Meet the Press NOW — May 14

If it's Tuesday, Michael Cohen, the prosecution's star witness, and Donald Trump's hushman case, now faces a tense, cross-examination after testimony, directly telling the legal scheme to Trump. Plus, the sleeper Senate race that suddenly has everyone wide awake, and reliably boo Maryland, where Democrats are fighting over the future of the party and the state that could decide which party controls the Senate. And new signs that Israel could be poised to invade Rafa, decide U.S. warnings and threats to withhold weapons, as troops gather on the edge of southern Gaza where hundreds of thousands of civilians are sheltering.

Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Yamiche Alcindor, on day two of Michael Cohen's testimony, and Donald Trump's hushman trial, with defense attorneys now grilling the man who once worked as a former president's fixer. This afternoon, Trump's attorneys began their cross-examination confronting Cohen with some of his public statements lashing out at the former president during the trial that came after a day and a half of testimony in which Cohen laid out the former president's involvement in the hushman scheme to keep Stormy Daniels silent about their alleged affair. Cohen testified that he made those payments at Trump's direction, and he said that they were acting to protect his campaign, and that Trump himself was part of the effort to cover them up as legal services.

This morning, as he entered the court, the former president spoke to reporters once again repeating baseless claims and conspiracy theories about the nature of the trial. The game-daughter has to come off, so when you ask me a question about the people that we're talking about, I'm not allowed to answer, there's never been anything like this in the history of our country. It's a scam. It's election interference at a level that's never taken place before.

Today prosecutors confirm that Michael Cohen will be their final witness, at which point the defense will lay out its case before proceeding to closing arguments. Right now, it's unclear if Donald Trump will take the stand in his own defense. As the legal case unfolds, we're also watching a political show of support from some of Trump's most ardent allies. Today, they were in the courtroom in a show of loyalty to Trump while echoing his unfounded claims about the case.

I've never seen anything like it. This is a joke. It is a farce. It is a travesty.

We are better than this as Americans. I will tell you right now, the same way that I stand here steadfast behind our president. I know that America stands with him as well. They see the sham indictment.

They see this for what it is without any actual substance whatsoever. This is a sham. This is not the United States of America. This is some third-rate banana republic.

If this were happening in another country, we would be laughing at them as a sham democracy. For more, I'm joined by NBC News National Corresponding. I've been just zooking outside the courthouse in Manhattan. Also with me are two NBC News legal analysts, Danny Svalus, who's also a criminal defense attorney and Katherine Christian, who's also a former Manhattan district attorney, assistant district attorney.

Thank you so much, all of you for being here. I want to start with you. What has been the tone of the defense attorneys' cross-examination so far as they take on, of course, Michael Cohen? He's been somewhat all over the place when it comes to cross-examination, which is about two hours into this thing, and he keeps jumping back and forth when it comes to Michael Cohen's credibility, kind of chipping away at his credibility.

I see this as stages of grief, starting off with, first of all, how Michael Cohen has this axe to grind with Donald Trump, and then subsequently going towards this media-hungry individual who has a podcast, who is seeking out a job, who was on CNN, who was on MSNBC, who was trying to leak information to media outlets throughout his time after 2020. And then they move on to how Michael Cohen was treated by Donald Trump subsequently, how he was treated while he worked for him, and he saw Donald Trump as a father figure, and he paid him well. When he was hired in 2007 and he paid him a salary of $375,000 a year with $125,000 bonus, and how could you go after a man that was treating you so well, and he was a good man, wasn't he? And you said he would make America great again, didn't you?

It's gone on like that throughout the last couple of hours, and then it was, you lied, you lied, you lied. And then you talk about that now, how Michael Cohen had lied many times, one of them, how we notably know what was under oath, and this is something that we have predicted when it came across examination. I think it's interesting though, Yamiche, that I'm thinking about and looking for as we continue to watch this cross examination, is they have not yet approached the timeline during direct from Susan Hoffinger. They really kind of ticked through the timeline, kind of building this case, when it came to conversations, especially that were had in the lead-up, the payout to Stormy Daniels, and especially in January and February of 2017 after Donald Trump had become president, setting up those payments at $35,000 a month payment, or reimbursements as Michael Cohen put it to pay back the $130,000 that was paid off by Stormy Daniels.

They have not quite gotten into that timeline, trying to poke holes in that timeline. It'll be interesting how it is Todd Blanche gets into that timeline, and how he subsequently tries to poke holes in that timeline, but certainly wanting to set up this idea of lacking credibility before they get into that, Yamiche. Such interesting stuff. And I also want to ask, yesterday, we saw Michael Cohen that we did not see when he saw the cable news.

He was uncharacteristically modest. He was measured. What was his demeanor today on the stand? He's different now in cross examination.

I think all of us expected this, and I'm sure Danny and Catherine can speak more to this when you get into it with them. But yesterday, he was very succinct. He answered the questions that he was asked. He gave a lot of yes or no answers saying yes, ma'am, and no, ma'am.

Here he is trying to hold up. It seems Todd Blanche a little bit more, not necessarily wanting to admit, for instance, to lying and said, instead saying, well, it sounds like something I would say, or it sounds like something I would do, or it seems as if that is what I did, and Todd Blanche reiterating the question that he asked them, and then Michael Cohen reiterating, well, yes, that sounds about right. And so kind of trying to hold up Todd Blanche's questioning, it seems, and also the momentum that he's trying to gain in this cross examination. I imagine he'll be having conversations with his personal attorney tonight about his cross examination, how he'll be on the stand tomorrow, but certainly a different tone today during this cross, specifically, whether or not I'll make him his during direct, when Michael Cohen talked about when his apartment was raided, along with how he felt when he received support from Donald Trump, a phone call, the last phone call, by the way, from Donald Trump after his apartment was raided.

He looked to the jury specifically throughout this entire time, he's been speaking directly to the attorneys, both Susan Hoffinger and also now Tom Langer in cross examination. In those moments, he looked to the jury specifically to say how hard it was on his family, how worried he was, how anxious he was, not only that his apartment was being raided, but then when he received the call from Donald Trump saying, listen, I got you buddy, I'm paraphrasing here, we're going to take care of this, you're going to be okay, that he felt that support and loyalty still, even in that moment after his apartment had been raided in both those instances, somewhat trying to humanize himself, it seems looking to the jury to communicate that image. Interesting, Stefan, Danny, I want to come to you as a defense attorney, what do you make of Todd Blanch's cross examination what we've seen so far? I'm reading it and the Google Doc, as we all know, so I'm not in there hearing it, but I got to say, I sympathize with defense counsel, they're all very able, they're all very talented, but look, I think they may be suffering from an embarrassment of riches, there's just so much to go after Michael Cohen about, it's difficult to organize it, and Michael Cohen is being difficult, not the most difficult that he could have been, but certainly mid-range difficult.

He's not fighting on each and every question, but also some of the questions are leaving him a little wiggle room. If you ask him, for example, I'm paraphrasing, but is it fair to say you're motivated by fame? Is it fair to say? Michael Cohen's going to take that and turn it right back on defense counsel.

So I think it's a combination of maybe a little lack of organization on the questioning, and Michael Cohen pushing back, not as much as Stormy Daniels, but certainly pushing back some. I just want to ask you, of course, Danny, about this entourage that we saw Donald Trump go into the courtroom today with, are you concerned that the appearance of prominent Republicans by House Speaker Mike Johnson, that could influence the jury in this case? Look, you're always hoping that people come to watch a defendant, if you're a defense counsel, like mom, dad, the kids, relatives, friends, maybe even influential friends, but influential friends on this order is something that I got a lot of criminal defense attorneys I've experienced with. So I guess from a criminal defense perspective, it might be helpful, but it might also be a massive distraction.

And look, you have jurors who may be sophisticated enough to understand what's really going on if they recognize those faces, and if they see some of those politicians in the courtroom, they may not see it as traditional support for a defendant, but rather a political move designed to further the politician's own interests. So it's hard to say how that's playing, mostly because who's ever seen that in a courtroom? Who has ever seen that in a courtroom? It's a good question, and I can't see them all standing there, not that they're all dressed alike.

It's all a little surreal. But Katherine, I want to come to you. The prosecution is effectively done presenting its case. They're going to have closing arguments.

But how they do, in your opinion, do you think they met the burden beyond a reasonable doubt here? I think they did. Well, the jury will decide that. But what they did, which was smart.

I wouldn't have ended with Michael Cohen, but that's a style. They made sure to have enough testimony that he had nothing to do with. That was corroborated. His banker, Stormy's lawyer, starting off with David Pecker, I thought was very smart.

He outlined what their conspiracy was. So when Michael Cohen testified, it was just basically the jury saying, okay, we heard this. That's what his lawyer said. That's what Stormy David's lawyer said.

That's what his banker said. That's what Hope Hicks said. So the prosecution did a good job with that. However, the reason why they called him is because they need him.

He's the one who said that Donald Trump said, just get it done. He's the one who's saying that Donald Trump knew that they were falsely classified as legal expenses. That's why the defense attorney, as Danny says, they have a bunch of information that they can go after him, are going after him so hard with his credibility. Tomorrow they have off.

The prosecutor will not be able to speak to Mr. Cohen, but he has a personal lawyer who might say to him, just say yes and no. Don't say it sounds like it possibly. Also, there are two lawyers under the first team, no offense to Mr.

Blanche, who are far more skilled cross-examiners than he is. Maybe the three of them will huddle and then do something a little different on Thursday. And you bring up the issue of credibility, prosecutors, and we imagine, had known that the Trump lawyers were going to go after Cohen's credibility here, do you think that they tried to pre-butt that, that they did a good job of trying to get ahead of some of that? My only critique with Susan Horfinger, who did an excellent job in direct, is that she should have leaned more into Michael Cohen's hatred of Donald Trump.

There's nothing wrong with the fact that he hates Donald Trump. He has a reason to hate Donald Trump. So, bring out the TikTok. Bring out that, you know, he has a t-shirt with Donald Trump in bars.

So, when it's across examinations, the jury has already heard that. So, that's my only critique. She should have leaned more into Cohen's basically hatred of Donald Trump. And yes, and I want to come back to you, the president had this political entourage that we saw in court today.

And including, as you said, the House Speaker, who else was there, and what would he say? So, you said, Speaker Mike Johnson, the background of Swami, Governor Doug Burgum, Corey Mills, I'm looking down at my list here. You should make sure I get it all right, Representative Byron Daniels as well. We heard from all of them at some point today, earlier on, especially after they came out of the courtroom, and they all had the same message, which is the same message by the way that Donald Trump has had this entire time as well, which is this is the sham trial, and this is, you know, they're politicizing the justice system, and there's no reason this trial should even be happening.

And they don't even say, for instance, that Donald Trump is not guilty because they don't even believe this trial should actually be going on. They actually had the opportunity, by the way, to speak to, to Vic Rama Swami earlier today. I asked him a couple of questions about why he was here, first and foremost, if he would continue to support Donald Trump, if in fact he was found guilty, he said, yes, by the way, he would, why he was here. He said he came on his own position and asked him if the former president actually asked him to come, because by the way, the former president was calling them all his quote unquote, sir, he gets in the hallway outside the courtroom earlier today.

He didn't identify himself, though, as his sir, he said more so than he was just here on his own position. I asked him if Donald Trump had asked him to be vice president or if he would consider it. He said, yes. And I said, listen, you have called him a store loser.

You said, after January 6, his behavior was a point that here you are, supporting the former president of the United States, and again, kind of reiterating what we've heard from so many of them, which is Camp Trial, politicizing the Justice Department. I think the big question is who's going to be here tomorrow, you know, that's a big question. And Danny, the defense will begin presenting its case in the coming days. How do you expect them to make their case in the jury?

And would you, if you were doing this, if you were part of this team, would you call Donald Trump to the stand? They may call zero witnesses. We may see no defense case, because they may take the position that they have enough to argue reasonable doubt and not, and just stand on the fact that the prosecution has the burden to prove its case. When you start calling witnesses, you only call them if you really, really need information out of them, because it's a risk.

Then you sort of shift the burden, not really, but you sort of shift the burden when you start putting on your own evidence, and you never know what landmine you're going to step on. So I'm starting to think that the defense may end up calling zero witnesses, rest, and then argue things like there's insufficient evidence that Donald Trump actually directed the falsification of the business records. He doesn't need to actually come over with a pen and falsify them. That's not what the jury instructions require, but the defense might argue on that point and maybe the intent of defraud, those might be some points they'll argue on, but I'm starting to think there's a real possibility that we won't see any witnesses from the defense.

That would be fascinating. Thank you so much. You have something Danny and Catherine for all for getting us started and coming up. The courtroom and the campaign trail collide will have more on the politics of the Trump trial as a growing list of former presidents, political allies, and VP contenders show their support in court.

But first, the battle for control of the Senate, we're spotlighting Maryland's competitive and expensive Senate primaries. Voters head to the polls. We've got new NBC news reporting from the ground and Steve Bernanke at the big board. You're watching me the press now.

Welcome back, as we say around here. If it's Tuesday, voters are voting somewhere, and today that somewhere is Maryland, Nebraska, and West Virginia, three states that are each holding primary elections, the marquee contest is a Democratic Senate primary race in Maryland. It's a race that started out as a battle for the future of the Democratic Party, but it has turned into a potentially key race in the fight for Senate control in November. NBC News' Julie Serkin traveled to Maryland to talk to the candidates and voters, but what did they say in this election?

A safe blue seat is suddenly competitive, with former Governor Larry Hogan's last-minute entry in Maryland's Senate race. Before they could take on Hogan, Democrats must first take out one another in one of the nation's most bitter and expensive primary contests, three-time congressman David Trone, pouring at least $61 million of his own money to beat Prince George's County Executive Angela also Brooks. Nobody should be able to buy a seat. This is not what democracy looks like.

But Trone argues that his fortune earned by co-owning the country's biggest alcohol chain buys him independence. Everyone likes success. That's the American dream. It's also a dream for Democratic fundraisers who rather spend their stockpile defending other seats.

90 percent of self-funders, 90 percent lose, because they don't have good ideas and they don't do the work. I do the work. While spending also Brooks 9 to 1, the race is tight. Also Brooks hopes she can make history by becoming the first black woman sent to the Senate from Maryland.

I want a woman in office. I would love to see a woman because this is the era of women. Roughly a third of the state's voters are black. What we hear from so many diverse voters is when someone actually speaks for us, someone who has our values.

And Trone suggests he has more in common with them than his opponent does. I went to public school. She went to private school. So I lived the life they did.

I didn't even have anywhere plumbing. We had an outhouse. And I grew up in a family that was destroyed by alcoholism, destroyed. As a child, also Brooks fled the Jim Crow South, her family finding refuge in Maryland.

Day, she leads the state's second largest county. There, she was a public prosecutor and made history as the district's first black woman DA. On the key issues, she and Trone have plenty in common. The portion is a huge issue for me.

Though the procedure is legal, in November voters will decide whether to enshrine abortion rights in the state's constitution. Oh, it is absolutely devastating. The people in our state here understand, again, not only what is at stake for women in Maryland, but they care about women in other states. Yeah, it's going to be a big deal this year.

I mean, what happened with Roe? Everyone realized these elections have big consequences. It's a weak point for Hogan, the popular ex-governor who was positioning himself as a middle-of-the-road candidate. This is a good way to ruin your legacy.

Go ahead and lose some election. What's that important? I have to step up and do it. Having bucked Donald Trump, the top of the ticket is probably not going to do that well.

He hopes it'll be enough to flip the Democratic stronghold. Hogan vows to leave abortion rights up to the states. I was attacked by both of the other challengers, saying I'm going to be the deciding vote on the national abortion man. I said, no, I would never vote for the national abortion man.

Would you support to end the filibuster, though, as some Republicans are saying they might try to do to pass some abortion restrictions? I think no. It's a filibuster, I think. My whole career is about bipartisanship.

And NBC's Julie Serkin joins me now on set, so Julie, that was great reporting. Thank you so much for bringing it to us. So you, of course, have been all over the state of Maryland. You talked to both candidates, which is a great gift for you.

You also talked to voters. So what's at stake in this race? Well, voters tell me, first and foremost, when they're talking about these two candidates in the Democratic primary, that they have to pick the one that they think has the best shot at beating Hogan in November. That said, Hogan still has to win his primary today.

His team feels very confident about it. I talked to them a couple hours ago. But regardless, that's voters' number one concern on their minds. They see Angela also Brooks, who we mentioned, leads the second largest county, Prince George County in Maryland as their county executive.

They say she doesn't have enough experience, perhaps, enough name recognition, enough money behind her like David Tron does. He's a three-time congressman. He infused nearly $62 million in the primary loan, making it the most expensive, the most amount of money any candidate spent on any Senate primary ever. So pretty big deal there.

I mean, it's a huge deal when you lay it out like that. I mean, the fact that he poured his own money as he said more than $62 million, how much is money going to matter? Not just in the primary, but also in the general election here. Well, certainly going to matter a lot because Maryland is not necessarily one of the seats that Democratic strategists, that the establishment and the Democratic Party, had in mind when they were thinking about, where are we going to put our cash?

How are we going to spend our stock mile? Because they have a lot of seats. They have to defend. This is a really competitive cycle for Democrats.

Maryland being the one state that could potentially flip control of the Senate to Republicans or help them retain the majority next year. That's something they're really paying attention to. So I think they strategically stayed quiet on this. And certainly Tron has demonstrated that he's willing to put in millions and millions more from an empire that he earned by co-owning the nation's largest alcohol chain.

Yeah. Also, of course, the other person that's racist, as you said, also Brooks. And she would make history, you said, as the first African-American woman from the state of Maryland to go to the Senate if she won. In November, talk about the importance of race and identity in this race.

Well, I don't know if you caught this, but in the piece, we have an exchange with Tron because I asked him, I said, what are you doing to outreach, to get that outreach to Black voters in the state? Nearly a third of the electorate in Maryland, those voters are Black, so both candidates know they need that vote. Tron's response to me was, listen, I had this tough upbringing. My family was destroyed by alcoholism.

I had an outhouse. I asked him, though, that's the story you think would resonate with those voters. And he said, yes, that he's the underdog in this race and that his establishment anointed in his words, his opponent. Also, Brooks campaign was very quick to jump on that overnight, as you can imagine.

They sent out this statement from Black elected officials in Maryland calling Tron completely out of touch for his comments. He's had some slip-ups when it comes to racial slurs in the past two, just a couple of months ago during congressional hearing on Capitol Hill, but voters I spoke to also really like the fact that aside from other qualifications, also Brooks would be the first, not just Black women, but Black person period, to go to the Senate from Maryland. Well, quite a race to watch. And this is quite some interesting comments there from Tron, so thank you so much for all your reporting.

Thank you. Let's go over to the big board with Steve Cornakis to Steve. How does the Senate race in Maryland, how does it fit into the bigger picture when it comes to the 2024 Senate app? Yeah.

I guess the question is, does it fit into the bigger picture? I certainly will see who the Democrats nominate tonight. There has been scant polling. There's been a little bit of it, though, testing general election match-ups and Larry Hogan.

You know, a popular two-term governor has led both of these prospective Democratic candidates in the polling so far. So if you take a look at the Senate map nationally, and you see Maryland right now, obviously currently a Democratic held Senate seat, the skepticism here and the reason it's a question, obviously, whether this will be part of the picture come November is that Maryland voted for Joe Biden by 33 points. And you just don't see too many examples these days. You used to in the old days, or even the not-so-old days, but not in the Trump era.

You don't see examples of states that are that far to one side in the presidential race turning around and voting for a candidate from the other party in a Senate race. It happens more frequently in governors' races, but when those Republican governors try to do it in Senate races, in blue states, the track record's not great. There's a couple anecdotal examples in the not-so-in the distant and recent past year. Linda Lingel, two-term Republican governor in Hawaii, tried to run for the Senate in 2012.

She's a very popular governor. She got blown out because Democrats carried Hawaii. Barack Obama did in the presidential race by 43 points, just created too vast a tide for her to overcome. So the anecdotal examples that are out there are not encouraging to Hogan, but again, he does have a groundswell there of personal popularity in Maryland.

If ever we got to September and October, and this race were still close in the polling then, Republicans managed to put this in play, obviously that could completely upend this map because Democrats have been talking about, hey, maybe they can hold on to Ohio, maybe they can hold on to Montana and hold on to the Senate. And if Republicans came around and put Maryland in play, that would obviously destroy, I'd say, the Democrats' chances on the spot. And it would just open the door to the question of how many seats would that Republican majority be? Well, that really takes me to the next question that I'll have for you, which is you've been doing a lot of digging on this really, what we think of as a dying breed, which is split-ticket voters.

Could we see more of that in November? And how could that impact where things go? Yeah. Obviously, Larry Hogan would need a ton of split-ticket voters, a ton of those folks who vote for Joe Biden to cross over, vote for him in the Senate race.

Here's what's been happening when it comes to that kind of split-ticket voting. Here's all the presidential elections since 2020, since 2000. And we're looking at the Senate races that were held in the same year as the presidential race. And the number here, what you're seeing, these are the number of split-ticket results.

The state votes for the presidential candidate from one party and then votes for the Senate candidate from the other party, as Hogan is trying to pull off in Maryland. Again, 2000, 2004, even as recently as 2012, it wasn't that uncommon, and then look what happened. The Trump era begins in 2016, and it goes right down to zero. Those split-ticket results in 2016, and then in 2021, single-state.

That was Maine. Susan Collins, the Republican senator, won it by nine, as Joe Biden won it by nine in the presidential race. So, that was the one example so far in the Trump era, but if you're Larry Hogan and your other candidates like him around the country, here's one thing that might give you some encouragement. Pulling this week, certainly talked about yesterday in the presidential race from battle grand states by the New York Times and Ciena.

These are the registered voter numbers in these battle grand states, they serve it. And obviously, the headline yesterday was Trump leading in five of these states by not only in Wisconsin, but the times also pulled four of these states that have Senate races. And take a look at the Senate races, the four states that they surveyed, the Democrats lead in all four of them. So, that suggests at least in this initial stage, ticket splitting possibilities in those states, and that could obviously be a lot more ticket splitting, but if you start to see it in those states, maybe somebody like Hogan can dream big.

Well, thank you so much for breaking down all of this. We'll definitely be looking to see all of your reporting as the night goes on. Got it. And thank you.

So, of course, turning out to be a major issue in the 2024 election. We want to talk about abortion. In a swing state, Arizona, the state Supreme Court granted that Attorney General's request to delay enforcement of the 1864 near total abortion ban to September 26. Now, that ban was repealed earlier this month, but the repeal won't take effect until 90 days after the legislative session end, which last year wrapped up at the end of July.

That means the ban could temporarily be enforceable for a month before the election. And as voters will likely also consider an amendment to expand abortion access in the state. Meanwhile, in Louisiana, Republican lawmakers are moving to categorizing medication abortion drugs as controlled substances, criminalizing possession without a prescription. That comes as the U.S.

Supreme Court is set to rule on a challenge to the FDA approval of Mipapryth Stone that could limit access to the commonly used abortion drug even in states where it's legal. Up next, they live report from Tel Aviv as the IDF amasses troops on the edge of Rafa amid fears that a full-scale invasion could be imminent. You're watching with the press now. Welcome back.

There are new signs that Israel's expanded operations in southern Gaza could begin soon, even as the U.S. urges against the move and threatens to withhold weapons shipments. Two U.S. officials tell NBC News that Israeli troops have begun to amass around the city of Rafa.

Those officials said the troop movement started days ago, and no formal assessment has been made on whether a full-scale invasion is imminent, according to the U.N. and estimated 450,000 people have now been fortunately displaced from Rafa since the IDF announced evacuation orders yesterday. National Security Advisor takes 11 once again reiterated the administration's position that a major Israeli offensive into Rafa would be a mistake. We still believe it would be a mistake to launch a major military operation into the heart of Rafa that would put huge numbers of civilians at risk without a clear strategic gain.

The president was clear that he would not supply certain offensive weapons for such an operation were it to occur. It has not yet occurred, and we are still working with Israel on a better way to ensure the defeat of Hamas everywhere in Gaza, including in Rafa. Joining me now is NBC News International correspondent, Raf Sanchez and Tel Aviv. Thank you so much for joining us.

So where are we seeing the most Israeli troop activity around Rafa, and what's really been the impact of their presence as we're now hearing all these warnings and threats? So Yamiche, the fighting is focused right now on the east of Rafa. You heard Jake Sullivan say there that Israel has not yet pushed into the very heart of the city, but what started off as a fairly limited tactical operation in Eastern Rafa does seem to be getting bigger every single day. So 100,000 Palestinian civilians were told to evacuate on the first day of this operation last week.

Now, at a point where 450,000 Palestinian civilians have been told to evacuate, there are more than a million Palestinians in Rafa altogether. These are people, many of whom have been displaced from their homes in Northern Gaza. They fled several times following Israeli instructions, and they went down to Rafa. And the question is, how big is this Israeli operation going to get?

And are they going to cross the red line that President Biden has drawn saying no major military operation in the heart of that population center? Yamiche. Those are certainly questions we're going to be watching for. And we've confirmed now, NBC News, that National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, will travel to the region this weekend.

What more do we know about that trip? And do we think he can persuade Israel not to launch a broader offensive here? So Jake Sullivan heading first to Saudi Arabia this weekend. That's according to a US official.

This is actually a delayed trip. He was supposed to be there a couple of weeks ago. He suffered a rib injury and had to delay that overseas travel, but he's heading to Saudi Arabia. He's going to be in Saudi trying to come up with an inducement for Israel to one, not go ahead with this Rafa operation, and two, to work towards a two-state solution on the other side of this war.

And one of the prizes that the US hopes it can offer Israel that might convince Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to change course from the one he's on right now, is the possibility of normalization of diplomatic relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, something Prime Minister Netanyahu wants badly. Does he want it badly enough that he's prepared to allow a Palestinian state? That remains to be seen. And then as you said, Yamiche, Jake Sullivan is heading here to Israel afterwards.

And one of the top priorities is going to be trying to dissuade the Israeli government from expanding what is a pretty significant military operation in Rafa into an all-out assault on the city. And it is Israel unlikely to launch that attack while Jake Sullivan is in the country, but it might be the last chance the US has to try to convince him to change course. Well, thank you so much, Ross Sanchez, for your reporting in Tel Aviv. After the break, betting on Nevada, new polling shows Donald Trump with a double-digit lead in a state where Democrats have a long-running winning streak in the presidential race.

You're watching Meet the Press Now. Welcome back. Turning now to a potentially alarming development for the Biden campaign in battleground, Nevada. Democrats have carried the silver state every presidential race since 2008.

Donald Trump leads President Biden by 12 points in a recent New York Times, Seattle poll that is outside the margin of error and in more than 14-point swing from the 2020 results digging into the numbers. Biden is hovering around 40% among young voters and Hispanic voters, and in 2020 he carried those two groups with more than 60% of the vote. Now, the Biden campaign does have paths to victory without winning Nevada, but in a close race, every battleground state could decide the presidency. Joining me now is the editor and CEO of the Nevada Independent, John Rawls, and thank you so much, John, for being here.

Now, of course, you're a Nevada oracle. You've said this is a very bad poll for President Biden. How concerned should the Biden campaign be about the state of Nevada? I think they should be very concerned.

I mean, as you said, it's been since 2004, since the Republicans have won here, and the Democrats, thanks to the machine created by Harry Reid, have been able to pull out some close races during the last two cycles, Biden only won by two and a half points here. The state has changed some, the Hispanic vote is a concern. I think smart Democrats on the ground here, those who have helped build the Reid machine and those who understand what's going on, are concerned that I think they probably want to ring the alarm bells to the Biden campaign, that even though I don't think they believe that that 12-point margin is the right margin, that Biden is behind here and that he has some work to do. I think the news in this poll, I think, for the Democrats is it's only mid-May.

It's only mid-May. That's true, and it's early, but that being said, President Biden's passed to a second term, it gets very, very narrow without your state of Nevada. Should the Biden campaign, you think, be putting more focus on the state? Yeah, I think it would be very foolish for them to take us for granted, and I know you said that there's a path for them to win without Nevada, but that's a very, very, very thin razor edge that they'd be operating on if they decide to try that.

I think it's foolish to think that Nevada's gone for the Biden campaign. Hispanic votes generally changed. They did in 2022. Yamiche, about the same time, the polling show that Adam Laxalt, the Republican Senate nominee, was at 50% with Hispanics.

He ended up losing Hispanics in a landslide to Catherine Cortez Masto. But I think if they don't work it, if they don't make sure that the culinary union, which is the big union here in Las Vegas, represents about 60,000 casino workers, doesn't turn out the Hispanic vote again, I think they could be in trouble. Now, you and I both know that it's an eternity, the veritable eternity between now and election day. But not everyone is as crazy as you and me to follow this stuff 24-7, but I think there should be some real restlessness among the Democrats about what's going on here in the Nevada.

And you know, you just talked about the Hispanic vote. Of course, there's also the issue of the young vote here. And President Biden really being dragged down by both of those groups in a number of these polls. What do you think that explains what's happening in this poll that you said is really bad for him and you're saving Nevada?

I think that's part of it. And of course, you know, the cliche about polls is there a snapshot in time. There is a lot of unrest right now among young voters about how Biden is handling what's going on in Gaza. Now, is that going to continue?

Will that be the issue that's top of mind in November? I don't know. But Biden campaign cannot afford to have disaffected young voters here in Nevada and in other battleground states. But you know, it's going to, as I said earlier, you mean it's just going to take some work.

They're not just going to come home in the parlance of campaigns. They're going to have to work it. And I think there's some concern here among Democrats, smart Democrats who have been around a while who are on the ground that the Biden campaign is not doing enough here. And, John, we were talking about President Biden, but there are also, of course, Democratic Senator Jackie Rosen, who's up two points in this poll.

She's running ahead of President Biden, but she's only at 40 percent. Is this poll a warning sign for her too, especially as you think about the Reid machine and whether or not that might even be around for her and for President Biden? Yeah, I think she should be very, very concerned. I have to tell you, I mean, one thing that does not bring true in this poll is that somehow there are some groups of people that are Trump, Rosen voters.

That makes no sense to me. If Joe Biden were to lose in Nevada by double digits, which by the way, I think is highly unlikely, Jackie Rosen is not going to survive. And the carnage here for Democrats up and down the ticket is going to be very, very broad and deep. So she should be very, very worried.

They are worried. They're worried about Sam Brown, they've been attacking Sam Brown throughout the primary. They know he's the strongest candidate, even though he hasn't been in Nevada that long and he has a history of some statements that are coming back to haunt him now. But he's the strongest of any of the Republican candidates.

And as you know, we're a purple state and the bottom line is Catherine Cortez Masto barely won against Adam Laxo, who was a terrible candidate. So I think Jackie Rosen should be quite concerned about this poll. Well, there's no one better to talk about politics within you, Jonathan Alston. So thank you so much for your time.

Thanks for having me. Still to come, trial balloons, why Trump's allies and vice presidential contenders are descending his hush money trial panels next, you're watching me the press now. Welcome back. As we mentioned, Donald Trump is enjoying a show of force at the New York courthouse from his Republican allies among them, House Speaker Mike Johnson, the country's highest ranking elected Republican and some former 2024 rivals are now echoing the former president's tune as well as his wardrobe, apparently, as they vie for a vice presidential spot.

This is the fifth week that President Trump has been in court for the sham of a trial. They are doing this intentionally to keep him here and keep him off of the campaign trail. And I think everybody in the country can see that for what it is. The American people have already acquitted Donald Trump because the things that they're concerned about, inflation, crime, the border, the economy, all of these things, President Trump is leading by huge double digits versus Joe Biden.

Joining me now is my panel of Kayla Gardner. She's a White House correspondent for Bloomberg. Face your care is advisor to senior to Senator Bernie Sanders and Stephen Hayes, editor of the Dispatch and NBC News contributor. So thank you all for being here.

Kayla, I want to start with you. I mean, first of all, I was really interesting to just see them all lined up for President Trump, the his supporters, of course, but a new appeals court, it rejected former President Trump's bid to overturn his gag order, but now he's saying that he has surrogates. And I wonder if you think about sort of what it means that you have these people now speaking at the court, basically saying all the things that Donald Trump wants to say, but can't say. Yeah, they're doing exactly what he said.

They're doing what he can't in this case. And you've had plenty of people who are very much on top of Donald Trump's mind in terms of making his vice president. If you have the Beck Rameshwamy, Byron Donald's, Doug Burdum, these are folks who are trying to prove to Donald Trump loyalty. And that is probably one of his biggest assets when he considers this position, especially when you look at what happened with Mike Pence here.

So they're doing exactly what Donald Trump can and trying to prove that they can be loyal to the president. And Stephen, I want to read the thing. In 2024, a former rival of H.A. Hunt's husband, waited on the show of force on this entourage that we're seeing here.

He says, as a former prosecutor and litigator, I am more concerned about the jury having a chance to do justice in the circus atmosphere. The presence of nationally known partisans makes the jury's job even more difficult. Is he right in this case? Do you think that this is the wrong thing for Republicans to be doing, even if they want to support Donald Trump?

Is it right for them to be in the courtroom with their sort of uniforms on standing on his side? I mean, the uniforms were interesting. You can't see the courts. Yeah.

I mean, look, that's a really interesting point. I think this is the weakest of the cases against Donald Trump by far. I think it was a legal stretch. I think you don't have to be a Trump supporter to believe that it was a legal stretch.

I think if you look at some of the things that you heard from Speaker Johnson, what they're doing is trying to make this a political argument and use this to political advantage. So he's making the case that this was deliberate and they're trying to keep Donald Trump off the campaign trail. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a similar sentiment from a Trump supporter, basically saying this is election interference. It's happening six months before the election.

They're deliberately trying to keep Donald Trump from being able to make his case to voters. And that's the broader argument that they're making. And Donald Trump's been saying that a two-tiered system of justice, he's being sort of targeted. All these things are baseless claims.

But I wonder when you see these people coming into the courthouse, is it sure that maybe he's the beneficiary of this two-tiered system when you have the judge saying, I'm not going to throw you in jail, but I have a job to do it. Now you have these Republicans coming in behind him. Yeah, and I think both things are true. The likelihood of this case being brought if Donald Trump wasn't Donald Trump, I think he's very slim.

I think he's right to say, like, yeah, this is too tiered. Other people wouldn't have been targeted if they were similar to the situation. But yeah, he's getting the benefit of the doubt on some of these things. The judge keeps imposing these gag orders and keeps suggesting to Donald Trump, hey, I don't want to jail you, but I might have to if you don't stop this.

And then you look at what he said in Wildwood, he's continued to go after the judge. One point about this is often, I agree a lot of what's even saying, one point that's often missed about this is that in the justice of somebody else would have been accused. Like this, you know, what we often would have seen happen is a resolution outside of this trial. You would have had a settlement agreement to a concession of a guilty plea in exchange for whatever was a slap on the wrist.

And Trump did do that. And why didn't Trump do that? Because he wants to engage in the show trial. He wants to go blasting at the judge.

He wants to show disrespect for the entire system. He wants to trial more than anybody else does for political benefits. So it's important to remember that as you're thinking about the context of all this. And when you see these Republicans lining up and saying all this, do you think that there's someone that's doing the best job here, I'm sort of echoing Trump, do you see somebody that's already doing the Trump impersonation the best here?

This is Donald Trump being ahead of the apprentice because I think he's just appreciating watching these people perform for him, knowing that probably none of these people have a shot that showed up today. He's probably gotten his mind, the person who he's chosen, I personally don't think it's any of these people. I mean, I think Trump was sitting in your chair. I think a year ago, when he asked him, hey, would you want to support Doug?

Would you do business with Donald Trump? And Bergum goes, no, because it's all about the company you keep and I wouldn't be with him. And here he is right there wearing the red tie in the white shirt. And I mean, what if it's saying about our politics that this is where we are, especially, you can look at all these other people, maybe they're trying to be VP, but you also have the House Speaker, right?

The second in line to the presidency, it's a remarkable moment to see him echoing the words of Donald Trump on on on court, how steps? Yeah, I mean, we really didn't need another reminder that the Republican Party isn't throw the Donald Trump and that the biggest test for being Republican these days is one of loyalty to the president. We had the example, of course, of the Republicans essentially shrugging off a political platform and ideological policy document and it's in effect saying that we're for what this guy's for. So this is just the latest and long example.

I think Republicans humiliating themselves to prove that they're loyal to Donald Trump. I mean, I think that's the most important part of the Republican Party there. But okay, I mean, what do you think would happen on the Democratic side? Could we imagine a Nancy Pelosi, a hockey and Jeffries, if he becomes Speaker of the House in the future, doing this to support a former Democratic president?

I don't see why not. I mean, we saw something similar with the president's son, Hunter Biden, we saw Democrats continuously calling this or the impeachment attempt against president Biden. Sham, if you will, similar to what Republicans are doing now, I don't see any reason why the same, the same situation wouldn't apply to Donald Trump to Biden as well. I could hear if I was maybe saying, but that's, this is a little different, right?

The theory of a president who says I don't follow the verdict of the American public. It was all a shame. It was a loss. It's so unique to Donald Trump.

His egregious behavior is so unmimicable to my mind of how a Democrat would ever do, or wouldn't do those kinds of things. And I also want to come back to this idea and actually a different issue here, still election related. Maryland, we are, of course, it's election day here. What do you make of the Maryland Senate race and all of the issues that are happening in that race?

Yeah, it's certainly fascinating. I have to say also as a Maryland native, but you have two very strong candidates here. This could be a very close race. They've been thrown obviously a millionaire.

He's poured so much money into his campaign. He's been on the airwaves for almost a year now. So he certainly has name recognition. People have seen those ads.

They also have Angela Allison Brooks, who would be a historic election. Of course, she would be only the third black woman and the first black senator from Maryland. So you have two very different campaigns here. Also Brooks also has huge endorsements, of course, from Governor Moore, the lieutenant governor.

She's almost the establishment candidate here, but yet this is still a very close race despite those endorsements for her. And even if you're Larry Hogan, who has the win, he's only by the way, but who would you want to win if you're Larry Hogan on the Democratic side? That's a very good question. I mean, David Roan had originally said, I'm going to spend a lot of my money until I win the primary, and then I'm going to let the SEC jump in and sort of fund me.

And then as the election tightened, he said, oh, I may be prepared to spend some of my own money. I think he's probably easier for Larry Hogan to take on Larry Hogan at 77% approval rating when he left office as governor. He's a pretty formidable candidate, even given all of the things that Steve Cornak he laid out for you in the sort of uphill battle. So I think he probably would prefer to take on David Roan.

And basically, can Democrats afford to spend the money that they will need to spend if this becomes competitive? If Larry Hogan wins his primary? They won't need to spend the money if it's not David Roan. David Roan needs to spend the money because he's unlikeable as a candidate.

He's a billionaire, but he's trying to buy a seat. And if it's Angela Allison Brooks, the establishment will rally around him. You have Biden at the top of the ticket. He will carry Maryland and also Brooks will also carry that state.

But if it's David Roan, who is unlikeable, as we see, and spending a $60 million drive by a seat and still can't win the races because there's a fundamental character flaw there and he can't spend enough to try it. $62 million in a primary to be a senator. That should almost be disqualified. You know, regardless of the party, that's sort of crazy.

A corrupt political system that you can do that. I mean, it's sort of really, really eye-opening that David Roan spent this much money and that there's already heating up in this way in Maryland. So thank you so much to Kayla to face to Stephen Hayes. Thank you so much.

And before we go, we have a very special announcement from the Meet the Press family, which Christian shared this morning on the Today Show. John and I are thrilled to announce we are welcoming a second baby into our family with the help of another amazing surrogate. Oh, congratulations. Thank you.

You're so excited. That's some great news. You've been keeping that one. I know.

A bit of a secret. That's time. You know, sharing our story here about our struggles with infertility and our journey to becoming parents has just been so rewarding and we hope that our news offers hope to others who are trying to build their own families. Our biggest, of course, congratulations to Kristin and to her husband, John.

And their new baby boy will be here in the coming weeks. We could not be more thrilled for Kristin and her growing family, including Margot, who we know can't wait to be a big sister. We'll be back tomorrow with more Meet the Press now. The news continues with Halle Jackson right now.

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