Meet the Press NOW — May 24

If it's Friday, the United Nations top court orders Israel to halt its military offensive in southern Gaza, the latest in a series of developments this week, putting the White House in a tough spot, as Israel is further isolated on the world stage. Plus, new reporting from NBC News on how the president's team is gearing up for a difficult moment for the Biden family and the campaign, as Hunter Biden's criminal trial on felony gun charges is set to begin. And a possible October surprise, senior U.S. officials tell NBC News they're bracing for a potentially dramatic escalation in tensions with Russia and North Korea that could come just as voters here are about to head to the polls.

Welcome to Meet the Press Now, I'm Gabe Gutierrez in Washington, where the Biden administration finds itself on defense. None of the campaign trail are on Capitol Hill, but on the global stage, as the U.S. stands by its Israeli partners despite concerns about their increased isolation. This morning, the U.N.'s highest court ordered Israel to immediately halt its military offensive into Rafa.

The city and southern Gaza were hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians are sheltering. The International Court of Justice said Israel failed to sufficiently address concerns about its military campaign, as living conditions in the enclave continue to worsen. The ruling is largely symbolic, though, with no actual enforcement mechanism, but top Israeli officials rejected the order, vowing to continue their fight. NBC News has reached out to the White House and the State Department for their reaction to this U.N.

ruling, but notably, there has been no reaction so far from the Biden administration. It's been a week of bruising headlines for Prime Minister Netanyahu, starting when a member of his own war cabinet threatened to resign, unless Israel adopted a new strategy in Gaza. Then, prosecutors at the International Criminal Court announced they were seeking arrest warrants for top Israeli and Hamas officials, including Netanyahu for alleged war crimes. And after that, pressure from Europe, when the leaders of Spain, Ireland, and Norway all announced plans to formally recognize an independent Palestinian state.

But with each headline, the Biden administration plans that he's publicly stood alongside Israel. We reject the ICC's application of arrest warrants against Israel, but let me be clear, contrary to allegations against Israel made by the International Court of Justice, what's happening is not genocide. We reject that. What we have seen so far in terms of Israel's military operations in that area has been more targeted and limited, has not involved major military operations into the heart of dense urban areas.

We now have to see what unfolds from here. The U.S. position on this is clear. President Biden, as I just said, has been on the record supporting a two-state solution.

He has been equally emphatic on the record that that two-state solution should be brought about through direct negotiations through the parties, not through unilateral recognition. It's not just a Biden administration. The yesterday, Speaker Mike Johnson reaffirmed his commitment to Israel and announced that he will soon be hosting Netanyahu at the Capitol to address a joint meeting of Congress. And to move some Democrats, he has a political ploy to further highlight and expose divisions inside their party on the issue.

Amid all of this, diplomatic efforts are also continuing behind the scenes. CIA Director Bill Burns is heading to Europe in the coming days, hoping to revive those salt ceasefire negotiations. NBC News' international correspondent, Raph Sanchez, is in Tel Aviv with the latest. Today's ruling by the International Court of Justice that Israel must halt its military offensive in Rafa is final, and it is binding.

So technically, Israel, if it does not comply, is breaching international law. But the court has no enforcement mechanism. That would fall to the U.N. Security Council, and Israel is hoping that the United States would shield Israel from any international action at that forum.

Now, just as that ruling was being read out at the court in the Hague, in the Netherlands, a little after 9 a.m. Eastern, our team in Gaza says Israeli airstrikes were pounding the Al Shabora refugee camp, which just underscores that there is not a whole lot of optimism inside Gaza or outside that this ruling will actually impact the war on the ground. In terms of potentially a little legal wiggle room, Israel has been ordered by the court to submit a report one month from now, explaining how it is complying with today's ruling. Some in Israel feel that as long as the Rafa operation is wrapped up by the time that report is submitted, Israel can say that it is complying, even though the judge was very explicit today that this offensive must end immediately.

Israel also saying it has recovered the bodies of three hostages from northern Gaza. It's a total of seven hostage bodies recovered over the last week. One of those found overnight, so Ryan Hernandez, he was a 30-year-old French-Mexican dual national, and the body of his girlfriend, Shanee Luke, was found last week. The two of them were at that supernova music festival when they were killed.

Meanwhile, CIA director Bill Burns in Europe meeting with the head of the Mossad spy agency as well as the prime minister of Qatar. And the hope is that he can revive these stalled, badly-sold ceasefire negotiations. But frankly, there is not a whole lot of optimism that these talks, which have not produced a ceasefire, which have not got any hostages out since November, will see a breakthrough now. Back to you.

He's already at his Wilmington-Delaware home, and the president has already been walking this fine line since the Israel Hamas War began, but it really can't be underscored enough how much more delicate of a position these charges, this ruling today, presents to the White House. Because remember, the president has said that absent a robust plan to protect the more than one million Palestinians sheltering in Rafa, the United States would not support any major ground-offensive by Israel in that area. And so this would force him to really reconsider potential future U.S. aid to Israel.

And despite this pause of a weaponship and a bunker buster bombs two weeks ago, we really haven't seen any other changes, even as Israel continues, these strikes in Rafa that the White House considers very targeted and specific. So this ruling today really puts the White House in a position where it could choose to accept this and recognize this decision, potentially adding more pressure on Netanyahu, or the alternative course of action, of course, would be to not recognize it and risk having more international pressure on the United States to put more leverage and more pressure on Israel. So still a lot to watch in the coming days on the White House. And to that point, you mentioned that fine line that the U.S.

is walking. Is there concern that aligning itself too closely to Israel is going to put the U.S. at odds with some of our other partners in the West? Yeah, well, the White House is not formally recognizing this, but you talked to some White House officials.

And there is concern about the growing, really the echoing concerns from leaders of other countries of ally countries that are really supporting this decision today, for one example, Egypt is supporting this decision by the ICJ today. And you see the fallout regularly that the president is facing here at home during White House events, during campaign trail events, and how that has been following him. So no doubt this is something that's concerning the White House albeit privately gave. And to that point, on Egypt, Ali, President Biden spoke with the Egyptian president today.

What do we know about that conversation? Yeah, the White House providing a readout of this phone call that President Biden had with President LCC of Egypt, in which they talked about these ongoing ceasefire negotiations. They also talked about ongoing efforts to get more humanitarian aid into the southern region of Gaza and Rafah specifically. And the White House says that the president welcomed a commitment from Egypt to allow aid to go through the Karam Shalom border crossing on a, quote, provisional basis.

The White House also says that the president committed to supporting efforts to reopen the Rafah border crossing with acceptable terms to both Israel and Egypt, and they say that the president agreed to send a delegation to Cairo next week to further talk about that game. Ali, Rafah, the White House. Ali, thank you. You know what, turn it on.

Look, keep in reporting on this floating dock project to get that humanitarian aid into civilian in Gaza. It appears they're struggling to get that aid there. What do you hear of administration officials? So it's actually unfolding in exactly the way that officials were concerned about from the very beginning.

So the military piece of it really is working at this point. It was a little bit slow to get it set up. There was bad weather. And everyone forgets.

I mean, this is a floating dock and a pier or a causeway that's anchored into the beach when there's bad weather and waves. It has an impact on their operations. But it's been up and running seven or eight days now. In that time, they have been able to bring more than a million pounds of aid ashore into Gaza.

But that's where some of the trouble has arisen, specifically in getting that aid to warehouses and then distributed to the civilians who desperately need it. Now, in addition to that, we do know some has made its way into the hands of people, the hungry people in Gaza. But it's only a fraction of what has actually gotten to the shore there. In addition to that, we just learned yesterday that in fact there have been three U.S.

service members who were injured. As part of this, they were all non-combat. Two of the injuries were minor. One of them was severe enough that the person actually had to be airlifted to a hospital in Israel.

So just underscores there's not only the concerns about the security there, but it is an inherently potentially dangerous mission. And according, what about the concerns about the costs? The U.S. has been spending, what, $300 million on this?

How long is this expected to go on for? Yeah, right now it's going to be at least $320 million. The reality is that's what we're told it will most likely go higher than that. That is just aftering the military piece, 1,000 service members, the ships that are there are also providing security.

All of the military component will likely go higher than that. But it's not just the money that's limiting factor here. Whether going forward could potentially be another limiting factor. Right now, it's the summer, it's going to probably be okay for much of the summer they think in the Mediterranean to continue operations.

As they get closer into the fall, that's when it starts kicking up again. They might not be able to continue operations because it may just be too dangerous, weather-wise out there. And Courtney, I want you to hang there. I want to turn out to another story.

Another hot spot in the world. You have new exclusive reporting on the burgeoning alliance between Russia and North Korea, and that the Biden administration is bracing for the possibility of an October surprise. The U.S. officials are growing more concerned that Pyongyang could launch some kind of military action at the urging of Russian President Putin in the run-up to the presidential election.

So walk us through some of this report. Yeah, so Carly and I have been working on this for several weeks, trying to figure out exactly what the implications are for the strengthening growing alliance between Russia and North Korea. Officials have been warning about it. We've heard about the tremendous millions of rounds of artillery and ammunition that North Korea has provided for Russia.

It's had an impact on the ground in Ukraine. Russia and exchange has given fuel, gas, maybe some money, but North Korea wants more than that. They want things like aircraft technology, missile technology, and now officials are concerned that some of that technology could be making its way to North Korea and could be a game changer. And what about China?

China is a close partner of both Russia and North Korea. Is there any concern here that Beijing can try and step in? Yes, absolutely. So Beijing, according to officials, it looks like Beijing is calling a lot of the shots between this relationship and may not be happy with it.

That being said, North Korea and Russia continue to strengthen this alliance, this bilateral alliance, to the point where we expect that Vladimir Putin may even make a trip to North Korea in the coming weeks. Officials here are concerned that that could be the time where they seal these deals. In addition to the provocative actions they're concerned about, they're also worried about some new joint manufacturing capabilities that Russia could help North Korea with inside North Korea. And certainly a lot to consider there.

So, Courtney, you know that Foreign President Trump has touted, you know, his apparently strong relationship with the relationship, as he sees it with King Dong-un, as the Biden administration reached out at all to North Korea at this point. They have. In fact, some think tank experts have said they think it could be as many as 20 or even two dozen times that there has been an effort to reach out to North Korea. But the reality is there has not been any diplomatic overture.

And that's one of the reasons that officials are so concerned. 2024, it's an election year. North Korea tends to increase their provocative actions during an election year. Historically, that's been pretty consistent.

But the times where it isn't as hot, then the numbers of provocative actions, like missile launches, even a nuclear test, the times that those are lower is when there is a dialogue between the US or even the probability of a dialogue. And the reality is that just doesn't exist right now and officials are not optimistic that we will see any kind of dialogue before the election in November. Alright, Courtney, thank you so much for your reporting. It's good to have you here.

Thanks. Today, RFA Junior's little-known pick for Vice President, Nicole Shanahan, in her political journey from Democratic donor towards some fringe political movements. But first, how the Biden team is preparing for a new phase of their battle against Donald Trump after his hush money trial is over. They're watching me to press now.

Welcome back with closing arguments on the start of jury deliberations set for next week in former President Trump's New York hush money trial by NBC colleagues that have new exclusive reporting that the Biden campaign wants to go on offense regardless of the outcome. Sources tell NBC, top Biden campaign officials plan to stress to voters that Trump will be on the ballot no matter what, and that the only way to block him from the White House is to vote for President Biden. The campaign hopes a post-trial break from Mr. Trump's regular legal appearances will make it easier for the president's political message to break through.

Meanwhile, the Biden team is preparing for the fallout from his son, from his son Hunter's upcoming criminal trial on felony gun charges. Sources say their goal is to be, quote, deliberately low-key about the matter. Hunter Biden appeared in court today for a pre-trial hearing ahead of his trial, which is set to begin June 3rd. And joining me now from Wilmington, Delaware is NBC News Justice and Intelligence correspondent Ken Delanyan.

And here on set with me is NBC News White House correspondent Mike Memley. Thank you both for joining us. And Ken, I want to start with you. What do we hear from both sides in today's hearing, both a government and Hunter Biden made several motions about what evidence could be admitted.

So who ended up with the better score sheet? It's hard to tell, Gabe. I would say that the judge really gave both sides most of what they wanted. And none of this was terribly consequential, setting the stage for the beginning of this trial on June 3rd.

Essentially, the judge is going to allow the prosecution to, for example, quote from Hunter Biden's memoir. They're going to allow the prosecution to cite evidence from that infamous laptop and other electronic devices. There's a summary sheet with 18,000 pieces of evidence that include emails and text messages and photos. But the judge is going to allow Hunter Biden's attorneys to challenge the authenticity of specific messages if they can do that on a case-by-case basis.

So that's an interesting thing that we'll see at the trial. The judge granted requests by the defense to exclude certain testimony that's negative about Hunter Biden, for example, any reference to the other criminal case against him out in California, the tax evasion case, and any reference to his being discharged from the Navy after testing positive for cocaine. The government is not allowed to portray his lifestyles extravagant, but they are allowed to talk about his drug use and the things that he did around the drug use, which is quite unflattering. So he's basically setting the stage for what is a very important trial.

And Ken, Hunter Biden himself was a court today, as we mentioned. How did he react to the proceedings? He, according to the folks who were inside and watching him closely, he was a careful observer of the proceedings. He consulted with his lawyers on occasion.

He paid close attention, especially when David Weiss was also there, consulting with the prosecution team. It's just a reminder, though, that Hunter Biden walked away from a plea deal that was to misdemeanors resulting in no jail time. And now he's facing a maximum of 25 years. In this case alone, now that won't be the sentence, but that's the maximum.

And 17 years maximum in the tax case out in California, so he is in some very serious trouble facing felony charges. So, Ken, you've mentioned that California case a couple of times, the case is tax charges there. What's the latest on that trial? Those receipts?

Yeah, it's been postponed. It was originally scheduled to start at the end of June. It's now going to start in September. Arguably, that's the more serious of the two cases.

This gun charge, while very serious, is rarely prosecuted. And there's a constitutional argument against it that Hunter Biden may win, ultimately. But the tax case is very cut and dry. He's charged with felony tax evasion.

And there's a lot of evidence that he didn't pay his taxes. A question about criminal intent. And that's going to be a longer and more involved, more detailed trial out there, Gabe. And Delaney and life for us in Delaware.

Ken, thank you. Want to turn out a mic, a memo, like the Biden team says they're going to be low-key, but is the president going to be able to adhere to that? Once the trial gets in the way? That's a big question, right?

I mean, the overarching theory of the case from the Biden team, whether it's the Trump trial or Hunter Biden's legal woes, has been to stay quiet because of the fear of being seen as interfering in judicial proceedings. Of course, the president is the head of the executive branch and the judiciary department. But the other part of this is they're taking the accused from the president. They say he's reacting to this as a father, not as a president.

And there's a fear of creating the same kind of circus atmosphere around Hunter Biden's trial that we have seen in New York, around Donald Trump's. And so they want to be ready to respond to the extent that some of the discussion that may come up in Wilmington involves then Vice President Biden's conduct, whether his son was influencing decisions in the Obama administration when the vice president was playing an important role in policy. But otherwise, they plan to stay out of it. And we've seen in the past the first lady and the president at times been asked about their son and they respond forcefully.

They defend their son. And so to the extent that we may hear from them, it may be in situations like that. And Mike, this is a very difficult time of year for the president, as you know, and what's around the anniversary of his son Bo's death. How does that add to how all this is going to affect the president?

The timing of this, I think, is what has so many people around the president feeling very concerned about this moment for the president, right? You can draw a direct line from the death of Bob Biden nine years ago, next Thursday, to the substance abuse issues that exacerbated for Hunter Biden, the journey that he went on. Remember, when Biden was holding the first big rally of his campaign in 2019, there was a seat for Hunter Biden that was left on Phil because he was in the depths of his addiction at this point. So the president and the first lady said that they're very proud of his son, their son, their recovery.

He's made and their first and foremost concern about seeing him continue on that. Well, certainly something Republicans are going to keep hammering a Biden administration about. They're reporting on how the Biden campaign plans to handle former president Trump's hush money trial, whatever, you know, verdict is handed down the aftermath of that. What's this about a more aggressive posture?

What are they going to be changing? Gabe, it's such a measure of what an unusual campaign we're in in that one candidate has been facing a criminal trial. And it's the other campaign that feels like it's hurt them, right? It is really remarkable.

I was on the road this week with the president and once your campaign official actually made the handcuff jesters that we feel we've been handcuffed because we haven't been able to press our case, get the message out. Even though it's Trump that can't, he says, you know, he's locked down in court and can't go, you know, campaign as much. But the Biden team is actually exactly. Exactly.

At the end of the first Trump trial, we don't know if we'll see another one before Election Day. They're looking for this as an opportunity that they need to pass, right? The whole issue for them is making it clear to voters. You may not like that.

This is a rematch of Trump versus Biden. But this is what you get. And so it's now not about the courts taking care of Trump at the ballot box. It's also at the ballot box.

And that's similar to what we saw four years ago. But Mike, why wait until there's a verdict? You know, some critics of the way the Biden administration of the campaign is handling this. They say, why not go out now and make more of a deal about it?

They certainly didn't want to play into what Trump has been saying all along, that this is a political prosecution, that this is political opponent trying to clear the field of his enemies. And he wanted to get under Trump's skin, too. One of the things they're considering is calling him a convicted felon, of course, if he is convicted, right? Not a former president.

That would be something that maybe carries to a debate stage next month when they're to or sharing a stage. And so there's obviously the president wants to be Donald Trump, but to the extent that he's struggling to do so, maybe Trump will beat himself. And that's been part of the sort of aggressive approach lately. And on that point, we're certainly looking forward to that debate next month.

How does what's going on now and whatever happens with the verdict? How does that factor into the preparation for that debate specifically? Well, we saw the campaign laid out in a memo, sort of some of the strategy leading up to the debate, which is to use some of these big moments to tee up what the president hopes to accomplish on that debate stage. The debate is going to take place just a couple of days after the anniversary of the Dobbs' decision, right?

The president wants to get forcefully out there that you are the one who set the path for reproductive rights being at risk. You're a convicted felon. He might be able to say that on a debate stage. Also, the anniversary of the U of all the shooting that it was being marked today, the Pulse nightclub also coming up.

So they want to use these moments as sort of organizing events leading up to the debate, which they feel like is going to be an inflection point in this campaign. It is the choice. They hope to finally get it through to voters because the polls still show there's a lot of doubt about that. Mike Mollair, White House Correspondents.

So good to see you here on set. Set up in the booth. Exactly. Well, former President Donald Trump says he plans to wait until around the Republican National Convention to announce his vice presidential pick extending the mystery and the jockeying amongst his allies for as long as possible.

Independent President candidate Robert Kennedy Jr. announced months ago that his running mate would be Nicole Shanahan, a Silicon Valley philanthropist. Now new reporting by NBC News is shedding light on a woman who is in some ways an unorthodox pick with no political experience of her own, but she does have much needed cash for the campaign and involving political views at bring her in line with a candidate who rejects institutions and elevates conspiracy theories, including about back seats. Joining me now is the reporter behind the piece.

Then he sees Brandi Zadrosni. Brandi Zadrosni. Brandi Zadrosni. Brandi Zad is so good to have you here.

And Shannon was a longtime Democratic donor. So take us through her path to becoming the independent candidates to be picked. Yeah. It's a really interesting transition.

And one, I've actually seen quite a bit on this sort of fringe beat, but April 2020 is a really important date in Nicole Shanahan's life. April 2020 was when she got a diagnosis of autism for her child. And her child was about 18 months and that autism diagnosis really sent her down sort of a rabbit hole. She had invested in different research about fertility, longevity, stuff like that, but autism really just got her into this rabbit hole.

So she started looking for fringe researchers and she found one named Dr. Jack Cruce. He has really wild ideas about the sun and its healing powers and blue light from computers. And he sort of made her believe that the vaccine caused, vaccines caused this autism.

And so then Shanahan went on this quest to heal her own daughter and to heal all the other autistic kids. And that brought her to Kennedy. And then she ended up joining the campaign, definitely because of the thing that you just mentioned, which is her millions and millions of dollars. You know, Brandi, you've been covering this a long time.

So how common is the wellness to conspiracy pipeline? Isn't it newer? Just amplified since COVID? Well, the wellness to conspiracy theory pipeline is a very short one because wellness influencers and entrepreneurs really, they see to distrust in normal institutions.

You know, you can't trust your doctor. You can't trust the government to help you. You have to buy my products or you have to donate to my Patreon. And I'll give you this secret information.

That's always been a cornerstone. What's new and what COVID did was really bring in right wingers to this sort of idea of anti-vax and distrust in these sort of institutions. That has become a new marriage. And that's where RFK and now Nicole Shanahan find themselves.

So what does she bring to the campaign beyond her cash? Well, I think we can pause for a minute because the cash is the big thing, right? She's now donated $10 million of her own money to the campaign and even more to a super PAC that's supporting Kennedy. So that is the big thing.

I mean, what she also does is she sort of speaks to the audience and speaks their language. I went to a recent rally in Austin where she gave her for some speech and she talked at length about soil and the evils of big pharma and big ag and big tech. And so she sort of speaks their language. So that, I mean, she does speak to a crowd and the people that I talked to didn't know her before and loved her after, whether she's pulling in new voters.

That's a question. Yeah. And that is, you know, the main question, right? You know, Kennedy's only on the balance of our six states, but the polls do show.

He could pull in some more votes. So to that point that you were just making how much will awareness of Kennedy or awareness of Shanahan influence who those votes are pulled from? I think it will pump up their existing fan base, but again, polls show and the people that I speak to that don't know Kennedy well, but are sort of waiting in the Kennedy waters and thinking about a possible vote for him, thinking about possible support. Most people do not know this stuff about Kennedy, do not know his decades of anti-vaccine rhetoric and propaganda.

And he has built the largest anti-vaccine organization on the planet, the most well-funded, his group, Children's Health Defense, that he's taken a leave from to run for president. But that's still very much there. All the people working for his campaign are people from CHD and from these fringe pieces. So the fringe, I think, will get stronger and more dedicated to him.

As people, you know, normal folks start to listen to what he's saying and what Shanahan is saying, I think there will be some issue there. All right, Brandy, Sadrazani, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Still to come.

The escalating crisis in Haiti, two Americans have been killed amid a massive political upheaval on gang violence. As President Biden says, the U.S. will not send troops into the country, while the latest developments next. You're watching Meet the Press Now.

Welcome back. For months now, really years, we've been following escalating violence in Haiti. And today we learned that violence has taken the lives of three missionaries, including two Americans, according to their families, Davy, Lloyd, and his wife Natalie, just 23 and 21 years old, were shot and killed by armed gangs, along with a Haitian colleague. Armed gangs have taken control of much of the country's capital city, and anti-government violence has become commonplace, with gangs targeting government buildings, police stations and hospitals.

Now Kenya is leading a UN-backed multinational police force to help stabilize Haiti and combat the violence. Yesterday, President Biden, alongside Kenyan President William Ruto, reaffirmed that he would not send American troops to Haiti, or reaffirming American support for efforts to restore peace in Haiti. We concluded that for the United States of the Floyd Forces and Hemisphere, it just raises all kinds of questions that can be easily misrepresented by what we're trying to do and be able to be used by those who disagree with us against our against interest in Haiti and the United States. And there's going to be U.S.

forces known on the ground, we're going to supply logistics, intelligence, and equipment, by the facts and equipment that's already arrived. And I'm joined now by Jacqueline Charles, who covers the Caribbean for the Miami Herald and has reported extensively on Haiti over many years. Jacqueline, thank you so much for joining us. And what do we know about the attack on missionaries in Port-au-Prince?

Well, this is an awful situation. I mean, there were attacked by two different armed groups. The first one came and essentially kidnapped Davey Lloyd, and then they left after looting the place and he was freed. And then soon after, another gang came, said they were coming to help and then shots were fired.

And next thing we know that the house they were in was set on fire and it was reported that they had died. But they were basically killed. Jacqueline, we've been hearing from the family members that it really is just so devastating to hear. But put this in context for us.

I've been down to Haiti many times. We've been reporting on Haiti for many years and it always seems that we keep talking about how violent it is down there, especially after the assassination several years ago. But put this in context for us. You that have been reporting on this for so long, how bad is the violence now as compared to say three years ago?

No, I mean, the assassination of the nation president of number E3 to go has really escalated violence. I mean, you see the gangs are targeting every day and every one. The Lloyd family they've been in Haiti for 26 years, they just for us language was real. They provide schooling for 450 kids.

They're no strangers in that community. But yet they were not protected. And also the abortation. I mean, today, that's the situation.

And Jacqueline, we just played part of that news conference yesterday with President Biden and he alluded to this, these questions that could come up if the US were to send troops into Haiti. What type of questions is President Biden trying to avoid here? Well, ironically, this all happened on the day that everybody anticipated we're expecting for the Kenyan troops to land on Haiti, that did not happen. You know, the US has a very torturous history with Haiti.

They send them Marines to turn a century's day for 19 years. But yet at the same time, people are saying, where are the Americans? Why is it not American troops? Why do they have to go all the way to Kenya?

So he was addressing this for the first time publicly. Why is it that you will not see American troops on Haitian soil? And Jacqueline, to that point, there was a Kenyan journalist in that press conference who hasn't very pointed questions of his leader. There's a lot of domestic opposition descending in that police force in Kenya, right?

There is a domestic opposition, but, you know, we're always trying to promote Kenya being on a global stage defense. And this is not their first peacekeeping type operation, so you've done over 40 and over 40 countries. So they're experienced with it. So we have to wait in state.

I wanted to know what's planned. If this doesn't work, of course, everybody's holding that there's progress, but if it doesn't, what is the next option that's available? And realistically, what are the chances here that the Kenyan forces in? Look, it's a multi-national force being led by Kenya, but what are the chances that this could succeed with the gangs and control of so much of the capital?

I have to tell you that this has been going on its current escalation since the 29th of February. And the Haitian police have beaten back the gangs. The airport hasn't fallen. The national palace hasn't fallen.

It has the central bank. These are all been targeted. So they have done an admirable job. But of course, they've been going at it, they need the assistance, but this is going to be a real test.

Are the gangs going to put down their guns? Are they going to challenge the forces? We don't know. This has never been tried before in the past.

It's always been UNP speakers. It's been thousands and thousands today. We're talking about maximum, maybe 2,500, maybe 3,000, and these are forces that don't speak the language. And this is the first time that they're going in.

They're taking up the only country that raised their hands and said, they will do this. Look, in terms of a long-term plan, is there any solution here that does not involve involving the gangs in some way into the political system here? Is there any way to cut them out completely given that they're such a part of daily life in border prints? So, of course, some of them have races, but this is not a conversation that Haitians are willing to have at this point.

I mean, so many of them have victims of the violence of the kidnappings of the gangs. We're talking about 300 gangs. Where do you begin to put anybody at the table? The long-term solution is to create some kind of a space so that Haitians can come together and figure out what is the future for their country?

How do you prevent young kids from going into these gangs? I mean, we're talking about teenagers. We're talking about people in communities where the state's government has basically asked if they don't exist, so the gangs don't want you to provide a law and order. So when you get to space to get security, now you have to start giving Haitians a reason to hope again or reason to want to live.

Jacqueline Charles, who covers the Caribbean for the Miami Herald, thank you so much for joining us here. We appreciate your expertise. And still ahead, the latest in Donald Trump's search for a vice president is former rivals rally around it competing for a spot on the ticket or a top job in a second Trump administration. The panel is next.

They're watching me depressed now. Welcome back. You might be shocked to learn that Donald Trump has injected a bit of reality TV style drama for his search for a vice president. And we've seen a number of potential picks competing for his affection with public praise or courthouse press conferences, talking local news at his South Bronx rally yesterday, Trump and name check for potential picks and let the door open to dozens more while saying he's in no rush to make a decision.

Take a listen. Share with me your top three candidates for your running mate at this one. Well, we have so many. I don't want to do that, but we have so many.

You could take people like Ben Carson, you could take people like Marco Rubio, JD Vance. I mean, there is so many, at least is doing a fantastic job, but I could go on for quite a long time. We have many people that would do a really fantastic job. Do you have a timeline on when you make the decision?

Sometimes during the convention. And joining me now is the panel here on set is Crystal is a founder of the so what newsletter on sub stack and senior advisor at Denton's Global Advisers. And we have Brian Lanza, former deputy communications director on the 2016 Trump campaign and partner at Mercury Public Affairs. And of course, here in the nick of time is Simone Sanders, Townsend, former senior advisor vice president Harris in the coast of the weekend on MSNBC.

You know, Simone, we're worried we're going to make you talk. You know, I blame, I blame Ubers. You know what? I don't trust anything.

I don't trust anything. I drove myself, but like a pro. She just came on in here. It's all right.

But I'll give you some time. Chris, I'm going to start. We're talking about the vice presidential picks right now. And look, this kind of dog and pony show that's going on in front of Donald Trump.

I know we keep saying that no one knows and the Trump campaign says no one knows what's going to happen except Donald Trump. What do you think he might be looking for in a vice presidential pick? So I think my general rule of thumb is no one who will probably outshine him, right? Look, I'm an only child.

I went into television on purpose. I like being the center of attention. You know, I'm not casting his versions. You don't say.

Yeah. So I get it. But I do think the fact remains that this is someone who wants the light to shine on him. Everyone underneath him, including the vice president, he views it as sort of a Trump organization.

Well, you work for me. And so he does it. That's why when people say, well, Nikki Haley, she's going to vote for it now. I think Nikki Haley probably has a little too much star power and a little too much interest in independence for someone like Donald Trump.

So I want to play something that he told one of the local stations in New York as her as a response rally talking about Nikki Haley. He was asked about that. Let's take a listen. I think she's going to be on our team because we have a lot of the same ideas, the same thoughts.

I appreciate it. What she said. You know, we had a nasty campaign. It was pretty nasty.

But she's a very capable person. And I'm sure she's going to be on our team in some form. Absolutely. I'm sure she's going to be on our team.

You know, Nikki, you know, some of her supporters have been saying, or some of the Trump folks have been saying, look, he needs to go after her supporters. Is that all we're going to get of Donald Trump going after Nikki Haley supporters? Since he's too enthusiastic. I think we've seen it already.

She's why Nikki Haley said she's supporting President Trump. They're clearly foreign affairs issues. It was real. It was Afghanistan.

And it was Ukraine. Those are issues that her and President Trump lined up more so than even Joe Biden. And so I think as President Trump starts to talk about those issues, it'll start to have more appeal towards her voters. And you'll see more and more progress take place.

But it's important. Remember, this isn't a new phenomenon in 2016. You had a lot of sort of never Trump supporters who said they're not going to come around. But in November, they came around.

It's like they came around in 2020 and they'll come around in 2024. And, you know, Brian, today, there's something reporting in New York Times. They're floating. You have Tom Cotton.

I think we'll make that. Yeah, good TV. The more we're going to get coverage, the more and more is going to suck up the oxygen. I'm of the feeling I agree with Chris.

You know, President Trump's sort of the best executive producer, director and actor of his own show. He's not going to bring in somebody who has shines. So that's why you probably have that issue with Christie Nones. I think she has shines in a negative way.

But who needs that attention? And I think you'll see some more names being put into the mix just because it has for more TV. Oh, I'm not the first thing you know. Just a second.

But what on your campaign strategies at Simone? That's why we maybe laugh like, yes, that makes good television. And I think Donald Trump knows why we can get TV. But we are talking about, a vice president is literally there in the event that anything happens.

If anything happens to the president, this is the person that could step in and is ready to be president on day one. And the idea that he is picking out of central casting is laughable, but is also concerning. And so I think that some of the campaign professionals on his team, folks like Chris Asavita, who has run a number, who's a veteran of campaigns in Virginia, has to be like pulling his hair out. I'm like, sir, please, this is the betting.

But again, Donald Trump's going to do what he wants to do. And where he picks out the face by President Donald Harris in a debate. Just quickly to add to Simone's point. I think she's 100% right.

And I'll add just as a reminder, you know, Donald Trump is not 52. Donald Trump is not 52. I should broadly agree with him that like the VP doesn't make that much difference. But in this situation, he sends him there's hope.

I know Joe Biden is 81, but still. But still. He would have had to pick this. That's right.

As you don't. Simone, from, you know, a campaign strategist perspective, is there anything, is there any vice presidential pick at this point that Democrats either are scared or concerned about? Is there anyone they would like to see less? I mean, I think at the end of the day, whoever he picks, Donald Trump's name is at the top of the ticket.

The nature of the vice presidency and of the running mate is that your name is on the door to number two on the door. Not number one. It's literally, you got to go along with it, get along. And so I think any of the picks, they're going to have their issues because of the name at the top of the ticket, not they themselves.

In 2016, Mike Pence was chosen primarily because he was a political professional. He could get the evangelicals. Normal Republicans were like, this is somebody we trust. So what is Tom Cotton?

Exactly. Which is why I think it is good. I think it is just fodder for the conversation. I don't know if he is a serious contender.

And speaking of the conversation, there's something else that the vice presidential pick can bring. In this case, for our kid's union, it's a lot of money. Yeah. So does that make the Bergen perhaps a more viable pick?

Yeah. So Bergen is interesting. Just my original point, his probably greatest two recommenders to Trump are he's kind of boring. Right?

I mean, look, I'm not the governor of North Dakota. Give him credit. He's run for office. He succeeded.

But he's not a big presence. We saw that during the campaign. And he's rich. Now that doesn't mean he's going to dump a bunch of money into the campaign.

But I think you've got to get in Donald Trump's melon a little bit, right? And I think inside his head, he thinks people who are wealthy are number one sort of like him. And number one have succeeded in some broad way because of their merits. No, we can have that debate.

But I do think he like he views himself. I'm a billionaire. I want to surround myself with other people who are Bergen is a billionaire. I want to surround myself with other people are very rich because they're successful.

And those are the kind of people I want to sort of affiliate myself with. I'm curious to get your take on another potential VP pick. Kristi, no, it's no surprise that her full number is. I've plummeted since that, you know, that story came out about the dog.

It turns out that, you know, killing your dog doesn't go over too well. But do you think that, you know, what do you make of that? Is the only test here, you know, loyalty to Donald Trump? So, yeah, I've written and talked about this.

Like my dark horse three months ago was Kristi, no. And now I'm like, well, I know that's on the record. You said she was a dark horse. Well, I didn't know that she had murdered a 14 year old dog.

You did not see that coming. So. And actually admitted to it. Probably admitted to it.

Probably admitted to it. Probably admitted to it. I'm tough. I was killed ago.

So I think loyalty does matter, but there's a lot of other people who've been plenty loyal to Donald Trump who haven't killed a puppy and bragged about it. I'm always hesitant to predict what Donald Trump's going to do because he's Donald Trump. I mean, you know, that's what makes the point. What Donald Trump's going to do, who really knows?

I would be stunned if Susie Wiles and Chris Lassett are the two top people who are serious real campaign people for Trump are like, yes, let's include Kristi Noem in the cricket story in our final three. We talked a little bit earlier in the program about the Biden campaign looking to take a more aggressive stance when it comes to Donald Trump and today they just released an ad narrated by Robert DeNiro. Let's take a listen. We knew Trump was out of control when he was president.

Then he lost the 2020 election and snapped desperately trying to hold down the power. Now he's running again. This time threatening to be a dictator to terminate the Constitution. I don't get elected.

It's going to be a bloodbath. Trump wants revenge. He just stopped at nothing to get it. So that ad Simone does it.

Does it do it? Does it do it? Is the Biden campaign getting more aggressive? Don't you think that's going to work?

Look, I think this is two prongs. First of all, I think this is one of many steps they're taking and we're going to see this as we get closer and closer to that debate. I think the first prong is getting inside Donald Trump's head. He does not like, you know, he likes to call everybody else names.

He doesn't like to appear weak. People call him on hinge, all those kinds of things. So when Joe Biden himself has been saying this a little more, namely those fundraisers, where we don't have cameras, what we do have reporters. And so that's the first prong.

The second prong is to remind, I think, voters, kind of what it was like when Donald Trump was in charge, what it was like the last campaign, because there is this fatigue and amnesia I would argue with some of the voters. And they don't remember, you know, the early morning, late night tweets, they don't remember the chaos that Donald Trump so to deathly folks don't remember how he stood in the East Room on election night, the first night of the election week, and claimed victory even though no one had yet actually wanted. So that is, I think, part of what they were trying to do, and who doesn't allow for the new year on? Everybody.

I'm going to go to you. You know, both sides right now are talking about threats to democracy. The Biden campaign has been hanging us for a while for President Trump, you know, his campaign now is claiming that Biden is a threat to democracy. Do those types of attacks just cancel each other out?

Yes. You know, the reason Joe Biden runs these ads, these assaults on democracy, these things, is because he can't run on his economic record as president. When you bump that up against President Trump, and you do the back of the bank statements at the end of the month, the scoreboard is pretty clear where you were better off, it's four years on Trump as a divided. So you're not going to have Biden say, look how great I did these last four years, let me do that again.

So he's got to sort of change the subject because the economy is not on his side. It doesn't appear to be on his side. So I think, you know, that's going to cancel itself off as we'll just sort of pay more and more attention to the economy. And it doesn't look like it's getting better any time soon.

Brian Lanza, Chris Salisa, Simone Sanders, Townsend, thank you so much for being here. And we will be back on Monday with more Meet the Press now. And it's Sunday. It's a special edition of Meet the Press, focusing on election security and democracy among Kristen's guests, a bipartisan panel of secretaries of state.

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