Meet the Press NOW — May 8

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To put AI to work for people, visit ServiceNow.com if it's Thursday. Habemus pop em. An election like no other results in a pope like no other. We're following the historic election of the church's first ever American pope, Pope Leo xiv, as Catholics and spectators around the world celebrate the beginning of a new era.

Plus what we know about the US UK Trade deal that's still being negotiated as President Trump signals a new willingness to negotiate with China and potentially de escalate global trade tensions. And a judge temporarily blocks the Trump administration from using a military aircraft to deport migrants in the US To Libya as the courts and the administration clash over the president's sweeping immigration crackdown. Welcome to MEET the press Now. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington.

We begin with the incredible and momentous scenes today at the Vatican and the election of a new pope, a cardinal from the United States, now the first American born pope. This was the moment as the white smoke billowed out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, crowds that gathered in St. Peter's Square erupted in cheers at the sign with the 133 cardinal electors chose a new leader of the Roman Catholic Church. As bells from the basilica rang out.

Listen to that crowd. The pop continued as colored guards and marching bands made their way through St. Peter's Square and the excited crowds before assembling in front of the basilica. Several moments later, the senior cardinal deacon appeared on St Peter's balcony declaring habeas papa, which means we have a pope in Latin, and announcing to the world who the cardinals elected and the name he will take as pope.

And then came the moment millions of people had been waiting for. The first appearance of Pope Leo XIV before the entire world. Waving to the thousands of people gathered in the square before delivering his first remarks as pope, speaking in Italian and Spanish, emphasizing the need to be a church that builds bridges and is open to receive everyone. One among the thousands gathered in St.

Peter's Square were several Americans who were just ecstatic about the nudes of an American pope. First of all, just as a Catholic, to have a new Holy Father, that's exciting enough, but then to find out that he's a Chicagoan as well, I could not believe it. It's. That was something we were always told could never happen.

There could never be an American Pope. My phone is just beeping Constantly right now from home saying American Pope, American Pope. It's exciting. Proud.

It's very proud. I mean, to us, this historic moment all happening on day two of the conclave. The official news agency of the Vatican says the cardinals elected the Pope on the fourth ballot after two inconclusive votes earlier this morning. Joining now is NBC's Claudia Lavagna at the Vatican.

Adrian Brodis is in Chicago. Also with me is Joe Donnelly, former U.S. senator to Indiana and former U.S. ambassador to the Holy See.

And Father Hagen, a friend of Poplio and an Augustinian prior provincial. Thanks to all of you for being here. Claudio, let me start with you. Take us to that historic moment when a new Pope was announced.

Well, Christian, this was only three hours ago and there are still people here, you probably can see them behind, behind me because they're still taking in this historic moment. It was a shocking moment, probably because not many people up to three hours ago expected or thought it was possible that an American will become Pope simply because of the concentration of power. But in a way, as the Italian media is saying right now, Prevost is the least American of the American cardinals in the sense that yes, he was born in Chicago in 1955, but in the end he spent 2/3 of his life outside of the United States. He went as a 30 year old as a missionary to Peru.

He spent many years there. Then he was called back to Ro by Pope Francis who made him a cardinal only a little over two years ago. So very fresh even there. He called him back to Rome to assign him to lead the office that appoints bishops around the world.

So he's both a missionary, so he's a pastor. That goes to the periphery, something that Pope Francis really cared about. At the same time, he also knows the ins and outs of the Catholic, the Church's governance here. And also he knows the cardinals and the bishops around the world as he was in charge of appointing the bishops.

And that could have helped him perhaps because 80% of the Cardinals who took part in this conclave were new to the conclave. They were appointed by Pope Francis and also they were new to each other. They didn't really know each other because they come from all over the world. And perhaps Prevost was the only one of, one of very few they actually knew and trusted and this could have helped him.

And clearly this vote went very fast. It was only the fourth vote, as you mentioned, something that also we didn't expect because of that, because the cardinals didn't know each other very well. Clearly, clearly private Now, Pope Leo XIV had already the trust of all of them. So we are looking forward to see what Leo will do in the coming days.

Certainly, there is no doubt the world will be watching. Claudio, what did his first words that he spoke from the balcony there tell us about what type of pope he may be? He spoke about peace. First of all, he repeated the word peace many times.

He talked about a disarmed and disarming peace. He talked about building bridges. He talked about a church that is inclusive for everyone. And he spoke in three different languages, Latin, Italian, and Spanish.

Because this is also a very global pope. He speaks more languages than that. He speaks English, of course, Italian, Spanish, Latin, Portuguese, and even understands German. This makes him a pope that is truly global, that can talk to three quarters of the world's population, probably most of the Catholic population, more than 1.4 billion Catholics.

And that is very important because the church is globalized. The Church is global. And this truly is a global pope who was born in the United States, but he's truly global Christian. You know, it was so fascinating, Claudio, because from the time that we saw that white smoke, and obviously you heard the cheers start to erupt in St.

Peter's Square to the time that we actually met the new pope, it was about an hour. What happens in that time? Why is there that stretch of time before the world gets to actually see the new pope? Well, because the pope, of course, once he's asked whether he accepts the role, of course, as pope, and he says, I accept.

I accept in Latin for I accept. He's then taken to a sacristy behind the Sistine Chapel, where he's called. That's called the Room of Tears, because popes usually weep when they see the white cassock. Then he's being dressed as pope and then returns to the Sistine Chapel, where he takes the helmet of the cardinals and so forth.

So that process takes about an hour. And also this allows hundreds of thousands of people here in Rome to run to the Vatican. This is the scene that we've seen. This is my third Conclave, and this is the most moving moment of the time when I see people making a dash from everywhere.

They drop anything they're doing in Rome because they hear the bells from all over the city, and they come here to the Vatican to see, to witness this moment where the pope appears in the balcony. Crystal. The images are just breathtaking to watch. It was such a historic and momentous day.

Claudio, thank you for being there for us. Adrian, let's turn to you in Chicago. I am getting text messages from everyone I know, including some of my family who hails from Chicago. What is the scene there?

I know there's a lot of pride for folks there today. So much pride on display, Kristen. And the element of surprise has started to settle, and now there's just pure joy and excitement. When we pulled up to Holy Man Cathedral, which you see behind me, the bells are ringing.

Folks were gathering on the steps, just celebrating. We met a group of students from a nearby suburb who were here for a tour. They were inside the church when the news was announced, and it spread quickly, and they were overwhelmed with enthusiasm. We did speak to some of the students, including their parents.

Take a listen. I am very excited that he has some of the same values that, you know, Pope Francis did. I think, you know, it's really going to help open up Catholicism to all people in, you know, a more way of inclusion rather than exclusion. So, so much excitement.

Her son we also spoke with, who is 12 years old. He says he would love to be pope one day, but right now he's just taking in the moment of the new pope. And he says if he's not pope, at least he lived to see an American pope. And that is something he wants to tell his children and grandchildren.

Well, it's important to dream big and love hearing that reaction there from Chicago. Adrienne, thank you so much. Ambassador Donnelly, let me head over to you. What was your reaction to learning for the first time ever, an American Pope chosen?

It was just incredible because everybody's always said, well, an American can't be pope. And the trick for Pope Leo is that the word on him was, he's the least American of the Americans. What they meant by that was, you know, he was in South America, he was in other places, and he had a special gift in that, I think, in the conclave, you know, where people can get somewhat divided, whether you're conservative or progressive or this or that. I think both sides liked him, that they both sides were comfortable with him, whereas some of the other candidates, they might say, it's too this.

Much too. That way, both sides were comfortable with him, and that that helped to create a lot of momentum. He was the kind of candidate that you would say, if he wasn't an American, I think he would have been the clear front runner. And so, you know, that's why he spoke in Spanish and to his parish in Peru or his diocese in Peru.

I laughed. I was like, I think everybody's in Chicago waiting to hear you talk to them next. I was Wondering if English was going to follow. Probably not.

Yeah, we didn't get English today, but it was incredible to hear from him. Are you surprised that the cardinals were able to elect a pope on the fourth ballot, given there was a lot of discussion about how many cardinals were meeting for the first time in the fact that there were so many different languages being spoken in that Conclave for the first time? I think when we hear the history of this Conclave, we're going to hear that a lot of this was done before the Conclave ever started. And what I mean by that is they have that time between the funeral and the Conclave where they are having meals together and meeting together and talking and going to.

To different things. I think a lot of this was set in motion and put in place before the Conclave ever started, so that when they had the first vote. I may be wrong, but I think Pope Leo had a really strong position after the first vote as well. Well, we know that Pope Francis and President Trump did not see eye to eye on a lot of things.

President Trump is out celebrating this moment. He spoke about this moment, the fact that there is an American pope. What are you anticipating from this relationship that we will undoubtedly, at some point, President Trump will go to meet the new pope. What do you expect the relationship will be like?

Well, you can see Pope Leo is very comfortable in who he is and very confident. And so I think that he will bring his views to that relationship. He will have a spine of steel. And you could hear in his comments today that he has what's called the preferential option for the poor, that he stands up for those who are struggling.

And his other comments, that evil will not win. So he comes at this with a lot of the same views of Francis. I think he wants to have a terrific relationship with President Trump, and that'll sort itself out as we go through various issues. Well, Ambassador Donnelly, thank you so very much.

We really appreciate you being here on this historic day. Father Hagen, let me turn to you. You are actually friends with now Pope Leo. I cannot imagine what this day has been like for you.

You see the raw emotion there at the Vatican from all of the faithful who had gathered to celebrate this moment. What is in your heart today? Just incredible joy. I have to tell you, when he appeared on the balcony, it was if a family member had stepped up there.

And I mean that as a brother Augustinian, on behalf of all the Augustinians around the world, we know the kind of man that the world just got. And he is all that he is incredibly bright. He's a peacemaker. He has a sense of humor.

He's welcoming and approachable. And so the man that we know, the man that has served the corps, the man who has traveled around the world doing God's work, we believe the cardinals were in that conclave, but we also believe it's driven by the Holy Spirit, that ultimately the decision is God's will. And so we believe that God had a major hand in what happened here. And we're just so happy that the world is going to have a Holy Father in Pope Leo, in the caliber person that he is.

What do you make of the name that he chose? What does it symbolize? What should people know about that? I think, you know, certainly embracing the people in the margins, a sensitivity for the poor.

You know, Pope Francis spoke a lot about the word citality and to listen. I think what we have here in Pope Leo is someone who is willing to listen to all voices, to voices of the poor, to voices that maybe are not always heard and is a real collaborator and unifier. And so I think in the namepleo, you know, that carries on a kind of legacy tradition. And what can you tell us about his work in Peru and beyond and how that might shape his papacy?

What you have seen so far in the work, you can imagine there are. There are towns and cities in Peru that are poor. They don't have a lot of resources. I think we celebrate, particularly in our country, we celebrate the value of independence, right?

We celebrate our independence. I think we can also celebrate our dependence. We certainly found that in Covid, the need that we all have for one another, the need that we have to defer to our higher power, the need and call that we have to help one another. And I think when you work in communities where they don't have a lot, you understand that value, that that's.

That's incumbent upon us to serve one another. And I think that was indelibly marked on his heart and his soul and in his work. And I think that Pope Francis recognized that when he chose to make him cardinal in the first place. And so I think we can expect that sensitivity to those who are struggling on the margins to continue with the final minute, that we have a lot of challenges facing the Catholic Church right now.

How do you think he will approach those challenges, Father? Well, you know, as we know, God gave him incredible intellect, and so he has a capacity for a depth of critical thinking. But I also think that he's not condescending. And so while he's Right.

I think he's also going to, as we said, listen to the collective wisdom that comes from the flock, from the faithful and from, you know, his council, the people that he will look to to help him lead. And so I think you're going to have somebody that is going to be a collaborator and really to, you know, really lean on the collective wisdom on the shoulders of the people that he stands, but with the courage to now go forward and really strive to do what God may be asking him to do with the, you know, the balance of his life. Father Robert Hagan, thank you so much for joining us, for bringing us your very personal perspective on this monumental day. We really appreciate your joining us.

Thank you, Chris. Coming up, the Trump administration is close to sealing its first major trade deal with the top US Allies. It's announcing sweeping tariffs on dozens of nations. We have the details on the UK Agreement and what it means for negotiations with China.

Don't go anywhere. You're watching the press now. Welcome back. Today, the White House announced the first tentative trade deal since President Trump shook global markets with sweeping tariffs on major allies and rivals.

The president outlined a new trade framework with the United Kingdom. He also hinted at a fresh openness to talks with China. From the Oval Office this morning, the president called the deal a great day for both countries. I think it will be a great deal for both countries because it'll be really great for the UK Also.

So they're opening up the country. Their country's a little closed and we appreciate that. They'll also be fast tracking American goods through their customs process. So our exports go to a very, very quick form of approval and there won't be any red tape.

Things are going to move very quickly both ways. The final details are being written up in the coming weeks. We'll have it all very conclusive, but the actual deal is a very conclusive one. Despite this, Commerce Secretary Howard glutnik says the UK will still face a 10% universal tariff.

So here's what we've got. We've opened up new market access, ethanol, beef, machinery, all the agricultural products. They've agreed to open their markets, and that will add $5 billion of opportunity to American exporters. So the question is, why would they do that now?

Because they've never done it before. And we still have a 10% tariff on which will produce $6 billion of revenue for the United States. On Wall street, stocks finishing the green buoy not only by news of the UK deal, but also Mr. Trump's potential willingness to lowering the 145% tariffs on China.

Listen, look at the d I mean, we're going to see right now you can't get any higher. It's 145. So we know it's coming down. I think we're going to have a very good relationship.

I expect to have a very good relationship with China. Scott. I think it's a very friendly meeting. They look forward to doing it in an elegant way.

China, as you know, has a tremendous trade surplus with us, so we can't just get half that. And but I think it's I think it's going to be very good for both countries. I would like to see China open. The comments come to Treasury Secretary Scott Besson and U.S.

trade Rep. Jamison Greer are prepared to meet with their Chinese counterparts this weekend in Switzerland. I'm joined now by me CB News senior White House correspondent Kelly o' Donnell and NBC News business and data correspondent Brian Chung. Thanks to both of you for being here today.

KELLY o' Let me start with you. Really notable to hear President Trump talk about China in the context of a potential willingness to soften some of those tariffs that he imposed, 145%. There's no doubt that the standoff with China is one of the biggest concerns for Wall Street. What are your sources telling you about that softening of his tone?

Well, what's so striking about that, Kristen, is only yesterday he was asked if he would be willing to lower that tariff rate as a way of sort of launching negotiations, which China flatly said no. He had said no previously, and yet today he sort of indicated that, well, of course, it would have to come down at some point because it's so high that is in a capsule, the uncertainty that the markets and other countries are dealing with, that the president says one thing with a lot of passion behind it on one day and then may adjust or as he likes to say, be flexible on another day. Clearly, what is heading into this weekend is important with China. Secretary Besson will be headed to Switzerland, where he will be meeting with Chinese counterparts.

And the president today said he expects those will be substantive conversations, so there is potential for some movement here. He also said that he'd be willing, depending on how the talks go, to have a phone conversation with President Xi of China at some point after that. Eventually they will, of course, talk. But the cadence of when they will talk and what the signals are are always a part of the tea leaf reading that goes along with this.

The White House certainly also wanted to have some kind of event that signaled progress on tariff negotiations. And today they had that with the specifics and it opened up to extend the conversation about China. So let me follow up with you, Kelly, about that. Exactly.

The president announcing a framework of a deal with the UK Based on your reporting. How close are the two sides to actually finalizing that deal? Well, again, that's the critical point here because they have this is like a save the date from the administration have introduced a new event to say we have a framework. There are very positive things here.

Stormer, the prime minister spoke about it. You had members of the cabinet who were present who talked about elements of the benefits regarding agriculture and the opportunity related to automobiles, that there is a reduction of tariff on automobiles and steel, but the 10% tariff remains in place. So the president indicated that there is more work to do to bring this to a formal agreement. But this gave them a flag to post in the ground to say progress has been made on negotiations.

United Kingdom is not certainly one of the big trading partners with the United States. So that's also a way of kind of gauging how this is an incremental step. Positive, the administration says, but still some work to do. Yeah.

And Kelly, I think it's such a smart way to describe it to save the date. Thank you so much for starting us off for your great reporting as always, Brian. John, let me head over to you. Start right there.

Helios says this is a save the date. How big of a deal is today's announcement? Wall street did finish in the green. Yeah, Wall street did like it, but I think it's not necessarily because of just the US And UK economics and what this deal means for them, but in the totality that this agreement does point to progress being made perhaps with other countries as well.

If you just don't know exactly what's going on with this particular trade deal. Yes, it is indeed the case that United Kingdom is a major advanced economy. Many people might be familiar with our relationship historically with this country, but in terms of trade itself, we have a trade surplus with the UK Which I think is worth mentioning here, as the administration has been oftentimes using the tariffs as a rhetorical tool to say we need to reduce our trade deficit with other countries. The UK buys a lot of stuff from the United States.

In fact, only four countries import more US Goods than the UK had according to the US Trade representatives data. So again, this is pretty impactful in terms of the overall tariff story. But in terms of just our relationship with the UK it's not like there are too many British made goods that Americans are buying on a daily basis that Americans will see in terms of a day to day wallet impact your prison. And Brian Howard Lutnick is saying that UK will still be subject to a 10% universal tariff.

So what exactly is in the deal for the uk? Yeah, this is a really important point here is that yes, the 10% tariff is still in effect, which is the reason why when the President had cried to describe this as a full and comprehensive deal. It's not necessarily the case. But look what the UK gets out of this deal are concessions like for example the ability to sell cars to the United states up to 100,000 cap at a 10% tariff instead of be 25% tariff at the rest of the world faces.

That's reason why Kierstar's images that you see on screen ahead of you made this announcement at a Jaguar Land Rover plant where this is pretty impactful. The ability to continue to export to the United States at a cheaper rate than the rest of the world will be paying. Another thing that's really important about this deal is that UK Steel will now be able to enter the United states at a 0% tariff as opposed to a 25% tariff. That is a big deal.

And also the UK does say that they're going to have reciprocal market access as the United States is going to be able to increase their exports of beef to the uk. The UK will also be able to in some cases ascend beef to the United States without tariffs as well. All right, Ryan, John, thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

Coming up next, former President Biden speaks out, denying reports that he suffered a cognitive decline while in office. As new polling shows President Trump's political standing could be fraying with key voters. Stay with us. The panels next.

You're watching me, the Press now. Hey guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit down podcast. On this week's episode, I sit down with one of the biggest bands in the world, Mumford and Sons, as we get the boys together to talk about their new number one album, Prize Fighter and the evolution of that irresistible foot stomping sound. You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts.

Welcome back. This week, March, six months since the 2024 election, and there are already signs that the political coalition that elected President Trump is showing signs of fraying. A new polling analysis from Carrie Dan the Cook Political Report shows a downturn in job approval for President Trump among young voters, Latino voters and independent voters. The three major groups Trump made Heavy gains on in November compared to his 2020 reelection bid.

Join me now to discuss all of this. On set is Audrey Fehlberg, politics reporter for National Review Fashion senior advisor to Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, and Brendan Buck, former advisor to House Speakers John Boehner and Paul Riot. He is also an NBC News little analyst. Thanks to all of you for being here.

Audrey, let me start with you. What do you make of the fact that this coalition that we saw in 2024 right now seems to be giving the President lower marks in terms of job approval, in terms of his handling of the economy? What does that mean moving forward to the president? Yeah, I think it's not particularly surprising.

There is a bit of confusion, uncertainty surrounding the Trump terrorist. I think that it is a good move for Republican that Donald Trump announced a deal with the UK today. We'll wait to see what some of the details are in the coming days, of course, but there is uncertainty about this. You know, a lot of working class Americans do kind of want this big shake up in the American, the American trade system with the world, but, you know, they're worried about how it's gonna affect their pocketbooks.

That said, you know, Democrats may be excited about this, you know, shrinking approval rating for Donald Trump, but they can't just wave a magic wand ahead of the midterms. You know, if we look at their approval ratings, the Democratic Party is still, you know, got these nightmare approval ratings and there's still a lot of disagreements over how the Democratic Party can change its message ahead of 2026 terms. It's such an important point. We already get to Democrats in one second.

Brendan, let me turn to you. For Republicans looking at these poll numbers, this coalition, I mean, on election night we were looking at this and saying this has really reset the political map in some ways. What do you make of the shifts that we are seeing? What are the potential locations?

It wasn't just that he did well that election. We had seen a consistent shift going back from 2016. Each time Donald Trump Rain was doing better, better. We thought perhaps he's out of now.

We shouldn't just assume that Bishop is too poorly right now. That's how it's always going to be. But of course that shit is happening right now. He has spent the first hundred days terrorizing, frankly, a lot of immigrant communities.

So I think we have learned at this point that Hispanic, Latino voters don't just care about immigration policy, but at the same time, when you have an immigration policy that is so extreme and frankly scaring a lot of people. Of course you're going to see some slippage because there are people in this country who I think are afraid that that is not surprising at all. Of course, independents care about the economy and there's no question that he's rid of the economy. Fascinate economy is always the number one issue when you look back at the Biden administration, and he's obviously higher at this point than Trump is.

But it started to turn for President Biden around the Afghanistan withdrawal and around inflation, also hitting around the same period of time. And I think the setting in with the American public was that you don't seem competent. The administration's getting fired. No strong hands at the wheel.

The incompetence has set in early around Trump and Musk and Doge. And I think you see that in the numbers that are falling with people like, okay, you should act, but you seem to act incompetently. It's so interesting, that idea of whether an administration is actually competent. And it does.

Take me to my next question, which is about this interview that President Biden gave to the View, his first interview to an American TV outlet. And he was pressed on that historic moment, if you will, on the View when Kamala Harris was asked, what would you do differently than President Biden? She wasn't ready with an answer. He was pressed on that moment today.

Take a look. First of all, I did not advise her to say that. Number two, I think it was, I think she was talking about she wouldn't have changed the successes we had. Not opposed to that.

We wouldn't change anything at all. She has to be her own and she was. Audrey. There was this sense throughout the course of the campaign that Vice President Harris hadn't extracted herself enough from President Biden, from the parts of his legacy that gave voters the sense that he was incompetent.

Exactly. In particular on the economy. She wasn't seen as having any different sort of message that he had on other issues like immigration that were winning issues for Republicans this time around, obviously. So I think this kind of leads to what's next.

You know, Harris, we're all waiting to see whether she's governor, California or spoilers are happening in 2028. But beyond that, I mean, this raises the question, what is Democrat, Democrats message going to be? Is going to be reflexively anti Trump on every single thing that the president does. Are they going to specifically on immigration like you mentioned, or the economy, which I think is probably the smartest tact for them to take in the uncertainty surrounding the terrorists what do you make of that?

I mean, it seems like there's still a lot of confusion about what the messaging should look like from certain parts of the Democratic Party. Yeah. It's not from. Yeah.

So I do want to get to as a part of this, the truth of wealth and power in society and the fact that when we talk about Musk and Trump, what are they doing? Well, they have the agenda of elites that are decimated. So security decimating our federal parks, decimating veterans clinics unnecessarily. If you can frame that up for American people and then counter it with honesty, integrity from a Democratic Party that you believe would fight for those same government services, I think you got a winning shot.

But obviously a lot depends on can you make a compelling message and say on that. Yeah. Brendan, what do you make of what we heard from President Biden? Not just that.

Soundbite but he's also defending his mental competence. He's saying there was never a decline. He says that was basically overstated. He says he dropped out to unify the party because he felt like Democrats had just become too divided.

Yeah. Well, it's just a broken brain off the other. One thing Democrats need to do, acknowledge that the president did have declined and the Democratic Party did a very poor job of acknowledging the reality that every single American saw. I think, sadly, again on the View today, we saw a person who is not very sharp at this point and he's an older man and maybe that's to be expected.

He clearly cares about his legacy and that's obviously what this is all about. He's getting hammered even from his own party. A lot of people criticizing him. And Bill feels need to get out there.

Of course, there's a book coming out and there's a book coming out that's supposed to look at what happened behind the scenes about like I would say, the COVID up of his mental decline. And he obviously cares about that and trying to be dedicated. I don't know if he did himself any favors today. That's obviously what he's trying to do.

In fact, is he doing Democrats any favors? VICE VERSION what's the reaction? Because as you say, Senator Bernie Sanders, Congressman and Alexandra Casio Cortez, they're out there, they're talking about, as you say, oligarchy. They have a very clear message.

Other Democrats are getting their message out in different ways. Gretchen Whitman, for example, Joshua Pierre. But does it help to have President Biden come out in this moment politically? Probably not.

Right. I don't mind him speaking. I mean, go out there. I want everybody to speak on Trump doesn't say his psi, but as Democrats, you should feel free to disagree with him as well.

When you say, oh, you know, was it a good idea that you dropped out late in race? The reflection on that is obviously, no. You should have dropped out way early. You're gonna drop out late in the game and then upon reflection say, well, no regrets.

I'm like, no, obviously there should be massive regret. We should have had a competitive primary. So those kinds of things. If he wants to enter into the rena know that you're inviting disagreement in the debate and democracy not be like cowering about having a disagreement in a debate.

Audrey, in his public appearances, the president hasn't really addressed that piece of the criticism. Why did he wait so late to get out? What are you hearing from sources about the reaction to these media appearances so far? Obviously he was on the View.

He's also done the BBC, which was a notable choice. It seemed like a clear attempt to speak to the international audience, particularly given the fact that he stood by Ukraine in a very different way that we're seeing from Trump administration. I think Democrats are nervous about this because of their intraparty battles over strategic change, also generational change. And I think a lot of people are kind of hoping he'll retire from the spotlight.

But Republicans are welcoming this and the Trump administration are some news reporting this week that they're trying to release audio of the her reward. And he of course, you know, investigated President Biden's handling classified documents, did not charge him, but said that he came across as a well meaning elderly old man with, with, you know, memory issues. So Republicans are going to continue to capitalize on this. Donald Trump talks about Joe Biden all time these days.

So it should surprise you that he's excited that Joe Biden's out there. Yeah. When I interviewed President Trump, he continued to go back to President Biden. There's no doubt about that.

Thank you guys. Great conversation. Really appreciate it. Audrey, Faz and Brendan.

Coming back to the break, Chief Justice John Roberts appears to check President Trump on the issue of checks and balances. As Trump lashes out the question I'll talk to a House Democrat who knows a thing or two about the rule of law. Next, watching the press announcements. Welcome back.

In some rare on camera comments last night, Chief Justice John Roberts defended the independence of the federal judiciary, which has been under attack from President Trump and his allies in Congress. The question he was answering was actually not about President Trump, but take a listen to what the Chief justice said last night in Buffalo, in our Constitution, judges, the judiciary is a co equal branch of government separate from the others, with the authority to interpret the Constitution as law and strike down obviously acts of Congress or acts of the president. And that innovation doesn't work if it's not. The judiciary is not independent.

Joining me now is New York Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman. He is a member of the House Judiciary Committee and is a former federal prosecutor. Congressman, thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me, Kristen. Well, you just heard those comments from the chief justice and I wonder what you make of them. He did not mention President Trump specifically, but we know that he has spoken out about attacks against the judiciary in the past. So what do you make of what we heard from the chief Justice?

Oh, it's a clear message to Donald Trump and the congressional Republicans who are attacking judges, including Trump appointed judges as well as other Republican appointed judges for ruling against them. Literally, that's what they've done wrong and they're going after them, threatening impeachment. And the Chief justice recognizes that the credibility of the court is under attack. It has been under attack because of egregious ethics violations over the past several years and, and its ratings, its poll numbers are as low as they've ever been.

But now it's getting attacked from the president who has appointed a number of these judges just simply because he doesn't like the law. And the point that he made is so vital that the judiciary, not the executive branch, not Congress, is the branch that the Constitution assigns the obligation and requirement to interpret and rule on the law. Donald Trump may have a view, but he does not get to decide. He does not get to decide that the Alien Enemies act applies.

A court decides that. And he does not get to do anything without following the Constitution and due process. I want to ask you about some comments that President Trump said to me during our interview this past week. He told me he wasn't sure whether every person in the United States is entitled to due process.

And then he posted this on Truth Social in recent days, quote, our court system is not letting me do the job I was elected to do actively. Judges must let the Trump administration deport murderers and other criminals who have come into our country illegally without delay. How do you read that, Congressman? Is there anything that Congress can do in this moment as we're witnessing this clash, quite frankly, between the Trump administration and the courts?

Well, first of all, the fact that he says he doesn't know whether he has to follow the Constitution and He doesn't know whether he needs to follow due process is a complete violation of his oath of office to properly follow the Constitution and enforce the laws. You can't just punt this onto your lawyers, just like you can't punt a military decision onto your generals. It's his obligation. He can get advice from his lawyers, but it's his decision.

So that is passing the buck in sort of an embarrassing and weak way. But the broader point that you are raising is that it doesn't matter what he said when he was campaigning. He doesn't know why he was elected. And it doesn't even matter because every president is elected.

You still have to follow the law. You still have to follow the Constitution. And you don't just get to say, well, this law doesn't apply or due process doesn't apply over here because, oh, there might be an administrative burden or, oh, these are bad people, so they need to be deported. That may be true, but there's a process for it and you have to follow the process.

And it doesn't matter whether you are elected to do anything or you campaign on anything. You still have to follow the law. I actually had a conversation with a Trump ally, Byron Donalds, your Republican colleague there in the House, about due process. And here's what he had to say.

When it comes to due process, that is a privilege reserved for American citizens. When people are in our country illegally, there is a semblance of due process, but not nearly the level of the United States citizen of an American. There are two different standards. You come to America, you are a guest in the United States states.

That privilege can be revoked. And a lot of these illegal aliens were not. Yes, they shut up at the sudden border. Joe Biden abused our laws, ignored our laws and let them in.

And yet what are the American people supposed to say about that? So, Congressman, the argument there being that if you have crossed the border, if you're undocumented, you've already broken a law, therefore you're not entitled to due process. Does he have a point? How do you respond to that argument?

Well, I appreciate his effort to support the president who has endorsed him for governor, but that's again, not what the Supreme Court has said. And the Supreme Court has the final say over how the Constitution is interpreted. And the Supreme Court has made it clear over and over and over that including in a recent 9 nothing decision in the Kilmarno Grego Garcia case, that every person, regardless of citizenship or whether they're here legally or illegally, has due process rights. Now, he is correct that there are different standards and levels of due process depending on what the proceeding is.

If you are in an immigration proceeding, you don't have the full same constitutional rights that you would in a criminal trial, but you still have to have a notice and opportunity to be heard. And the one thing in person that nobody seems to be talking about is that if you seek asylum in this country, you are here lawfully. That is a legal pathway to come into the United States. We in a bipartisan way passed those laws because Jews were not allowed to come into the United States during and after World War II.

And our Congress and our government made the decision that that was unacceptable and we're not going to allow that to happen again. So they're not talking about whether any of these people who do not have legal citizenship or legal permanent residency, and by the way, many of them do, but we're not talking about whether they applied for asylum, which is a lawful pathway. So they need to go to a court and a judge needs to decide it. They may be right, they may be wr, but it's not their decision.

Congressman, with this final minute that we have left, can I get your reaction to the fact that former President Biden has started to conduct interviews first with the BBC today with the View, defending his decision to step down, saying, look, it was a hard decision, saying there was no mental decline, that he dropped out of the race to unify the Democratic Party Democrats still in the process of trying to rebuild after those losses in 2024. Is this helping the Democratic Party move forward? Well, look, I am a great admirer of President Biden. I think he will ultimately go down as one of the most consequential presidents because of all of the legislation he was able to pass in his first two years and the incredible work he did on the international stage on his second two years?

The problem with his legislation and his successes is that there were not immediate results. They were longer term, very, very important legislative victories, but they didn't come to fruition in time for him to get benefit of it. As we go forward and as the infrastructure law is implemented, as we hope the American energy credits in the Inflation Reduction act are implemented, as some of the other seminal legislation is actually implemented, Americans are going to benefit from it. You can be sure that Donald Trump will take full credit for it.

But it was Joe Biden's vision and his desire to do the right thing rather than the politically expedient thing that ultimately I think sacrificed some of his favorability. All right, Congressman Goldman, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

So come the Trump administration's immigration crackdown faces a new legal setback after a judge blocked the government from sending deportation flights to Libya. That reporting is next. You're watching MEET THE PRESS now. Welcome back.

We're learning new details about the Trump administration's plans to deport migrants to Libya, a country grappling with instability and serious human rights concerns. Yesterday, a federal judge granted an emergency restraining order preventing migrants from being deported to Libya or any third country without due process. According to the emergency motion filed by immigration advocates, the administration was preparing to deport migrants from the Philippines, Vietnam and Laos to the North American African nation. During a Cabinet meeting last month, Secretary Rubio said the US Was actively searching for countries to accept migrants.

When asked about yesterday, President Trump said he didn't know about plans to send migrants to Libya, instead deferring reporters to his Department of Homeland Security. Joining now to discuss this, NBC News senior national security correspondent Courtney qb. Courtney, thank so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

So what's the very latest here? Do we know about specific plans the administration has to deport migrants to Libya despite this court ruling trying to block it? So at this point, there still is an active plan for one military flight to take migrants to Libya. But the big question now, Kristen, is will it still go on as originally scheduled for some time as early as this week?

At this point, that does not seem to be the case exactly because of the court ruling that you just mentioned. I've been speaking to defense officials. We don't expect to move today. There's nothing on the books for tomorrow.

But again, this could happen quickly. Now, the military is really just the outlet that's going to take these migrants to Libya. They have no actual role in the detention of them and even securing them on that flight. In that case, it would be most likely ICE agents who would be taken care of.

And once they do get to Libya, the US Military will have no role in that either. They have no part of the negotiations either. But again, at this point, because of that court decision, it appears that it is on hold for now. And Courtney, there's also reporting about the administration eyeing the possibility of sending migrants to Rwanda.

What can you tell us about that? Yeah, so that one doesn't seem to be quite as cooked as the idea of sending them to Libya. It seems as if the administration is talking to a number of countries, but one is one that we are starting to hear about it because it's not really clear that the government of Rwanda is interested in. Frankly, that's the same case with Libya.

We heard from the provisional government in Libya yesterday and earlier this week saying, look, we don't have any kind of deal to do this. And then, in fact, the government under Haftar even said this would be a violation of our sovereignty to send people here. At this point, it doesn't appear that Rwanda has made any kind of deal like that. So it's not quite as far along.

But those are the only two countries we're talking about here. Of course, we've been talking about El Salvador for months. That is one that is already underway. But there are other nations that we're starting to hear about as well.

All right, according to tracking all of this, we really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Court, great to see you as always. We're back tomorrow with more meat press now, but the news continues with Hallie Jackson right now.

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