Meet the Press NOW — November 13

Welcome to the press. Now, I'm Kristen Welker. We begin with the breaking news that Republicans are now taking full control of Washington. As moments ago, President-elect Trump announced he has tapped a fierce loyalist and right-wing firebrand, Congressman Matt Gates, as his pick to run the Justice Department.

It all comes as the President-elect visited the White House and rallied Capitol Hill Republicans, and as MEC News can now project that Republicans will control the House of Representatives. It gives Mr. Trump and his party control of the White House and both chambers of Congress all of the levers of power in Washington. Once again, it will be a razor's in majority for Republicans in the House.

At this hour, they've won a bare majority of seats, 218 and just nine races still on call. But a Republican-controlled Congress will make it easier for President-elect Trump to advance his agenda for the next two years. The news of House control coming just hours after Senate Republicans elected South Dakota's John Thune as their new leader, succeeding longtime leader Mitch McConnell. Thune's first task confirming Donald Trump's cabinet, which he has vowed to do quickly.

Here are some of his first comments to reporters as the incoming majority leader this afternoon. Do you have any concerns about President-elect Trump's cabinet so far, and what advice do you give him when it comes to choosing the nominee who will pass Senate population? Well, as you know, the Senate has an advise and consent role in the Constitution, so we will do everything we can to process his knobs quickly, get them into all of their positions so they can begin to implement this agenda. And as we noted, the first task of that legislative and executive branch dominance will be confirming the president-elect's top officials, which now includes multiple picks that are prompting some backlash.

Just moments ago, Mr. Trump posted on his social media, the Florida Congressman Matt Gates will be his pick for Attorney General, and the transition team announced former Democratic Congressman Tulsi Gabbard as the president-elect's pick for Director of National Intelligence. Plus, late yesterday, they announced Fox News host and military veteran Pete Hagg's guest, his Secretary of Defense, that announcement surprising some Senate Republicans and even some of Mr. Trump's allies.

Who? He's the Fox News host. I don't know. So, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know anything about him. Okay. I think it's...

First of all, it's right. I didn't see it coming. I was surprised that I didn't hear his name to mention, but there's been several people's names that came out left. They'll do this.

This is where President Trump was really good about the people of life side. I'm just surprised. I'm not going to comment whether it's good that or indifferent. I'm just surprised because the names that I've heard for Secretary of Defense have not included.

Right. Yeah. Joining me now, NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Surgen, Kenton, Kennedy QB at the Pentagon. Thank you all for joining me, Julie.

Let's start with you and the news that Republicans now have control of the House. It is by a narrow margin, but break down what this means. Yeah, they have a narrow control of the House. All of the news has really been sucked up by this Gates pick, though.

And speaking of control of the House, Steve Scalise, who is in Republican leadership in the House, actually reacting to the Gates pick said, stop taking our guys. And it's because they have such a tight narrow margin. There are still several races on call, but you see on your screen, they're at that 218 number. Look, they've been operating with a four or five seat majority when Democrats were in the White House.

Now that Trump is there, they need every boat they can get to get his sweeping agenda across the finish line. Of course, Trump has not operated with the control of the House and said it on his side in his first term. So this is already going to be a step up for him. They're talking about things like, of course, getting rid of the debt limit or lowering that debt limit, changing the way our tax policy works, extending those tax cuts from 2017, overhauling the Southern border, immigration, and of course, all of these cabinet picks and people that Trump is floating, that Senate majority is going to be crucial to confirm all of those appointments, but certainly House leaders, thrilled Speaker Mike Johnson, going to continue to hold the gavel after that endorsement behind closed doors by President Elect Trump this morning.

Kristen. Well, Julie, let's talk about some of the picks that you just ran through. Kelsey Gabbard. Pete Hagg's gift.

Do you think that they are confirmable at this point? What's the buzz on the Hill right now? Well, I mean, I hope you don't forget me from saying this, Kristen, but the general vibe on the Hill right now is WTF. People are shocked at the news of Gates, especially I feel like I couldn't even get around to getting reaction on Tulsi Gabbard when the speak of Gates came down the pike senators.

Republican lawmakers, even one of them in a closed door meeting, said, Oh my God, when they saw the post from Donald Trump, several senators, I just ran into Lindsey Graham, for example, who kind of brushed me off and said he didn't speak to Trump yet. We'll see. He said if Gates is confirmable, if he's a good pick, Chuck Grassley, who's going to be the top Republican on the Judiciary Committee, working very closely with the next Attorney General, he really didn't have anything to say. He's still there for 30 seconds, just completely baffled when reporters told him about this.

Others, like Collins, Murkowski, those who are seen to deflect from whatever Trump tries to do, their press handler is basically pushing us aside, and it is because, look at who Gates is. He's currently under investigation by the House Ethics Committee for some of these personal misgivings that he's been a part of, some of the things that the federal government has investigated him on and later dropped charges on. He's still very much being investigated by the House Committee by partisan sentiment across the aisle is they really can't believe that Gates is the one who ended up with this top job and the question of if he's confirmable, well, you talk about all these things, this really is the biggest test between Senate Republicans and Trump and a test of their allyship to him too. It sure is, Julie.

It's well put. Ken, let me go to you now at DOJ. What has the reaction been from inside the Justice Department for the reasons that Julie just laid out so well, the fact that he's currently being investigated by the Ethics Committee of the House, and of course he is someone who has been a loyal Trump ally. He's also someone for example, clashed with Kevin McCarthy, really responsible, taking the charge and ousting him.

How are folks with the DOJ reacting to this? With shock and horror, Chris, and I have two different people texted me just the one word insane in reaction to this. And let's just be very clear about this. He's under investigation by the Ethics Committee now.

He had been under criminal investigation by the Justice Department. They announced earlier this year that they opted not to charge him in that case, but there are prosecutors working right now in the Justice Department who know a lot of facts about that investigation that the public does not know it was a sex trafficking investigation. And the second thing to point out is that members of the Trump administration testified to the January 6 committee that Matt Gates went to the White House and asked for a blanket pardon, presumably covering the allegations in that criminal investigation and other matters for some period of time. He didn't get that pardon.

But the other thing to say is that there are a few members of Congress who have attacked the Justice Department and the FBI in more aggressive and extreme language than Matt Gates. Every single time every director Chris Ray or Attorney General Merrick Garland came up to the Hill and appeared before the Judiciary Committee on which Mr. Gates sits, he would make a point of going after them and accusing them of unethical behavior and of saying that the Justice Department had been weaponized. And the idea that he would be going over there now to run it just strikes fear in the hearts of the civil servants who work over there.

I've been doing a lot of reporting on this and there is no plan for a mass exodus. People have their heads down there ready to fulfill the policies of a new Trump administration but this is a different matter. They revere the rule of law, they revere norms, and they are very nervous about a figure like this who is, as the New Yorker magazine put it in a profile a few months ago, an agent of chaos. Well, and speaking of which, obviously, President Trump campaigned on a promise to enact what he called retribution.

He said, I will be your retribution. He's talked about the quote unquote enemy from within in recent weeks. This is from Trump ally Steve Bannon, who just said to me in a brief phone interview, President Trump is going to hit the Justice Department with a blow torch and Matt Gates is that torch. What do you make of that in the context of the conversations that you're having inside DOJ?

Well, look, obviously, even before this appointment, Kristin, we were doing a lot of reporting about this question of Donald Trump's vow to use the Justice Department to go after his enemies. How would that work? How would the career civil servants inside the Justice Department react? And here's the thing.

It's going to be a lot harder than people think it is, even if Matt Gates eventually becomes the Attorney General because there's a thin layer of political appointees over the Justice Department. And then there are a lot of career civil servants who actually make things work and you can order them to open an investigation, but they have to have predication in order to get a search warrant from a judge, for example, or a subpoena. They can't just do that out of thin air. Even if they did, there's a court system in place.

There are checks and balances. There's a jury system. But one dark possibility that people have discussed is it wouldn't be terribly difficult for Attorney General to name a special counsel, which would then handpick their own FBI agents of a like-minded ilk and start investigating people. And even if it didn't go very far, you'd have to have people spending a lot of money on legal fees.

We saw this to a much lesser degree with the John Durham investigation, who spent, John Durham special counsel spent years investigating the Mueller investigation and the Russia investigation and brought a couple of cases that ended in acquittal and did a lot of investigating that never saw the light of day. And that's a lot of people, including CIA officers, that I know personally had to spend a lot of money on legal fees and had to sit for long interviews, and it's a very unpleasant thing to be under investigation about federal government. So there can be some impact here. But again, it's harder than people think to just simply use the Justice Department to prosecute your enemies.

Well, fascinating reporting and reaction, Ken, that you're getting. Let's head over to court and QB Pentagon correspondent court. Thanks so much for joining us on this incredibly busy day. So obviously another Trump pick that's raising eyebrows, Pete Haggseth, for Defense Secretary.

He is a Fox News host. He has served. Talk to me about the reaction that you're hearing inside the Defense Department. Surprise?

That seems to be that. That's the word of the day here. You have a nomination or a recommendation for DNI and then now with Matt Gates. But Pentagon officials, when this came out pretty late last night, were surprised.

Pete Haggseth was not one of the people whose name had been commonly spoken about as a possibility to come here and run the Pentagon. And the reality is, Kristen, he's not a classic candidate. So in recent years, we have seen several retired four-star generals, including the current Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, who've been nominated to the post. But this is the first time that we have had someone in recent memory who really doesn't have any experience running a large bureaucracy or really leading anything of this magnitude, this building, this Pentagon, the Department of Defense, has 1.3 million active duty service members, there's another million and a half guard, reserve, and DOD civilians.

And it's an $800 plus billion budget. This is an enormous bureaucracy. And it would come if in fact he is confirmed, his time as Secretary of Defense would come at an extremely fraught time in this world. He'd have to deal with the situation in the war in Ukraine and with Russia's continuing fighting there.

There's now North Korean troops that are assisting Russia in some way to fight against Ukraine. There's the ongoing conflicts with Israel and Lebanon, Lebanese Hezbollah, and in Gaza. Just today, we've gotten some information from the U.S. Central Command about a large mission, three-day long mission of U.S.

strikes against Houthis in Yemen. The U.S. has continued to come under attack by militia groups and Iranian-backed Shia militia groups in Iran and in Syria. There are a tremendous number of difficult issues, and I haven't even yet mentioned what will come up during President Donald Trump's term, and that is the year 2027 when the expectation is that the Chinese military will be prepared to invade Taiwan should they decide to do so.

This is an incredibly dangerous time for someone as Secretary of Defense and the reality is he's simply not the classic nominee. He is a Fox News media personality. He does have military experience, but he served in a relatively junior role in the National Guard. He did several deployments in Iraq, Afghanistan, and down to Guantanamo Bay and Cuba, but even those were in pretty junior roles as the most senior one being a captain.

He got out several years ago as a major, again, we don't have any indication of problems in his record. He has a number of awards, but he didn't really serve in a leadership role, and that's why people here are so surprised by this bit, Kristin. You know, he's been critical of some of the Pentagon's diversity initiative, which comports with some of your reporting that you anticipate there will be a turnover to some extent of the personnel at the Pentagon. Yeah, there are two big issues that people really have top of mind here today with Pete's head Seth running the Pentagon.

Number one is the diversity issues. He has been very outspoken about the fact that any leadership here, generals or admirals, who have amplified or really supported diversity issues in the military need to be fired. He had openly spoken about CQ Brown, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs as one of those. There's a pretty widespread belief here that if in fact he comes in, frankly, that Donald Trump would support the idea of firing a number of the senior military leaders here in the building and potentially around the world.

That's not the only one though, Kristin. Women in combat. There are a lot of people who are talking about that. They have spoken very openly about how he believes that women should not serve in combat roles.

He's called it a potential readiness issue. He says women simply cannot serve in these difficult roles. The reality is combat roles have been opened to women since 2016 and the basic facts here are women have not only been able to meet the standards for serving in those roles, but women have repeatedly exceeded over that time, meeting some of the most stringent and difficult physical standards and mental and emotional standards for those roles. Women have continued to do so, Kristin.

So the question is, what could he do? Could he change the policy? But even if he doesn't, there's a concern here among a number of officials I've spoken with, this could have a chilling effect on women who serve in uniform that they may simply see themselves as devalued if that's what their secretary of defense is saying about them. Well, as always, Courtney, you're reporting is just incredible.

Thank you so much for bringing so much of it to us on such a big news day. I really appreciate it. President Elect Trump made his first trip to the White House since his election night victory at the current president's invitation. Seated together, President Biden again today pledged a smooth transition of power.

We're forward to having, like we said, a smooth transition. We can't make sure you're accommodated, what you need. We're going to get a chance to talk to us on that today. Thank you.

Thank you very much. And politics is tough, and it's, in many cases, not a very nice world, but it is a nice world today. And I appreciate it very much. A transition that's so smooth, it'll be as smooth as you can get, and I very much appreciate it.

You're welcome. Just a remarkable sight there. Today's visit was in stark contrast to this time, four years ago, when then President Trump refused to abide by the tradition of hosting the President Elect and tried to overturn the election. Now, as we've said, Mr.

Trump will return to Washington fully backed by a Republican-controlled Senate and the Republican-controlled House. And on that breaking news that we've been reporting that President Elect Trump has chosen in Congress when Matt Gaetz to be his Attorney General, we are getting some of our first reaction to the news. Here's Senator Margot Rubio, Trump's pick for Secretary of State, talking to reporters just moments ago. Listen.

Senator Matt Gaetz was also nominated to be the Attorney General of the United States. Would you support that nomination? Well, I'll be involved in my own. I know Matt for a long time.

At one point in the years ago, when I was in the state legislature, he actually worked for me. And I was aspiring to be Speaker of the House. I've known him for a long time. And again, I think the President is entitled to his team, and he's made his appointments.

And so I like Matt a lot, I know him very well, and I'm confident that if the Senate confirms him, he would do a good job. And again, presidents are entitled to have the people that they want in these key positions. All right, joining me now is M.C. Garrett Hake.

He's covering the Trump transition. And New York Times Chief White House correspondent Peter Baker. He's also an M.B.C. News political analyst.

Thanks so much to both of you for joining me. Garrett, just remarkable to hear Senator Margot Rubio, who has, of course, been nominated for another major cabinet position to be weighing in on Matt Gaetz, to be nominated for Attorney General. Secretary of State, that position, of course, he talked about how honored he was to be nominated for that role. So take us inside where we all are in the reaction that you're hearing on the Hill.

Kristen, the reaction here was varying degrees of shock and stunned silence, eye rolls asking questions of if we were serious. That's from Republicans and Democrats when the news about Matt Gaetz was started to be made public up here. But I have to tell you, you're also starting to hear versions of what you heard from Marco Rubio there, the idea that the President is entitled to his team. That's coming from Senate Republicans who have such a large degree, rolled over for what Donald Trump has had to say about the Department of Justice, about the FBI, about the criminal prosecutions against him, that now opposing a Matt Gaetz nomination for the things that Gaetz has said about those same issues would put them in a very difficult territory with the President that they have chosen to support to the Hill and with his base, whom they've now sort of agreed with on this basic premise.

Now, Gaetz also has a personal history that might trick him up with lawmakers as feud with Kevin McCarthy, that ultimately left him in the party, getting tossed as speaker and the investigation into him that ended without charges filed, that he might somehow be involved in sex trafficking. Again, that was an investigation by the Justice Department that ended without charges filed, but the questions will certainly come up in the confirmation process. We are very early in this story, but I think it's pretty clear that at least where we stand right now, what will be the most contentious confirmation of the Donald Trump cabinet nominees that we know so far? Well, let me follow up with you on, excuse me, Garrett, that point, because the question is, can these picks get confirmed?

And give us your sense, because when this day started, based on our conversations and reporting, I've watched that you've been delivering, the sense is, look, Republicans want to confirm Trump's picks. They want to do it before the inauguration. That's what Senator Barrasso told me this weekend. But again, this raises a whole new question about whether that's possible and whether Matt Gaetz is confirmable.

Candidly, Kristin, I don't think it really changes that basic question. Donald Trump is daring, the Republican Senate, the Republican-controlled Senate, to stand up to him when they have given almost no reason to think that they will. And this is a Republican Senate that has catered to Donald Trump's way on basically every issue, and the idea that they're going to stand up to him now after he just won, what he and what they, for the last several days, have been describing as an overwhelming mandate. Now they're going to say that he's not entitled to the picks that he has chosen to make to fill out his cabinet.

I would be very surprised, but they're going to be put in a very difficult position of defending those choices and defending the conduct of some of these people who Donald Trump has picked. But again, he can afford to lose a couple of votes. There's some people who can walk on this and get somebody like Matt Gaetz is still confirmed. He only has to get to 50.

He's going to have 52, 53 votes to play with. You're going to see messy confirmation hearings and a lot of Republicans put in very difficult places if they want to stand up to this president or if they're going to continue on the road of enabling him on all of these issues, including and especially on his handling and how he talks about the justice system. Well, Peter Baker picked up on that point because you have covered your fair share of transitions. We are certainly witnessing an extraordinary one.

What do you make of the developments of the day, including the fact that Republicans now have control of the House of Representatives and therefore all three branches of government in Washington? Yeah, they have control of the House of Representatives at least until Trump keeps taking away their members, right? This is the third House member. He's just plucked away for his administration, meaning it's very conceivable that the Republicans won't be able to muster a manageable majority, at least at first until special elections replace some of these people.

It's a very tenuous situation for them. It will certainly delay any major legislation that has to get through in the early days because they won't have the authority to operate in the same way if they have even the marginal majority seem to have won the election. But in any case, I think broadly speaking, all these years says are correct about Matt Gaetz. I mean, look, if you took a secret ballot the way they did today on the leadership in the Senate Republican conference, there's no way on earth Matt Gaetz would be confirmed.

He is not their cup of tea. It's hard to exaggerate. Just how out of the mainstream, even for the Republican party today, Matt Gaetz really is. He would never have passed a vet or attorney general in any administration we've seen in our lifetime.

I'm not sure he would pass the vet to get an assistant US attorney prosecutor job in the Justice Department. We've seen in our lifetime. But he is the President's choice. He is daring, as he said.

He is daring the Senate Republicans to prove their loyalty to him. And he's sending a signal. I think they said that people were asking how far would Trump go in this idea of retribution in this second term or will he back off and try to focus on his policy priorities? I think he just told us.

Like somebody who is an avowed critic of the Justice Department system as it has worked, who has a bit of target of it, who has his own therefore strong feelings about how it's worked and how it ought to be used against the President's enemy. So I think that anybody thought that maybe the President wasn't going to follow through on some of his threats to go after his adversary. I think he's given them a response today. It's such an important point.

Peter, talk about this moment, the significance of President-elect Trump going to the White House, the optics of that, the fact that you have both leader sitting there saying, yes, this will be a smooth transition. Despite the fact that, of course, four years ago, it was not a smooth, it was not a peaceful transition. Yeah, here we are. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall?

Yes. I guess it wasn't a super candid conversation. These are two men who don't like each other. But it goes beyond that.

I mean, most incoming and outgoing presidents of different parties don't like each other. Either they just campaigned against each other or campaigned for their fellow members of a party. But this is an Obama Romney. This isn't like even Bush Gore.

I mean, President Biden has said that former President Trump is a threat to American democracy. As we see it, he has said all kinds of things about him, just as President-elect Trump has said about President Biden. He's in fact promised a special counsel to investigate President Biden once he takes office. So obviously, no love lost in this meeting.

A very kind of awkward civility. But President Biden was determined to demonstrate that whatever Trump does in terms of standards and norms, he, President Biden, is going to uphold the traditions and the protocols and the civility and niceties of the American system, he's going to demonstrate a model, even if that model is about to be rewritten by his successor. Garrett, let me just final point to you. Take us inside the Trump transition team right now.

What are folks saying to you? Here they are rolling out these picks by the President-elect, wasting no time really filling in the blanks of who he wants to serve in his cabinet. Yeah, look, I think this is a team of the chip on their shoulders. They were during the campaign.

They're now during the transition. They are trying to move at a very rapid pace. They're trying to show that they can be organized, that they can be on message, whatever else you might think of that message. And they want to show that they are going to act on the mandate that they believe that Donald Trump has.

You know, if personnel is policy, I think we're getting a very clear look at what's important to Donald Trump through some of these early picks that he's making, not just gates, but the immigration-related picks, Tulsi Gabbard at DNI. This is somebody who ran on burning down the system, and he's putting the team around him to do it when he gets back to Washington. All right. Well, great conversation.

Thank you both so much, Garrett and Peter Baker. We're going to have much more on the Republican and Democratic reaction to some of these picks by President Elect Trump on who will serve in his next administration. Coming up, someone who knows all too well the challenges and risks of serving the Trump administration and Ambassador John Bolton joins me next. Stay with us.

You're watching The Press Now. Welcome back. As we mentioned, President Elect Trump is moving quickly to staff up his second administration and cabinet positions. Among them are key positions to his national security team, including Fox News host Pete Haggskyft to serve as Secretary of Defense and John Ratcliffe to leave the CIA, who we've confirmed will face immediate global challenges.

At the White House briefing, my colleague Pierre Alexander asked National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan what the most urgent national security threat is today is the new administration prepares to take office. The competition with the People's Republic of China is going to be defining for what the world looks like over the course of the next 10, 20, and 30 years. Then there's the most immediate issue, which is Iran and its proxy groups continue to take actions that directly threaten Americans and American interests in the Middle East, and that has to be dealt with on an urgent basis. In between those two, you have an ongoing war of aggression by Russia against Ukraine representing a larger threat to European security and therefore global security.

Joining me now is Ambassador John Bolton, former National Security Advisor to Donald Trump in his first term. He's also served as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Ambassador Bolton. Thank you so much for being here on a big day.

It is a big day. It's a big day, but a big day. It's a big day. Let me get your reaction to this latest breaking news, the fact that President Elect Trump intends to nominate Matt Gaetz to run the Department of Justice.

What was your immediate reaction when you heard that? Well, it must be the worst nomination for a cabinet position in American history. I think this is something that falls well outside the scope of deference that should be given to a president in nominating members of a senior team. Gaetz is not only totally incompetent for this job, he doesn't have the character.

He is a person of moral turpitude and not withstanding how difficult it may be politically. This is a nomination the Republican Party should oppose. You're saying he's the worst. That's a pretty strong language.

The worst ever. Do you think the Republican Party will oppose him, though, even those who were saying that they're shocked today? Well, I think a lot of people are going to be intimidated by Trump. This is the way he governs and I think it may never come to a vote on the floor.

If the new leadership in the Senate goes to the president and says, you cannot endanger Republican senators by forcing them to vote in favor of this nomination. If you don't want to have a real internal party battle, this nomination needs to be withdrawn. Do you think that Gaetz is the, and we'll take through some of the other nominees, but do you think he's the only one that you might see some real opposition to or do you think there are others? Well, I think that Tulsi Gabbard's nomination to be Director of National Intelligence, when I first heard that today, my immediate reaction was hilarious.

Why? She's totally not competent for that job. Gaetz is the worst. She may be tracking in at the second worst.

Haven't had a lot of time to do research on the Tulsi Gabbard nomination, but let me bring you to January the 8th, 2020 congressional briefing after President Trump's correct decision to eliminate costume Soleimani, the head of the Iranian could force. She said Tulsi Gabbard said in an interview with Jake Tapper that the briefers who described the reasons for the elimination of costume Soleimani and how it carried out. She said they provided vague comments, no justification whatsoever, but this illegal and unconstitutional act of war that President Trump took. So now is she prepared to obey the orders of a man who committed an illegal and unconstitutional act of war as the record of national intelligence?

Is that the kind of person Donald Trump that wants to head that important function? I believe for a long time that ODNI should be abolished, and now there's another reason to abolish it. Well, and undoubtedly that will come up during her confirmation hearings, and there's no doubt about that, that quote that you just read, which is incredibly striking to hear it. Let me ask you about Pete Haggseth.

He obviously also came as a surprise to some people because he, yes, has a military background, and is a Fox News host. Did you see that one coming, and is that someone who you would support? Well, I don't put Haggseth in the same category as Matt Gates and Tulsi Gabbard. And I think the purpose of the confirmation process is to find out whether he's qualified.

I used to do a lot of stuff on Fox News, too. I don't think that disqualifies me. Haggseth went to Princeton University. It's not Yale where I went, but it's not a band little college.

He served with honor and bravery in the military, and people say he was only a captain. Chuck Hagel was an enlisted man, so was I in the National Guard. So, being a captain is government experience. And he handled the job.

It depends, in part, on who he has around him. And he said a number of things that have come out in the past day or so, saying he'd fire the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I think that's a clear mistake. Why?

Because I think that is the kind of politicization of the military that we've striven throughout our history. And I think it's been very successful in keeping the military non-political. There are complaints about what Biden's policy did to the Department of Defense, and if it's to clean up the politicization that Trump wants to act, I think that's fine. I don't think you want to compound the error by going through a purge of generals that you think are unsatisfactory.

Do you anticipate that there will be a purge of your language of sorts, both in the DOJ and at the Pentagon? Look, the president has and should have freedom to get the kind of people in place that he wants in government. Article 2 is very clear about where the executive power lies. It lies with the president.

The question is whether it's prudent and sensible to do some of the things they've been talking about. If you've got Matt Gaetz as the Attorney General, I'd like to see what lawyers are prepared to work for him. And I'd like to see what their reaction is when he starts ordering prosecutions as Trump wanted John Kerry prosecuted in his first term for violation of the Logan Act. How much are that?

Are we going to see? Is Matt Gaetz going to prosecute Liz Cheney and Mark Millie? Are there attorneys in the Department who on the basis of no evidence, whatever they've committed any criminal conduct, are they really going to convene a grand jury? This is the kind of crisis that you're going to see.

I think in these two departments, Defense and Justice in particular, where the flashpoints will be in the second Trump term. Do you have any concerns? You've obviously been critical of President Trump after he left office. You know, look, he's got a long list of people to seek retribution against.

I don't know where I am on the hit parade these days, but this is something we should stand against. You don't prosecute your political opponents for disagreeing with you. Let me ask you about Marco Rubio in the context of an issue you and I talk about quite a lot, which is Ukraine. How do you see if he is, in fact, confirmed to be the next Secretary of State?

He has been supportive of funding, but it's also time to wind this word down. How do you think he would impact those foreign conflicts? Well, what I hope people do, and I hope Mike Walts will do the same, who's also modified his position on Ukraine, they are now no longer in the position of giving political speeches. They now have to do strategic analysis of what's in the best interest of the United States.

And given the circumstances and given the negative effect of a Russian victory or what seen as a Russian victory in Ukraine, that point has to be made. Here's one important point they should make. It's not just a Russian victory, it's the impact it has on China. The principle threat the United States faces.

If we don't stand up to aggression on the continent of Europe, are we going to stand up to it in Asia? Well, so you take me to my next question, because obviously, Marco Rubio is a hawk when it comes to China. Do you think that that is a strong nomination? Look, I think it's the best you can expect from the Trump administration, and I think I have a lot of respect for Marco Rubio.

I wish he was stronger on Ukraine. Nobody agrees with anybody 100%. I'd say pretty nearly the same thing about Mike Walts. I don't want to do him any damage with Trump.

I probably should say I'll be for him or against him, whichever will help them more. But I think these are two strong nominations. Do you think that President Elect Trump is going to take the oath of office in just a matter of months? Do you think he will adhere to the oath?

I don't know. I honestly don't know. I don't think he understands oaths. I don't think he understands what the responsibilities of the presidency are.

It's why I thought he was not fit to be reelected. Right. That's a good example. As always, we really appreciate your perspective.

Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Great to see you. After the break, Elon Musk has been a New York constant presence in our logo since election day.

Does the SpaceX CEO risk overstaying his welcome in Trump's orbit? We have new reporting ahead. Don't go anywhere. You're watching.

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President-elect Donald Trump had a close ally in tow in his trip to Washington today, not his vice president-elect or family, but the world's richest man. We're talking about Elon Musk, the SpaceX and Tesla CEO accompany Trump during his meeting with the House Republican Conference this morning, fresh off of being named co-chair of an external committee on government spending with the fake ramaswami. But Musk's closeness with Mr. Trump appears to be wrangling others in the president-elect's orbit.

My NBC News colleague, Dasha Burns, reports that some in the Trump inner circle feel that Musk is overstaying his welcome and stepping on the toes of the official Trump transition team. The tech billionaire has been in your constant presence at Mar-a-Lago since the election, and one source tells NBC News that he's, quote, behaving as if he's a co-president and making sure everyone knows it. Well, lawmakers tell us that Trump joked in the room of House Republicans today, quote, Elon won't go home. I can't get rid of him.

Showing me now with more is my NBC News colleague, Dasha Burns, who's done a fantastic job covering the entire election and now transition. So Dasha, take us inside these new details you're getting about people starting to lose a little bit of patience with Elon Musk. What are you hearing? Hey, Kristin.

Well, you talked about what Trump said in just earlier today, joking that he can't get rid of him. Well, it's not really a joke, or at least not a funny one. They feel like the source that I've been speaking with. He has been overly aggressive in sharing his opinions, in trying to influence President Elect Trump.

And just in general, his presence has been built everywhere from dinners at Mar-a-Lago to phone calls to meetings and on the plane and in DC. I mean, he is just everywhere that his staff looks, and some are feeling like that's a little bit too much. One source telling me that this actually might be bad for him the long run because when you think about who succeeds in Trump world, it's actually people who tend to keep a lower profile than those high profile people that think they have all of the influence, they tend to burn out quickly, Kristin. Yeah, it's a really good observation.

Why do you think President Elect Trump is so drawn to him? Is it because he's the wealthiest man? He's a businessman? What is the connection between the two of them?

Well, look, Kristin, this is a man who spent millions of his own dollars to get Trump elected. That is not lost on President Elect Trump, that's not lost on his team either, by the way. I mean, either through his super back or through his million dollar giveaways, which were legally questionable. He did so much, including getting his own time with town halls in Pennsylvania to try to get him into the White House.

And a lot of people are crediting Elon Musk with some of that success. And he's also an often talked at rallies and in interviews about Musk's eccentricity, his brilliance. He's been engaged in sort of long-dinner conversations at Mar-a-Lago with him. So I think there's also just a fascination with another eccentric billionaire, Kristin.

Dasha, talk to us about this, Musk, Ramaswani Committee, doesn't require confirmation. How do you view it? What's your reporting telling you? Well, look, the big question is, how much power do they have?

Is this just a night's idle form to guys that have been really loyal to Mr. Trump? Or is this a way to bypass confirmation and give them the ability to do what they have talked about doing? I mean, Ramaswani campaign on this and Musk talks about this endlessly.

They want to slash and dismantle the federal bureaucracy. And there's a lot of alarm about that, Kristin. I mean, they're one of the largest unions of federal employees said today that this could have serious impact on critical programs like Social Security, like Medicare. This could have a big impact.

And the question is, how exactly does this get executed, this task force that they're talking about? Yeah, that is certainly the big question that's out there. Dasha Barnes, great reporting. As always, thank you so much.

Appreciate it. Coming up, Republican Senator John Thune's rise to power and what it means for the Trump agenda as the GOP flinches a governing trifecta here in Washington. The panel weighs in next. Stay with us.

You're watching. Meet the press now. This Republican team is united. We are on one team.

We are excited to reclaim the majority and to get to work with our colleagues in the House to enact President Trump's agenda. We have a mandate for the American people. A mandate not only to clean up the mess left by the Biden, Harris, Schumer agenda, but also to deliver on President Trump's priorities. Welcome back.

That was newly minted Senate Majority Leader John Thune putting down his marker for the unified Republican government in Washington, passing President Trump's agenda and at least right now that agenda includes confirming Florida Congressman Matt Gates to head the Justice Department. And we are getting a little bit more reaction right now from inside the DOJ to the Gates pick. One official calling it quote, truly stunning, another labeling it insane and yet another source telling our NBC News reporters, look, he is uniquely qualified how many other prospective attorneys general had previous experiences as the subject of a criminal investigation. So that's just the reaction that we're getting right now.

Joining me now on set is Eugene Daniels, White House correspondent for Politico and the senior NBC News political analyst, former Maryland Democratic congressman Donna Edwards. She is also an NBC News political analyst and former Pennsylvania Republican congressman Charlie Dente is now a senior advisor at our Republican legacy. Thank you all for being here. Eugene, let me start with you.

You heard the reactions that I just read. What do you make of this Matt Gates pick? Yeah, I mean, I'm getting some here and I'm like, I'm more Cynthia Lomis, the senator was kind of walking away and our colleagues asked her, like, what do you think I'm at? So she said, I'm getting in this car if you're asking me about that, right?

So the way that that senators dodged these questions as members of Congress do as well is really where you can tell what's happening, right? It doesn't seem to be any excitement about Matt Gates under the Marco Rubio, who's up for Secretary of State and the Trump administration and people confused by it, a lot of folks are confused by it. But I think when you're looking at it, loyalty is number one for Donald Trump. That has been very clear from a lot of the folks he's looking at and also making sure that the people that he puts forth are some particle, right?

A lot of the things that Matt Gates has said about the DOJ and about what he would do if he was at the DOJ or send it to what Donald Trump would want. I will also say, though, the things that are coming back up, his contra-mini controversies are coming back and those will be a central part of whatever Senate hearing he ends up having. Undoubtedly, and that, of course, is a big question looming over this. Can Matt Gates get confirmed?

I want to play a little bit of a sound bite with Texas Republican, Troy Niles. This is what he said after he learned about the Gates nomination look. If Donald Trump says jump three feet high and scratch your head, we all jump three feet high and scratch your heads. That's it.

If Donald Trump says, Harris, work, Harris, work, period, if Donald Trump is really never wrong, think about it. He's never wrong. Congressman Dent. So that was actually taken before the Gates pick was announced, but he's basically saying he can pick whoever he wants.

We're gonna back him. What do you make of that? And does that signal that Matt Gates can get confirmed? Well, I suspect they're gonna be a significant number of Republican senators demanding that this nomination be withdrawn ASAP.

I suspect it will be some Republican senators will not vote for this. The question is, will there be a recess appointment? And there are going to be a number of Republicans you just showed a few House members who thought they'll jump as high as Donald Trump wants them to, but they're going to be a lot of Republican members in swing districts are going to have them 2016 who aren't going to be jumping real high and are going to have a real problem with this. And somebody should call Kevin McCarthy right now and ask him what he thinks.

I mean, please. Everyone is saying, what is Kevin McCarthy saying right now? The reference, of course, the fact that Matt Gates led the charge Congressman to push Kevin McCarthy out of being House Speaker, Democrats in the minority officially now. Do you believe that they have any leverage, any power as the Trump agenda moves forward?

Well, I mean, look, the only thing that Democrats can do now is really demand full swing hearing so that they can get some of these things, you know, clear out and on the record for the American people. You know, they'll have the ability in the House, I think, to do a little bit of maneuvering, but not much, depending on what the majority is. We don't, we still don't know that yet what the margin is. And in the Senate, I think that there are gonna be Senate Republicans who are gonna be up for election and are gonna be concerned about some of these appointments and some of the policy.

I think there also will be senators who are just concerned about the nominees and that they are gonna face some really hard choices. And I think I agree with Charlie that the demand to have people quietly withdraw those nominations are gonna come forward. Well, let's go ahead. But he's also the subject of House ethics investigation and ethics committee took the very unusual step last year, earlier this year of actually saying what they were investigating and not investigating about him.

They never talk about ongoing investigation. Yeah, absolutely. And it is just such a striking backdrop to the fact that now he's been tapped to head DOJ president-elect Trump, obviously not wasting any time rolling out these nominations. So we also know, Pete Haggseth, who is a Fox News host, he's also served.

He has been tapped to be defense secretary. You have Tulsi Gabbard, DNI, you just heard Ambassador John Bolton saying that she's the second worst pick. And that is the first worst pick. It's just Trump really daring Senate Republicans to break with him effectively with some of these picks.

I think so. I think like Matt Gaetz is a perfect example of let's see what you guys are going to do, right? Because when you think about Donald Trump, he likes to test the loyalty in a lot of different ways. This could be one of them, right?

I do know none of us are in his head. We don't know if he really wants my guess to be AG or if he's using him as some kind of sacrifice, right? When you look at the way that senators in the party of the president end up operating sometimes, they kind of want like a sacrificial lamb. New York Tandon was one of those for Democrats and for Joe Biden.

You kind of give them someone who they vote for everyone else and they can say no to someone. And that could be what's happening here. But I think he is daring them to do what exactly Niels is saying, though he's in the house. Are you guys going to pass my agenda?

Are you going to advise and consent? And one point there, you're going to do what I say, right? That is how Donald Trump wants the Senate and the house to operate while he's president and innocent. He started his campaign saying, I am your retribution.

He's talked about the enemies from within and a lot of Democrats see this as a sign that he is serious about going after his political enemies. How do you see it? Well, in his election night speech, he said, promises made, promises kept. And I take Donald Trump at his work and I think Democrats are right to do that.

Look, we all know that Donald Trump really learned from his first term, who not to put in some of these key positions. He wants people who are loyal to him. He wants people who are going to do his bidding. And I think that that is what he expects out of these nominees.

Congressman, what about that? Is this administration going to be more loyal to him? If you look at the whole picture, in other words, during his first administration, there were people who could say, no, we disagree with you. Let's not do this.

Let's not do that. Is he basically tapping loyalists? Oh, I think he intends to populate his whole administration with loyalists. Those who did push back before are gone are not going to serve again.

You just had an ambassador. But none of those types of strong personalities are probably not going to be in this administration. But I'll tell you what, you really are testing people's loyalties when you put up a mac 8s. And it made the head success nomination look pretty good by comparison.

I mean, seriously, I mean, and that was a head scratcher. I admire his service, but still, I mean, people are still at where that come from. And so I think this is, I'm really anxious to hear what some of these congressional Republicans are going to say about this. Because they don't like him.

They don't like mac 8s. It is going to be pretty fascinating. Because with Hanks, a lot of Republicans are saying, look, we're going to have an open mind about this. He did serve our country.

Eugene, let me just ask you about the other big news today is if there wasn't enough headlines to talk about. So the Senate Republicans have a new leader, John Zune, which is significant because, of course, Leader McConnell has served for years and years. And so this is going to be a new direction. You talk about which we just play the mandate he believes Republicans have.

He is a McConnell ally, though, which is what makes this so interesting. Of course, he's going to work to implement the Trump agenda, but how do you see the contours of that playing out? What's really interesting is he's probably the most established member of the leadership now in Washington, D.C. And when you look at how the back and forth played out as people were pushing who they wanted, right?

Because, Scott, we saw on Twitter, you see Elon Musk pushing for him, Don Jr. pushing for him. That kind of behavior actually turns the senators off, right? That a lot of senators moving into the films direction, who are already kind of over there.

But I think that, you know, Boone has made it clear that he wants to push the Donald Trump agenda, right? He seems like he's on board. He or said and done, right? When you're doing it at the beginning.

But he is going to be new at this job. He's been in leadership. But there are going to be a lot of things that Donald Trump is going to do to test whether or not Senator Thune, a lot of the Republicans in that, in the Senate, can do what he wants to do, right? When you look at folks that are either next year or the year after, you can look at people who have already pushed against Donald Trump in the past and think about Murkowski, Collins, those kinds of folks.

Are they going to go along with this? So, Boone doesn't have as easy a job as an economy of that. Look, I think John Thune is a very good choice. He's a thoughtful, decent guy.

People respect him on both sides of the aisle. They like to work with him. But he does. I agree.

This is going to be very tough for him. And, by the way, when Donald Trump Jr. goes after him and urges Scott, that's not a great way to begin your term. If the Trump people are trying to make friends, I wouldn't go after the new leader of the Senate the way they did.

Okay. We are unfortunately out of time. But thank you so much for a wonderful conversation on a very busy day. Eugene, Donna, and Charlie, great stuff.

Thank you all for joining us. I'm back tomorrow with more of me. The press now. The news continues with Hallie Jackson, right now.

He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention. Utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Makowitz.

And this is Trace of Suspicion, an all-new podcast from Bigline. Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.