Meet the Press NOW – November 20

Drive off in a new Hyundai Launcher today with $0 down during the Hyundai Advantage sales event. Take advantage of the $1,000 spring drive bonus and lease the 2026 luxury essential for just $73 a weekly at 4.99% for 60 months. And you're covered by Elantra's best in class five year new car warranty. Now that's the Hyundai Advantage.

Conditions apply. Offer includes 1% loyalty rate reduction for qualifying customers. Visit hyundaicanda.com or your local deal for details. If it's Monday Violence spreads in Gaza, catching another hospital crossfire as President Biden indicates that top US and foreign officials could soon reach a deal to release more hostages being held by Hamas, all as a divided Congress looks to send Israel additional aid before the end of the year.

Plus, inside Democrats potentially dire political emergency. Our new NBC News poll shows the president facing abysmal numbers on his handling of the Israel as a younger voter show signs of breaking with Biden at an interpretential election year. And Trump's lawyers challenge the federal gag order barring him from disparaging witnesses and harassing prosecutors in his D.C. election interference case, calling limits on the former president's speech unconstitutional.

Hello and welcome to Be the Press. Now I'm Ryan Nobles reporting in Washington on an incredibly busy day on the foreign wars front. At this hour, expectations are rising around Israeli hostage negotiation talks as a deal may be inching closer and is fighting near another hospital in Gaza intensifies. Meantime, President Biden faces dismal poll numbers at home, including over his response to the Israel Hamas war as Congress aims to pass aid for Israel and Ukraine.

And the Secretary of Defense makes a surprise visit to Kyiv today. We begin though, in Gaza, where overnight explosions and fire were seen near the Indonesian hospital in northern Gaza where the Hamas run. Gaza Health ministry says that 12 were killed. The Israeli military denied it shelling, denying that it shelled the hospital, saying that troops responded to fire from militants inside.

Video obtained by Reuters shows tanks near the hospital. NBC News has not been able to independently verify where the footage was shot, and Israel has repeatedly claimed that Hamas is using hospitals in Gaza as militant strongholds. Yesterday, the IDF released two new videos from the Al Shifa hospital after gaining control of the medical complex last week. The first video apparently showing the entrance to a Hamas tunnel under the hospital.

The second video, which is CCTV footage of what Israel says are hostages being taken inside Al shifa Hospital on October 7th. NBC has not independently verified the IDF's description of either of those videos. Now the security video Release comes as we're seeing positive messaging on hostage negotiations from Israel, the U.S. egypt and Qatar, which has been mediating with Hamas.

President Biden was pressed on the progress of these negotiations earlier today. President, is a hostage deal here? I believe so, yes. But even with this optimism and the urgency around a potential deal, the White House also urging caution.

This was Deputy National Security Advisor John Finer speaking to Kristen on the press yesterday. What I can say at this point is that some of the outstanding areas of disagreement in a very complicated, very sensitive negotiation have been narrowed. That I believe we are closer than we have been in quite some time, maybe closer than we've been since the beginning of this process to getting this deal done. But at this point, we really need to adhere to the mantra that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

Negotiations also comes foreign policies having an effect on domestic politics. Our latest NBC News poll shows dismal approval numbers for President Biden as only 34% say that they approve of his handling of the Israel Hamas war. Meanwhile, congressional leaders are looking to muster support to get an aid package for both Israel and Ukraine passed by the end of the year. The Republican led House already passed a solo Israel aid bill, but Ukraine aid has been a priority for the Senate and the White House.

And in a surprise visit to Kyiv today, the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin pledged the U.S. continued support during the meeting with Ukrainian President Zelensky. What happens here in Ukraine not only matches Ukraine, but matches the rest of the world. It's already matching United States America.

And so the United States and our allies, partners will continue to work to get Ukraine the capability that needs to be. And joining me now is our team of reporters. Raf Sanchez is in Tel Aviv, Andrea Mitchell joins me on set and Derek Hagg is on Capitol Hill. So Raf, to you first.

What is the latest on the ground at the Aleshifa hospital and have people been able to evacuate there? So Ryan, hospital officials are saying there are still several hundred people inside of that hospital, if you can call it a hospital anymore, without power, without functioning water. The World Health Organization says it's basically just an empty surrounded building at this point. These are people for the most part who are literally too sick to leave, who are unable to go out.

The good news, as it were, is that earlier today 28 premature babies who were born at Al Shifa Hospital, who were taken out of their incubators when the neonatal ward lost power have crossed over from Gaza through the Rafah, crossing into the relative safety of Egypt. Now Egyptian officials are saying several of them are in pretty serious condition as you can imag having spent the entirety of their short lives in this war zone, they are being flown from the border to Cairo where they will receive intensive treatment in the Egyptian capital. There were 39 babies initially in that neonatal ward. Egyptian Palestinian authorities are saying that eight of them have died over the last week.

But the whole world is really hoping and praying for those surviving that they pull through. These images are heartbreaking that these poor premature babies Now Raf as the fighting continues in northern Gaza, Israel again urging people to go south. Are there brief pauses along the humanitarian corridors continuing? And are people actually heeding that call to evacuate?

So, Ryan, I was in Gaza last week with the Israeli military. We were on the edge of one of the so called humanitarian corridors, watching just this huge stream of humanity going past. Families, parents holding babies. They are heading south.

And what the Israeli military told us is of the community that has stayed in the north. They are responding to warnings about individual neighborhoods. If they haven't responded to the general warning to leave the north, they are finding people responding when they go around with bullhorns in specific neighborhoods saying, look, the fighting is coming to streets near you. You need to get out.

Israel, of course, pointing these humanitarian corridors as a sign of their commitment to getting civilians out of harm's way. But Ryan, for Palestinians, this looks and it feels like forced displacement. This is the deepest Palestinian national trauma. Being forced from their homes by war and not being sure when or if they'll ever be able to go home.

Of course, there is another hospital that has been caught up in the fighting in Gaza. What's the situation there? Is Israel also claiming that Hamas is using this hospital as it for shield for its operations? Yeah.

So this is the Indonesian hospital. It is all the way up in the northern end of Gaza. Footage from today appears to show that hospital surrounded by Israeli tanks. And the Palestinian Authority is saying at least 12 patients have been killed inside the hospital by Israeli fire.

Unlike other hospitals, it is still functioning somewhat. We asked the Israeli military about that earlier. They said their troops came under fire from militants inside of the hospital, that they returned fire, but they denied allegations that they shelved them. Right, okay.

Bob Sanchez live for us there. Thank you, Rob. We appreciate it. So, Andrew, let's turn to you now.

And of course, we saw John Finer meet the Press yesterday talking to Kristen about the status of these negotiations. President Biden did sound optimistic during his remarks today, although they were brief. What are the sticking points to getting a deal done here? The sticking points, according to everyone involved Remain the same.

Israel concerned about the length of the pause, that not be a ceasefire and the ability to verify what is happening with the hostages. Obviously there are the exchanges of the prisoners, so they have to go through names back and forth as well. But it's also getting the aid in it is the hostages. But the US is deeply concerned about getting the aid in, the fuel, the food, the water, the fact that people are being sent south now, and they had been told to go south, but now they're being told that they're going to be attacking the south.

Where are they going to go? There's no exit. So it's trying to open more, you know, more exits, actually. And there's one in the north to Israel that some members of the Senate and, you know, our Hill voices can weigh in on that.

But in talking to senators today, that's also one of the biggest, you know, one of the big sticking points. I think they're very close to it, just judging from the mood music. And it isn't done until it's done, and then it could be done very quickly. It could happen in the middle of the night, obviously, for our purposes.

And if it does happen, how does that change the trajectory of the war? Seems so. The hostages are such a focal point for both sides. The hostages are a focal point for the US and for Israel and some of the other international countries because we know that there's some, some agricultural workers from Thailand, from elsewhere who were workers there.

But the world is seeing the civilian deaths and that is causing a lot of concern in the White House, in the State Department. They've been dissenspied by foreign service officers and within the Catalan as well, that Israel is not seeming to listen to the US about the concerns that were quietly expressed then publicly expressed. You saw that just a week ago from Secretary Blinken and others. And now more openly being expressed criticism of Israel, not the mission, but in the way it's being conducted for the targeting the UN schools that were shelters as well as obviously the hospitals and the hospitals, of course, are a big part of this criticism of the way Israel's conducted this war.

They continue to claim that the Al Chief hospital, perhaps this Indonesian hospital that was under attack today, are just fronts for part of the military operation there. They released a CCT video which we showed earlier that purportedly shows hostages being taken into the hospital. Does that help to bolster Israel's claim? Is there any way to verify that this video is what they say?

There's no way to verify it. And the fundamental criticism that you're hearing from the administration and the Hill and from around the world now, which you know, arguably is completely overwhelming, the empathy that was originally felt around the world for the horrors of Hamas's attacks that started this war. But the fact is that the civilian casualties, the argument goes, are disproportionate to getting one, two, three terrorists from tunnels. Especially since the bombing.

The craters, the 2000 pound bunker buster bombs in the refugee camps early on in the war, the first week of two of the war, that has really changed the dynamic and it's growing pressure and they you know this better than I because you covered every day the Israel money is in jeopardy, which it never would have been in the past. So it's a political problem, but it's a humanitarian problem. And you've got the un, you've got Macron and France calling for a ceasefire. The pressure for ceasefire is going to intensify, which will shorten Israel's ability to conduct the war the way it wants to.

And the argument from the US is that it could be done more tactically to avoid more civilian casualties. Thank you, Adrian. You've perfectly set up. Garrett Haku, we're near to next to talk about the status of that funding on Capitol Hill and Daredevil, I saw that Senator Jeff Merkley has just come out with a very strong statement in favor of a ceasefire.

We're starting to see that becoming certainly from the more progressive end of the Democratic spectrum. How does this all impact the passage of a supplemental bill and the urgency to get this done before Christmas? Well, Andrew laughed at the point that this has become more complicated. It's a good sort of way to think about just how dysfunctional Congress has become when something like AIDS Israel is supported by probably 95% of members in both parties and both chambers who all I get it done and get it done urgently has become such a heavy lift.

I think what you're going to see now is the month of December almost entirely devoted to exactly how to get that aid plus aid to Ukraine across the finish line. From the House perspective, the speaker has fired the first shot by passing that Israel aid bill that is of course linked to cuts to IRS funding. That's not going to go anywhere in the Senate and essentially forces the Senate to come with a counteroffer. They're never particularly good at moving quickly.

This is no exception. And the discussion on the Senate side right now is how do we attach border security policy changes and money to an aid bill to make it palatable enough to even send as A counteroffer back to the House. The attention now, I think over the next month is going to be how do we kind of put enough, you know, sugar on this pill to make it go down in either chamber for something that everybody wants to see done? Is the Israel aid alone enough to get that across the finish line, or is it going to take a much more convoluted process?

Brian, I imagine you probably make the same that I do here, which is unconvoluted. It's always more convoluted, even when it doesn't need to be. But to your point, Gary does seem as though the speaker is really the key negotiator in this process, Right. He's got to be the one to go to the Senate negotiators and say, this is the kind of package I'm willing to put on the floor, Right?

Yeah. And he's also the most unknown operator here in all of this, which makes it a little bit more challenging if he doesn't be the one to kind of outline what he wants. He doesn't have a track record. Speaking for anyone other than Mike Johnson when it comes to trying to decide what could work here.

The other problem is he simply may not know every other opportunity. The House conservative wing has proven how unruly they can be. They had to pull, I think, three funding bills off the floor at various stages over the last couple of weeks. What Johnson says my fly might not ultimately be what flies which could lead to the other.

On the other hand, argument, Ryan, is it might be better for the Senate to just pass what they can pass and kind of go with the tails all this time here. There's nothing more traditional in Washington around the holiday season than the Senate jamming the House on something. Now, with the spending bill out of the way, perhaps it's the supplemental on which the Senate leaves, you know, Cole at the footsteps of the House right before they leave town. Yeah.

Not to get too far in the weeds, but it's not just that easy for the spirit of brain to the floor because the Rules Committee is loaded with these conservatives. And so there's all these roadblocks along the way. So this is a much more complicated process, even if 90% of the Congress supports it here. Hey, thank you so much for that report on Capitol Hill.

And coming up, the kids aren't all right, at least not with President Biden's handling of the Israel Hamas war. We'll dig into the top takeaways from our brand new NBC News poll, including that gaping generational divide and why it's pain. A difficult political reality for Democrats heading into 2024. Plus, Secretary Austin's surprise wartime visit will have details on the Biden administration's latest high profile push to tighten ties between Washington and Kiev, even as additional Ukraine aid hangs in congressional limbo.

But we go to break. We're taking a moment to remember former first lady Rosalyn Carter, who died Sunday in Plains, Georgia. Her husband of 77 years, President Jimmy Carter, has been under hospice care at their home since February. Mrs.

Carter leaves behind a long legacy of humanitarian work, community service and groundbreaking political activism. I don't think I could ever compare myself with Eleanor Roosevelt, but there's so many things that I see that need to be done. I don't, I don't think I have a shadow with controversy. I think Jimmy has a shadow away from controversy.

Jimmy has always told me that if you do anything, you're going to be criticized. The only way not to be criticized is just to be mediocre. Never do anything and but the things I want to work with are the no help program. I've worked with that for a long time, very concerned about it.

I want to work with programs of the elderly. Everybody talks about the elderly, but nothing gets done for them. To me, it's origin. She certainly wasn't mediocre.

Rosalynn Carter was 96 years old. Drive off in a new Hyundai laundry today with $0 down during the Hyundai Advantage sales event. Take advantage of the $1,000 spring drive bonus and lease the 2026 laundry essential for just $73 weekly at 4.99% for 60 months. And you're covered by Elantra's best in class five year new car warranty.

Now that's the Hyundai Advantage. Conditions apply. Offer includes 1% loyalty rate reduction for qualifying customers. Visit hyundaicanda.com or your local deal for details.

Welcome back. As we mentioned, there's some tough numbers for President Biden in a brand new NBC News poll. And a big driver of that is his performance with younger voters. Check this out.

President Biden trails former President Trump in a hypothetical 2024 rematch by two points. It's the first time he's ever trailed Trump in our poll. And Biden also lags behind Trump with voters 18 to 34. Biden was up among those voters by 28 points in our final 2020 NBC News Bowl.

In fact, it was one of his key constituencies in that 2020 victory. President Biden also gets low marks for his handling of the Israel Hamas war with just 34% of all voters approving of his conduct. And that number is even lower among voters 18 to 34, with a whopping 70% disapproving of his handling of the conflict. And joining me now to talk more about this is John Della Volpe.

He's the director of polling at the Harvard Institute of Politics and NBC News contributor who's closely following the voting habits of young Americans. So Donald Trump is leading President Biden among young voters. That is a major reversal from what we saw in 2020. What's your reaction to seeing these numbers less than a year off from Election Day?

And should someone at the White House be hitting an alarm bell right now? Well, listen, yes, I see a lot of polling that shows that a race is close. In some polls, Donald Trump is up by a couple of points among younger voters. And other polls, he's down by a couple of points among younger voters.

Younger voters will not be supporting Donald Trump in a year from now. That I know. That I'm sure of. Also, though, we can't take this lightly.

The White House cannot certainly take this lightly. It's a signal. It's a signal that younger people who are such an important contributor to President Biden's coalition in 2020 are questioning, you know, what they have received in terms of deliverables over the last couple of years. And remember, polls are snapshots and not movies.

I think over the course of the next 11 and a half months, we'll see a campaign which is a movie where a billion dollars will be spent reminding younger people of the many accomplishments from the Biden administration. Comparing Biden, President Biden to, to the alternative. I'm not convinced based upon crossouts of a couple hundred people that the president actually losing the youth vote to Donald Trump. Is it really not so much a concern for the president about losing the youth vote as much as it is that these young voters just decide to stay home Election Day.

Yeah. So there's a couple different aspects of this which are important. Right. Number One is in 2018 and 2020, and for many races in 2022, we saw historic levels of youth participation.

Part one, the second President Biden received 60% of that vote in 2020, second only to Donald to Barack Obama in 2008. So the combination of high turnout as well as high support for Democrats are the key. You have to have both parts of that equation working. So it's both a question of making sure that young people turn out and that they choose basically participate in the two party system here, choosing Democrat or Republican and not One of the myriad of independent candidates of which there are quite a few to pick from.

Our poll also has young voters disapproving the president handling the Israel Hamas war by a pretty big margin. Do you think that this is contributing to the drag on his support with young voters? Yeah, I think unlike such a good horse race, these numbers have been pretty consistent from poll over poll over poll. And yet roughly, you know, a fifth to a quarter approved, which means the solid majority disapprove of that.

And I think this is an era where foreign policy does matter. We know that, you know, the president honeymoon is interest by Afghanistan in 2021. And we know now also that younger people, you know, have a fundamental different perspective regarding the Israel Hamas war than their parents and their grandparents. And they prioritize, as we can see in these numbers, polls, they prioritize protecting civilians.

They're sickened by what happened October 7th, but they also prioritizing the innocent Palestinians on the other side. And they're telling us at this point that they hypothesize as much for the Israeli people as they do the Palestinian people. All right, John, thank you for putting it in context for us. We appreciate it.

Let's talk to our panel about it now. Join me on Saturday America, who's a national political reporter for the Messenger. Juan Tolliver is a Democratic strategist and NBC News political analyst. And of course the great Republican strategist Matt Gorman, One of your great tools.

Matt hasn't been on the table for a while. Welcome you back. Instant regret. I got you.

All right. So Dan, there's a job approval rating for president according to this bullet, 40%. His handling of the economy, foreign policy, these marks are all among his lowest. Is this the bottom or could things get worse for the president in terms of his reaction homes?

I think there is some belief inside the Democratic Corbett that this is the bottom. Given what was said about the Israel Hamas war, how that is dragging down younger voters, I think there's a difference in how people look at this. Democrats look at this inside Biden world and outside Biden world and outside Biden world that these are serious issues. It could impact Democrats who are running for offices, not only for Senate and House, but down ballot races as well.

If this is a drag on Democrats broadly, there's a sense inside Bidenworld that this is a snapshot in time. This will change. There's a belief that foreign policy will not be the thing that decides this election, that it will be issues more close to home, abortion, guns, the economy, et cetera and Bidenworld thinks that they can win on those this Thanksgiving week. I think there are two things that Biden's thankful for.

It's Trump. He's got his running against Trump and time that we're about 11 months out. Yeah, we're 11 months out. Those are the things that he's thankful for.

That's a risk for them. Is not going to dominate this election given this situation in the world. It wasn't too long ago that Joe Biden was picked to join Barack Obama's tickets because of his more policy credit. Are you surprised that this has become a drag for him?

Not on this specific issue because we've seen that generational divide with young people, millennials and Gen Z really breaking apart from older individuals and voters in this country. So I'm not surprised by that number. What I was surprised by and happy that John get it back was Trump will not walk away with a margin on the youth voters in 2024. Now what I am concerned about though, for the Biden administration is the lack of energy, the lack of joy and excitement around voting because we have seen Youth voters in 2022, in 2020 flex this big muscle that shows their political power.

But I fear some of them will stay home because they're like, my life hasn't really improved. I'm still struggling and on top of that I have to pay some loans. An act of the Biden campaign 8 about this over the weekend. And they acknowledge that this is a problem and they also acknowledge that they're working on it.

Is that important. They can't just assume that these young voters are going to come around nothing for granted. That is my position, Biden campaign and they have to get out there and fight for every single vote. I know that the campaign made a conscious decision to not have Biden on the trail in 2023.

They might be second guessing that. What I do hope they're second guessing is this focus on digital over in person organizing on the ground because you need to meet these young people where they are. The president needs to speak to them and learn from them instead of positive vision that they can get behind. So is this open for Republicans, especially when it comes to foreign policy?

Because is the Republican position when it comes to conflicts like the one in Israel in line with the rest of the electorate? I think for most of the electorate it's kind of uniting when it's very pro Israel. What I would look at is how the Democratic Party's becoming far less pro Israel, especially younger voters. When you look at some of those pro Palestinian voices in the party.

They've been elected for 20. I mean also look at what was trending last week on TikTok, which is the most go to news source of folks under 35 says the spyware Chinese accused it was a solid Latin letter to America. And so I mean like you have to consider what is being told on these massive platforms. And on your question about whether the White House, they have beat back some of those things that you saw the daughter, you saw the White House that same out on that.

I mean they're clearly aware of this and worried about it. You know, whether they're going to outwardly say we're worried about poll right now, whether that is another question. Well, let's talk a bit more about this poll and I want to walk you through something that's interesting. It says that Trump narrowly leads Biden head to head.

But both Biden and Trump are losing to a generic opponent, which means anybody at the table could potentially win a race for president if we were up against Joe Biden or Donald Trump. I just, I'm shocked to see how weak both of these potential nominees are down. It is why a lot of pundits and people who study this think that people are going to decide this election are so called double haters. People who hate both candidates and have concerns about both candidates.

It's the reason that both candidates kind of need each other at this moment, that there's Biden who needs the unpopularity of Trump and vice versa. Trump needs Biden to be in this position. So he's not where he was in 2020. He's not seen as the alternative to what was an unpopular Trump administration.

These double haters, people who have concerns about both candidates are likely going to be people who decide this election and those are the folks who are up for rap. Isn't that a concern for Democrats? When you talk about joy and wanting to go past the ball, if you're looking at two options that you don't really like is I don't even feel like going out. Sadly, this is what I'm already hearing from some youth voters that they don't see a viable option here.

And I think they're also saying that with consideration for some of the third party candidates who are on the ticket. Look, I think Joe Manchin is probably looking at these numbers like, oh, here's my open. No, it's not, I promise. Another old white dude is not the answer here.

Right. Right. So Matt, you just work for a Republican presidential campaign for years that I'm sure they do because they follow your career very closely. You work for Senator Tim Scott who just stepped down.

You look at these numbers. Senator Scott said multiple times on the campaign troll that Trump can't win a general election. Do you still think he's right? Certainly at this point in time, the polls show that that's not the case anymore.

It's not just this one, Polly. The times come out, multiple polls have shown this. And look, I think this also hurts an argument that Tim Scott can't make this anymore. But how many times on the trail have other people pitch themselves, I'm the Republican who can win.

It's a lot harder to make that argument now than it was a month ago. A lot harder. And so I think when you look at this, you know, maybe this change in six months maybe gets worse, maybe gets better. But right now it's a lot harder to say than once.

Let me tell you that man. So you make the argument it's 50 50, but what if it's Nikki Haley? Could the numbers be different? I mean she might be able to make the argument.

I got a better chance. I mean she's could be saved in a large, larger margin. And also if she's in the ballot or even Sanders, you're talking about bigger gains in the Senate keeping the House. It is a different scenario if anyone else in the ballot has post Trump.

So when the president joked about his 81st birthday, which is of course today, I want to play a clip of how he joked about it. I just want you to know it's difficult turning 60 difficulties. He's 81. So he turned 60 a long time ago.

Is this the way I handle this? Did you kind of joke and leaving the fact that you're old and understanding that that's a concern voters have if he repeats it right, the more people hear it, the more people can see the juxtaposition of him showing a degree of strength on the campaign trail compared to Trump who we see week after week rambling at different microphones across the country then help. But again, it's not the only move. Where's that positive vision?

Is there anyone year old president like how are you going to excite people again post 2024? I want you one other thing from our poll and it's the net favorable entities that we pulled beyond just Donald Trump or Joe Biden. Look at this. Taylor Swift had a naturally 24%.

Israel does pretty well in this. Beyonce does pretty well. Ukraine does. Everyone else has a negative favorability rating.

And I should also point out that even Taylor Swift is not, does not have a favorable ring of over 50%, which take that for what it's worth. I mean, it seems as though people are just unhappy with everything. You know, if you're running in an environment like this, Dan, how you turn people's opinion around, I think the last thing I take from that is that Taylor Swift and Beyonce should be the presidential ticket next year. But it's hard.

I mean, when there's a lot of negativity after that does not suit an income. People want to be happy. People want to be confident in their lives. And when there's that level of negativity, it's a difficult environment for an incumbent to run in.

And it's a different environment for Democrats running in general because they're not the party of change like they were in 2020. In 2020, they were going to be the change from Donald Trump. This is a totally different election for them. And that is something that Biden campaign is going to have to answer for the next couple of months.

So maybe she can't get on the ballot, but Taylor Swift, the potential late entry write in campaign. I've got a campaign. Sorry. I'm sorry.

I appreciate it. Up next, a new legal challenge in the Trump trials will get an update on what exactly went down in court today as Trump's lawyers pushed to get a federal gag order in the special counsel's election interference case thrown out. You're watching MEET THE Press now. Welcome back.

It appears a gag order against Donald Trump in his federal election interference case may survive an appeal. Earlier today, a federal appeals court grilled lawyers for the former president who argued that gag order violated his constitutional rights. The judges did not issue a decision yet, but questioned Trump's attorney about the claim that the former president's speech can't be curtailed at all. They did, however, signal that the gag order could be narrowed.

NBC News justice and intelligence correspondent Kendalling joins me now. So can I explain what was the Trump team's basis for this appeal? So they argued that this was an unconstitutional order that violated the First Amendment. This is prior restraint on speech.

And there's a high bar for that in our country, particularly for somebody who's running for president. And they said that the prosecution didn't make the case, that the things that Trump was saying had led to violence, that there was any impact at all, really, and that they argued that he should be free to criticize his political opponents, to criticize the prosecution. But it did not appear that these, this Three judge panel, all pointed by Democratic presidents, didn't appear that they bought those arguments, although they did also closely question the government lawyer about these free speech issues. Receptive at all to these arguments?

Well, they acknowledge that there is a First Amendment issue here. And it's no accident that the ACLU has waited on Donald Trump's side here because there is a concern about chilling political speech. But what the judges seem to suggest is that, you know, a trial judge has to be able to prevent a criminal defendant from, say, threatening witnesses or trying to tamper with jurors. And they were posing hypotheticals to Trump's lawyers to try to get him to, you know, sort of set the parameters of this First Amendment argument.

He wasn't Biden. He refused to give any ground because he knows that this is most likely to end up in the Supreme Court. And Jack Smith, the special counsel, was in the courtroom, and that's not normally, he's not going to enter a courtroom for a hearing like this. How significant is that?

Well, he's been at a lot of the big courtroom showdowns. He was there to support for his people. And this is, this is an important one because Jack Smith personally is being threatened by people after being called insane and a lunatic and corrupt by former President Donald Trump. And if the stag order is kept in place, how could they narrow it?

How could it change from where it currently stands? So, like, for example, it uses the word targeting. It prevents Donald Trump from targeting certain categories of people. There was some discussion about what does that even mean and could we be more precise in the language?

They're trying to give Trump room to criticize people without violating, you know, witness tampering or jury tampering. Thank you for being. Appreciate it. As Trump slayers continue to wage their flights and core, Trump himself is continuing on the campaign trail, visiting the southern border yesterday to hammer home the issue that helped get him elected in the first place.

Immigration. NBC News campaign in bed. Jake Trayor has more. Former President Donald Trump back at the border this Sunday, his first visit in more than two years.

By his side, Texas Governor G. Who endorsed the GOP front runner, praising Trump's border policies. Trump quickly attacking the Biden administration. We're going to take over that border and we're going to make it.

We have the most secure border in our history. Now we have the most unsecure border in the history. Echoing frustration his supporters across the country have been voicing for months. We need to secure that border.

It's getting ridiculous. I think President Trump is strong and we need help in our border. And that's why we're in the first place. The latest NBC News poll shows similar sentiments.

Nationally. Overwhelmingly, participants favor southern border security funding over military aid, Israel, Ukraine, or even humanitarian aid to Gaza. When he ran for President 2016, Trump made border security a top issue. Build that wall.

Build that wall. Who's going to pay for the wall? How? And made big promises.

We have 1,000 miles that we need. In reality, it was us taxpayers who bear the brother cost, not Mexico. Ultimately, under a Trump administration, only 453 miles of border wall were addressed, most of which were reinforcements. Only 47 miles of new barrier were added under Trump.

But still, residents here say they felt more secure back then. As soon as this administration took over, you, you've accidentally drive to the border here in emerging account, you know, and as soon as you get there, there's flooded people, too much crowding. It's an unsafe situation. Angie Garcia lives in the border town of Edinburgh, Texas.

She's grateful for Trump's attention. People really need to take a look down here in the valley and see what the local border residents here are going through. We have been inundated with this, with the chaos that is going on right now now on the border. Border Patrol agent Myra Banks shares that concern.

She's been on the job 18 years and says this is the worst she's ever seen. Part of the border is wide open. It's wide open to have hard narcotics come through when we're not able to, to be out in our areas patrolling as we should be. And under a Trump administration.

That felt different. It did indeed. It felt very different. For Trump.

It's familiar turf, talking tough on immigration, building a narrative with or without building a wall. Jake Trailer, NBC News, Edinburgh, Texas. All right, Jake, thanks. After the break, we're taking a deep dive into how money is changing the game for student athletes and why Washington might have to get involved in the new world of college sports.

That story's next. You're watching with the press now. Welcome back. Thanksgiving week usually marks the unofficial end to the college football regular season.

And while many top players usually announce their intentions to leave college early to go pro, but several potential pros are actually staying in school thanks to new rules that allow them to make even more money in college than in the NFL. In the latest episode of Meet the Press Reports, Chuck Todd looks at this new world for college athletes. He spoke with Reggie Bush, a star college running back at USC who had to leave early just to make a living. There's a narrative of you're supposed to be broke, you're supposed to be struggling, you're supposed to be in a dungeon to wee hours of the night, you know, grinding, working on, you know, midterms should be thankful for the scholarships.

And also it's a fair trade. Your education is a fair trade for scholarship. So is it. Though we now know that's not true.

After Bush joined the New Orleans Saints, the NCAA launched an investigation that found that a sports marketing company hoping to sign Bush as a client once he turned pro, had provided him with benefits and paid for a 3,000 square foot home in San Diego for his parents to live in. Among those other benefits was a suit and a limousine ride to the ceremony where Bush accepted his Heisman Trophy. The NCAA harshly punished usc, banning them from bowl games for two years, revoking scholarships and retroactively forfeiting a year's worth of wins. Faced with the likelihood that he would be stripped of the Heisman Trophy, Reggie Bush voluntarily returned it.

We didn't know any better. We just knew that we're here, we're playing college football. This is the opportunity of a lifetime. We're living out our dreams, but this is not, not the final stop for us.

This is just a springboard to get us to the next level, to be able to make money and to be able to take care of our families and play the highest level. And joining me now to talk more about this is Chuck Todd. So, Chuck, let's talk about the rise of his name, image and likeness deals. And do they essentially render the NCAA useless at this point?

They do. And in fact, it was a court of law that rendered the NCAA useless. Right. There was this rule that governed whether an NCAA athlete could make essentially make a living outside of sports.

And this got challenged in court and the court struck down the NCAA law. So what happened is you had essentially a tapestry of state laws came up and each state has a slightly different way that they had legalized the ability of the student, that athlete, to make money off of their name, image and likeness. And the reason why are we covering the story, Ryan? Well, is because the only way to bring some sanity back to this system and maybe some fairness is there has to be a federal law that governs sort of the interaction between these and frankly, a federal law that protects students from these collectives.

If the collectives back out of deal, it's sort of in the same way you'd need the ftc, you know, make sure the contract you signed with NBC is followed through upon this is A similar situation here. And do you think there's any scenario where the NCAA just hands the authority over for particular college football and college basketball to these collectives? Is that something that happened down the road? Well, I think what you're going to see is, and I also, in this episode with press sports senators Cory Booker, Richard Blumenthal, and it's Jerry Moran, these are the three senators that are essentially writing the law in conjunction really with some input from a lot of the conferences and student athletes.

And they want to create sort of a public private corporation. There's a corporation that oversees Amtrak, for instance, and it's a congressional chartered corporation. It would be a similar situation, a sort of a private entity that Congress would create that would be the governing body to these nil collectives. Now, the question, of course, becomes, okay, can you, can you limit.

You put some almost like a salary cap, if you will. Right. And I don't know if you'll be able to pull that off. But one thing Congress can mandate is that all nil collectors have to abide by Title 9 rules, which of course means 50, 50 in money you spend on men's athletics and women's athletics.

And I think if you do that, then you'll see a situation where a lot of athletic votes rise in both genders. You know, what's interesting is that the current NCAA president is a guy by the name of Charlie Parker, who of course we knew as the governor of Massachusetts at point. How does his political background make him uniquely situated to address this issue right now? So I want to get tuned into the whole full episode.

I also have to sit down with Charlie Baker, and I asked him that what's the big difference between being a governor, having talked about state legislature, had, you know, 100, 200 odd mayors, but ready for this statistic in the NCAA is that there's 168 committees within the structure of the NCAA, which he oversees. The point is it's more byzantine than what you cover, Ryan. That is more committees than Congress. And we think Congress is dysfunctional.

Look, this is a mess. I think, you know, you're going to see a couple of large scenarios. You know, he would like to just take the top 60 schools, put them in one category so that he can Govern the other 950 schools. Right.

That are out, out there, Congress. And he's begging Congress for their help to do this. So actually, this is one of the things, in a bipartisan way, Congress will do, because ultimately, I think everybody has a interest in Congress to see their local college team have a fair shot at it. And we talk about football and basketball, but some of these other sports are just exploding in popularity.

Thousands and tens of thousands of people go to a volleyball game in Nebraska like this. Definitely something that needs to be regulated and reined in before it gets too out of control, Chuck. And that's a topic. We look forward to the full report.

It's always good to see you. Thank you for joining us. You can catch more of Chuck's reporting and stream the entire episode of Meet the Press reports. Student athletes, college sports and nil.

Right now via peacock or YouTube and silicon I'll talk to a member of the Ukrainian parliament about the future of the war against against Russia and Washington's relations with Keith as Ukraine braces for another brutal winter on the battlefield. You're watching MEET THE Press reports now. Welcome back to Secretary Lloyd Austin meeting previously unannounced visit to Ukraine Today meeting with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky and senior Ukrainian officials, he publicly reaffirmed the United States support for Ukraine. Secretary Austin's visit also serves as a high profile push for aid to Ukraine back at home as efforts to send money and weapons remain stalled in Congress.

However, congressional leaders tell NBC News that lawmakers are aiming to pass an aid package for both Ukraine and Israel by Christmas. I'm joined now by Kara Brick. She is a member of the parliament in Ukraine. So Secretary Osak is in your country today for that unannounced visit.

What can you tell us about the meetings he was in with senior leadership today and what does the Ukrainian government tell him about the state of the war? Hello, Ryan. Thank you so much for having me and thank you for keeping focus on Ukraine. We really need it and we appreciate it.

Well, Austin's visit to Ukraine is important on three levels. The first one is of course, military level because we really need the support that was announced. It's $100 million of support, including ammunition, different kinds of weapons for the preparation for the winter. Second level is a political one because we need this sign of support and that is still a priority being being sent to all the other politicians and leaders in the whole world.

But it is also an important moral boost for Ukraine because the closer we get to the end of the year we are with Russians attack on our infrastructure on how we would survive the next, the second winter since the full civilization. And of course, this support that is stalled in the US Congress right now is a matter of concern. So this is really important because Ukraine also can show our preparations for the winter and share the plans that our military have for going on with the military activities during the winter. And you mentioned that you are concerned about congressional support for additional aid.

And you know, our reporting says that it's going to be really crucial to get this package wrapped up before Christmas. Would be very concerning for you and your fellow members of Parliament if Congress is unable to push the deal before the Christmas holiday. We are all, we are extremely worried since the moment of speaker being reelected in the Congress because for us, every single day is a matter of lives. Every single day are not receiving enough of the ammunition and additional military support, it means we're losing lives.

So it's not just one week here, one week there. It's the way how we calculating our days. It's how many more lives we will lose if we will not get the support in time. This is why get okay, we are having some technical difficulties in our conversation with here who's of course in Ukraine right now.

So we're going to instead turn to the White House where the holiday season did kick off today with not one but two time honored traditions. President Biden pardoned two lucky turkeys this morning. Liberty and Bell, of course, named for Philadelphia's iconic landmark. The Birds, who were the National Turkey Federation chairman says enjoy honey, crisp apples and Taylor Swift, of course, share a room at the Willard Hotel before their visit to the White House.

This was Biden's third turkey pardon and the 76th anniversary of the event. But before Thanksgiving festivities are fully underway, the White House is already looking ahead to the next holiday. First Lady Jill Biden received the official White House Christmas tree this afternoon. Standing at nearly 19ft tall, tall, the tree is going to be the centerpiece of the Blue Room's annual holiday decor.

And it was quite the event out of the White House. Of course, the White House Christmas tree lighting is expected for later, probably the beginning of December. So they're planned for that. And of course, the turkey pardon, an annual tradition that happens every year at the White House.

I've been to one before. It is an interesting event. You can see those turkeys there. They end up going to a farm, I believe, in Northern Virginia where they live out their days just getting fatter and fatter.

But never will they be under the gun to end up on someone's plate for dinner. So we're happy for those turkeys. And that does it for us this hour. I'll be back tomorrow with more MEET THE PRESS now, maybe even more turkey coverage if you're lucky.

NBC News NOW coverage still continues with Hallie Jackson right now. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention. They made a life together.

Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Matiewicz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dayline. Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.