If it's Thursday this day, two of jury deliberations in Donald Trump's criminal trial as jurors consider the evidence from both sides. And new polls suggested voters are digging in ahead of November, regardless of which way the verdict goes. Plus, a major shift in U.S. policy tied the war in Ukraine.
A U.S. official confirmed within the last 15 minutes that President Biden secretly gave Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia with US Provided weapons and Israeli forces take control of the Gaza Egypt border, saying that they found tunnels Hamas was using to smuggle weapons there and moved that aid groups warned could further disrupt the flow of desperately needed humanitarian aid into the region. Welcome to READ THE PRESS now. I'm Peter Alexander here in Washington.
And for yet another day, we are keeping a very close eye on that course house in lower Manhattan where any time a jury could return a verdict in Donald Trump's criminal hush money fraud trial, jurors have now been deliberating for what is more than nine hours, deciding the fact of the former president, who of course is the current presumptive Republican presidential nominee. The jury right now is weighing the evidence regarding 34 felony counts of falsifying business records tied to those alleged hush money payments to adult film star Storm Daniels during the 2016 election. Right now we are in effect in a wait and see mode at the courthouse. The last several hours have been relatively quiet.
The jury has not made any new requests or issued any new notes since this morning, when they had key sections of testimony from former Trump Fisher Michael Cohen and former National Enquirer publisher David Pecker read back to them. The jurors had asked to go back over Packer's testimony about his conversations with Mr. Trump, in addition to testimony from Pecker and Cohen about a meeting at Trump Tower with Mr. Trump in 2015.
The prosecutors say it was during that 2015 meeting that an agreement was made to notify Mr. Trump about negative stories to help his campaign. The jury also asked to rehearse parts of Judge 1's lengthy and complex jury instructions. As the jury deliberates, Donald Trump remains inside the courthouse.
He's there just waiting. He's required to be there for the duration of these deliberations. And it comes as a new national poll by npr, PBS and mayor's minds that the vast majority of voters say whatever the verdict is in this trial, it's going to do very little to affect their vote. According to the polls, Mr.
Trump is found guilty 67%. Two thirds of registered voters say it won't make a difference in how they vote, 15% say a guilty verdict will make them more likely to support him. Not surprisingly, those voters are overwhelmingly Republican. 17% say they would be less likely to support him.
Also not surprising, most of those voters are Democrats. And quota, by the way, that wouldn't move the deal much either. If Trump is found not guilty, more than three quarters of registered voters say it will not make a difference in how they vote. That's where we get started with MZ Yasmin Sogin.
She's outside the courthouse in lower Manhattan. Paul Callan is the former prosecutor in the Brooklyn District Attorney's office, a criminal defense attorney as well. Yasmin, let's get to you on the ground there. Tell us what more we know about what's going on inside the jury room and walk us through the requests that came from the jury today.
Not much here. As I say, it's being described in the courtroom as a hospital waiting room. Everyone's a little tired, a little anxious as well as we're all feeling out here waiting for any kind of additional jury notes come out when that bell actually rings inside the courtroom. But as of now, we're being told no notes.
It's 4pm Obviously, court usually goes into recess at 4:30. However, the judges say they are to work till 6pm so we don't know yet. They're gonna I'm going to recess at 4:30 or work till 6pm hopefully we'll get an answer on that soon. But they've been inside those deliberations ever since 1115 or so earlier today, after those additional jury instructions were in fact read, it was pages six to 35 of Judge Juan Berchon's jury instructions, about 45 minutes of reading of those jury instructions.
Let me walk you through quickly some of what that entailed. It was talking about how to draw inferences, Giving an example, for instance, if you go to bed, it's not raining, you wake up, the streets are wet, someone's holding an umbrella and walking outside. You might infer, you might come to the conclusion that in fact it had rained overnight or it is raining outside right now without actually seeing rain. Talking about limiting instructions, specifically when it comes.
And this is interesting, of course, because they wanted to hear excerpts of testimony from Michael Cohen and David Pecker limiting instructions when it comes to their testimony. David Pecker, Michael Cohen. David Pecker signing a non prosecution agreement saying take that into consideration when it comes to his cred, when it comes to saying guilty or not guilty of Donald Trump. Also with Michael Cohen, yes, he pled guilty.
Yes, he Has a convicted liar, however, take that into consideration when it comes to credibility? Not guilty or not guilty when it comes to Donald Trump. They went through, I'm talking about not drawing any emphasis when it comes to the former president deciding not to testify. Reasonable doubt in your collection law, federal election law, tax law as well.
Again, pages six to 35 of these jury instructions, 45 minutes or so and then back into that deliberation room. Peter. And as of now, it could be any minute, it could be any hour, any day. If anybody's guessing right now, it's 180 on this thing.
Yeah, that's what we keep waiting. We also learned a little bit more, Yasmin, about the former president. He got a tv, we're told, inside the room where he's waiting. What do we know about how he is spending his time and who he is with?
Again, to be clear for those watching us right now, he is required throughout these deliberations to stay inside that courthouse. Yeah, required. Important to use that word carefully because he is in fact required, but only more because security purposes would be too difficult for the former president to be leaving this building and coming back, obviously because of security and the security details that the former president needs when he's traveling around and the city has the reason why he's staying inside the court. But wait, Eric Trump is here today as well.
Don junior Was here yesterday. Laura Trump here yesterday as well. As you mentioned, he did get a TV in the room in which he's waiting in. And Jason Miller, who passed by us a little bit earlier, we asked him what's, what's the former president watching in that room?
He would not tell us what he was watching. We asked if he was watching us. He did not tell us he was watching that either. But in fact, he does have a television.
There was TikTok Posted by Don Jr yesterday alongside his father, saying jokingly he was helping his father post mean tweets. But beyond that, that's all we know. Alhamda also speaking to our own Von Hilliard over here, telling telling him he is working inside that room. He's focused and he is awaiting a verdict.
Yes, thank you very much. Of course, come back to learn anything more of the course of this hour here, we should know. Doug Burum, another man being considered a possible VP candidate. Also there with the president of the course of this day.
We want to get to Paul Callan right now, our attorney with the legal expertise we need. Paul, so pull back the curtain. For folks who are not lawyers here, what do you Read into what the jury wanted to have read back to them today in terms of those instructions. Well, you know, here it's fascinating that they ask so many questions so quickly.
Usually in jury trials, this happens a day or two into the deliberations when they're fighting with each other and somebody says you should hear this testimony or you should hear this instruction. This jury pretty much asked for a complete read back of the instructions and a lot of the critical evidence to be read that right away. And what that says to me is that as they were listening to the case and listening to the evidence, they didn't realize how complex it was going to be until the judge read the charge, the 55 page charge. And I think they went into the jury room and they said, well, we better get parts of that read that this is very, very complicated.
And of course New York has this rule where they don't submit it in writing to the jury as they do in most states. And it makes it very difficult for jurors to remember what the law has been instructed in complicated cases. And Paul, let me say the audience who joining us now, we just learned from our reporters that are there that the prosecutors are inside the courtroom right now. We don't know specifically why.
I just want to ask our have you heard the judges in the courtroom as well as some of the prosecutors? We don't know. Yeah, we'll try to get more information on that. So there's some movement of some kind.
But obviously before anything significant, of course we believe everybody would clearly be in the courtroom. Let me ask you quickly though about the instructions that were read. Why not just give the jurors the instructions on a laptop that they have access to right now? Well, you know, the New York court appeals has ruled previously that's the highest court in New York, that they don't want this done.
That will be too confusing for the jury to have the instructions in writing. And I think it's an idiotic ruling, Frank, But New York is very backward in so many ways with the way it runs its legal system compared to other states across the country. Less technology, less bending to modernity, you know, in terms of what they do. But I think they'll learn a lesson this time.
Maybe the law will be changed because of this. Obviously, we're only to the end of day two. This thing could go on for a period of time. But just for a layperson sort of understand the longer this goes, does that just give us a better sense that they're more likely to be hung or you know, Is there sort of a sweet spot right now?
We're still in the early stages, I guess it's very hard to predict. But you know, we're early on in when you consider that this case went on for 22 witnesses and six weeks now with days off and everything. Maybe it was more like a three week trial, but I would expect three or four days of deliberation on a case that went that long. I think what's interesting is that now that the read back was done by the judge, he re instructed them, he gave them the evidence.
No more questions today. That means, I think that they're having very productive discussions in that jury room when they start to fight with each other. A lot of times that's when you see a lot of notes coming out to the, to the judge saying, well, could you read back this item of evidence? Could you reinstruct on this particular point?
But we've got no more questions now. So that says to me, wherever they're going, they're making some progress, I think. And I don't think you'll see a verdict today, maybe tomorrow, but you never know. Possibly on three or four days.
Three days means they end on Friday. Four days means this thing goes through the weekend. Right. And that can always be interesting in a trial and jury deliberation, this kind.
I want to ask you about part of what Judge Merchand's instructions to the jurors included, specifically with regards to what they call the unlawful means that they could consider while deciding if these alleged falsified documents were part of an effort to cover up another crime. The judge made clear they don't have to all agree on what that other crime was, just that there was another crime that was trying to be covered up here. So they could determine that that was either viol violations of the Federal Election Campaign act because it was the falsification of other business records or violation of tax laws. Does the fact that the jury wanted to hear back testimony from David Pecker of the National Enquirer and the 2015 Trump Tower meeting in particular, is that indicated that the jurors are interested, you know, specifically, I don't know Judge Berchan's instructions or were Pecker and Michael Cohen sort of agree?
Well, I think that they asked for that testimony because, remember, Pecker and Cohen are really the link back to former President Trump because that's Pecker was doing this catch and kill agreement where if there were bad things coming out about Trump, they would pay for the story and see if they could kill the story and of course, Cohen was the bag man, says the prosecutor who was setting up the payment scheme, that the money was coming from the trust account of the former president to the people that he wanted to silence and that the outline of that conspiracy can be heard in the read back of the stuff they had with Pecker and Cohen. So I think that's critical, critical evidence in the case. And the jury just wanted to hear that first before he delved into the details of those crimes, those secondary crimes that you're talking about, Paulo, and rap outside the courtroom. Really quickly, if I can, Yasmin, try to get better understanding of what's going on in that courtroom.
Right now we're getting notes from our team. What were you learning? Yeah, I'm looking down at my iPad here on my phone as well. We're getting the document from inside the courtroom.
So apologies on why I'm not addressing you, Peter, directly, but we're getting some scattered information here. Just walked back into the courtroom. Donald Trump is in the courtroom. The defense team in the courtroom as well.
The prosecution is in the courtroom as well. I want to be clear. No bell has been wrong, right? Yesterday a bell was wrong.
Two notes came in, another bell, another note came in. So three total notes came in yesterday after bells were rung inside the courtroom. This time, no bell has been rung. The judge.
Okay, so we just got it. And Lisa Rubin is reporting this now, our colleague here who's inside the courtroom. The jury is going to be excused at 4:30pm and so that is why the prosecution and the defense were back in the court along with Judge Juan Rashan. Let me just remind folks, right, normally we get excused at 4:30pm here in court.
The judge had said, listen, we can work until 6pm depending on where you are in the decision making process. Right. It seems as if they now made the decision, judge made decision alongside, of course, obviously talking to the jury. It seems that they're going to be excused at 4:30pm that likely means they're not very close.
And I'm sure Paul can kind of weigh on this more so to a decision. If they were closer to a decision, they may have, they may have decided to extend to 6pm to possibly come out with a vert before court went into recess. But because they're being excused at 4:30pm it seems they're not necessarily close to a decision. Support will be back tomorrow morning here.
Yes, a little bit clarity on that. Yeah. Thank you. Apologies about this a lot before.
We thank you as well. So they're all back in the courtroom, the judge can say, everybody's going home today and it up again tomorrow. Is that a fair takeaway? Fair enough.
And I agree with Yasmin completely. They need more time to reach this verdict and otherwise we would have stayed until 6 o'. Clock. So we pick it up in the morning.
We'll really see you back here on this platform again tomorrow. I trust Paul Allen. We really appreciate you. We want to get for our panel now and Satan with me.
That's Edward Swan, national correspondent for Politico, Simone Sanders Townsend, former senior vice president for Vice President Kyle Harris and co host of the weekend weekends on msnbc. And Danielle Pletka, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Glad you guys were with us. We were all sort of watching that play out in real time.
It seemed like we might have some excitement. Turns and everybody's going home. Like, is this happening? Is this a document they want to be dismissed, that they're going home?
No one is going to have any adrenal glands at the time this is done at some point. This is a lot of speculation games. Let's talk the big picture about why this matters and what this means. There's new polling today about it broadly gives us a sense of where Americans are on this issue.
How in particular has this trial impacted the race? We've really sort of been frozen in place in a lot of ways as evidence by polling as well. There is thus far, I think from most of the public polling, it's pretty clear the trial has not been helpful to the president's reelection bid. At the bare minimum, we can say that there hasn't been any dramatic or meaningful hit that Trump has seen in his polling numbers.
That flies completely in the face of conventionalism over the last year or so since his indictment, since his legal troubles really started metastasizing. Of course, the true test of this is going to come on Election Day. But many national Democrats understandably and reasonably had hoped that being on trial for crimes related to hash money and a porn star would be a political liability. Thus far in the polls, we're not seeing that anymore.
And what's funny is these polls also, Simone, tell us the newest one. Say whether he's convicted or quitted, it's going to change the deal for very few Americans. Right now we have a debate. It's only a few weeks away.
That's the next sort of shake up point, as it were here. But it's clear that the White House had an expectation that, hey, when you see this guy in the courtroom day and Day out, Americans really start to get a better understanding of it. Is the White House disappointed? Surprised this hasn't had bigger impact?
You know, I think the White House actually realized and we saw this earlier this week when Michael Tyler, the communications director and some very famous people, Robert De Niro, were outside the courthouse having a press conference with two former Capitol Police officers who served during January 6th. When Michael Tyler was asked, well, why are you here? And he said, because you all are here, I. E.
You, the press, I think they actually realized that they cannot just allow this to play out and be high brow about it all. This usually how some of my former colleagues at the White House like operate highbrow with the White House. You gotta make sure people get this right. Yeah, because.
Because this is very different than the last court proceeding we saw. Actually the one where I'm thinking of this. Finally, Willis and her hearing. It was appointment television, live was a little salacious, but it was broadcast on live television.
Anyone could tune in, watch it anywhere. This is not that we're reading from a transcript and although there's some very dramatic reads, it is not the same thing as live telev. I think that's part of the reason this court case has not pierced every day, you know, the everyday non political chat bubble, if you will, as the Fonny Willis case and as you make clear. The White House states have said to me that the expectation was in the hope that debate will make the clear dating of the audience to Americans.
Hey, this is a choice between these two. You can, a lot of Americans surprisingly don't realize Donald Trump's likely to be the Republican, is the presumptive Republican nominee. They wanted this all to be clear for them. That hasn't happened to this point.
Maybe it happens when the two stand side by side, but for Donald Trump, has this harms him in any form to give him a platform each and every day to stand before the cameras and be on television each night. And it's really interesting. This is sort of unknown territory. We've never had a president of the former president of the United States in court as Donald Trump is.
I think it's a real double edged sword and I'm not saying anything I think we haven't all said before and I'm going to say again about this, which is number one, this has the sort of Joe Biden in the basement effect. Right. Donald Trump is often his own worst enemy. He's actually off the scene.
He's not saying that much. He's being meted out to the public in much smaller. That is, on the whole, good for him. Also for a lot of people, they think he's a victim.
Now, you know, we may not agree. We may. But it deepens that sense that the establishment is out to persecute Donald Trump and that's helpful to him as well. So I think the real shoe that drops is exactly what both of you have said, which is, you know, if there's a conviction, then all of a sudden we need to ask people now, what do you think?
My guess is they think, they think before the conviction. I think what these polls also reflect is sort of a broad decade, decades long trend of Americans trust in institutions being a free fall. The fact that our criminal justice system in so many different jurisdictions can accuse Trump of multiple crimes and it doesn't affect his polling by any reasonable. A lot of us has to do this for Trump himself.
But the fact that people don't have confidence in the justice, but so many people are not confident in the Justice Department that people even say that a conviction wouldn't change their view of him more broadly, it's part of hustling where many institutions have taken extraordinary reputational blows. And we're seeing the product of that now. And a reminder, as we've seen so many times, right at the end of day, for the wishful Democrats who thought this might be resolved in a courtroom, if you're going to be Donald Trump, it's going to have to happen at the bout. Absolutely.
At the ballot. That's the only place Franklin Cross ever going to be. Trump, any of these court cases could have impacted the thinking, but it would not take him out of the race. I think the only thing that the court case has done to damage Donald Trump is his inability to be on the campaign trail and fundraise.
He is cash strapped. And the kind of events that the former president likes to put together, those are events that cost anywhere between 15 and $20,000 a pop per event with pop and circumstance. The stage, the pipe and draping that cost money. Push back on for half seconds when Donald Trump gets free media every day.
And he kept a price tag on Donald Trump. But Donald Trump is sitting there given a news conference on live television almost every day. Yeah, the news conferences do not make voters turn out to the polls. He needs money to build infrastructure to literally turn people out.
This is going to be a turnout of elections still. It's going to be the election. And the lack of infrastructure investment from the Republican National Committee and the Trump campaign I think will hurt them come November. What you're saying is really smart.
And this I really do agree with partisan spin to this one. Donald Trump has focused so much on himself and on buttressing the people around him, getting his daughter in law and a crony into the Republican National Committee. They have not done what's necessary at the state level. And while I think it will still be very difficult for the Democrats, the reality is this stuff matters.
It costs money. It requires organization and professionalism. And that is something that we really are not seeing yet. Yeah, all good points.
Appreciate you guys being with us. Betsy, Danny, Simone, glad to stick around for a little bit. We got more news talk about coming up. And reporting on the Biden administrations decision to secretly allow Ukraine to use US Weapons in strikes inside Russia.
The very latest from the White House and from the Pentagon is next. Plus, extreme heat hits the world's largest election. Voters in India are sweating it out while heading the polls in a brutal record breaking heat wave. Get this, temperatures unofficially hitting 126 degrees.
New reporting from New Delhi is straight ahead. You're watching the PRESS now. Welcome back. We do have some news that's breaking from the White House.
The Biden administration quietly made a significant shift in policy when it comes to US Supplied weapons to Ukraine. Just the past few minutes, a US Official confirmed to me the President Biden secretly gave Ukraine permission to use US Supplied weapons to strike inside Russia, but solely around the city of Kharkiv. That's the second largest city in Ukraine. It comes at a crucial time as Russia continues to make gains in northeast Ukraine, specifically targeting that Kharkiv region.
This move from President Biden follows similar announcements by the French president, President Macron, German Chancellor Scholz, who both said they support Ukraine using weapons to strike targets in Russia. Joining me now on set as NBC News global security reporter dan delus. Kelly ODonnell, my colleague, is at the White House for the latest. Kelly, let's get you quick.
This is a notable shift in policy by the White House and comes amid critical a lot of pressure right now. The administration get on the same page as what NATO and America's European allies have been saying. That's right, Peter. The original intent here was President Biden and his administration wanted to be careful to provide weapons but to not be so provocative that American weapons could be used inside Russia for perhaps drawing the US Into a direct conflict with Russia.
That has been one of the principal ideas behind the president's approach since the war in Ukraine began. Now we're at a point two plus years into the Fighting where what we see is that Ukraine has suffered dramatic setbacks over the just a relentless push from Russia and some of that is staged inside Russia and then targeting Ukraine. And so making this adjustment, which as you pointed out, is aligned with some of the thinking of European allies who are also critically important in support for Ukraine, would allow Ukraine to prevent those attacks by striking inside Russia at the bases or operation points where Russian soldiers and forces are working on their own land, but projecting munitions into Ukraine. So that's the sort of of scope that we're talking about here.
This isn't about going to Moscow or a more aggressive approach, but trying to prevent damage by attacking inside Russia where needed. This conversation, you are talking in the break here. This is part of a pattern. It's one that conservatives, Republicans, criticize the White House on here, which is then sort of slow walking in the eyes of these critics being reluctant before finally agreeing tanks, fighter jets and beyond the White House recognizing they need to do more to help Ukraine sort of take the handcuffs off.
That's right. And it's really, you see friction now between the Ukrainian government and the White House because of this pattern. You often have Tony Blinken as Secretary of State, Bill Burns, the CIA director, staking out the bolder, more aggressive stance in those policy deliberations. The end result is the White House and the president come around.
But Ukrainians will say, look at the time lost, look at the lives lost. And now you have a fairly desperate situation there in the north. And they desperately feel they need to hear hit Russian forces just over the border. So that's so specifically it is to try to keep this in a narrow realm.
As we heard from Kelly there, the desire is not to start targeting Moscow, go nowhere near Vladimir Putin, so to speak, the Kremlin try to target these forces and other launch points where this offensive is coming from. That's right, because the White House wants to send a message through to Moscow like, you know, we don't want a direct conflict with Russia. That's right. But so these will be.
This is a limited area around the border. Having said that, Ukraine on its own with its drones that they make themselves have been striking inside Russia repeatedly. And he's trying to sabotage actions where they hit oil facilities over here, hit an air base. So those will continue.
And of course, that's really angered Moscow. And tell you what I'm struck by here is we put this into political terms quickly. You got what's going on in Gaza with Israel. You got what's going on between Russia and Ukraine and in a lot of ways, as it relates to the president's foreign policy, his, I guess his future, his fate is dependent on things out of his control.
What Vladimir Putin and Russia decides to do, in fact, what Benjamin Netanyahu has decided to do, there is only so much control this president has had. But here's an option where they're trying to at least try to seize some control and do more. And so often the case with the president, outside events or other actors can dramatically affect the set of cards that the president must play. That certainly is true here.
We've seen the resistance among lawmakers about supplying Ukraine, as you were talking about delays that might be coming from administration choices. That's been coupled with the delays in getting funding for Ukraine. And it also comes at a time before the G7 summit, which is coming up in Italy in early June. And tomorrow the Belgian prime minister, minister, of course, NATO is housed in Belgium, will be here at the White House.
And it begins and kind of renewed sense of these conversations with European partners about the US Role in trying to defend and protect Ukraine and help it in its own operations against Russia without going beyond that. And of course, politically for the president, he separates the decisions he needs to make, his commander in chief. But the overall politics are certainly being watched by voters here at home who are weary of some of these interventions. And at the same time, you also do see support for a sovereign democratic country like Ukraine among some of the electorates.
So it's a hard needle to thread for the president. And he's trying to maintain and show leadership that the U. S can bring Europeans together and can he can be a supportive partner when they sometimes take a really uncertain things. Yeah.
All spark points are. Kelly, again, I'll ask you one other question on a separate topic. This is relating specifically to the Defense Intelligence community right now releasing new findings about debris from a missile attack that was discovered inside Ukraine. And the determination was made with, as they describe it, almost certainly that this came from a North Korean missile.
This is a big revelation. If it proves to be true, it means that the Russian relationship with North Korea, which we knew to be tight, was even stronger than North Korea could be providing munitions specifically to Russia right now. How concerned is the US about this? And frankly, how concerned should we be about this pattern?
And that's the way it's going. I think it's very concerning. And the intelligence community has been warning now for a while. You have this deepening kind of alliance between Russia, North Korea and most of all China.
And this is a case where you have North Korea already helping Russia give them a lot of artillery ammunition. And then in this case, they're actually using North Korean ballistic missiles and they used the dia. Look at photos, publicly available photos. Yes.
And they just show that, you know, look, these missiles are clearly North Korean. And they came to that conclusion. So it's yet another example of this country of what the US Considers this kind of nefarious network of authoritarian states all lining up against Ukraine and other democratic countries. They also reveal that Vladimir Putin needs the systems other countries to have the munitions needs to continue this war now two and a half years old.
And Kelly Donald at the White House. Cal, always to see you. Coming back, rising concerns that Israel seizure of other key border crossing in the Gaza could deepen the already dire humanitarian crisis. We'd have the very latest on the war there.
You're watching Beat THE PRESS now. Welcome back. I'm Peter Alexander. Conditions in Gaza are, quote, worse now than ever before.
That's according to the USAID administrator Samantha Power in Post on X, formerly Twitter. Power went on to say Israeli military operations and closed crossings are making it extremely difficult, difficult to distribute aid. This comes as the UN says, aid distribution into Gaza has dropped by 67% since Israel seized control of the Rafa border crossing earlier this month. Yesterday, Israel announced that it has expanded that control, now has operational control over the entire border between Egypt and Gaza known as the Fidelity Fidelity Corridor.
NBC News international correspondent Raf Sanchez has more from Tel Aviv. Hey there. Israeli forces say they have seized control of the entirety of the Gaza Egypt border. They refer to it as the Philadelphia Corridor and they say it is of military significance because that's where the Hamas cross border tunnels are, which they use to smuggle weapons supplies from Egypt into Gaza.
Now, the IDF says they have discovered 20 of those tunnels so far. I ask an Israeli official whether they've been operational since October 7th or not. They said they weren't able to tell at this point. They also say they discovered Hamas rocket launchers right up against the border, which they believe Hamas specifically placed there in the hope that Israel would not bomb in that area for fear of striking Egyptian troops on the other side.
But all of this comes after days of Israeli strikes that have caused significant civilian casualties, dozens of Palestinian civilians killed, many of them women and children. And Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is urging Israel to consider whether what he called the incremental military gains it is making in Rafah is worth the human cost. He is urging Israel to swiftly investigate that deadly strike on Sunday night local time, which ignited a firestorm at a camp for displaced people, killing at least 45, according to emergency services in Gaza. Israel says it is investigating and that it was targeting two Hamas commanders who were inside of that camp.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also meeting yesterday with both former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley and Senator Lindsey Graham, and he urged both of them to push the United States to impose sanctions on the International Criminal Court. The court's chief prosecutor, of course, is seeking the arrest of Prime Minister Netanyahu for alleged war crimes in Gaza, including the starvation of Palestinian civilians there, accusations he denies. Back to you says we're very latest. Russ from Tel Aviv.
We do have some breaking news that we have just learned. A verdict has been reached by the jury in former President Donald Trump's hush money fraud trial. Be clear, A verdict has been reached. The jury has not been dismissed for the day, as was initially indicated here.
We are getting our teams together and expect that we will get that information a short period of time. The verdict has not been read to this point so far. Again, a reminder that the former President Donald Trump right now is facing a total of 34 separate counts. These counts relate specifically to an effort to try to cover up in the eyes of prosecutors a separate crime that was committed as related to the 2016 election by the former president.
I want to get to Paul Allen, our attorney, who's with us. Paul, when we said hello to Bayou a few moments ago, we thought that the jury was being dismissed for the day. It's only nine plus hours into its deliberation. They asked for a little bit of testimony to be reread.
They asked for some of the jury instructions to be reread. And then in not too much time, they have come to some conclusion. What do you make of this and what do you think this indicates? Wow, this is a real shocker.
I really expected that they would be out at least until the end of the day tomorrow and probably into next week because of the number of charges. There are 34 charges here that they have to go through methodically. But 34 of all the. Be clear.
All 34 in three buckets. Right. So sort of that if you agree to one, you agree to all 11, all 11 and all 12. You make a good point.
That's true. And the other truth of this case is that if he's even convicted on one count, it's probably the same thing as 34 because he's not going to get consecutive sentences. The max sentence is four years for itself and he's probably not Even going to jail for that. Let me ask you about that specifically.
The judge made very clear it's not up that he got upset at the defense attorney there saying that, hey, it's not up to you to suggest that this guy would be getting jail time if the jurors come back with a guilty verdict. Here is jury, is a guilty verdict likely to mean jail time in your view? Acknowledging we don't know what the it is. All I can look at are the statistics on this and it's 1 in 10 convictions of this offense results in a jail sentence and almost always that somebody with an extensive prior record.
And usually charges like these are tied with other charges, tax violations, corporate violations that cause a judge to give a jail sentence. It would be highly, highly unusual for him to get a jail sentence. The only reason that he'd get it is because the judge might be so angry at him because he's been held in contempt essentially 10 times for out of court statements and he really has angered the judge. But I think this judge is wise enough to step back and sentence Trump just like he would any other person convicted of this kind of crime.
And usually it's probation or fine for a first offense. Paul, stay with usui. I do let our audience know that as soon as we have our team together, we'll have a special M News report. Yasin, what are you seeing on the groundhouse before we learn?
So we have a verdict. As you're reporting. We thought that a jury was going to recess at 4:30. In fact we have a verdict.
A note came in just a couple minutes ago. There's a conversation happening inside the court and now, in fact we have a verdict. We don't know what the verdict is yet. Reading a direct quote of the note sent by the jury.
Let me read it for you. Now we the jury have a verdict. We would like an extra 30 minutes to fill out the forms if that would be possible. Let me walk you through what's going to happen.
So the jury four person are going to fill out the forms in that jury deliberation room. Once those forms are filled out, they're going to come back in to the courtroom. The jury four person will then read out the verdict count by count. Want to remind folks there are 34 counts here involving 12 counts with regards to ledgers, 11 counts with regards to invoices, 11 counts with regards to checks.
After they have read out all of those counts, the judge must then ask the jury for person if everybody agrees with the verdicts that have just been read. Out by the jury four person and they must all then agree this also so there's no mistrial and also for appeal purposes as well so that everybody is in agreement that it's on the record as well. So right now we are waiting for the jury to fill out this form for this verdict. Once they do, they'll be brought back into the courtroom.
That verdict will then be read. We walk you through inside the court right now. The entire prosecution team is inside that courtroom. I do not have an indication as to whether or not DA Alvin Drag is inside that courtroom.
I know that Donald Trump himself, the former president of the United States presented the Republican nominee for president as well as inside that courtroom. Todd Blanche is the attorney's inside that courtroom. Susan Necklace as well. Bovi one of his attorneys as well as inside that quarter.
Eric Trump, his son is in the courtroom as well as well as Andrew Giuliani, Regiliani's son. They are all awaiting this verdict that could really change the course of history in this country, I would say and is something that many of us have been waiting on pins and needles this country really to hear what happens inside that courtroom behind us. Remember, six weeks here, this trial has been ongoing. This Trump has 20 trial.
It's not the trial we thought we go forward first. These four criminal trials in which the former president is facing. However, it is the trial trial that did in fact go first. And it may be the only trial to happen before the November election.
And what comes out of that court here behind us may very well set into motion what will happen in November as we await a verdict in the Trump trial. Yes, we'll allow you to do a little more reporting there. So we have a detailing color you can get from behind the scenes. You can imagine that courtroom right now is present and sitting there in fact ruling its heels for most of this entire day.
And now learns on the second day of jury deliberations that the verdict has been reached by the jurors. Those 12 Manhattanites coming up with the final decision here. Paul, I want to get back to you for a second on this. Just a couple points of clarification.
Again to be clear, we have no idea what the verdict will be. We don't know if it's a hum jury and it will a guilty verdict. But to be clear, once a verdict is reached here, Donald Trump if convicted is not yet a convicted felon. That wouldn't be the case specifically until sentencing took place here.
But are there any other appeals that could take place here or is is this in effect the final word? Well, there can't be an appeal here. Obviously, the conviction becomes final when sentencing is completed. And that's not going to happen probably for another month or so because probation would do a report and report back to the judge and the judge would then sentence.
Then a notice of appeal is filed and it goes up to the appellate Division. And then eventually it would go up to New York's highest court, the court of appeals. So that's how the process works at this point. Yep.
I appreciate that. I want you guys to stay with us. Paul, stay with us. Stay with us.
Our panel is with us as well. Right now. We are going to have an NBC News special reporting. The breaking news at this time is that a verdict has been reached by the jury in the hush money fraud trial for the former president Donald J.
Trump. We await and hope for the next 30 minutes to know that conclusion. Here's the NBC News special Report. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of the Drink.
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