Meet the Press NOW — October 16

If it's Monday, millions in Gaza brace for an Israeli ground invasion with hundreds of Americans trapped in the region faced with a worsening humanitarian emergency as Israel and its allies face the threat of an even larger multi front war with Iran backed militant groups. Plus gag orders. Trump trials and the campaign trail. A federal judge orders new restrictions on the former president as he hits the trail in Iowa, barring him from making statements about potential witnesses or for conducting a, quote, pre trial smear campaign against special counsel Jack Smith.

And Congressman Jim Jordan flips a key holdout. And some Republicans start to fall in line behind his bid for speaker as House Republicans hope to put an end to the leadership chaos of the last two weeks that has paralyzed their party in Washington. Welcome to Media Depressed Now. I'm Garrett Hake.

We're following some new developments in war between Israel and Hamas. Israel remains poised for ground invasion of Gaza in response to last week's deadly terror attack from Hamas amid escalating fear and uncertainty for civilians, including Americans caught in the crossfire with many trying to get out. This was the scene at the Rafah border crossing earlier today as people desperately try to evacuate Gaza from the south into Egypt. At this hour, that crossing appears to remain close to people with no clear indication of if or when it will reopen.

But this afternoon, our NBC News team captured this video of field trucks apparently exiting Gaza and heading to Egypt, suggesting there is some movement across it. Still. All this creating more confusion for The up to 600American citizens trapped in Gaza after US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Palestinian officials said yesterday that the crossing would be open. But today, according to local accounts and NSC spokesman John Kirby, there has been little to no movement for people trying to evade.

There are thousands and thousands of people now that have left the north part of Gaza and are trying to get down south of that Rafah gate. We want to make sure that they can get out. I wish I had better results to talk to you guys about today, but we're still, we're still really, really hard work on it. Egypt, Israel and Hamas all deny there's any ceasefire agreement to allow foreign nationals to get out or for desperately needed civilian aid to get in.

A New York resident inside Gaza described the fear for those stuck in Rafah, a situation threatening my life and everybody lives. You can't be safe here. The uncertainty of the border comes with the humanitarian situation. Gaza is worsening.

UN says more than 1 million people, half of the territory's population, have now been displaced with extremely limited access to water, to electricity and to other vital supplies. And as hospitals warn that they're on the verge of collapse. Israel's army says it's striking Hamas targets in Gaza. But as the strikes continue, more devastating images.

Rescuers digging through rubble searching for survivors. Israelis, meanwhile, remain in a state of high alert under constant threat of bombardment. Earlier today, the Israeli parliament briefly evacuated as air raid silence blared in Jerusalem. And in Tel Aviv, Secretary of State Antony Blinken has had to seek shelter twice, once while he was meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his war council.

Speaking with Secretary Blinken today, the Israeli Minister of Defense warned of a long and brutal war ahead. Mr. Secretary, this will be a long war. The price will be high.

But we are going to win for Israel, for the Jewish people and for the values that both countries believe in. And that war faces threats of expansion with Israel and Hezbollah continuing to trade fire and its Israeli troops head to the Lebanese border. All told, the death toll has risen more than 2,800 in Gaza and more than 1400 in Israel following last week's attack by Hamas. And the number of hostages believed to be held in Gaza has risen.

Israel said they notified the families of 199 hostages. And moments ago, Hamas claimed it was holding between 200 and 250 hostages. At least 30Americans have been killed and 13 are unaccounted for. Joining me now are team of reporters Elson Barber at the Israel Gaza border.

Josh Letterman is in Haifa, Israel and NBC News Tehran. Pirari chief Ali Abuzi is covering Iran angle and NBC News chief Washington correspondent and chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrew Mitchell joins me here on set. Ellison, I'll start with you. Are we getting any sense of when this ground attack could begin?

What's the level of urgency tonight surrounding an offensive there? We have been in this area, we're to the north of the Israel Gaza border for days now. The last three days we have been here throughout the night, literally from when the sun goes down until about 7am in the morning local time. We've seen massive amounts of military equipment, military tanks moving in the area.

We'll oftentimes hear the kind of thunderous boom of artillery off in the distance towards Gaza. But the last three nights, apart from some movement around us, some drones overhead, the sound of fighter jets, things like that, we haven't seen a massive shift or change. In fact, we've been talking amongst ourselves, our team, the last couple of days. We've talked about how in the night it almost feels eerily quiet at times.

I spoke to one IDS soldier this morning about 8am local time as we were leaving for a bit of a gap and asked him how things are going. We've seen him in this area the last couple of days and he said we are preparing. It appears that they have everything they possibly need at the Israel Gaza to launch the next phase of this war which they have made quite clear will be much more expansive than what we have seen so far. So far they mostly focused on airstrikes with the exception of a few raids that the IDF says has taken place inside of Gaza.

Next we expect to see this escalate by land a full ground assault. There are over 300,000 reservists as of 4am this morning the IDF said that have been called out. Israel GAZA BORDER it seems like it's just a question of when someone gives that green light to say go. We saw late last night some tanks in this area move into a small sort of formation into the direction of Gaza.

But they know activity after that they sort of set up, they moved and they were there. But the equipment, we see it fly by here all the time headed towards the direction of Gaza. Garrett and Ellison Ho's watching the fate of these hostages. I guess now we think there's at least 199 hostages in Gaza, maybe as many as 250.

Talk about the state of talking if there are any meaningful talks to secure their release. And what can you share about this new reporting that perhaps Hamas has offered to release or trade some of these hostages who are not Israelis. Yeah, so spokesperson with Hamas's military wing in sort of a video press conference today was talking about the hostages they have. He gave that rough number you mentioned.

They say they have between 200, 250 people inside of Gaza. He claims that about 22 of them have been killed because of Israeli airstrikes. When a spokesperson of the IEF was asked about that in the over nine hours, they really didn't go into any details and they said this is a sensitive subject. We can't confirm anything in terms of having of the hostages died.

And then cautioned reporters to take anything that comes out of Gaza from Hamas with a large grain of salt. But look, Hamas is saying that they would be open to releasing foreign nationals that are in their custody if their conditions were met. They didn't specify what those conditions are. And they also said that they're not entirely sure who or what nationalities they have held hostage.

They said we didn't verify everyone's identity when we took them in. So there's a lot of Moving parts. That and a lot of things that are still unknown with the hostage situation. As you touch on, you have 199 is the number from the Israeli military.

And the language they're using is saying 199. Families of abductees have been contacted, but the Hamas is saying possibly up to 250. There's a lot of unknown in that. The Red Cross, the international Red Cross conference on Thursday, they said that they have been in contact with both Israel and Hamas about the hostage situation.

And they said they have had since Thursday daily sustained contact with Hamas about the hostage situation. Israel now they are not negotiating with Hamas at all. Again, they have said they conducted some raids into some pockets of Gaza trying to gather intelligence as it relates to those hostages here. One thing, when you talk to people in this area, they're frustrated taken this long to go in and try and get those hostages out.

Because remember when we're talking about this grouping of civilians based on families who come out and said, look, my family member is missing. We believe there are hostages inside of Gaza that are as young as nine months old. I spoke to one man as a commander with the IDF yesterday and looked at me, and he's 32 years old. I and many other men my age, I would walk into Gaza today and say, take me.

Let the elderly, let the women, let the children go. This is such a sensitive subject for Israelis. But there is also frustration that it's been so many days and there's still so much unknown and no one has really seen to be releasing any meaningful large number, if you will, a nightmare scenario, I think, about the parents of those kids. I want to bring in Josh Lorman.

Now, Josh, the other effort here that we're all watching across the globe is to get foreign nationals, including Americans, out of Gaza. It all appears stalled. What do we know about why this gateway, the Rafah crossing, remains closed? It feels like there's a lot of conflicting information out there about this issue.

Yeah, it's been really hard to dissect what's actually been going on with this crossing over the last 48 hours or so. Garrett. The idea here seems to have been that there would be a deal in which the crossing would be open in both directions, that foreign nationals would be allowed to go out of Gaza into Egypt, and in exchange, humanitarian aid would be allowed to flow into the Gaza Strip. That is what we heard as of last night from a Palestinian representative who was present at that Rafah border crossing.

But in order to move civilians out and aid groups in, you really need to have a ceasefire. You can't have active Israeli airstrikes in the same area. And earlier today we heard both from Hamas and Israel that apparently there was no agreement for a ceasefire. The Israelis have seemed to want some type of evidence that those hostages that Ellison was talking about are actually alive before they agree to anything conciliatory, before they agree to a ceasefire.

So right now, despite the best hopes from the us, from Egypt, from others, that there would start to be some type of movement at the border crossing, we just have not seen it other than the Palestinians and foreigners who are now gathering at that border on the Gaza side, hoping desperately to get out. And Joshua should say Amir and Haifa. Part of the reason is there was a ship there organized by the US to evacuate Americans from Israel. Is there still this rush of Americans looking to evacuate on the Israeli side?

There is. And we should be clear that while it is not like the Gaza Strip, which is blockaded, you can't get out. You can get out of Israel. The border with Jordan is open.

The airport is still open. But remember the big US Airlines, Delta, American, United, none of them are flying in and out of Israel. So we did see a large number of Americans today going to the port Haifa just behind me, to get on ship organized by the US government to take them first to Cyprus and then they'll book their own flights home. And the State Department says it is continuing to have charter flights, that it is running out of Ben Gray International Airport at least through Thursday, as soon as Americans try to get out of the country.

All right, Josh Sherman, thank you for that reporting. I want to bring in Ali Ruzi now. Ali, the concern continues to bubble tonight about this idea that this could become a multi front war with Israel and Hezbollah exchanging fire across the Lebanese border. Just what would it take for those skirmishes to turn into something much more serious?

So the Iranians have kept going on and on about that. If Israeli troops put boots on the ground in Gaza, that would then expand the theater of war. These warnings have been coming from officials across the spectrum in Iran. And the person who's been speaking most about it is Iran's Foreign Minister, Amir Abdollah.

He's been on a whistle stop tour of this region. He's been meeting with what the Iranians axis of resistance, that's Hezbollah figures, Hamas figures, militant figures in Syria and the Assad government to make sure that they are all on the same page if there's a ground incursion into Gaza. And quite interestingly, Garrett, he was just speaking on State TV about an hour ago and he had quite a couple of quite interesting messages. He turned around and he said that if Iran doesn't defend Gaza right now, then Iran is going to have to defend itself against Israeli bombs on Iranian soil.

So he's definitely alluding to the fact that Iran needs to be involved in this and if they don't stamp their authority on this, they could then be facing Israeli troops somewhere down the line. Also interested in Garrett and I can't say this is for sure, this is what the Foreign Minister is claiming. He's claiming that he has received a message from the US and he says that the US has asked Iran to show restraint and not expand the theater of war. And he says that they returned a message to the US saying that they don't want to expand the theater of war.

But restraint is only one sided and it's important to note Hezbollah takes all of its orders from Iran. Well, I mean you know this far better than I but you know, St. Cout on the ground as a red line seems to be a red line almost certain to be crossed. Are we seeing anything in the region to back up that kind of talk from Iran?

I can't imagine this stops without Israelis crossing into Gaza. No, I mean I think, I think that's the conventional wisdom that they are going to cross in. And there has been a lot of saber rattling from Iran and from Iran's proxies. Look, the only thing we've seen so far is a few minor attacks from southern Lebanon into northern Israel shooting some artillery and that's being tit for tat.

That's being containable for now, but that could escalate very quickly or there could be a miscalculation that could tip the balance in a totally different and that would be very hard to put the genie back in the bottle. And don't forget Hezbollah is a much better equipped force than Hamas. They're almost like a military, they're well armed, they've got sophisticated weaponry that the Iranians have given them that would really change the dynamics of the battle. Alright, Ali Razaranan in Tehran.

Thank you Indra Mitchell. We have a lot to talk about. Let's start with Ali's reporting here. This bluster from the Iranians here.

How seriously is Washington taking that? How seriously are the Israelis taking the possibility that they could have a very serious Iran problem here as well? Absolutely seriously. That has been one of the things top of mind as Secretary Blinken has been circling, shuffling back and forth to try to restrain Iran.

Jake Sullivan has been very clear they had back channel communication. So that seems to be in line with what Ali Rivi was just reporting telling them not to open another front, not to have Hezbollah. And Hamas is also a creature of Iran as well. Both are has fallen let loose on that northern border.

The Iranian foreign minister has been shadowing Blinken going around the region as well. He was in Beirut, but then he was in Qatar and other places, you know, talking to Hamas directly in Qatar just as Secretary Blinken was finishing up there talking to leadership. And what was happening to Blinken with Blinken's diplomacy? Now when I walked into the set, they were still in a war cabinet meeting in television for hours with Secretary Blinken.

This is now 11 o' clock after 11 o' clock at night there. How unusual is that? Unprecedented in my experience. Secretary of State sitting all with Prime Minister Netanyahu and all of the defense Mossad idea all and trying to game the American objectives are limit the offensive in terms of the casualties on the ground.

How do you do that? Well, I should say job one hostage recovery, release rescue. And how do you do that if they're in tunnels? The Israelis have been doing strategic special ops.

They started that Friday. I don't know how long that's continued, but they acknowledged it on Friday. Special forces going in, coming out, trying to map where are the hostages. What intelligence do they have?

Do they have human intelligence? Do they have signals intelligence? What are they getting from overhead? What are they getting from all their sources?

This is an opportunity and it's an urgent one for the intelligence agencies which have today acknowledged that they messed up badly. An opportunity to redeem themselves. If they could get some of these people, if not all of these people. Outlets are still alive.

But also limiting the humanitarian crisis because that is becoming a firestorm around the world in the US as well as in Europe. Importantly. So the warning to Israel, you're losing the populations, you're losing the moral authority and you have international legal obligations to get aid in. Well, to that end, what are your sources tell you about what's going on with this Rafah crossing?

This is like the border crossing that the whole world is watching right now. What are you hearing about why it's still closed Every day we are told by the State Department, by Terry Blinken, when he was leaving Egypt after some very difficult talks with the Egyptian leader El sisi yesterday at 11:30 our time, he came out on the tarmac, flying back to Amman in Jordan and said the crossing will open, it will open. And that was after the previous day the state of arm put out a bullet to Americans in Gaza. Go south.

It's going to open, be ready, be nearby. It never opened. The Egyptians never opened it. Egyptians are blaming Hamas on the Hamas side and Israel importantly blaming Israel for bombing it.

You know, a couple last week sometime. Well, you know, just to wrap it up, everybody is blaming everybody else. The aid is not getting in. Now there's a report, the Wall Street Journal just reported that it's going to open tomorrow.

We've been told this every day and we're trying to confirm that it will be American citizens first with their families, then it will be dual citizenship people, then behind them UN and other aid workers in terms of who gets out. But the Americans, the American diplomats in Egypt are not being allowed within 150 miles of that crossing to receive the Americans, process them and help them get going. It's the middle of the night there now. So we'll hope that perhaps by this time tomorrow morning Israeli time will have better news to report.

I suspect you will probably be up late following all of this. Thank you for your report. And before that of course, Ellison Barber, Josh and Elliot Rizzi is a great team across the region. Turning now to the safety and security concerns here home.

American authorities are on alert today after a new warning from FBI Director Chris Wray about an increase in reported threats of both Jewish and Muslim communities. This comes as a six year old Palestinian American boy was killed and his mother critically injured. Police say that their landlord repeatedly stabbed them, targeting them because they're Muslim. But the attack is connected to the ongoing Israel Hamas war.

The Department of Justice has opened a federal hate crimes investigation into this incident. And in a statement, President Biden First Lady Jill Biden said they were shocked and sickened to learn about the murder and that quote, this horrific act of hate has no place in America. Mc Shack Brewster joins me from Joliet, Illinois where the latest on the story. So Shaq, the federal government's opened his hate crimes investigation into the assailant.

We talked a little bit about what we know about the motives. What more you learn there today. Hi there. We learned a lot today from this first initial appearance that we saw earlier this morning.

We saw the 71 year old suspect appear in court for the first time. He was wearing a dark orange jumpsuit, he said and he understood the serious charges that he's facing. Eight of them in total, including first degree murder, attempted murder and two counts of hate crimes. And we also heard from the prosecution as they laid out why they are so Confident that this was an attack based on hate.

They said that this attack that again happened midday Saturday, that based on conversations they had with the mother of this six year old boy who's currently in the hospital, still fighting for her life, though expected to survive, and based on conversations they had with the wife of this suspect, it makes them confident that this was driven by the conflicts going on in the Middle East. Specifically, according to investigators, his wife said that this man became insistent and started listening to conservative talk radio on a regular basis and that he knew his tenants were Palestinian and wanted them out. And that's all what led up to that altercation on Saturday afternoon when investigators say he essentially went to their door, knocked on the door and then began this attack. So investigators making it very clear that this was about religion, they feel like they have the evidence to support that in the judge at least siding with them in this early phase and declining the opportunity for the 71 year old suspect to be released before trial.

Shaq, what's the, what's the reaction been like in the community? I feel like tensions are so high everywhere. I know I talk about it with folks in my neighborhood. Look at social media, I mean, talk to me about what you're hearing for folks in the community there seeing this violence show up in their neighborhood.

Yeah, so many different emotions there. I think one is heartbreak. I mean, this was a six year old child who was stabbed 26 times. We learned in court today that the knife was still in his abdomen as he was taken to the hospital when he wasn't breathing and was unresponsive.

But you talk about the tension that has been in this community since the start of the war. We're talking about protests that we've been seeing both pro Palestinian protests and protests in support of Israel after the attack by Hamas. So those protests, those demonstrations definitely continue. But the sense of heartbreak and the implications of what you're seeing overseas, that is definitely hit home for a lot of people.

One thing that we heard from his father through a translator today, the six year old boys being late to rest today, they're having his funeral and he has a burial later this evening. But one thing that we heard from the father is that this is a boy who's, who liked to play basketball, who liked soccer, that he was the light in everyone's life. One message that he said is that yes, he wants accountability for the death of his son, but he also wants to see peace. And that's a message that I think should be lasting from, from this, from this death in this really devastating scene, really gruesome details that we heard in the courtroom earlier today.

Garrett. Yeah, it's heartbreaking stuff. All right, Chad Grooster, thank you for covering it. And coming up, trying to escape a war zone, I'll talk to a former Israeli ambassador about emergency efforts to evacuate civilians from Gaza as Israel digs in for a long and potentially brutal war against Hamas.

But first, crisis in Gaza. Millions of civilians are facing severe shortages of food, water, shelter and medical care with virtually nowhere to go. I'll talk to a Gaza resident from inside a refugee camp about the situation on the ground there next. You're watching me depress now.

Welcome back. Gaza is dealing with rapidly escalating humanitarian crisis as Israel continues to target Hamas while gearing up for that potential ground war in response to those brutal terror attacks in southern Israel. The devastation inside Gaza, which is governed by Hamas, combined with the Israeli military's orders to evacuate south, have already displaced more than a million Palestinians. According to the UN that's nearly half of the total population of the Gaza Strip.

And with Gaza's borders effectively closed, there's just nowhere for all those people to go. The images inside Gaza are harrowing. This video shows victims of Israeli are striking rushed to a hospital in the south, the second largest one in Gaza. Palestinian doctors have warned that thousands more people could die of overwhelmed hospitals don't get more fuel and more supplies.

As part of Israel's siege on Hamas, it also shut off water and electricity to all of Gaza. Israel now says the water is back on, but many Gazans can't access it without the electricity to run their pumps. I'm joined now from Gaza by Fahi Abdou Shamalla. He's a Gaza outreach associate for the independent journalism organization called Just Vision.

And Fahi, we can't get there. Be our eyes and ears here. Tell us first how your family's doing. I know you've got three young kids and talk a little about what you've experienced there just over the past few days.

All right? Yeah, it's tough to get connection here. Obviously, if we were trying to talk to somebody from a refugee camp in Gazer. Give us just a second here to see if we can get Fadi's audio back.

Fadi, do we have you now? All right, I think we're probably going to run out of signal here to get him up, unfortunately. All right, Fadia Abu Shamala, we will try to get you back. Meanwhile, Israeli officials say the air strikes in Gaza won't stop until Hamas is driven out of power completely On Friday, we reported on a civilian convoy being struck while traveling south in Gaza.

HAMAS officials say 70 people were killed in the strike, mostly women and children. Those officials are blaming Israel for the attack, and Israel is denying any responsibility for the strike. An IDF spokesperson telling the NBC News that the convoy was not targeted, suggesting instead that the incident may have been caused by some sort of fire around the caravan. The IDF also suggested that Hamas had the road booby trapped.

Join me now. He's Mark Regeva, senior advisor to Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and former Israeli Ambassador to the United Kingdom. So I'll start right there, sir. Does Israel have any more clarity on what exactly happened with that convoy?

And how sure are you that it wasn't an Israeli airstrike that hit it? Well, there are investigations ongoing, but we don't target civilians. We asked them to relocate. It was actually Hamas that told them not to move south.

It was actually Hamas that put up roadblocks preventing people going south. Someone has to ask, in whose interest is this attack? Clearly, if Hamas wants to scare people from moving away, it's actually, I think we can learn from this, because Hamas claims to represent the Palestinians, and Israel is theoretically the enemies of the Palestinians. At least that's the narrative.

But Israel is telling people, please leave a combat zone, Vacate. Go to safer areas, save. Don't get caught up in the crossfire. And Hamas says, don't leave.

You're forbidden to leave. We will stop you leaving, and we will scare you from leaving because we want you to be martyrs for our crazy extremist cause. They claim to represent Palestinians, but they're very cheap with Palestinian blood. In the spirit of encouraging leaving, what can you tell us about this Rafah border crossing and the delays in getting it reopened?

Well, it was opened, obviously, partially today, but there are all sorts of issues that have to be done, and there we're dealing with them. Now, ultimately, we don't see the people of Gaza as the target of our attack. We're focusing on Hamas. And with your permission, please allow me to just make one point, because you were about to interview someone from Gaza, and I hope you manage that contact with me when you finish with me.

But since Hamas took power in Gaza 16 years ago, they have stamped out all independent civil society. There are no independent political parties. There is no free speech. There is no free newspapers.

When you interview people from Gaza, they cannot criticize Hamas. If they do, they face violent retribution. And so everyone I've seen who goes on the media is parroting in one way or another. The official line.

But it's like, from your perspective, it's like interviewing someone from North Korea or from the former Soviet Union. One has to understand. You'll interview doctors. Yes, and they can talk about their hardships, but they'll never say why the hardships are happening.

Who started this war? Are they angry that Hamas started this war? Of course they can't say that. If they say things like that, they'll get into trouble.

You get me to a point that I want to make here. The Israeli Defense Minister had talked about the idea that this could be a long war that could potentially end up occupying Gaza. The Israeli government has no interest in doing that. But talking about this idea, you just sort of mentioned it, that Hamas so controls the political and social infrastructure in Gaza, that if you take out Hamas, how is Gaza governed if not through occupation?

I mean, Americans have a very recent history with this, with, you know, in Iraq. How do you kind of manage the idea that they have so taken over civil society there in Gaza? And if you sort of decapitate Hamas, which is the goal, what then happens to all those people there and how are they led and how are they managed? So I've been in meetings where we discuss different constituencies.

We're obviously looking two steps ahead. Obviously the goal today is to take out Hamas, to destroy its military machine and to take apart its governmental structure. That's our goal. And we have been thinking about what happens the day after.

And the first thing you have to ask is what is worse than Hamas? I mean, Hamas has shown itself to be a terrible, terrible, horrific actor. The violence that we saw on October 7, as your president said, he's compared it both to ISIS and more recently to Nazis. And so getting rid of Hamas is imperative.

They can't come out of this with a military structure intact that allows them to attack us again. That's just a non startup. Once Hamas is gone. There are different ideas that are out there.

I'm not at liberty yet to discuss them. But I think you can be assured that Israel has thought this through and we believe there are contingencies that can allow for a better situation in the future. And if you don't mind me saying, not just a better situation for Israel, that we won't have to live with this terrorist kingdom, this terrorist base, huge massive ISIS type structure on our border killing our people. But it will also ultimately be better for the people of Gaza who won't have to live under this very authoritarian theocratic regime.

Well, like I said, if you take it for an American having The day two plan is important as the day one plan. But let's back up to the day one part of this. The idea of this massive build up on the border or imminent invasion. I know you're not going to talk about specifics of military planning, but what's going on in terms of the setup of the invasion?

Do you expect we're going to see Israeli boots on the ground in Gaza sooner than later? So I expect us to act sooner rather than later. But once again, you said it. I'm not going to go into operational details before they happen.

It's crucial that Hamas is hit and hit hard. And it's not just important for the people in southern Israel who've been living under the shadow of this terrible, terrible violence and the massacre that they've just gone through. But there are other bad actors in the region too. There's Hezbollah in Lebanon, there's Iran just over the horizon.

They have to see that Israel is not weak, that Israel is strong, that if you attack the Israelis, they will hit back and hit back hard. That's how you will survive in this tough neighborhood that is Israel. And I'd also like to offer maybe a political explanation. One of the reasons Hamas hit us was that they saw all this talk that the United States has been behind of an Israeli, Saudi peace breakthrough and that threatens Hamas.

That's an existential threat to Hamas because Israel, over the last few years, we've established and strengthened our relations with the Arab world. We've got peace with Egypt, with Jordan, with Morocco, with the uae, with Bahrain, and now there's talk of peace with Saudi Arabia. And though the whole civilized world embraces Middle east peace, Hamas says no, this is wrong. And there's no doubt that their desire to stifle the expansion of peace in the Middle east was behind that terrible massacre on October 7th.

All right, that's the record. We gotta leave it there. Thank you very much for coming on with us today. And as we reported earlier, Hamas now says it's holding between 200 and 250 hostages in Gaza and they would release non Israeli hostages if certain conditions were met.

Didn't say what those conditions would be. One of Richard Engel now who's been reporting from the region and have some more information on exactly how this is coming together. So, Richard, what can you tell us about this offer, such as it is from Hamas and how seriously perhaps the rest of the world should take it? Well, I think it's a very significant development and it could change things on the ground.

This was a Statement on camera by the spokesman of the military wing of Hamas. And he said that they are holding between 200, 250 or more hostages are being held in the Gaza Strip. What was interesting about it is that he didn't know. He said he didn't know the exact number of hostages that were taken.

He said that HAMAS is holding 200 and that among the 200 Hamas is holding, there are foreign nationals. And this is the most important part right now. He said that they are willing to release those foreign nationals. Those include Americans without conditions.

He said that they were taken by accident, that during the time of the assault, when they crossed the breached border fence and entered Israel, there, quote, wasn't time to confirm their entity identities, that they are being treated as guests and that they will be. They could be released and will be released when the field conditions are right. So this is a significant development. If you're in the U.S.

state Department, if you're part of the hostage rescue team, if you're one of the family members of these American hostages. And Hamas is now saying, we have these hostages. We have the foreigners. We know they're Americans among them, and we are willing to release them.

We're treating them as guests. We don't consider them party to this conflict. We're just waiting for the time to be right so that it is able to release them. I think that changes the story.

I think there's gonna be a lot of pressure on Israel and all the parties involved to find a way to get these hostages out of harm's way. They could be sick, they could be injured. They certainly need to be released, want to be released. They want to be back with their families.

Their families want them. They will also have valuable intelligence. So they could have intelligence about other hostages, where they were taken. So this would be something.

It could put a lot of pressure on Israel to perhaps take a pause in its bombing campaign to take up Hamas on this offer to see if it's legitimate. I also know that a lot of work has been going into this very issue. I've been speaking with negotiators throughout the day, and they've been talking about progress. They've been talking about their communications with Hamas.

So this also fits in line with reporting that I've been doing about negotiations directly with Hamas to try and free the hostages. So let me be the skeptic then here, Richard. I mean, how. How seriously will the Israelis take this?

I mean, you look at something like this, and I have to wonder, do you see, as an Israeli citizen, to get the Shelling to stop, to get the airstrikes to stop for long enough for, you know, talks to happen or for battlefield conditions to change in Hamas's favor in some way. I mean, I have to think the Israeli government, the idf, will look at this very skeptically, such as it's not their people being offered to be returned. I think it's okay. I think they're absolutely right to look at skeptically.

I think all of this should be looked at skeptically. It's coming from Hamas. But what do you have to lose if you create an opportunity where you can get these people out? Get them out.

There hasn't been as much shelling today, I think, in part because diplomatic negotiations are still underway about the hostages, about the safe passage for Palestinians inside Gaza, because there is this. This safe route that Israel has offered for Palestinians to move from the north to the south. So Hamas is saying it's willing to give up foreign hostages unconditionally when the field conditions are right. That is an opportunity that I'm quite sure that people in the State Department, hostage rescue teams, and others who have been working on this issue will want to certainly explore and not just dismiss out of hand because it's being said by Hamas.

So talk to me a little, Richard, about what this offer, if it's legitimate, would mean in terms of potential ground invasion if these hostages are released. How does that change the potential character of the conflict that I assume we will still see in earnest at some point, but, you know, perhaps delay it. Well, it might be. It might delay it, it might not.

I'm quite certain that the phones and the diplomatic channels are burning up right now. This is a recent development. There's been a lot of efforts to try and get Hamas to talk about the hostages. This is the most detail that Hamas has been talking about hostages since this entire conflict began, since Hamas crossed in Israel, carried out its attacks and captured people.

So going back, just to put a little context here, going back to that day, what happened when Hamas broke through the border, France, with about 30 different breach points, crossed into Israel when it. The kibbutz. Kibbutzes, the kibbutzim, as they're called here, and went to the music festival, started killing people and captured people. Other Palestinians also crossed into Israel at the time that the border fence was open.

So Hamas entered, but other Palestinians also followed them and came out of. Came into Israel. And some of those people also took prisoners. And that could help explain why Hamas doesn't exactly know the number Hamas said in this statement.

And again, this Also corresponds with what I'm hearing from international negotiators that Hamas says it has 200 people, but it says there are 200, 250 or more hostages being held inside the Gaza Strip, some being held by different groups. It says it has 200. It says it is willing to give up the foreigners unconditionally if, quote, the field conditions are right. If it means, if it's safe enough to do so.

I think it could have an impact on the ground division. I think those people will want to explore this. And in addition to being a terrorist organization, obviously Hamas is fairly sophisticated political organization. When I put my political hat on here for a minute, I have to give you Hamas and you can give back the American citizens or the French citizens or the, you know, country X, Y or Z citizens.

Perhaps you change the political calculus. German supporter. Exactly. You change the political support behind, you know, how those other countries might back up Israel or not in a cunning, bloody ground war 100%.

From Hamas's perspective, it says our fight is only with Israel. I'm not justifying Hamas is taking of any kind of hostages, let alone children, elderly, disabled and women. And there are many Israelis who fit into all those categories. But what they're trying to say is there are foreigners here, we took them, we didn't know who they were, and they're not party to this conflict.

So they are being treated as guests. Whether that is true and how they're being treated is also, well, it's possibility to learn if they lay it out. So I think this will certainly there will be diplomatic channels working this right now. Richard Anderson, middle of the night there.

I mean, how do you anticipate this story developing? What's next? Is the Israeli government going to respond to this or there's going to be some kind of show of good faith here from Hamas? Like what should people be looking out for to see whether or not this is a legitimate offer and where things go from here?

I don't think you're going to see very much, particularly here in the dead of night, looking at the conflict, watching it, I think there's going to be a lot of back channel negotiations. Negotiations are already taking place. Countries like Qatar are helping to, to be a bridge to Hamas and are using their relations and good offices to try and broker deals like this. Many people in the Arab world think that what Hamas did was atrocious, that they are embarrassing the Arab world, they're embarrassing the Palestinian cause.

They're embarrassing, they claim to be defending the Al Aqs, Hamas, a holy place in Islam and that they have embarrassed that by taking hostages, taking women, taking children, taking babies. And this could be an opportunity for some sort of a breakthrough. I don't mean it does not mean we have peace breaking out here, does not mean Israel is going to change its goal of going after and destroying Hamas. But if prisoners are being offered in exchange and being released unconditionally again, I think people will be very interested in exploring how real this is.

No, it's potentially a huge story. Richard, thank you for going out to bring us your expertise on it. And please stay safe there out there. Bigger angle force in Israel tonight.

Thank you. And we'll stay on top of this breaking news. But after the break, we'll hit some domestic politics as well inside the fight to fill the Republican Party's leadership void in the US House of Representatives. I'll talk to a key holdout inside the conference who today confirmed he is opposing Congressman Jim Jordan's bid for speaker ahead of the potential floor vote tomorrow.

Don't go anywhere. You're watching the press now. Welcome back. Congressional aides and administration officials tell NBC News that the Biden administration could formally request an emergency aid package for Israel and Ukraine as soon as this week.

But at the moment, Congress remains unable to pass anything at all with the House of Representatives still without a speaker. Now, House Republicans did make some progress today with Republican speaker designee Jim Jordan flipping a few key Republican holdouts. But it isn't clear if Jordan has won enough support from inside his own conference to win a floor vote which is currently scheduled for tomorrow afternoon ahead of that potential vote. Congressman Jordan sent a letter to his Republican colleagues today urging them to come together and to stop fighting with each other.

And joining me now is Florida Republican Congressman Carlos Jimenez. He is one of the Republicans who say they're not backing Jim Jordan for speaker when this comes to a vote tomorrow. So Congressman Jim Jordan is the pick of House Republicans. He got the vote in conference the other day and he won the support of some of the other key holdouts today.

Why are you not supporting him at this juncture? I'm in the same place where I've always been. I'm not backing Kevin McCarthy. Luck.

What happened to Kevin McCarthy was a travesty. We're in this mess because a very, very small minority of Republicans decided to light the fuse and the Democrats provided the gunpowder to remove Kevin. There's nothing that any of these candidates have said that would have been any different than what Kevin was proposing. And so it's all personalities and so I think it's a travesty, and I think it was a coup, and I'm not going to be participating in a coup.

And then lately, now I'm having real problems with Jim Jordan. Jim Jordan, his followers are putting all kinds of misinformation about me that I'm somehow going to vote for Jeffries for speaker, all kinds of stuff. And that's really kind of disappointing, but also concerning to me, if that's how, if he becomes speaker, that's the way that he's going to get his policies through. He'll, he will intimidate you or his followers will intimidate you into doing some things you may not want to do.

I, for one, am I going to fall for it? I'm a no. And I'm going to be going for Kevin McCarthy. Now, Kevin McCarthy said he's supporting Jim Jordan.

He's made it pretty clear he doesn't think he can get the speedership back. And what you're describing sounds like a Protestant vote. Is that what it is? Nope.

It's been there since, since Wednesday. I think we need to get to a point where the conference sees that the only alternative, we should just go back in time and reinstate Kevin because he's our best solution. It's very, you know, evident when we're in conference who the leader is. The true leader is, and that's Kevin McCarthy.

We should just put him back in his, in his post. And, you know, he's always said that he will follow the will of the conference. And so I take him to his word. That's why I stuck with him.

I'll stay with him. But now I'm A note to Jim Jordan. The tactics that his followers have used against fellow Republicans, I think is something that we shouldn't tolerate. Do you think those tactics have been out of bounds?

And do you worry what might happen if you do vote against Jordan Tomont Look, I've spoken to Jim Jordan. Whatever happens, happens. It's kind of. Tell me about that conversation.

The, you know, I said, look, you, you don't use these kind of tactics against your own members. And then you start to, you know, spread lies and misinformation. He denied that he's doing it. I'll take him at his word.

But those are his followers. He said he asked his followers not to do that anymore, yet they continue to do that. So here are, here are your followers not heeding your call, Mr. Speaker Designee.

And so at this point, you know, I just, I just can't I can't. I can't vote for Jim Jordan. I'll vote for Kevin McCarthy and then we'll see where the chips fall. I know, that's us.

Yeah, I know that the numbers are initially like 59 in favor. I think a lot of them have fallen off. I think some of them have succumbed. Pressure.

Maybe this, this pressure campaign is working on some. I'll tell you what, it'll never work on me. You take away all my committees, you can put me in the basement. I'm committed to my vote.

And no matter what you do, that's the way I'm gonna vote. Do you think there are enough people left in the conference who feel like you do to prevent Jim Jordan from winning the gavel tomorrow? I haven't finished idea. And so I know that there are some.

But again, you know, some of the folks that have said now that they're with Jim Jordan were pretty much against him. So he must be doing something right to get some of these folks to go his way. However, remember, this is a five vote majority, maybe even a four vote majority. And so it doesn't take much.

Unless of course, he gets Democrat out. If he gets Democrat help, then, you know, he can, he can. A lot more of us can say no. And if some Democrats walk, et cetera, for him, then maybe he could reach the gavel.

Or maybe he does. Maybe I'm standing here by myself. But you know what? I'm willing to stand by myself.

Congressman. It's pretty unlikely Jim Jordan will get Democrat help, but I'm glad you brought that up because the framing of one of the other holdouts who flipped their vote, and Wagner, who told us on Friday she was a hell no on Jim Jordan. But I say it today when she says there's too much at stake to hand over control of the House to radical liberal Democrats, which is why we must elect a conservative as the next speaker. Do you agree with that framing that essentially at this point it's Jim Jordan or handing the reins over to Democrats?

That's how I heard there's about 220 conservative Republicans here in the House. It's not. Jim Jordan doesn't have a stranglehold on the, that on that title. I'm a conservative Republican.

I'm not asking for the post. I'm one. And, and I know many, many others are conservative Republicans. So it's not Jim Jordan or Bus.

There's still a heck of a lot of good people here on this side that we have to take a look at. And I think we need to come to a consensus candidate. Now, it could be that Jim Jordan becomes Speaker of the House. I'll congratulate him and I'll, you know, I'll go on my way and then let's see what happens.

But at this point, you know, I. I don't think so. I think that we can find somebody else inside the conference. Our conference, not a Democrat, uh, that is, has true conservative principles that will guide the entire conference.

And not one wing or another wing, but the entire. Somebody can unify us all. And that's what I'm looking for. Congressman, we spent basically the entire rest of the show talking about world affairs, the war in Israel.

Do you worry that what's going on in the People's House right now, now is embarrassing the Republican Party on the world State for coming up on two weeks of no leadership in the U.S. house? Yeah, I think it is an embarrassment. And we can blame Matt Gates for that.

Matt Gates and some other people that followed Matt Gates into this path of chaos, which was totally unnecessary, I think, if you ask people. I mean, look, look, Kevin McCarthy had 210 votes. 210 Republicans voted with to keep Kevin McCarthy. Eight voted not to, plus 208 Democrats.

And like I said, you know, we may have, you know, started it with a spark, the eight Republicans, but it was the Democrats, 208 of them, that actually provided the gunpowder to put us in a situation that we are right now. And so, you know, there's plenty of blame to go around, but my target, my. The guy that really led this whole thing was Matt Gates. And, you know, thank you, Matt Gates, for putting us and this country in the situation.

All right, Congressman Carlos Menz, we have to leave it there. Thank you so much for your time. It's my pleasure. Then we have some breaking news out of Brussels, Belgium right now, where at least two people are dead after a shooting this evening.

So far, the gun that remains at large and the shooting is being investigated as an apparent terrorist attack. And we soon. As chief international correspondent Kier Simmons joins me now. And Kier, what are we not.

We have very little details at this point. And it is because I think the Brussels authorities are trying to establish themselves exactly what happened. There is reporting on social media that this shooter opened fire, chased two people into a building, opened fire on them. And there is reporting by the BBC that the shooter was speaking in Arabic.

So there are suggestions that this may be an apparent terror attack. And in fact, we are hearing from the French President, Emmanuel Macron, who is saying tonight that Brussels was hit by an Islamist terrorist attack. Again, the Belgian prime minister, who is of course prime minister of the country, hasn't gone that far at this point. The two people who have been shot dead are thought to be Swedish.

And the Belgian prime minister saying, I've just offered my sincere condolences to the Swedish prime minister. Following tonight's Harry attack on Swedish citizens in Brussels, our thoughts were the families and friends who lost loved ones as close partners. The fight against terrorism is a joint one. Now, there was a soccer match taking place there between Brussels and Sweden that has now been suspended, that has been called off as the authorities look for this shooter.

The terror alert level has been raised to the highest level. So I think there is a great degree of concern there right now. First of all, of course, to find who this person is, is there any information available at all about a suspect or sort of the state of the investigation? I imagine, especially with the soccer match and everything going on, this all feels a bit chaotic and preliminary.

But what else do you know about who authorities there in Brussels are you looking for? Well, exactly. The authorities aren't telling us who they're looking for. But again, on social media there are reports of what the person was wearing.

So it is possible that they know something about what the person looks like and clearly they are trying to find them. Brussels is a place where it has seen terror attacks before. People remember a terrible attack there back in 2016, which caused many, many fatalities. So Europe has been extremely concerned, very worried that something like this might happen in the wake of the Israeli terror attacks.

And it looks tonight as if that may be what is playing out there. But it is a. Yeah, absolutely. Kirsten, you'll stay on it.

And thank you for getting in front of the camera with this breaking news. We will, of course, continue to cover that breaking news as well as the news out of the Middle East. I'll be back here tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now. NBC News now coverage continues with Hallie Jackson.

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