Meet the Press NOW - November 2

Good day to you and welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Peter Alexander here in Washington, where the House of Representatives is set to vote any minute now on an emergency aid bill for Israel, a package that the White House is criticizing as both insufficient and partisan. We are going to speak with the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee about that coming up. But we do want to begin at this moment with the latest on the ground in the Israel-Hamas war, with Israeli forces pushing further into Gaza.

An IDF, Israeli Defense Forces spokesperson, now says that Israeli forces have completely surrounded Gaza City and that a ceasefire is not on the table. All of this comes as the Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, left Washington this afternoon en route to Israel and Jordan, restating the U.S.'s support for Israel, but also urging restraint as the casualties increase in Gaza. No country, no country, not the United States, not anyone else that I can think of would tolerate the slaughter of civilians. So we stand behind that.

We stand behind the proposition. But as democracies, the United States, Israel, other democracies have a responsibility to do everything possible to protect civilians who may be caught in harm's way. And this, again, is a crossfire, quite literally, of Hamas' making. We will be talking about concrete steps that can and should be taken to minimize harm to men, women, and children in Gaza.

And this is something that the United States is committed to. I'm not going to get into the details here, but it's very much on the agenda. Secretary Blinken's comments come as the Israeli army says it is successfully collapsing some of Hamas' defenses. As a Hamas leader made a chilling vow on Lebanese television recently to repeat last month's horrific terror attack, quote, again and again.

And as Americans try to evacuate from Gaza, we are beginning to learn more about the experience of those fortunate enough to make it out safely. Dr. Barbara Zind, the pediatrician who was working in Gaza when the war began, was among a handful of Americans to cross through Rafa yesterday. She spoke about her experience from Cairo.

Take a listen. It started out with unexpected missiles and bombing and almost consistent when we were in Gaza City. And so that was, you know, the room was shaking, glass was shaking. So that was all, you know, pretty upsetting and pretty scary.

We then went to three U.N. centers. The last one we were at for about two weeks. We were right next to Hamas center in one of the U.N.

sites. And so there were some bombs dropped not too far away. Still many people hoping to leave Gaza also face what is an agonizing decision, whether to leave their loved ones behind. Unfortunately, I'm not even excited to leave Gaza because we have so many people that we live and care about, we love and care about.

So right now I'm between ice and fire. I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to see the family that I left behind or the friends that I left behind. People are dying. Everybody's dying.

Nobody's safe. You can see the emotion there from her NBC video from earlier today shows the people at the Rafa crossing pouring over lists just to determine if they could cross into Egypt today as crowds keep gathering while they wait for permission to leave Today the White House told us that in total 79 at least 79 Americans and family members have exited through the Rafa crossing into Egypt Five yesterday, 74 as of this morning. That number is going to grow. Hundreds of Americans remain and are waiting to leave.

NBC's Megan Fitzgerald is in Cairo, Egypt with the latest. We've been speaking with many Americans who managed to make their way from Gaza to here in Cairo, and they described a bit of a chaotic scene. Once they got word that they were able to make their way to the border because their name was going to be on the list, they say from start to finish, it was about 12 hours to reach Egypt. They say once they got to the Rafa border crossing on the Gaza side, they had to wait for their name to be called.

Once their name was called, they put their documents forward, their passport. They went through other paperwork. Before they were then able to cross over, they were shuttled to the Egyptian side. Then they underwent a physical.

Children were vaccinated, according to the Egyptian Ministry of Health, before they made their way on a bus here to Cairo. But this was a very agonizing decision for a lot of people that we spoke with. Some people remain in Gaza, even though their name was on the list, because their spouse wasn't on the list. It's a very difficult decision for people to leave, especially when they are leaving behind family members that are not able to escape the horror.

We do know that the Gaza, the border crossing is expected to remain open for several weeks because 7000 people, according to the Egyptian government, will be given safe passage from Gaza into Egypt. Again, this is according to Egyptian officials. So this is something that we are going to be monitoring for a very long time. As for the Americans that we've spoken with, they are looking forward to a good night's rest and getting back home.

Back to you. Megan Fitzgerald, you're reporting on the ground there. We want to get right to Alison Barber. She is at the Israel-Gaza border.

And Allison, I want to get to you. We've been watching your live picture as we were listening to Megan there. We see what appear to be flares or bright lights in the sky across the border in Gaza. What can you tell us about it?

Yeah, let me let you just look with us. So this area where you're seeing those flares up, if you look underneath the flares, you can see all of the smoke there. This is an area that has been getting hit pretty hard in the last few minutes. It's also an area that we have been watching really since Friday night.

This is the northwest corner of Gaza City. And since Israeli forces first entered into northern Gaza to launch what is still the ongoing ground offensive inside of there right now, they entered in this general area in the city of Beit Hamnun. It was kind of in this pocket here where Israeli forces entered. So there's been heavy activity here really since Friday.

We're seeing it pick up again tonight. There was a bit of a lull last night, but that's some of what you're seeing there. Those flares in the sky allowing us to catch a glimpse of just the massive amount of smoke that is billowing out from that area where strikes have been carried out. We are also seeing and hearing a little more over into the direction in the distance, more so towards where Gaza City is, explosions.

And you just probably saw that flash behind me there. So when we're talking about kind of more this area, when you're seeing flashes over there, that is sort of headed more into the direction of where Gaza City would be located from where we are standing here. We directly on the northern border See that flash there again back in that direction That more headed towards Gaza City area And that according to the IDF that is where Israeli forces have currently encircled the city Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said they consider what is happening on the northern border with Lebanon to be a vigorous defensive effort They have said what is happening in the south and inside of Gaza they consider that to be a vigorous campaign They are advancing forward. We have seen reports from Hamas' military wing as well describing incredibly violent clashes inside of northern Gaza.

Over 300 Israeli soldiers have died since this war began. And according to what we have heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu and other Israeli military leaders and what we see every night here, there is no chance of a ceasefire, at least right now. Peter. Ellison, it is dramatic as we see what you're seeing right now, obviously.

And it also gives you a real perspective just how close in terms of proximity everything is. These kibbutz in southern Israel just across the border from Gaza there. It's only 25 miles from the top of Gaza to the border with Egypt right now. I want to get a better understanding about what we're hearing right now.

The Israelis have reported at least 16, I think it is, Israeli soldiers who have been killed on the ground in the new fighting taking place over the course of the last several days there. Is there anything more we know about this operation? The target, obviously, not just commanders, but also those underground tunnels and the effort to try to find hostages at the same time. yeah i mean it's been interesting because we have seen just yesterday and again today we've seen hamas's military wing al-qasam brigade released some footages of fighting inside of northern gaza and we've gotten to see a bit of a glimpse of how they are using those tunnels that are underneath gaza remember those are expected believed to be about 300 miles worth of underground tunnels and some of the videos we've released you see them popping up out of the tunnels crawling laying flat shooting at a tank and then essentially just disappearing back down in that tunnel system that is what israeli military leaders have pointed to to say that that is an extra layer of what makes this phase, this current phase of ground invasion, which they've been calling the second phase of war, incredibly difficult.

Urban combat in a place like Gaza City is hard for any sort of military. When you add in the factor that there are these tunnels, it's making it incredibly difficult. And there have been quite a few moments in recent days where Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu has seemed to address the toll and the difficulties of this on their soldiers, saying that the cost of it is not nothing for Israeli soldiers. There are soldiers who are dying, but they also say they believe this is a fight.

And he has described it as a fight for all of humanity, that they must rid Gaza of Hamas. They have described it in terms of light versus darkness, things like that. So from the Israeli perspective, this is going to continue moving forward. And they have told their citizens to be prepared for a prolonged war that will not end in weeks or even months, possibly.

But they say will only end when Hamas can no longer operate inside Gaza Strip and when those 200 plus hostages are found and reunited with their families. Alison, I want you to stay with us. And if you can ask your camera just to push in so we can continue to watch the live picture there on the ground. This is a unique look at the evolving situation as this firefight continues to develop.

And I want to bring in my colleague, Monica Alba, who is at the White House with the latest on this as well. Monica, as we watch those flares, the smoke and what appears to be just an intensifying fight taking place in and around gaza city as we understand right now we also know that the US secretary of state and the blanket is on his way to the region right now he's gonna stop in Israel expected to go to Jordan as well you remember the president when he was in that region was supposed to go to Jordan but ultimately the Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas said that wasn't gonna happen he left and all parties agreed that it wouldn happen what does Blinken hope to accomplish on this visit yeah this is going to be a multi effort Peter by the secretary to continue the conversation but to put it into a slightly new phase in remarks that we heard from him before departing that first stop will be Israel where the conversations will continue with the prime minister and with everybody in his war cabinet about what the next steps are in this offensive. And also continuing, of course, to put the emphasis on trying to get those hostages out and home while pushing for more humanitarian aid. They say that the ramp up has been encouraging in the last couple of days, but that frankly, it's a drop in the ocean compared to what actually needs to get into Gaza.

And they have really asked the Israelis and the Egyptians to help with that. But then he's also going to be thanking the Israelis and the Egyptians for what they've been able to do to try to allow for some of those Americans and some of those dual citizens and foreign nationals to get out of Gaza through the Rafa border crossing. But the backdrop to all of this, according to Secretary Blinken, is to now start this conversation that's a little bit more focused on what a sustainable, durable peace would look like. And I think given President Biden's comments overnight about a humanitarian pause and why that is needed more and more here, that is a very important message that the secretary is going to be delivering to the Israelis face to face to continue to ask them to consider and protect civilian life, but also to agree to some of these temporary pauses because they feel that is when they've been able to be successful in potentially having arrangements to get some hostages out.

Because when you see activity, just like the one you're seeing on your screen now, it's obviously impossible to do most of those operations. So that's something that the U.S. president has been pleading with the prime minister in their conversations and one that the secretary is going to deliver when he lands in Israel tomorrow. Monica, stay with us.

Alison Barber, I know you're there staying with us as well. We'll keep looking at this live picture. And I want to bring into this conversation the retired four-star General Joseph Othell, former commander of U.S. Special Operations Command and U.S.

Central Command. Notably, he is now a distinguished senior fellow on national security at the Middle East Institute. We appreciate your being with us, General. Obviously, you have a unique perspective on everything that we're seeing right now.

If you can help us get a better understanding of what we are seeing in these pictures right now, multiple bright flares that appear to be raining down or floating above parts of northern Gaza right now. Can you tell us what we are witnessing? Sure. Thanks.

It's great to be with you. So what you're looking at right here with these flares, I mean, military organizations use flares in these situations to provide artificial illumination of the battlefield so they can kind of see what is going on. One is to kind of see the reaction of the adversary, in this case Hamas, but also to help with their own targeting. If they're doing indirect fires, if they're doing airstrikes, if they're employing direct fire, this additional illumination helps them to make sure that they're directing that onto the targets that they're trying to create effects on.

General Votel, can you help us understand the IDF within the last couple of hours said they have now surrounded Gaza City. They have said repeatedly that that is, like other parts of Gaza, a Hamas stronghold. How significant is this moment that we are witnessing in this war, this now ground offensive by the Israelis. And what do you what should we anticipate the next several days to look like?

Sure. So, you know, isolation of an objective area is an important step in any offensive operation. And that's essentially what we're seeing here. So they closed in around the city and a variety of different approaches here to gain kind of a tactical advantage control.

the entry and exit points into the city and allow themselves to be poised for what comes next. And, of course, this is the more challenging part of the operation. Most of the organizations we're seeing here are probably armor organizations, tanks, infantry, and I think in some of the, before I did earlier, you saw the presence of some bulldozers, some engineers and others. These are the types of forces that will be up here right around the city that will be necessary as they actually begin operations moving into the Gaza city itself.

And, of course, this will be the kickoff point for what will be the most difficult part of this. This is the building by building, street by street, tunnel by tunnel, floor by floor clearing and movement of this to this area that will be necessary to gain control by the Israeli force. General Votel, stay with me for a moment. I'm going to come right back to you.

I just want to take a moment for those of us who are joining us right now on Meet the Press. Now we are looking at live pictures. This is happening as we speak. This is just inside Gaza, where it is six hours ahead of the East Coast here, 10, 15 p.m.

So after dark, but the skies have been illuminated by a series of explosions, as you just saw on the left side of your screen and what appear to be a series of different flares as well. And General Votel, who joins us formally, the commander who headed up U.S. Central Command, he's watching with us. General Votel, we were just seeing as we watched this, and we really are relying on your expertise, when it got dark and all of a sudden we saw those bright lights heading toward the ground, are there more of those flares?

Are those targeted strikes? What are we seeing? I think what you're looking at, the yellow light, is a flare. And they can be launched through a variety of different means, and they have a burn rate.

And you'll see that they'll continue to put them up one right after the other to continue to provide them some illumination. So what you're not actually looking at there, that bright light, isn't exactly the problem. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Let me ask you if I can very quickly, and I appreciate your being with us as we continue with this live coverage right now.

Clearly, the Israeli Defense Forces face a very unique challenge. They are going into densely populated areas, 2 million Palestinians who live inside of a land area that is only 25 miles from the southern border with Egypt to the northern border with Israel. It's only a matter of miles from east to west between the Mediterranean Sea and Israel now. And in this effort, as they come across Hamas militants, Hamas terrorists, they are also dealing with underground tunnels.

and at the same time they are trying to find what is believed to be more than 240 hostages, including some Americans. How does that complicate this effort not to harm those hostages they are trying to find while also having to deal with tunnels beneath them, some of which are more than 60 feet below ground? Now, this is exactly the height of complexity right here. I mean, as you pointed out, it's three-dimensional terrain, and you're entering in the most dense portion of it, unfortunately.

So the way that the Israelis will do this is to move as deliberately as they can into buildings and down streets as they move through the city. You're always being on the lookout for where there may be locations where hostages may be, but also staying specifically focused on Hamas fighters and trying to eliminate that threat Clearly the intelligence is really important there That will complement a lot of what we a lot of what they are going to be doing in the next several days I want to follow up and ask a little bit more about that intelligence if I can for a minute If you were advising the Israeli defense forces right now, given the criticism we have seen from protesters within the United States, from other certainly countries within the Arab world right now, what, if anything, would you be telling the Israelis to do differently? Obviously, so much of the focus has been on the casualties among civilians right now. Israel says that they have given warnings in those communities, including in refugee camps, that some of them were leaflets that were dropped multiple weeks ago, several weeks ago, and yet the casualty count grows.

Israel says it's the only means by which they can target these Hamas terrorists in these areas where they're using these civilians as human shields. So another dimension of the fight here is the information domain. And if I was to offer some thoughts or some advice to the Israeli defense forces, it would be to make sure you're paying attention to this. They're addressing a variety of audiences, their own citizens, the Jewish diaspora, international partners, people in the region, their adversaries.

So it is really important for them to communicate clearly about what they're doing. You know, we talked about the reference to the strikes earlier in this week, clearly highlighting the value of those strikes versus the risk that we're exposing to science. It's an important thing for them to address. And, of course, they need to work closely with the international community as much as they can to support humanitarian efforts to help the innocent Palestinians who themselves are kind of being held hostage by Hamas, not get caught up in this fighting.

Well, to the point that you make, we've heard from the United Nations, among others, saying that the hospitals and that the Gazan people right now are running dangerously low on fuel. NBC News is reporting based on information from multiple U.S. and current and former Israeli officials that Hamas has been stockpiling, hoarding more than 200,000 gallons of fuel, a lot of it to be used to help launch their rockets, also to run the generators that provide oxygen to the underground tunnels right now. So this is, as you say, this is the height of complexity in terms of a war effort.

General Votel, I hope you will stay with us. Please stay with us. I do want to go quickly back to the ground. Our colleague Allison Barber is there.

She is at the border alongside this camera position where, again, We are watching live pictures from the Israeli-Gaza border right now just after approaching 1030 in the evening there. The sky is illuminated by these flares as one burns out. Another one is sent into the sky to help illuminate the ground operations being carried out by the Israelis right now. Ellison, you have been on the ground there since only a matter of days after that initial assault by Hamas.

More than 1,400 Israelis were killed. Men, women, children, babies among them, more than 200 plus taken hostage. We have not seen anything like what we are seeing right now. This appears to be the most intense effort to this point.

Is that a fair way to assess it? I think so. I will also add the caveat that we have been, I mean, we've been reporting on this section of the border for over three weeks now, since Friday, when Israel first announced that they were moving ground forces into northern Gaza and that it would be different than what they had previously described as limited raids We did see and hear what I described from Friday on as the most sustained and heaviest amount of artillery fire into northern Gaza But I think we have seen since Friday waves of differences, right? So some of the things that we saw on Saturday is a bit of what we're seeing right now was just a constant garage of rockets, other bombs, other ordnance exploding inside of northern Gaza.

But I do think where you're right is that this is different and that we're seeing this lighting up in multiple pockets, this area that we're showing you on screen right now. You see that explosion in the distance. In addition to the flares, there's clearly some sort of massive ground effort in that area. This is the longest we have seen in one particular pocket.

Constant amount of flares. The most flares we have seen light up an area for them to move and operate since we have been out here. And also more consistent small explosions and booms in that general area. On top of that, this section that you're looking at right now, we also are still seeing in the distance, even further into Gaza, explosions and hearing again and again the sound of heavy artillery.

This is certainly an escalation. And I don't think it's a coincidence that it's happening right as you have the Israeli military saying, we have encircled Gaza City and we are going to continue pushing forward. They have said that Gaza City is going to be their most significant fight because that is where they believe most of Hamas militants are so deeply entrenched in this area. This would be kind of what you're watching would be the outskirts of Gaza City.

So that was my question, Alison. So this area that we're looking at, is it fair to say that that's roughly Gaza City, that area that for at least from our view appears to be shrouded by smoke? Yes, that would be like the west outskirts kind of of Gaza City. But yes, based on when we were double checking ourselves, looking at maps, this would be I think it would be fair to characterize that as sort of the northwest outskirts of Gaza City based on our maps and where our location is.

Again, we're on the Israeli side, but directly on the northern border. And, Allison, again, if I can follow up a bit, and I know I may be just catching you on the fly with some of these questions. So to the best of your knowledge, obviously there are some population centers, as it were. Gaza broadly is densely populated, but some areas more populated than others.

Certainly they do have some more rural areas where they allow for some of the agriculture. When the Israeli settlers in Gaza left in 2006, they left behind some of their agricultural capabilities where they had been farming in that area. How many people live in Gaza City roughly? Do we have a better assessment when we talk about the sort of dense population there?

Well, I mean, look, we're talking about an incredibly populated city, but I think one of the things that makes it difficult to get a good population estimate for right now, which is what matter most for what we're seeing, is whether or not the amount of people Israel has claimed have evacuated the area have actually evacuated the area. So given the different numbers that we have had from previous times to now, Israel saying the majority of people in northern Gaza have evacuated, but then hearing conflicting reports from aid groups and hospitals inside in terms of where people are sheltering, I'm a little hesitant to get into too specific of numbers just because it's hard to know for sure. No doubt. But I mean, this is this is the main city center where people live, you know.

Yeah no doubt Allison I appreciate your reporting And I just so glad that you there in a safe place that you can help walk us through this Please stay with us Monica Albus at the White House She going to stay with us as well as we look at these live pictures We going to get to Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks in a moment as well But I also quickly want to ask our General Joseph Votel who led the U Central Command if you can help us better understand what we're seeing here. And obviously, General Votel, one of the real concerns for those around the world, certainly for those at the White House and for the American community at large, is the risk that this war escalates, that it expands, that Iran gets engaged. We know about the Eisenhower carrier strike group right now that is in the eastern Mediterranean, a separate second strike group is in that region as well. What concerns you most about the potential for escalation about this becoming a potentially wider war?

Well, we've certainly been concerned about miscalculations from groups or others along the way here that could lead to a greater escalation of this. I know there's been some reporting today that the Secretary General of Lebanese Hezbollah is giving a public statement tomorrow. There's some expectation that he may say something about this or give some indication of how they may step into this. So maybe we'll learn more in the coming days or coming hours and coming days here.

There certainly has been a lot of saber rattling by Iran and a number of other Iranian-aligned militia groups out there about the need to get into the fight. So I think we're still sitting on a tinderbox right here. I think a miscalculation caused a problem. And we'll see how this goes, I think, in the next couple of days.

But I think it's an extraordinarily dangerous situation. It's a good thing we've got these carrier strike groups and other American resources in the area to help with containing and hopefully deterring any significant action. And if I can, General Votel, the point you just made about Hassan Disralah, he, of course, as you said, the Secretary General of Hezbollah, which obviously has a much greater military might than even Hamas does. It's one of the real fears is what could happen in the northern portion of Israel.

If Iran is to sort of give the green light, if Hezbollah decides to take a more active effort here. What concerns you in anticipation of those comments? I think a lot of that region, and frankly, probably a lot of this country is bracing right now in anticipation of whatever Nasrallah may say, given the sort of power he wields over so many throughout the Arab world. Well, you know, Secretary General Nasrallah has lived through this before with Israel.

He knows the implications of going to war and what this is going to mean. Of course, he seems fully on display right now. So he's got to make some very careful calculations himself with us. And of course, the Israelis, as your reporter highlighted, you know, are on kind of strategic defensive in the north, which means they are well prepared.

We've seen them conducting exercises up in that area as recently as today. So I think he's got to be thinking about these types of things, too, that Israel is prepared for this and is expecting it. General Votel, the former commander of the U.S. Special Operations Command and U.S.

Central Command, we are so grateful that you've been with us for most of the last half hour for your expertise. Ellison Barber remains on the ground for us there at the Israeli Gaza border, Monica Alba at the White House. And right now I want to bring in Representative Gregory Meeks, the Democrat of New York, as we are watching these pictures of flares and explosions in Gaza. Just a few minutes.

Congressman Meeks, the House is set to vote on the Republicans' $14 billion Israel aid bill. The new House Speaker, Mike Johnson, as you know well, he decided to split that money for Israel from aid. to Ukraine and to add cuts to spending for the IRS as well, setting up this clash with the Democratic-controlled Senate. We've heard from Chuck Schumer saying it's dead on arrival there.

The president, the White House, has said they will veto this, but it does put some House Democrats in a tough position. Congressman, what are you anticipating? You obviously are the head of the House Foreign Affairs, or the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee right now. You've accused Republicans of playing politics with national security.

What do you say to those Democratic colleagues who may vote in favor of this bill, as some have indicated? Well, I think that clearly the Republicans are playing politics with our national security, and that should be apparent to all. Never before have we conditioned the support and aid to Israel, and we should not do it now. It would set a very bad precedent for the future.

And so I would think that you'll see very few Democrats because what is happening here, if you look at, as you said, Senator Schumer, you look at Republicans in the Senate, Democrats here, there's only the matter of Republicans that want to destroy precedent and condition aid to Israel. It is a bad bill that we should completely vote no on. And I would hope that some of our Republican colleagues also vote no. You know, many of us, Mr.

McCall, the chairman of the committee and I, also talk about how significant and important Ukraine is. And to have a bill that does not separate Israel from Ukraine, where we've already heard Hamas visited Russia recently, is a dangerous thing to keep them together. And I think that as the world looks at us, you know, and as we are moving forward, especially with some of our allies in the Gulf. We know that Saudi Arabia, for example, is negotiating to be a part of the Abraham Accords.

What they're looking at also, what helps them, is to make sure that humanitarian aid is included there. And that's what we need to do if we're going to get, you know, Hamas has got to go. We're going to make sure that Israel gets rid of Hamas. And then we've got to make sure that we've got a way forward.

And this is the way forward to save as many innocent human lives as we possibly can. Dr. Simic, I want to ask you about the pictures that we're seeing on the left side of our screen right now. This is the situation there in Gaza, what appears to be in and around Gaza City right now.

I'm going to ask you about that in a half a moment. But again, just to the point we've been speaking about, as Chuck Schumer, the top Democrat in the Senate, has said it's dead on arrival, this bill, when it gets to the Senate. So how much time does Congress have to play with before aid to Israel and Ukraine gets resolved? Not much.

That's why I wish that the Republicans did not play politics. It seems that everybody is on the same page with the exception of the MAGA Republicans in the House. I've been in Congress for 25 years now, and never have I seen such games being played. It is of an urgency that we must pass the supplemental for Israel, for Ukraine, for Taiwan, and in the Indo-Pacific.

They are all looking at us for leadership. and to be playing this game that the MAGA Republicans are playing is not a good thing. It is not good for Israel. You can say that it is a good thing for Israel because we could have put a bill on the floor that would have passed on suspension immediately getting them the aid that they need but they chose to play political games with this aid So Congressman we seen the pictures that we seeing right now Do you believe that it time for a ceasefire as some Democrats have called for protesters certainly have called for And if so, under what conditions would you support such a thing?

Well, no, I can't say ceasefire only helps. You know, people say you have a ceasefire because, you know, I mean, you look at Hamas, they would, you know, want Israel to stop moving forward so that they never stop shooting at Israel. So we need maybe a humanitarian pause to get people into position, whether it's a safety, et cetera, of that nature. We're working very hard.

I believe that Egypt and others need to open up the Raha openings so that we can put people in place. And we need to talk about how we get innocent people in a safe place. But Israel has got to do and continue to do and not give Hamas a chance to regroup and come together and then try another attack as they did before. You know, we cannot forget what took place on October the 7th.

And Hamas would love to take a break and try to regroup and try to further their destruction of Israel. We cannot allow that to happen. Let me ask you. I apologize.

I didn't mean to interrupt you. I apologize for the delay. I just want to ask you, though, as the world does see the civilian death toll grow in Gaza. Obviously, Israel is responding after 1,400 of its citizens were killed, some of them Americans, more than 30 of them Americans.

Do you have any reservations about the way that Israel is conducting this war effort? Well, I think that as president, I agree with President Biden, who I think have done a great job on this. We all have to abide by the rules of war. And I think that we need to make sure that we don't just go with vengeance and move forward and make some of the mistakes we made after 9-11.

So I agree with President Biden 100 percent. However, I also agree that we have to make sure that we go after and destroy Hamas. And that's why you can't take or have a ceasefire. You know, much of what I believe, and we'll get more information in a few days, but what Israel is doing now is destroying the infrastructure of Hamas, many of what is in tunnels and under the ground.

And so now what they're doing is destroying the infrastructure of Hamas. And then I think and hope that, you know, as we look at the end game of this, that the Palestinian people themselves will come up with some real leadership. But Hamas cannot be a part of that. And we can try to figure out, along with the Abraham Accords, along with our allies in the Gulf, to have a Marshall Plan, if you will, to rebuild Gaza at some point with a responsible government that says, as Egypt has said, as Jordan has said, as Bahrain has said, that Israel has the right to exist.

That's what this is all about. And again, to make a good point, it was in 2007, of course, where Hamas ousted the Palestinian Authority from its place of leadership inside Gaza. Hamas running that area, that slice of land for the last 16 years where it has been juggling its responsibilities with people there with its priority, which has been the annihilation of Israel. I do want to ask you as we look at more of these live pictures right now, you see those flares above Israel about some domestic politics as it relates to all of this and to the president He got a 2024 primary challenger within the last several days It your colleague the Democrat Dean Phillips of Minnesota What do you think about Congressman Phillips decision to run I think that he making a huge mistake There no question about that You know, on one side, he says and talks about the great things that President Biden has done.

And history is going to record that President Biden has done a great job. I know I don't want someone who does not have any foreign policy experience in the nature that Joe Biden have heading our presidency. I want the cool hand, the study hand, the wisdom that Joe Biden brings to a situation like this. I'm thankful that Joe Biden is the president of the United States as we're going through these horrific times in our world right now.

He is a guy whose whole career was built on foreign affairs. And we got the right guy at the right time to be the president. And we will need him in 2024 and beyond. Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York, we very much appreciate your making time to speak to us.

Thanks for holding on as we've been watching this developing news, this breaking news coming out of Gaza right now with what are flares and explosions above Gaza City. Congressman, thank you. We're going to be right back here on Meet the Press now after a very short break. As the day wraps up, get the scoop on what's been happening with Here's the Scoop, a new podcast from NBC News with your host, Gavin Vasugian.

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You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts. We're back now live on Meet the Press. Now, my colleague Josh Letterman is joining us from where he is, our foreign correspondent in Tel Aviv right now. We are looking at pictures on the left side of your screen from just moments ago.

You can see the flares illuminating the night sky there now approaching almost 11 o'clock in Israel, the end of this day. And it's really going out with an intense fight. We have been witnessing a series of explosions there. Those flares illuminating the ground below to allow for the Israeli defense forces who are telling us, Josh, as we've been reporting that they have now surrounded and appear, at least it seems, to be entering Gaza City right now.

You're on the ground. What are we hearing from the IDF and from your sources? Well, so far, the IDF has been very tight-lipped about what we're seeing tonight. They haven described this particular series of events that we seeing with these flares and a large number of airstrikes but we did hear just in the last couple of hours Peter from the IDF as you mentioned not only confirming that they have now encircled Gaza City which is a major development so far in this conflict but also saying that they were attacking Gaza over the last several hours with dozens of fighter jets, with armored forces, as well as with artillery and, of course, those continuing ground raids into Gaza Strip.

And so this does appear to be an escalation, as we have heard from Israel's military, saying that they have now received plans that have been approved via the chief of staff of the Israeli military for the next phase in their efforts against Hamas. They say they are making progress in their goal of eliminating Hamas completely. And they also say that they have dropped some 10,000 weapons into the Gaza Strip since the start of this conflict. And so this does appear to be moving into the phase of getting closer and closer into what Israel's military has described as really the stronghold for Hamas.

Gaza City, the most densely populated part of the Gaza Strip. And it comes after we have seen for really a couple of weeks now Israel's military telling all of those civilians to move south, signaling very clearly that exactly the kind of thing that we are seeing happen right now in northern Gaza would happen, that the Israeli military would go in a very aggressive way into northern Gaza, trying to eliminate all of those Hamas operatives. They say thousands of them who are concentrated in northern Gaza and hoping that they could get all of those civilians into safer areas in the south before that type of operation. Over the last 24 hours, we've seen multiple strikes on areas that include refugee camps in the northern Gaza Strip, not only the Jabalia refugee camp that we've been discussing for a couple of days, but also others that are in central and northern Gaza.

And so this appears to be part and parcel to what Israel has said is a difficult but necessary stage in the operation where they have to try to wrest control away from Hamas in densely populated civilian areas where they say Hamas is now deeply embedded into the civilian infrastructure, Peter. Josh, thank you. We appreciate your reporting from Tel Aviv. And as you watch these pictures, you see that smoke.

You just brace for when the smoke clears the potential death toll on all sides here, how many Hamas terrorists may have been killed, how many Israeli soldiers may lose their lives, and, of course, the impact on civilians, so many Palestinians on the ground in that densely populated area. I want to get to our colleague, our foreign correspondent, Matt Bradley. He is just across the northern border of Israel in Lebanon. And, Matt, you've been speaking with Hamas officials in recent days.

You spoke with a senior official today. We know we're going to be hearing from the leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah. Tomorrow you are in Beirut right now. What is the situation like there?

What are you hearing and anticipating? What is going to be another significant day tomorrow? Yeah, well, we just sat down with this senior Hamas official, and we asked him about Hezbollah, who's going to be making, well, the leader of Hezbollah is going to be making a speech tomorrow. You know, he actually said that he wished Hezbollah would be doing more, but just today we've been seeing that there were a ton of attacks by Hezbollah, some 19 guided missiles coordinated with artillery and other weapons fired across the border.

This is definitely marking an uptick in the sort of low-level conflict that we've been seeing, much, much less fighting than where my colleague Josh Letterman is on the fringes of the Gaza Strip. But all the same, this situation holds the potential for an even much more explosive war. That's because Hezbollah is just so much more powerful even than Hamas. I spoke with a Hamas leader today, and he said that basically, you know, they are going to be continuing their fighting, even as they're calling for a ceasefire.

believe that they reserve the right to attack Israel. This was a man who last week went on Lebanese television and said that there would be a second, a third, a fourth October 2nd, what Hamas and what many Palestinians refer to as the Al-Aqsa flood operation. He said that these will continue even as Hamas, and we're hearing this from groups throughout the entire world, are calling for a ceasefire. Peter?

And Matt, as you talk about that Hamas official with whom you spoke within the last several hours there and his comments on October 24th as well, we've had conversations with top officials at the White House, the National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby telling us within the last 24 hours, pointing, highlighting specifically those comments from this Hamas official, describing them as chilling in saying that this is what the people of Gaza are up against, that the Hamas leaders, the military wing of Hamas right now, is focused on the annihilation of Israel, saying they would repeat that assault on Israel again and again, and that they vowed to do such a thing. The American leadership, the White House, indicating that's why this is necessary for the Israeli defense forces to do everything in their power to defend themselves. I want to go back to Josh Letterman, if I can, if Josh is still with us in Tel Aviv. Okay, sorry, we don't have Josh's picture right now, so Matt, I'll stay with you for another moment if I can.

There are real concerns, obviously about this expanding into a wider war. What have we heard within the last series of days from the Iranian leadership right now amid those fears that this could expand? Well, I've got to tell you, you know, Peter, the really big thing we're about to hear is something we haven't heard yet. Tomorrow we're going to hear from Hezbollah leader Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah.

He has not spoken since this all began, and this is not a shy man. He comes out on television and speaks directly to his adoring audiences throughout the world on any occasion. He'll talk about, you know, gas extraction from the Mediterranean Sea. He'll talk about religious beliefs.

He does this all the time. He has stayed silent for the past four weeks, as we've heard from every leader and luminary throughout the entire Middle East, And that's why everyone, not just people in the region, but really throughout the world, are waiting on tetrahofs to hear what he says tomorrow when he finally breaks the silence and speaks. That will give us a pretty good indication of where all of this is headed, not just in the wider region, but also with Hamas and Israel. Hamas, as I spoke with this leader today, he wants Hezbollah to do more.

And it sounds like some of the subtext there was that they were a little disappointed that Hezbollah hasn't pitched themselves into the war on the northern front in a way that they really would want, even though we have seen an increase in the fighting again. It hasn't broken out into a full-on war. And if you zoom out here, Peter, we're seeing incredible threats and real attacks from Iran-linked troops in Syria Iraq Yemen and here in Lebanon So this is a threat that really could expand to include the entire region And then we have not one but two U aircraft carrier strike groups parked off the coast ready to keep this conflict from internationalizing That could drag the U into the war not to mention Iran itself So this is something that could metastasize to kind of include the entire region. All of a dramatic and dangerous backdrop, as we anticipate the U.S.

Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, arriving in the region in Israel tomorrow. Matt Bradley is covering this story from Lebanon, this war from Lebanon right now. Matt, we thank you. We're going to take a very quick break, and we're going to be right back.

You're watching Breaking News here on Meet the Press Now. Welcome back. Of course, we've been watching the breaking news from the Israel Gaza border throughout this hour. And here at home, the Senate voted today to confirm three top-level military promotions after nominations, as you've likely heard, were held up for months by Alabama's Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville over military policy on abortions.

Tensions between Tuberville and his Senate colleagues have really boiled over in the last 24 hours. Lawmakers on both sides getting frustrated, even furious that Tuberville refuses to change his position, even amid the war between Israel and Hamas. Patience is wearing thin on both sides of the aisle over the senator's antics. No matter where you believe it or not, Senator Tuberville, this is doing great damage to our military.

I don't say that lightly. I've been trying to work with you for nine months. I really respect men of their word. I do not respect men who do not honor their word.

We're going to look back at this episode and just be stunned at what a national security suicide mission has become. Joined now by our panel, Daniela Diaz, the congressional reporter for Politico, Sante Myrick, former mayor of Ithaca, New York, and current president and CEO of People for the American Way, and Sarah Chamberlain, president and CEO of Republican Main Street Partnership. All right, team, it's closing on the end of the hour, so we're going to go around quickly on this. What does it say, Daniela, that Tommy Tuberville has somehow managed to upset both Republicans and Democrats within the last 24 hours?

They were teeing off. and it's been bubbling for months. Democrats from the very beginning didn't like that. Senator Tuberville took the stance.

Republicans privately were saying that they didn't like that he did this, but this is the first time that we're seeing them actually publicly come out and do something about it. They are fed up by the fact that there are lots of nominations that have not been fulfilled and they decided to do something on this and possibly there could be a rules change, temporary, they want to make very clear, to stop Tuberville from doing this because he's not backing down even though his colleagues are upset. Sarah, it has put some Republicans in a challenging position right now. Lindsey Graham really said, hey, you are not making America safe right now.

If you were allowed to do this, Democrats could do something when the tide turns in the future here. This is a dangerous precedent, they argue. Absolutely. And they forced him against the wall, and he still didn't give up.

But I glad they went around him and got three confirmed today We have to move forward And it a shame he doing this And it really not I mean abortion And we at war now The world is at war We just saw that He should not be holding up for abortion He can fight that fight another day So let me ask you if I can really quickly. Right now, as we've been speaking, we're anticipating that vote from House Republicans, or they have by all members of the House, but Republicans. Speaker Mike Johnson has put it out there right now that Israel would be a standalone bill with some cuts to the IRS as part of the Inflation Reduction Act passed by President Biden in the first two years of his term right now. Some Democrats are saying, hey, I got to vote for this because I got to be on the side of voting for Israel, even if I disagree with the way in which this is happening.

Yeah, I think most won't. And it does seem, unfortunately, like the Republican Party just can't get out of its own way. You know, one toxic maneuver after another, not just for the country, but I mean, politically. And I think that's why Republicans are upset with Tuberville.

They know that if you combine weakening the military with supporting a national abortion ban, that's about the worst thing you could do politically. The same thing with this push to say, OK, we'll only support Israel if we can also allow people to cheat on their taxes. Really bad politically. And it's not even going to work.

The Senate and the White House is going to override it. Yeah, definitely rival in the Senate. that we've heard from the White House that they plan to veto this. So, Sarah, let me ask you about that right now, right?

Because it seems like the Republicans, there are certainly some more hawkish Republicans who are like supporting Ukraine, which is to say fighting Putin, should be a no-brainer for the party right now. I know American support for Ukraine is waning at this time, right? But as many Republicans, Lindsey Graham, among them have said, hey, if you let Putin do it there, what are you saying to President Xi in China vis-a-vis Taiwan? So we have a lot of Republicans, Republican Ministry Partnership, that are supporting the money for Ukraine and Israel.

Do not like the fact it's tied, Israel's tied to the IRS funding, but they plan on voting for it because they think Israel needs funding. So where's the pressure point? When does this break? I have no idea.

You tell me. I have no idea. Let me ask you right now. How does this break?

Because as I'm at the White House talking to sources right now, Israel, you know, they get $3 billion from the United States. Ukraine, though, the money they're getting, the flow, the attention certainly isn't right there, though. Without the continued munitions coming in from the United States and from other partners, they could get rolled over by Russia. There's a real concern that the window is closing there in particular.

Well, and we're seeing past Republicans use the Ukraine funding as leverage to get border funding, border policy change. Now they're saying, Speaker Mike Johnson said that last night, that he wants to intertwine those two issues to have leverage over Democrats to get them to support the border changes, because that's what Republicans say is their priority. So it's all a mesh of issues that's becoming intertwined that a lot of these members on both sides don't want to see together. So let me ask you if I can right now.

Obviously, we're talking presidential politics a bit, too. Here on NBC next week, we're going to have another debate for these challengers. Sarah to Donald Trump right now he not going to show up for the third straight debate He still has double digit maybe 40 point plus leads over his Republican challengers right now Is this a driving issue Is this a wedge issue in any way The issue of Ukraine among Republicans Are they all united in their belief system Basically that hey we not as concerned about Ukraine right now So they're not. So Ukraine is an important issue.

But I think what we just saw Israel, I think, is going to become the most important issue. And we may get tied into a war the way this is going. And I think it will really affect next year's presidential elections. Let me ask you, Donald.

We've heard President Biden. He has a new challenger right now. Democrats privately, you know, the president may not talk about Dean Phillips by name. He was notably in his district yesterday.

But Dean Phillips, the concern among some Democrats right now is that they say this guy who doesn't have a chance of winning is only amplifying concerns that voters may have about the president's age right now. In spite of his years of service, he is obviously more senior. Does that concern you? And should Democrats be upset by that?

Well, Biden, President Biden has proven to be remarkably resilient. He's tackled all sorts of comers in the last election. He said he was too old. Cornel West, RFK.

Now, Dean Phillips, I think none of them will truly stand in his way towards the nomination. He's got all eyes on November where voters will be looking for competence and control. And I got to be honest, the Republican Party is demonstrating anything but in global headwinds that are tumultuous. everything that they touch seems chaotic.

So let me follow up with one quick question on that. Our teens were in Michigan this week. There's a large Arab-American population there. Many in the Arab-American community, which has voted Democratic largely in the past, are saying, hey, we may sit this out.

We may not. We may even vote Republican one Arab-American, Palestinian-American, told us right now, that's in the state of Michigan. Democrats can't afford to lose the state of Michigan. We need Michigan.

We need young people. And we need all people of good conscience. So President Biden certainly has work to do there. So what do you say to progressives right now who have been many cases protesting in the streets?

I think part of it is the president needs to listen to those folks. But also, they need to judge him, as he often says, where his provocations in the Middle East have only inflamed detentions. And I think President Biden has a story to tell. You may not love everything he's done in this crisis, but would the alternative truly make it better?

Judge me against the alternative, not against the almighty. It sounds like you've been covering the White House beat for a while. I hear that all the time. Sarah, Savante, Danielle, I appreciate all you guys making time to be with us as we've watched this breaking news.

We're going to be back here with more Meet the Press now. Tomorrow, NBC News Now coverage continues with my friend Hallie Jackson. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention.

They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Makowitz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all-new podcast from Dateline.

Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.