Welcome to Meet the Press. Now Peter Alexander here in Washington as the presidential campaign enters a new stage after that historic verdict. A jury finding former President Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, guilty on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, making him the first American president ever convicted of a crime. Judge Juan Merchan scheduled Mr.
Trump's sentencing for July 11th. That's just four days before the start of the Republican National Convention. Just ahead, we're going to dive into what is next in the legal process for the former president who is bound to appeal the conviction. But today we do want to begin with the politics of this moment and what it means for the presidential race that has been essentially frozen by this trial for weeks.
In the 23 hours since the verdict was handed down, we have seen Republicans rally behind the former president as both he and his allies rail against the verdict and attack the fundamentals of the American justice system. This morning, what the campaign billed as a post-verdict news conference, Mr. Trump didn't take any questions. Instead, he delivered a feisty and rambling speech.
He aired his grievances, again baselessly called the trial rigged, attacked the judge, a key witness and President Biden, and criticized everything from the situation on the southern border to both of the impeachment inquiries against him. He also repeatedly made false claims that his prosecution was a targeted political effort. You know what comes out of the White House? Crooked Joe Biden, the worst president in the history of our country.
He's the worst president in the history of our country, the most incompetent. He's the dumbest president we've ever had. We're losing our country. And I really think that this is an event, what took place yesterday with this judge.
We have conflicted, but he's a crooked judge. And you'll understand that. And I say that knowing that it's very dangerous for me to say that. And I don't mind.
We're dealing with a corrupt government. We have a corrupt country. Our elections are corrupt. Our borders are open.
Our borders are going to be closed very soon. November 5th is going to be the most important day in the history of our country. It's important to note that what Mr. Trump is saying there is not true.
The charges in this case were not brought by President Biden. This was a New York case. He was indicted by a New York grand jury and elections in the United States are safe. They are secure.
And the verdict was rendered not by a judge, but by a Manhattan jury. Today's remarks came after some of Mr. Trump's top supporters and vice presidential hopefuls also attacked the verdict as well as the justice system. This is the weaponization of the justice system against their political opponent.
This is a justice system that huss Republicans while protecting Democrats. This was certainly a hoax, a sham. This was devastating for the average American watching it. This is the most outrageous travesty I've ever seen.
And the problem here is Democrats across this line. They've crossed the line in which now the court system is a political weapon. And it's going to be very hard for it not to come back the other way. I would not live in New York State right now.
Absolutely. I wouldn't. Because what New York has showed and what, frankly, the Biden administration has showed is that if you don't do exactly what they want you to do in politics, they will try to use our system, bipartisan system of law and order to throw you in prison. I think that what happened in New York, if you applied it across all 50 states, would be the definition of fascism.
Throwing your political opponents in jail. Thank God it only happened in New York and not the rest of the country. Again, to be clear, the verdict in this case was reached by an impartial jury selected in part by Donald Trump's legal team. There was no evidence the American justice system protects members of one political party over another.
At the White House this afternoon, President Biden addressed the verdict for the first time while responding to former President Trump and his allies' attacks on the justice system. After careful deliberation, the jury reached a unanimous verdict. They found Donald Trump guilty on all 34 felony counts. Now he'll be given the opportunity, as he should, to appeal that decision, just like everyone else has that opportunity.
That's how the American system of justice works. And it's reckless. It's dangerous. It's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they don't like the verdict.
Big picture here. It is impossible to say at this moment what impact this verdict and its reaction is going to have on the race between President Biden and former President Trump. But for a race that has remained so static for so long, this historic verdict and the reaction from President Trump and his allies could be finally the one thing that shakes things up a bit here. And joining us now is our team of reporters.
Dasha Burns is outside Trump Tower there in midtown Manhattan. Shaq Brewster is on the ground in the key battleground state of Wisconsin getting voters' reactions to the verdict. And with the outset here, NBC White House correspondent Mike Memoli and NBC's chief political analyst Chuck Todd will get to our friends here on set in a moment. Dasha, let me get to you outside Trump Tower.
You were there for the news conference earlier. The former president spoke for approaching an hour, didn't take any questions, even though, of course, this was billed as a news conference. How do you characterize what you heard? Yeah, Peter, a bit surprised that he didn't take any questions.
Normally, he loves engaging with the media, but in this case, just a straight speech. It really felt to me a bit like a campaign style speech. He was lashing out at President Biden, at the trial itself, at the judge, at D.A. Bragg, and even lashed out at Michael Cohen, who, of course, is a witness in this case.
And the question is, will there be a gag order violation because of that? But he really took that almost hour to defend himself, to also talk about his priorities, like immigration, like the economy. He also claims that he did want to testify himself, but said he didn't because of risk of perjuring himself or getting in trouble for something else, potentially because he would be open to other kinds of questioning if he were to take the stand. He also, Peter, touted his fundraising.
The campaign tells us that in the hours between the verdict becoming public and midnight last night that they raised $34.8 million through digital fundraising, which is a significant number. And they're pointing to that as evidence that his supporters are rallying around him, Peter. Yeah, so obviously we can't validate any of those numbers at this point, but certainly it did motivate Donald Trump's base here as you speak privately to his aides and his allies right now. How concerned are they about what this verdict could mean for the campaign?
It has been a hypothetical until now, but independents, including some Trump supporters, said it would make them less likely to support Donald Trump. Well, they're remaining pretty defiant. And I think you may have seen Eric Trump's post on social media saying that, you know, May 30th is the day that will be remembered as the day that former President Trump won the election. They are thinking along those lines, like they believe that this is going to be helpful to him politically, even if it's harmful legally.
And because they've seen those bumps in the polls, those bumps in fundraising anytime he has been under indictment or has faced these legal troubles. And they are going to be, as they have been, Peter, campaigning on this. It may have worked better in the primary, but they're not shying away from leaning into the message that he is a political prisoner, as some of his fundraising messages have said recently. Yeah, notable that they call him a political prisoner because there has been no sentence and he may not ever serve time behind bars, but they can frame it however they prefer right now if it helps juice the base, right?
That's the strategy. Let's get to Mike Memoli. He's on set here. You have been keeping a close eye on what's going on at the White House, talking to Biden aides and allies, specifically those in the campaign.
What's been striking is the way that they sort of frame this. As one told you, it's better than an acquittal, but this is not going to be a central message. What's so interesting, Peter, is of the two campaigns, it seems like it's the Biden campaign. Unusual to say that is more relieved that the trial is over than the person who was actually on trial.
Right. And that's because, to put it mildly, there's not a playbook for how to handle a campaign when your opponent is facing a criminal trial. They were struggling in some ways, not just with getting their own message out during the coverage of this case, but also with the calibration of what, if anything, to say about the case itself. So now that this is over, now that this is in the rearview mirror, the campaign is looking ahead to next month's debate as a moment to finally crystallize the choice for voters.
And so you're not going to hear the campaign talking every day about maybe a criminal convict, right, a convicted felon in their political opponent. They're going to get back to the bread and butter issues that they say voters do want to hear about. They're going to try and also, and I think we saw this with the president's remarks today, build up that stature gap between the incumbent president, the person holding the office, the person who is working for American people versus the candidate who is only interested in himself, only focused on grievance. In some ways, everything Trump has done since the verdict has played into the strategy that they're unfolding.
But now they have to execute. And again, you talk about that debate, the first of two to take place on Well, I'm faithful than once shame on you, right? Fool you twice. Well, access Hollywood tape, the Republican Party walked away from it, but it voters did.
And, and that's why I think this trial is not going to have an impact because for the same reason the Clinton impeachment had no impact. Voters knew Trump's moral failings before and they voted for him anyway. People would even say it. You heard it in some of that sound that Chuck had.
So I think this is, I think if you're relying on this, whether you're Trump and think it's a grievance thing is a good idea, you're going to turn off the middle. And if you're Biden and you run on it too much, you celebrate too much. Look, this is a sad day for America. Hard stop.
There should be any celebration. If you're celebrating, you're part of the problem. This is why this country is being ripped apart. He brought this on himself.
That's also a fact too. At the end of the day, let the legal world debate whether Alvin Bragg should have brought this or not. I think it's, I think there's a lot of evidence that Alvin Bragg has still been the best thing for Trump's campaign. Without the Alvin Bragg indictment, I think Donald Trump has a much harder time in the primaries.
It's just a fact of when that indictment happened was at a moment that Trump desperately needed something to rally Republicans around him. So it is, you know, in that sense, it has been weirdly helpful to him up until this point. But if you're talking about it, I think the mistake would be what Trump's doing now. Trying to make this part of the campaign.
You saw that news conference today and honestly said it felt like it was political campaign speech. That's all there is, is a campaign speech. This is what it sounds like. And here's the thing.
The voters are gonna punish whatever candidate is not talking about the issues that they want to talk about. This is why I think the democracy message is not working for Biden. If you care about the democracy, you've already made your decision who you're voting for. The voters that are left are the voters that are going, I wanna buy a house.
It's too expensive. Or I'm really frustrated by this or I'm frustrated by that. They're looking forward. Campaigns that re-litigate the past are destined for failure.
So that, I think that's the way you got to look at this. I think we may see a short-term bump for Biden, just like we saw a short-term bump for Hillary Clinton right after the Access Hollywood tape. And it disappeared almost as quickly as that bump happened. So I ultimately think this is still gonna be about the person that promises a better kind of change in their second term.
And neither, if talking about the trial is not a way to do that. Mike, let me ask you about that in particular. Chuck makes a good point right now, right? And you and I have both been on the trail and you talk to voters there.
Often the voters you meet as a venture, the ones who support Joe Biden, but you go a few blocks away and you talk to some of these other voters right now. And they're not concerned about the sort of, you know, message of the day. They wanna know, hey, what's in it for me? How are you going to make the prices of my groceries cost less?
How are you gonna make it easier for me to buy a home or for my child to be able to, you know, afford moving out of the house right now? How do they get back to that message when the guy has not been successful in breaking through the noise of the season? Every single demographic, every poll shows the number one issue, cost of living, inflation. And the Biden team has seemed to concede that there's nothing they're going to be able to do to fix the inflation problem.
So they're trying to make this a whose side are you on? Who are you fighting for question? The president may have some economic announcements to make over the course of the rest of the year to try to say we're bringing cost down. We're trying to, you know, forgive student loans to put more money in your pocket.
But the real contrast they're really hoping to seize on this trial to the extent that they are, is he is only worried about his own interests, his own, whether he's free or not convicted or not. And the president is fighting for people, including the middle class where he grew up on. So they're trying to make it a stylistic, whose side are you on? Chuck, last thought, the next big shakeup moment is gonna be this debate on June 27th here.
The Biden campaign wanted this thing early because they needed to shake things up right now to try to find a way to break through. It is performative in a lot of ways here. How much does it matter? Look, I think it matters to both of them at this point, right?
You gotta see his Trump got over his agreements, right? There's a couple of ways this debate could go. Perhaps Biden is able to bait Trump into only talking about his legal problems. Perhaps Trump is able to bait Biden into sort of getting angry.
And then they're just sitting there cursing at each other, right? And, you know, my great fear of this debate is for the country, that you do have these two guys start yelling at each other, perhaps cursing on national television, our two presidents for the first time. And all of a sudden, there's a whole bunch of new Kennedy curious voters. That could be the unintended consequence of this early debate, is that it gives a new opening to Kennedy to have a conversation with Trump off voters.
Yeah, as John Beecham said earlier, it has been Donald Trump who's on trial pretty soon. It's America that's on trial. Americans are gonna have to render their verdict coming pretty soon on all of this. Chuck Todd, I appreciate you.
Mike Memley, nice to see you in person. Appreciate your expertise on this historic week. And coming up right here, what is next for the former president legally? We're gonna walk through the appeals process, what to expect from sentencing, and we'll have more, of course, with our legal experts.
That's next. Plus, outrage and partisan pushback. As we mentioned, Donald Trump's defenders are working to flip the script on the former president's historic guilty verdict. My one-on-one interview with one of Mr.
Trump's top congressional allies is straight ahead. You're watching Meet the Press Now. Welcome back to Meet the Press Now. As we have said, the sentencing for former president Trump is scheduled for July 11th.
And after that, former president Trump and his legal team have made it clear that they plan to appeal his conviction. The former president reiterated that intent today while making false claims about the judge and about the trial. So we're gonna be appealing this scam. We're gonna be appealing it on many different things.
He wouldn't allow us to have witnesses. He wouldn't allow us to talk. He wouldn't allow us to do anything. The judge was a tyrant.
There are avenues for appeal, and defense attorney Todd Blanche has said the judge, Judge Merchand, not recusing himself, is one item that they will bring up. But to be clear, the judge did not ban Mr. Trump's lawyers from calling witnesses or prevent them from talking other than opposing a gag order that limited what Mr. Trump could say about witnesses, court officials, or jurors.
You say whatever you wanted about the judge. I'm joined now by former federal prosecutor Elise Adamson and former assistant Manhattan district attorney Daniel Horowitz. Dan, let me get to you right away. Walk us through what happens between now and July 11th, the date of the scheduled sentencing.
Right, so some of it's very procedural. Some of it's substantive. So what's gonna happen is both sides are gonna start preparing sentencing memorandum. And each side will prepare something for the judge to talk about what they think the sentence should be.
And as part of that process, the defendant, Donald Trump, who is now convicted, is gonna have to meet with the Department of Probation that will prepare a special report that the judge can use about his background and a variety of things that the judge will wanna look at in considering what a sentence will be. So he's one of the most familiar people in the planet right now. Does that process still need to take place? Well, it has to take place because it's required by law.
You're absolutely right. I said to somebody earlier today, it's hard to believe that there's any detail about Donald Trump's life that hasn't already been written about or covered. So my guess is that there's not gonna be something that's gonna be surprising in the report. What will be interesting, though, is that Donald Trump as a convicted felon has to meet with the Department of Probation.
There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. He can't get out of it. And it's an interview that in some ways is very routine and in some ways is very probing. But that's probably the most important thing that's gonna take place between now and then.
And then if Trump and his team think that there are grounds for a post-trial motion, I know that we know that the defendant already made a motion to set aside the jury's verdict, which Judge Marshawn denied. But they may make additional motions, particularly given this defendant and how litigious he is. Elise, let me ask you specifically about what the DA's decision is. Alvin Bragg has to make a choice.
Is he gonna go for jail time here as the sentence? The judge will have the final decision here. But first on jail time and second related to that, to the gag order violation. So they have any impact on this decision?
I mean, there were fines, but Donald Trump attacked the judge to say nothing of his family, the jurors and key witnesses throughout this trial. Yes, Peter, you're absolutely This is a question a lot of Americans have been asking, not just about the intelligence briefings, but frankly about how you can be convicted and still be a candidate for president. So let's get to those intelligence briefings. When will they begin?
They usually begin after the party conventions are held. So the Republican convention is due to be held mid-July in Milwaukee. So shortly after that, that's when the former President Trump would get his first intel briefing as the nominee after being formally named the nominee. That's how they've done it in the past, going all the way back to 1952.
Are any of the briefing materials amended because of this conviction? Does anything change? The U.S. officials would say no, but what is true is that these are kind of limited intelligence briefings.
This isn't the full serving that you get when you are actually in the White House. So they do not reveal sources, sensitive sources. They don't reveal methods, how intelligence has been gathered. It's more broad brush.
It's more of an overall view of threats around the world. And the idea being that it's not sufficient for a nominee. But of course, there still are sensitive things there that get briefed, and they will be watching, I think, the debates and public comments. They always do.
And in past elections, there were kind of controversies about what different candidates said during the campaign or during a debate. And of course, Richard Nixon held a grudge for years against John F. Kennedy because he felt some of the information in the intel briefings was used to his advantage. And he claimed there was a missile gap and so on during the Cold War.
So there is some room here for concern, but they are claiming that they are not going to somehow censor the intel briefing. Yeah, and a good reminder that Donald Trump has also been indicted for mishandling of classified documents, those documents that were later discovered at his Mar-a-Lago property in Florida. Dan DeLuise, my friend, thank you very much for your reporting. Coming up here after the break, Donald Trump and his allies take aim at the legal system and vow retribution after the historic guilty verdict.
Republican Congressman Byron Donalds, one of former President Trump's most vocal supporters, will join me next. But first, NBC News caught up with some voters in Ballinger, Georgia, for their reactions to the hush money verdict hours after it came down. Honestly, I'm not a bit surprised that he's convicted. I mean, personally, not personally.
Honestly, what does it change? So many people are behind him. I don't see him losing regardless of the verdict. Ethically, I would want to vote for a president that is ethically upright.
And I can't say the same for either president right now, which makes me incredibly uncomfortable. Welcome back. As we mentioned, former President Trump's allies are rallying to his defense after yesterday's historic guilty verdict. And now the Republican-led House Subcommittee on the Weaponization of government is requesting the Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and the prosecutor there, Matthew Colangelo, to testify before the committee.
And joining me now is Florida Republican Congressman Byron Donalds, whose name has been reportedly on a short list for possible vice presidential picks for the former president. Congressman Donalds, I appreciate your being with us. Let me get right to that news. Your colleagues on the House Judiciary's Weaponization Committee are demanding Manhattan D.A.
Alvin Bragg and prosecutor Matthew Colangelo testify in two weeks. Is it the place of Congress to be looking into state jury verdicts? First of all, it's good to be with you. Number one, absolutely it is.
We do send federal funds to local jurisdictions all across the country. Number two, it's Alvin Bragg who decided to reach into the federal jurisdiction in order to make these misdemeanors felonies. You've got to remember, the core of this argument is dealing with the federal election of 2016. That is not the jurisdiction of a state prosecutor in lower Manhattan.
That is the jurisdiction of the Federal Election Commission, the federal election commission, by the way, that looked at this in 2018 and said there was nothing here. But let me push back on that if I can. This case obviously was indicted by a state grand jury. It was decided by a Manhattan jury.
The appeals process hasn't played out. Why not allow the appeals process the way our system works to be completed? Because you've got to understand, and let's just be real about this, the entire reason why these charges were brought now, why this case was brought now, was to interfere with the 2024 presidential election. It was to interfere.
It was to trap Donald Trump in a courtroom. That's the entire purpose. Everybody knows it. Are you going to let me finish or are you going to talk over me?
Are you going to sit back and let me talk? Okay, let me talk. Here's the deal. Everybody knows that the appeals process is going to go well into 2025 after the election is over.
Say what you will about the merits of the case. We have never in American history had prosecutions of the leading presidential candidate of any major party in the United States. This has never happened. So much so that Maine justice, their own protocols are that they don't do this in the heat of a presidential election.
But what we have seen out of the Department of Justice led by Merrick Garland out of Alvin Bragg in lower Manhattan out of Fannie Willis in Georgia is that they do not care about the norms of our election process. They just want to get Donald Trump. So the Weaponization Committee does have a responsibility to investigate. So respectfully, let me push back for a second.
Is this the same Justice Department that you say has weaponized this right now that as we speak is prosecuting the Democratic senator from New Jersey, Robert Menendez? They're pursuing a case against the Democratic representative from Texas, Henry Cuellar. And beginning on Monday, they're going to be pursuing the start of the trial against the president's son, Hunter Biden, on a gun charge. So how can it be both ways where they're only pursuing this as a way to weaponize it when they're pursuing Democrats and Republicans?
I'm glad you brought that up. First of all, Bob Menendez, he had gold bars with his name engraved on them. And Bob Menendez is not running for president of the United States. Number two, Henry Cuellar is not running for president of the United States.
So it only matters if it's the president of the United States. It doesn't matter below that highest office. Of course, because you're interfering with a presidential election. But what I hear you say before, Joe Biden doesn't have any control over the presidential election.
That's the issue here. Joe Biden doesn't have any control over what the Manhattan D.A. does. Matthew Colangelo was the number three guy at Maine Justice under Merrick Garland who works for Joe Biden.
He left there to go be a frontline prosecutor in lower Manhattan. I mean, look, that right there demonstrates that you have some semblance of collusion because never in the legal system, according to my knowledge, have you had somebody working at Maine Justice in the number three position leave to go be a frontline prosecutor on a case in New York City. This happens to be the case of a former president who is the chief political rival of Joe Biden. So this stinks to high heaven.
Everybody knows it stinks to high heaven. And that is why you have millions of people going to DonaldJTrump.com supporting President Trump, donating to President Trump, wanting to volunteer for President Trump because this is election interference and it is a political persecution of Joe Biden's political rights. If President Trump wins his appeal, will you support that verdict? Of course, because this case should never have been brought in the first place.
So if he loses his appeal, will you support that then? This case should have never been brought. You were talking about a federal crime that has never actually been decided by the Federal Election Commission. They looked into this and they said there's nothing to see here.
Alvin Bragg pulls it up as a state prosecutor outside of his jurisdiction and ties in some bookmaking charge that is long since passed, the law passed since when that charge was no longer allowed to be utilized in state court, all to twist it together in a legal theory to get felony convictions. Come on, man. This case is a joke. You know it.
I know it. The American people know it. Let me ask you, the president's son, Donald Trump Jr., said, quote, November 5th is going to be retribution. Do you agree with that?
Is that the stakes of this election? I think that November 5th, the American people are going to weigh in on exactly what they think has happened in lower Manhattan, what they think Joe Biden has done in his job as president because he's been the master of disaster. Everything has gone wrong under Joe Biden and everybody knows it as well. And it's also going to be a demonstration that the American people want Donald Trump back in the White House because when he was president of the United States, inflation was low.
Our border was secure. The world was much safer. Everything has gone wrong. And the Democrats who like to lecture everybody about wanting to save democracy, they are the ones who are destroying the institutions of our country.
It's got to stop and Donald Trump is the man to do it. Donald Trump on the first day, the first official event of this new campaign season said, I am your retribution. Do you support that statement? I do.
And here's why. Because the American people have watched their cities be overrun by illegal aliens, which is a violation of federal immigration law. Joe Biden doesn't care. They've watched the price of everything in their home go up drastically because of Joe Biden's reckless spending, not caring about the welfare of the American people.
Why is that retribution not policy differences are what you ask. They watched 13 men the price of gas stand in front of a gas station instead of by railing against a judge in a case in New York City. And now we're still five months away from the election, so we get to do both. Right now we're in the moment.
He's obviously seizing that. People still know the gas prices. They still know the immigration problems. And so I think what he's doing now is capturing that energy.
He's obviously bringing new people in as donors and volunteers, and then he can translate that into the real issues because those aren't going to change regardless of this verdict. Donna, let me ask you your thoughts on what you heard from the Republican congressman. Wow, no surprise that just like Donald Trump, he's echoing the same things where, you know, if you win, then it's good. And if you lose, then it's bad.
And so that doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, it's really sad because it's a comment on our system. Well, let's recognize when I asked him about Menendez and asked him about Query, so they're not running for president. So it's different.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. You asked about that. You asked about the dichotomy with Alito and you know, Clarence Thomas and it doesn't matter to them. I mean, they don't really care about those differences.
And I think the American people are going to have to judge for themselves, as they will. I don't think that the verdict yesterday really changes a lot of hearts and minds. They're those slice of people in the middle who are going to make a decision about this election. And those are the people that I think both Donald Trump and Joe Biden have to win over in order to win the race.
Yeah, I think we all agree on that. In fact, Joe Biden and Donald Trump agree on that, right? That's the one thing they agree on. This thing gets resolved on November 5th.
I want to ask you, though, Mark, about Donald Trump. He was impeached twice. He lost his reelection campaign. He cost Republicans the House in 2018.
A lot of the candidates that he backed in 2022, they also lost their races. Why are Republicans so behind Donald Trump after so many losses? Well, I think you see the millions of people. I mean, this is a president who increased his vote total from 2016 to 2020 by millions.
But he still is the incumbent president, has the most votes of incumbent president by anyone ever. You see the energy behind him. You see the fact that he's leading in the polls right now. I know it's not election day yet, but I do think it's important to note there's not one day in 2019 or 2020, even before the pandemic, that Donald Trump was leading Joe Biden in the RealClearPolitics average.
He's been leading him every day since. Let's be clear, it is trending in his favor right now. You look at these things we give you poll in the morning. Sometimes like, well, what does that mean?
You look at a broad horizon right now. He has been growing his number and it may be higher than 47 percent, which had been a ceiling. So that's something certainly the Biden campaign has to be noting right now. Peter, what is the Biden campaign not doing to this point?
I was struck by the Robert De Niro moment earlier this week. They've been so disciplined, at least, to use a word they would like to use in this situation. All of a sudden they put out to the police officers who were attacked at the Capitol, who have very powerful stories, and Robert De Niro as well. It felt in some ways to critics like they were just joining the circus here.
What is the best strategy for the Biden folks going forward to break through? Yeah, I mean, up until the last few weeks, basically, the rule had been don't touch it. Don't get anywhere near it. You don't want to do anything to fuel the conspiracy theory that former President Trump puts out there that this is all about White House machinations.
So the president doesn't say anything about it. But you saw a shift, not only in the last few weeks where they're kind of inching up to it with the president mocking Trump for falling asleep in court and for sending Robert De Niro. Today, of course, he went out in front of the cameras and gave a pretty full, straightforward condemnation of the former president. He said he was found guilty in a fair trial of 34 counts.
And he said it was reckless and dangerous for Republicans to try to discredit the justice system because they didn't like the verdict. He hasn't done that before. He's decided, obviously, that the conviction yesterday is a new phase. And he now feels free to go ahead and have at least some comment on it.
They're not going to continue that, I don't think. They'll tell you that they're not planning to run ads on it. They're not going to back out of the debate saying it's unseemly for a president. If you care about democracy, presumably you're already in Biden's camp on this thing, right?
There's another issue that affects us more than any other. I mean, the real voters who matter here are those who voted against Trump and for Biden four years ago but are disenchanted with Biden because of inflation, because of his age, because of immigration, what have you. And can he get them back? It doesn't seem like they're likely to go to Trump, but they might stay home.
They might vote for third party candidates and might not vote for Biden. So those are the people that Biden's focused on. Donna, let me ask you if I can, Congressman Edwards here. Excuse my casualness in this conversation on a Friday afternoon.
I want to turn your home state, Larry Hogan, the Republican there. He's running for the open Senate seat in the state. He urged people to respect the verdict and the legal process. And then in response, a Trump campaign advisor, one of the top members of the team, tweeted, you just ended your campaign.
How does Larry Hogan navigate these waters right now where he is the furthest thing from a MAGA Republican and maybe his biggest advantage, I guess, in the state of Maryland? Well, what we've seen over the last couple of weeks with Larry Hogan is that he navigates it by, you know, going, you know, full on in support of abortion rights. And then now this statement against Donald Trump. Look, I don't think that there are a slew of MAGA voters in Maryland.
And so this was probably a good state call for Larry Hogan, where it's not something that would necessarily work in other places around the country. And I think we're going to have to see. I mean, the more that Donald Trump attacks Larry Hogan, I think, you know, that could actually pay off for Hogan in Maryland. Yeah, with a lot of independent-minded voters.
Well, we've got a lot of Democrats, too. Yeah, no, certainly. Well, let's stay. Mark, if I can, so the next big date that we're going to look to is June 27th.
That's the first of two debates. There are only so many moments that shake this thing up, or potentially in the Biden campaign's world crystallize things. They are concerned is that most Americans didn't even really believe yet that Donald Trump would be the nominee. They want them to see the two and say, hey, this is your choice.
It's me or the other guy here. What does Donald Trump need to do there? He keeps building, you know, sort of whacking at Joe Biden saying this guy can barely stand for an hour and a half. Is that the best strategy moving forward?
Well, I think obviously as long as he stays on the policy, he can compare records every day with Joe Biden and he wins. You say stay on the policy. He's barely been on the policy. Well, stay.
Well, just focus on the policy. Focus on the results. Focus on gas, immigration and grocery prices. And the challenge is going to be when Joe Biden fumbles or stumbles and how do you and how do you react?
Because that's why I believe this is a Hail Mary by the Biden campaign to try to change the narrative. Because we also we also had the interview a few weeks ago with Aaron Burnett. There's no teleprompter in a debate and you cannot freeze. There's no editing.
And we will see right on stage whether your uncle was eaten by cannibals or you've driven a semi truck. And you've got to create an answer in two minutes. We'll let them litigate everything, including cannibalization. Mark, if I can say the next big date that we're going to look to is June 27th.
That's the first of two debates. There are only so many moments that shake this thing up or potentially in the Biden campaign's world crystallize things. They are concerned is that most Americans didn't even really believe yet that Donald Trump would be the nominee. They want them to see the two and say, hey, this is your choice.
It's me or the other guy here. What does Donald Trump need to do there? He keeps building, you know, sort of whacking at Joe Biden saying this guy can barely stand for an hour and a half. Is that the best strategy moving forward?
Well, I think obviously as long as he stays on the policy, he can compare records every day with Joe Biden and he wins. You say stay on the policy. He's barely been on the policy. Well, stay.
Well, focus on the policy. Focus on the results. Focus on gas, immigration and grocery prices. And the challenge is going to be when Joe Biden fumbles or stumbles and how do you and how do you react?
Because that's why I believe this is a Hail Mary by the Biden campaign to try to change the narrative. Because but we also we also had the