last throes of a bitter, angry man who wants power back for himself, not for you. Interesting use of the word mirror there with those remarks. Christie appears to be relishing his role as the Trump attack dog in the primary field, but Christie comes with a heavy amount of baggage on his own. His gushing endorsement of Donald Trump after the New Hampshire primary in 2016 was one of the first instances where the Republican establishment gave Trump mainstream credibility.
Chris Christie himself was the almost lone member of the supposed establishment to go ahead and coordinate Trump, and it was a key boost for Trump's candidacy. Another major boost back then for Trump's credibility within the GOP came from Mike Pence as he was on his way to becoming Trump's vice president. This afternoon, Pence officially announced he's running against his old boss, praising the work they did in the White House, but attacking Trump for his actions on January 6 and has pushed for Pence to overturn the election illegally. The American people deserve to know that on that day, President Trump also demanded that I choose between him and the Constitution.
Now voters will be faced with the same choice. I chose the Constitution and I always will. I had no right to overturn the election and Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024. Both Pence and Christianity feel against Trump after in some ways enabling Trump and then essentially standing by him all the way up until that day, January 6th.
In addition to Christian Pence, North Co also announced this candidacy today from Fargo with a kickoff speech that didn't include any Trump style attacks or negativity. Instead, he focused on his own background and this crazy idea that you don't hear a lot from on the right these days of unity. Growing up in a small town, you learn quickly the enemy isn't each other. Our enemies aren't our neighbors down the street.
Our enemies are countries that want to see our way of life destroyed. In a country built on neighbors helping neighbors, we become a country of neighbors fighting neighbors. We should all be fighting to unite the country against our common enemies like China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and the drug cartels. Folks, all three of these million candidates have hinged their campaigns on contrast of character with Trump.
The question remains if there's any desire for an alternative to the man many Republican voters still are enamored with. Dr. Burns is following the new launch. Pence campaign analyst he Patterson is on the Brent Fargo force.
He was at the Bergam kickoff. And Vaughn Hillier, who's been on the road recently with the Trump campaign, will be here for some perspective. But Dasha, let me start with you with Vice President Pence. He is, he is taking what might be the biggest problem he'll have to win over a Trump supporter and trying to turn it into his biggest asset as a candidate.
You've been around here is, is kicking the Constitution over Trump something Republicans want to agree with him about? Well, look, Chuck, I think there's been a calculation made here that when it comes to January 6th, the only way out is through. Look, this is something that has hung over his vice presidency, now hangs over his candidacy, potentially over his legacy in the Republican Party. So the former vice president has to address it.
He has to make clear where he stands. And today he was as clear, as direct and as sharp in terms of his criticism of the former president as he could be. And when I talk to voters here in mind you, these are folks who came out to the announcement of the former president. They did find it interesting the way that he explained and walked people through what he believes, the Constitution, what He believes he should have done that day based on what is in the Constitution.
And I have one, listen, I wore a Trump hat for seven years but today I took it off and I'm open. And he really liked the constitutional argument. I mean this is something that has been a foundation for the Republican Party. So there is openness to that line of thinking.
I think the challenge is we have 10 candidates now and there is a tough path for the former vice president where he has to walk that line of look, here's what we did well in the administration. At the same time he has to take on his former boss. Tough needle to thread. But there was a response to what he, what he did and said here today.
Look, they were on message with a wifi password. Right? Checked his oath is the password for you guys to have WI fi at the announcement. I'm curious, is this a one state campaign for now that this is.
He knows it's, you know, he's got to, if he's going to make it anywhere else, Iowa's got to be the first place he makes it. It's Iowa or it's nowhere. And this is a huge focus for this campaign. This is where the evangelical base is, where they think he will have the best sort of connection with those voters.
They plan to go to all 99 counties, all 71 pizza ranches, a big main state here in Iowa and really work those retail politics. This is the best shot that he has. If, if he comes in first, huge second, okay, third, fourth, fifth, then that, that campaign loses all momentum. Yeah.
Glenn Ross, first and second place are real prizes. Third place, you're fired. And that's probably the problem he's got there in Iowa. Josh Burns with the Pence campaign.
Dasha, thanks. Let me go to Steve Patterson. Steve, you may not realize this today, but you're in a time machine because what you saw today is the way candidates used to announce for the presidency in their hometowns with their supporters in their home states, talking about what they, who they are and what they may be for rather than talking about what they think everybody on cable television was about. Tell me about it.
Because it was a throwback for me. Yeah, it certainly was a throwback. Look, I'm from suburban Detroit Automation Alley, Michigan. Our fathers were engineers for Ford and GM and Chrysler.
And so if I was talking one of my friends, I would say that this is the conservative that our fathers knew. Somebody that is, you know, focused on and low government and low taxes and policy minded focus solely on the issues. And that is certainly what Bergam pertains to be, there was sure there was mention of the president, but not in any sort of social way focused solely attacking his policies. No mention of social issues.
You didn't hear anything about woke or books. You didn't hear anything about DeSantis or Trump. Almost no mention of opponents because he wants to stick to those policy issues. Now, that's not to say that he hasn't signed off on certain social issues.
Of course, he recently signed legislation that one of the hardest states in the country to get an abortion to be transgender, certainly banning some of the rights that transgender folks have in the state. But as far as mentioning any of that in his campaign speech or throughout the campaign, as expected, he's not going to do that and he's not going to attack his opponents. So it's suffice to say it would be interesting to see whether or not this strategy works. Right.
Well, I've asked you this, Stephen. If he hadn't held office right now, I might want to dismiss this as a vanity project. I love Vivek Ramaswamy who has his own money. And it's decided, hey, why not?
I'm buying my way on the stage here. Now, he's a multi millionaire. Doug Bergman is he has some success in the tech community here. Is this a vanity project or does he have a theory of the case here?
He truly believes that in being an alternative to the rhetoric that we hear from the Republican Party in modern times, that there is this silent majority of Republicans that is out there that is waiting for a champion to believe in and to vote for and that he can stoke that even as a relative unknown, polling at something about 1% or so, that just by putting this message out here and saying you have an alternative at home, that he can make some headway job. All right, Steve Patterson in Fargo. Steve, thank you. So let's go over to Vaughn Hilliard, who's been in touch with Team Trump all day today.
And they've been very aggressive at responding to every candidacy. So I know you've been hearing a lot from them. Let's start with the reaction to Christie before I get the pence, because one line in particular, Chris Christie, describing Donald Trump this way, a lonely, self consumed, self serving, mirror hog, is not a leader. The Donald Trump I know would sort of try to throw that back, right back at Chris Christie, who himself is clearly looking for his own version of redemption here.
Right. Donald Trump in a video that he posted last night, you know, just to completely minimize Chris Christie and to diminish him as any credible figure, posted a video in which there's a graphic of Chris Christie holding a plate of food. I mean, this is the type of politics that's not even diminishing. God bless them when I talk about policy.
But that is not what Donald Trump is here to talk about. And it's not even on the credentials. It's on purely hitting back on the criticisms and Donald Trump's own recognition that Chris Christie, who helped him on debate Prep in the 2020 debate against Joe Biden just a couple years later here, is looking to take him on directly. And Donald Trump is looking to, I guess, play.
You call it mean, I guess in juvenile terms, but that's not what it is. You think they are going to show up to these early debates? I mean, you know, I've heard different theories of the case. I talked with former Governor Scott Walker.
He's pretty convinced Trump is a prize fighter and he wants to show up. And I said, yeah, the prize fighters don't fight under guards. Right. I think the big interesting point of that is just so many people are gonna be on debate stage IF with a 45,000, 45,000 donor threshold requirement.
I mean, if there's a chance that Chris Christie doesn't even make the debate stage or Asa Hudson doesn't make the debate stage and it comes down to just Nikki Haley, Vivicar Grim, Swami and Ron DeSantis at that point, he just kind of forces Sandy down on the debate st. I think that is kind of an outstanding question, you know, for Donald Trump. The other part of this weird reality is I'm watching Steve talk about being in North Dakota and Dasha talking about Iowa today. The head focus for me covering Donald Trump is very much in the back before we figure out, after we wrap up with you, it's more of a campaign for Donald Trump, him against everybody else.
And that includes the justice system, includes these Republicans who he feels like are taking the side of the deep state by undermining the MAGA movement. I mean, it's just as much political as it is to Donald Trump against the world. And it is fascinating, every one of their releases about these candidates, they want to make say, oh, this is bad for Ron DeSantis. And that's how they view this.
Right. Very quick one. Right. And this is essentially.
It's where you're coming in to defend Donald Trump here at this point. Right. That is kind of the issue here, is that they're putting on McPen's. You know, the guy ignored the last four years of serving with Donald Trump largely is looking to make this something beyond.
We shall see how that works on billiard again on the Trump Eden, as he said on the legal beat today, which I'm about to get to Vaughn, thank you. So looming over this entire primary is the potential for more criminal charges against the Fields frontrunner. Does it help him? Does it hurt him?
Today, former Trump spokesperson Taylor Butovich testified before grand jury in Florida that was tied to the special counsel Jackson's criminal investigation into Trump's handling mishling of classified documents. There's a separate grand jury that has been meeting here in Washington that also is a part of the special counsel's investigations. Possibly that's more January 6th related because remember, Smith has two investigations that are related to Trump, Trump's actions that are tied to January six and the classified documents. So while they're same investigator, they are two different investigations.
Now, Bluewich confirmed his testimony today via Twitter slamming the probes in quote, well, this is deeply trouble never to use the power of government to quote, get Trump. Meanwhile, the New York Times is reporting that former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows has already testified before Smith's grand jury, although it's unclear if he testified classified actions January6 or both. Clearly, January 6 would be the most likely n situation today. Trump lashed out at all the investigations facing him via his social media platform, calling prosecutors, quote, fascist.
So join me now is Mark Zayd. He's a charge he focuses on national security, government investigation. So Mark, let's talk about two grand juries, one in Miami, one in D.C. why does Jack Smith have multiple grand juries?
Well, most of these Espionage act cases that deal with mishandling of classified information or leaked cases to the media, the government always tries to bring them either in the Eastern District of Virginia, the CIA's backyard, or Washington, D.C. because of the expertise and experience that both the prosecutors and of course the judges have. There are some concerns from a legal perspective if some of the acts such as obstruction or mishandling down in Florida could impact the venue, meaning if they brought charges in D.C. trump could file motions to transfer the case down or parts of it down to Florida.
So the running theory right now is, and there could be many things, is that this is an effort to possibly bifurcate split the cases, to have some claims down in Florida or some in D.C. or perhaps to move everything to one jurisdiction. Butterich was pretty, pretty pro Trump in his reaction to how he testified. You would assume prosecutors knew that going in.
Why you put on a potentially antagonistic witness in front of a grand jury. Well, they still have to tell the truth, of course, or they're liable for their own incriminating behavior. What I didn't see in his tweet was anything substantive about what transpired in the grand jury, which a witness is perfectly free to do. I think that is particularly telling.
Now, I imagine he's more of a fact witness. You know, did he see documents down at Mar a Lago? Or more precisely, perhaps, did he ever hear the President of the United States declassify these magic documents or magically declassify them by his verbiage, which we've heard that Cash Patel, former Defense Department chief of staff, has made some claims and has been brought before the grand jury as well. You're aware of all the speculation that something is close, something is imminent.
Why? What has happened that gives credence to that speculation? What is actually taking place that tells you. Well, I understand why people think it could be at now because of X.
What are the X's? That's a great question. I mean, I, for one, am somewhat surprised it has taken this long for all the facts to be gathered by the grand juries and a decision to be made. I'm getting a lot of media contact and requests to prepare me for today, tomorrow, and I have no idea where this is all coming from other than people assume, I think, at this point, that we're clearly close to the end, and I think that's a fair assumption that we are.
But whether or not it is next week versus the end of July, I'm not sure. Unless someone has an incredibly close inside source to the attorney General or Smith, that anyone can really do anything but just predict. Right. Do you have any reason to believe that these would.
The charges, the charging decisions for January 6th on the classified documents would be done in the same week, or that this could be spaced out of that? I think they could absolutely be spaced out. And you could clearly. January 6th case would be in D.C.
and the classified documents and national defense information, as the statute actually calls it, could be in either jurisdiction or both. Sounds like you think it's almost. It sort of short circuits. One of the delays that could happen with this case if they just go ahead and make South Florida the location for the Mar A Lago diamond.
Well, certainly for claims of obstruction, particularly where we know, at least from media reports, that there were boxes moved, that there were plans ahead of the FBI searching as to what to do with documents that we have Evan Corbin, one of Trump's lawyers, expressing concerns that he might have been misled about whether or not documents actually classified records still existed at Mar A Lago. There are clearly a lot of facts that pertain specifically to the jurisdiction, which I guess would be the Miami District Court. Why would Miami and not the pompom B I thought isn't there? I don't think so.
But it's part of the Miami district. It is. Let me considering that the Trump folks complained about the politics of New York, New Yorkers in the Eugene Carroll case, we've heard it about D.C. would this be smart by Garland and Smith?
It's like all your home county, everybody. We'll go to Palm Beach County. That's where you're resident now. And if you're convicted there, I don't think you can have a beef about the politics.
No. D.C. for sure is predominantly Democratic by way of politics. And it would be a better jurisdiction from a jury standpoint to bring the case in D.C.
there'd be a ton of what we call war dear questioning of the jury to determine whether or not there's some sort of bias. And the Trump legal team would be able to remove jurors if that's the case. Without a doubt. It would be.
There is an optic to have it down in Florida. I'm from New York, Long Island, New York City area. There's a lot of my folks down there in his jurisdiction. So it's not necessarily a Republican venue either in that or it's probably more likely to be.
No, look, it's actually a pre Democrat county. So that's the irony there. It's like, are you gonna complain about here too? It's like, you know, it's this is the best location he's gonna get and it's still probably not a great one if he really thinks politics impacts it.
No, facts are facts. These are the jurisdictions that the facts are in play. Parts a very helpful for you against your expert teacher. This and hey, you're being prepped for any day now.
Just like. All right, thank you, sir. You are looking live right now. Pictures of New York.
Yes, if you can see it. Nothing wrong with your tv. That's the Earth cam. And folks, that's not that a filter.
That's just the air after the break. We're the latest. As dense smog and smoke from the wildfires in Canada sweep across the Northeast and the Atlantic. It has created air traffic issues and a lot of health concerns.
Better go get the masks. Watch me press now. Did you know that everyday activities like ASMR can actually be healthy for you? Right now you're improving your heart health, boosting your brain activity and lowering your stress.
Manulife wants you to see healthy living differently so you can live a longer, healthier life. Visit manulife.cahealth to learn more ways Manulife can help. Welcome back. We turn now to the growing disruption and health warnings that are facing now Millions of Americans is huge swaths of the country from New England, South Carolina contend with a toxic blanket of smoke and haze from wildfires that are raging across Canada.
Right now. New York City is the worst air quality among all major cities worldwide according to Swiss air monitoring company IQAir. Officials across 18 states of more residents to avoid outdoor activity. Flights in and out of LaGuardia were grounded this afternoon due to low visibility.
And New York City has canceled all after school outdoor programming due to health concerns. As the National Weather Service warns of another large plume of smoke descending from Canada towards New York and Pennsylvania this afternoon. More than 400 wildfires burning across Canada and about 250 considered out of control. Country is facing one of its worst starts to wildfire season on record but now by NBC News meteorologist Bill Karen.
Also with me is NBC News correspondent Tom Costello's been covering the travel delay end of this. But Bill, let me start with you and when we're going to get some relief through New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, D.C. these big four cities here all feeling it. Obviously New York, the worst.
It's not going to until the wind direction changes. Either the fires have to go out or we have to completely change the wind direction to blow all this smoke out. And for the last couple days the wind has been out of the north because of a big storm up here in the Canadian maritime and that has just been driving all of we had the one plume yesterday and then this huge plume you can see right there just went through New York City about three hours ago. Now it just went through Philadelphia.
We're gonna start to see more stuff in social media. But the Philadelphia area looks like a hurricane band the way you're describing it. It's like a band almost. Yeah, we can see it on satellite.
Almost like an outer band in nor Easter or a tropical storm or a hurricane. We can see it. We saw this morning at Syracuse air quality this morning. We keep throwing these numbers out.
It was over 400. All you need to know is that they never even had anything up to 200 previously. So this was like completely out of the measure rate. By the way, you say 200, 400.
On what scale is this? Just for my own edification okay. So anything over 500 is considered extremely hazardous. Anything over 400 is considered hazardous.
And that's not for like, that's not for the elderly and children in respiratory. As for you near anyone else outdoors, officer 400 they tell you go inside. And that's what's currently starting to happen in the New York City area. They make a tough decision if they're gonna cancel that Yankee game last night.
I know the New York City health said stay indoors. If you're outside, wear a mask. It'll be interesting to see if they cancel that game. So this is the area where it's worth.
I mean we've got air pollution right now from the smoke from Charlotte all the way up to Maine. But this is the really dangerous stuff from central New York, northeast Pennsylvania, Allentown, scran the Arizona stray now and then New York City. And we're showing you those numbers. So here's our little chart.
New York City right Now is at 392. That's in the hazardous category. New York City easily charged by the end of today. This will be the worst pollution day we've had ever in the city's modern which goes from about 1999 to now about 24 years.
And this will be worse than yesterday. We broke the old record, by the way, which happened to be from wildfires in the early 2000s. It's not just New York. You notice that Syracuse and Allentown.
And it doesn't really improve tomorrow morning. It gets less notice. D.C. tomorrow mornings at 9am It'll be the worst that you've seen it.
But it's only get slow improvement Saturdays when things should change dramatically. Wow. We've never wanted a storm from the west to blow in so fast in my life. Anyway, Bill, Karen's with the meteorological side of the story.
Bill, thank you. Let me go to the impact on travel. Tom Costello, what does this mean? I mean the northeast corridor is already super busy.
This ends up, I assume, having cascading effects all over the country. No, that's absolutely right. And you mentioned it off the top for time there. The FAA put a pause on all departures and arrivals into LaGuardia Airport.
That has since been lifted. But it is a very slow triple right now. In fact, we've got two hour delays on arrival. Look at that.
Two hour delays into arrival at LaGuardia 30 minutes on departure. Newark right now, 82 minutes on the delay situation. Philly's about 30 minutes or so. I just checked on the on the total nationwide picture.
We've got 2,400 delays nationwide, amazingly, only 120, 27 cancellations, but 2400 delays. And here are the most affected airports. Really. No surprise.
LaGuardia, Newark, Charlotte. You're thinking Charlotte. Yeah. Well, the ripple effect, right.
You got American Airlines hub there, Toronto, no surprise there. And also DCA Reagan. And the talk is that tomorrow it's going to be even worse, as you heard from Bill here in the D.C. area.
So that will of course affect Philly as well as Baltimore and Reagan and Dulles and then it will continue. The ripple effect is what we talk about. Right. It's the same thing.
Severe rain, severe snow, you start getting behind the eight ball and the airlines struggle to catch up and then that goes all the way into the evening and potentially the next day as well. So this is a really bad situation. Let's just keep in mind when you get upset about these delays, it's not the airlines doing it. No.
It's the FAA because of low visibility and they just want to keep things safe. Yeah. The airlines are not in charge of these decisions. It is all faa.
All right. With a good warning for anybody who is traveling in the Northeast tomorrow. Thank you, sir. Up next, the latest fallout from the front lines is Ukraine faces a new humanitarian emergency amid the launch of its ring counter offense.
How bad is the damage from the broken day? You're watching this PRESS now. Welcome back. We're meeting Chin close to a no showdown over the war in Ukraine.
This time inside the Republican Party amid signs of the growing divide between House Republicans and Senate Republicans over the future of what USA to Ukraine will look like. Republicans in the Senate already raising the idea of supplemental spending. Not for the Defense Department. It's a way to get round so the spending caps are negotiated between Speaker McCarthy and President Biden to raise the deficit.
There's some Republican leaders saying this deal fully funds defense. I'll be trying to get the money in the system that we need to maintain readiness. And going below inflation in this is insane. There's no money in the bill at all for Ukraine.
If your first process is any supplemental, you're not paying attention. Not you, but the senators are not paying attention to how the system works. We will go through the implementation process and we need the numbers of use of reach. Well, it all comes at a critical moment in this war after a major attack on Ukrainian dam and as Steve reads its long anticipated counter offensive.
Joining me now is our Kremlin ologist Michael McCall, the former ambassador to Russia. NBC News international affairs analyst Mike, about two months ago, the Pentagon magically found an accounting error that allowed it to find $3 billion more aid to Ukraine. I don't know if there's more accounting errors that can be found between now and then, but what should Ukraine's level of concern be about this debate between essentially Lindsey Graham and Kevin McCarthy? They should be concerned because we're all talking about the counter offensive.
Right? Check. We're waiting for it. May it's happened, but my prediction is there have to be multiple counter offensives.
The idea that this war is just going to end after a few months of fighting I do not think will be true. I hope it's true. I hope Ukrainians can push the Russian occupiers out in the next several months. But if they can't, they have to plan for new counter offensives in the fall, in 2024, in 2025.
And so therefore they're going to need support from us. I fear for a lot more time than most Republicans now are talking about. I'm not as worried about it happening because there's a majority in the House for this now. It's not a majority of the Republican conference, but one could see the outlines of how this works.
And you and I both know we had a Democratic Party that was not not in favor of the Iraq war in 0607. But Nancy Pelosi always makes supplementals go through. That's a great point. You know that history better than that.
Thanks for reminding me. That is a great point. And secondly, I would say a lot will also depend on the success of the counter offensive. Let's remember that if it's successful, we like winners in the United States.
There will be more support. And my sense of talking to officials in Kyiv is they fully understand that. I want to ask you about a couple other developments. Were you surprised to learn that we knew in advance that Ukrainian special forces were thinking about sabotaging or stream and that if that's the case, we did nothing about it?
No, honestly, I wasn't surprised. We have a great intelligence community. We have great resources that allow us to know these things. Just because you and I don't get to hear about them doesn't mean that the US Government doesn't.
And the fact that they didn't react, I think was the proper response. Some other this weird notion sometimes in the debate about this war is that Ukraine's just supposed to defend its territory. Yes. They're not allowed to do what every other country has done in the course of human history when fighting wars.
And I just think we got to get used to that fact. They're fighting a war. They're allowed to take on targets that they think are military targets. And unlike Mr.
Putin, they tend to focus just on military targets, not civilian targets. Well, do you think that there's some strategy here that might be smart, that the more attacks in Moscow, the more where there's clearly a debate inside, at least the defense side of things, between Prigozhin and Putin's defense minister there. Do you think these attacks only help create, you know, soak that divide even more? I think it's creating a lot of anxiety inside Russia, for sure.
Even some of the Putin propagandists now are talking about a ceasefire. They never expected the war to come to their borders. And in Belgorod, too, remember that operation there that was shocking to people in Russia. And the next thing I think we should watch for is will the Ukrainian armed forces take the battle to Crimea?
I suspect they will if they have the opportunity to do so. And that will be symbolically very serious in Moscow, among the elite, they never expected they might lose some of the territory that they had gained in 2014, and now it might be put into play. How I get your reaction to this PGA Tour Live. Saudi.
Basically, the Saudi government's purchase of professional Golf Global. And I say this because Joe Biden campaigned on making Saudi a pariah state. If he's made a pariah state, this is quite a successful pushback by the Saudi government. It doesn't look a pariah state to me.
I agree. I was disappointed. I'm kind of shocked that it happened so fast that there was a debate. I mean, there are no congressional hearings about this.
Think about it, Chuck. Like, if this were the Chinese, we'd be having a huge debate about it. We want to. Isn't that the Saudis get away with this?
Do you want us to go work with the Chinese? And so we just capitulate as a government. We capitulate as a set of private business leaders. I mean, look, as much as the PGA looks really shameless here, it's the American government that said it's okay to do business with me.
Yes. When the president fist bumped. I agree, and I don't think it's smart. I knew Jamaica Shobi, who was assassinated, murdered, killed by this regime.
Let's not forget that. I hope the PGA doesn't forget that, by the way, maybe they could honor him in some way at one of their tournaments. But in the long term, I think we just got to have a readjustment about what is in America's. National interests and selling out for short term things, thinking that we're losing influence, just like you said to the Chinese or in this case also the Russians has a relationship with mbs.
I think we got to think longer term and think about energy in a different way and think about our morality in a different way. If we are in a long term struggle with the Chinese, which I think we are for the 21st century, one of our greatest assets in that is democracy and human rights. When we compromise that, we lose one of our greatest advantages vis a vis the Chinese Communist Party. Then everything becomes a zero someday.
Ambassador McFall, always good to get your perspective on things. Thanks, sir. Thanks for having me. I'm going to dive deeper, by the way, into the Saudi PG2 situation.
But first we're going to diver into the clash of the campaigns as the former president faces growing field of folks for Republican nomination. Is it just what he wants? Dallas next. I am proud to be here to endorse Donald Trump for president of the United States.
I've been on that stage. I've got to know all the people on that stage. And there is no one who is better prepared to provide America with the strong leadership that it needs both at home around the world than Donald Trump. Welcome back.
That was Chris Christie 7 years ago throwing his support behind Trump after his own presidential bid failed spectacularly. And here's Christie last night speaking to his supporters about his 2016 strategy as he enters his 2024 field. It was a mistake in 2016 not to confront Donald Trump early because I knew there's so much what he said we could people know me, okay. You heard what he said about Donald Trump at the beginning there and what he said last Christie's past name make him an imperfect messenger of Trump criticism.
But his candidacy raises a bigger question. He's an anti Trump candidate with the party, actually wants me now for our panel today, former Democratic congressman from New York, J. Crockey, former Republican congressman Illinois Rodney Davis, I'll start with you. Is Chris Christie too flawed of a messenger to make this case?
I think he's pretty flawed. And I think that Trump and a lot of Republicans are going to be troubled by the flip flopping that has occurred over the years. But you raise a bigger point, which is what does the Republican electorate want out of a candidate? And it doesn't seem like they want a Trump detractor.
They possibly want someone who can take them beyond Trump, but there's no evidence that they want someone who will go up against Trump. And that's I think, where there might be a difficulty for Chris Christie to make a lane for himself. Mike Pence tried to go against him too, I would argue. You tried the Mike Pence approach, right?
You've been out there. You know what this electorate wants. Are they buying it feels like Chris Christie selling cat food to dogs. Like, are they buying this?
Look, I consider vice president fans and Governor Christie France. But in this race, it is much different than 2016. Donald Trump is a known quantity to the American people and right now only shows most Republicans favor him as their nominee. I saw Governor Christie a few months ago here in D.C.
and I believe that, you know, I didn't sit and have a long conversation with him, but Chris Christie knows that he's a very good debater. And in 2016, he evisrated my candidate, Marco Rubio on the debate stage. Chris Christie can do that again in his mind to Donald Trump. In his mind.
He just said it in his mind. Jo, I go back. If he was such a good debater, why was it only that moment? Where was he?
He was on the other debates too. And he couldn't take down Trump and he couldn't take down Kasich and he couldn't. So he took down a guy who wasn't a threat but wouldn't primary anywhere. I don't know how impressed we all should be.
I think what Chris lacks in terms of authenticity within the party structure itself and certainly this field, he does make up in terms of his veracity. His, you know, his. He's fearless. He's fearless and he can drop.
He can drop as well as chunk can. I think he also has the experience as a government prosecutor, as a former governor. He's been around a lot of this as well. And I also think, you know, with all due respect to everything, January 6th changed everything for many people.
I think he has that as an excuse, as a reason. Isn't Mike Pence better position? He should be. I mean, and he has done it to an extent.
He made more part of his announcement than I expected. To be Frank, I was surprised at how front center and I understand my data, he's like, in order to support him, you gotta get over that fact, right? You gotta address it. Because that is such a part of his identity, his identity and his story as it relates to Donald Trump.
But Mike Pence has pulled punches at times. Mike Pence has gone after Trump and then the next statement hasn't been as strong. And I think that's why Chris Christie thinks he can be that person. You know, almost like a sacrificial lamb.
I wonder if he kind of envisions himself in that way. But again, I don't know if you're talking about just Republicans just in the primary. I don't know if January 6th is as much of a deciding factor as it might be in a general election. Roddy Dunburg he just reminded me of throwback candidates and I say that as a compliment, like he was even did an announcement the way it used to be done, not the way we do it today.
It seems like a long shot that anybody will consider that he does have his own mind and that obviously early can at least help get you in the conversation. We'll see if that translates to him getting on the debate stage. I sat with Governor Bergman in his office in North Dakota about two years ago for an hour. Great guy.
Great. I find him fascinating. Fascinating. But he's not going to be fascinating enough.
Right now the Republican primary left right now it's a two person race between Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis and Trump is going to try to destroy DeSantis because he sees him as his top competition. But the candidate, the candidate that scares Democrats the most is Senator Tim's got. Yeah, you agree that. I think it's this subject to that.
I think he really works into what was really a large portion of the base of the Democratic base. In particular African American men who haven't been as loyal advisors who are petrified of how much they lost African American men the last time. And Kamala Harris didn't help with that, so they thought she would. I think that's the issue.
Unlike other African American candidates who have run as Republicans before, this is different. See, I will say this about Tim Scott. He has been squishy on abortion, which I never expect, but I think it's smart. He has not gotten stuck on six weeks.
He's not getting stuck repentance once ago. He seems almost like, look, I've got those credentials but I realize the country's not where they are. And I think that what we're all saying is it's beneficial to Tim Scott in the general election. Yes, he's got to win primaries first.
And how does he do that? Being squishy on abortion instead of being staunchly anti abortion. Trump squishy on this too. Well, Trump has shown that he can play by different rules than everyone else and that's just the truth.
It hasn't damaged him the way that I think people might hold it against other candidates as they decide whether they're going to turn away from Donald Trump. Right. Look, I think this guy's the experiment I'm curious about. Right.
Because normally candidate A and candidate B each are up. Candidate C benefits and he's the best position candidate seat right now financially. Do you think though, his abortion position actually is too moderate for this leopard or not with a Trump DeSantis battle royale? I don't think abortion is going to be the number one issue that's going to be discussed in the month that fights.
And frankly, I think Senator Scott has looked at his home state, member of Congress, Nancy Mays, to realize, you know, Nancy was able to kind of spread the wheel and win by a very big margin in a very marginal district. And I think he saw some benefit of not engaging. He knows where his credentials are on this issue. But in the end, Tim Scott is the best position candidate to come in if Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump destroy each other like we've seen candidates.
No, he does and he financially has it. You know, I guess if you're the Democrats here, Joe, do you just sit back and watch or do you. Do you notice that Tim Scott's a problem and you try to help Republicans make sure they don't know? I think with such a large field, it goes back to again, who's the large field benefit?
I think it does benefit still Donald Trump. I think it really depends on what damage can be done to trouble can actually stink and what will matter in Republican primary. And can anyone actually rise? Can any of this premium, if it exists, rise and can.
Can any of them actually break through? I think that's the real question. It's a great idea that I encourage everybody to read that. Scott Walker wrote that for me.
Felt like a Dear Ron letter, which was. He talked about. He Ms. He tried to run his record and he's like, Trump ran an idea and these guys need to find an idea.
And that's the same. He basically was giving DeSantis advice. I don't know if he's. And it's funny, I haven't seen the op ed, but that's what I've been thinking is what lane are all of these candidates creating for themselves?
And it doesn't seem to find one Lane. But you gotta make your own. You gotta make your own. And I think DeSantis Lane is.
I can be Justice Maga, more Maga, but not Trump. But there's. It's not clear if that's a winnable lane. What are the winnable lanes?
Yeah, it's a good idea. I hope people Take a look at it because it's basically I blew it that I should listen to. Consulting Tia, Joe and Ronnie. Thank you guys.
Still to talk, we're talking about Saudi Salah. Why the deal between PGA and LIV is Shaping up the World's world of Golf and geopolitics. Welcome back. Yesterday, the PGA announced a stunning about face, a major merger with its biggest rival, Live Golf.
The move has sent shockwaves to the sports world and beyond. Live Golf, of course, was backed back by Saudi Arabia's public investment fund, which is controlled by the crown prince. It's faced plenty of criticism since its inception with accusations of sports washing using the sport to distract from the kingdom's history of gross human rights violations, including the murdering of journalists, including the Washington Post journals. PGA even barred its players from participating in any tournaments.
And as we earlier Biden administration has a complicated relationship with Saudi Arabia. But here's what one of the Senate top voices on foreign policy, Senator Chris Murphy, had to say earlier today. Let's be honest. The Saudis aren't buying the PGA because they love golf.
They're buying the PGA because they want to erase their Disney campaign of political repression. Joining me now is sports columnist at the Washington Post, Sally Jenkins. She's also author of the new book the Right Call, what Sports Teaches Us About Work and Life. Well, Sally, I think you think this is the right call for the PGA Tour.
What I want to get at is what is Rory McElroy and Tiger woods thinking right now? Well, to use Rory McElroy's exact words, they're thinking they were sacrificial lambs for PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan, who persuaded them to remain loyal to the PGA Tour. They're now discovering that Jay Monahan was loyal primarily to himself. And the same with a couple of PGA Tour policy board directors who have very interesting potential conflicts of interest here.
There's a member of the PGA Tour board named Edward Hurley whose law firm is handling this merger. They'll get all kinds of huge fees out of it. And so the question is really, who's this deal in the best interest of? I mean, that question really remains unanswered.
And the PGA Tour has yet to explain why this is good for their players. So my only thesis I could come up with is the PGA Tour was up against somebody that didn't care how much money they lost, and that is a scary opponent and that Liv could have bankrupted. If Jaymon hands excuses, either we bankrupt the PGA Tour or we merge. And that's why I did It.
I. I guess I could understand that line of thinking, because I think that is true. I think Liv was willing to lose money for years. That may very well be true.
But the fact of the matter is that Liv was not really a threat to the PGA Tour's own business. That's where the story sort of falls apart. Liv was not commanding a television deal. It wasn't commanding ratings.
It wasn't really commanding any sponsorship. You know, it wasn't wounding the PGA Tour. The only thing that was conceivably wounding the Tour was legal fees. It's hard to see.
It's really hard to see how any of these rationales are in the best interest of the PG Tour clip. Let me be more cynical. I'm well aware the politics of golf fans. I've studied the politics of all sports fan bases on a sports junkie.
So that's always been of interest to me. I think it's always interesting. Also among the most conservative. Why do I think that the people most worked up about Saudi were the people least likely to watch a PGA tournament?
And that, unfortunately, the PGA Tour figured this out? You know, look, I. I can't explain the motives in this thing, apart from money. That's it.
To me, it's like, follow the money, go back to the money. That appears to be the only genuine, sincere motive in any of this, quite frankly. Well, then the scary thing is, is you got a Biden administration who. Look, you know, four days before the infamous fist buck between President Biden and mbs, the Biden Justice Department announced an investigation about the Gulf Tour.
Not live, but pga. Like the American government fell on itself to almost give the Saudis what they wanted here. You know, it's fair. That's.
That's a good point, and it's a curious point, but I would actually say that the Justice Department may well take a look here at the dealings of the PGA Tour Policy Board with the Saudis, because it's hard. You can't exactly accuse the PGA Tour of forming, you know, of monopolistic behavior and then let them off the hook, performing a bigger monopoly. Right. You know what I'm saying?
Yes. Yes, I do. So do you have a concern now that. You know, I feel like our culture shifted a little bit here.
There's a whole bunch of, well, you got yours, go get yours. Don't worry about it. You use your money anyway, and then all of a sudden, it's gonna open the door for more sports watching by the Saudis. I think it absolutely does.
It also opens the door look, they've ceded. If this deal goes through, and I'm by no means yet convinced that it will go through. If the deal goes through, they have allowed a single Saudi financier and arguably the predator behind him to really control all the commerce around golf worldwide. The Saudis are not going to spend two, three billion dollars buying golf and then sit around and not do harm to any conceivable competitors.
They will. They will. They will use it to humiliate Western businesses. I'm convinced of that.
And it's not going to make the world a better place or a more fiscally fair place for go. It's going to really limit things not open. And they put it all in the hands of one person. Why did they do that?
How does that help the golfers? It doesn't make any sense. Sally Jenkins, I'm running out of time. It's always a pleasure to read you and to hear from you on this as well.
So thank you. Thank you all for being with us this hour. I'll be back. More with more meetups now.
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