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If it's Wednesday, the final sprint begins to deal. The deal to avert a government default is heading to the House floor as President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy make one last push to get it passed amid backlash from their own party bases. Plus, the top two candidates in the Republican presidential primary, both hitting the trail in Iowa this week as Ron DeSantis responds to one of Donald's many attacks and vows to impose his will on Washington. And a federal prosecutor seeking the death penalty tell jurors that the Pittsburgh synagogue mass shooter acted with, quote, malice and hatred when he carried out the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in American history.
Welcome to Meet the Press. Now I'm Chuck Todd reporting here in Washington, where House lawmakers are now just hours away from a final vote on the deal to raise the debt ceiling with five days until a potential government default, according to the Treasury Secretary. The White House and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy spent the past 72 hours trying to shore up support for the bill inside their own political parties. Some conservatives are publicly frustrated that the deal doesn't include more cuts to spending and some progressives upset over, among other things, work requirements for some people receiving government assistance.
This morning, Speaker McCarthy made one final plea to holdouts inside his caucus. We are getting so many wins for the American people in this bill. Don't miss out. Don't sit back and think, I wanted something so much more.
Yeah, there's a lot of things I want too. But this is one that moves us in the right direction. You're not spending more money. There's no new government programs.
There's no tax increases. There's nothing in the bill that you really should be negative about. And what he probably wants to add is, and nobody thought I'd get into the negotiating table, and I did. As McCarthy made his push, the White House sent its team of negotiators to Capitol Hill trying to reassure anxious Democrats who wanted the president to hold out for a better deal or frankly, never had even started negotiating at all.
One lawmaker the White House could not convince is a key player who represents Biden's face. Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair Pramila Jayapal. People need to still continue to have faith in us to fight for them. This is not our deal.
I mean, even the White House would say that this is a negotiated deal. This is not our deal. This is a right wing, center right deal. And if we want to have credibility with the progressive wing of the party, then we need to be able to show that we're fighting for them.
Yes, despite that opposition from the left and the outrage from the right, most people on Capitol Hill expect the debt ceiling deal to pass later tonight. So does the president. We're going to deal with the debt ceiling. We got I think things are going as planned.
God willing, I'll have I'll be landing in Colorado tonight in preparation for my commencement speech at Air Force Academy tomorrow. And God willing, by the time I land, Congress will have acted. The House will have acted and we'll be one step closer. Right now, the House is holding a procedural vote on the deal.
Assuming it clears this hurdle, the main vote on the legislation will take place in just a couple of hours. And if that vote passes, the House then will hand that hot potato over to the Senate tomorrow, which is facing its own intra-party squabbling over the deal. Here's Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer today urging his chamber, which isn't known for its speed, to get ready to move quickly. I cannot stress enough that we have no margin, no margin for error.
Either we proceed quickly and send this bipartisan agreement to the president's desk or the federal government will default for the first time ever. It is imperative that we avoid a default. So let's see where things stand now. Ali Vitale is on the Hill for us with the latest.
So Ali, we've got the the vote on the rule, which really is the vote on the bill. How the rule goes will how the vote will go. Where are we on that? And I guess the over under is, are there going to be 150 Republicans voting for it in the House?
I guess we're about to see because you're right. In order to get to the main vote, you have to vote on the rule. Right now, it looks like we are inching towards that about 100 people have yet to vote. According to the last time I looked down at my phone, 20 of the no votes against this rule were from Republicans and their names that we would expect.
It's people like Chip Roy. It's people like Smarts, people who told us initially that they were going to be a no both on this rule procedural vote, but then also later on when it comes to voting on the bill itself. In fact, we believe that there are more than 30 at this point. No votes from just within the Republican side of this equation that we're already factoring in.
Nevertheless, Speaker McCarthy has been clear the multiple times I've talked to him about this today saying that he still thinks that he's going to get the majority of the majority. And of course, he will need some Democrats to come along on this. We're just waiting to see how many that actually is. As I look at the screen next to us, obviously they're holding this vote open.
But look, you can't do later without doing this. That's a big number already for Kevin McCarthy. 150. I don't know how you get a motion to vacate when, you know, you're going to get close to 70, 75% of the conference with McCarthy on this one, right?
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that the logic and the numbers always prevail, right? I mean, you and I did 17. We've banned logic here a long time ago. This is not a building that focuses on that too often.
But I think the real mood when it comes to a motion to vacate, at least in the conversations that I've had, to the extent that people are talking about it. Sure, it kind of looms over everything. But I think there is an appetite to get through this crisis before Republicans create another crisis, this one of their own making. Let's talk about the Senate.
There are ways for senators to gum this up. We know Mitch McConnell doesn't want to gum it up and we know Chuck Schumer doesn't want to gum it up. But that doesn't mean there aren't some senators that won't figure out how to gum it up. What should we watch for here and what's the hurdle that leadership on both sides are most concerned about?
So we always know that the Senate can do things as quickly or as slowly as they decide. If a hundred of them come together and say, let's do this as quickly as possible, they will do that. I think in a situation like this, when you think about who might gum up the process, the names are usually the same at each turn of the spending dial. We look at people like Rand Paul, Mike Lee.
Both of them have said that they want to see votes on various amendments. That could be something that if they get votes on amendments, it allows the process to go more quickly because they'll get something that they wanted, even though they expect this to be a vote that goes through. It's really just a question of timing at this point, but the clock really starts for the Senate on this as soon as the House is able to send it over. So there is a big difference.
In fact, Chuck, with them sending it over from the House before midnight tonight, that would save them a day and allow them to come in, hopefully on time for this X date deadline. But again, we have no idea what the Senate schedule actually is yet because Schumer hasn't said it. We just know they need to do it quickly. There are some amendments that Democrats are pushing for.
Isn't Tim Kaine pushing for one? So this isn't going to be a clean process, correct? Yeah, not necessarily a clean process, especially because the one that Tim Kaine is pushing for is on the Mountain Valley pipeline, which was a priority for Joe Manchin, not something that Tim Kaine wants to have in here. So once again, you have the mention of it all as a subplot consistently with any bill that we do here.
He is someone who we are again watching closely on this, but that could be a sticking point too. You know, does that look like an amendment that could pass? And then suddenly Manchin is in flux on this. I mean, there's a few different ways that it can still go off the rails.
But first procedural vote, then get through the House. And then I think we'll fully turn our attention to the Senate where there are a few potholes potentially, but still optimism that they can get this done. I always call Capitol Hill the best beat in politics, but I'll be honest with you, during the debt ceiling talks, it could be a cumbersome process at times too. That's what fuels us right now, Chuck.
Exactly. Go get them, Ali. You've been doing great. Ali Vitale, Capitol Hill force.
Ali, thanks for that reporting. And to give us the White House perspective, they asked Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg to join us. And he joins me now. Mr.
Secretary, it's always good to see you, sir. Good to be with you. Thanks for having me on. Let me start with the deal and the effort you believe congressional Democrats should be making to pass this deal.
There's a lot of cranky congressional Democrats about this deal. They didn't like accepting the premise that you negotiate over the debt ceiling. What responsibility do you think congressional Democrats have to pass this bill for the president? Look, obviously, we all would have loved to see a the wealthiest and corporations pay their fair share, that it can be done while being reasonable in holding the line on spending but not inflicting self-defeating cuts.
And that's one thing I want to emphasize, and your question kind of got to that, part of what makes it possible for us to sustain our fiscal path is the continued strong growth of the American economy. And I would point to infrastructure as Exhibit A of where you could be penny-wise and pound-foolish if you think that every expenditure that isn't defense needs to be cut in the name of doing something about the debt. You might actually be hamstringing the very economic growth that you need. So I think most Americans appreciate that we need to reduce the deficit, that we don't want to just continue seeing the debt escalate, without believing that has to lead to these kind of savage cuts, especially if Congress hasn't been willing to make sure that the wealthy pay their fair share, which is why we point to things like the enforcement provisions that will help make sure you have fewer tax cheats, which is something that adds to the debt without creating any economic value.
But it is interesting. I mean, it does feel as if each party has come to this uncomfortable, well, look, we're not raising taxes, is what Republicans say, and Democrats are like, we're not going to really, we don't want to reduce spending here. We think spending creates economic growth. They think tax cuts create economic growth.
Are we doomed to never lower the debt? Well, look, again, the first step in lowering the debt is lowering the deficit. The last president blew up the deficit. This president's cutting it down.
That's what it looks like to begin making progress on this issue, and that's what we'll continue to pursue. Mr. Secretary, thank you. There's more of my interview with Secretary Buttigieg on our website, meetthepress.com.
An interesting exchange we had about broadband and electricity to rural America. Coming up, as the 2024 Republican frontrunners vote barnstorm Iowa this week, the field is about to get even bigger next week. Three more candidates are now days away from launching their own bids for the White House. They're all longshot bids.
We'll live in the Hawkeye state next. Plus, one-on-one with one of the Republican Party's most outspoken critics of this debt limit deal. The congressman is calling his party's efforts to quote, a dismal failure. That's ahead.
You're watching Meet the Press Now. Welcome back. Turning now to the top story in 2024 politics, and it's all in Iowa this week. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is in the midst of his first Hawkeye state swing as an announced presidential candidate.
He was just outside of Des Moines yesterday. He's hitting Sioux City, Council Bluffs, Pella, and Cedar Rapids all today. That's essentially crisscrossing the state. The DeSantis campaign says he's looking to pull off what's known as a full grassley.
He says he will visit all 99 counties before the caucuses. Later today, the Republican frontrunner, Donald Trump, will also touch down in Iowa for a rare overnight trip. What hotel did he find to do this in? It's his first since DeSantis formally declared his candidacy.
For DeSantis, this trip is an opportunity to relaunch his campaign in a retail setting after last week's sputtering start on Twitter Spaces. He's also using the trip to push back at least a little bit against the barrage of attacks from Donald Trump, including Trump's recent kind of weird accusation that New York's governor handled the pandemic better than Florida. At least weird as far as Republican politics is concerned. Take a listen.
I'm going to respond to attacks. I mean, if you say Cuomo did a better job with COVID than Florida did, first of all, that's not what he used to say. This is like new. Like, six months ago, he would have never said that, right?
He used to say how great Florida was. Hell, his whole family moved to Florida under my governorship. Are you kidding me? That's the criticism is ridiculous.
But it is an indication that the former president would double down on his lockdowns from March of 2020. Dasha Burns is on the ground in Iowa following the DeSantis campaign. She joins me now. So, Dasha, what are you seeing?
What are you feeling from so far this trip? What kind of interactions has he had with real voters, the media, etc.? Well, it has been a little bit different. I mean, Chuck, I think this is the third time we're now talking about DeSantis in Iowa.
But this is the first time that he's been here as a candidate. And so the game has absolutely changed. And he did hold his first press availability as a candidate last night. And we got to ask him a question.
I asked him about that sort of pivot that Trump has now made on Disney. Initially, he was bashing DeSantis for going after the entertainment giant. Now he's calling the company woke and saying DeSantis didn't do something about it soon enough. DeSantis called it bizarre and then kind of went on that sort of attack line on Trump about both Disney and about COVID.
And this is the most direct, perhaps most animated that we've heard DeSantis when he came to the former president. During his sort of more formal speech when he was addressing voters, he was a little bit more even keeled, a little pull the punches a little bit. He used some subtle jabs without directly naming the former president. But it was in that interaction with the media where he was much more direct.
And that's where sort of the authenticity came through. In fact, I talked to one voter who watched him in both the speech that he gave to voters and was there for the press availability, which was a combination of media and some supporters were in the room as well. And he felt like it was in that media environment where he kind of came to life a little bit more. And we witnessed that as well.
His speech, though, was very much leaning into what his brand has really been built upon. And it's the culture wars, education, immigration, abortion and of course, Disney, not necessarily what the company itself is, but what that fight really stands for. I want you to take a listen to some of those greatest hits and we'll talk on the other side. We were able to sign the heartbeat bill into law, the strongest pro-life protections in modern Florida history.
We're the first state in the country to eliminate DEI from our public universities. We actually just signed legislation protecting students from having teachers force them to pick pronouns, which they are doing in some parts of this country at very, very young ages. We're not competing in the pronoun sweepstakes. And Chuck, it's interesting.
As I've been talking to voters, you know, when I was covering the midterms last year, the number one issue that came up was the economy. It was inflation. It was gas prices. Now when I talk to voters, it is those issues.
It's the culture war issues that come up much more often. It's gender ideology. The word woke comes up a lot and people do bring up that fight with Disney as sort of, again, it's not just Disney itself. It's what folks on the right in those GOP primary voters believe is sort of an ideology being pushed on children.
And that is an issue that gets people riled up. It's also a reminder that the economy is improving because whenever you see the pivot directly to culture issues and ignoring the economy, then there is a that's usually the the the sign that there's a political perception that, hey, the economy isn't necessarily a good as good of an issue anymore. Dasha Burns on the road in Iowa. Dasha, thank you.
Joined now by my panel to Lule, which is the White House bureau chief of The Washington Post, or Democratic congressman from Michigan, current distinguished senior fellow at the Center for American Progress Action Fund, Andy Levin and Danielle Fletka is senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and NBC News contributor. So I want to start with I think we're all been so focused on DeSantis versus Trump. DeSantis is starting to lay out a fascinating agenda, depending on your point of view. He is not talking about small government.
He's talking about strong government. Let me play another excerpt from him yesterday. We need people who live in the country to come out to D.C. to reassert the right of we, the people to run our own government.
D.C. has imposed its will on us for far too long. It's time we impose our will on Washington, D.C. It was in the 21st century.
There's been more Republican governance than Democratic governance, arguably if you wanted to play that game. He wants to use government to impose his will. It does seem like it isn't quite kind of says it that way. And that's going to cause a backlash.
Well, he was asked a couple of days ago what he wanted to do as president. And he said he wanted to use the power of government to destroy leftism. And so he wants to use the various levers of government. He wants to use the power that he would have under Article two of the Constitution to try to extract wins against wokeism, against leftism, against Democrats, as opposed to reducing the size of government, getting government out of people's lives.
He wants to sort of push back against what he thinks is the left taking over culture and sort of using government to reclaim some of those culture wars. It seems like that's how he's going to try to use his power if he gets in. You know, Danny, we've talked about this. This is not the libertarian wing of the party he's appealing to.
This is a in many ways much different than the pitch Rand Paul made 10 years ago. Thank God for that. But this is the new Republican Party. And I think go to Disney, you know, for vacation.
They don't want it in their politics. Yeah, but the Florida economy is an unbelievable good news story. So he can talk about that as well. All right.
We'll talk about it next week. Look at this calendar of candidates announcing next week. You got Chris Christie on Tuesday and Mike Pence and Doug Burgum, the governor of North Dakota, Danny, just so you know. The current governor of North Dakota, not a former.
Your former vice president, former governor of New Jersey. How many more candidates are going to go to the field and how happy is Donald Trump? If he was happy before, he must be even happier now. Well, he's got to be happy because this is what happened in 2016 and in 2015 when he got in and a number of other candidates got in.
They all split the vote and he rode the wave all the way to the nomination. He's hoping to be able to do the same. The fact that so many people are getting in is also an indictment and a way of Ron DeSantis. He has not cleared the field as the second person to take on Donald Trump.
That's the most important. And it's not clear if someone else will be able to emerge. I think all of these people who are announcing are going to see if they have some kind of bump and if they see if they can get on the debate stage and make a moment and maybe they'll be the person to take on Trump. It is fascinating to me with everybody split in the DeSantis vote in Iowa.
You and I were just discussing off camera. Trump can lose Iowa and still win the nomination. How do we know this? He did it once.
DeSantis can't lose Iowa. I mean, there is no. Once he starts winning, he can't stop winning. And all of the Pence is going to take a chunk of the social conservative vote.
So Tim Scott, I'm starting to wonder where does he get his coalition? Yeah, I think that's why he's spending time in every single county. He absolutely has to win. Not, of course, let's note that Trump says that he did win Iowa and just that he won.
But yeah, he has, I think, DeSantis has to do well. You get at the point that I'd like to make to a lot of Republicans. OK, if you defeat Trump, tell me the moment he concedes. All right, guys, I have to go.
Andy and Danny, thank you all. A quick update from the House floor just a few moments ago. The debt ceiling agreement cleared that key procedural hurdle. The bill will now head to the floor for a final vote, which is expected tonight.
A big Republican showing here, close to 190 votes. And later in the show, I'll be speaking with House Republican Bob Good of Virginia about why he says Kevin McCarthy's deal to avert default is no good and what it means for the future of that Republican conference and House leadership. Don't go anywhere. You're watching The Press Now.
Welcome back. What was once seen as a fringe movement, Christian nationalism, the idea that the United States should be a Christian nation, maybe gaining a foothold in our politics and in particular within the Republican Party. According to a recent PRRI poll, 10 percent of Americans view themselves as adherents of Christian nationalism. 90 percent of Americans said while they don't completely agree, they were sympathetic to the views of Christian nationalists.
Last week in an op-ed in The New York Times, Susan Stubsen, a member of the Wyoming Republican Party, warned about how Christian nationalism, quote, hijacked her state. She writes about a conference she attended and the impact this movement is having on the religious community, saying, quote, One pastor was recently fired. Another who was nearing the end of his career lamented, where did I go wrong in my teaching? Am I complicit in this movement?
Have I created this monster? I have failed my flock. Joining me now is the author of that op-ed, Susan Stubsen. Thanks for coming on the show.
Thank you. Good to be here. Let me start with what you write about here. And I guess sort of as you've been exploring this problem, what do you think the best way is to disaggregate Christianity and the Republican Party right now?
Well, an emphasis on the separation of church and state would be a good start. That, of course, is not to say that our faith should inform our decision making. I want my political leaders to rely on whatever moral hold that they have. So I think that there certainly is some wiggle room for the separation of church and state.
However, when the two faith and political are so commingled, many times you cannot tell the difference. That's a problem. So about three or four years ago, we did a special Meet the Press report special on the rise of Christian nationalism in these sort of Trump churches, if you will, where literally the, and you talk about this, how sermons have been merged. You're not sure, am I listening to a sermon or a stump speech?
And it was really prevalent in some places like Idaho and in Tennessee. But we were still calling it a fringe movement and still in there. Is it still fringe? And would you call it a fringe movement in Wyoming?
Well, you know, I can't say. I certainly can only speak from my personal experience. It's clear to me that the faith and political world are in many ways unrecognizable and so holy commingled that it makes for bad church and bad law. And I really saw this.
I think many of us did during the pandemic with the issue of masks. In a faith community, you would expect your fellow Christians to place yourself last. Rather, what we saw was more of a movement toward me first, my rights first. That was a sea change in the faith community.
I want to play something that Governor Ron DeSantis said to CPAC last year, because frankly, this quote suddenly rang very familiar to what you were warning about. Take a listen to what he said. I'm curious of your response. We're going to lead the charge here in Florida, but we need people all over the country to be willing to put on that full armor of God, to stand firm against the left schemes.
You'll be met with flaming arrows, but the shield of faith will stop them. You will emerge victorious. You probably know this. I did not.
I'm not an adherent to the New Testament, but in the New Testament, the line is actually put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. So in here, he just changed the words left and devil. That sounds like what you're warning about that happened in Wyoming. No question.
And frankly, I would extend that beyond the states or beyond the borders of my state. That's what I call the weaponization of the word. It's in many ways, particularly for a faith community, of which I'm a part of. It's kind of low hanging fruit.
You're speaking a language that we understand, translating it to a secular issue, secular policies. That's concerning. And it's fear driven. A lot of I have family that have had their churches so divided, they've left.
Are you seeing different? Are you now seeing congregations that are almost forming out of a reaction to the politicizing of the movement? Well, it's certainly been disorienting. I'll speak for myself and many of my friends.
You know, this is personal. These are your faith is the most personal thing that you have when you find your community reflecting fundamental principles that you don't believe in. You bet there's been an exodus. I've seen the same thing, frankly, in the Republican Party.
So many friends say, oh, this is these are this is not the Republican Party that I understand. This is not a reflection of those fundamental Republican values. I see it in both communities. What are you going to do as a voter?
I mean, I say this and I you know, it's none of my business, but you seem like somebody, you know, I think you're personally conservative. It sounds like you'd like a right of center choice here. It doesn't sound like you're happy with what choices you're going to end up having in Wyoming. Right.
Well, I would certainly and I will continue to encourage my party to decide what it wants to be, whether we're OK with disenfranchising a large segment of the population or being OK with like minded people who dissent civilly and respectfully. Yeah. Disagreeing without being disagreeable. It seems you think that the first place you teach that is a church.
How noble, right? Yeah. Especially a church. You would think that would be the place that it would be easiest to sell that message.
Susan Subson, it was a remarkable op ed and I encourage folks to please check it out for themselves. Thank you for coming. After the break, Republican Congressman Bob Good joins me on set with the latest developments on that debt ceiling bill. We'll be right back.
Welcome back. As we mentioned, the debt ceiling agreement struck between President Biden and House Speaker McCarthy is heading to the House floor tonight for a final vote after it cleared the key procedural hurdle earlier this hour that votes on the rule that involves that goes into this vote. The vote comes as McCarthy is facing some vocal opposition from within his own party over the deal. Joining me on set is one of those vocal critics of this deal, Virginia Republican Bob Good, a member of the House Freedom Caucus.
Congressman Good, thanks for coming over. Great to be with you, Chris. Let me start with what we just saw there. A lot of look like I think only 30 no votes on the rule.
I'm reading that as, oh, that doesn't look like there's going to be as large an opposition. You're telling me, hold on there, that this vote won't be that the no vote on I was not part of those negotiations or discussions directly because I did not vote for the Speaker. Should Speaker McCarthy take a threat of a motion to vacate seriously right now or not? Well, no one's talking about that except reporters who asked me about that, quite frankly.
What we are talking about is trying to expose the bill, what we think is wrong with the bill, why we think it's a bad piece of legislation, how to get our fiscal house in order, how to cut spending. If we lose this vote tonight, this bill passes, or even if it does, we're going to turn to the appropriations process, try to cut spending in the appropriations bills this summer and this fall. We've got to make meaningful change on the fiscal side of this. Was it just reported Ken Buck floated the motion to vacate?
Well, I didn't hear Ken say that. I've heard reports that Ken said that on a phone call. I was on that phone call. I missed part of it because I was traveling, but I did not hear him say that.
How do you not look at this and say you won? And I say this, you know, Democrats didn't want to negotiate. Joe Biden said no. They were sold.
They did not believe Republicans could unite on an agreement. They did. They called the bluff. They got this.
This is divided government. This is probably as good as you could have done. How do you not see this as a win? Well, number one is what's best for the country.
We ought to be patriotically working towards what's best for the country. And I realize we have different views of the country, different visions. Incrementalism is certainly the only way we could accomplish anything. The bottom line, this is an unconditional, unlimited increase to the debt ceiling for two years.
And that is bad for the country. It's bad for us fiscally. It's not addressing one of our most important threats, our most major threats to the country, number one. Number two, we were winning before this bill.
The polls were showing that 20 percent of the country agreed with the Biden position of just raise the debt ceiling unconditionally. We won the political argument. We showed up. 60 percent said only raise it if you cut spending.
20 percent said don't raise it at all. So you had 80 percent who were some semblance of the Republican position. We had a strong position, a strong hand with the Limit Save Grow bill. Lots of tremendous reforms and significant cuts in there would have taken a big step towards putting us on a path towards fiscal solvency.
We forfeited all that leverage. We forfeited all that power in almost none of that ultimately got in the final product. When we have the House majority, we should have been able to force some of that into this bill. If there's a Republican president in 2025 and if there is, you're going to raise the debt limit unconditionally or do you think the debt limit, even with a Republican president, should have spending cut conditions?
When I first ran in 2019 to start the 2020 race and over the last three years, I have never said I would not vote for a debt ceiling. What I said I would do or increase, what I said was I would not do it without commensurate cuts and reforms that would put us on a path towards fiscal solvency. No matter who the president of the United States is. Absolutely.
And a lot of Republicans, I'll remind you, during the Trump presidency, where we did not do a good job on spending, I said many times Republicans are complicit in this problem. Yes, Democrats are better at spending than Republicans are. We at least feel bad about it. We at least talk about trying to address it.
Not consistently like we should. But in the Trump presidency, when that debt ceiling was raised, it was raised with Democrat votes primarily. Most Republicans in the House today have never voted for a debt ceiling until some are going to vote for tonight. All right, Bob Good, Republican from Fifth District, Virginia.
Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Chuck. That's okay. I have too many first names.
That's okay. Still to come, we're live outside the courthouse in Pittsburgh, where prosecutors are pursuing the death penalty for the mass shooter behind the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in American history. You're watching Meet the Press now. Welcome back.
It's been more than four years after the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in U.S. history. The federal trial of the man who killed 11 people at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh is underway. In the first two days of testimony, the jury heard from first responders and survivors of the attack who recounted the harrowing details of what happened.
Let's get to our NBC News correspondent, Kathy Park, with the latest on the trial from Pittsburgh. Kathy, it's fascinating here, the debate over whether he should get the death penalty. I'm curious, what are you hearing outside the courtroom as well as inside the courtroom? Yeah, Chuck, good to be with you.
Well, court just wrapped up on day two and another difficult and emotional day of testimony. Earlier this morning, the testimony from Carol Black, 71 years old, really stood out to me because she lost her brother in this massacre. But she also talked about losing a close friend. She actually saw her friend Mel Wax.
He was peering outside of the sanctuary when she saw him just drop and knew that he died. He was gunned down by the defendant. And she said that the toughest part for her was actually being escorted out of the synagogue and having to walk over the body of her friend and just his pool of blood. And she quietly said goodbye to him.
And Chuck, this comes after day one of opening statements and just harrowing 911 calls. We heard from Bernice Simon. She was one of the first victims to call and about this active shooter. And she said her husband was bleeding out next to her.
And the dispatcher was trying to guide her through exactly, you know, how to save her husband. And there was a point when the phone goes silent. You hear screams and gunfire. And unfortunately, she was also among the dead.
And then we also heard from the rabbi of the Tree of Life synagogue. And he was hiding inside a bathroom at the time. And he also called 911. And there was a point where the phone also goes silent.
And the attorney yesterday when he was on the stand asked the rabbi, what were you doing at that time? What were you thinking? He said, I was praying because I was prepared to die. So those are some of those chilling details that we heard in the courtroom the past two days.
And there were some family members of some of the victims who were also in the courtroom. So it was definitely an emotional day as well. Chuck, we should note that this is the guilt part of the trial. This is part one.
And then sentencing comes in the next couple of weeks. It's supposed to last six weeks. So this is going to be a lengthy process. Absolutely.
Kathy Park in Pittsburgh for us. Kathy, tough story to cover. Appreciate you doing it. And thank you all for being with us this hour.
I'll be back tomorrow morning with you. The news continues, of course, with Ali Jackson right now. It's here. The Ford is a big deal.
Not yet. The Ford is a big deal. Oh, guys, just wait. The Ford is a big deal event is on.
Really? Now. Hurry and lease a 2026 Maverick XLT Hybrid all-wheel drive for $197 biweekly at 5.29% APR for 60 months with $2,995 down. That's like $99 a week.
The Ford is a big deal event. Visit your Ontario Ford store or Ford.ca.